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>>> MORE CALLS FOR JOBS OHIO OVERSIGHT.
CAPTIONS PROVIDED BY WOSU-TV, THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY
>>> FROM THE BATELLE STUDIO AT WOSU AT COSI, THIS IS "COLUMBUS
ON THE RECORD." JOINING MIKE THOMPSON THIS WEEK
-- KATHY KANSAS DISSKI, KAREN KASLER, MICHAEL MILLER, ATTORNEY
AND FORMER FRANKLIN COUNTY PROSECUTOR, AND SANDY TUSS,
DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST.
>> CALLS FOR MORE OVERSIGHT OF JOBS OHIO ARE GETTING LOUDER.
AS YOU KNOW, JOBS OHIO IS THE QUASI-PRIVATE STATE DEVELOPMENT
AGENCY.
ITS MONEY COMES FROM THE PRIVATIZATION OF THE STATE'S
LIQUOR PROFITS.
SUPPORTERS OF JOBS OHIO SAY IT'S A PRIVATE ENTITY, AND JOBS OHIO
AS A PRIVATE ENTITY DOES NOT HAVE TO DISCLOSE ALL THAT MUCH,
AND THAT MAKES IT EASIER TO DEBT DEALS WITH PRIVATE COMPANIES
LOOKING TO LOCATE IN OHIO.
BUT WORD THAT 2/3 OF THE JOBS OHIO BOARD HAVE DIRECT FINANCIAL
TIES TO COMPANIES GETTING STATE OF OHIO GRANTS HAS DEMOCRATS
CALLING FOR MORE OPENNESS.
>> FRANKLY IT SEEMS THAT AT EVERY TURN THEY'RE SAYING OF
COURSE WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING ON THE UP AND UP.
BUT BY THE WAY, WE DON'T REALLY WANT THE PUBLIC TO BE ABLE TO
LOOK IN AND SEE ANYTHING THAT WE'RE DOING.
AND SO -- EXCEPT WHAT WE SHARE WITH YOU.
AND SO I THINK IT ABSOLUTELY CAN BE DONE, BUT I ALSO THINK THE
GREATEST WAY TO ASSURE THAT THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE SOME
SORT OF CONFLICT THAT ENDS UP RESULTING IN A BAD OUTCOME FOR
THE PUBLIC IS TO DO IT IN A TRANSPARENT WAY.
>> GOVERNOR KASICH ACCUSES DEMOCRATS OF PLAYING POLITICS.
HE SAYS THERE IS NO NEED FOR MORE OVERSIGHT OF JOBS OHIO.
KAREN KASLER AND ED FITZGERALD, CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR, FILED AN
ETHICS COMPLAINT.
BUT THE ETHICS COMMISSION CAN'T DEAL WITH IT.
>> THE ETHICS COMMISSION SAID THAT THEY ARE NOT EMPOWERED TO
INVESTIGATE HERE.
AND HE'S NOT THE ONLY ONE.
JOHN CARNEY, WHO YOU SAW THERE, A LIKELY CANDIDATE FOR STATE
AND OF COURSE THE STATE AUDITOR, THE CURRENT STATE AUDITOR,
AUDITOR.
REPUBLICAN DAVID YOST, SAID HE WANTS TO INVESTIGATE JOBS OHIO.
STATE LAWMAKERS THEN CHANGED THE LAW SO THE STATE AUDITOR CANNOT
AUDIT JOBS OHIO.
NOW THE GOVERNOR HAS SAID, AND WE ASKED HIM ABOUT THIS ON
MONDAY WHEN HE WAS AT A JOBS OHIO EVENT, THAT JOBS OHIO IS
SUBJECT TO PUBLIC AUDITS BY AN AUDITOR WHO IS SELECTED BY JOBS
OHIO.
NOT BY THE STATE AUDITOR.
AND THAT JOBS OHIO, WHILE IT IS EXEMPT FROM STATE ETHICS LAWS,
IT IS SELF-POLICING.
TOM CHARLES, THE FORMER HEAD OF THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY,
IS GOING OVER THERE IN AN ADVISORY ROLE.
AND HE SAYS THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING.
THAT ALL THESE JOBS HAVE RESULTED IN OHIO, AND THAT THIS
IS WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE, AND THAT MORE STATES WILL ACTUALLY
LOOK TO WHAT OHIO IS DOING IN CREATING THIS NIMBLE AGENCY AND
THIS NIMBLEGEN AT THIS TIME THAT CAN GO AROUND AND DO THESE KINDS
OF THINGS.
>> IF THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING, HOW DO WE SEE THE
POUDRING?
>> THAT'S THE QUESTION, EXACTLY.
>> WE DON'T GET TO SEE THE PUDDING.
FOREVER, FOR AS LONG AS I REMEMBER, ONCE AN AUDIT WAS
DONE, ALL THE RECORDS COLLECTED DURING THE AUDIT ARE PUBLIC
RECORD.
YOU CANNOT ONLY LOOK AT THE FINDINGS OF THE AUDIT BUT SEE IF
THERE WAS ANYTHING IN THE RECORDS THAT THEY COLLECTED THAT
WE CAN'T EVEN DO THAT.
IF EVERYTHING'S SO HUNKY DORI, WHY DOESN'T HE WANT US TO PEEK
IN THE BOOKS?
>> WHAT I SAID ABOUT THE ANNUAL REPORT THAT COMES OUT IS THERE'S
NO BALANCE SHEET HERE.
THERE'S NO INS AND OUTS, NO MONEY SPENT.
HERE'S WHERE IT WENT.
THAT SEEMS TO BE MISSING.
