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PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Today we're talking about video games and
the storytelling therein with our fabulous guests.
And I'll let them introduce themselves.
Let's start with Veronica.
VERONICA BELMONT: Hi, I'm Veronica Belmont.
I'm the co-host of "The Sword and Laser" video show, also on
Geek and Sundry and in audio podcast form as well.
"Tekzilla on Revision3.
And I guess my video game cred would come from "Qore" on the
PlayStation network, which I hosted for four years, and
also, "Game On!" on the TWiT Network.
And that's it.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: And Jerry.
JERRY HOLKINS: Hello, I'm Jerry Holkins.
I write under the pseudonym "Tycho Brahe," and I write
"Penny Arcade" with my friend Mike Krahulik.
And we also host the PAX shows, and administrate
Child's Play, and probably something else
that I don't remember.
There's a lot of stuff.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: And has also recently turned his hand to
writing a few video games.
JERRY HOLKINS: Oh, it's true.
I mean, that's been going on for a while.
But the series was resuscitated with the help of
Zeboyd Games.
We decided to do it sort of an indie RPG way.
And I'm having a lot more fun that way.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Cool.
And our anchorman.
That's you.
JERRY HOLKINS: That's you, Colin.
VERONICA BELMONT: I think he has a delay.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Oh, no.
We've lost audio.
Check your little--
yeah.
There we go.
COLIN MCCOMB: I get there--
hello, we've lost audio twice.
It's getting really weird for me.
OK, anyway, so instead of holding this whole thing up
here, I'm going to pretend that I can't hear my voice
coming back to me.
My name in Colin McComb, I am a game designer.
I worked on "Planescape Torment," which is probably
the thing that I'm best known for and-- holy ***, this is
driving me crazy.
OK.
[LAUGHTER]
COLIN MCCOMB: I am currently the
creative lead for "Torment--
Tides of Numenera," the Kickstarter for which is
launching tomorrow.
And holy god, it's launching tomorrow.
And I am really hoping that everything turns out awesome,
and that everybody comes out to pledge, and also, that I
can actually deliver on this thing because--
holy ***, it's launching tomorrow.
JERRY HOLKINS: Yeah.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Yeah.
And you've got a lot of old school people who remember
"Planescape" fondly.
And actually, "Planescape" is what I hold up as one of the
best examples of storytelling in modern video games.
Whenever anyone says, oh, it's pretty good.
And I say, no, you obviously have never played a game like
"Planescape Torment" because then you would know.
JERRY HOLKINS: But Pat, I mean, that's gruesome.
For you to say that that's an example of modern video games,
that's a pretty gruesome indictment, man.
I think "Planescape Torment's" classic now.
I'm not saying that you've done something, like
language-wise.
I'm saying that if we haven't beaten "Planescape Torment" in
2013, there's probs at some level of this enterprise.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: And I would like to
talk about that, honestly.
Because--
OK, he'll be back.
He's probably just reloading here.
And this is really what I would like to talk about, is
because we've seen such huge strides in so many elements of
video games.
I mean, they are beautiful.
I mean, all of us have been around for a while.
And you remember what the old games looked like.
And now they're beautiful.
There's these elaborate worlds that we can explore.
But the narrative, like the actual stories, I mean, it's
rare that I run into a game that actually has legitimately
good storytelling.
Am I being a curmudgeon here?
VERONICA BELMONT: I think you are being a curmudgeon.
I think the advances that we've seen in video games are
amazing, but it has gone two different ways.
So we can see some games, like something like "Braid," for
example that has not the most high-tech kind of graphics.
It's got great mechanics, but it's not necessarily something
that looks like an "Uncharted," for example.
But the storytelling element is really there.
But then we do have something like an "Uncharted," like with
"Uncharted 2," "Uncharted 3." Like Amy Hennig is such a
freaking genius when it comes to writing and storytelling.
And then we get that more cinematic element, something
that's almost emulating a movie-type experience with
interactive developments built into that.
So we're still getting that common theme of great
storytelling, but there's different ways of those
stories being told.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: And that, I think, is really--
we should get this out at the beginning, where there's great
games, games as games.
There's games as almost like cinema.
And that's legitimate and can be done very, very well.
And then there is something that is available to video
games that is not available in really any other media to the
same extent, which is the opportunity for interactive
storytelling.
And that is where I feel the ball has been
firmly, firmly dropped.
JERRY HOLKINS: But no one wants to pay for it.
I mean, it can be done.
But no one wants to pay for it.
That's why Colin has to go to the entire universe hat in
hand to get this game made.
Would you say that's inaccurate, Colin?
COLIN MCCOMB: Not at all.
In "Planescape Torment," it's a cult classic.
A lot of people really love it.
And I've got to give due props to Mr. Avallone for this one.
But the game was not a best-seller.
It sold moderately well.
It's enjoyed a resurgence of popularity on GOG.
But I wouldn't say that it's doing anywhere near the
numbers of, say, "Call of Duty," or "Mass Effect," or
"Dragon Age," or any of the--
even any of the latter-day RPGs here
It's an accounting error, the budget that we're asking for
here, for the big studios.
We're trying to bring something like that back.
And it really is a shame that we have to go to Kickstarter.
But on the other hand, it's great that we get to.
Because now we can say to the fans directly, do
you want this game?
Do you want to see something like this in the future?
And we get the feedback.
And we aren't wasting tens of millions of dollars on a
prototype, and then saying, oh, ***.
Nobody likes us.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: So do we come to consensus that easily
that interactive storytelling has been ***
for the last 15 years?
COLIN MCCOMB: No, there have been
some really good examples.
I mean, "The Walking Dead" game.
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh, yeah.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Yeah.
COLIN MCCOMB: Let's be honest, who did not cry
at the end of that?
VERONICA BELMONT: I haven't gotten to the end of it.
JERRY HOLKINS: I cried several times.
VERONICA BELMONT: Shut up.
Shut up.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: OK, we should institute
spoiler alert because--
VERONICA BELMONT: I haven't had a chance.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: I haven't had it all the way through
that one, either.
COLIN MCCOMB: OK, you'll survive.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: I have heard really good things about
people have gone all the way through that.
What else do we have?
Let's keep this first discussion relatively modern,
then we can have the nostalgia trip to back in the day.
But what else has been really good recently?
And by recently, let's just say, 10 years.
JERRY HOLKINS: Oh, jeez.
VERONICA BELMONT: I mean--
COLIN MCCOMB: "Alpha
Protocol." Anything by Obsidian.
JERRY HOLKINS: Yeah.
