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JOHN: Right. So now I’m glad I’m actually inside, in a screened-in area; I’m not being
bitten by mosquitoes anymore. And now we have a special guest. His name is Josiah Han; this
is his farm, those are his char piles, in the char pit that you guys saw. And I definitely
would consider this guy an expert on biochar – he has been making it for a number of
years and doing a lot of research, and improving the results with the biochar.
So, first I want to ask him – so Josiah, so how did you get into making the biochar?
JOSIAH: No one else could provide it for me, so I just started making it myself. In 2008,
there was an article in the National Geographic magazine talking about soil health, and the
declining status of soil health in the entire globe, and that’s where I first learned
the term “biochar”, and the idea of utilizing waste organic materials to produce this charcoal
product which could be used to improve spoil for generations and generations to come and
by doing so, could also help to sequester carbon globally.
And the idea was like, “Wow! For real? Does this work?” Being scientifically minded,
I had to test that first part first: “Does it work?” And so I just started making it
myself in the backyard. I was doing home construction, and had lots of scrap lumber around, and just
started making fire in many different ways until I got better at it, and used lots of
different black stuff, and started experimenting with it – researching, experimenting, researching,
experimenting. Started getting some good results after I made some mistakes, and it was all
led from there. Eventually, it became my career, and has been
for the past five years. JOHN: Now, for those of you guys that don’t
know, we’re going to ask him – Josiah, what is biochar?
JOSIAH: That is a great question. Biochar is charred biomass. That is in its most simplistic
definition. Now, I’m going to start embellishing on that definition. It is charred biomass
intended for use in soil. I’m going to add some more, because that is when you’re talking
about it in its – I produce it now, will apply it to the soil. Well, what we found,
looking into this whole biochar paradigm is, biochar already exists in soils.
JOHN: Really? Even in some people’s yards right now, there is some biochar?
JOSIAH: Yes. You probably have biochar in your yard – a little bit at least. So, biochar
is essentially charred biomass. And from the time that biomass started inhabiting our planet,
and lightning struck down – and for whatever reason, fire was created – that created
char. JOHN: Hm mmm…
JOSIAH: So, char has been part of our soils, as long as soils have been supporting plant
life. And some soils have remarkably high amounts of biochar already, for instance,
the North American plains – the Iowa, Illinois kind of area – there is as much as 50% of
the organic matter in the topsoil in the form of pyrogenic carbon. A lot of people just
say “biochar”, kind of because we’re coming from the biochar world where we’re
investigating this. And so, now that term has been applied to
charcoal in soil. So, what is biochar? We’re still working on the exact definition that
won’t take three pages. It’s been around forever. It’s part of soils throughout the
world to varying degrees. It’s something that we’re now creating and using. And I
think most people in the biochar industry would also attach “sustainable” somewhere
in there. That was part of the idea when the seed was
planted, it became this whole biochar thing, the idea was, “Wow, it seems as though charcoal
in soil is linked to healthy soils.” We see a direct correlation there. And the world
right now is experiencing a carbon imbalance – much too much carbon in the atmosphere,
and a loss of carbon from the soils. JOHN: Hm mmm…
JOSIAH: We also have a great demand for energy, and a huge amount of wasted biomass. So we
can take the wasted biomass, cleanly burn that to create energy and biochar, take the
biochar and put it in the soil, improving farmland and sequestering carbon at the same
time. JOHN: Wow.
JOSIAH: And all in a way that is not out of sync with the planet, but in sync with the
planet’s natural systems, because charcoal is already part of the soil. And I think our
best route to success with biochar is paying attention to the ways in which it occurs naturally
in nature. Now, we can also embellish upon that, because
well, we’re taking natural systems and redesigning them. But I think it’s very important to
start with that seed of biochar is not something that we just totally created out of nothing.
It exists, and has existed for a very long time.
JOHN: Wow. I mean, I encourage you guys to garden by the practices of modelling nature
– I’m trying to duplicate nature. Not maybe as nature exists now after we’ve been
here for hundreds of thousands of years, and the topsoils are being eroded and getting
the nutrients leached out of them – but how nature would have existed; I’m trying
to duplicate that in my garden. I think biochar could definitely play a good role in doing
that. JOSIAH: Well, I’m going to interject for
just a second right here – I thought of something else, while we’re talking about
that, is the initial term of “biochar” came about in this whole next step evolved
around terra preta. Right? JOHN: Yeah, yeah.
JOSIAH: And terra pretza soil is in the Amazon, which are the most amazing example that we
know of right now, of biochar’s use. And it’s an exemplary model of how to use biochar
properly. But what is important to recognize is, that’s not the only example of humans’
use of charcoal to improve soils. What we’ve now been finding – I say “we, as the biochar
community – is widespread use of charcoal in soils in both time and space. Many cultures
around the world have been using charcoal for a long time.
It just seems that we, as a western culture, have somewhat forgotten about this element
of farming. JOHN: Wow. So, you just mentioned charcoal,
we’ve used charcoal as farming. So, can somebody just go out and buy King’s Fern
charcoal, and grind it up and put it in the soil, and expect the same results – than
to get a good, well-produced biochar? JOSIAH: He’s good. Now I know why you watch
him. (Chuckles). Yeah – JOHN: (Chuckles). It’s cheap, man. The charcoal
stuff is cheap – JOSIAH: Yeah…
JOHN: And the biochar, man, might cost me more money.