THE ANNUAL REPORT IS A VERY -- A DOCUMENT WITH A LOT OF REALLY
NICE PICTURES AND THAT SORT OF THING.
BUT IT REALLY IS MISSING KEY ELEMENTS.
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, WHEN ONLY ONE SIDE OF THE EQUATION IS GOING TO
BE SHOWN, THEY'RE JUST GOING TO ALWAYS BE ON THE DEFENSIVE
WHETHER THERE'S VALID CONCERNS OR NOT.
THERE ARE ALWAYS GOING TO BE CONCERNS THAT SOMETHING'S GOING
NOW WITH NEW REVELATIONS THIS WEEK THAT 2/3 OF THE BOARD HAS
ON.
TIES TO COMPANIES THAT HAVE GOTTEN TAX BREAKS OR OTHER
BENEFITS OF THE STATE RAISES THE POTENTIAL FOR SOME CONFLICT OF
INTEREST, THEY'RE ALWAYS GOING TO BE ON THE DEFENSIVE UNDER THE
WAY THEY'VE GOT IT SET UP.
>> HOW DO REPUBLICANS DEFEND THIS?
THE ARGUMENT IS WE NEED TO BE NIMBLE.
WE NEED TO APPROACH A COMPANY IN A DIFFERENT STATE, SEE IF THEY
WANT TO COME HERE.
AND THAT COMPANY'S NOT GOING TO DEAL WITH US IF IT'S GOING TO BE
DISCLOSED THAT THEY'RE CONSIDERING MOVING HERE.
HOW DO REPUBLICANS DEFEND THAT?
>> I ASSUME SOME PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THE WAY HE HAS DEFENDED IT.
MANY PEOPLE AGREE INSTEAD HE PUTS FORTH, HE HAS TO BE TOTALLY
OPEN, LOOK AT EVERY NICKEL, DIME, DOLLAR.
HE DOESN'T FEEL THAT WAY.
FEELS HE COULD MOVE MUCH MORE QUICKLY IF THEY'RE NOT UNDER
RESTRAINTS OR CONSTRAINTS WITH THE STATE.
THE THING THAT KATHY POINTED OUT, FOR 2/3 OF THE PEOPLE,
THEY'RE SAYING ALMOST ALL OF THOSE IF NOT ALL WERE DONE
BEFORE JOBS OHIO EVEN EXISTED.
>> SHE IS RIGHT.
>> RIGHT.
WHEN WE HAVE SOMETHING LIKE THIS, YOU'RE CONSTANTLY ON THE
DEFENSIVE.
WHATEVER HAPPENS HAPPENS.
AND THE PEOPLE FILING IT MAY BE RUNNING FOR STATE AUDITOR, MAY
BE RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR.
IT JUST COMES WITH THE TERRITORY.
AND I SUSPECT IT'S GOING TO GO ON FOREVER.
>> FROM A BUSINESS STANDPOINT, ALL THIS CONTROVERSY, IS THAT
GOING TO MAKE BUSINESSES NOT WANT TO DO BUSINESS WITH JOBS
SNOW BECAUSE YOU KNOW, TWO YEARS DOWN THE ROAD, A STATE GRANT
THAT'S AWARDED TO A PRIVATE COMPANY, YOU KNOW, THERE MIGHT
BE QUESTIONS ABOUT IT -- MIGHT GET OVERTURNED IN A COURT
DECISION.
WILL IT BE BETTER TO SORT OF COME UP WITH SOME CONTROVERSY,
HAVE SOME OPENNESS, SETTING THIS DOWN?
>> IF THEY'RE GOING TO GET MONEY, THEY'RE GOING TO DO IT.
WE HAVE BEEN NIMBLE IN THE PAST.
THE LAST BIG REALLY HIGH-VOLUME JOB EFFORT THAT CAME TO OHIO I
THINK WAS HONDA WHEN JIM ROSE WAS GOVERNOR.
HE READ ABOUT IT IN THE NEWSPAPER, HE GOT ON AN AIRPLANE
WITH HIS DEPARTMENT OF DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR.
THE NEXT DAY THEY PLAYED GOLF WITH THE JAPANESE.
THAT'S HOW HONDA CAME TO OHIO.
THAT'S NIMBLE.
THAT'S CREATIVITY, AND THAT'S VISION AND PAYING ATTENTION TO
THE DETAILS.
WE HAVE A SUPREME COURT DECISION THAT MAY OR MAY NOT COME OUT.
>> RIGHT.
>> THAT'S BEEN SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN ARGUED BY PEOPLE ON THE
LEFT AND THE RIGHT WHO HAVE BEEN CONCERNED ABOUT THE TRANSPARENCY
OF JOBS OHIO.
MAYBE WE MIGHT GET AN ANSWER AT SOME POINT.
THAT'S STILL OUT THERE.
SO WHO KNOWS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THAT?
>> DON'T YOU THINK IF YOU'RE A BUSINESS OR ANYBODY THAT ACCEPTS
PUBLIC FUNDS, WELL -- QUASI-PUBLIC FUNDS THAT YOU
SHOULD -- YOU SHOULD JUST HAVE ASSUME THAT AT SOME POINT
SOMEBODY'S GOING TO KNOW ABOUT IT?
>> THEY CAN'T KEEP IT -- YOU CAN'T KEEP IT UNDER RAPS.
>> YES.
>> AND WE'VE ALREADY SEEN SOME CONCERNS THAT PEOPLE HAVE RAISED
ABOUT SOME COMPANIES MOVING FROM ONE COMMUNITY TO ANOTHER WITH
FOR EXAMPLE, TIMBER TECH HERE IN COLUMBUS, CLOSING ITS COLUMBUS
THE HELP OF TAX CREDITS.
