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Now when you arrived at La Scala, things were different to when you were in Aix :
you were part of a festival, a place where you could create, you were very creative; when you were at Le Chatelet,
you had that freedom.
But when you arrived at La Scala in Milan, you were in a repertory theatre that has an image, a past.
Furthermore you arrived unable to speak Italian, but in seven or eight months that was taken care of.
So, what was your main issue? What did you tell yourself?
What do I need to do here for the Milanese and international audiences who come to La Scala?
To be perfectly frank, I think that when you direct an operahouse, there are two possible approaches,
which are completely contradictory with one another.
That is, you have a definite idea of how you do the repertoire.
And whether you’re appointed to Le Chatelet, or you’re appointed to Aix-en-Provence, to La Scala or the Paris Opera,
you absolutely apply your own musical and interpretive viewpoint on the one hand and theatrical on the other.
For example, how do I do the three Da Ponte : do I look for a director who takes this approach, that attitude, this image?
Is it fair to say that’s Gérard Mortier’s method ?
No, I’m not saying that.
So you think about it : by accepting positions in different countries, in different cities, in different cultures,
you’re agreeing to think and work in the way those theatres expect you to.
And so the programming at Le Chatelet, the programming at Aix, the programming at La Scala
– and then I realise -- the programming at the Paris Opera – I realise that my approach is completely different.
So I work primarily within the culture and the place where I am.
And I try to understand, based on more than 200 years of history for La Scala (plus no foreigner has ever preceded me),
what that meant for this theatre and this city, to have someone come from outside and do the programming and decide on which shows to do, all the concerts to do.
And so I've worked based on the history of this country and its nuances, although I am criticised and will always be criticised for not being Italian,
but I’ve worked on that basis, and I thought about a programme that is once again linked to this house's past.
I think it’s really two methods that are the opposites of one another, and moreover, I don't think that one is better than the other.
It’s a different attitude, perhaps a more consensual one, one that is a little weaker and demagogic,
but you could say the other one is very peremptory, that it is very aggressive and, basically,
you put your own taste ahead of the taste of that country’s culture. It’s the opposite.
Specifically, this year at La Scala, you were faced, like all theatre directors, with the bicentenaries of both Verdi and Wagner.
You opened your season (it was a controversial debut even before the show) with Wagner,
with a Lohengrin directed by Claus Guth and conducted by Daniel Barenboim, with his ladies’ favourite, Jonas Kaufmann in the role of Lohengrin.
First of all, was it provocative to open the Verdi / Wagner season at La Scala in Milan with Wagner?
Frankly, I found the controversy pathetic and ridiculous.
The President of Italy in person had to issue a statement saying it was pathetic and ridiculous.
Furthermore, I think that’s fine, because imagine the president of France – I’m not certain he’d be interested in a controversy over Verdi and Wagner.
That just shows we’re in Italy and not in France.
First understand that the bicentenary year is 2013, and we’re talking about December 7, 2013,
and December 7 is the season opening and in many ways it’s practically the only performance that counts at La Scala for the year,
and after December 7, 2012, there is a December 7, 2013.
I decided to do one opera with Wagner, and one opera with Verdi.
In fact, I absolutely did not decide to open with Wagner or with Verdi ; I simply started off like any theatre director with the casting.
When Mr Kaufmann and Ms Harteros, Mr René Pape are available to do a Lohengrin,
you don’t ask yourself whether to do Verdi or Wagner first,
and then when, on the next December 7, you’ve decided to do a new Travaiata at La Scala with Ms Damrau,
you don’t ask yourself whether it’s before or after. You try to bring together the best conductor, the best singers, etc.
So this whole controversy shows just how people talk without saying anything.
Fine. Let’s continue, so we can say things.
Because now I’d like you to explain to us how you conceived this homage to Verdi,
which will bring together eight operas for the season, starting tonight.
Um, no, there was Falstaff first.
That’s the same thing again.
Being La Scala’s director during Verdi’s bicentenary is obviously not the easiest thing in the world,
but it’s an exciting challenge.
