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WE HAVE DONE OUR PRESENTING. WE'RE ABOUT AN HOUR IN.
NOW IT'S YOUR TURN TO ASK QUESTIONS, PROVIDE YOUR
PERSPECTIVE, DISCUSS BEST PRACTICES, ANYTHING THAT'S
WORKED FOR YOUR OFFICE OR YOUR PROJECT THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SHARE.
SO WE, AS USUAL, HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS WE'RE GOING TO START WITH
THAT WE'VE GOTTEN FROM YOU OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF MONTHS.
AND DON'T FORGET YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR FROM THREE CONTRACTORS
AFTER THE Q&A PERIOD. SO BE SURE TO STICK AROUND FOR
THAT BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED IN THAT. THE FIRST QUESTION IS:...
I THINK THIS ONE ESPECIALLY IS FOR CINDY. HOW DO WE DEAL WITH POOR
PERFORMING CONTRACTORS AND WHAT
CAN WE DO WHEN THEY'RE THIRD-PARTY CONTRACTORS.
CHRIS, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE HEARD THESE QUESTIONS MUCH YET.
SO DO YOU WANT TO START?
>> C. KLEINHOLZ: I'M GOING TO START. JUST LIKE I TALKED ABOUT, WE DO
HAVE A FEW DIRECT OPTIONS IN THE DIRECT CONTRACTING PROCESS.
FIRST, DOCUMENT ALL THE FACTS. TALK WITH YOUR CONTRACTOR.
AND IF NECESSARY, GET YOUR CONTRACTING OFFICER INVOLVED
BECAUSE THERE ARE A FEW CONTRACTUAL WAYS THAT WE CAN
NUDGE THE CONTRACTING OFFICER OR... OR THE CONTRACTOR ALONG.
IF THAT DOESN'T REMEDY IT, THEN
WE CAN GO FOR A LITTLE BIT MORE AGGRESSIVE SOLUTION.
>> C. HUMPHREY: OKAY.
>> M. COBBS: I'LL SPEAK TO THAT THIRD-PARTY ASPECT.
SO IN THIRD-PARTY CONTRACTS, THE CONTRACT IS HELD BETWEEN
THE PROPONENT AND THE CONTRACTOR. SO THE BLM DOESN'T REALLY HAVE
A FORMAL MECHANISM FOR DRIVING OR RESPONDING TO PERFORMANCE ISSUES.
SO, REALLY, THE ONLY REMEDY FOR US IS TO WORK WITH THE
PROPONENT TO SEE IF THEY CAN LEVERAGE THE CONTRACTOR AND IT
REALLY UNDERSCORES THE IMPORTANCE OF MAINTAINING
FREQUENT COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE CONTRACTORS THROUGHOUT,
HAVING A STRONG STATEMENT OF WORK, AND IF ALL ELSE FAILS,
HOPEFULLY YOU'VE DEVELOPED A MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING, AN
MOU, WITH THE PROPONENT THAT ALLOWS FOR SOME SORT OF DISPUTE RESOLUTION.
DISPUTE COULD EVEN GO SO FAR AS TO INCLUDE PERFORMANCE ISSUES
WITH THE CONTRACTOR THAT THEY'VE HIRED.
>> C. HUMPHREY: CHRIS, DO YOU WANT TO ADD ANYTHING TO THAT OR...
>> C. CARLTON: SURE. SO AS FAR AS POOR PERFORMANCE,
I GUESS I COME BACK TO THE QUESTION WE'VE ASKED IN THE
PAST BROADCASTS... IS IT REALLY POOR PERFORMANCE?
TAKE A LOOK AT THE STATEMENT OF WORK.
WHAT WERE THE EXPECTATIONS? THE FACT IT'S NOT PRESENTED IN
A WAY WE LIKE OR MAYBE IN THE MANNER OR STYLE WE LIKE DOESN'T
NECESSARILY MEAN THAT WE CAN SAY IT'S POOR PERFORMANCE IF
THEY MET THE TERMS OF THE CONTRACT. MAYBE... LET'S BE SURE IT
WASN'T US NOT ARTICULATING WHAT WE WANTED TO SEE FIRST.