FACTORY, MOVING JOBS TO WILMINGTON WITH THE HELP OF A
THERE'S BEEN CONTROVERSY AROUND THAT.
STATE TAX CREDIT.
I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT, WHEN YOU DO ACCEPT SOME MONEY, THERE
SEEMS TO BE A WAY TO FIND OUT ABOUT IT.
AND SOMEBODY'S GOING TO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT MAYBE.
>> THE ARGUMENT WAS THAT TIMBER TECH WOULD MOVE COMPLETELY OUT
OF STATE IF JOBS OHIO NOT GIVEN THE GRANT TO MOVE SOUTH TO
WASHINGTON WHICH ALSO NEEDS HELP.
ARE THERE ANY CHANCE THAT THE GOVERNOR CUT THE DEAL HERE TO
END THIS CONTROVERSY?
SAY, WE'RE -- WILL DEMOCRATS DEAL WITH THEM?
IS THIS TOO GOOD AN ISSUE TO HANG ON TO POLITICAL?
I THINK THERE'S A CHANCE HE MIGHT DO.
>> NO.
IT I DON'T THINK IT'S A GREAT CHANCE.
I THINK THE GOVERNOR IS -- IS SET IN HIS WAYS, AND I THINK HE
REALIZES WHATEVER HE DOES, WHATEVER IF IT GIVES HIM 10% HE
GIVES HIM 30%, IF HE GETS 30 HE SHOULD GET 60.
>> I DON'T KNOW HOW BIG A CAMPAIGN ISSUE THIS WILL BE FOR
DEMOCRATS.
I WONDER HOW MUCH PEOPLE CARE.
ON THE SURFACE IT SOUNDS LIKE A REALLY BIG ISSUE, BUT WHEN YOU
START DRILLING DOWN TO IT, I WONDER HOW MANY PEOPLE LOSE
INTEREST AND THINK IS THIS GOING TO AFFECT ME PERSONALLY, AND IF
IT DOESN'T, AM I GOING VOTE ON IT?
>> DO DEMOCRATS, ARE THEY IN A WEAKER POSITION BECAUSE, FAIR OR
UNFAIR, TED STRICKLAND WHEN HE WAS GOVERNOR OHIO LOST 380,000
JOBS.
AND THE GOVERNOR IS -- IS JOBS CHAMPION PUSHING JOBS.
ALL HE HAS TO SAY IS, LOOK, WE'RE -- WE'RE CREATING JOBS
WHILE TED STRICKLAND LOST 380,000 JOBS.
>> THE RECOVERY STARTED UNDER TED STRICKLAND.
THE PUBLIC IS JUST A LITTLE BEHIND ON THAT.
BUT I THINK IT IS A GOOD ISSUE FOR DEMOCRATS.
IT'S AN ISSUE ABOUT ETHICS.
AND HIS OPPONENT IS GOING TO BE ED FITZGERALD, WHO'S A FORMER
FBI AGENT WHO DID PUBLIC CORRUPTION PROSECUTIONS.
AND HE'S THE GUY WHO'S CLEANING UP CLEVELAND.
FOR AS LONG AS CONFLICT OF INTERESTS OF INTEREST CONTINUE
TO MATERIALIZE, IT PROVIDES A NICE CONTRAST BETWEEN THE EX-FBI
AGENT AND THE GOVERNOR WHO REALLY IS STUBBORN AND DOESN'T
CARE ABOUT THE ETHICAL RAMIFICATIONS OF THE DECISION.
>> THE NEXT TOPIC, THREE YEARS AFTER IT WAS SIGNED INTO LAW,
MORE THAN A YEAR AFTER THE SUPREME COURT UPTHELD, AND
NEARLY A YEAR AFTER THE DEFEAT OF THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE
WHO RAN AGAINST IT, YOU'D THINK THE CONTROVERSY OVER THE FEDERAL
HEALTH CARE LAW WOULD BEGIN TO SUBSIDE.
BUT YOU'D BE WRONG.
>> I TREATED SICK KIDS FOR 15 YEARS.
OBAMA CARE HAS ME WORRIED.
I'VE ALWAYS PUT MY PATIENTS FIRST, TAKING TIME TO LISTEN AND
GET TO KNOW THEM.
NOW I WONDER CAN I STILL WORK WITH PARENTS TO DECIDE WHAT'S
BEST FOR THEIR KIDS, OR WILL THE GOVERNMENT BE IN THE MIDDLE OF
THINGS.
WILL MY TIME BE SPENT NAVIGATING A COMPLICATED SYSTEM OR HELPING
PEOPLE GET WELL?
WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO MY PATIENTS IF I HAVE TO CLOSE MY PRACTICE?
I THINK THERE'S STILL A LOT OF QUESTIONS.
>> THAT'S AN AD RUNNING IN COLUMBUS.
THE U.S. HOUSE HAS NOW VOTED 40 TIMES IT REPEAL OBAMA CARE.
AND HERE IN OHIO, GOVERNOR KASICH CANNOT EXPAND MEDICAID
BECAUSE OF OPPOSITION TO OBAMA CARE.
CASSIE -- KATHY, WHEN IS THIS GOING TO END?
>> I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO END.
WE'LL DECIDE IN A MOTHER OR TWO WHETHER OHIO WILL EXPAND ITS
MEDICAID PROGRAM.
THAT ISSUE WILL COME UP BEFORE THE LEGISLATURE AGAIN THIS FALL.
AND IN -- IN THE BROADER PICTURE, YOU KNOW, THE SIGNS ARE
SO POLARIZED -- SIDES ARE SO POLARIZED ON THIS ISSUE.
