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Jonathan: Hi everyone. This is Jonathan Goodman. Welcome to another episode of The World of
Internet Marketing. Today we have Ed Siemienkowicz with us. I did that pretty well?
Ed: You did. You did that alright. You sound like family.
Jonathan: Ed has over 15 years as a graphic designer and has had the opportunity to see
the nature of communication change. His roots are print, web, and most recently mobile and
table design. He recently stepped his big toe into learning motion graphics, and we'll
find out what that is. He calls it an exciting new way to communicate for education and entertainment.
In his spare time, he's working as a sequential artist or as many of you may know it, a cartoonist.
He's been making comics for over 10 years. His motto is "Understand your client, understand
the brand, understand the audience, and connect them in a way that is interesting, and hopefully,
entertaining."
Ringling
Jonathan: Welcome Ed. How are you?
Ed: Very well. Good to be here and to see you.
Jonathan: Very good to see you too. We should let the audience know that Ed and I have known
each other for many years. We actually went to undergraduate college together. We went
to Ringling, which is now called Ringing College of Art and Design. When we went there, it
was Ringling School of Art and Design.
Ed: Yeah. It's a much more positive acronym now. Instead of being RSAD.
Jonathan: RSAD. Yeah, now it's RCAD.
Ed: Yeah, it's a little risqué.
Jonathan: I actually wanted to spend a couple of minutes talking about Ringling. Obviously,
your experience at Ringling was different than mine was. I was not a good artist. You
were a very good artist. I was swooped up into the Internet dot com world, where I learned
code and kind of put away my pens and paper. But you really took your undergraduate and
made it your career.
Ed: Yeah and I definitely feel pretty lucky to have done so. Many people out there consider
themselves to be artists or creative professionals and for one reason or another, choices made,
or various situations, it sometimes doesn't work out. So I definitely feel lucky for the
choices I've made and things that have been put in front of me.
Jonathan: I knew within the first year and a half of graduating and going out in the
field that it definitely was not something that I would ever want to pursue. It was hard
life. I want to roll into that and talk about 9MM Studio.
9MM Studio
Jonathan: Do you pronounce it 9 Millimeter?
Ed: Yeah, 9 Millimeter.
Jonathan: Is that your company?
Ed: It's what I call my company. It's my personal brand. It's a nickname that came from college.
When I was in school there, I was a big fan of Quentin Tarantino and John Woo. I had been
a fan of movies that were, not necessarily violent, but there was always a gun involved.
It was not like I was carrying guns to school. Super Soakers, yeah. But not guns. Anyway,
because of this, they were always making fun of me. Like I'm gun obsessed. But I'm really
the most nonviolent person. So I got the nickname 9 Millimeter Ed. I'll just throw it back to
a conversation I had with my father one morning. He said, "Why does your website say 9MMstudio.com?
If I'm going to look for you, why wouldn't I look for Eddie Seimienkowicz? What's your
buddy's name?" Joe Carroll. "What's his website? JoeCarroll.com. But if I use my name as a
dot com, no one will ever find me.
Jonathan: They won't even be able to type it in.
Ed: Right. I should have made it ToHellWithIt.com.
Jonathan: So you've been doing the studio. Obviously, you're doing other work that's
bringing in a greater deal of finances. Is this more of a hobby or is this something
that also translates into personal finance?
Ed: It's been both. Initially, it was a name given to my own comic studio. Again, it's
because my last name is a nightmare. And it's fun to make things grander than they really
are. The reality is that I'm a guy alone on Saturday night drawing. I had a day job and
this was what I did with all the rest of my time once I decided to get serious about it.
I started in Chicago, dropped everything because I was way too adult, and moved to Orlando.
I did that for seven years. It was great. I got started in comics with my buddy, Joe
Carroll. Then I figured it was time to come back to Chicago. I took a detour in Japan.
When I came back to Chicago, I fell into doing more illustration than graphic design, which
was my career up to that point. So I'm just like a one-man art factory. I'm doing design.
I'm doing illustration, storyboards and comics. For pretty much everything that doesn't involve
backend coding, I'm the guy.
Jonathan: Right. In fact, some of your work has included design work for the Golf Channel,
right?
Ed: Yes.
Jonathan: You branched out even beyond that and looked at doing web design and print design.
So you really have a multitude of really great skills.
