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ALLATRA TV presents
PROGRAMME about the most important things
DIALOGUE frankly and honestly
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a programme for everyone
THE MEANING OF LIFE: IMMORTALITY
The previous episode of A Frank Dialogue about the Most Important Things,
with the participation of our guests – academician and professor Igor Mikhailovich Danilov
and Mitred Archpriest, rector of the Church of St. Archistratigus Michael, Father Sergiy
caused a lot of interest among viewers from different countries,
who live on various continents.
The questions it raised and our guests' answers
have truly become widely discussed, international.
In the first days since the programme came out on the Internet,
tens of thousands of people viewed it.
Many viewers from different countries of the world reported unusually good state of being,
inspiration after viewing the programme, inner sense of fullness,
a deep understanding of many questions that are vitally important for them.
For many, this programme became a guiding light
on their path of knowing the true life and themselves,
and opened a door to the primordial Knowledge about the world and man.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
Hello, you are watching the programme From Soul to Soul.
And today our guests are Igor Mikhailovich Danilov,
Hello.
– Hello.
and Father Sergiy. - Hello.
Peace to you.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
After the programme aired,
many people began to express their great gratitude
to you for unveiling these important topics.
Because, indeed, today a person, while living his life, right?...
- May I make a comment? - Yes
We didn't say anything new.
Absolutely nothing.
In order to say something new, one must announce it.
What was said in the last programme, either by Father Sergiy or by me, that was new?
Anything at all?
- Well, for example... - That which people have not been told before?
– I guess everything was told, only probably
they didn't hear it, didn't pay attention to it.
– As always, right? Listening but not hearing.
– Indeed, after the programme, as you correctly said,
which spoke of that, which had been repeated many times before,
that which had been written, which today is available to the public, for each person.
But really, after the programme, it was such an impulse,
which lifted the inner state of many people.
It can be seen by the letters and by the responses they are sending.
It really is like a breath of fresh air.
A lot of people are sending letters about the fact that while watching the programme again and again…
They watch it once, watch it twice, and every time they see it from some other side.
- Well, there is a little truth here. That no matter how many times you watch it,
you will always find something new. It depends on the state in which you're viewing it.
It all depends on with what eyes you are watching it.
And with what ears you are listening to it.
On the mood, on the person, how much he is mired in the material
and how spiritually free he is.
Every time he will find something new. This is true.
But nothing new was said.
Everything that was said, has been written for them on the hand more than once.
It should have been enough to simply open it and read.
But people always want to hear.
To read, understand and comprehend by oneself is kind of difficult.
They always want somebody to show the way,
to walk ahead, so they can follow.
This is the situation we have today, so to speak.
People have been weaned away from making decisions,
taking responsibility, and acting on their own.
I won't say who, but for very many years,
a whole system of some people was engaged in appropriating that
which should be available to all.
Well, and then "Susanins" showed up – people who lead others astray.
- It's interesting, you said about the state in which a person is viewing the programme.
Also, a lot of people noted that after watching the programme,
indeed, some kind of inspiration appears.
Some kind of powers act right here and now.
- Well, the reason lies, in this case, in that
we are using digital television.
Now, if we were recording on film,
the result would have been worse.
This is true, this is really... This is because of... well, that's okay...
it is physics, it's not interesting.
No matter how many times it is copied,
the digital media,
everything that is put into it, it doesn't disappear.
It stays. And the effect is really preserved.
It's not some kind of manipulative technologies, NLP and so on.
The problem is, in this case, in my point of view,
people are listening with ears. There is no inner hearing.
There is no perception with feelings. And that is a real problem.
If today, there were more people that could communicate… well, let's put it this way,
maybe it’s not entirely correct, but – communicate directly, without any...
with the spiritual world, yes? And communicate with each other not with a cellphone
and Internet, over Skype and so on.
But as it should be for man, right?
Like, we are communicating verbally, right? We are talking,
we need to pronounce some words,
to cause some molecular waves, which will reach our ears,
then all of it via a signal reaches the brain,
produces associations, and in this way, we understand.
That is, we use the mechanical and chemical part
of our body in order to hear each other.
But in order to understand one another,
we use superstructures,
a bit more complex… which go to the level of consciousness
And here, let's say, the physical part of our body no longer plays a part.
Today, thank God, it is no longer a secret,
consciousness is not just the brain, it's a lot more complex.
And many neurophysiologists have already come to understand this
and are working in this direction.
Still, their own consciousness is resisting it.
Well, this is something for the future.
People are able to hear and see each other,
let's put it this way, with spiritual eyes and spiritual ears.
That is, at the level of perception with feelings.
This is really so. And there they get the whole picture.
But here, still, the viewer is on the other side
and we're sitting here talking, the three of us.
Well, not counting those who are helping us, our respected cameramen here.
And so forth. We are not a large number of people in this room.
And so we are recording and having a certain conversation.
But we don't notice -- if you look from the perspective of three-dimensionality,
we don't notice that audience that will watch us.
who will, let's put it this way, join our conversation.
But if we had been perceiving this internally, we would feel each person.
Since the concept of space, time, distance, and so on,
It plays a role only in this dimension.
Here, yes, there is point A and point B,
here is a gap through which we can pass.
These are periods of time.
Distance – again, we're located here
in an enclosed room, with a certain number of people.
We can talk to each other, have a conversation,
argue about something, and other people
who are located, let's say, on the other side, who will be watching
based on this moment, for us, it is supposedly the future.
But the point is, again, this is only three-dimensionality.
If we look at least a few positions higher
well... the level of the sixth dimension, let's say.
I understand that this will provoke indignation in a lot of people.
The septon field... it always does.
That is, human consciousness always gets agitated about such moments
how can I hear and so forth?
Let's fantasize, if that's all right with you.
I will continue. Excuse my digression, it's just
that the point is that and what I am getting to is that
at the level of perception with feelings, all the people who, regardless of
the number of years, will be watching this programme,
it touches at point A.
That is, our segment right now is point A.
There is point B when it comes out on TV, then C, D and so on.
So this whole alphabet, it all adjoins this moment.
If we look a bit, a higher level, like I said before.
I understand that for many it's not entirely clear,
and even from the perspective of physics, adding complexity by some order –
it only... in the understanding of contemporary physics, it only
complicates the geometry... This is not true.
It doesn't complicate geometry. Well, let's say,
at the level of the sixth dimension, there is so much complexity
that the beginning touches the end. Well, and there’s this kind of circular movement.
And the concept of time becomes vague.
The concept of distance – well, it becomes ridiculous altogether.
That's why what I was just talking about
it all boils down to one thing: that if people are able to feel each other,
then we won't have such a distance and time gaps.
Why is that? Because it is very easy to feel this.
One can feel what people want to hear, what they are going through,
one can even feel indignation.
And one can even feel significant indignation of some people.
Especially... not so much in my direction. What do I have to do here?
I am a simple guy. I just do massages and treat people, right?
I help. And I philosophise. I was invited, I liked it here.
And here I am for a second time, to talk about medicine.
Well, and a little bit... I'm sitting here and philosophising.
What to ask of me? A masseur is just a masseur.
But, for the Father here, there are a lot of questions.
Why is the person who should be defending the positions of the church and all that,
he is taking part in the coven.
It's not everybody, it's just for some people.
And some are even saying that the Father is not real...
He is real, truly. If I pinch him, he may fight back.
And what does it mean? This means that he's real.
- Real.
- Yes, real. Truly.
That’s the point. But what makes people talk about it? By the way, mostly those are outraged
who consider themselves to be spiritually...
to have the right... not just spiritual, but those who consider themselves to have the right
to teach spirituality to other people.
But they forget such a, let's say... I will just give an example, yes?
Prior to discussing someone, you first must get a feel for who you are talking to, at least that.
Even if he can't see you, it doesn't mean he can't hear you.
That's first of all. And secondly,
who was most indignant? The Orthodox people –
Christians, not only Orthodox people were indignant.
And there still is indignation from some other people regarding
the first programme, they will still continue
from this point. Then they will soon end.
Everything ends. As we’ve already said, nothing is eternal under the Moon.
But I would just advise, simply as a human being, not for any particular reason,
to re-read the Gospel of Matthew.
In it there is, in Chapter 12, especially...
well, verse 31 and 32... well, reread attentively, before discussing someone, right?
And so, we move away from the subject of who is discussing whom and so forth.
I think that those who consider themselves to be
spiritual people... I was just defending the Father.
Notice, he hasn't said a word, yes?
- He is quiet.
- We’re not letting him.
But this was about the discussion of the previous programme, right?
We're talking about the past.
What he earns now, that's already a different matter.
And we started talking about the Gospel in defence of certain people.
And because, still, people get the desire to argue and discuss.
The most interesting thing is what provokes such hatred in people?
What provokes malice in people? Because this is evil –
discussing someone.
Why do people control themselves so poorly?
Why don't they tune it to the perception through feelings, yes?
Although, of course, it's difficult - I agree.