NOW THAT IT'S CLOSE TO IMPLEMENTATION, WE'LL HAVE THE
ONLINE MARKETPLACES UP AND RUNNING LATER THIS FALL.
AND PEOPLE ARE GOING TO START SEEING WHAT THE PRICES ARE AND
BUT BEFORE THAT, EVERYBODY'S SPINNING THE NUMBERS.
SUCH.
THEY'RE USING THE NUMBERS TO SHOW IT'S REALLY, REALLY BAD, OR
SHOWING THAT IT'S REALLY, REALLY GOOD.
AND IN -- IT'S INTERESTING THAT IN STATES WHERE -- THAT TEND TO
HAVE GOVERNORS AND LEGISLATORS THAT SUPPORT THE HEALTH CARE
LAW, THE COSTS ARE REALLY LOWER.
BUT IN OTHER STATES, THE COSTS ARE REALLY HIGHER WHERE THE
GOVERNOR OR THE LEGISLATURE, ELECTED OFFICIALS.
OHIO, FOR INSTANCE, CAME OUT LAST WEEK, THE LIEUTENANT
GOVERNOR, MARY TAYLOR, WHO'S BEEN VERY OUTSPOKEN ABOUT HER
OPPOSITION TO THE LAW.
SHE SAID THAT THE AVERAGE COST OF POLICIES ON THE EXCHANGE IS
GOING TO BE 41% HIGHER THAN WHAT YOU COMK BUY NOW.
THAT'S REALLY -- WHAT YOU CAN BUY NOW.
THAT'S REALLY SCARY.
>> THE SUBSIDIES THAT PEOPLE GET, 90% OF AMERICANS, THEY --
THE CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET OFFICE SAYS --
>> WOULD QUALIFY FOR --
>> SHE DID NOT.
SHE TOLD ME WHEN I ASKED THAT SHE COULDN'T.
>> SHE DIDN'T.
>> THEY COULDN'T.
GENERALLY SPEAKING, THOUGH, IF YOU'RE YOUNG AND HEALTHY, YOU'RE
GOING TO PAY MORE FOR HEALTH INSURANCE.
IF YOU'RE OLDER OR SICKER OR POORER, YOU'RE PROBABLY GOING TO
PAY LESS.
FOR SUBSIDIES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
>> MIKE MILLER, CAN YOU RECALL A LAW THAT HAS PASSED THAT HAS
BEEN THROUGH THE COURTS AND UPHELD BY VOTERS MORE OR LESS
THAT THE FIGHT CONTINUES, IN YOUR EXPERIENCE?
WHY DOES ANYONE CONTINUE TO HANG ON TO THAT?
>> MIKE, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S A CONCEPT OF HOW I THINK
GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE RUN.
I SUPPOSE YOU ALWAYS TALK ABOUT IN THE PAST CONTROVERSIAL --
WE'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN THE ARGUMENTS FOR AND AGAINST THE
DEATH PENALTY FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER, THAT'S BEEN ON THE
BOOKS, OFF THE BOOKS, ON THIS DESK, THAT STATE CHANGES.
>> ROE V. WADE.
>> I THINK CATHY IS RIGHT WHEN SHE SAYS THAT THIS IS SOMETHING
THAT IS GOING TO GO ON FOREVER.
AND I LOOK AT MYSELF, MY AGE, DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT.
I'VE GOT INSURANCE ANYWAY.
WHEN I LOOK AND TRY AND FIGURE -- IS THIS GOOD, OR DOES THIS
MATTER -- I DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA.
ALL I KNOW, EVERY DEMOCRAT WITHOUT EXCEPTION, THE GREATEST
THING IN THE WORLD.
EVERY REPUBLICAN WITHOUT EXCEPTION, IT'S THE WORST THING
IN THE WORLD.
I FIND THAT HARD TO BELIEVE.
YOU KNOW, BUT THAT SEEMED TO BE WHAT COMES OUT THERE.
SO I -- I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT'S GOOD BAD.
>> THE REPUBLICANS AND OTHERS THAT OPPOSE THE LAW HAVE REAL
QUESTIONS ABOUT THE COSTS.
THAT IS A VALID ISSUE.
I MEAN, THE COST OF EXPANDING MEDICAID TO THE EXTENT THEY WANT
TO DO, THERE'S REAL COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT WHETHER
IT'S ON THE BACKS OF STATE TAXPAYERS OR FEDERAL TAXPAYERS,
WHOEVER.
THAT'S A VALID CONCERN.
ON THE FLIP SIDE FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN
SHUT OUT OF EXPERIENCE ARE MAYBE GOING TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO
BUY SOME AND GET HEALTH CARE FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THEIR LIFE.
SO THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT YOU CAN SPIN IN SO MANY DIRECTIONS.
CERTAINLY PEOPLE LIKE THAT.
TAKE YOUR PICK.
IF YOU WANT TO BE FOR IT, I'LL GIVE YOU ARGUMENTS.
>> A LOOK AT CLEAR POLITICS AVERAGE -- THE WEB SITE THAT
AVERAGES ALL OF THE POLLS NATIONALLY.
IT SAID THAT 51% OF AMERICANS OPPOSE THE HEALTH CARE LAW.
WHY IS THAT, SANDY?
>> I THINK THAT'S THE REASON WHY CONGRESS HAS VOTED AGAINST IT
FOR 42 TIMES.
I THINK IT'S A COST ISSUE.
IF YOU ARE A WOMAN OR YOU ARE A WOMAN WITH CHILDREN, YOU BENEFIT
FROM IT.
YOU CAN GET BIRTH CONTROL FOR NOTHING.