JOSIAH: Yeah, but no. Yes, but. Yes, but. Yes, but. I put a “yes, but”, and the
“but” would probably be in Caps Lock. Because charcoal is produced with the intent
of making a fuel product – that’s the “coal” addition at the end of it. They’re
not just calling it “char”, they’re calling it “charcoal” – “coal” like
a fuel substitute. And if your intention is to produce a fuel,
the oilier the better. The more oil content, the higher BTU value, the more energy you’re
going to get out of it – the easier it lights, the quicker it burns – it’s great.
If you’re trying to make a soil product – those oils are not necessarily going to
be your best friend. They can create biochars that are hydrophobic, not hydrophilic. Hydrophobic,
they’re scared of water – they don’t play well with water. Those oils and tars
are basically soot kind of compounds; they’re very carbon-rich, and can basically throw
your carbon-nitrogen balance out of whack for a temporary amount of time.
Now, they can be used to improve soils, but they also come with them a big “yeah, but”
kind of thing. And so, that’s just what the charcoals are intended for use in soil.
The briquettes – such as King’s Fern – often, to a high degree, can be de-volatilized coal.
So basically, harvesting coal from the ground, de-volatilizing it and then adding some other
stuff, and making a briquette for cooking. Yeah, that’s a very low likelihood of helping
your plants grow. JOHN: So, don’t do it. (Chuckles). So, there
are two ways of getting biochar – either you can make it yourself, which I kind of
showed you Josiah’s example, and how he’s done it here himself; or you can buy it. And
we’ll talk more about those two ways in a little bit. But before we get into how to
make it, why don’t we talk about the benefits? He’s definitely done a lot of research about
this. So, Josiah, what would you say the main benefits
are for a home gardener, or for farmers out there that are watching, why it probably should
be used in the farm or garden to improve the crops, the yields, and all that kind of stuff?
JOSIAH: If you use biochar, your life will be much simpler –
JOHN: (Chuckles). JOSIAH: No, I’m kidding, kidding, totally
kidding. Some people might try to portray that, and it’s just another tool; it’s
a fantastic tool, though. It’s a fantastic tool, and I think that’s the most important
thing to remember. There’s a lot of – initially, especially – there’s a lot of excitement
about like, “Wow, biochar.” And then sometimes, it doesn’t quite meet what some people have
created, this hype, and then, “Oh, biochar, grrr,” and then it becomes negative.
Well, it’s just a tool, but it’s a fantastic tool. When – sorry, I just bit a mosquito
– when done properly, and this is very often the case – you get very increased water
use efficiency – JOHN: So, it retains the water, right?
JOSIAH: Yeah, and helps against drought resistance and all different kinds of things. But increased
water use efficiency is one easily said. Increased nutrient efficiency, meaning, with the same
amount of nutrients, your plants will have access to more of them – basically, the
nutrients will be used more efficiently. So, water use efficiency, nutrient use efficiency,
and oftentimes, greater microbial activity – a greater proliferation of beneficial
microorganisms. But that’s a tricky one, because it’s not like the biochar goes in
there and starts saying, “Hey, I’m biochar, and everyone’s got to be nice now.”
But oftentimes, the physical properties of the biochar can create a soil environment
that is more conducive to the beneficial microorganisms to do their job, such as greater tilth – this
is another way of saying, the fluffiness of soil, the ability to work in soil. So, greater
tilth, which also directly relates to penetration of water – the water’s ability to penetrate
through soil; the ability of air to be in the soil as well, because the soil really
should be only about half soil, and the rest of it should kind of be water and air space.
So, biochar can really help with that. So, basically, it’s working on physical, chemical
and biological waste – it can physically change the structure of your soil, loosening
things up, creating more air space, which can also lead directly to the biological component.
Those biological components are also going to be pretty darn happy about the chemical
attributes of biochar, because biochar also has an extremely high surface area.
I’m going to try and put that surface area into a mind’s picture there. I’ll often
use a reference like, a gram of biochar – a gram is going to be like a little tiny bit
right there in my hand – a gram of biochar can have as much surface area as a tennis
court – JOHN: Wow…
JOSIAH: – to potentially as much as a football field.
JOHN: Wow. JOSIAH: So, that’s if you were to unravel
it, and flatten it all out, a really, really, really high surface area. So, if you look
at it under a microscope, it’s not just like these flat little things. It’s not
like a grain of sand or something, where you have the surface area as what’s on the outside.
Because the biochar is produced from material that has a vascular structure – it has tubes
and tunnels all the way through it. So, although you have the exterior surface
area, you also have the interior surface area which is also active, because microbes – little
bacteria are living in there, fungi can travel in there; even root hairs can travel in there
and pull the nutrients and water out of there. The microbes, and everyone’s – it becomes
a housing for microorganisms. A housing that deals well with water and nutrients.
An interesting part of the biochar is that it’s largely carbon. And the fact that it’s
carbon, this lends to the ability – partly to the ability to work so well with these
elements, is that…how do I explain this one lightly? It plays well with others.