A person who is tuned to the material, who lives by the material world,
whose thoughts, deeds and actions are conditioned only by three-dimensionality.
Well, of course, it's a little difficult for him to open before the spiritual world, to feel something.
Especially, to understand, realise... well, it's scary. I think we discussed this in the last programme
that it's not convenient for people. People want to be perceived as spiritual,
but they don't want to be such.
- To seem instead of to be.
- Yes, to seem instead of to be. Unfortunately, this is true.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- Igor Mikhailovich touched upon such an interesting topic of spiritual perception of man.
Well, as it's written in the Holy Scriptures, he who has ears – let him hear,
he who has eyes – let him see.
And our audience that is listening to us and watching us,
of course, they have a lot of questions, and the difficulty of perception of our dialogue
is because a person starts evaluating what is happening
from the perspective of his, well, possibly, some knowledge.
- Experience. His life experience.
- And he relies on his experience but he relies not even on knowledge
but on what he saw or heard somewhere,
what he caught a glimpse of something, and he saw that and,
this is like the blind groping an elephant,
and the problem is that a person cannot cast away the trivial husk that's in his head
and to turn on the very feelings. To feel...
what is happening. All of us consider each other
well, in the first place, each person considers himself to be,
practical and logical. That is, they start to build up logic.
But if we approach it from the viewpoint of
creating everything, well, how people see this,
we create out of the mind, we build with our logic, and that's where a problem arises.
Because all the logic comes from all the philosophising there is in the world.
That is why, he who has ears doesn't hear anything,
because he tries to give work to his brain, which then starts logical construction.
But we need to have spiritual ears, namely that which we call intuition, the "sixth sense",
that is exactly those human perceptions with feelings,
which should be working in him in the first place.
Because even coming to the temple and speaking about some spirituality,
people, again, hope to have someone else do the work for them.
Like, I came, I prayed, and the Lord will do everything.
- Yes... that it's enough to perform a certain ritual to attain a certain result.
The desired result, let's put it this way.
But rites are just an external performance, like "shamanic dances" in three-dimensionality.
There is no difference. If there is no deeper work, if there is no perception through feelings,
if there is no, as Father Sergiy said, "hearing", the inner hearing (perception),
then nothing will come of it.
A person can only hope that he communicates and that God hears him.
Let's put it this way... well...
I will give a simple example.
Let us imagine this picture:
You are trying to verbally explain something to someone who is deaf an blind.
Will it work?
- Probably not.
- Why is that?
- He won't see, he won't hear. There is no this external perception which allows to perceive information.
- They don't have associations.
- Correct. They don't have experience in this. That's the problem.
And indeed, many people today – they are seeking,
striving towards God. They feel that it's necessary.
They feel the illusory nature of this world, the unfairness of this world.
They understand that there is something higher, bigger, deeper and more serious,
that there is something which has no beginning and no end.
This is true. They perceive this.
But, again, they're proceeding from the experience that was given to them,
the experience that they have.
They are proceeding from what they were taught. But what were they taught?
Were they taught to hear with the inner? Were they taught to communicate among themselves
Not verbally? But through the spiritual world.
Like, we're communicating now, yes? Among ourselves over the Internet.
But this is just a poor parody of that boundlessness
and the boundlessness of those opportunities.
I will say even more: today, there are many people who consider themselves to be spiritual.
It doesn’t matter to what religion he belongs. Man is striving, he is walking the path.
There are many paths, right? But all of them lead to the same gates, which are very narrow.
They are narrow not because they're "narrow",
they're narrow in the understanding of three-dimensionality.
But they're much wider than we can imagine this.
And entering them is much simpler than some would want it to be.
The question is different: why do people not hear, not feel,
and not perceive the spiritual world?
And the answer is very simple: they don't know how, they don't know it.
Many really want to. To say that nobody wants to… no, this is not true.
Very many people want to.
I know a lot of people... I will say, for the more advanced ones...
before we were discussing that dots and ellipsis, it all comes down to one, yes?
And today, at this very moment, many people are knocking at the door,
they are trying to come in,
but how can you knock on the door which has no density? Right?
Well, that's what you should knock with: use something hard for hard, and soft for soft,
spiritual for spiritual.
But when we try to use something hard to knock at the spiritual, we touch emptiness.
And many people say: "Why is God not answering?"
What do you mean, he's not answering? He is answering.
Well, here is a simple example (it is not correct,
it's associative, I forewarn you), but it gives understanding.
If you walk up to, and in the language you know,
address a Chinese child, will he understand you?
- No.
- Why?
- There’s no experience, no understanding of this language.
- Of course. Neither you will understand his answer, nor he will understand yours.
But you will at least hear each other, right?
And now imagine, you walk up to a deaf Chinese person and at that moment, you've gone mute.
It’s not going to work.
The same situation is happening today with the spiritual searches of people.
They are traveling places, running around and studying,
some believe in what they have been told.
They are trying to do it, many times a day.
They're working, doing what they're told by their earthly teachers.
But there is no progress.
And people feel this, people understand this, that there is no progress.
There is faith, there is obedience, there is aspiration – there’s no result.
That's the problem.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- Thing is that every day, every hour, every second, people are going past God.
The whole world is permeated by God.
I've already said and will repeat the words of Jesus Christ:
"Lift up the stone, and He is there, split a piece of wood – he is there."
But people, without having knowledge, without having experience,
they just do not see – they walk on by.
Because people are preoccupied with some kind of material problems of their own.
- And here, once again, we are facing what? A direct instruction.
That is, a person lifts up a stone and there he must see God.
- Well, there is no "must" about it, he can see if he has such an intent inside him.
- If a person has inner intention, he doesn't need to lift up a stone...
- He knows this.
- That's what the difference.
- And why the stone?
- But there must be an impetus.
- Impetus, of course. And here we are faced with the process of teaching, learning,
and passing down that elementary knowledge to people.
When we expressed ourselves in something...
In the previous programme, we touched upon the subject of the "silver thread”
(the topic arose by accident... but it caused a wave of interest in people and so on).
Some are asking: “Where is it mentioned" and the like.
- How to find it, yes?
- Of course, to put it simply...
- There is a mention in the Gospels.
“…he who has not lost the silver thread and not ruined the golden vessel”…
- Well, it’s a little bit different, this...
- Well, this is already in context of understanding of the human language...
from the spiritual point of view...
- Yes.. In the Ecclesiastes, chapter 12, verse 6, it's written about this there, in a very distorted version.
Even the distortion of the modern language from Old Slavonic is already noticeable.
- Already there.
- Of course, it's there. And such an interpretation.
And Old Slavonic, (this is, again, translated), but in the original it sounds different still.
And where they copied it from when they were writing it...
- Even more different...
- It sounds completely different.
And that is how we are losing it all, we’re losing this understanding, these subtleties,
and, in the end, a person already hopes that, if he became a spiritual person,
that is, spiritual meaning what: helping old ladies cross the street..
- Doing good deeds...
- Certainly. Giving 10% tithe to the church,
doing good deeds, don't curse the neighbour, and that's it – I'm a good guy.
I should go outside, lift up a brick... and there’s a worm there; there’s no God there.
That’s the problem, yes? Why do I see the worm and I don't see God?
- Because there is no knowledge and no experience.
- Of course.
- No perception of that spiritual world.
- Certainly. And not only that. The interpretation is different, too.
That is, if before they could talk about the fact
that whatever you lift up, anywhere you look – there is life.
And life is a continuation of… albeit a temporary one, but this is existence,
but behind this life stands the One, who gives this life.
And if we delve deeper and there (well, let's say, getting smaller in fractals),
we come to understand the spiritual world, which created the material world, yes?
Here there can come an understanding, and the modern person is educated,
he is a little more educated, in any case, he considers himself to be such,
he understands that he knows some laws, something else, physics,
he works with electricity, knows (heard about) gravity,
electromagnetic field and so on; what does he need?
What he needs is: “Show me God".
If I pick up a brick, there should be a guy with a beard there. After all, he is one.
That is, what is everyone's perception?
"If I don't see him there, and if I can't ask him for something and he doesn't do it for me,
then there is no God there. I picked up a brick, it's empty there. Why is that?
If I pick up a brick and there’s a goldfish there,
that makes my wishes come true – that's it, God exists.”
There is this consumer attitude even towards God and so on.
And again, inner blindness and deafness, and that’s a problem.
We are again returning to this, why?
People from childhood... They are not taught this,
nobody tells them or shows them – such is the world.
That's one side, and the other side is choice.
The concept of "choice" and "freedom" are exactly about
this is the higher understanding of freedom nobody imposes anything on anyone.
The spiritual world cannot impose on anyone,
and say "don't sit this way, sit up straight”. Well, I can say this as a spine specialist.
Yes, it will be better for your health."
- Thank you...
But if I say to you "sit up straight, breathe every other time,
and you will become spiritually enlightened".
Well, that's a bunch of nonsense.
You can stand on your head but you won't become a spiritual person
if you don't engage in your inner development.