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah.
COLIN MCCOMB: OK.
Sorry, Veronica.
You go.
VERONICA BELMONT: No.
I mean, I thought "Dishonored" had great writing.
I thought that--
crap, what did I play?
Surprisingly, and a lot of people would probably disagree
with me on this one, I think "Guild Wars
2" has amazing writing.
COLIN MCCOMB: Yes.
VERONICA BELMONT: And that's an MMO.
And I mean, it stands out to me where I'm listening to the
characters talk.
I'm like, wow, that was pretty well done.
Impressive.
So I think there's a lot of modern titles right now that
are doing a pretty good job.
I don't think--
good writing is necessary for certain times, certain kinds
of storytelling.
I don't know if you need good writing for modern warfare,
"Black Ops" or games like that exactly.
I don't know if it's a necessary
element to the game play.
But I see it a lot in action games.
I see it a lot in-- even MMOs these days.
So I have no complaints in the writing department.
You can tell when it's bad, for sure.
But I think more often than not, I'm impressed
by how good it is.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Really?
You can honestly say that more often
than not, you're impressed?
VERONICA BELMONT: I would say--
yeah.
I would say about--
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Wow.
VERONICA BELMONT: 30% impressed.
JERRY HOLKINS: Pat, now let's take a moment and consider the
extent to which you might be a picky-pants.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: I'm more than willing to admit that I
am extraordinarily critical.
And also, I do want to draw a distinction between the
writing and the storytelling.
JERRY HOLKINS: Yeah.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Because they're closely related.
But you can have very good storytelling without very much
writing at all.
COLIN MCCOMB: "LIMBO."
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Yeah.
Or honestly, "Portal." "Portal," it's like some of
the best dialogue I've ever heard only had one participant
in it because it was happening in "Portal 2."
VERONICA BELMONT: Did anyone play "Dear Esther?"
JERRY HOLKINS: Yeah.
VERONICA BELMONT: So that was an interesting exercise in not
only writing, but also storytelling.
Maybe not so much in game play.
I'm still not sure how I feel about that.
JERRY HOLKINS: And what happens when you go all the
way story is that people don't think
you've made a game anymore.
I mean, you see what I'm saying?
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Yeah.
JERRY HOLKINS: If you just give someone a playable story,
they're like, wait a second.
I'm actually expecting something else from an
interactive experience.
The interaction in "Dear Esther" I would say is almost
identical to the interaction I have with a book
where I turn a page.
And I don't have a problem with that.
I'll pay full price for that experience every time.
I want to see that.
But at the same time, that's really the level of
interaction, and not everyone is satisfied by
that in that context.
VERONICA BELMONT: Well, let's talk about something that's
even a little less, like pull it back a little bit from the
esoteric and look at something like "Heavy Rain," which is--
I thought it was a very well-written game, but people
complained because it just didn't feel enough
like a game to them.
It felt more like being in a film and kind of working in
those moments.
I don't know if everyone agrees with that or not?
COLIN MCCOMB: That was one of the purposes
of the game, though.
That was one of the visions that they
laid out going forward.
I'm not sure why anybody--
VERONICA BELMONT: But was it a success?
COLIN MCCOMB: --was surprised by the fact
that it felt formic.
VERONICA BELMONT: Because I don't
gamers are really expecting.
Because I think maybe the people who are writers or
people who were critics of a game like that knew what to
expect a little bit more.
But I don't know if people who hadn't been following the
whole progression of the development and the creation
of that new style of game play and storytelling in a video
game really understood.
COLIN MCCOMB: Right.
I'll give you that.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: And I think the target audience--
this mythical target audience that people
are aiming for is--
I don't think it is really what they're aiming for.
I think that they're
underestimating their audience.
Because honestly, a huge chunk of their audience is us.
It's not just 17--
JERRY HOLKINS: World-renowned fantasy writers?
What?
What's this conversation about?
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: The geeks--
COLIN MCCOMB: We're all just here to watch
Pat jerk off on us.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: The geeks--
JERRY HOLKINS: Oh, I see.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: --that used to be the 18-year-olds that
would play the Nintendo or do whatever, now we're grownups,
and we've played a lot of games.
We're intelligent adults.
And I feel like we're being pandered to, like I play a
game that ends up being no challenge.
I play a game--
VERONICA BELMONT: What games are you playing?
What games have you played recently?
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: I will admit--
VERONICA BELMONT: No, that you feel like this about.
I just want to know for like a barometer.
JERRY HOLKINS: Now we've got you.
COLIN MCCOMB: I would also like to know, are you looking
to these games for storytelling?
Or are you looking to them for challenge?
Or are you looking to them for both?
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Well, honestly--
and I'm going to default to Yahtzee here because I love
his video game reviews, where the marriage of the game play
and the narrative, the story and the game play need to
complement each other.
And so sometimes, with "Portal," I feel like there
was a wonderful marriage-- in both the "Portals," honesty--
a wonderful marriage of the game play and the storytelling
that all worked very well together.
JERRY HOLKINS: But do you know why?
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Honestly, I am not experienced enough with
the production of it to be able to
figure out exactly why.
Not off the top of my head.
JERRY HOLKINS: Part of it is the people involved.
Chris Avallone, everybody knows how everyone feels about
Chris Avallone.
But I think Erik Wolpaw is easily number two, if not
number one in writing.
But it is not every day that you get an environment that,
functionally speaking, has unlimited money And a cult
cabal of crazy, talented weirdos, essentially in a
crock pot turning into stew.
That is not--
VERONICA BELMONT: Delicious, delicious stew.
JERRY HOLKINS: --how the industry works.
What happens is that people make a game--
and follow me up here, Colin.
An entire game gets made and then a writer gets pulled in
at the end.
COLIN MCCOMB: A lot of times that's true.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: And see, honestly, that's
what it feels to me.
JERRY HOLKINS: Well, it feels like that on purpose.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: They've got all these people, and they've
got all the pixels and all the polygons, and then they go,
hey, Ed, didn't you do an English minor?
Do you want to write some *** for us for our game?
And I'm like--
I mean, here's the secret.
Writers are cheap.
JERRY HOLKINS: I know, man.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: There's a lot of really talented writers
out there who would write you some ***-up *** stories.
JERRY HOLKINS: But does that story make you more money?
The answer is no.
No.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: But how could they tell?
VERONICA BELMONT: OK.
Well, let's look at some AAA titles that I don't think that
happened with.
I made the example of "Uncharted" earlier because it
stands out in my mind as being--
JERRY HOLKINS: Same deal.