JOHN: All right, Josiah. We just learnt that the biochar has a lot of carbon. So, Josiah,
I already added the compost to my garden; I’m adding that, right? Why should I add
the biochar that also has carbon? JOSIAH: Very good question. Yeah, soil organic
carbon typically just stops at that, as far as the definition. But the soil organic carbon
can have more than one type. One way to differentiate that would just be to call it “pyrogenic
carbon”, or some people would say “biochar”. As I mentioned earlier, pretty much most soils
throughout the world have some biochar, even to a small degree left over from forest fires,
grass fires, or fires of any kind. Carbon in soil is a very important aspect
and there is a difference between charred carbon and uncharred carbon.
JOHN: Hm mmm… JOSIAH: One very interesting thing here is
that the charred carbon is not biologically degradable in the same that a compost carbon
would be. So if you were to say, “Oh, I’ve been using compost carbon, that stuff biologically
degrades, and after a couple of years or decades, it’s gone from my soil. Biochar lasts for
a hundreds of thousands of years. Why don’t I just use biochar, and I never have to worry
about any kind of carbon ever again?” JOHN: (Chuckles).
JOSIAH: Totally wrong again. I would not suggest that; there’s a balance. I think even if
you’re putting the biochar in your soil – and it’s a great source of carbon – it’s
not going to react the same way in a natural environment as a raw carbon would. Basically,
this the biochar carbon is not biologically degradable. Fungi and bacteria cannot break
it apart and eat it for energy. JOHN: Wow. So you talked about the two kinds
of carbon. What ratios do you think for optimal growth and optimal health of our plants, for
optimal health of our planet should we have in the soil of the charred carbon versus the
uncharred? JOSIAH: Well, this is uncharted territory
– (chuckles). JOHN: (Laughs loudly). See how much fun I
have on my show? (Chuckles). JOSIAH: (Chuckles) – But I’ll speculate
anyways. Ill speculate anyways, because it’s a new frontier in biochar science where the
“front” of this is geared, and I’ve been looking at some of the research articles
coming out, and it does appear that there seems to be an optimal ratio. If you’re
using nature as a – JOHN: Reference point…
JOSIAH: – as a reference point, yeah. And one example would be in the fertile prairies
of America, the fertile Midwest band, there is a high level of biochar – naturally created
biochar – in the soils. And the ratios are typically between 30% and 50% of the organic
matter in the topsoil. Ok, I was interested, so I did some very preliminary research into
the terra preta soils that are so famous in the Amazon, and there was very little research
that I found that was very helpful with this. But it seems to be so much similar – as
though there is almost a 30% to 50% biochar to regular raw or – maybe you could call
it raw rather than “cooked” carbon. So, I guess that would be like a two-thirds
to a half percent of biochar-derived carbon to organic carbon – raw carbon.
JOHN: So, if we want that level of biochar, or the “cooked” carbon – now you’ve
got “cooked” and “uncooked” carbon – how much should we be adding when we add
it to the soil? Can you add too much biochar to your soil?
JOSIAH: I think too much biochar is a matter of time. And it’s important to recognize,
too, that soil is three-dimensional. So a lot of research done on biochar will often
list things as “tonnes per acre” or “tonnes per hectare”. But it’s also important
to think of it in volumetric terms as well, as in how deep was that application done?
And then over time, how long till you accumulate that amount?
Typically, I have found it safest to stay within 5-10% of the volume where applied.
If you’re only applying it in the top inch, stay within 5-10% by volume in that top inch.
In the top foot, 5-10% by volume in that top foot. These are safe – this is a very safe
and very effective place to stay. Now, I’ve also done experiments on pushing
it real far, because the images of the terra preta soils in the Amazon – they’re black.
They are black as night, in some cases. There’s obviously much more than just 5-10% of biochar.
And I’ve done this with my own gardening, and done it when I’m potting as well, and
I’ve found that over time, through incremental applications, I’m able to continue to improve
my soil with other additions of biochar, but slow and steady.
So I might start with 5-10%, then slowly add it later as part of my compost, as part of
my fertilizer, or sometimes with my potting, with my new plantings. So slowly, the soil
will accumulate to something more like possibly as much as 20-30%, by volume. But I do not
recommend starting with that right off the bat. I have seen people that have gone – and
I’ve been one of those people – that have definitely gone too far.
And part of what can happen with the too far, especially on immediate terms, is it just
disrupts a balance that you might have already had. That balance might be a pH balance, a
nutrient balance, microbial population, and other things like that. Basically, disrupting
your soil balance can have negative effects. JOHN: Absolutely. So let’s talk about the
pH, because I think that comes up a lot from people in biochar: “If you add the biochar,
it will mess up your pH.” So, is this true, does it happen, and what would you say about
that? JOSIAH: Well, if your pH is 4.5 – and as
we commonly find out here in Hawaii, with a very low pH – the high pH of biochar is
often very welcome. But biochar tends to have a high pH. When producing biochar, it’s
nearly impossible to not accidentally produce a little bit of ash in it. Part of biochar
is the ash that comes with it; it’s part of the fire process.
When you make an omelette, you break a couple eggs or something, right? When you make biochar,
you make a little ash out of it. I don’t know, you can cut that out later, it’s horrible.