And I mean WORK on your inner development,
every second, as Father Sergiy said, in every hour, every moment.
That is, you may not lose that perception through feelings of the spiritual world,
because you cannot calculate it with the mind, logic doesn't work here.
Here, there is perception through feelings. Again, we are touching
upon that "perception through feelings", which should be developed
as a result of prayers, as a result of meditative practices. For example, mantras.
And mantras are everywhere. Anywhere where there’s a prayer and so on,
everywhere there is the concept of mantra.
Well, mantra is a more ancient expression than a prayer.
Again, this is a certain repetition, but it's the same autogenic training,
if we simplify it, with a repetition of certain words.
Let's take the Jesus prayer, yes? What should it cause?
A person should feel the spiritual world.
He should feel the inner component of Jesus Christ.
This means, he should anyway feel the spiritual world.
And then, grabbing on to this feelings, these subtle inner deepest vibrations,
they will allow him to truly reach the perception of the spiritual world.
But what do we encounter?
We are faced with the fact that people want to seem...
- But not be...
- But not be... right?
Or he tried, but thoughts distracted him.
Do you understand? And he suddenly wants some borscht with buns!
What kind of Jesus prayer can we speak of here?
I will eat some pork fat first, and then I’ll go pray.
- Even in the teachings of the Saints, we can, let's say...
no matter how many of them there are, still, there are a few genuine Saints.
We can come across that teaching, for example, of Serafim of Sarov. As he says:
"Why do you bow and wail: "Lord, have mercy",
If you don't have the concept of contact with God,
all of your prayers and all your pilgrimages are futile
if you don't feel God inside.
So, he was talking about the fact that
practically all the people here are performing rituals.
Why do they go to church? It's fashionable.
Why do they do that? Because they're shifting their responsibility to someone.
That is, they don't have their own feeling, their own sense of a dialogue with God.
And God can only be where? - Only inside. The dialogue with him can only be internal.
But if there is no such contact, this divine silver thread,
then all the work is useless, it is all futile.
Because, even if we go further: what is human freedom? It’s the right of choice.
This is a very… for modern world, for politicians,
for priests, this is a dangerous concept of freedom.
Because a person seeking freedom, he kind of becomes
uncontrollable by the material system.
- May I? Not "seeking", but one who is "becoming" free.
- Becoming free, yes...
- A spiritually free person...
- For a system, he becomes...
- For system...
- Yes, for a system he becomes kind of dangerous. But again, nobody can force a person.
Man owes nothing to anyone. This is what God-given right of freedom is.
Why does the Lord not interfere in human affairs?
Everyone is waiting, summoning some kind of miracles.
But he cannot interfere. That is, His love is so great, that He cannot influence choice.
That is, there are certain conditions.
But, contact and communication with God depends on what choice a person makes,
what path he will take.
That's why the Lord says: 'if you are hot or you are cold, I know what to give you.
But if you are warm, what should I give you?"
- That means, you’re still alive.
- Yes.
- If you're hot -- you're sick, if cold -- dead.
Warm means alive, in our understanding. Well, this is closer to us as medical professionals, right?
- While communicating with many people, let's say,
with those who have already touched the spiritual world,
in the dialogue, one may hear... at first glance, may be a strange expression:
that the "world has come to a deadlock”.
And, we can observe this everywhere: in politics, in economy, in religion.
And, look, the religion started to get simpler.
That is, by losing the knowledge, religion started to simplify itself.
Economy started to get more complex. Politicians don't know what to do, so conflicts are brewing.
And it is clearly visible that people are waiting, maybe for some kind of coming of Messiah.
That is, waiting for someone to come and solve this issue.
But, the thing is that, people, while waiting for some kind of events, are again
looking for some profit in it for themselves.
- To shift responsibility...
- Here arises another issue: people are indeed waiting, but they themselves do not want it.
In reality, they are waiting in fear.
They are used to living this way, for them this world is comprehensible,
and the other world, and a different way of existence is incomprehensible to them.
And they are not just waiting, but – let' say, with longing – but they are also afraid of it.
That's why they simply do not hear. That's the problem.
The problem is that the stereotypes imposed upon a modern man's consciousness
force man to exist exactly within those limits, which have been set for him, nothing more.
I think, the main problem here is not that there is no Knowledge and so on -- it's all there.
Communication with, for example, spiritual world or with God – well, this is written in all the religions.
It's impossible to come, to bring, to tell anything new. Everything was told, given and so forth long time ago.
Well, say, communication with, for example, spiritual world or with God?
No need to go far. Let's take, for instance, Christianity.
In the Gospel of John, chapter 4, verse 24, yes? Elementary. What does it say?
It says there that God is Spirit.
And the communication with Him should be at at the level of Spirit and the Truth.
Is it there? -- it is. And there is a lot like this. Is it not in the Qur’an or in the Vedas, or elsewhere?...
- It's in all the religions...
- It's in all the religions. But what does it mean to communicate spiritually?
And here there arises a problem. Here an interference occurs.
Person, thinking out of habit in stereotypes, the way he's been taught,
he begins, with his brain, his thoughts,
with surface material thinking, he starts to address the spiritual world.
Will he be heard?
It's going to be the same problem as with you while communicating with Chinese person.
- With the Chinese person, yes...
The little one. When you are mute and he is deaf.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- Also, the question arises then: how do people learn to separate themselves,
where is the body and where is spirit.
Since many people perceive, even though knowledge is there,
that man is not just a body, they understand this, but again, there were questions
how to comprehend this, to separate oneself,
that there is a body and something hurts, or something wrong with the body
that it's the body and has nothing to do with spirit.
- Naturally. Here, you just have to observe yourself a little. You must learn.
That's why it is always said: you must learn. Why work on yourself?
Work on yourself is not just in performing some kind of rituals but the real true work on yourself.
And what does it mean "true work on yourself"? In the first place, one must learn the system –
how the system of the material world works. Well, for imagery, we'll call it a system.
We can call it the "world of demons", we can call it the ”world of shadows",
we can call it anything, the ”devil's world", of ”hell", anything -- all of it will fit for our material world.
How does it work? What are "our thoughts"? And are they "our" thoughts?
What is our body? With what does a person identify himself?
- With the body...
- Well, for us as for medics, this is easier. Somebody comes and says: "I am ill, such and such hurts".
- It hurts...
- A simple example. If we approach this the right way: "something hurts" is one thing,
but when it's "I am sick and I am ill" – that's a completely different thing.
With what does a person associate himself? With a body. He has already attached himself to the body.
This has already strengthened at the level of his consciousness.
And he already approaches himself as matter, some material object.
But if we look into depth, get to the root… Let's imagine this situation: you're driving a car,
you get a flat tire – who knows, maybe it got punctured.
That's the same as "my liver started to hurt", yes?
- Same thing, yes...
- Or "my tire burst". You get out of the car – the car is still there. In the same way you will leave the body.
When this understanding comes to person, that "my body got a sick liver" or "my car got a flat tire"
is actually the same thing, and when a person starts to perceive and understand this,
then he won't have problems with spiritual communication. Understand?
But now, everyone is waiting for a guide to come and take them wherever they need to go,
and again we are faced with what? There are plenty of "Susanins" but no guide in sight.
- Only, you shouldn't follow them...
- Yep...
- You may come to the wrong place...
- Why did Christ say... the most despised sin by Jesus Christ is cowardice.
It is not the cowardice in human understanding, that we are afraid take a step outside,
or we are afraid that thieves will come in. It's the cowardice of changing your inner world.
Man lives according to a stereotype, and he’s used to what is happening with him every day.
And as long as he tolerates all this, it suits him, and he is afraid to make a step towards himself,
that is, to come into the inner world. He is afraid of this unknown.
And for him it is unknown, because nobody showed it to him,
nobody even suggested how to communicate with it.
Things is that man faces this world every day,
but he doesn't have an understanding of this world – he simply doesn’t see it.
But he is afraid to see it because he doesn't know what to do with this world.
And this (as Igor Mikhailovich had said), this spiritual component of man,
when people start looking for some kind of "Susanins”. But why?
Because they want to shift their responsibility of their Knowledge,
of their inner state, of learning this state. So, we have people who, even though they are shouting:
"We want to know God, we want to be in contact with Him" – they are afraid to do it,
they are afraid to reach out towards God.
- There is the desire to shift all the responsibility to someone else and not to deal with it. Why?
Because, in reality, all the responsibility for ourselves has been eradicated, and that’s true.
So it turns out that a person is always trying to shift the responsibility for himself –
even for his future, even for his "spiritual salvation" to someone else.
This doesn't mean laziness to fight for himself. No!
It's simply that a person is scared to do this for himself. One must work on oneself.
And then everything will be fine.
- But, again, this fear comes from matter?
- Of course. It is consciousness...
- It's the material fear to refuse stereotypes.
Thing is that our consciousness – as a material component, and
we already touched on this in the previous programme
- it will leave together with the body.
Man is not the consciousness, that's the trouble.
