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welcome back to a conversation on human trafficking in Florida
list for this next segment over the shower are Zack use
who is the deputy with the Marion County Sheriff's Office and
social justice advocate Frank Williams is a prosecutor with the US Attorney's
Office
jeannie thinker is the chief assistant state attorney with the eighth Judicial
Circuit
and Elisabeth rejoins us for this discussion as well
we're going to be hearing now from Trudy Novicki who was also featured in the
Stolen Ones
she is the author of the state's Safe Harbor Act it failed three times in
Tallahassee
and was passed in January of 2012 The two biggest
two biggest obstacles to getting
passed were opposition from law enforcement on the
office called decriminalizing prostitution and
funding, funding.
so even though we wrote everywhere in the statute
to take them to a safe house if available
There was a fear there was going to create
a additional drain on the state coffers
so anyway, we inserted it into the child welfare
legislation and tried
to remove the children from a criminal statute
to say if you were under
18-- you had to be 18 or over to commit the crime of prostitution
but that never passed
we were successful in getting the safe harbor
legislation overlaid in creating the system of short term and long term
safehouses
within the statue, we were successful in expanding the definition
of child *** abuse to include
children involved in prostitution
but we were not successful in
decriminalizing child prostitution and the state of Florida
and Frank, I'll begin with you, She talks about the
those two big issues the opposition to decriminalizing
prostitution and also to the funding
question what about the decriminalization issue
can that safe harbor act be expanded and should it be?
Well it's a tough question, I can speak from the Federal
on the federal law, not with respect to the the state law safe harbor
what I can tell you is that some things about the the current law
as it stands is that if you have a child you know a person under the age of 18
you don't have to have an element of what's called force fraud or coercion
in order for them to be commercially sexually exploited
but for some reason when they reach the age of 18 there's a magical change
they're no longer a victim
suddenly they become a defendant and that that's an anomaly in the lawn I
think that's another
point of confusion with law enforcement as they don't want the
that's an area we can further educate them as
that vast majority of the the women and men over the age of 18
actually were came into this life
when they were children and they and they remain victims throughout their
lifetime
so that that's that's an area that I think we especially need to work with
law enforcement on
raising their their level of awareness and Jenny what are your thoughts on that?
well I have to agree with Frank on that. Also the idea that
behavior is not accepted
into law enforcement with you because law enforcement is called
out to undo a ssituation that's not acceptable to the community
without truly understand what the issues are
without really understanding that
these young women who are actually
prostituting themselves as adult were at one time
victims a horrific terrible
situation typically in the families in the area without understanding that
knowing that they have to solve a problem I think that it's difficult for
them not to take
a *** into custody the community that
says "Oh you cleaned up South Main Street or you cleaned up that
so and so street, the
law enforcement agency look likes they're doing their job because
it something "has to be done". and I turn to you to respond to that.
I honestly I mean I I think what my
I don't specifically do what's called a john reverse
you know we go after the demand side or any those things what what I can tell
you is it monitoring social media and watching when
you know the Ocala star-banner puts it had there that you know we did
you know we arrested 30 people on a john reverse, and the public doesn't care
why are you doing this why are you spending my tax dollars on a John
reverse
why are you doing this you know we don't see the typical traditional street
prostitution at least in my area
it saw it it's all going digital Whether it's back page
danger Craigslist or USA sex guide or
hero Sir or any number of sites sows were seeing some of that transfer
so it's not out of public view as much as it used to be
unless you well it's not uncommon people know where to look
it hasn't gone anywhere it's just move what form
so I mean we can you can you can find that that track now which is digital
in 30 seconds or less from a smartphone right in this room
so some of that occurs pretty regularly
in what's also interesting about the victims
who are also considered defended prostitutes
very interesting fact that I'm sure that you can speak on this as well
is that many times they don't want
to be helped. They're not at a point
in their process where they feel like they can
take on services and change their lives as a prosecutor that actually
has to take their testimony have to explain to them what goes on to continue
or prosecution
exportation case, many times I hear the response
I don't want to do that, I don't want to testify you
can't help me I just wanna go back where I came from
leave me alone so there's a there's a real disconnect between
the women themselves identifying themselves as victims
and there's a a learning curve there I think we work we try to work it
in the eighth circuit we try to offer services to our victim advocacy program
to educate even that victim
to what testifying to a past event
may do to help the community and help other women
it's a it's a sales pitch
It's very similar, it's the power control wheel for women
very similar to domestic violence. If you were raised in
such a high level of dysfunction you know every client that we've worked with
has been *** abused as young as 3,4, 5 years old, abused horrifically for years.