Amy, right?
VERONICA BELMONT: Well, Amy.
I mean, she wrote this story from beginning to end.
She was with it the entire process.
That's great.
She has that ability after working in the industry for 20
years, though.
She has that kind of pull where she can do that.
Even something like the "Assassin's
Creed" series, though.
It's got the--
JERRY HOLKINS: But that's another example.
All the examples, all of our favorite examples, are in this
environment where--
VERONICA BELMONT: They have all the money and all the
stuff they want to do.
JERRY HOLKINS: It's called Alice.
Remember, Ubisoft just opened up an entire creator-writer
super zone pure to solve this problem.
Essentially they've created an internal writing consultancy
to solve this exact problem.
I don't mean to interrupt you.
And I won't do that.
VERONICA BELMONT: No, you're right.
You're totally right.
JERRY HOLKINS: You are zeroing right in on the games that
have this optimal scenario.
And as a generality, it's just not-- it is not a focus.
It is not a focus because I think they don't perceive that
it adds much to the bottom line.
Somebody's got to pay for it.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: And somebody's got to risk,
somebody's got to risk the engine money on the story.
Well, so how about this.
Let's take it in a slightly different direction where
rather than talking in big terms.
It's like, oh, this story didn't work, or whatever, how
about little things like, honestly, if I write a book
and I turned it into an editor, or I give it to a beta
reader and certain things show up in it, they will say, this
can't happen.
This is silly, whatever.
But it seems like in video games--
and I'll throw out an option just because it's one of the
more recent games that I've played.
I played "Far Cry" because my girlfriend picked it up for me
for Christmas.
I'm like, not my normal genre, but I'll stretch myself a
little bit here.
And the game play itself is actually very compelling.
It's a pretty game.
But the storytelling--
and not even the storytelling.
There's something that I call in my own head.
You know about the uncanny valley when you see a face?
JERRY HOLKINS: Yeah.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: And if it's a cartoon, you're fine if it
doesn't look like a person.
But the closer it gets to real, the more potential you
have for some real creepishness.
And I think of the uncanny valley of narrative because
you never played the old "Super Mario" games and went,
hold on, this guy is breaking rocks with his head?
This is crazy.
Because there was no narrative for it to seem unreal with.
And the art and the style of the game play was such that
realism was never in the picture.
But here you have "Far Cry" where the graphics are very
realistic and the whole thing seems to generate this world,
this grittiness, this immersive experience.
And then in the middle of it, I see a person, like going
about his business and he's carrying an iron I-beam.
He's carrying 10 feet of iron I-beam.
Because these characters have to do something while you're
sneaking up on them to kill them, right?
JERRY HOLKINS: Yeah, that's too heavy.
That's way too heavy.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: You think?
COLIN MCCOMB: It is?
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: But like, it was some guy's job to model
that I-beam.
It's like, what can we have him picking up?
I know, an I-beam.
And I'm like, this does not--
how does that happen?
And OK, fine.
That's a silly, one little example like that.
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah, I can't really think of another
example like that off the top of my head.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: I have a list, thank you very much.
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh, good.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: How about the fact that while I'm
sneaking up on the camp to, of course, kill a bunch of
people, I watch one guy wander off and pees because this is a
great opportunity to kill someone when he's peeing.
But I missed my window of opportunity.
He stops peeing.
He goes back into camp.
I'm like, oh, I so--
And then, on a hunch, I wait for another eight seconds.
He turns around and he pees again.
JERRY HOLKINS: Prostate.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: I watched this guy--
VERONICA BELMONT: Probably has a UTI.
JERRY HOLKINS: Yeah, exactly.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: He has the longest pee, but he does it
like 10 times.
He pees for like 30 seconds.
VERONICA BELMONT: But is this storytelling or is this just
bad mechanics?
COLIN MCCOMB: He's staying hydrated.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: You know what this is?
No, no, no, no, no, don't excuse this *** behavior.
You *** apologists.
COLIN MCCOMB: It's scripting.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: What this is, if you're creating a
realistic world, why would you have things in there that are
easily fixable that are so pointedly unrealistic?
Can you really excuse this?
VERONICA BELMONT: It's probably laziness.
COLIN MCCOMB: QA.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: But so much of the game is so carefully
attended to.
The trees are rendered, all of these things.
And this is not storytelling, it's not scripting.
It's just like they don't care.
VERONICA BELMONT: Well, you know what it is?
I mean, these characters have to do something.
They have to walk on their little rail to go around.
And you're not really supposed to see them go beyond--
unless you're playing "Assassin's Creed," actually--
continue on their little trek.
You kill them.
You move on.
And to be fair, they're trying to do something that is
seemingly realistic.
They're trying to be like, oh, if this guy was camped out in
the jungle, he'd have to take a *** at some point.
So let's put that in there, make that one of
his scripted actions.
So in a way, it's good.
But because of the way you're playing the game or anyone
would be playing the game, you see the kinks in the armor.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: And I will admit that I am picky.
I will admit that I am critical.
But it seems like this is something that if you're
striving for realism, this is a relatively small thing.
COLIN MCCOMB: Let me throw out some possibilities here.
One of them is that it was just a scripting thing.
The guy said, OK, you know what?
I'm going to get back to this.
And he never did.
Second is that it might have gotten to QA.
And QA--
somebody, I don't know, had a bad day, broke up with his
girlfriend, or something, and just sort of mailed in his
spot on that area, and said, OK, you know what?
*** it, that's good.
I'm going to go out and get drunk.
The third possibility is that they had this on a longer
cycle and due to some sort of hardware limitation or
constraint, it just sort of booted that cycle down to
eight seconds.
And suddenly the dude's going back and forth because he's
carrying the red keys.
JERRY HOLKINS: So Pat, two things, two things.
The first thing, I would say that as a generality, the sort
of person who does scripting in video games is not the same
sort of person that works on construction sites.
That's point one.
So there's a gulf of real-world knowledge.
This is just a thing.
There's a gulf of real-world knowledge that exists in that.
And he may not know how much that I-beam weighs.
Number two, I saw a play where a person "purported" to fly.
And I am almost certain it was some kind of wire.
I don't think that he was ensorcelled.
I don't think he had fizzy "lifting" drinks.
I think they were trying to pull a fast one.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: OK.
Rather than me be the one who's sort of lobbing these
up, can you guys think of times-- what
has pissed you off?
What has broken the spell?
Because if we're going for immersive entertainment here,
you know what I'm talking about, right?
JERRY HOLKINS: Of course.