Ed: Yeah, my life is just all irony. I chose Ringling so I could be an animator. When I
got to Ringling, I realized that I don't want to be behind a computer all day. It's not
like the old school flip a paper and hang out with imaginers all day. So I said illustration.
I can make a buck and I can draw. I got out of school into the most grueling situation
- one student called it 'stick fighting in Tibet'- to get a job. It was awful. And when
you're first out of school, you have no name and no connections.
Jonathan: Right.
Ed: So that's how I got into graphic design. I managed to fool people for years on end.
The foundation is the same, so I did graphic design. I was trained in print. Then when
I went to the Golf Channel, it was like, we need a web guy, so you're going to do that.
So I just jumped into the deep end on that one. That was going well for years. And upon
my return, some things that I knew were irrelevant before I went to Japan came back and it was
all about mobile apps and designing. Which I think is incredibly exciting.
Jonathan: Is this where the motion graphics comes in?
Ed: Well, I was recently working with a company that was -- it's hard to explain because they
can do a little of everything -- but they were a production house for video and web.
So I learned animation from them. I was also doing a lot of web and app illustration design
on-site for them, so I was just learning everything.
Jonathan: Now you have two comic books. We're getting to the point where we're going to
talk about marketing, but I want to first understand this. You have Chrome and Dust?
Chrome-and-Dust
Ed: Yes.
Jonathan: It looks like it's an actual physical book. Is that right?
Ed: Yes. It's physical and electronic. When I debuted, I made sure that it would be available
any way you wanted to read it.
Jonathan: But obviously there's a greater cost with print. And a greater risk, as you
need to make several copies and you need people to buy those in order offset the actual print
version.
Ed: Yes.
Jonathan: Now you've already done Issue 1 and Issue 2. Is that right?
Ed: Correct.
Jonathan: Was there a large span between those two?
Ed: There was because it's not my day job. My day job really got in the way of the dream.
So it was really just kind of demanding and dreaming. Even though I knew that it was what
I'd really rather be doing, sometimes I would just come home too tired, like I can't see
and I can't draw. So that's the unfortunate reality.
Jonathan: But in doing that, did you see a decrease in the cost of doing this? Did it
become easier and more manageable to pay for the cost?
Ed: I think anybody who gets into independent comics has to be realistic because you're
probably not going to make your money back, especially at the outset. This is really true
of the first book. It's all a learning curve about printing the book and pricing it, learning
to sell it and what are you doing to get it out there? And then taking it to shows. Most
of your books are going to move at shows. But you have to pay for the shows. And you
have to pay for getting there and food. All these things beyond just printing a book and
renting a table for a weekend.
Jonathan: Wow.
Ed: Yeah, there's a lot of overhead. It sounds like the dumbest thing you could do with your
life. Because it's nothing but toil and spending and very little return on investment.
Jonathan: Amazing. But you've built a brand over this. There are people who are excited
to get Issue 2 and are even more excited, regardless of how long it takes, to get Issue
3, right?
Ed: Yes.
Jonathan: Have you looked at crowd funding for the next issue? That probably wasn't around
when you did Issue 1, right?
Ed: No, it wasn't. It's very interesting to be in this now and having come up. My start
in print was that we printed out, we pasted on a board, we had a huge box of boards to
drive down to the printer. So if you're standing around, it's no, you cut that ad out. You
put that next to the article. We've got work to do. So now everything is desktop. It's
mobile. There are templates for websites. It's amazing that all these things can be
done to save money and save time. So I try to take advantage of the technology as it
arises.
Jonathan: Random Play seems to be more about your life. It's exclusively on the web?
Random Play
Ed: Yeah. Chrome and Dust is fictional. I'm calling it basically a post- apocalyptic rom
com. So it's very Mad Max, but there's antics. It's very light. There's '80s flashbacks.
It's adventure. The other one is a strip. Random Play is just totally random stories
about my life. It's so I could tell these stories I've always wanted to tell without
deadline pressure and worrying about a book. If I can fill up a book's worth of pages,
I'll do it. But it was pretty much at my leisure.
Jonathan: That's great. So do you have people who come back on a daily basis? Or this more
of a weekly thing?
Ed: It was weekly for a long time. Again, both fits of production fell off at about
the same time. That's full-time life.
Jonathan: Let me press the issue and then we'll move on. Do you feel that you have marketed
both of these individually, whether it's going to Comic Cons and things of that nature, or
online to get people to come back every week? Or put it through Facebook. Do you feel that
there is now an audience for more of your work?