IF YOU HAVE A PRE-EXISTING CONDITION OR SOME CATASTROPHIC
ILLNESS, YOU CAN GET COVERAGE FOR THE FIRST TIME.
I THINK PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT IT FROM A VERY SELFISH POINT OF
IF IT'S GOOD FOR ME, I'M FOR IT.
VIEW.
IF IT'S NOT, I'M AGAIN IT.
>> THERE ARE FOLKS WHO SAY, WHEN YOU SAY "FOR NOTHING," THEY SAY,
NO, NO, NO ADDITIONAL COST TO YOU.
AND THAT THAT SPEAKS TO THE WHOLE CONCERN ABOUT HOW MUCH
IT'S GOING TO COST INDIVIDUALS AS WELL AS THE PEOPLE AS A
WHOLE.
>> WHEN WE LOOK AT 51% OPPOSE IT, 40% SUPPORT IT, PRESIDENT
OBAMA HAS GOTTEN FLACK SINCE THIS WAS PASSED, BEFORE IT WAS
PASSED THAT HE HASN'T SOLD IT.
IS HE STILL NOT SELLING IT?
>> I DON'T THINK HE SOLD IT AS WELL AS HE COULD HAVE SOLD IT.
AND PART OF THE PROBLEM WAS IT WAS COMING TO FRUITION IN THE
MIDDLE OF AN ELECTION YEAR.
AND THIS BECAME A BIG CAMPAIGN ISSUE.
AND IF CONGRESS REALLY DOESN'T WANT TO FIX IT, THEN WE SHOULD
TAKE CARE OF PUBLICLY SUBSIDIZED HEALTH CARE BACK, AND THEY'RE
NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE IT UNTIL THEY FIX THE PROBLEMS THEY'VE
IDENTIFIED.
>> IDEALLY, ONCE IT'S IMPLEMENTED, ONCE -- ESPECIALLY
THIS YEAR WITH THE MANDATE AND EXCHANGES AND SUCH, THEY'LL SEE
WHERE THE CRACKS ARE.
AND THEY'LL WORK TO MAKE IT BETTER.
I MEAN, THAT HAPPENS WITH LAWS ALL THE TIME.
WE HAVE TO GET BEYOND THE PARTISAN RHETORIC ON THE ISSUE
TO GET TO THAT POINT.
I DON'T THINK WE KNOW.
>> ALL RIGHT.
>> GOOD LUCK ON GETTING THERE.
>> ALL RIGHT.
>>> OHIO PRISON OFFICIALS ARE REVIEWING POLICIES AND
PROCEDURES AFTER A MAN SET TO BE EXECUTED COMMITTED SUICIDE JUST
THREE DAYS BEFORE HE WAS SET TO RECEIVE A LETHAL INJECTION.
HE WAS CONVICTED OF FATALING STAB -- FATALLY STABBING HIS
NEIGHBORHOOD IN CLEVELAND.
THE COUNTY PROSECUTOR WANTED TO SPARE HIS LIFE IN FAVOR OF A
LIFE SENTENCE.
IT TURNS OUT THAT SCHLEGEL'S ATTORNEYS WEREN'T APPEALING A
LAST-MINUTE APPEAL BUT HE DIDN'T KNOW BEFORE HE KILLED HIMSELF.
MICHAEL MILLER, WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THIS CASE?
>> A VERY UNIQUE CASE.
I'VE KNOWN THE PROSECUTOR IN CUYAHOGA COUNTY FOR QUITE A
WHILE, NOT WELL, BUT QUITE A WHILE BEFORE HE WAS A JUDGE, AND
NOW HE'S A PROSECUTOR.
I LIKE HIM A GREAT DEAL.
HE'S A GOOD GUY EVEN IF HE IS A DEMOCRAT.
HE'S A WONDERFUL PERSON, AND HE LOOKS THROUGH THIS THING -- HE
RECOMMENDED A COMPUTATION A WHILE -- A COMMUTATION ON
SOMEBODY A WHILE BACK THAT GOT IT.
HIS THEORY IS IF THEY WERE TRIED NOW THE JURY WOULD HAVE OTHER
OPTIONS.
IN THIS CASE, HE SAID THEY FOUND EVIDENCE THAT THE PREVIOUS
ATTORNEY, PROSECUTING ATTORNEY, JOHN CORRIGAN, YEARS AGO
ALLEGEDLY OFFERED THE DEFENDANT A LIFE SENTENCE.
AND ACCORDING TO WHAT I READ, THE ATTORNEYS BACK THEN NEVER
GAVE HIM THAT OPTION.
IF THAT'S TRUE, THAT'S OBVIOUSLY WHAT THE COURTS WOULD SAY
CLEARLY, THAT'S A SERIOUS PROBLEM.
IT'S TRAGIC THAT IT HAPPENED.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THE PRISON SYSTEM WORKS.
I GUESS THIS WAS HOURS BEFORE THEY WERE STARTING, THREE DAYS,
YOU SAY, ROUND-THE-CLOCK THING.
BUT IT HAPPENED.
AND I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY'LL STOP IT.
I'VE SEEN SUICIDES IN THE PRISON THIS YEAR.
IT WAS A TRAGIC SITUATION.
>> YOU SEE THE DEATH PENALTY APPEALS GO RIGHT UP TO THE LAST
MINUTE, LITERALLY THE LAST MINUTE.
THERE WAS A CASE, I DON'T KNOW, TEN YEARS AGO, WHERE I THINK A
DEATH ROW INMATE WAS SPARED LIKE TWICE WITHIN AN HOUR OF HIS
EXECUTION TIME.
IS THERE A BETTER WAY TO HANDLE APPEALS?