AND THEN IF THAT IS THE CASE, AND IT WAS PRETTY CLEAR IN THE
STATEMENT OF WORK, THEN DEFINITELY GO FORWARD AND SAY,
WE MISSED THE BAR, AND WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO TO FIX IT?
>> C. HUMPHREY: OKAY. AS YOU ARE STILL GATHERING YOUR
THOUGHTS OUT IN THE FIELD, WE'LL CATCH ANOTHER QUESTION.
I'M NOT SURE WHERE THESE ARE FROM BECAUSE WE GOT THESE FROM,
LIKE I SAID, A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO WHEN YOU ASKED US THESE.
UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES WOULD WE TERMINATE A CONTRACT?
AND THIS ONE IS PROBABLY CINDY.
>> C. KLEINHOLZ: YEP. WELL, CATHY, AND I THINK I'VE
TALKED TO CHRIS AND MOLLY ABOUT THIS QUITE A BIT, IDEALLY
TERMINATION IS THE LAST RESORT.
THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF TERMINATION.
THERE'S TERMINATION FOR DEFAULT, WHICH IS ERROR ON THE
CONTRACTOR OR POOR PERFORMANCE OR NOT MEETING SCHEDULES OR...
THERE'S A FEW OTHER THINGS FINANCIALLY THAT FALL INTO THAT.
THE OTHER TYPE IS FOR CONVENIENCE.
THE GOVERNMENT HAS A LOT OF LEEWAY IN THAT ONE.
BUT ULTIMATELY, IN MY CAREER, I'VE ONLY TERMINATED TWO
CONTRACTS, AND THAT WAS USUALLY MUTUALLY AGREED UPON BY THE
GOVERNMENT AND THE CONTRACTOR TO WHERE IT WAS A BENEFIT TO
THE CONTRACTOR DUE TO THEY MAYBE OVEREXTENDED THEMSELVES
OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, OR BACK TO THE GOVERNMENT, WE JUST
DIDN'T NEED THAT SERVICE ANY LONGER. WE THOUGHT WE DID.
WE DON'T HAVE THE CRYSTAL BALL.
SO WE JUST SAID, LET'S STOP RIGHT NOW. NO HARM, NO FOUL.
>> C. HUMPHREY: DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD TO THAT, MOLLY
OR CHRIS DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS? NO? OKAY.
KIND OF ALONG THOSE SAME LINES, AND THIS MIGHT BE FAIRLY
APPROPRIATE FOR WHAT WE'RE GOING THROUGH NOW WITH THE
SEQUESTRATION, THE QUESTION IS: HOW DO YOU EFFECTIVELY MOTHBALL
A CONTRACT SO THAT IT CAN BE PICKED UP AGAIN AT A LATER DATE?
AND FIRST IF YOU COULD DEFINE WHAT MOTHBALL IS.
>> M. COBBS: WE'VE HEARD THIS QUESTION A LOT KIND OF AROUND
THE WATER COOLER IN OUR OFFICES. WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO SUCH
AND SUCH PROJECT IF THE BUDGET
IS CUT OR IF WE CAN'T HIRE SUMMER SEASONALS.
SO MOTHBALLING IS KIND OF THIS IDEA OF PUTTING A PROJECT ON
HOLD AND JUST LETTING IT SIT KIND OF IN A HOLDING PATTERN
INDEFINITELY UNTIL WE HAVE
EITHER THE BUDGET OR THE STAFF TO FINISH IT OFF.
SO IF YOU'RE FACED WITH HAVING TO MOTHBALL A PROJECT THERE ARE
TWO TIPS I WOULD RECOMMEND. ONE IS LOOK FOR THE NEXT MOST
LOGICAL POINT IN YOUR PROJECT. LIKE, WHAT'S A LOGICAL
CONCLUSION AT WHICH POINT TO MOTHBALL.