Ed: More so with Chrome and Dust than Random Play. Random was building for a while, but
once it dropped off, it really dropped off. People will discover it and I'll get a random
email from time to time saying "This is great. It's really funny. You should do more." And
I say, I know. But again, it's a time-consuming process and I pretty much leave it out there
for people to find. But at the same time, I really need to put my efforts into the creation
of this other more involved book. I wish I could do it all.
Jonathan: Listen. There's so only many hours in a day. I missed last week's podcast because
I just didn't have a second to do it. Let's move on. Let's talk about podcasting.
Ed: Sure.
Let's Talk Podcasting
Jonathan: We really want to focus in on podcasting. You are on the Voice of the Republic. I am
not even going to attempt to explain what this podcast is. I will let you give the summary
of what this is.
voiceoftherepublic
Ed: Voice of the Republic. Don't look for The Voice of the Republic. That's a whole
other issue.
Jonathan: Is that somewhere that we should not go?
Ed: I don't know. Have you done a show about people online who feel they can rip off your
brand's images and everything? Because we can definitely talk about in the next show.
Anyway, these other guys have a show.
Jonathan: Do they call it The Voice of the Republic?
Ed: The Voice of the Republic. Again, graphic designer, illustrator, things take time. Wasn't
I surprised to find that this upstart podcast was straight up using our logos for their
completely other show?
Jonathan: They had just scrawled in the word "The."
Ed: They titled it "The," but they kept the logo exactly the same.
Jonathan: How unbelievable.
Ed: Yeah, and they don't see a problem with it and they don't see why we're complaining.
Jonathan: Amazing. So tell me what Voice of the Republic is.
Ed: Voice of the Republic is a show about grownups who also can function in regular
life, like you or I, but you see these geeky tastes. So you have your day job where you
maybe wear a $500 suit. But you know what? You just love to come home and watch like
the old Battlestar Galactica episodes. Or you're still on eBay hunting for hard-to-find
Star Wars figures. Or you really care that Lex Luthor will be played by the guy who looks
like Michael Cera.
Jonathan: I have no idea.
Ed: And that's it. That's who we are. There's a misconception still, just like there is
with comics, that this kind of thing is for kids or 20-somethings. And it's kind of downplayed.
Really, we're grownups. We have wives and girlfriends and houses and serious concerns
for humanity. But yea, we love Star Wars. We love comics.
Jonathan: It really started off as a Star Wars conversation.
Ed: Right.
Jonathan: How many years have you been running this podcast?
Ed: We did the first six years and it was all Star Wars. I can't believe how many people
said," I can't believe you have more than one show to talk about."
Jonathan: Yeah, I have a hard time talking about it for more than 20 minutes. I grew
up on the first three and then I'm dreading the coming three or however many more there
will be. Certainly, you'll probably have a lot more to talk about in the coming years
as we get ready for these next three fiascos.
Ed: Yeah, we talked the hell out of the old stuff. But there was still content being released
from the Star Wars group -- books and movies and games and TV shows. But we just found
that we hated it all and we were tired of being negative about it. So we actually stopped
the podcast. But we missed podcasting. We missed our fans. We missed reaching out. So
we started back up. The reboot was just general conversation. Unfortunately, despite what
everyone told us -- you could talk about refrigerators and we'll be there -- they weren't there.
So it really helps to have a clear message and identity beyond 'we're really cool guys.'
Jonathan: Let's break that down. It sounds like the first six years you had momentum
going and you had a significant audience. What would you say is that significant audience?
Ed: Yeah. We were killing. In retrospect, we were killing. We were three guys in Orlando
just geeking out. I try to have the best sounding, most well-produced show because there was
a lot out there back in the Wild, Wild West days of podcasting. Most of the formats, I
didn't like. I like NPR. So let's make it tight. And it works. We invited our audience
to have a conversation. We have voice mail. We have email. Anyway that we could reach
them, we would so they're on our side. And it doesn't just feel like we're talking to
each other with inside jokes. Also we were trying to campaign for a lot of our opinions.
So hopefully we would get a greater following and maybe even change the direction of the
brand. That was kind of the big goal. So yeah, it was going great for years. Again, unfortunately
we were getting really negative. It was getting harder and harder to do shows.
Jonathan: At that time, did you have sponsorships? Were you making any money on this thing?