But the ash has an alkaline – the ash is what lends the biochar its alkalinity. So
biochar will – depending on the producer, the production style – it will typically
have a high pH in of up to 8.5 to 9.5. And when we incorporate that into the soil,
it will raise your soil pH; it will bring your soil pH up. Now, it’s important to
remember that it’s the ash content of the biochar which is causing that; the biochar
is essentially pure carbon, and the temporary shift in pH has most to do with the ash which
is again – and I use that word – temporary. But it’s important to pay attention to that,
because disrupting your pH in a negative way will give you negative plant growth response.
So, again, 5-10% biochar – typically you’re not going to find this to be an issue, although
it does have a pH of, say, 8.5 to 9.5, it will often have a low carbon – calcium carbonate
equivalent, a low pH impact. JOHN: All right, good. So it can be safe to
use in small amounts, and if you use too much, you’re probably going to mess some things
up. So, let’s talk about how to get the biochar, you can buy it from a hopefully reputable
source, or you could make it yourself. And just because you make it yourself, that doesn’t
mean that it will be the best biochar. So, what would you say, if you’re going
to make it or buy it, what are some key factors that somebody would want to look for, to make
sure to get a good quality biochar? Because I want people to be able to get a quality
biochar that is actually going to give results, and not something that they’re going to
put in their soil, and mess everything up? JOSIAH: Well, I’d say, if you’re going
to make it yourself, don’t be scared to mess it up a little bit.
JOHN: (Chuckles). JOSIAH: And here’s how you can help fix
your goof-ups. Typically – well, when I was first making biochar – I messed up quite
a lot, but I was still able to get good results. So, say I made a biochar that had very high
pH, because it was half ash and half biochar. That can be fixed; there are a lot of organic
amendments that you’re going to use for your soil that are going to have a low pH.
And typically, by incorporating biochar with your compost, most of the problem that you
might find through a rookie producing biochar – such as I was for many, many years – most
of those can be solved just by incorporating it with the compost and match the compost
to help ease a lot of those things. Making it yourself, a couple of key pointers
are: typically hotter is better, if you’re talking about your backyard. Now with large-scale
industrial systems that can get very, very hot, that is not necessarily going to be the
case. For backyard production, you do want it typically (…) hot. Always buy clean feed
stock. Clean feed stock, clean feed stock, super important. Dry feed stock, and be safe.
JOHN: All right, very good. So you talked about if you’re making it yourself, but
what about buying a good biochar? There are many companies out there, unfortunately. I
wish it was available in every nursery; if you go to the nurseries and you ask for biochar,
they might look at you like you come from the moon, or something, because most people
don’t know what biochar rock is. These cutting edge technologies that are really
supposed to be in the earth, but after many years of soil depletion, it may not be. And
that’s why when you guys use them, for the best results. So, what can somebody look for?
JOSIAH: Look for Soil Wreath. JOHN: (Chuckles). So this Soil Wreath, that’s
a brand, right? JOSIAH: Yeah, that’s a brand that I work
with. That’s a brand that I work with, and we’re trying to make it accessible to anyone
that’s out there. And we’re also trying to make products that are very effective and
very easy to use. So we have a plain biochar product, we also have some more user-friendly
biochar product that’s 50% biochar with compost, worm castings and kelp meal. And
another biochar that’s gone through the process that Keith showed you earlier in my
backyard. I’ve taken that basic process I’ve developed
over the years of development out here in Hawaii, and I’ve stepped it up a couple
notches. And we’re taking that to the mainland and market it for national distribution. But
we’re not the only player in the field; you should be able to find biochar, if you
look hard enough, you should be able to find some.
And right now, we’re still working as an industry on exactly how to set the bar, so
that someone like you could just easily up and say, “Oh, this is a good biochar, because
it has this, that and the other.” But I wish I could just say one word or one thing:
right now, my best suggestion will be to you, if you’re not going with our company – because
I know our company, and I know what we’re doing is good – then research the company
that you’re buying it from. Research them good, look online, do the best
you can. Right now, that’s the best I can give you, is do your own research. We’re
working on as an industry, part of the reason is because, like I mentioned earlier, it’s
black, it’s black, it’s black, and then it’s black again. You cook it low, you cook
it high, ba da da da da. So, you can’t just look at a biochar and
say, “Oh, it’s good”, or, “It’s not good”. Research the companies that you’re
buying from. JOHN: And another thing I would recommend
from you guys, just being (…) just buy a little bit at first and do some testing in
some test plots, and see if you get good results or not. If you get results, it’s probably
something that’s going to work for you. If you’re not getting the results, maybe
try to find another brand. Hopefully in upcoming episodes, I’ll actually
feature the Soil Wreath products, and have a special discount available for you guys
out there. So, you guys could get it shipped directly to you, because I know this stuff
can be very hard to find. All right Josiah. So, we just learned about
the biochar, some maybe good companies to buy it from. But what I specifically want
to talk about now is the mature biochar that I saw and shared with you guys, that had the
fungal (…), the fungi in there, the tree roots growing in there, I think I saw an earthworm
earlier, and actually a whole bunch of insects crawling around in there.
And why is that matured biochar better than 100% biochar?
JOSIAH: Well, because it’s got cockroaches in it –
JOHN: (Laughs loudly). JOSIAH: But don’t worry, that’s the stuff
for my backyard; it’s been sitting there for like, six months. So, we won’t be selling
you a bag with cockroaches in it, hopefully (chuckles). Unless you want that, I mean,
if there’s considerable demand, we’ll consider it. So let us know.