Man is the one who is observing the work of his consciousness,
the one who gives the power of his attention to his consciousness.
I think we discussed it as well, and the one who reaps the fruits of his own actions,
and the one who himself answers for his chosen actions.
He can become a stone or he can become a source of waters.
But, again, it’s up to the person to decide.
As of today, let's put it this way, unfortunately, everyone chooses the stone for some reason.
Nobody wants to become a source of waters. And people are even afraid of this concept
how it's possible to encounter the spiritual world, and then to go ahead and talk openly about it.
Because, then you will be subject to condemnation, but here a problem arises,
and the problem lies in the fact that the people who haven’t taken this path
and haven’t comprehended the spiritual world,
they are afraid of and are worried about it even before they have known anything.
Understand? "I am afraid to become a spiritual person because then people will discuss me.
I am afraid of getting on the spiritual path because the neighbour will look awry at me." This is amusing.
- You’ve touched upon a very interesting topic of comparing a person with the body,
and a car with a flat tire. This, identifying yourself with the material body.
- Yes, but even here, the most interesting thing is that if a person identifies himself as matter,
then using the car comparison, what will happen to his car in the future?
It will go to the junk yard. If a person identifies himself with an automobile,
then his consciousness, just like the on-board computer of this automobile,
will also go to the junk yard, and he will go to the junk yard.
What came from dust will return to dust.
And in order to, let's say, go to the spiritual world, one must become Spirit. And live by the Spirit.
Here arises another problem. It's not really the subject of this program today,
but it’s a well-documented experience of, for instance, Buddha.
When he, for the first time, in mountain river rapids,
experienced many practices and he became weak. Well, yoga and such
exhausted him, and he, already weakened, was holding onto a rootlet of a tree,
helpless in the river which he could not even cross, and
he suddenly realised what it is to "live by feelings".
When the body weakens, the Spirit gets stronger.
And these practices were used, they are bad practices, not good ones,
they often mislead, but in this case it worked.
And he got out, understood that he is Spirit, and a lot of his problems went away;
somehow got out of the river, he got enough sleep for the first time,
and then for 7 days he was completely silent. He did not know what to tell people,
and whether it was necessary to tell them anything. That's another problem.
Those who attained something and understood – they became silent.
They became silent not because they have nothing to say, but because there is nobody to say it to.
It's the same as communicating (well, I mean, verbally)
with deaf people from the room next door. They won't hear you.
Judge you – they will. But judge what? Just the outward appearance. Right?
People see what they see. And here, too, is a problem. Why?
Because people are waiting for a Messiah, a guide and so on.
But they are waiting for that leader, whom they will see with their own eyes.
With the earthly ones. But how will he be different, tell me?
Should have three arms or two noses or what? I don't know...
But for them, it has to be impressive. And so, people who consider themselves, let's say,
"godly people", or how to say, "faithful to God", who observe all that is written
in, for example, literature they are given to read. They comply with all of it...
but elementary, they don't even see the one who is walking next to them.
They are waiting for him, looking for him – and he passes by quietly.
And he will leave just the way he came. Why?
- Because they're trying to see with their outer, the material, and not with the inner.
- Of course. Because they're trying to see God by lifting up a stone.
To see with the earthly eyes. But to see with the spiritual ones – there’s no even need to lift up the stone.
You understand he is there.
Right?
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- How do people perceive this world? Whatever it gives them? They're trying to perceive it
“Do I like it? Is it convenient for me? Does it suit me? Is it comfortable for me?”
And so they go from this perspective. What they're ready for is where they're going.
People forget the elementary, that God's world is in each of us.
And for some reason, we complicate this world in order to find it from the outside.
Like it’s necessary to do something, run somewhere, bow down over and over again, stand on knees
and smash your forehead against the floor in order to know God.
Though, all you must do is to ask yourself a question.
“There’s no need to look for “Bab” when you are “Bab” yourself".
I translate. “Bab" was a name earlier, it meant "gate".
"Why look for external gate when you have it inside you?"
Right?
- Yes. Again we are faced with man's perception,
how man perceives the world narrowly within limits of matter,
and looking for some kind of support in the outer, even though that inner spiritual support is
the only way that can open for a person a way to real freedom.
- That's when a person is really seeking. But the problem is that
religion, as such, it doesn't teach people today, even though everything is there.
And everything has been written.
But, those who govern, they forget why they're here.
And more often, still, they're striving to use their followers as electorate.
To use them for some kinds of political decisions and so on.
Well, what they themselves can do is what they share with the people.
What they know themselves is what they tell. That's the problem.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- We’ve raised the subject of the material essence of man, of his physical component.
And we are trying to prompt a contact with the spiritual world.
But in talking to people, I had asked a question which people can't even understand:
"Where does aggression in people come from?
Why does laziness overpower people?
Why do people start living in their past?"
- Or future.
- People actually live in the past and in dreams about the future.
Nobody lives in the present.
This is the problem.
Why? Because in this world (I think we’ve already discussed this)
there is only the past and the future. There is no present in matter. It is too fleeting.
And in the spiritual world, there is no past and no future,
that is why it's eternal, because it is always the present there.
And when a person becomes (at least a little bit) spiritually free,
when he starts to feel this, he begins to really understand it.
The fear of death disappears in him.
You may feel sorry for the body if you still haven't done something,
didn't accomplish something, some kinds of plans.
But it doesn't matter (let's return to the subject of the automobile),
you need to go somewhere and do something – something good, useful for people.
The car broke down, well... That’s a problem. It's solvable, of course.
Well, it's a bit more difficult with the body, although it’s also solvable.
But, let's put it this way, it's more pleasant to walk. That's why you don't really want to,
once you get out of it, to get back into this automobile,
especially since perception, when you're sitting in the car,
it's like you understand other drivers, you understand all the complexity of car traffic,
you understand that something has to be done with it. But when you become a pedestrian,
well, drivers are drivers, let them drive more carefully, who is preventing them?
They want freedom? Well, get out of the car and start walking.
Somehow, it's hard to understand what prevents you from getting out of this automobile.
That's why you don't always want to get back into the car, go and do what has to be done.
Well, of course, if you have to, you have to. You get in and drive, what can you do?
Well, I meant... anyway...
- To those whom you offer to leave the car, they immediately find a lot of excuses.
- A whole lot... Too lazy. Laziness comes before all else.
Fear, laziness, incomprehension, but at the same time there is a big wish, understand?
They want to drive a car, and when it breaks down, I just get out whenever I want and that's it.
And here there needs to be some kind of sign, a good road...
- An excuse...
- Of course, of course.
So that road police were good.
- To let you get out of the car for free.
- Yes, you drove any way you wanted and they didn't even penalise you.
Didn't make you a mechanic for the rest of your existence to work on repairing automobiles...
Or an on-board computer...
- In order to get out of an automobile, you must understand why you need this.
But people don't want this, still that same laziness.
- To start with, you must understand: are you an automobile or are you a driver?
- Who serves whom.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- Yes, many people are concerned with this question.
How to understand your goal and comprehend how to reach it.
This is the main question, it was practically...
- There are no goals. What does it mean "your goal"?
All the people... "since I am here, that means I am needed for something."
- Yeah, "I have some kind of mission"...
- A lot of people, when they calm down, let's say, one fine evening, they sit down, relax,
when the material doesn't worry them much, when their stomach is full and their body feels fine,
they start thinking: “Am I just a person? Was Darwin really right,
Did I really evolve from a monkey? I will just die and that's it, or am I something more, as some say,
may be I am a spiritualised being, and since I'm here, it’s needed,
and what is the purpose of my existence, what am I supposed to do,
and for what? how do I find myself?" So, these various questions arise.
The problem is that everyone has the same destination. All the people come here just to gain Life.
It's a paradox. They say "we are born here, we live here..." Yes, we are born and exist,
and we exist to gain life.
But whether we start to Live or not – it all depends on us.
And the problem of modern religions is that they postpone everything for later.
They postpone it till some kind of judgement for all,
they postpone by saying "death is inevitable, and everything will be decided after death” and so on.
If we go back a little (back to pre-Egyptian times, not that long ago on the scale of humanity)
there was a clear understanding that if life doesn't start here, you will not get it there.
What you have earned is what you get.
In Egypt, these echoes still existed, there was this understanding,
but then, due to the fact that religion started to be actively used as a tool for politicians,
let's say, for those in power, that was removed.
Because you can't force a person (as Father Sergiy said),
who is spiritually free, to go against his Conscience.
But somehow they needed to use people, right?
Let's put it this way, a person who works at a plant where they make a low-quality product,
which causes a lot of diseases in other people.
You have to justify it somehow, right?
But a person who has conscience, he won't make this product.
He'll say: "Why should I bake bread, excuse me,
that's full of fungi, and from which there's going to be a lot of sickness", right?
Well, he needs to be convinced "you're baking this bread because God wants it so",
so that a person would ponder when he has a bowel disorder,
when he will have time to sit quietly and ponder
about the world, about God, about the frailty of his existence.