runaway within 48 hours, eighty percent are taken into them
or some form of the sex trade at that young age
under the belief that "Oh, I finally found someone that's going to take care of me"
and they all say I thought he was my boyfriend or I thought
finally found safe parents. Or he loved me,
And I know there was 8 other girls I was responsible for but he
he liked me, he loved me the most. So to help them learn
that that's not love, is like the same when a woman comes to a domestic
shelter is typically 7-8 times before
a person victimized at that level will finally be ready to receive help
often
a place to pick them up and it's time number three and it's time number four
and they're not ready and the police have gotten so dis-compassionate because a that point
that point there like what are you trying to do? leave me alone, I want to get back to my boyfriend.
And they don't know and its really just helping them understand that
this is not love, this is some crazy abuse
cycle, so helping them afterwards identify
what that was and what normal is. Their normal is not our normal.
Under our system of justice, which we are so thankful that we have,
it's the greatest system of
justice in the world. Even with its faults because we have to be honest.
honest with this discussion and say taht
we do have some faults. Bun under our system of justice,
it is a very defense driven system, especially in the state of
a courts and I know Frank can talk about it from the federal perspective.
so the victim in a state prosecution would
have to go through a deposition would have
first have to go through testimony at the state attorneys office
very thorough and detailed
discover whether or not we have a case they go through deposition
where defense council have the opportunity to
examine the victim and then of course
appear in front of the person she is accusing
and testify before a jury and a judge
these are women who
have a lot
of skeletons in their closet and this process
reveals all those skeletons, and it's emotionally
yes, it's emotionally very traumatizing
what we try to do through our victim services component of our office
and I'm sure Marion county has the same thing. What we try to do is we try to prepare
the witness, the flesh witness victim, for
what's going to come up next and actually practice and role play
so that there is some strengthening, inner core strengthening
that you can bear the deposition get through it and move on to the next
step And I think this thing is growing there, that's area where connie
really specializes in is working with survivors to prepare
them for those experiences, because they do, they need to be coached.
yet I think one thing that everyone needs to understand is that
investigating and prosecuting cases involving the commercial ***
exploitation
women and children is a very resource-intensive
in dealing with the the victims and the survivors is just one challenge that we
have to deal with in these cases these are really tough cases to prove
in the courtroom and but I also wanna address another aspect that and that is
in the earlier series that we watched we saw
what I call when I would turn street-level prostitution taking place
and you may look around in our community and say we don't have a problem cuz I'm not
seeing any street-level prostitution take place
but in my experience that the problem has moved
off the streets and onto the net so
today essentially what you're seeing in prostitution is the people prostituting
themselves on the street
or 12 don't have access to a computer because that's where the market today s
in the market is taking place by the way right here in Gainesville right now
child sex prostitution and commercial *** exploitation of
women isn't just happening in Sarasota it's happening right here in this
community
right now and that in reality its its Gainesville its Ocala, it's Tallahassee
its it's not relegated just to the Tampa Bay just to the Orlando area thing else
just a piggyback
because I do a lot a community training in I run in this issue all the time
in you know what are the with the best things about you the community training
as you see a visceral reaction you see the change
are in an audience because you get as Springs
Frank terms I think when that you get you get a group of people whether it's
ten or a hundred
in a look at you with with their mouth open and are hanging on every word
because all my god they're being confronted by something absolutely
horrible in their community
the always in its making them confront the fact that whether you like it or not
is here
so in there is some frustrations there not to mention we have we also have an
issue ever done that
to back up a little bit we know
from some the academic studies when we go to interview these victims we need
nine
you anywhere from three to 12 interviews before we get usable information
for the investigation now you add into that now we're gonna have to go at least
you
just like she just never doubt another re interviews
you know the three statements so you know this this victim
that could be 14 years old is talking about giving their statement