JOHN: (Laughing loudly). It’s got the insect grass in there, and that makes it supercharged.
JOSIAH: But really, the point of bringing up the insects is, it’s great – and I
hope that you guys can get that – is, if there weren’t insects, and it’s been there
for that long, it would lead you to be worried about, “Why?”
JOHN: Yeah, why are they avoiding it? JOSIAH: There’s a jungle here in Hawaii;
they would have to be avoiding it, to not be there. So, earlier on, when I started producing
biochar – I’ve been producing it since 2008, when I started – when I started commercial
production that year, and was producing a couple pickup trucks a week full of biochar,
and have been consistently for years, in my backyard.
So, initially, I started offering a compost tea inoculation for free. I was making compost
tea for a papaya project I was doing for the backyard, and so there was really no sweat
off my back to just throw some compost tea for inoculation in.
And it sounds great, too – (theatrical stage voice) – “…and now, for…”(chuckles).
JOHN: (Chuckles). JOSIAH: And then, at the same time we we’re
doing some research with fish hydrolysate, and we had this batch that was so gross, you
could gag a maggot; it was just disgusting. And so, I had this couple gallons, like, “Oh
my God”, you know. But charcoal can be a deodorizer, so I’m just like, “I’ll
just get rid of it on here.” And the coolest thing happened; I never saw
this coming – it actually – not only did the smell kind of go away pretty quickly,
but it actually got hot. JOHN: What?!
JOSIAH: The pile of biochar got hot. It was incredible. Thermophilically hot. It got hot
because of microbial – you know, they’re doing their thing, right? And so, it was really
incredible. And this was like a “Wow”. So here I took two gallons of fish hydrolysate,
threw it on two hundred gallons of biochar, mixed it in just a little bit, the smell changed
from gag-a-maggot stink to a really nice, earthy aroma in three to five days…
JOHN: Wow. JOSIAH: And the temperature rose within two
days up to about 140, 150 degrees Fahrenheit. And I was like, “Aaaahhhhh.” The lights
really went on for that one, because I had been playing around a lot with composting
biochar already. I knew there was a synergism there, we really needed to work on this, we
had to get this. But I needed a product that was mostly biochar and easy to (…) so, here
it is. I can take almost pure biochar with a lot of benefits.
So, that has evolved over the years. Another product I’m working with, it’s got 2%
compost, 1% fish bone meal, its alive with microorganisms, charged with nutrients, and
transformed through the microbial actions in a compost pile that I basically created
in this pile of essentially pure biochar. I’ve been doing that for years out here
in Hawaii, and I think that’s part of the reason that Hawaii Biochar Products is a company
that was so successful and it has sold so much material, because our material worked
great in so many environments. And so, then I’ve taken that, and advanced that for the
mainland. We’ve taken that and advanced that greatly for the mainland – still using
the same compost-like process, but we’ve got new ingredients, and the scene’s looking
great. The whole idea is basically, we want to mature
this stuff. If there’s any oils, anything like that left, we want the microbes to just
eat them up and transform them into good things, like humic acid, carboxylic function groups,
and plant-available nutrients. We throw the nitrogen in there to help with that, because
there is almost always be some available carbon; the nitrogen will offset that, they work together,
make all kinds of good stuff. So, when I did the calculations for the nitrogen
content of this biochar – again, we’re only going to need a tiny bit, but there is
some amount of nitrogen fertilizer that was being added to it – I found a 540:1 carbon
to nitrogen ratio. This is pyrogenic carbon, not regular carbon, right? But anyways, it’s
a fun ratio, we think. And even with that, we’re still seeing a nitrogen response when
applied. JOHN: Wow, that’s great.
JOSIAH: And application rates. Very microbic, that, but very interesting. So, what we found
with this matured product is that it’s much more soil-friendly. Its alive with beneficial
microorganisms, it has some nutrients to give – and not just some micronutrients, but
a small amount of macronutrients as well – to give, it’s not going to cause any tie-up;
it’s actually got a little bit to give. And the surface has been complexed with all
kinds of carboxylic functional groups, and a lot of the enzymes and residues left over
from the microbial party that just happened. JOHN: Wow. I definitely recommend using the
mature biochar, instead of 100% straight biochar. So, Josiah, is that the reason why sometimes
people use the biochar, they just don’t get the results, because it’s not fully
matured, and once again, not all biochars are created equal?
JOSIAH: Yeah, a fresh, raw biochar can be great stuff. And I don’t think you need
to be totally scared of fresh, raw biochar; it’s great. But it is a little bit more
touchy, it is a little bit more – it has to be dealt with with a lot more attention
to detail, such as pH, nutrients, microbes and some of those factors. Once it’s been
matured and composted and highly blended with other materials, it’s got a lot more freedom
– you have a much wider window of application rate and success rate, and stuff like that.
And I hope it doesn’t scare you guys too much about fresh, raw biochar. I can get fantastic
results with fresh, raw biochar straight out of the fire. There is no reason why you can’t
get results from fresh, raw biochar. But you can get bad results. And there’s been plenty
of scientific research to show that you can get bad results from using fresh, raw biochar.