Ed: No. Initially, if we did live shows, there was the potential to make money. There's inside
political things that were happening. While the show is really entertaining, behind the
scenes, it was really tough to get other people motivated basically to do more, to seek it
out.
Jonathan: Yeah, sometimes when you're not the solo ship that turns the podcast on, you've
got other people. Other people have other lives. And it's very hard to schedule interviews.
So I understand. You had two other members of your team, right?
Ed: Right. I had two co-hosts on top of, again, full-time job, comics, and some kind of little
social life happening. It was just a lot to juggle to do it all. We did our best to work
with what we had. Another thing is that there just weren't as many options as there are
now to make money from podcasts or social media. So it was all pretty limited. But now
we actually have a new co-host in Carl Watkins, who has had his own podcast for years. So
he's experienced. He's incredibly savvy as far as the web goes. So as we re-launched
this year, we have more of a focus. Again, it's the geeky adult, male or female. The
actual concerns for their beloved brands. Because some of it is why are women treated
like crap in comics? Let's have that conversation. What do you want to see? How do you feel about
it? But also there are so many avenues with which to get your message out there. Like
we're now recording on Hangouts, just as VOR will record on Hangouts. We plan on doing
a 4-day-a-week distribution of content. So record on Monday and then 15-minute shows
every day the rest of the week. And you can watch it on YouTube. You can have this video
experience. We try to definitely play to the camera. But at the same time, if you listen
to the audio, you're not really missing that much. You can take us with you wherever you
go. You can listen to us at work and not get busted for watching these geeks in their apartment.
Jonathan: Let's break that down for a second. You're saying that you do a full show on Monday
Ed: Yes.
Jonathan: How long is that show?
Ed: It will be a one-hour show.
Jonathan: And then you do 15 minutes every weekday?
Ed: That's the beauty of editing. We'll just chop it up into 15-minute segments and disperse
the original show into 15-minute segments. The goal is -- hopefully I don't get in trouble
here for ruining our secrets -- but the goal is to have the initial show on Hangouts, but
our research has shown that the smaller shows of 10 minutes or 15 minutes are getting the
most hits and are actually keeping users in their seats to watch them. Whereas before,
we would post our entire show. You can watch it whenever you want and that's great. But
a lot of people drop off after 20 minutes. With our format, you're getting a conversation,
but you're also getting us. So we're going to catch up, we're going to talk about funny
things because we try to be funny guys. We'll do voice mail. But if you came there to talk
about Sherlock, you're going to have to wait and people just don't like to wait. So we'll
be more descriptive with what to expect. You can jump to the next segment and that will
be conversation. But yeah, it's going to be much tighter. In this way, we will generate
Google money from YouTube and hopefully as we get the audio pieces out there, that will
start to come back and it will just start to snowball. That's the idea.
Jonathan: Without giving too much away about your strategy, where do those segments actually
go? Because obviously when you're filming it on Monday, it almost automatically goes
up on to YouTube. Like for us, I record the session in Goggle+ Hangouts. It then immediately
goes into YouTube. I extract out the mp3. I'll go through my whole list of what I do
just so that people know. We then put that full mp3 up on Spreaker with an intro and
an outro. I then add it to BlogTalkRadio. It gets uploaded to Soundcloud and Mixcloud.
I then send it for transcription and upon return, I put it up on Halyard (using the
Podcast Generator) and it also becomes its own article. Then it goes up to Geekcast.
I have a relationship with Affiliate Summit, the group over there, and they run Geekcast.net.
I then send it for a press release. Then that goes to PRWeb. Finally, the transcription
and the video goes out in my email list. So I'm always looking at other options. Obviously,
there's Facebook, and Twitter. We're doing all that. But I'm curious to see where this
15-minute segment goes.
Ed: We record the raw Hangouts and that will go up on YouTube. We will pull down the video
and edit those 15-minute segments. We have a template opening and closing, so we're always
getting a little something and then that will get uploaded the next day, every day after
that, etc. After talking to you about other options, we'll host it on our usual site because
the feed is already there. So every day in your iTunes, you'll get a new show delivered.
But at the time, we're going to be working on getting these shows distributed to Spreaker,
BlogTalkRadio, etc. We're just rebooting, but we'll get there eventually. Your process
is a lot more involved than ours.
Jonathan: Well, now you've given me another whole thing. The idea of now having a video
editor and somehow breaking a 40-minute podcast into four segments of 10 minutes. Hopefully,
somebody out on Fiverr is willing to break this up correctly for $20.