“You're doing a deed that is pleasing to God."
Well, the man will consider this and say, “Yes, this is true".
And with a clear conscience, he'll continue to bake this low-quality bread.
Is it not so?...
Manipulation.
But when a person is spiritually free, you can't force him.
Because he will know that one shouldn’t do bad things,
there is nothing good in it.
That all the people are one in their essence, and you shouldn't insult a neighbour
just because he is under the control of the system, consciousness, or demons, or whomever,
because he is angry and spits at your back.
Well, that's his problems, he is already answering for this, he is already in his suffering, in his anger,
in his excessive self-criticism, he is dooming himself to great suffering.
One can only feel sorry for him, and have pity on him. Is it not so?
- It is.
- What one prepares for is what one gets.
- Certainly. A good example.
Sorry, I will sidetrack from Christianity, it's just we were recalling – I may forget.
One guy, who hated Buddhism, came to Buddha and spit in his face.
His student (Buddha's) got indignant, but Buddha just wiped it off and
says: “Do you have anything else to say to me or is that all?"
The guy was taken aback, he expected a different reaction from Buddha.
And here there’s no reaction. He says "that's it".
The student says: “Wait, he insulted you, may I punish him?"
Buddha: "Why? Look at his red eyes, look at his problems.
He has punished himself. He didn't sleep all night, he was getting ready for this.
What's it to me? I just wiped my face – whether he was here or wasn't, for me he doesn't exist,
But he has already punished himself.” Understand?
Simple examples from life when people are just eating themselves alive.
Because evil acts destructively. Life cannot be in evil.
Life cannot bring some discontent, anything bad.
This is Life. Life should give joy, it should give pleasure. This is Life.
Why, earlier they wrote "life" (pronounced "zhizn"), on the Slavic territories,
life was called “zhivot” (stomach) and was always written capitalised. Why?
- Stomach... which means...
- Life means Stomach. Don't feel sorry for your stomach, so don't feel sorry for your Life...
- And why did they always capitalise it?
Though, later they already started to use (but later)...
But why capitalised? Why did they give such a respect to the concept of Life?
- It's a relationship with God.
- Of course.
- This life was a relationship with God.
It was not accumulation of material goods, it was not some technocratic ambition.
It was "Life with God", understanding of God. That's why they wrote life with a capital letter.
- The life that began or conceived life was understood as "life eternal". Understand?
- And not existence.
- But they were not getting ready for death, they were getting ready for Life.
- For Life. But now, anywhere we look, we are getting ready for death.
Unfortunately, even in religions, we're preparing for death.
They are getting us ready for post-death destiny.
Guys, well… after-death destiny... well, for the body, it's clear what destiny lies ahead,
If it's not burnt up, worms will eat it, right? That's what we're getting ready for,
that we will either be burned or worms will eat us.
Us... if we associate ourselves with the body.
Of course. And life is fleeting, I mean, the human "existence'.
In that understanding, what they call "life" it's just a moment. And why darken it?
And here also note: how the system works, how it... Why one must study it and understand.
Why do people turn... why are they always trying to do something nasty to each other?
Even when they want to do something good, and they try to do good (more often, it's all for show,
so that someone sees that "I'm doing something good",
but inside it's still that same hatred. And what's the point then of that external good deed?
There isn't any, because you're not doing it from the heart.
You're not doing it because of an inner call.
But you just want others to think of you in this way, that you are good, saintly and so on.
But, let say, it’s better to be like everyone – on the outside, but be free on the inside.
Well, that way, it's more useful, better. It’s more helpful.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- Also, people often reduce the concept of "spiritual development"
and counting oneself as one of "spiritual people"
to things like "doing good deeds, living according to conscience", and that's where it ends.
That is, it doesn't go beyond that, and
there is such an understanding that this is "spiritual life".
- To number yourself among the "spiritual people" doesn't mean to be one of them.
Again, "I want" factor appears. It’s again the factors of vanity pride appear:
"I am like this, look at me, I help old ladies cross the street", even when they don't need it.
- The wrong way...
- Yes, the wrong way. "I am doing something".
The beings who walk on this planet, for some reason, start to look for very difficult ways.
And all of these difficult ways consist of actualising oneself, expressing oneself,
reminding somebody about oneself.
Take even, the beau monde: “If they're talking about you, no matter good or bad,
that means you're remembered.” Take the political or show business beau monde.
Whatever you're doing, as long as somebody somewhere is talking about you.
- This is really true...
- Rapture with vanity.
- Of course, it is pride. Pride pushes the person to this.
And when a person is unable to actualise himself in some kind of way, make someone envy him,
he starts to attract attention with his illnesses, depressions, whining, preaching and so forth.
Is this not so?
- It is.
- With his imposing his ideas on someone…
- Matter... Any matter always strives to dominate other matter and manipulate it.
That's the point of matter itself.
And if a person lives by his mind, his logic – he becomes matter.
He thinks he is the smartest one, that he understands everything and so forth,
he tries to win over the strong by cunning, the weak - by power. Suppress and dominate…
This is a temporary phenomenon, it's transient, it ends fast. And too costly.
- It’s impossible to do anything with a free person. Absolutely nothing. He can play along...
- Only with the body...
- With body, yes, you can. But a free Personality --
- What's the point? Wasted effort...
- This, too, shall pass.
- This, too, shall pass...
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- Another interesting question is about the power of a person's attention.
Many people understand that it plays a big role in the spiritual formation of man.
But still, what is, in fact, the power of man's attention?
- What is the power of attention?
- Yes.
- Or what is attention?
- Attention and its role in life, the spiritual life of man.
- The main one.
Because what is, in fact, work on yourself? It is where you invest your attention.
And when you invest attention, you give power to one or another programme,
or thought forms, thoughts (we can call it differently), but the jist is the same.
A simple example: a thought comes to you, for example: “To pray".
To somehow join, at least a little, the spiritual world – to do a meditation, repeat a mantra,
doesn't matter – to perform some action with the goal of spiritual enlightenment.
You apply the power of your attention to this action and you carry it out.
And here, again, we encounter division,
Are you doing it from the spiritual perspective (for Spirit) or with a material goal?
And where you put the power of your attention is what you get.
For example, you want to make contact with the spiritual world,
but you have a desire, and you actualise those programmes
and those thoughts in order to have some kind of a gift,
in order to (this is, as psychologists say, your subconscious wish in which you put attention).
You want to seem and not to be.
- Health, like that...
- Into health or matter and so on.
You are performing your prayer or mantra for healing your body.
Will you become a spiritual person?
- No.
- Of course not. It's like in an automobile, you're a driver, and you're investing resources
into painting the automobile and so on. How can this auto enter that world,
whatever colour you painted it, no matter how shiny it is,
it is – material, it will still someday fall apart.
The same with your body. If you put in the power of your attention into the spiritual world,
but with a goal of actualising your spirituality in this world, then it has nothing to do with spirituality.
You mustn’t do that, these are immiscible substances – the spiritual world and the material world.
- Also, people often ask the question: how to always keep your attention in the spiritual,
focus it on the Soul, but at the same time, do some work.
I think the concept of "attention" gets mixed up, the root of what "attention" is.
- Well, let's look at attention allegorically like at work wages.
Let's say, you’ve received your work pay.
You have a certain amount of money. You can spend these resources on clothes,
you can spend them on cosmetics, you can spend them on, I don't know... water.
Anything, right?
This is that power of resources, with which you can get something. Understand?
The same with the power of attention.
If you spend 90% of the power of your attention on the spiritual component
and 10% to service your body,
then everything is good.
But we have everything – not even the other way around,
but we spend 100% on matter, on the external.
And what does it mean the "power of attention"? Again, we’ve already talked about it
in the last programme also and here - a thought.
A thought comes to you, the thought is not yours.
And so, if we touch this concept, in the ancient times, as it turns out, they knew this.
And here's a small nuance, too.
Many came, prophets and the like,
they told about it, but somehow this understanding was lost.
Only the visible part was left – that people gathered, that they did some kind of prayers,
they performed some kind of rituals for something, some kind of action took place.
The meaning of these rituals and those actions has been lost, and only the external has remained.
If we compare this, it’s like an observer from the outside, and moreover an observer of three-dimensionality.
He observed what people did who aspired for the spiritual world,
he described it, and then people started doing it.
They forgot the inner component, what was happening.
Here, if we touch this, even the first Christians (no need to go far),
they had such a concept as "catharsis", well, that's for cathars, mostly.
That's why they were called "cathars”. Cathars are the followers of the gnostics,
and gnostics were the first Christians, they continued to follow the teachings of Christ.
They were mercilessly destroyed while the religion was being built as an instrument of power.
Why? What was the most important part they had and the most interesting one?
They were studying the system. That is, they had "catharsis" - the process of cleansing,
The process of cleansing is the process of learning.
It was communal for them.
The first thing they did was they learned how the system works - the material one,
they learned where thoughts come from,
what prompts them towards wrong, unrighteous deeds and like that.