For me, it has to do with--
and I'm sure that this bothers you, too.
In fact, I strongly suspect it's also on your list.
And again, there's not much for it.
But the little barks, they're called.
Little tiny bits of audio that these hapless *** sacks--
VERONICA BELMONT: This was my example, too.
JERRY HOLKINS: There's a relatively famous one in
"Splinter Cell Conviction," where--
COLIN MCCOMB: That's just what I was going to say.
JERRY HOLKINS: Yeah.
They're always referring specifically to Sam Fisher in
these really--
like really weirdly intimate ways.
So you're talking about someone
physically doing something.
I'm saying, I might not be looking at that guy when he's
doing that.
This is--
I can hear it all the time when I'm waiting
by the snack machine.
And then they're always trying to have direct conversations
with me while I do it.
I don't feel like a panther in that scenario.
I feel like a jack-off.
I don't want to be that dude.
VERONICA BELMONT: I have kind of the same scenario, similar
scenario for example, in "Skyrim," where all of the
soldiers just happened to have been an adventurer like you.
JERRY HOLKINS: Called a soldier.
VERONICA BELMONT: And they all had the same horrific accident
of taking an arrow to the knee.
No matter what town you're in, they all do.
And they all hate curved swords.
So it's like, I just wish they had maybe varied the chatter
from town to town.
COLIN MCCOMB: The one that gets me is "Assassin's Creed."
You nail a guy.
You leave the body lying dead on the street.
The guards all get-- oh, holy ***.
And they run around like little bees
for a little second.
VERONICA BELMONT: Then they give up.
COLIN MCCOMB: They're like, OK.
He's dead.
JERRY HOLKINS: You know what?
I could find him.
VERONICA BELMONT: We didn't like Bob anyway.
JERRY HOLKINS: But it would be hard.
COLIN MCCOMB: I'm just going to step over this corpse here.
And one of my friends will come along and get
pissed off about it.
And then, he'll be OK with it, too.
And we're all essentially OK with the amount of
bloodletting on our streets here because,
you know, *** it.
JERRY HOLKINS: Hold it.
If every time I kill somebody in "Assassin's Creed," if the
"Assassin's Creed--" and maybe it'll be possible on this
year's next-generation consoles.
But if the police chief opens up a file and then starts to
investigate and starts to make one of those little pin things
with the strings, do we want that?
Or do we want them to forget so that we can keep playing?
Because this is the real problem.
Underneath the rest of these problems, there needs to be a
system where we can be inside and one that we can endure.
You know what I mean?
We have to be able to get to the rest of it.
And "Assassin's Creed" is a game
that's got amazing writing.
They hide a lot of it in their database.
They hide a lot of really funny stuff in the database.
But the reality is that the whole setup--
we have to be in it.
And I think that at this stage of the game, we have to want
to participate.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Ultimately, it's a
suspension of disbelief?
JERRY HOLKINS: I think that we work with the designer and the
developer to create a space.
COLIN MCCOMB: When you're in a game and you're like, OK,
well, this door looks like it's been painted on the wall.
Obviously, it's just part of the bitmap that goes across
the screen here to indicate that this is the boundary of
the space here.
I know I can't open this door because it doesn't have the
same characteristics as these other doors visibly.
And we don't *** a lot about that because we're like, OK, I
understand this level cannot actually go on forever.
VERONICA BELMONT: I hate it when I can't jump up on
something that clearly, as a functioning human being in the
video game, I should be able to jump up onto.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Yeah, I know.
COLIN MCCOMB: The technology is moving forward.
But there's certain constraints that we have to
right now just be like, OK, fine.
We'll take it for now--
VERONICA BELMONT: I'll play your game-- literally.
COLIN MCCOMB: --Mr. Money Bags.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: And I do agree where there's some
things that we can kind of--
we can let go.
Like why does everyone that the Enterprise meets, they
really speak English?
It's like, that one's so big, that one we're going to sweep
under the rug.
But then, everything else better be really realistic to
make up for that.
Because that's what you do when you're writing a novel.
That's what you do when you're doing any
other sort of writing.
You build up solid verisimilitude every way,
every place you possibly can so that when you have to fudge
one and wave your hands a little bit, you've earned the
reader's trust.
And it feels like they're letting a lot of very easy--
a lot of low-hanging fruit just fall to the ground when
it would just be an issue of writing a few other scripts
for that poor guard with the shot in the knee, or
something like that.
JERRY HOLKINS: But how many more hours in the VO booth?
You see what I mean?
Because the writing in games is not just
writing on the page.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: And I do understand that.
But still, out of the $100 million--
OK not $100 million.
But the vast pile of money that went into there, do you
think a little bit more so that--
this thing that was so ridiculous that everybody
talked about it, that's a problem.
That breaks the immersion.
Now, on the other hand, I'd like to point
out some of the ones--
ultimately, it ends up being an issue of one game does
something really, really well, and everyone else points at it
and goes, that was awesome.
And then they try to do it, but the
execution is the issue.
And I think a lot of those overheard conversations come
from the original "Dayus X." Because honestly, I remember
working my way through that "Dayus X," hearing some of
those overheard conversations.
And by the way, this was way back in the day.
And a lot of those conversations were distinct
unto each level, into each situation.
And if you didn't hear them, you just
didn't hear them ever.
JERRY HOLKINS: Yeah, "No One Lives Forever" executed that
really, really well.
That series has a lot of custom conversations that are
humorous in nature, which makes them twice as hard.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: And what I thought was brilliant is I'm
building all these biomods into me.
I finally get the one that gives me the
invisibility cloak.
And as I'm sneaking past some guys, I hear two of them
there, and they're going--
I hear that he can just disappear.
And I feel like God Emperor of Doom for a second.
Because these people are whispering something that--
I'm a legend to them.
Now then, jump forward a decade and I'm playing
"Skyrim," a game that I played with the obsessiveness of like
a ***-addicted monkey, like pressing a feeder bar.
But the fact remains I join the Thieves Guild in this one
little town.
Then I travel to the other edge of the map, and suddenly,
somebody goes, you look like one or those
shifty thief types.
And I'm like, how the *** do you know that?
It's *** is what it is.
JERRY HOLKINS: And it doesn't make you feel like a very good
thief, I'll tell you that much.
VERONICA BELMONT: No.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Right.
It's like, I just joined a secret club in the sewers of
this town and suddenly shopkeeper Schmo knows it a
world away?
COLIN MCCOMB: If you joined in the sewers, there's probably a
pretty good explanation for how we could tell.
JERRY HOLKINS: Yeah.