IF YOU'RE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF ALTERNATIVES DEVELOPMENT,
MAYBE YOU WANT TO SEE THE ALTERNATIVES DEVELOPMENT
THROUGH TO THE END OF THAT TASK
AND THEN KIND OF CAN IT AT THAT POINT.
SO LOOK FOR A LOGICAL POINT IN WHICH TO MOTHBALL.
THE SECOND TIP I WOULD OFFER ON
THIS, AND IT'S SIMILAR TO WHAT WE DISCUSSED WITH THE
ADMINISTRATIVE RECORD, IS TO CREATE A READ ME FILE.
IF YOU THINK YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PUT A PROJECT ON HOLD,
IT WOULD REALLY BEHOOVE YOU AS PROJECT MANAGER OR SOMEONE WHO
HAS BEEN CLOSELY INVOLVED WITH THE PROJECT TO DEVELOP SOME
SORT OF BRIEF MEMO BASICALLY EXPLAINING WHAT'S BEEN
COMPLETED TO DATE, WHAT ARE THE CRITICAL TASKS THAT REMAIN, IS
THERE ANYTHING STILL PENDING YOU COULDN'T RESOLVE AT THE
TIME YOU HAD TO MOTHBALL IT? JUST KIND OF A... BEST WAY TO
DESCRIBE IT IS THAT MEMO SO THAT TWO YEARS FROM NOW WHEN
SOMEBODY ELSE PICKS UP THE PROJECT THEY GET A CLEAR
PICTURE OF WHERE YOU WERE AT THE TIME THE PROJECT WENT ON HOLD.
>> C. KLEINHOLZ: THAT'S AGOOD ANSWER. I'M GOING TO ADD SOME CAVEATS TO THAT, CATHY.
FIRST OF ALL, I THINK IT'S SITUATIONAL. THERE'S A LOT OF REASONS THAT
WE COULD GET TO THE MOTHBALL POINT. I TRY NOT TO GET THERE BECAUSE
THERE'S... ON THE CONTRACTOR'S SIDE THEY COULD ACTUALLY CHARGE
US FOR WORK THAT THEY'VE ANTICIPATED, PEOPLE THEY'VE
HIRED, A FEW FINANCIAL ISSUES COULD ARISE.
IF WE NEED TO DO THAT, ONCE AGAIN, I THINK GOOD
COMMUNICATION WITH THE CONTRACTOR.
BECAUSE THEY KNOW. THEY READ THE NEWS.
THEY'RE WELL AWARE OF WE MAY NOT HAVE THE MONEY OR THE FUNDS
TO EITHER COMPLETE THE PROJECT OR, REALLY, ADD TO IT AS WE
ANTICIPATED TO DO IT PERFECTLY
OR ALL THE WAY THROUGH. SO JUST COMMUNICATION.
KEEP THE LINES OPEN. THINGS LIKE THAT.
>> M. COBBS: ONE FINAL MINOR POINT ON THIS, IT'S RELEVANT TO
WHAT WE DISCUSS WITH THE ADMINISTRATIVE RECORD, IF YOU
ARE FACED WITH HAVING TO MOTHBALL A PROJECT AND WORKING
WITH A CONTRACTOR, MAKE SURE YOU GET ALL OF THE RECORDS THAT
HAVE BEEN GENERATED HE UP TO THAT POINT BEFORE YOU PUT THAT
CONTRACT ON HOLD, BEFORE YOU PUT IT... BEFORE YOU MAKE IT DORMANT.
>> C. KLEINHOLZ: THAT'S A GOOD POINT, BECAUSE WE'VE PAID
FOR THOSE RECORDS TO THAT POINT, AND THE GOVERNMENT HAS
THE OWNERSHIP TO THOSE.
>> C. HUMPHREY: IS THERE ANYTHING YOU WANT TO ADD, CHRIS, TO THAT?
>> C. CARLTON: YEAH, I WOULD LIKE TO JUST REALLY QUICKLY ADD
ON TO WHAT MOLLY WAS SAYING. ONE OF THE THINGS IT MAY BE
USEFUL TO THINK ABOUT IS DON'T ASSUME THAT THE TEAM THAT'S
WORKING ON IT NOW WILL BE THE ONE TO PICK IT UP IN THE
FUTURE, AND DON'T ASSUME... JUST KIND OF DON'T ASSUME IT
WILL GO FORWARD THE WAY YOU MIGHT THINK IT WILL.