fourteen or fifteen times before there's a resolution to the case
add into that we have judges that say that a
child it's been a victim of *** abuse can only be a interviewed three times
and then it's not
is not usable so we've got a reeducation our judges
we have to reeducate are prosecutors we have to do this stuff
its while there's a there's a issue with law enforcement understanding this in in
my own agency is not amused
there is an issue with the judiciary understanding this as well
just as much are it's one of those things we have
as a society we have to finally stand up in bind together and realize it
we still have the social justice movement is not dead in this country
civil rights movement is not dead
were we're still in that they covet right now in we have to make a decision
that
we can no longer find the 60
commercial *** exploitation is a challenge that
investigation and prosecution alone is not going to really have an impact on
you see because the first up we don't have the resources to tackle the problem
in the scope and scale the problem is a lot greater than we know
that then we know that it to be is taking place as I said right here right
now
I always I call human trafficking I kinda a multi headed hydra
which is a you know a dragon from ancient Greek mythology
you can't kill a hydro by chopping up one of the heads
there's the law enforcement prosecution had will you we're not gonna kill it
that way
we can have the top of all the heads all this together everybody wielding a sword
at the same time
what why is there a market for
young women young men thats the market is what's driving the crime itself
we're gonna lot talk about what we gonna do to help the survivors how we gonna
prosecute the people who are committing these crimes
well I'm asking you what are we gonna do to stop this crime from occurring in the
first place
what is it white is very marketplace for this commodity
because if we in the marketplace they want no one's gonna
that we won't have victims will be having a concern ourselves with having a
triage these people how in
brings back the bring these victims and survivors back to level normalcy
that were on suggesting to you our focus needs to be
in needs to be in eliminating the marketplace for women and children
and and young men that's where that that's where our efforts need to be
so I don't want me we don't have poor sales in the bleeding red investigate
prosecute this crime way
by the way how old is this crime
is crime has been occurring since pre recorded history over 10,000 years
people have been sexually exploiting other people that's reality folks
in it's often to me the right now there seems to be a a better awareness
and it's like almost are our country's become more self-aware
nature this problem but don't fool yourself
up human trafficking has been around since mankind has been around
it we're going to be serious about really do want something about this we
need to get the heart
up the problem the heart of the problem is not investigating and prosecuting
people
it's not trying to bring some normalcy the victims and survivors
the harder the promising ending the marketplace and that's where we need to
be folks
you don't think there's a marketplace signed by cute when you go home to go on
the internet
and look on the e-commerce web sites and you'll see the marketplace
it's right there right now taking place all around us
and there are men and women right now in this neighborhood
who are being sexually exploited via the net and that's reality
on Backpage right now like in your town you will have a live
the what women are for sale ongoing in town right now
and I thought after that I'll boy marking
and go even further than that its it's not just the
where you would see it expect to see on Backpage under escorts in body rubs
go look at the personal sections of Craigslist in your really see the owner
sided the the
there's no other way to say it but it's the absolute perversions in our
community
when you read so many sad and you look at what people are asking in
in that kinda thing in a piggy-back on what frank said real quick
it because he brings up a good point lets in the marketplace but let's look
at what we're gonna do for early intervention strategies
we've got money for dare we've got money for anti-bullying campaigns we got this
huge huge campaigns out there
but where's the anti-human trafficking efforts better directed at our kids
because quite frankly the bad guys after our kids there after our sons or
daughters
and let you know that about I'm going up to the demands by like but we went after
the backpack
in the country for our side working with survivors
there's programs that are working well in San Francisco the stage project
yeah John program that's just a matter of bringing tapping
now getting everybody on board to do it's working well around the country
and we will talk more about that in our next segment we've almost solved the
problem right now
I we do have remorse for her actions to bring to the table
when we come right back we'll be back in just a minute