So I would highly recommend if you’re not familiar with how to use that product successfully,
that you first try something that’s been blended, such as – I mentioned that we make
Soil Wreath; we make a 50-50 blend, which is 50% compost…I’m sorry…50% biochar
with compost, worm castings and kelp meal. It is easy – it is very, very, very easy
to be successful with. The matured biochar is much easier to be successful with, and
it is still almost pure biochar. And we’re also working on some other stuff, too, for
you guys to use the easiest thing possible, that you’re going to get the guaranteed
results with. I don’t want you to, “John, I used biochar, and it sucked.” Well, I
don’t know the quality of the biochar, I don’t know what you’re doing with this
stuff, I know it’s going to work, and that’s why I just say, go with the easy stuff. Unless
you’re one of those gearhead mad scientist dudes that wants to figure out if you can
probably make stuff better than his stuff. But, for the majority of us, like me, a backyard
gardener with no scientific degrees, I’m just gardening stuff, I’m just going to
take the easy way out and just get this stuff and use it in my garden. And actually, I’ve
been using the Soil Wreath 50-50 blend for actually quite some time now.
All right, Josiah. So now I want to bring up the “dark side” – (chuckles) – of
biochar. There are some people reporting that biochar is unsustainable, it takes too much
energy to produce, it actually will negatively impact plant growth, believe it or not. So
Josiah, what would you say to some of the reports or people saying that kind of stuff?
JOSIAH: Well, biochar is not idiot-proof. JOHN: Yeah.
JOSIAH: And, it doesn’t have willpower – we do. We have willpower. We can do evil, with
a butterfly if we wanted to. So, biochar is not just good because its biochar; it’s
what we do with it. And there are some people out there who think lots of bad thoughts and
assume the worst. Now there has been – I’m going to nail some of these top complaints
right here. JOHN: All right. Cool.
JOSIAH: Well, first of all, there has been a lot of debate – now this one personally
gets me – there has been a lot of debate about biochar not actually sequestering carbon…
JOHN: Hmm. JOSIAH: …as if it decays. As if it’s going
to melt or disappear. Well, I don’t know what to say to that – I mean really, it
just sounds to me to be very ludicrous, and that’s possibly because I have a scientific
background which includes interest in archaeological things. I mean, anyone who has done research
on cave digs or archaeological finds – charcoal. Man, they look for charcoal.
JOHN: Actually they do. They’re carbon dating it, right, to determine how something – how
old it is, because it’s got the carbon in there, still; it doesn’t have anything else.
It has the carbon, right? (Chuckles). JOSIAH: And I don’t think all carbon dating
is charcoal, but yeah. I mean, that is your prize, you find the charcoal, and lots of
these things are thousands of years old. I have personal experience here in Hawaii, where
I excavated an old kiln that was – it’s hard to say exactly, but it’s probably 100
years old. It was way beyond 50. And okay, great, we found charcoal that’s
more than 50 years old. But that charcoal I found, it looked like it could have been
produced yesterday… JOHN: Wow…
JOSIAH: …it was so clean, and so sharp-edged. And there are pictures of it on the Hawaii
Biochar website; I posted it. I just found it so beautiful and stunning. And then there’s
the terra preta soils; they we’re dead and gone 500 years ago – wiped out by disease
and guns, five hundred and something-plus years ago. And those soils are still black
– black with charcoal. So the archaeological evidence…and so where
this claim got started, I think – basically, to me, it almost seems kind of like shady
science – but basically, if you take charcoal, there’s some amount of labelled carbon on
that charcoal. Most of that is going to be like soot and stuff. The soot is biodegradable.
JOHN: Hm mmm… JOSIAH: Right, so those oils and tars can
be biodegradable – not very easily, but they do biodegrade. And those are going to
have a rather sharp thing, those are going to be biodegradable within a few years, maybe
even a decade. The rest of the carbon is not going to be biodegradable…except for a much,
much longer time; it’s not going to last forever, but it’s going to last a long,
long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long time.
We’re talking hundreds to thousands of years. Maybe tens of thousands of years. Maybe even
hundreds of thousands of years. So, if you were just to measure for, let’s say six
months – or maybe even if you were really, really patient, you could wait two years – you’re
going to see the decay rate over two years. And you’re going to see carbon disappearing
over the first two years. And most of that carbon is going to be because
of the soot stuff that’s left over, which is going to give you a curve like this, and
then you will apply it to the rest of things, you say, “Oh, see, after 20 years, it’s
all gone.” Well, that’s only accounting for a very small fraction of it, and that’s
the basic theory for where people might be coming up with these numbers.
And another one is, some people are producing really funky black stuff and calling it biochar,
and then testing it, and saying, “See? We made this stuff, we call it biochar, we tested
it.” And the only real way to test is put the biochar in the ground, start the stopwatch,
and wait. And from all evidence that I’ve seen with any sort of pragmatic approach – archaeological,
the terra preta – I think it’s a rather childish debate, personally.
And I have my curiosities as to intent. So, then, let’s talk about negative effects
in soil. Oftentimes, it’s been brought up that biochar can cause negative effects in
soil. Yes, it can. Biochar is not idiot-proof. I too, when I first started playing with biochar,
was able to get negative plant growth response. I was so excited about biochar, I laid it
down so thick in my garden… JOHN: (Chuckles).
JOSIAH: I laid it down so thick in my garden. It was horrible – (chuckles) – it was
a horrible crop, man, because I brought the pH up in my garden, the soil. I brought my
soil pH up to 8.2 in my garden. JOHN: Oops. Sorry (chuckles).