And they shared this, they shared their experience and learned the spiritual world.
They shared the experience of how to get closer to the spiritual world.
They shared the experience of how the system works, how it imposes stereotypes,
because stereotypes are all the same.
Can we find it now, in any form, in the spiritual literature?
Just the meagre hints from an outside observer, but the essence itself has been lost.
This essence is where the meaning was, this was the silver thread, which led a person
from a common mortal creature to the spiritual world, to the immortal world,
making the person an Angel. Understand?
Today, unfortunately, this understanding has been lost, even though there are many mentions.
And at the same time, the religious (whatever religion we take – a lot is good),
but changes happened. And these changes, insignificant distortions -
they brought not the inner work on yourself to the forefront,
not the study of the material world and the spiritual world. How can you differentiate black from white
if you don't know what "black" is and what "white" is, right?
How can you argue with someone who's blind from birth about the colour of milk?
It doesn't matter to him. For him, the main thing is the taste of milk.
But for a person who has sight, the colour is important, too.
And these components - they are important.
Important in the sense that a person won't be able to develop spiritually
without observing the evil and the good in himself.
And when he focuses his attention on something, he activates either evil or good,
either dead or alive.
That's the point. And that is the path, that is the spiritual path, and spiritual work on yourself.
Not that "I renounce the world, my Imam... my spiritual mentor said:
Do like this.” And I do exactly like this and I don't understand why.
And my spiritual mentor tells me you don't need to understand, you'll understand later, just do it.
You have to trust me, you have to..."
You have to know! You have to learn in the first place and not just believe people.
You must trust Spirit. But a person who lives and doesn't know for himself -
if he doesn't know how to do it himself, if he himself is just a regular three-dimensional shell,
even the one that's stuffed with knowledge
(not the knowledge about the eternal, but elementary book knowledge),
if he himself imitates those who imitated others, you will then become an imitator,
in the best case scenario, if you’re lucky and you’re not lazy.
But you won't get rid of those internal doubts.
You won't get rid of not understanding the spiritual world,
and without comprehending something, you won't be able to enter it.
And if you don't enter it, you will remain where?
- Together with the car.
- Correct. Like a computer, I mean, the on-board one - at the junk yard.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- Here again, the question is that many people are trying to find
with their mind the answer of where they are, whether they're going the right way.
In the spiritual direction or not...
- When a person since birth wasn't taught to perceive through feelings,
what do we do with our children, yes? We teach them like everybody else.
Because we ourselves don't know how and what.
In order to teach the spiritual, perception through feelings, one must be that way oneself.
And since this has been lost, we use the stereotypes:
don't touch the wall outlet – you will get shocked,
don't take anything sharp - you will cut yourself,
well, and basic things like that.
All of this goes into our consciousness, what is necessary for our survival,
and it all gets carried over to usual communications, to everyday life.
And so it's "like everybody else". Everybody acts this way - and you should act the same.
There are certain boundaries, certain laws written by people. Why is that?
Because people have developed this over the years, over centuries – this is good and this is bad.
And so, society somehow exists.
And this existence of society leads to the fact that a person simply loses the opportunity, the chance
to use that for which he has come here; and so he goes into the state of, let's say,
"from life into non-life, into existence" (or to put it correctly, into a subpersonality, in modern language);
that is, he is neither alive nor dead, he is not anything, he is in hell.
He continues his existence without comprehending for what and how.
There, he will understand, he'll understand everything – the boundaries to learning are here.
Why? Why are there boundaries to learning here?
Because that which is serving us, the so called "our consciousness", is able to and it should develop.
Develop intellectually, in the three-dimensional understanding, in the material world.
But it cannot go beyond this stereotype; we cannot even imagine,
like, in Primordial Physics: “What is this world".
It's just an illusion, it's shadows of the distorting mirrors of the septon.
That there is a certain force that begets all. All of it gets distorted, and in the end,
it becomes a wave, this wave becomes matter, and it turns out that we are all an illusion.
But you and I, we feel each other… Ourselves, our hands,
table, and everything else… This is important for us.
But who is feeling, how is it feeling, why is it feeling? And what is behind this?
Yes, our good... our brain is fairly developed, it's capable of much,
even more than necessary, but it's not capable of the most important thing.
It cannot perceive that which lies beyond its limits.
It cannot comprehend what it consists of and what drives it, even.
That is the problem of the brain.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- Man, as a spiritual creature, possessing inner power, which emanates, let’s put it this way, from the spiritual world,
which a Personality is a part of, because the moment when the Personality comes into a person,
let's put it this way, it enters an already formed vessel,
and it's no secret that it happens on the eighth day from birth.
Why? Everywhere through ages, the eighth day is the most significant.
And until the eighth day, a man is just
an automobile without a programme and without a driver, let’s put it this way.
On the eighth day, a programme is consciously turned on in him
because the driver gets in. He activates it all.
And this driver is precisely the derivative of
that which is hidden inside and comes from that world.
Well, a little complicated, but those who want to, can figure it out.
That's why the driver must realise that he is a "driver".
He is not part of the on-board computer, and he is not a wheel.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- So from this I gather that a person who is
tuned to perceiving the world exclusively with the brain,
even attempts to understand the spiritual direction with the brain
lead him nowhere, because for him it's a closed subject.
- Surely. There will always be distortions.
The brain is incapable of realising, it's incapable of perceiving the spiritual world.
Also, the brain is always predisposed to confrontation.
We started our conversation by saying that people must feel each other.
And this concept of "perception through feelings"
is not limited by time or space, nothing like that.
And in reality, as we were saying,
that in this room there is a small number of us,
in this enclosed space, and we're at the starting point A.
But people will watch this programme many times,
and every time they will be present here with us.
And at the level of perception with feelings, this all is felt.
That's the point. Especially those are felt
who are tuned spiritually, spiritually free.
Let's put it this way, it's impossible to understand this with the brain.
- Still, how can a person develop this inner feeling,
in the sense of "to live by it", "to be it constantly",
and to lead through life... to live by this feeling?
- It's very easy. It's so easy that the brain cannot perceive it. That's the problem.
- And again, the looping...
- No, not the looping. But by using that same tool,
by using the brain as a tool, one can even realise this.
That's what the gnostics practiced, and later Cathars and so on.
They studied the system, they approached it really as a practice.
It is really work on yourself.
What did it consist of?
Tracking of incoming thoughts, behaviour, emotions.
Since what is an emotion?
Emotion is a mirror reflection on a crooked mirror
of that feeling that should be.
So, the power of feelings gets distorted
and becomes an emotion, which exists temporarily.
No shadow can exist forever.
That's the problem.
Because it is not the source.
Many perceive the sun as the source of light.
Any more or less spiritually free person will tell you that the sun is just a shadow
because it is temporary.
It is a shadow of that greater, which it manifests.
Yes, it shines, it gives warmth (supposedly), it engenders, or helps, more precisely,
for life to emerge and continue on those planets
where, in these conditions, there existence is possible,
from elementary single-cell organisms to complex systems, such as us.
But all of it is just a part of one large complex system:
the single-cells, our brain, and the sun.
It's just that each fulfils its own function
in this complex world. But in reality,
it's a lot simpler than it seems.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- The point is to study all this.
To study those thoughts, where they come from and why.
Again, consciousness, we take consciousness.
Since the consciousness is everywhere.
Let's look at an anthill, how well everything is coordinated.
One ant – where's the brain there?
- He is nothing...
- Well, there are clever ants who fulfil a function.
But what moves this ant?
The collective mind. So there is a mind,
and there is some kind of consciousness, which controls the whole population.
And there is such a consciousness that is common to all:
on the global scale, and here on Earth, which allocates to people,
and for each person, it's like a little
sequestration from the whole, it is individual.
But this is consciousness.
And in reality, this is a tool that we should be using.
It's like an on-board computer of our automobile,
which we are using.
It shouldn't dictate to us, but sometimes that's what happens.
At the present time, in our lives right now
the on-board computer dictates to us how to live, how to drive, where to drive to,
And it imposes on us this stereotype that we are a part of the automobile.
And we will leave with the automobile.
But can an on-board computer, no matter how smart and super-modern it is,
evaluate your spiritual needs?
Of course, not.
It will be limited by its capabilities.
The same way our consciousness is limited and, even more so, our brain.
Even though the brain and consciousness are different things.
We already mentioned this a little
and, thank God, this comprehension is there already.
See, there's already a breakthrough.
Even with the help of our mind, we can come to an understanding
that there's a different world, and not just this one.
And it turns out there are thoughts which do not belong to you in any way,
and this is very easy, do you agree?
- Yes.
– You simply pay a little attention to this.
Simply sit there and observe how thoughts come.
How you apply the power of your attention,
and the thought hooks you.
It's enough to just: sit down, relax, and you're sitting at peace.
A simple example.
And you observe: seems like you have no thoughts
but you can't get rid of them whatsoever.
There are a ton of them. And if you observe closely,
they are very diverse. And they come in simultaneously.