>> NO BECAUSE THERE IS NO FINALITY IN THE DEATH CASE.
YOU CAN HAVE A SPRINGBOARD RULE TODAY AND FILE SOMETHING AGAIN
TOMORROW.
IN ESSENCE, THAT'S WHERE IT GOES.
IT GOES ON AND ON BECAUSE YOU HAVE THIS NEVER-ENDING BATTLE
DEVELOP PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN THE PENALTY AND DON'T BELIEVE IN
THE PENALTY.
YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET THE DECISION, I DON'T THINK, MIKE,
WITH THE SUPREME COURT SAYING YOU'RE OUT, YOU LOSE, AND THE
GUY'S GOING TO BE EXECUTED OCTOBER 1st AND HAVE NOTHING IN
BETWEEN.
THEY'LL START OVER AND TRY AND DO SOMETHING -- ANYTHING TO STOP
THE PROCESS.
THAT'S THEIR JOB.
THEY'RE DOING THEIR JOB, REPRESENTING THEIR CLIENT.
>> WHAT'S BEEN INTERESTING LATE SHE SOME OF THE STRONGEST VOICES
AGAINST THE DEATH PENALTY WERE REPUBLICANS WHO SUPPORTED IT.
PAUL PEIFER CHAIRED THE SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE WHEN WE
REINSTATED IT.
JIM PETRO IS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.
THEY OVERSEE THE DEATH CASES.
NOW THESE PROMINENT REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING THAT WAS A MISTAKE
AND THEY DON'T LIKE THE WAY IT'S SELECTIVELY ENFORCED.
I GUESS WE'LL HAVE THAT CONVERSATION FOR A LONG TIME, AS
WELL.
>> BUT THE ARGUMENT WAS WITH THE CASE IN CLEVELAND, MR. CASTRO,
THAT IF IT WASN'T FOR THE DEATH PENALTY BEING ON THE TABLE, HE
WOULDN'T HAVE PLED GUILTY AND WOULD HAVE HAD A LONG, DRAWN-OUT
TRIAL, TOUGH ON THE VICTIMS.
IS THAT ENOUGH OF A REASON TO KEEP IT?
>> ARE JURIES GIVING THE DEATH PENALTY AS MUCH AS THEY USED TO?
I DON'T THINK SO.
ARE THEY, IN OHIO?
>> I DON'T THINK SO EITHER.
IT'S BEEN LIMITED IN THE SCOPE OF THE APPLICATION OF IT.
WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO SEE YOUR DEATH PENALTY IS THIS BEING AN
EXCEPTION, I THINK, FOR THE MOST PART ARE THE FELONY ***
CASES.
SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW, AN 18-YEAR-OLD OR 20-YEAR-OLD CLERK
IN A STORE, SOMEBODY COMES IN, PUTS HIM ON THE FLOOR AND SHOOTS
HIM.
AND THEN ROBS THE PLACE.
THAT TYPE OF THING.
THE ROBBERIES, THE *** WITH INTENTIONAL MURDERS, THAT'S
WHERE YOU GET THE DEATH PENALTIES FOR THE MOST PART.
>> NOT CRIMES OF PASSION OR --
>> NOT CRIMES OF PASSION.
MOST AREN'T EVEN ELIGIBLE TO BE CHARGED WITH THE DEATH SENTENCE.
>> SUPPOSED TO BE FOR THE WORST OF THE WORST.
IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR THE VERY SERIOUS, VERY TERRIBLE
PEOPLE THAT YOU DON'T WANT -- YOU WANT TO NOT ONLY PUNISH,
BOUGH WANT THE CHANCE THAT THEY COULD BE RERELEASED.
IF YOU PUT NAMES IN A PILE, THIS GUY DID THIS, THIS GUY -- WE ALL
>> RIGHT.
PICK THE WORST OF THE WORST, WE'RE NOT GOING TO AGREE.
>> THE JURY'S GOING TO AGREE.
>>> THE NEXT TOPIC -- A FEDERAL JUDGE ARGUED THAT OHIO'S VOTER
I.D. LAW AND I.D. RULES WILL REMAIN IN PLACE FOR A COUPLE OF
YEARS.
VOTERS WILL USE THE SAME FORMS OF I.D. THEY'VE USED THE PAST
FEW ELECTIONS AND CAN USE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS TO VOTE
PROVISIONALLY.
IT MAKES SURE THE RULES TREAT EVERY VOTER THE SAME.
WE'RE DONE.
NO MORE CONTROVERSY.
NO MORE LAWSUITS.
NO MORE NEWS CONFERENCES THE NEXT THREE YEARS ABOUT VOTING IN
OHIO, RIGHT?
>> WRONG, MIKE.
>> OH!
>> ACTUALLY, THERE WAS A BILL THAT WAS INTRODUCED THAT WOULD
ALLOW PEOPLE TO REGISTER TO VOTE ON LINE.
THAT'S BEEN TALKED ABOUT FOR DECADES, AS WELL.
SOME OF THE CONCERNS I HEARD FROM PEOPLE IS IF YOU -- MOST OF
THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE A COMPUTER ARE PEOPLE WHO DON'T
HAVE A LOT OF MONEY.
THOSE PEOPLE WOULD BE HURT BECAUSE THEYTENED -- THEY TEND
TO VOTE DEMOCRAT.
ONE OF THE GROUPS THAT HAS ACCESS TO COMPUTERS AT A HIGH
RATE IS YOUNG VOTERS.
THEY DON'T VOTE HARDLY AT ALL.
SO I THINK WE'RE GOING TO KEEP HAVING THIS CONVERSATION.
