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jbjb m Kevin French. I work for Caress. I am a project director and I have been based
in Dagenham since nineteen ninety-seven. Tina? Hi, I m Tina Crosby. Em, I ve been in Barking
for, on and off, for
the last ten years. I ran into Kevin about, what, a year ago? Thereabouts? Yeah, just
over a year. And, slowly slowly got involved the Forum and what we do here at the hub.
Right. Tell us about the Forum Kevin. The LGBT Forum s, em, originally was, sparked
off by the Council, Barking & Dagenham Council, who then approached us at Caress because we
had, at that time, we only had LGB services. We didn t actually have any T services, em,
and that highlighted the issue, and, so then we expanded out our services, and we got involved
in setting up the Forum with the Council. They em, they then actually found a small
amount of money which enabled us to actually get some equipment and that and expanding
better, because we, it was after a lot of consultation, and various projects that were
run by the Council, it discovered that actually the LGBT community in Barking and Dagenham
wanted a place of their own where they could meet and feel safe. So, we, we opted, em,
with loads of volunteers as well, it wasn t just Caress, em, and we eventually found
this place, and it s been a lot of hard work, and screaming and shouting, and hehe, didn
t think we d get here and, we secured this place. So how did you get involved in LGBT
work, initially. Initially. Caress was originally set up by the health authority for people
with ***, and it s basically a community support services. And it was, if you like, it was
a natural progress, progression because we had a lot of, at that time, in the early days,
because it was seen as a gay disease, or what ever you want to call it that, em so they,
those customers, they actually wanted nothing related to ***. They, you know, they wanted
to meet people like ourselves. Just gay, bisexual, whatever. And that, that s how it developed.
So then we had gay men s group. Then we thought, oh, hang on, there s gay men, then there s
lesbians as well that wanted services. And that s how it started expanding and so now
we just, we re so, we, we are a *** health service and we have an LGBT division. So there,
we have sorts, if you like, there s a bit a segregation but that is because that s what
the community asks for. It s not, it wasn t the organisation s decision. And that came
about because of the Forum as well. Because people attending the Forum, we don t like
the idea that, if you like, LGBT relating to *** health. So it was another reason
we needed a separate place that belonged to men. So Tina, you didn t come from that, kind
of LGBT services, em, area, but em, how did *** kind of affected your lifestyle. My lifestyle
personally? It hasn t, *** hasn t affected it at all. Er, I ran into Kevin at a PCT focus
group which I was asked to go to by a friend of mine to represent the LGBT community because
we needed more people there for that particular part of the focus group. And we got talking
throughout the day, sat around and insulted each other for half an hour, found out where
the sense of humour was and and, that s where it fell from. Er, I also ran into Michelle
who is our Centre Manager here, and then, I thought, OK, I want to get more involved.
When I first came back to Barking, what, two, two and a half years ago, I d been segregated
completely from from the trans world, the LGBT world. I sort of walked away from it,
thinking it is now time to start life fresh. And when I came back here, I sort of, OK,
I can t do that because there are so many people that were in my position when I started
out, and if I hadn t had people that had been done the road, I would never have made it.
So it it, you get to, almost distinct definition or divisions in, within the trans community
where you some people that would walk away once they ve completed their transition and
they want nothing more to do with it. That s it. I m female. End of story. And I have
nothing against them. That s how they want to live their lives. I have the, the feeling
that if there s not somebody to hold your hand you gonna fall. You don t have to have
your hand held but if you reach out and there s nobody there to catch you, you are going to fall, and it s my job to stop
people falling if they need me cause, you, if I hadn t had people there, I would have
fallen. So, that s that s where I started out from and Kevin mentioned that there was
no sort of trans sector to the hub here, and, OK, between Michelle, meself and Kevin, we
started to organise the trans awareness group. Er, we, we re organising a clothing project.
It s somewhere that people come with, not just for advise but just to find out, I m
not the only one, because that really is the most isolating feeling and everybody goes
through it. So what was your experience when you had the transition. I have to say I was
one of the very lucky ones. Em, obviously you go through the the problems of family
break up and, you know, turning round to people saying, no, this is not a new way of asking
for divorce. I m sorry but this isn t me. Em I was very lucky at work. I work within
a community where if we haven t seen it, it hasn t happened, that s the casino world,
and, very much, it was taken everybody sort of took it in their stride, apart from the
initial shock when you sit down and do briefings with people. And then, I was open to questions.
I m very open about who I am and you ve got questions, you ask me and I ll answer them.
If you don t want the answer, don t ask the question. So I take it that you were married
before. I was married for thirteen years and have, er one son of my own, stepson and, I
was very very lucky that I had the trust that they loved me enough to, to see through it.