Ed: Right. There's another show that does this. They'll bring in a guest and start their
discussion and say, "Well, that's another show. We'll see you guys tomorrow." When really
they're just going to go...three, two, one. Alright. New show and "Welcome back." So we're
pretty much just going to do that. And it's going to feel ridiculous. But when you go
to see a TV show film, a lot of times, that's exactly what they're doing. The host will
come out and do his spiel and it's like, come on laugh. He walks off and comes back on wearing
a new jacket. And new joke.
Jonathan: Right. He does an entire week's worth of his show in 8 hours on one day.
Ed: So it's not unusual. It's not original. But we're trying to maximize these tried and
true techniques in order to keep the audience interested. And get new users -- people who
don't want to listen to two hours. And the other thing is when we first started and were
just Star Wars, we were weekly. So everybody knew that we would be there. We weren't live,
but usually by Wednesday, we would have it posted and you would get this hour and a half
to 2 hour show, all edited with your voice mails and your re-voice mails. People would
be like, "I'm right in the middle of the show. But I'm so upset. I need to call you." So
the next week, we would play the voice mails. We never pre-listened to them, so you'd get
a very raw reaction. And it really was working. People were giving us lots of great feedback.
Amazing mp3 quality things would be emailed to us. Skits would be emailed to us. But after
a while, like I said, I moved to Japan for two years. Then it was kind of sporadic as
to when we'd record. And if you're doing anything like this, any entertainment, it has to be
consistent. People need to know where to find you and when to find you. Or you're going
to completely lose them.
Jonathan: Right.
Ed: So Random Play was random and it was mostly my friends looking at it. But while it was
steady for a week, I was totally building momentum. But I got busier and then two weeks
later, I'd post. Not as many hits. And that's just something you need to keep in mind whether
it's comics or music or anything, especially on the web.
Jonathan: Absolutely. The web requires a constant stream. That's what it is. What's great about
what you're doing, now that you're revamping this, is that it is very similar. I know you
said, oh, only 20-somethings and under watch or listen or read comic books or whatever.
Look at how the society has changed from when we were growing up and we were reading Wolverine
and all that. And we were saying someday they're going to make a movie. Well, now, they make
those movies, for better or for worse, unfortunately. And we have Chris Hardwick of the Nerdist.
That is an enormous brand. I don't think we even understand what the scope of that really
is. Now you're revamping something that essentially was the Nerdist prior to the success he had
seen. That's really incredible.
Ed: Before there was the Nerdist, that was exactly our plan. We wanted to be the Nerdist.
We were guys who would go out and buy a R2-D2 guy and be like, "I don't get it. Why is it
painted like this? This is stupid. We should do a comic." And then it was "We should do
a podcast." And off we went.
Four for Friday: Questions Everyone is Asked
Jonathan: That's fantastic. Before ending, I always have to do my Four for Friday. This
is something I implemented a couple of weeks ago to great success. Its four questions.
You'll like them. Question No.1: What is your idea of perfect Internet happiness? Remember
this is a family show. You've already said a word that we'll probably have to bleep at
some point. So what is your idea of perfect Internet happiness?
Ed: My Internet Utopia?
Jonathan: Yes. I ask these broad, generalized questions. It's almost a Rorschach test. I'm
not going to give you any information as to what I'm looking for. You just go ahead and
tell me what you think.
Ed: What's beautiful about the Internet is that there's as much good as bad that happens
on the Internet. You see the best of humanity come out. You see like a light shine on causes
that you've never heard of. And everybody is now aware of it and people are feeling
great about supporting these things and putting this garbage out in the open if it helps someone
else. And that is a wonderful lovely thing. As a person who is allergic to cats, I love
that I can enjoy cats without having them in my face. I love their attitude. My God,
they're hysterical. I mean, without getting into censorship, what I would like is with
all the instant truth that happens on the Internet, the total just exposure of the human
condition, I would hope that it helps to make people more self- aware. No, you're being
a troll. You're a jerk. And nobody likes that. You're not funny. And your other jerk friends?
They're just jerks. This is harmful. So my dream is that more positive will come out
of this.
Jonathan: What is your greatest Internet regret?