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah.
JERRY HOLKINS: Yeah, rank.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Yeah, I feel nit-picky.
I feel like an old man on his porch saying, why are you kids
screwing up my lawn?
But you know--
COLIN MCCOMB: It was better back in the day.
JERRY HOLKINS: Sometimes it was.
COLIN MCCOMB: Well, that's true.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Sometimes it was.
VERONICA BELMONT: But sometimes it wasn't.
JERRY HOLKINS: Right, absolutely.
COLIN MCCOMB: That is also true.
JERRY HOLKINS: Most of the time it wasn't.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Let's do the--
COLIN MCCOMB: In fact, a lot of it really sucked.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: What was really good and what really
sucked back in the day?
Here we date ourselves.
JERRY HOLKINS: Well, did anybody have a Commodore 64?
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: I did not.
COLIN MCCOMB: I had an Atari.
JERRY HOLKINS: OK, well this story is going to suck pretty
bad then, guys.
VERONICA BELMONT: Tell it anyways.
JERRY HOLKINS: I need you to be like--
COLIN MCCOMB: Fire away.
VERONICA BELMONT: We'll smile and nod.
COLIN MCCOMB: I had a friend with a Commodore.
JERRY HOLKINS: There you go.
Fair enough.
Dynamix made a game called "Project Firestart."
COLIN MCCOMB: Yes.
JERRY HOLKINS: So you know what I'm talking
about there at least.
They went on to make "Tribes" and "Starsiege"
and stuff like that.
But this was really primitive.
I mean, compared to today's games, it was really primitive
in a lot of ways.
But it had action and puzzle-solving.
And it was just an incredible atmosphere.
And what's so funny is that, I'll go back and I'll look at
these screens and I will be like, no.
I mean, even though I know for a fact these are screens from
the game, the atmosphere they evoked ennobled this platform.
When I look at the screenshots for it-- and you'll pull them
up and you'll be like, OK, yeah, I see some blood.
I see some pixels.
It looked like a photo-- like in my mind when I think about
that same thing, it looked like a photograph.
A, because it looked good for the time.
But B, I had buy-in.
I had buy-in.
You know what I mean?
It's getting harder and harder for me to get buy-in.
And I don't know if it's because I am ancient of days.
Because it still happens.
But there's also a lot more games now.
That's the other thing.
COLIN MCCOMB: Well, OK, let me ask this--
how are you with "Minecraft?"
JERRY HOLKINS: Oh, I play "Minecraft" with
my son all the time.
COLIN MCCOMB: Yeah, I've got so much *** buy-in on that
game right now.
JERRY HOLKINS: Yeah.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: And that's a great--
COLIN MCCOMB: It's blocky and weird and strange.
And it is just so incredibly addictive.
And there is no story line except for the
one that you make.
VERONICA BELMONT: No writing.
JERRY HOLKINS: No.
And you'll make a new world.
COLIN MCCOMB: There is a very--
the whole go to the Nether and all of that.
JERRY HOLKINS: The very ending actually has some really
interesting writing.
You should pull that up some time, Pat.
After you beat "Minecraft," quote unquote, there is a very
interesting text vignette.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Really?
JERRY HOLKINS: Yes.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: I've kind of been avoiding "Minecraft"
because it's open-ended.
And that's be like starting a *** habit for me.
JERRY HOLKINS: No, man.
You can't fight it.
When your boy starts playing it, it's over.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: I will definitely do it.
VERONICA BELMONT: I spent four hours digging
tunnels under an island.
And then I just like, what the *** did I just do?
COLIN MCCOMB: Yeah, exactly.
VERONICA BELMONT: What has become of my life?
I don't even know.
I never went back.
That was it.
COLIN MCCOMB: If I may toot our own horn here, man, I got
to say that based on all of this, you guys are really
going to love "Wasteland 2." You guys are going to love it.
JERRY HOLKINS: Yeah?
VERONICA BELMONT: Yay.
JERRY HOLKINS: Cool.
COLIN MCCOMB: Oh, yeah.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Well, actually,
let's take the chance.
This is something new I'd like to do here on "Story Board."
Let's take a moment for everybody to briefly mention
projects that they have coming up, just because we are all
creative types, and the people that watch the show tend to
like creative things.
So make your official pitch.
COLIN MCCOMB: Me first?
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Yeah, go ahead.
COLIN MCCOMB: All right, I'll go first.
All right, as I said before, I'm working on "Torment Tides
of Numenera, and that is tormentrpg.com.
We are creating a game that is going to be a thematic
successor to the incredibly awesome "Planescape Torment.
And I think that we are basing this on four pillars, those
being a deep, thematically satisfying story, a personal
narrative that feels like an epic, a wildly crazy and
different world, and reactivity out the ***.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: You're singing my song.
COLIN MCCOMB: The Kickstarter starts tomorrow.
Give us money, please.
I would really like to make this game.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Link probably down below?
We'll do a link down below.
COLIN MCCOMB: Yeah.
My lower third is not working here.
So tormentrpg.com.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Cool.
COLIN MCCOMB: Thank you.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Stormwalled?
JERRY HOLKINS: That's me.
I'm getting a link, so I can share it out.
Our new stuff, if you are into the creativity aspect, we
decided that we wanted to make a reality
show for some reason.
And so we basically held an online
tryout, had 1,000 people.
We winnowed them down to a smaller, more appropriate
competitive number.
And then that became "Strip Search." So it's essentially a
reality show about becoming America's next web comic
superstar for lack of a better term.
It was a lot of fun to film and I hope people enjoy the
show and get to know them like we did.
It was really cool.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Cool.
VERONICA BELMONT: I guess that leaves me.
I'm going to turn on my lower third for this one.
So yeah, "Sword and Laser" is the show and podcast I do with
Tom Merrit.
And we are doing a "Sword and Laser Anthology," which is
actually going to be a published book and also ebook.
So our readers and viewers are going to be
submitting short stories.
All of the rules and guidelines are at
swordandlaser.com/anthology.
We are currently accepting submissions right now
up until May 15.
So we'd love to read your short stories.
They're going to be awesome.
I'm super excited about it.
And also, I have a show on BBC America premiering on March 18
called "Gizmodo--
The Gadget Testers." So hopefully you guys will watch.
It's on the TV.
JERRY HOLKINS: Nice.
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Wow.
VERONICA BELMONT: That's it.
COLIN MCCOMB: So Pat, what are you up to?
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: I'm working on--
yeah, what everyone wants me to work on, Book 3.