WE'RE GOING TO STILL TRY AS A STATE TO MAKE VOTING EASIER FOR
LOTS OF PEOPLE.
I THINK THAT'S A GOOD THING.
>> SOME WHO DON'T HAVE INTERNET ACCESS TEND TO VOTE REPUBLICAN.
THAT MIGHT WASH OUT THAT ARGUMENT.
>> RIGHT.
THERE'S ALSO A BILL THAT I DON'T THINK IT'S BEEN INTRODUCED,
THEY'RE LOOKING FOR CO-SPONSORS THAT WOULD SHRINK DRAMATICALLY
THE EARLY VOTING DAYS.
THAT WILL BE THE NEXT FIGHT.
>> AND THERE'S ALSO A BILL THAT WOULD ELIMINATE SPECIAL
ELECTIONS IN FEBRUARY AND AUGUST WHICH IS AN INTERESTING THING,
THAT'S WHEN A LOT OF SCHOOL LEVIES COME UP.
AS WELL.
THERE'S A LOT OF DEBATE COMING UP AS WE HEAD TOWARD THE
ELECTIONS.
BUT THAT -- THE DEBATED OVER THIS RULING ON THE 2016
ELECTIONS AND COULD PEOPLE STILL USE THEIR SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER
AT LEAST THE LAST FOUR DIGITS IS, YOU KNOW, THE QUESTION OF
WHETHER THAT'S SETTLED OR NOT.
IT IS SETTLED FOR NOW.
BUT THERE'S ALWAYS A POSSIBILITY ANOTHER LAWSUIT COULD BE FILED.
THE STATE LEGISLATURE COULD CHANGE THE LAW.
SO NOTHING -- NOTHING IS SETTLED UNTIL IT'S SETTLED.
IT'S PROBABLY NOT GOING TO BE SETTLED.
>> NO REAL PROBLEMS THE LAST TWO ELECTION CYCLES.
>> RIGHT.
NO CASES OF FRAUD.
THERE WERE SOME ACCUSATIONS THAT THERE WAS DISENFRANCHISEMENT
BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF WEEKEND VOTING AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
MAYBE KEEP TO 2012?
>> NO.
>> NO?
>> AS LONG AS ONE SIDE FIGURES THEY CAN GET AN EDGE, NO.
>> I THINK THERE HAVE BEEN CALLS FOR CHANGING CERTAIN THINGS AND
TINKERING WITH THE SYSTEM IN SOME WAY.
THIS IDEA, LIKE SANDY SAID, OF ONLINE VOTING HAS BEEN TALKED
ABOUT, ONLINE REGISTRATION HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT FOR A WHILE.
I THINK THERE'S BEEN PLANS TO DO THINGS.
I DON'T SEE THE STATUS QUO STAYING THE SAME UNTIL THE NEXT
PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.
THAT JUST SEEMS UNLIKELY.
>> OKAY.
>>> SPEAKING OF 2016, WE KNOW IT IS REALLY EARLY -- IT'S FUN TO
ALL RIGHT.
SPECULATE WHO WILL RAIN FOR THE WHITE HOUSE IN 2016.
FRANKLY, THERE'S NOT MUCH ELSE TO TALK ABOUT IN AUGUST.
OF COURSE, WE CARE MOST ABOUT THE OHIOANS WHO MIGHT RUN.
ROB PORTMAN AND JOHN KASICH GETTING PRESS INSIDE THE
BELTWAY.
THE "WASHINGTON POST" HAS A PRESEASON POLL AND HAS AS ITS
FRONT-RUNNER MARCO RUBIO.
AND THEN CHRIS CHRISTIE, THE NEW HAMPSHIRE GOLF.
RAND PAUL FROM KENTUCKY IS THIRD.
SCOTT WALKER IS FOURTH FOLLOWED BY JEB BUSH, THE FORMER FLORIDA
GOVERNOR.
THEN COMING IN SIXTH PLACE, ACCORDING TO THE "WASHINGTON
POST," IS OUR JOHN KASICH, GOVERNOR OF OHIO, FOLLOWED BY
PAUL RYAN, BOBBY JINDAL, AND RICK SANTORUM ROUNDING OUT THE
TOP TEN.
JOHN KASICH IS RIGHT IN THE MIX ACCORDING TO THE "WASHINGTON
POST." ROB PORTMAN'S ON THE LIST.
IF YOU WERE BAITING MAN, WHICH OHIO AN HAS THE BEST CHANCE AT
>> IT DEPENDS ON WHAT HAPPENS IN THE ELECTION FOR GOVERNOR.
WINNING THE NOMINATION?
>> GO THERE FIRST --
>> IF GOVERNOR KASICH WINS, HE WOULD HAVE THE BEST CHANCE.
AND OHIO OBVIOUSLY, AS WE ALL KNOW, THE KEY STATE.
IF YOU HAVE A GOVERNOR THAT'S WON TWICE INSTEAD, CAN'T RUN
THROUGH TO HIM ANYWAY.
WOULD HE BE A CANDIDATE?
I THINK HE WOULD BE.
WHETHER IT'S ENOUGH TO GET IT IS A HORSE OF ANOTHER COLOR.
STLEERS A LONG TIME.
BUT I WOULD THINK THAT HE WOULD BE A PLAYER.
>> HE'S RUN BEFORE.
>> HE HAS.
NO ONE KNEW WHO HE WAS OUTSIDE THE BELTWAY.
>> HE'S TALKED ABOUT RUNNING AGAIN.
THERE ARE STORIES IN THE "DISPATCH" ABOUT IT.
I THINK MIKE IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
PORTMAN CAME OUT IN FAVOR OF SAME-SEX MARRIAGE IN ORDER TO
WIN A REPUBLICAN PRIMARY.