PLAN FOR IT TO BE PRETTY MUCH EASY TO PICK UP BY ANYONE AT
ANY TIME, AND MAYBE CONSIDER HAVING SOME KIND OF A REVIEW OR
SIGN-OFF BY WHATEVER THE NEXT LEVEL OF REVIEW, MANAGEMENT
STATE OFFICE, WASHINGTON, WHATEVER IT IS, KIND OF A
PRELIMINARY REVIEW TO PUT IN WRITING SO WHEN YOU PICK IT UP
YOU KNOW EVERYBODY IN THE CHAIN HAD AGREED THAT WE DID A GOOD
ENOUGH JOB TO THIS POINT SO NOW WE CAN JUST PICK UP AND MOVE
FORWARD AND NOT HAVE TO STEP BACK A FEW STEPS BEFORE CONTINUING.
>> C. HUMPHREY: CINDY, I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THIS.
LET'S SAY YOU DO MOTHBALL A PROJECT AND IT'S BEEN WHATEVER
MONTHS, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YEARS, AND THEN YOU WANT TO
START IT UP AGAIN, DO YOU HAVE TO DEVELOP A WHOLE NEW CONTRACT?
>> C. KLEINHOLZ: THAT'S YET TO BE SEEN, CATHY.
WE DON'T HAVE REAL CLEAR DIRECTION. I THINK IT'S COMMUNICATION WITH
YOUR CONTRACTOR WHAT THEY CAN FORECAST.
RIGHT NOW IF IT'S BASED ON OUR CURRENT SCENARIOS, WE DON'T
HAVE REAL GOOD DIRECTION ON HOW TO STOP AND RESTART SOMETHING.
BECAUSE THEN IT GETS INTO
APPROPRIATION LAW ISSUES OF HOW THE MONEY FLOWS.
>> C. HUMPHREY: RIGHT. OKAY.
>> C. KLEINHOLZ: GOOD QUESTION.
>> C. HUMPHREY: ALL RIGHT. TO BE CONTINUED. SO JUST IN CASE ANYBODY IS
STILL WATCHING OUT THERE, BECAUSE YOU'RE ALL SO QUIET, WE
ONLY HAVE TWO MORE QUESTIONS THAT WE GATHERED FROM ALL THE
QUESTIONS YOU'VE ASKED US IN THE PAST, SO IF WE DON'T HEAR
ANYBODY, I'M GOING TO ASSUME WE HAVE COVERED EVERYTHING SO
CLEARLY THAT YOU HAVE NO
QUESTIONS, WHICH I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S THE CASE.
BUT WE'LL GO THROUGH THESE TWO QUESTIONS, AND IF THERE ISN'T
ANYTHING ELSE, EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE PLENTY OF TIME, WE WILL
JUST MOVE TO OUR CONTRACTORS THAT WE HAVE.
SO YOU HAVE A FEW MORE MINUTES TO CHIME IN.
ALL RIGHTY. SO THE NEXT QUESTION WE HAVE:
AFTER ALL PARTIES FEEL THE CONTRACTED DOCUMENT IS
COMPLETE, WHAT LEVERAGE CAN THE BLM USE TO MAKE SURE WE RECEIVE
ALL THE DELIVERABLES, LIKE THE METADATA FOR THE THE RECORD?
>> C. KLEINHOLZ: I'M GOING TO LET CHRIS START WITH THAT ONE.
>> C. HUMPHREY: DID YOU HEAR THAT ONE, CHRIS?
>> C. CARLTON: WHAT LEVERAGE DO WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT
WE'VE GOT ALL OF THE DOCUMENTS WE NEED?
>> C. HUMPHREY: YES, ALL THE DELIVERABLES.