It's impossible to calm them down,
you're constantly thinking about something.
But is it you who is thinking?
Or is it simply like radio waves that are constantly
coming in and going through a receiver,
and you just keep switching.
You switch, tune in to one wave - there's music, another one - news.
This is that application of the power of attention
and the activation of one or another programme, nothing more.
But since these programs come in, we give them power of our attention,
then what happens next?
Then, what happens is that it enters our chemistry,
our brain, our neurones,
and starts to fulfil a certain function.
We’ve recalled an offence, how somebody hurt us,
and this program, like a broken record, keeps turning,
causing in us what? An emotion.
At that time, can we think about the spiritual?
- No.
- No. Why? Because we're thinking about some kind of offence,
which happened God knows when.
Or we're hoping for the future, that everything will be fine,
well, I don't know, somebody will bring something, like a bun,
or I will pass exams, or I don't know what,
I will get a raise, or health will finally return, doctors will cure me.
It's funny, right?
It's funny to you as a doctor but the patient, you know how badly he wants to get well.
So, that's where he is putting the power of his attention, in the hope of getting well.
But, it doesn't matter where to apply it:
if it’s the earthly, the transient...
- The earthly you get...
- Of course. And how much time you think about it,
I don’t even mention such things as megalomania, sex and all the rest,
which takes up most of a person's time, right?
- Yes.
For these thoughts. So it turns out that a person lives by what’s empty, transient,
and there is no time to think about the eternal.
To activate the programs about the eternal, he says "I'd be happy to, here, I am thinking".
But to think about what? How do you think about the spiritual?
Should I imagine a preacher or what?
Many are missing the basic comprehension.
The basic misunderstanding that there is a world of feelings.
That, as it turns out, you can hear, feel, communicate with each other.
You don't need anything.
Here we are talking, here we are thinking, and even then, is it we who are thinking?
Since most of the words we express,
we don't even know and don't pick.
It's like somebody is talking for us, and we can only observe from the outside what is happening.
And if we think about this process, people begin to be afraid of it.
Why? Because it turns out that everyone needs to see a psychiatrist then, yes?
- Yes.
- Because the psychiatrist said this is not normal.
- Everyone has the same diagnosis.
- The same diagnosis, yes. And this scares people.
Why, because it turns out I'm not in control
it turns out I am being manipulated.
And here fears really start. And the person drops it all and goes:
“Forget it, better I go and light a candle, and whatever will be – will be."
Well, that's what he’s thinking now.
But in a moment, even less, he appears on a completely other side.
And there to him comes an understanding that, as it turns out, he should've worked on himself.
No candle will save you, and no preacher will give you absolution.
And here arise, once again, a bunch of problems. Right?
If now they can be solved, but later it becomes impossible.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- If we take the issue of reincarnation,
then, in fact, this concept existed in all the religions and Christianity.
But reincarnation not of man but of the Soul.
What is a Soul?
Many say "my Soul" and like that,
“the Soul is suffering" (we’ve already raised this question).
The Soul cannot suffer, and the Soul is relatively yours.
Who is whose? You belong to the Soul or the Soul belongs to you?
It's kind of like that here.
She will become yours when you become one with her.
And even then, it will no longer be a Soul, it will be something new.
Excuse me, this is just for understanding, this part can be cut out.
This is the same as a *** cell starts saying "my egg cell”, while he is 20 cm away from it.
While there are million competitors.
Well, is it yours? That’s the question.
Or are you hers? But when the merging happens and a zygote is formed,
then, yes, we can talk about the birth of something new.
The same thing here: the Personality and the Soul are such diverse concepts,
there's like a distance between them.
And there is like a possibility because there is a certain connection,
inner aspiration (at least, there should be
an aspiration of the Personality for the Soul)
but it is suppressed by what?
By investing the power of attention into the three-dimensionality.
And when consciousness attacks the Personality,
the Personality puts all the power of attention
which should be put into the main goal for which it came here.
Why did it come here? Exactly for this reason it's here.
But it puts all the power of its attention into the material, temporary world.
And here (this is a wrong comparison, you can delete all of it)
but I would compare it to, again, the movement of a *** cell towards an egg cell,
since it has the power, it has temporary existence.
And now let's give him a bit of consciousness, the same as we have.
What's he going to think about?
About the fact he lives and that he is moving - everything is great.
Around it, there are many like him.
And he moves wherever he wants, he is free.
And this is his life.
Nothing is different in our circumstances.
Well, turns out – we should've been going
where you needed to go and do what you were supposed to do
in order to get, truly, Life.
But, unlike that *** cell (which by the way, our *** cell has reached its goal
since we're sitting here talking),
and we already have received a chance.
Now we have to take a second step,
the first step has been taken.
And now we have to actualise a little more.
See how it's all simple and easy, in reality.
It turns out you must learn that world, study who is thinking in you,
who is forcing you to make one or another decision,
who is causing emotions in you, who is controlling you.
And when you understand that the world is dual-natured
and it's two-fold, and that's the reality,
then you begin to acquire freedom of your Personality.
You start to feel that, as it turns out, there something else.
And by catching on to this, at least a little bit,
when you unwind this roll, you don't let go of this feeling,
you start to… and analyse this world,
watching, observing what tries to distract you.
And why, when a person first touches the spiritual,
immediately the whole system activates,
which does everything possible to distract him. Why?
- To attract his attention and lead him away from the main goal.
- Of course. Yes.
Because man's attention is a part of (we can call it "food")
and the means of existence of the temporary system.
Because our whole universe, our whole system
It's only just... a temporarily existent micro-object
which looks more like a dream than reality.
That's the point.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- Igor Mikhailovich, often people who are walking the spiritual path, ask themselves this question:
in the context of “Am I walking or am I not?”
- When a person asks such a question “Am I walking or not?”,
he is not going anywhere. Here you and I are sitting and chatting.
Are we going anywhere or not?
- We're sitting.
- We're sitting. Are we moving or not?
- We're sitting.
- Well, simply...
- We're not moving... not moving.
- Look at the fallacy: because the bonds of consciousness
is what doesn’t give this understanding.
In actual fact, while you expressed your sentence that “we are sitting",
a certain amount of time passed. More than one second.
Do you know how many kilometres in space your body traveled?
- I don't know.
- Quite a lot. The rotation of the Earth on its axis, ecliptic around the sun,
movement in the galaxy, movement of the galaxy itself.
- So, to evaluate with a brain or consciousness, to comprehend where you really are...
- It's all impossible. But at the level of feelings, everything is perceived very simply and easily.
All that's invisible, it is visible, it is simple, it is real.
There’s nothing complicated about it.
And what's more, it gives a deep understanding and strips away all the masks.
While observing in three-dimensionality, we are observing what -
a molecular arrangement: some amino acids sitting here,
gurgling something to each other
and pretending to understand each other.
But at the level of perception with feelings, it's perceived without masks.
Since here we can wear masks.
We can appear to be, well... for example I can appear to be anybody.
Like, now I'm sitting here and chatting about religion
even though, actually, my job is to treat spines.
I should be talking about the sick spines and
tell people what to do so their back doesn't hurt.
Many on that side are saying “it would be better if you were doing that. That’d be more helpful".
Well... in my free time, free from my main job, I can talk about whatever I want.
I'm not saying anything bad... right?
- Of course.
- That's what I'm saying.
So, why not talk a little about spiritual matters... in presence of the Father here.
The Father talks about medicine sometimes, too.
That's how it goes. They get into our sphere, and we go into theirs. It’s more fun.
- Friendly...
- Yes, we’re friends, yes... Friendly...
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- But look here: there is a small nuance here.
That is, we are kind of locked in a conversation, the two of us and nobody else.
But if we look deeper, inside - a lot of people have joined us.
Why is this? By touching the basic, live things,
they give resonance, and here space widens,
time disappears, and perception disappears.
Because it doesn't matter who you're talking to.
In the spiritual world, you can communicate simultaneously
with everybody and communicate with yourself.
And there is no difference.
Depends on who is talking inside of you.
If it is your consciousness talking inside of you, you will be alone.
But at the same time, under the control of the whole system.
When you are in the spiritual world, in communication with the spiritual world,
you are communicating with boundlessness, and boundlessness is communicating with you.
And at that time, you can communicate with all those who, although still temporarily,
is in three-dimensionality, but who are capable of feeling.
Unfortunately, there are few of such people: blindness, excuses, consciousness.
Consciousness prevents people from seeing the truth. This is true.
When they're spiritually blind, they don't differentiate,
they're giving preference to the three-dimensionality out of habit.
It's important for them to see three-dimensionality,
it's important for them to hear in this three-dimensionality some proof for the brain,
proof of the boundless world.
But how is it possible to squeeze the boundless into something so little?
It is not realistic.
That means, to understand it, one must leave this system,
but people are afraid (as we've already said).
Well, there are people who feel but they're afraid.
The brain brings up doubts: “Am I feeling correctly right now,
do I understand correctly, is that what they're saying?"