COLIN MCCOMB: I'm just thinking, if you need to take
a little break from that, that there's this game coming out
that I'm working on that could--
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah.
And if you want to write the forward to the anthology, I
mean, I'm sure you have plenty of time to do that, too.
COLIN MCCOMB: I understand there's a lot of--
JERRY HOLKINS: Just say who the patron is.
Just say who the patron is.
Just say it.
Or put it in your lower third.
Just do that.
COLIN MCCOMB: OK.
Yeah, we want you to write for "Torment." We want all of you
to write for "Torment," please.
Email us after the show, because you
guys are *** awesome.
Write for "Torment." Let me just put this out here because
you guys are great.
OK, I'm done.
No, I'm not.
Write for "Torment."
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: You know, Veronica tapped me.
I'm flattered.
I can occasionally write a funny forward.
It's a skill I've been developing.
And I'm terribly flattered.
As far as "Torment," the sequel to one of my favorite
games ever, the opportunity to maybe participate in some good
interactive storytelling--
I can't work on Book 3 16 hours a day because I realized
it makes me crazy.
Having a few side projects keeps me normal and sane.
So we'll talk.
COLIN MCCOMB: All right, it's not that many words.
It's not that much work, guys.
Not that much work.
VERONICA BELMONT: But you know, now all the Rothfuss
fans are going to be really mad that anyone is making any
extra work for Pat.
COLIN MCCOMB: No, they're going to join us as well.
VERONICA BELMONT: I thought they were going to rip me a
new one when I interviewed George R. Martin.
Just taking up half an hour of his time, all the comments
were like, now he's never going to finish.
COLIN MCCOMB: All right, I tell you what.
We'll do it this way.
We'll make a stretch goal that Pat Rothfuss
will write for us.
And we'll make another stretch goal a million dollars later
that he won't.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: That--
there's your fundraising opportunity right there.
JERRY HOLKINS: See, that's a game designer
right there, people.
That's how it works.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Work the system.
I actually do have a few other side projects going on.
I'm finishing up a little novella that people will be
seeing sooner rather than later to help tide people over
waiting for Book 3.
That's my current thing that's going on as well as a
follow-up to the princess book that I did a while back that
some of you know about.
JERRY HOLKINS: Nice.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: So now that we've got a little time left,
let us go to some questions that people have asked here.
And this is actually a good one, because it feels like
there is a lot of strides being made towards realism.
The visual realism has gotten very, very strong.
And it says here-- "To what extent should you push realism
and storytelling?"
Let's focus on the realism thing.
Do you think that all of these recent games with the real
gorgeous visual design, do you think that they might be so
realistic that it's easier for us get pulled out?
Because I wouldn't have felt so pissed off at somebody
lifting up an I-beam if it happened in,
like, a Nintendo game.
JERRY HOLKINS: Well, sure.
Or if the Heavy from "Team Fortress 2" had an I-beam,
you'd be like, oh, well, obviously.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Of course.
Yeah.
JERRY HOLKINS: He eats I-beams.
That's not weird.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Thank you for bringing up "Team Fortress
2." That's a great example of the art and the story and the
style meshing beautifully well.
JERRY HOLKINS: Like Valve again, right?
I mean, every time you shot a rocket in that game, you're
making a story.
VERONICA BELMONT: Well, the thing is, the second you said
that, I started thinking about "Left 4 Dead." And I was like,
that's another one with great writing, but also is--
it kind of straddles the line between
believable and fantasy.
But it does it in such a perfect way that you're never
really pulled out of it.
JERRY HOLKINS: That's right.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Yeah.
JERRY HOLKINS: They have realistic characters.
COLIN MCCOMB: It's believable.
JERRY HOLKINS: Yeah, exactly.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: And ultimately, I think that's
where it is.
And that's the secret that fantasy figured out a while
ago is you can have a fantastic world, so long as
you can have believable characters.
And that's the secret.
And I think right now, video games are still very, very
young in terms as a genre.
And so they're having the growing pains that fantasy and
sci-fi had 30, 40 years ago, where it used to be 30, 40
years ago, 50 years ago, you could say,
oh, I've got an idea.
There's a planet and it's got 10 times Earth's gravity.
And you would just write about that world, and that was
enough for a book because the world-building was the draw.
And somebody would go, 10 times gravity?
That's unheard of.
And that was like cool enough.
And then for a while with these video games, it's like,
look at this huge, expansive world.
And you can see the stars, and you can climb a mountain.
And for a while, that was enough because it was cool.
But not anymore.
These games are getting lost in the world, and they're
losing character, and they're losing story as a result.
And all these things that I'm nitpicking, they're really
examples of losing track of story and losing track of
realistic character.
You can have a crazy world so long as you
have a realistic character.
JERRY HOLKINS: Yeah.
But you are a very sophisticated consumer of
narrative and content.
Again, that's the last time I'm going to say it.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: No, it is very true.
JERRY HOLKINS: But I'm saying but that's OK.
I mean, that's where this stuff is coming from.
But you have to remember--
I mean, it's like when you listen to the radio and you
say, where did all the good music go?
You have to understand, man, this stuff is being made.
But if you're going to AAA development,
there are so many locks--
back me up here, Colin.
There are so many barriers to the flow of that type of work.
It makes it very difficult to handle some of the things that
you're talking about.
Especially on a computer, you have to explore the full range
of product and that means trawling Kickstarter.
That means trying to find the next game.
But the games that are going to do it for you, I think are
going to be a different scale.
Here, listen up.
Listen up.
This is what you need to do tonight.
Pat, make ma a promise.
Go get "Kentucky Route Zero."
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: I've never heard of that.
JERRY HOLKINS: This is what I'm talking about.
This conversation will be over.
When you play through "Kentucky Route Zero," you're
going to send me a message, and you're going to say,
sorry, man.
I messed up.
That's on me.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: And so let's get a few more of those for
people like me.
Because honestly, geeks are a sophisticated
and discerning bunch.
And it's unfair to say that they are not.
So let's give some more of the good stuff we've experienced
for the rest of our sophisticates out there of
which, they're the majority.
They're not the minority here.
COLIN MCCOMB: Honestly, I got to say that I get a lot of my
taste from Jerry.
I'm like, man, where can I go find some good stuff?
You know what?
I'll bet "Penny Arcade" can point me to that ***.
I'm not trying to blow you here or anything.
I'm just saying, that's where I go to as my baseline--
JERRY HOLKINS: Do what you want.
COLIN MCCOMB: Later, let's talk.
JERRY HOLKINS: Yeah.
There's a stretch goal.