>> C. CARLTON: YOU KNOW, I GUESS IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO
AS A COR I'M THE ONE CERTIFYING AND SAYING THAT WE'VE RECEIVED
THE SERVICES WE WERE SUPPOSED TO HAVE RECEIVED, AND SO BEFORE
SIGNING THAT INVOICE, ONE OF MY QUESTIONS TO THE TEAM IS DID WE
GET EVERYTHING WE WERE SUPPOSED TO GET?
OTHER THAN THAT, MAKE SURE THAT
IT'S CLEARLY SPELLED OUT IN THE CONTRACT.
MAKE SURE THE STATEMENT OF WORK IS REASONABLE AND WE ARTICULATE
WHAT WE WANT AND DO THAT WELL AHEAD OF TIME.
DON'T WAIT UNTIL CONTRACT CLOSE-OUT TO SUDDENLY SAY, OH,
I DIDN'T KNOW, BUT WE REALLY WANT X, Y AND Z.
I THINK IT'S IN OUR BEST INTEREST TO BE CLEAR UP FRONT
ALL ALONG ABOUT WHAT X, Y AND Z
ARE GOING TO BE AND TO PERIODICALLY REMIND THE
CONTRACTOR THAT, HEY, BEFORE WE CLOSE THIS OUT WE'RE GOING TO
NEED COPIES OF ALL THIS STUFF. WHAT FORMAT ARE WE GETTING THEM IN?
ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS AHEAD OF TIME SO IT DOESN'T BECOME A
BACK AND FORTH AS WE ARE TRYING TO GET THE FINAL INVOICE PAID.
>> C. HUMPHREY: I KNOW ONE THING I HAVE DONE, YOU KIND OF
SAID THIS, CHRIS, BUT I WON'T SIGN OFF ON THE INVOICE UNLESS
I HAVE EVERYTHING, AND WE ALSO STRUCTURE THE PAYMENT SO THAT
THE BULK OF THE PAYMENT COMES TOWARDS THE END SO THAT THEY
HAVE MORE INCENTIVE TO GET
EVERYTHING DONE AND GET US ALL THE DOCUMENTS.
>> C. KLEINHOLZ: GOOD POINT, CATHY. DEPENDING ON HOW YOU YOUR
CONTRACT IS STRUCTURED, WE CAN WITHHOLD PAYMENT.
WE CAN DO A FEW CREATIVE THINGS AT THE END, BUT I THINK IN THIS
INDUSTRY I'VE FOUND THAT MOST ALL CONTRACTORS WANT TO GET
THIS RIGHT, BECAUSE IT IMPACTS THEM FOR THE FUTURE, AND IT
IMPACTS THE ENVIRONMENT.
>> C. HUMPHREY: THANKS, KIM. WE GOT A FAX FROM KIM AND SHE
HAS A COMMENT, MORE THAN A QUESTION. SHE SAYS: IT'S EXCELLENT TO
KNOW THE FLEXIBILITY WITH CONTRACT MODIFICATIONS AND
INHERENTLY PLANNING PROCESSES ARE ITERATIVE AND DYNAMIC AND
WE CAN ANTICIPATE MANY ISSUES AND ADDRESS IN THE STATEMENT OF
WORK, BUT INEVITABLY UNEXPECTED ISSUES MAY ARISE, AS WE ALL
KNOW THAT HAVE WORKED ON PLANNING DOCUMENTS, AND BEING
ABLE TO WORK WITH THE CONTRACTING OFFICER TO ADDRESS
THESE SITUATIONS AND STILL STAY ON TRACK IS CRITICAL.
SO, YES, THAT'S A GOOD COMMENT, KIM. THANK YOU.
SO OUR LAST QUESTION IS... NOBODY ELSE HAD ANYTHING TO ADD?
WHAT DOES THE BLM CONSIDER APPROPRIATE PENALTIES OR
CONSEQUENCES FOR NON CONFORMANCE
TO THE CONTRACT SCHEDULE AND DEADLINES?
WHO WANTS TO START WITH THIS ONE?
>> C. KLEINHOLZ: I'LL TAKE THIS ONE FIRST.
TO MY KNOWLEDGE, THERE IS NO SET PENALTIES.