YOU NEED TO BE PRETTY FAR TO THE RIGHT.
AND ROB PORTMAN IS JUST IRRITATED, THE RIGHT FLANKT
PARTY.
KASICH IS NOT TAKING A POSITION ON THIS.
SO I THINK KASICH WOULD HAVE A BETTER SHOT AT IT.
AS A DEMOCRAT, I HOPE HE RUNS AND PICKSE BACHMANN AS
HIS RUNNING MATE.
>> MIGHT ATTITUDES CHANGE IN THREE YEARS?
MIKE, YOU SAID IT'S A LIFETIME.
MIGHT ATTITUDES CHANGE ON GAY MARRIAGE IN THREE YEARS?
>> OH, SURE.
LOOK AT HOW MUCH HAS CHANGED IN THE LAST YEAR, TWO YEARS.
JUST ABSOLUTELY DRAMATICALLY.
I DON'T CARE WHAT THE NUMBERS ARE --
IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY VOTER SPHERE?
>> I DON'T KNOW.
I SUPPOSE IT COULD CHANGE SOME.
I DON'T THINK IT WILL CHANGE A GREAT DEAL.
PEOPLE WHO ARE OPPOSED PROBABLY ARE NOT GOING MOVE MUCH.
>> I THINK MORE LIKELY, WE MAY BE SEEING ONE OF OUR OHIO
OFFICIALS AS A V.P. LIKE WE SAW PORTMAN ON THE SHORT LIST THIS
YOU MIGHT SEE KASICH, MAYBE PORTMAN AGAIN --
LAST ELECTION.
>> WHAT IF HE SAYS, YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT TO BE V.P.?
JUST GET TO THE END, WHAT'S LEFT AT THE ALTAR?
>> KASICH'S BEEN CAGEY WHETHER ASKED.
HE'S BEEN ASKED OVER AND OVER AND OVER IF HE'S CONSIDERING IT,
IF HE WANTS IT, IF HE IS THINKING ABOUT IT.
YOU KNOW, EVERY WAY THAT A QUESTION CAN BE PHRASED IT'S
BEEN PHRASED.
HE'S BEEN CAGEY ABOUT -- I DON'T THINK HE'S EVER SAID OUTRIGHT
NO, BUT HE'S HAD -- LEANED THAT DIRECTION.
>> THAT WOULD HURT HIS ELECTION BID IF HE WOULD HAVE SAID --
>> BUT AS OHIO'S ECONOMY, IF OHIO KEEPS GOING THE DIRECTION
WE'RE GOING, THINGS IMPROVE, HE'LL HAVE A GOOD STORY TO TELL.
>> YEAH.
>>> LET'S GET TO OUR OFF THE RECORD "PARTING SHOTS."
ALL RIGHT.
>> I THINK WE'LL SEE MORE ENDORSEMENTS FOR THE MARRIAGE
EQUALITY BALLOT IN OHIO.
I THINK SOME OF THE ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE GOING TO
GET BEHIND IT WILL SURPRISE PEOPLE.
>> OKAY.
MIKE MILLER?
>> JUST ON A MORE SERIOUS NOTE FROM ME ANYWAY, WE LOST A
WONDERFUL JUDGE YESTERDAY IN PEGGY BRYANT WHO'D BEEN ON THE
-- APPEALS FOR MANY YEARS.
SHE WAS A WONDERFUL JUDGE AND WONDERFUL LADY.
WE WILL CERTAINLY MISS HER.
>> MEDICAID EXPANSION IS STILL OUT THERE AS KATHY SAID EARLIER
TODAY.
THERE ARE HEARINGS THAT ARE GOING TO BE SCATTERING NEXT
WEEK.
AND I TALKED TO GOVERNOR KASICH ABOUT THAT.
AND WE ASKED IF MAYBE THERE'S AN EXECUTIVE ORDER POWER IN HIS --
IN HIS ARSENAL STOW SPEAK.
HE SAID, WELL, YOU'LL HAVE TO TALK TO MY LEGAL TEAM ABOUT
I SAID, ARE YOU TALKING TO YOUR LEGAL TEAM ABOUT THAT.
THAT.
HE SAID, MAYBE.
SO I THINK THERE MAY BE SOMETHING COMING UP.
>> KATHY?
>> I THINK THAT IF WE DON'T SEE THE LEGISLATURE ACT ON A
MEDICAID EXPANSION BY, SAY, THE END OF SEPTEMBER, THAT THE
GOVERNOR WILL MOVE ON HIS OWN.
AND HE CAN DO THAT.
I THINK EXECUTIVE ORDER'S AN OPTION.
I THINK JUST FILING AN AMENDED STATE PLAN OR A WAIVER WITH THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WOULD ALSO GET US THERE.
AND I THINK HE PROBABLY WILL DO THAT.
>> OKAY.
>> IF HE HAS TO.
>> CONGRATULATIONS TO "TELLS ON THE RECORD" PANELEST JEANETTA
KING AND HER HUSBAND, JOHN.
THEIR BABY BOY SILAS WAS BORN LATE LAST MONTH.
CONGRATULATIONS TO EVERYONE IN THAT FAMILY.
HE'S ALREADY ROOTING FOR THE BOBCATS OF OHIO UNIVERSITY.
>>> THAT IS "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.
CHECK US OUT ON LINE.
WE'RE ON FACEBOOK, WE'RE ON TWITTER.
CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION THERE.
AND ON OUR WEB SITE, WOSU.ORG/COTR.
FOR OUR CREW AND FOR OUR PANEL, I'M MIKE THOMPSON.
HAVE A GOOD WEEK.