In some way, theatrically speaking,
you have to realise that we’re in a country where beauty and aesthetics hold sway over concept and thinking.
So how can you succeed in bringing in a new generation of directors who can tackle Verdi’s work
(which is really the private domain of the traditional Italian audience).
The show you’re going to see this evening is a real shock for an Italian audience.
Because you always base yourself on the past, in 1996 or 1986,
if I’m not mistaken, with the last Nabucco with Ricardo Mutti,
but frankly, when I see the set and the costumes – that’s no longer possible today.
What can you offer today?
I tried to answer those questions through each work.
The works were chosen according to the conductors, singers and set designers, and also the theatre’s history.
So there are so many parameters that at first it’s a bit…
Why put Oberto on the programme as opposed to San Bonifacio?
Because it’s the first opera that La Scala commissioned from Verdi.
That interested me greatly.
It's a work I really like.
I wanted Italian set designers; this evening it’s Daniele Abaddo,
but there is also Corsetti. There are lots of Italians all throughout this year.
Musically speaking, for the past eight years, almost all the Verdi premieres have been booed.
It’s impossible to get past the obstacle of all the singers, the conductor, the choirs, the set designer.
You can’t help but end up being brought down.
Perhaps tonight we won’t be brought down, but… I hope.
Musically, grand Italian opera is very complicated to do,
for the reason we all know :
There aren’t – considering the number of theatres, singers sing increasingly quantitatively ; there is a great shortage of Verdian voices.
A shortage of tenors, even of sopranos (this evening you’ll hear something exceptional),
you can count them on the fingers of one hand.
Three or four possible tenors – it’s very difficult.
You have Antonenko.
I think tonight you’ll see a very fine cast.
It was complicated to put on, but at the same time, I decided to do only Wagner and Verdi for the entire year.
The complete season has been built with eight Verdi productions.
Tomorrow you’ll see Brin Terfel and Falstaff... you did well to come.
Musically speaking, there is also a Macbeth directed by Valery Gergieff, which will also no doubt be an exciting moment.
Yes, there again, today in order to find and cast for La Scala, a Lady Macbeth, it’s the most difficult thing.
. That’s the relationship : This theatre has a very strong history,
the great singers, the great conductors, who have marked the history of the 20th century, you know who they are.
We are in a country where art in general relies heavily on the past and on nostalgia.
This is a perfectly respectable sentiment,
it’s just that this passage between the past and the present is always complicated when you try to think about the future.
Trying to bring a theatre like La Scala into the 21st century, you’re restricted even in terms of musical interpretation.
For example, nobody plays a note of baroque music in this country.
When I brought William Christie here for Les Indes Galantes in concert version for one evening,
the hall was half-empty, when it’s standing-room-only all year long.
When I said I wanted to do a Monteverdi cycle, they looked at me like this.
Why Monte without Verdi ?
Precisely ! You have to understand: you’re in the country that invented opera.
In order to make that leap between this career you’re having at La Scala and the one you’re going to have in Paris,
you always need to revive – for economic reasons – productions that are not necessarily the ones you would have wanted.
For example, I think some years ago you revived the Aida designed by Franco Zeffirelli ;
I’m not sure it’s an idea that you were entirely comfortable with. But you had to revive that production.
No, I’ve done worse, if you want to say it with humour.
When I arrived in 2005, the theatre was completely torn apart.
The superintendent had been shown the door; it was a huge storm: Riccardo Mutti had left the theatre,
and so the house was in a very complex, schizophrenic situation.
Objective Number One, for me, was to bring everyone together and try to get the artistic masses,
the administration, the employees moving again, bring them back together.
People have to be convinced by what you’re doing and then they’re ready to follow you.
So the idea I had was to ask Zeffirelli, who represented a very important portion of the opera’s history since the war…
… I thought it was right to ask him to help me bring La Scala together to do an Aida on December 7.
I know my colleagues made fun of me, but that doesn’t bother me much.
But I think that was very important for me, because I wanted to try to give back to that operahouse
not its identity, but the desire to work with a will again !