Ed: The biggest regret. I don't know if it's an Internet regret as much as that it's just
who I am. Once I decided to make the full jump, well the full part-time jump, into comics,
everything else got pushed aside. I didn't care if I went out on weekends anymore. Everything
was about what I could do to make these things happen and get more people to see them. So
my Internet regret is that I wish I'd networked more when I started. I wish I knew then what
I know now so that I could maximize the people viewing my book so that I wouldn't have to
worry about a daytime job and I could just be a comic artist and have a loyal following.
Because people do that. Danielle Corsetto has a comic called "Girls with Slingshots."
It's a bit on the dirty side, but it's a fun, slice of life strip. She has great interaction
with her fans. She has merchandise. She's on every day with new stuff. It's funny and
she's doing it. That is her life.
Jonathan: So she's working every single day and she's making money through merchandising
and probably has advertising on the site.
Ed: And books and conventions. Absolutely.
Jonathan: But when she started, the first two years, she was probably having soup every
day. Or she's either married to somebody who is able to support her or her family is able
to support her. These overnight successes are anything but. So I think hard work and
determination when you have the solid base underneath you is a rapid thing that can happen.
But without that, you're struggling terribly.
Ed: I feel the struggle is necessary for people to really achieve anything. If you have everything,
then you don't want anything.
Jonathan: We've been out of school for almost 20 years. When you look at it now, it almost
feels like we were shouting in the wind trying to gain an audience with absolutely no traction
whatsoever. Whereas now, we can build a Facebook page and slowly generate interest in the work
that we're doing or the daily comic. There's an easiness to the marketing now that wasn't
there previously. And you tend to gain a very core, dedicated audience.
Ed: Yes.
Jonathan: Question No. 3: What do you consider your greatest Internet achievement?
Ed: I would say the podcast, Voice of the Republic. I'm the most proud of it. I love
that beyond showing off, most guys want to do a radio show when they grow up. So beyond
just putting ourselves out there and trying to be funny guys, we're really connecting
with people about things that they care about and our energy is coming back to us sometimes
twofold. People really cared about us and about our show. Therefore, it rolls into what
are you guys working on? When does your book come out? I want that.
Jonathan: Is there a book coming out? Are you going to do something like that?
Ed: I'm not going to get into it here, but because we are now into 2014 and print is
dying, I love a good comic book and amazing books are coming out all the time. However,
I'm changing my approach mostly because of the overhead we talked about earlier. I may
not do a physical book again unless it's print on demand. But I don't really plan on dishing
out a lot of money for a box of books that will sit in my house.
Jonathan: Look, the faster you turn with the trend, the less money you end up flushing
down the toilet.
Ed: Yeah, I want to flush money down the toilet at a much slower speed.
Jonathan: As artists, we're always flushing money down the toilet, but it's just a question
of how much and how quickly. Finally, the last question: What is your favorite Internet
book?
Ed: A book about the Internet?
Jonathan: Well, something that changed your perception about the Internet or your usage
of the Internet. I'm not talking about a code book, but something that maybe you read. Maybe
it's not even an Internet book. Maybe it's an art book that you made you say, "Oh, I've
got to go in this direction."
Ed: Yeah, I'm an artist and for me, it's been a very organic journey. I try to look for
success stories in my work and in my industry, as well as in people. I'm not that fast of
a worker. It takes time to do what I do, what most of us do in comics. So I would rather
spend that time trying to make this look better and then putting out a better product. I've
been lucky to surround myself with people who really know what they're talking about.
I learned a long time ago that it doesn't hurt to ask for help. I couldn't do any of
this without the help of much smarter people. Hopefully, I show that love back to them because
I would just be nowhere with them. I would probably be at some miserable catalog job
and contemplating suicide. Dark, dark things.
Jonathan: This has been great. It is so good to catch up with you. We will have to talk
off-line after this interview. I'll do my outro for everyone who's been listening now.
I appreciate all of you. Thank you so much.
Outro
Again, this is Jonathan Goodman and this is the World of Internet Marketing. You can follow
me @HalyardConsult on Twitter. New episodes of the World of Internet Marketing can be
heard every Friday. You can access the archives of my previous shows on Spreaker.com -- user
name Jonathan Goodman. The podcast is also available with transcription at halyardconsulting.com
and geekcast.fm one week after the episode airs. Thank you all for listening to another
episode of The World of Internet Marketing. Don't forget to pick up my book The World
of Internet Marketing on Amazon, and if you like this podcast please share it with your
network of friends and family. Have a great week.