JOSIAH: Yeah, so that caused negative plant growth response. There have other cases where
you can get negative plant growth response. I’ve done other analyses where you can find
a growth curve, where 5%, 10%, 15%, 20% by volume biochar in the soil media improves
growth. 50%, 70% biochar by volume – negative growth.
JOHN: Hm mmm. JOSIAH: Okay? So, it’s not like, “Ok,
I used 5-10% biochar and got positive growth. Well, I should use 50% biochar and I’ll
get 10 times the growth!” JOHN: (Chuckles).
JOSIAH: Sorry, I wish it worked like that. But it doesn’t. So we found that there is
a “speed spot”, there is a magic thing there, you know, not …. And some of the
other topics on the terms of “biochar equals bad” would be “unsustainable”.
JOHN: Hm. JOSIAH: So, biochar being touted as unsustainable.
Sure, you could produce biochar unsustainably, but why? Why would you? It’s so much easier
to do it sustainably, actually, because – now let me explain why I would say that. So “unsustainably”
in my mind would be cutting down old growth forest to produce biochar.
JOHN: Wow, that’s just – that’s wrong. JOSIAH: First of all, old growth forest will
probably be more valuable as timber, if you we’re to do that. Secondly, it’s probably
– not probably – it’s vastly more valuable left as an old growth forest. And third, there
is so much biomass sitting around being wasted on a regular basis for free. Some people even
pay you to take their biomass. Why not use that?
There’s so much of that on this planet right now. There’s so much of that on this planet
right now, it’s incredible. It’s just absolutely incredible. I was partly guided
to biochar, because the house – some of the wood you might see in the background – was
built by me; I worked with a local sawmill to get the wood for this house.
And I can tell you, sawmills produce a lots – they take a round log and they square
lumber – there’s a lot left over. Just from that one industry alone, we have plenty
enough biochar for any near term use. JOHN: All right, so you guys just learned
that biochar is probably a good thing, I definitely believe in it and believe you guys should
use it. So the question comes up, “How do you use it?” so, Josiah, how do you use
biochar in your garden to grow more vegetables and more fruits and more edibles around your
yard? JOSIAH: Five to ten percent is probably the
most important thing to remember. Five to ten percent by volume in all my years of playing
with it in the backyard, and working with clients – I was just talking with John about
this earlier – through my backyard here in Hawaii, I have produced about 600 pickup
trucks full of biochar. And most of that was sold directly to farmers
here on Big Island. And so, I’ve heard a lot of feedback from my clientele about their
response, their experience with it. And that has been a really productive thing that we
as a community have learned together. So when I say 5-10% by volume, I didn’t just pull
that out of thin air. That has over time become a very safe and substantial number that we’ve
settled on. I’ll embellish on that just a little bit:
we’ve also found that as little as 2% by volume can still be very significant. As much
as 20% can still be very safe. Now, this is where you start getting these outer ends where
you have to use your head. And I would suggest if you’re going to go there, try first with
a few pots or a small part, and then extend. For instance, I worked with a tomato farmer
who was using it 30% with his greenhouse tomatoes, fantastically. He had 30% in the bottom half
of his pot to maximise the use of biochar. Fantastic results, actually, almost ridiculous.
Five to ten percent by volume. JOHN: So, Josiah, let’s give an actual real
world example, ok? So if somebody has a 4 foot x 4 foot square (…) garden, like many
of you guys may have, how much biochar would you add to it?
JOSIAH: Uhhhhh, it’s late in the evening for math. Let’s see, 5% is quarter inch,
five inches deep. 10% is one half inch, five inches deep. Most people’s hoes, or pick,
often tillages something in that five inches deep range. So that’s why I’ve normalized
those numbers there. So, quarter inch coverage to a half inch coverage,
tilled in about five inches deep. So, then you take that and you figure out the square
footage. So if we have 12 square feet at one inch of depth, that would be one cubic foot.
If we’re only going for four – I mean, I’m sorry – if we’re only going for
one quarter inch, we cover 4 x 12, 48 square feet. So for that 16 square foot garden, you
only need a quarter of a cubic foot, which is a typical garden bag, which is going to
be about 1 ½ to 2 gallons, rough math – don’t quote me on this.
JOHN: (Chuckles). So, it’s usually sold by about a cubic foot in the bag, right? So
you just have like a half bag, add it to your four foot by four foot range, then you’re
probably good, right? JOSIAH: Yeah, but we we’re talking about
– we we’re just talking about this – soon we’re coming out with a smaller bag to help
you guys successfully use it. So a little 2-gallon bags might work.
JOHN: So, now you guys know how much to add – 5-10% - but how do you add it? I already
have my plants planted, can I just side dress it in, could I just lay it on top of the soil?
Do I need to mix it up before I plant the seeds? And that’s how I add it, before I
plant the seeds in. so, what would you say on that, Josiah?
JOSIAH: Lots of different ways. Lots of different ways you can add it. Typically, one thing
you want to think about is, you want the biochar to be well blended with your soil. It’s
not a fertilizer that’s just going to melt and distribute itself; you want to physically
blend it with your soil. That will happen over time, with bugs, and in general, but
you want to blend it with your soil. This is often best done if you’re in a temperate
climate that has a winter season of significant amount.