Yeah.
I would say that for me, right now, I was just in stunned
silence playing through that.
So imagine a video game short story, Pat, where everything
is just so.
These are being made, but you're not going to
find it at the store.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: And you're right.
I need to do now what I do with books.
JERRY HOLKINS: That's right.
You have to come to us.
We can help, help you find people whose tastes you trust.
Because you have a boy, and you have a business, and you
have all this stuff.
You don't have the time to do it.
You really don't.
And that doesn't mean that you're a bad person, which may
also be true.
But it's not because of this.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: And you're right.
And it's silly that it would take somebody telling me to
realize it.
Because honestly, when I was 14, I picked
up a fantasy novel.
If it had a sword in it, I was happy.
Dragon?
Bonus.
JERRY HOLKINS: Yeah.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: But then eventually--
JERRY HOLKINS: Dragon and sword?
Woo.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Then I read 2,000 of them, and I
get tired of it.
And I'm like, we got to do something better than that.
And that was the place I was at when I started
writing my own book.
And now, I've played so many video games because I started
with Infocom.
See, and you guys must have.
Veronica, did you ever--
COLIN MCCOMB: Heck yeah.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: See, it might be a little bit--
it was before her time, I think.
COLIN MCCOMB: OK.
Veronica, you know the Infocom bundle is available for iOS
you can download it from the App Store.
It will seriously be some of the best gaming of your life.
JERRY HOLKINS: But Pat, listen.
There's something else you have to understand.
Now that people call that genre, what we called text
adventures as young people, people call that genre
interactive fiction now.
And it's in a renaissance in a big way.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Really?
JERRY HOLKINS: Yes.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: You're warming my
bitter, old heart here.
JERRY HOLKINS: It's totally there for you.
But I'm saying that it's back in a huge way.
And there's a bunch of different ways to do it.
There's a lot of experimentation with doing the
text adventure interactions right in the browser now as
opposed to with a text parser, which is more traditional.
But trust me, this--
you're going to be overjoyed.
In fact, I would be surprised if you don't end up at the
helm of one of these tools making a little story.
I'd be very surprised.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Oh, man.
JERRY HOLKINS: But again--
but that's just it, man, is that when we see these things
and they're not working out right, we
have to identify them.
That's a must.
But we can't forget.
And you know this better than anybody.
Everybody on this panel knows that we are at the helm now.
So if we see things that we don't like, it's our fault.
You know what I mean?
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: I do.
I do.
JERRY HOLKINS: If we see things that we don't like and
we see that hole, we can't just point at it and expect
the universe to fill it.
It will invariably be wrong.
It will seem untrue to us.
We won't like it.
You see what I mean?
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Yeah.
JERRY HOLKINS: You had to write that book
that did not exist.
I'll be very surprised if after the third "Kingkiller
Chronicle," if you don't end up on this track.
I would be shocked.
Shocked.
VERONICA BELMONT: I say we all start a gaming company.
Make a pact now.
After the third "Kingkiller Chronicle" book--
JERRY HOLKINS: That's right.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: I just got a tingle.
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh, that's a good thing.
JERRY HOLKINS: But that's it, man.
You're going to find this stuff.
It's just right around the edge of
where you've been looking.
That's all.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: That's cool.
There's a lot of gaming out there that I enjoy so much.
And I guess it's just--
it is the same thing that hits me when I read a story and
everything is perfect.
Or like you're eating a sandwich, and you hit that
grain of sand.
And you're like, oh, there's just no way to enjoy the
sandwich anymore.
JERRY HOLKINS: You can't be a passive participant.
That's your failing, Pat.
Eat your food.
COLIN MCCOMB: Somebody worked very hard to make that food.
Get past the grain of sand and swallow it.
Now, if the whole sand is made of sand and it's technically a
sandwich, then-- *** it.
Toss it out and eat a new sandwich.
But a couple of small things should not put you off of
something new.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: That's true.
That's true.
And they're not all deal-breakers.
And I should say, dear "Skyrim," yes, I loved you.
And that's why I felt betrayed.
"Far Cry," I have been enjoying you.
It's been fun, but it's not you, it's me.
JERRY HOLKINS: Pat, what kind of computer do you have?
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Enough to play pretty much
anything if I want to.
It's IBM, is that what you're asking?
JERRY HOLKINS: Yeah.
Go grab the "Witcher 2."
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: I've heard about that.
I've heard good things about it, but I
haven't had a chance.
JERRY HOLKINS: That's another situation where everybody's in
the same room.
You know what I mean?
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Yeah.
OK.
You realize that you are going to draw down the thunder way
more than trying to bring me into to "Torment." You've
given me games to play.
It's like here's a delicious room full of smack.
You can just try a little bit.
COLIN MCCOMB: Yes, thank you.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: OK, let's do one or two
more questions here.
"It seems like when the story gets in the way of game play,
what are you going to do?" And I think the question there is,
what do we think is more important, game play or story,
If you had to pick?
COLIN MCCOMB: It's a false dichotomy.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: It is.
JERRY HOLKINS: Yeah.
That's a lie.
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah, you don't have to choose.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: It is.
COLIN MCCOMB: A good game design will integrate the
story into it fluidly and flawlessly.
And a good story will provide an outgrowth of game play.
And if one gets in the way of the other,
then something's broken.
JERRY HOLKINS: Or will provide cover, narrative cover for the
failings elsewhere.
And that's OK, too.
COLIN MCCOMB: Everybody loved the combat--
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh, so it was a horrible knee accident
that made it so I can't jump up on 2-foot-tall elements at
a warehouse.
JERRY HOLKINS: Malnourished.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: That's what story does for you.
Story is the cheapest contrivance.
It allows you to batch some of these technological errors.
Think of the movie "Harvey." Where it's like, if they made
that movie now, they'd put a $10,000 CGI rabbit in the end.
But they couldn't back then.
And so they had to rely on script and actor.
And as a result, that script and that actor
had to be top notch.
I'm saying the same thing again and again here.
Somebody mentioned "Journey." Is that a game?
Have any of you played that?
JERRY HOLKINS: Yes.
Yeah.
COLIN MCCOMB: Thoughts?
I haven't played it, so I can't comment.
JERRY HOLKINS: That's great.
The fact that you haven't played it and that, indeed,
you only know that it's called "Journey" means that you are
in the best position to experience it.
So I would recommend that you go get it.
Because again, like your position as a super busy
person that is on the periphery of this means that
you are going to enjoy it in the best way.
VERONICA BELMONT: Do you have a PlayStation?