IF YOU WRITE YOUR CONTRACT A CERTAIN WAY, THEN THERE IS A
LITTLE BIT MORE... WE CAN INPUT A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE, LIKE,
SAY, IF WE'RE NOT HAPPY WITH IT WE CUT 10%.
YOU KNOW, IT CAN EITHER BE THE
LAST YEAR, THE LAST WHATEVER PORTION.
BUT TO MANY KNOWLEDGE, THERE'S NOT A SET PENALTY.
THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT WE HAVE LATITUDE TO DO, BUT ONCE
AGAIN, I WANT TO STRESS THAT MAKE SURE THAT OUR DUCKS ARE IN
A ROW, BECAUSE WHEN YOU START WITHHOLDING MONEY FROM A
PROFIT-DRIVEN COMPANY, THEY'RE GOING TO BRING OUT THEIR BIG
GUNS, AND THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE EVERY E-MAIL, EVERYTHING LAID
OUT THERE, AND THEY'RE GOING TO
SHOW THAT THEY ATTEMPTED TO MAKE IT RIGHT.
SO, WE DO HAVE SOME HIDDEN WAYS TO GET THEIR ATTENTION.
>> C. HUMPHREY: I KNOW FROM MY EXPERIENCES, YOU WERE
ALLUDING TO IT, I HAVE NEVER SEEN IT WHERE IT'S ALWAYS
PURELY THE CONTRACTOR'S FAULT. A LOT OF TIMES IT'S PARTIALLY
OUR FAULT WHY THE SCHEDULES ARE DELAYED AND SITUATIONS, AND
LIKE KIM WAS SAYING, A LOT OF
THESE CONTRACTS ARE SO COMPLICATED WITH PLANNING
PROCESSES, THINGS WE CAN'T ANTICIPATE.
SO WOULD YOU SUGGEST THAT WE
JUST MODIFY THE CONTRACT AND MODIFY THE DATE?
>> C. KLEINHOLZ: USUALLY IT'S A MATTER OF GETTING ONE BACK ON
TRACK TO THE SCHEDULED POINT OF... DRAW A LINE IN THE SAND
IS HOW I LIKE TO SAY IT, CATHY.
THAT WAS THE PAST. WE ALL KNOW OUR ROLES NOW.
LET'S MOVE FORWARD. I'M GOING TO SAY THAT USUALLY WORKS.
>> C. HUMPHREY: CHRIS OR MOLLY, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD TO THAT?
>> C. CARLTON: SURE. I THINK WHAT CINDY SAID IS DEAD
ON ABOUT DRAWING A LINE IN THE SAND.
THINK OF THE AMOUNT OF WORK YOU PUT INTO GETTING THE CONTRACT
PUT TOGETHER, GETTING THE STATEMENT OF WORK WRITTEN, ALL
OF THE TIME AND EFFORT THAT WENT INTO BRINGING THIS
CONTRACTOR ON BOARD AND IF IT'S A FOUR TO FIVE-YEAR RMP
CONTRACT, I WOULD BE HESITANT TO TAKE ANY DRAWING LINES IN
THE SAND ACTION I DIDN'T HAVE TO. I THINK MY FIRST THING WOULD BE
TO TRY TO RESOLVE IT WORKING WITH THE CONTRACTOR, WHAT WERE
THOSE EXPECTATIONS. TO ME, KIND OF THE PUNISHMENT
TYPE SITUATION OR THE PENALTY TYPE SITUATION REALLY IS THE LAST RESORT.
I KNOW AS CINDY MENTIONED, PENALTY COSTS AND LIQUIDATED
DAMAGES ARE TYPICALLY NOT ALLOWED IN CONTRACTS, AND SO WE
DON'T SEE THOSE, BUT IT'S REALLY REWORK OR GETTING THE
TEAM TOGETHER TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM MORE THAN GETTING INTO
A SITUATION WHERE IT'S JUST PUNISHMENT-ORIENTED.
I THINK WE ALL AGREE WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE
CONTRACTING PROCESS AGAIN IF WE CAN AVOID IT.