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all right this should be interesting joining me today are two former guests
on the show first uh... on the left here is jonathan phelps from the westborough
baptist church and on the right is former navy chaplain gordon cling
internet now
the westborough baptist church is known of course for the god hates *** slogan
during his last appearance on the show jonathan felt said that homosexuals
should absolutely be put to death now on the other hand former navy chaplain
claims schmidt believes that the solution to homosexuality can take the
form of gay excesses and who she claims to have performed a number of with a
bout of fifty percent success rate
let's start there chaplain that i can give us a sense of why do you believe
homosexuals should not be put to death
i'm a christian and i'm not lead
jewish person although i received awards from the jewish welfare bore the
anti-defamation league is
i believe the new testaments of the bible y_a_
it clarifies the
old testament of the bible
and i think but
there's the distinction in simply if you look at the data from the bible
that the god of the old testament is frequently described as hating some
people
and they got out of the new testament is never described is feeding people
unless it's quoting the old testament there is one time when it does that
forty three times in the new testament ts budget their word study on the word
hatred
and forty three times the word hatred is used in the new testament
units never used in a good way for example
jesus commands us to love people
all and not hate people the bible says in romans five eight
got demonstrated his love for us in this that while we were still centers
christ died for us
so the god of the new testament is clearly a god of love and his never got
a case
and so i believe in and the christian faith not the jewish religion
and that's why i'm different than other people ok jonathan to go ahead and
respond to that the chaplain making the case but the new testament just doesn't
indicate they got hit anybody
well of course
dubbed the new test in the simply
para phrases
uh... in large measure
the old testament
look at some five five it says
god hates all workers of iniquity and they will put it
uh... matthews
seven and matthew twenty-five the loop seven and
chapter seven luke chapter thirteen
the lord jesus christ
on judgment day
he says those that on the left he says depart part for me
he workers of iniquity i've never been to you
that new u_s_o_ at a uh... worded
is talking about
i never loved you know we have to define what the hatred of god is
and it's it's purpose
the police the wicked in health forever
the lord jesus christ was the greatest hellfire brimstone preacher that ever
lived on the earth
and so
that's what they're thinking about is to find uh... spend a lot of
your neighbor
is first spoken up
and political chapter nineteen
versus seventeen and eighteen
where it says he gives you the working definition
uh... inwards to this effect docile suffer
but you're not separate
upon thy neighbor as ourself by all mean
rebuked him
about us and won't bring about the since taking dale
and great mercy
from the bible not from your notions in your head as to what you think
uh... is taking them now but what does the bob more deal
as to what's taking the health jonathan i want to get your reaction then because
we've heard the chaplain react to the west for a baptist church of god hates
*** idea
the kaplan indicates that
j access systems can be successful he says about fifty percent of his personal
success rate on a gay actresses and what is your position on
excesses in as a solution to homosexuality jonathan
i'll answer that question promptly but let me beg race for a minute
that uh...
no the love the spoken out there
can have no or objective meaning unless you're doing it pursuant to the bop upon
that is to tell them about the same mistakenly health how at all
we don't hate
any individual fact we manifest our love towards them by warning them about this
and that will cost them their eternal soul
and what africans
they'll end up in helena hell has to be a manifestation
of court dot
i_d_ trial purpose to punish the wicket in health river which is the definition
of his hatred
and as a relation to brother
analysis
uh... the bible talks in terms of their b
into types of children
those their children of light in children of darkness
so some of that special
um... brotherly
fellow elect
fellow christian love
that led to fairly apply to
uh... those that have
and reprobate in themselves
now let's talk for minute about that domi increased three strong because we
don't own salvation god may very well manifest himself to that in fact hall
says he was the cheapest absent
but the excesses of
okay thank you
i'm glad you got me back on track their because on a roll
actions should ans
uh... 'em
are nonsensical
it is uh... in terms of
some human par
uh... scene
and talent i would
cautions
my good friend mister klink internet that he should get his insurance paid
out
cancerous this story and cnn.com that said
uh... there's that initially for that nonsense
because
those fifty percent of the cases that you lose nancy in those days
supposedly
you convert
the later figure out that was a sham into yet via
i know i'm warn you about that because
there's no
there's no example
since the apostles
uh... or the lord jesus christ
directing uh... any whilst
tear it out of any
there is a an example
of the money i could be there
and i recommend everybody read it
but that special hocus pocus you know with the head spinning green pea soup
line out of their mouths
a kind of a scenario
there's no bible forty for that
uh... outside of the new testament church laying hands on those that are
pursuant to
uh... jane chapter five right
and other examples and
uh... i think this is nonsense
nonsensical
talent please respond to that the idea that this is an czar nonsensical
again i have to go back to the bible uh... appreciate my brother's
encouragement abouts
hell because jesus does teach
eighty eight times about internal punishment in hellfire right now i a m
teaches ninety times about heaven so it's about the same jesus says that the
righteous what were the forgiven will be rewarded
uh... the known repentant will be damned
uh... but
as with regards to exorcist it is a new testament practice and uh... only with
the apostles because
in local lebanese signet jesus or maybe it's luke eighteen jesus said dot not
just the twelve but he also said that the seventy-two ok it member already
over being on experience it be said
whatever
authority dot is that are being he's also once he gets a trample on serpents
tend to cast out demons
he's commanded us to do this and matthew ten in any new testament christian who
believes the u_n_ now the bible also has to believe that god has commanded us to
cast out the admins
and it's not like in the movies it's not
pea soup in people bombing and had standing i'd never experience that what
i've seen okay
daniel repentance with two years when people repent and come to christ the
holy spirit moves into their heart and a new way in the double d parts from them
that's common with any conversion live in a which i want my brother to examine
that so i know that there's much more to be said about the excesses of but in the
interest of hitting a couple of different points in the evening we've
gotten
initially we we've gotten
the reaction from the chaplain to god hates *** then we've gotten jonathan's
reaction to excesses and so now i want to go back to the cap within and ask you
as you know the westborough baptist church in jonathan personally
are known for picketing the the funerals of soldiers with the idea that soldiers
who are dying overseas are being papa it's a punishment for the u_s_ is
acceptance of homosexuality as a former member of the military chaplain what is
your reaction to the protest thing of soldiers funerals because of
homosexuality
well um...