You’ll actually want to blend it in the fall, so that in the fall, when you’ve harvested
everything before the big winter comes, you want to blend it in with your soil, and let
everything settle, and come springtime, plant and you’re ready to go. If you have a large
area, and you want to maximise the efficiency of a small amount of biochar, you really only
need to put it right down the row. You don’t need to put the biochar in the aisles this
year; you can get that another time. So just apply the biochar right down the row.
Another way to go is if you only have a really small amount of biochar and you have a lot
of acreage to do, use it just with the plantings. JOHN: Hm mmm.
JOSIAH: So, you can use it in the potting media that you do your little seedlings in,
or you can use it to have your special mix there, so that when you put your plants in,
you have your special mix there to tuck them into bed with.
JOHN: Definitely a good answer. So, another question is, I know I have a lot of hydroponic
and aquaponic growers. So how can, and can biochar be used in aquaponics and hydroponics?
JOSIAH: Absolutely, it can and has been. You know, it can have qualities very much similar
to perlite. The interesting thing is, it has physical – it physically kind of looks like
a black perlite or something, almost. JOHN: Yes.
JOSIAH: It kind of feels like a black perlite, almost. But it has the kind of exchange capacity,
more like of a vermiculite. JOHN: Oh, wow.
JOSIAH: Yeah. So, it helps hold the nutrients in. So, that’s a picture and a half right
there, right? So it has the physical feel of the perlite, with the characteristic exchange
capacities of vermiculite, and won’t go muddy on you like the vermiculite does after
a while. So, it can be very efficient to use in the hydroponic and aquaponic media. In
aquaponics, it can be used in the bio filter – that’s the ebb and flow bio filter,
or however your flushing system works. It can also be used in the actual little trays
that your plants are grown in. I’ve got one client that actually uses that, and he
put that back into the vermicasters and reuses that again and again, because the voucher
doesn’t decay; he just keeps using it again and again.
JOHN: Wow. So let’s talk about another way that you can use biochar and incorporate it
into your garden. That’s one of the ways I’m going to start doing after this trip,
because I’ve asked him a lot about this – is actually adding it and pre-inoculating
it in your compost, to not only increase the nutrients in your compost, but also to get
it in there so that when you have the finished compost, the biochar is already in there.
So, Josiah, how will adding the biochar help your compost pile work more effectively?
JOSIAH: This is one of my favourite things; I’m so glad we got to this, and I hope that
you’ve managed to keep your interest this far. Working biochar with compost is a very
synergistic thing – it can benefit the compost and it can benefit the biochar, as well. What
they’ve found, or what we’ve all found when including biochar with compost, is that
we can find reduced nutrient loss. JOHN: Wow…
JOSIAH: Oftentimes, the nitrogen volatilizes off; you can smell it volatilizing off as
ammonia. JOHN: Yeah, I do.
JOSIAH: Incorporating the biochar can and has been shown to help reduce the loss of
nitrogen through volatilization. What we’ve also found is that it can increase the microbial
activity. It can increase the microbial activity, which often results in a reduced amount of
time till the compost is matured. That’s a big deal sometimes. So those two factors
alone are really interesting, as well as the aeration factor.
Sometimes, like I mentioned earlier, biochar is like perlite: it’s really fluffy, it
has lots of air pockets in it, so it can help create environments that are more conducive
to your beneficial microorganisms and you’re not so beneficial microorganisms. And as we’ve
kind of gotten here, the biochar doesn’t necessarily decay. So, it’s really interesting,
the difference between your end product when you use biochar and your end product when
you haven’t. I don’t know how to explain that in much
easier ways than, “good”. You have to try it.
JOHN: (Laughter). JOSIAH: So, one really interesting thing is
that, not only can it improve your compost, but in that same thing, you’re actually
improving the biochar as well. You can be dramatically improving the biochar. Anything
that might have been bad about the biochar in the beginning, such as a high pH if that
is not desirable at that time, the soot and oils and resins that may be there because
of however it might have been produced – all of that is going to be transformed in the
compost pile. And the biochar, having gone through the compost
pile, will be proliferated with microorganisms, charged with nutrients, and covered in all
kinds of the wonderful things that makes compost so great, such as the carboxylic functional
groups, humic acids and folic acids, and enzymes and all these wonderful things in compost
piles. So, you put the two together, good things happen.
JOHN: Wow. So the last question I have for you, Josiah, is what are the top three reasons
why my users should start using some biochar in their garden?
JOSIAH: Water, nutrients and a healthy soil environment.
JOHN: Wow. The biochar will retain the water, it will allow for more soil nutrition, and
it’s going to encourage the beneficial microbes and fungi. And that’s what I’m all about.
So I teach you guys that natural method of gardening and just trying to model nature,
and I believe wholeheartedly that biochar can definitely help you do that.
I hope you guys enjoyed this episode here. It’s gone a little bit overtime, but I’m
glad, because there’s a lot of good information; I hope you actually got to the end. If you
like this video, please give it a big thumbs up, and hopefully I’ll be able to work with
the Soil Wreath Company to get a good deal for you guys on the biochar, so you guys can
get it directly mailed to you, because I know it can be quite hard to find locally.
So, once again, my name is John Kohler with growingyourgreens.com, we’ll see you next
time. All: Keep on growing with biochar!
JOSIAH: Aloha!