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: I'm not much of a consoler.
JERRY HOLKINS: Put it in your Twitter.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Yeah, or a Twitterer yet.
VERONICA BELMONT: I'll get you one.
I'll send you one.
You can play "Journey" on it.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: I don't have a smartphone either yet.
This is my phone.
JERRY HOLKINS: Oh my god.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Yeah.
VERONICA BELMONT: How are we friends?
JERRY HOLKINS: You're more beast than man.
It's like you held up a stick.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: I'm just talking--
VERONICA BELMONT: To be fair, he did teach me how to put air
in my tires.
JERRY HOLKINS: Well, there we go.
VERONICA BELMONT: I did not have that life skill--
JERRY HOLKINS: You held up a dowsing rod--
VERONICA BELMONT: --until very recently.
I was like, what does this thing do?
What do these numbers mean?
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: One last one here that's popped up.
We've talked a few times about these games with
less than AAA graphics.
I've heard a few of you say, oh, it's not this, but it's a
really great game.
The game play is good.
Well, it doesn't look that great, but
does that mean that--
do you think it's fair to say that some of the focus should
come off of the graphics?
It says here--
How much do you think graphics should have-- how much
importance do you think it should have in a game?"
JERRY HOLKINS: We need to distinguish between
graphics and art.
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah.
And also, because I mean, a game can be stylized in a
certain way that doesn't necessarily
make it look realistic.
But yet, it looks amazing.
So I think it just depends on what it's going for.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Yeah.
And I think that there is kind of--
because we can now do this hyperrealism thing, that is so
valued because it was so impossible for so long that--
JERRY HOLKINS: Novel.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Like what Pixar did with "The
Incredibles." They could have done something more realistic,
and it would have been totally wrong for the movie.
JERRY HOLKINS: Exactly.
COLIN MCCOMB: Right.
It would have been "The Polar Express."
JERRY HOLKINS: That's the art piece.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Yeah.
So maybe--
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh, "Polar Express."
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Oh, yeah.
Yeah, that's the other side of--
COLIN MCCOMB: Speaking of uncanny valley, yeah.
VERONICA BELMONT: The horror.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Yeah.
VERONICA BELMONT: I mean, you understand the term and then
you see "Polar Express." And then you get it--
COLIN MCCOMB: You know.
VERONICA BELMONT: --like deeply get it forever.
JERRY HOLKINS: In your intestines.
VERONICA BELMONT: Forever.
Forever.
You just know.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Yeah.
So any other last comments?
How about this-- since we were talking about--
for the sophisticates who maybe are like me that are
Luddites who live in caves on heaps of furs, where would you
go to seek out quality games?
Because all of the major review sites are rife with
toadying and barrel rolling.
So I know if I go to Yahtzee, he's going to cuss everybody
out and tell me the truth.
I love those reviews.
But where else can we go that will be honest--
"Penny Arcade," obviously.
JERRY HOLKINS: But I don't update as much
as people need either.
VERONICA BELMONT: You know what it is?
JERRY HOLKINS: That schedule's ancient.
I have to tell you, so essentially you have to find
people that you trust.
You should look up TotalBiscuit.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: I've never heard of that.
JERRY HOLKINS: Make it happen.
VERONICA BELMONT: For me, it's--
what are your friends playing?
What do they like right now?
Because I think that's beyond any reviewer telling you
what's good, beyond anything that you read on a magazine or
on a blog, it's like, if your friends like it, there's a
good chance that you'll probably get a
kick out of it, too.
I love Yahtzee.
I am obsessed with his reviews.
But the problem is, is that sometimes I like a game just
because it's fun.
And I don't care about half the stuff that he's
complaining about.
And I'm like, OK, I understand what you're saying, but that
did not diminish my enjoyment of this game.
So it's like, you just have to kind of know what you like,
talk to your friends about what they like.
And you can kind of find something in the middle there
that's going to amuse you.
COLIN MCCOMB: Yeah, you might know some gamer friends, Pat.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: A few.
Is this the sort of thing that gets talked
about on the Twitters?
VERONICA BELMONT: Yes.
JERRY HOLKINS: On the web.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: If I was on the Twit, then people could
tell me about the gamings?
COLIN MCCOMB: I couldn't tell you.
JERRY HOLKINS: That's the trouble.
I don't know if you have a data problem.
That sounded like Dubstep.
I don't know what's happening on your site.
But yes, people do occasionally discuss video
games on Twitter.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: OK.
That might be enough to get me on.
COLIN MCCOMB: I don't know if it's necessarily the best use
of your time.
JERRY HOLKINS: No.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Yeah.
So any closing comments from our esteemed panel here?
JERRY HOLKINS: Well here, let me tell you this much, Pat.
Can I call you Pat?
Listen--
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Yeah, we're good.
JERRY HOLKINS: We haven't even scratched the surface of this
topic, man.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: I know.
JERRY HOLKINS: Listen, so what we should do is we should just
do it once a quarter.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: OK.
That would be great.
JERRY HOLKINS: Get the same crew back.
We've already established a baseline.
Colin's going to have really interesting stuff to tell us
after his Kickstarters.
This is the inaugural meeting of this troop.
We should move forward with the expectation that we'll
come back in and touch base with everybody.
COLIN MCCOMB: I would just like to point out that in
month's time, I might be known as the guy who couldn't get a
Kickstarter to launch.
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh, you will.
COLIN MCCOMB: I know.
We're just all staying up late tonight going oh, god.
JERRY HOLKINS: It's so scary.
VERONICA BELMONT: Push the button.
Push the button.
JERRY HOLKINS: It's so scary.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Dude, I am going to bring all of my power
to bear, for whatever that is worth.
I will make it happen with the sheer force of my brain.
COLIN MCCOMB: Well, then we're good.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: But actually, would people be
willing to come back in a couple of months, and we will
do-- because this has been a great talk.
I've really loved it.
And so much happens in a couple of months.
JERRY HOLKINS: Oh, yeah.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Different games come out, different
experiences.
And then, that will allow us to focus down--
because this is such a huge topic.
I would like to delve into some of the particulars,
different types of games.
Can we do that?
Can I bring you all back?
JERRY HOLKINS: Yes.
VERONICA BELMONT: Absolutely.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: That just give me another tingle.
VERONICA BELMONT: That's what we're all here for, giving you
the tingles.
Don't know what that means.
PATRICK ROTHFUSS: Well, great.
Thank you all so much for coming.
Thank you everyone for tuning in to "Story Board." And we,
as in this entire group, will see you fairly shortly.