uh... you know it's a complicated question of course the there's a great
part i think his come out and said that they have a right within the confines of
a certain space to do picketing but i think as a matter of taste i personally
find it uh...
in a reprehensible
but they would side of the memory of r_t_c_ soldiers and sailors who die for
christian faith for religious freedom
uh... and not necessarily that i don't know having served in the military i
don't know any soldier who died for homosexual rights
they just don't think that way so i know the administration thinks that way we
should be protesting the obon administration in their policies
uh... rb let soldiers who come back for more heavy sacrificed so much for the
first amendment
for your rights mister phelps for your right to take it in protest we should be
honoring those who sacrificed so greatly
for that privilege to have free speech and free religion
jonathan taken away
or excel
as they
i obtained a degree in the in history and i specialize in the history of the
first amendment the adoption of a person and
and the reason it was adopted and i think no one can gains a against this
it is to protect them i know preview
so if they died for my right
to say it
than if i stand at a respectful distance so everybody coming in in going
uh... are free to do so
and express my viewpoint
which is a minority viewpoint
the certainly they died for that right and that's cool
the really the only significance
other fight
but what has happened is the military's declared war
on that minority view they have literally
than everything within their power
uh... to
resist that
to fight against that
they hate
concept of the first amendment
so i call you hypocrites when you say
uh... do that to paper of the first amendment
you despise the first amendment
in my view
and furthermore
you understand that the map devastation of the love of god
is that he grants repentance
two people
if you will have to do with standing there with the big signs that a
soldier's funeral jonathan
because said of
it please god by the foolishness of preaching
to save them that believed
uh... and so we are and there is only example in the bible you can find lots n
stand some pulpit
but standing out on the streets
and the main places that people come and go to
spots if you will
uh... that place where they're not invited to be
and reminding them
of the consequences
of eternal consequences of the nation
caps true love
that's true sacrifice
that's where it camps
well i have to tell you are and sock that through individual
who were so obsessed with being against homosexuality have almost absolutely no
common ground at all on which they agree i mean chaplain i we need to wrap up i
want to go quickly to each of you chaplain is there anything you want your
very anti-gay of course dot hates *** churches very anti-gay is there anything
you agree with jonathan phelps on
as a chaplain i was the guy who stood on the street corner in defended it
the right to pray publicly in jesus name i even sacrifice my own career right for
the first amendment freedom to say controversial things like the name of
jesus ivory and i i would defend jonathan's right to do
uh... a picket you know in the right place at the right time as the courts
have said that it's a lot
you should be allowed to do that but
i totally disagree with his speech the bible never uses the word ***
the bible might refer to them asylum lights are homosexuals but i think its
disrespectful in some way they've got they've got of the old testament forty
five times says that he hates centers
but the god of the new testament loads centers and so
but any agreement
the my my concern is that
jonathan wants to practice judaism
and david if you love homosexuals that have been really what you want a
practices christianity because that's they got of the new testament is a god
of love obviously that their jonathan i'll go to you anything you agree with
the former kaplan about
you have to actually answer your question
you test on it and that is hell
and of course by agreeing
to help he have student agree
to god's eternal
uh... to punish the wicket in hell forever which is
can only be rationally
uh... manifestation of his hatred
as got under finds it
it doesn't define it definitely in the old and new testament
at your jesus christ the same yesterday too
their preferred
the same offer both books
the same spirit that interprets
a to his people both books
the manifest the truth
uh... to his church in both books
it's nonsense talk about a different deity in the old versus the new test
tube
okay well i guess then what we have here is an incredible situation where
we have to completely unrelated and unconnected an incongruous anti-gay
movement we have been speaking with jonathan phelps of the westborough
baptist church and former navy chaplain gordon coinage met gentlemen thank you
to vote for having the discussion
thank you gentlemen
that lets you get the couples to jonathan