And, as it turns out, I did. My ex-wife is now my best friend. My fifteen year old son
is absolutely fantastic, and my twenty year old son will not allow me to go out and carry
a bag. They ve made that whole transitions with me and they ve made it like that. And,
how strong was this yearning to change, to, over and when did it start. OK. This is going
to sound very scriptive but I ve told this story so many times, so I apologise if it
sounds pre-arranged because it s not. It s just retelling and retelling. It s the one
question that people ask. How did you know. When did you know. And if you ask any trans
person, their answer will basically be the same. I knew from when I was knee high to
a grasshopper. Basically, as soon as I knew the difference between the pink ones, and
the blue ones. And I knew that I didn t fit into the blue ones so I should be the pink
one. But the problem was, everybody thought I was the blue one. So you live up to it.
You learn to play football. You learn to, I don t know, ride bikes and fight with other
boys. You you learn to live into the character that people think you have, whilst always
inside knowing that, well, this doesn t quite fit. I don t know if anybody got their the
picture in their head. It s like wearing a wet suit that is just either one size too
big or one size too small. You re either incredibly constricted or you just rattle around inside.
It just doesn t fit like a skin that it should. And, you you rationalise it and then you hit
puberty and you think, well, it s a mixture of total and utter disappointment. And you
think, well everybody must have these feelings because it can t just be me. I might, everybody
must be the same. And you just live up to the image that you re given. And then, as
you get older, you rationalise it away and you put it away and you hide in the open.
You you do the things that men do, you know. But but it s generally two extremes. You become,
I I was, joined the military. I became a sort of pocket Rambo, and that was my way of hiding.
If I m prepared to stand there and shoot at somebody, you re not question my, my gender
identity. And when I left, I I got into the casino trade, which is very very open. As
I said, if we haven t seen it, it hasn t happened. We see all sorts of people. And I could carry
a character to work. I was a totally different person behind a roulette table. I was the
life and soul of the party. When at home, I was an absolute control freak. Looking back,
I was a nightmare to live with. And it was simply because I couldn t control what was
going on in my life so I was going to control everything around me. Everybody else s life
would be horrific. My wife had a family bereavement and went over to South Africa with the children
for a three month period in two thousand ooh five. Four. Er you can edit that out. Four.
Can you edit that out as well. Eh, new, new exhaust please. But, they went to, to South
Africa in two thousand and four and I d reach that point in my life where I said, right,
I m going to make this go away. I m going to give it it s head for two months. I m going
to basically be who I am for two months while I m, on my own. I went out. I bought some
clothes. I bought some make-up. I bought the wig and, I spent three hours in front of a
mirror in the bedroom trying to produce what I saw as a natural make-up scheme. I didn
t want to be Danny La Rue. I did not want to be Lily Savage. I wanted to be me in colour.
And it took me about three hours until I got the effect that I wanted. I walked out of
the bedroom, realised I d left my phone on the bed, walked back into the bedroom, picked
the phone up, and as I looked in the mirror, just caught sight, and for the first time
in my life, I recognised the person looking back at me. My legs gave way and I sat on
the bedroom floor and I cried for about two hours. Kevin. What image did you live up to.
Or had to live up to. Hehe. I don t think I did actually. I. I think I m really selfish,
to be honest because I didn t. I didn t, em I didn t, I didn t enjoy lots of sports and
things like that. Ya, OK, I was a boy at school and that. The thing that I did love was rugby.
Nothing to do it was men or anything like that. I used to enjoy that. Rest of the stuff
I weren t interested in. actually I do remember something from junior school. One of my reports,
end of the year reports I think I was probably about seven or eight, and one, one of the
teachers had written in there, Kevin tends to have effeminate tendencies. I know it wouldn
t be allowed these days. But I didn t, I was so thick, I didn t even know what that meant.
So I had to go home and ask my grandmother. Em I think the way she explained it was, that
means you re a sissy boy. Hehehehe And er, I I remember actually I cried, just that.
I mean, that is it. The only thing I remember. Em, when I actually came out, which was years
later when I realised, em I I, yes, I did try to be like normal . I had girlfriends
and that. But I just knew something wasn t right. And it was all the same. It just happened,
all of a sudden I just thought, this, I actually said to the girl, something s wrong here.
Something s not right. I didn t know what it was. And er, so she was like, I, I d just
carry on I was at work and I, I didn t have relationships with anyone. Er, you know, and
then I just so yeah. That s right. I quite, quite comfortable with men, things like that,
but I, I m not solely men. I m quite comfortable with anyone s company and that. So, you know,
the equality that s come about. That s ideal for me. Because I love it. I don t like being
segregated, so Em, but, yeah, I, I don t I don t like this labelling lark and that so.
Maybe, I m slightly different there because I never have. I used to be, I used to work
in catering and so, there s a mixture of people in there, genders, sexualities and that. So,
maybe that was easier for me, then I moved out and went on to what classed as a masculine
job. at the time, then use it. PAGE PAGE gdd: gdd: gdd: gdd: &`#$ gdd: gdd: :pd: NATALIE
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