Although they feel inner resonance, people feel
something born inside of them, there is a response.
That's what perception through feelings is - this response,
which is internal and pure, which illuminates, like the light from the inside.
But for many, it's the opposite... Those who are guided more by consciousness,
they feel being oppressed, they feel an emotion
(emotion is like a crooked reflection of a shadow,
let's put it this way), which causes anger, aggression.
There are those who want to spit, don't want it... they're not interested in this.
Why? Because consciousness is scared, really, of the right things,
the true things, which lead on a straight path to the spiritual world.
Why? Because it may lose control.
By losing control, it will become a subordinate.
And, as we know, in the material world, everything aspires for what? Domination.
Well, that's the point. Everything is actually simple.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- So then, when a person changes his perception of the world,
his life from the external, the usual, judgmental
(some kind of evaluation by the brain)
switches life to the inner, this perception through feelings,
and lives by this constantly, it opens for him a way to salvation of his Personality?
- Naturally. But he won't be able to live this way constantly.
At the first stages, the person encounters such, sort of, swings, and he...
he has opened himself spiritually, felt it...
Many people, in actual fact, after the first programme, they felt something,
they don't know how to express it, how to explain it, but they felt this response.
And after some time, consciousness covered it up for them.
And started to give its own, logical, completely different explanations.
But, that's exactly the problem. The problem is that people stopped listening to the inner,
perceive the inner, the feelings that they received,
and started listening to their brain.
And the brain drew completely different pictures for them. Why?
The brain perceives three-dimensionality, which is the same everywhere.
And there can be no ideal here.
This world, in reality, it is actually deformed of itself, and here nothing can be ideal:
there are spots on the sun, whatever you touch - everything is distorted and crooked.
Here there is nothing, and material cannot be ideal.
Because it is finite, it's temporary.
And, to start with, it’s pathetic, timid.
But often aggressive. And aggression is the spawn of weakness, the result of transience.
That's why it gets enraged, furious.
- It senses the end...
- And rejoices in the empty... sure, sure.
- Here is another interesting question: often people on the spiritual path,
while performing practices, prayers, meditations (everybody has their own way),
ask the question: how to walk this path correctly, what to do?
To constantly be in this state of the feeling of love, or still to figure out and understand the system?
- Here again we are coming to (you ask the question, rather)… the state of the feeling of love.
Even the concept of love, for people, is distorted.
Let's go outside and ask anyone “What is love?”. He will tell you.
- It will come down to the external.
- Of course. Love is, first of all, is endless, it's feelings, it's boundless.
Why is the spiritual world associated with love?
But with the boundless love, true love, not the physical one,
conditioned by hormones, ones' own interests, some kind of adaptive reactions and so on.
In reality, abiding in that state of feelings is boundless, right?
- Yes.
I mean, it is not simply "love". We associate love with something good,
as a synonym of something beautiful, good,
boundless and joyful, yes? So, we get the word "love".
It doesn't reflect that world, not even a smidgen of it.
It's hard to explain. Really, when you describe something about that world here,
we will involuntarily proceed from... again, we will pull out associations
that are close, they are identical, they are similar.
And while trying to explain the same thing in different ways, we will somehow repeat ourselves.
This is normal. It's hard to transmit an understanding through feelings to a person who cannot perceive it.
We have to transmit through what? Consciousness.
Who serves as our intermediary in the dialogue about the world of God?
Consciousness. Which serves whom?
- That same system which we ourselves created.
- Of course.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- Buddha encountered a big problem (again, I'm going back to him).
He didn't know how to tell people about this.
And so he told his students that – he has a good example.
When students said to him: “You tell a lot of good things, your knowledge is so vast.”
He told them, you can't even imagine. Do you see the forest? It's open. There's a sea of leaves in it.
And here (he clamped some leaves in his fist) he says, in my hand are just a few leaves.
This is what I am giving you. As many leaves are in the forest
that's how much knowledge I have. But I can only give you this that fits in my palms.
Well, almost like that. It’s an insignificant interpretation of his words,
but it gives an understanding that the knowledge a person gets in the spiritual world,
when he encounters this world… Not when he encounters, when he enters this world,
when he starts to feel it, it is boundless.
But you can only communicate only that which people can hear in this world.
This knowledge is minimal. Why? Because you have to tell it through adaptation,
it passes through the brain...
- Through associative examples.
- Of course. Through certain associative examples, something else.
In order to explain at least something to a person, at least somehow.
That's why all the prophets faced one big problem: to convey understanding and
and to somehow help people who feel that they're not just two-legged monkeys,
who temporarily exist here, but something more.
To help them feel this something more
and to help them realise that the spiritual world exists
and they have the right and can enter it.
Well, to give them at least an elementary direction and show how to do it.
This problem has always existed.
To communicate that knowledge into three-dimensionality is very difficult.
This is also of importance that people often confuse Knowledge.
For us, it is always "knowledge". In our world, knowledge is the multiplication table,
and so on – this is knowledge, yes?
But in the spiritual understanding "Knowledge" is an overall picture, the whole one.
It cannot be discretely somehow torn up or divided, it's whole, it's all-encompassing.
And so in this way, imagine a small test tube,
and we are trying to cram our Earth globe into it.
Well, we can only take a sample.
It’s sad but it’s true. Still, for a seeker, who strives for self-development,
self-knowledge in the spiritual way, well, even these "Earth tests"
will be enough to understand its essence.
I mean, even insignificant knowledge and a small hint are enough to comprehend and to grasp it.
At least, how to take the first steps, how to learn to feel,
how to learn to observe this three-dimensional world; where the thoughts come from.
Again, we are coming back to the simple things: to that which the Cathars, for example, had practiced.
By the way, it would be interesting to reveal, talk about this subject a bit.
Why? Because it shows how the Knowledge that came here,
on which all the religions of the world are based, how it eventually got distorted,
how the essence and the truth was removed from it, and how only the visible form remained.
Well, the visible form is all fine and well, but thing is that it still doesn't lead to salvation,
even though it's beautiful. But it is empty.
- It doesn't reveal the essence...
So, in the modern world, the comprehension...
- Just candy wrappers won’t satisfy a child – he needs a candy,
The same is with man. Right?
- Yes.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- Igor Mikhailovich, what you were just telling us, it can all be felt, it's all simple, understandable and is all there.
But then why today it has been lost in society. Since, really, it is all very simple.
- May I answer with an example? Give me a pen.
You have given me what you have.
Now give me a pen again.
- I don't have one.
- Understood? But what brought us to this, I think it’s better that Father Sergiy will tell us.
How we reached the point when someone asks you for a pen and it turns out you don't have one.
- Based on today's topic, again we return to history.
And, let's see... well, it's not a secret to anyone that teachers (prophets)
periodically show up in this world and bring Knowledge,
renew this Knowledge that people lose.
And the last Knowledge that carried… was through gnostics, the first students of...
- Not the last Knowledge. The last Knowledge given was to Mohammed.
Actually, Mohammed brought a renewal.
- Well yes, and let's touch what is nearer to us, the Knowledge brought by Jesus Christ.
His closest students, the first ones, were called gnostics.
That is, they were the people of Knowledge.
Specifically, the Knowledge brought by Christ.
And look, in the time period of 2000 years, how this Knowledge has been changed.
In fact, in this Knowledge, when we read about Christ's life,
we cannot see and cannot read what he had said.
We just see where he was, where he went, what he did,
we read about some of his teachings.
But the Knowledge itself, for some reason it's hidden.
And now we return to this... that before... the Knowledge of Christ
that he was communicating to his students... look here...the history of Judaism -
it talks about the fact that, at that time, people went and exposed.
“Go and expose your brother",
and what did Jesus Christ bring? The knowledge of the world".
Since the first gnostics, when they were leaving
(so no one could disturb them) into catacombs.
So "the first confession". It wasn't really a confession.
It was what we talked about, what Igor talked about,
it was knowing yourself, they described a situation that happened,
without judgement, without any (well, I don't know) pity for themselves
they were describing it so that they could see where the person falls into trap.
- I will interrupt for just a moment.
When a person is engaged in studying the world, studying the system itself,
then he exposes not himself, but the one who is dictating to him.
And that's the point. They didn't have judgement, as such, of anyone or anything else,
there couldn't be. Because there was the process of cognition and learning.
That's why when they got together, they had this process of "cleansing", as they named it later,
but it wasn't "cleansing", it was "studying" - studying how the system itself
works through stereotypes. That's the point.
It was not a confession, by any means. It was a process of studying,
of getting rid of the stereotypes. I am sorry for interrupting.
- And they... Why were they talking about it? Because every person faces this in their lives.
Everyone has his own situation, his own understanding, his own point of view,
but the stereotypes are identical, they don't change, they just change colour.
Take notes, there are only 7 of them: but in all the years so much music has been written, but there are only 7 notes.
It’s the same with stereotypes, there are a certain number of them,
but they have their own colour and their own intonation, and due to this, they were studying it.
But nobody ever told anybody “your sins have been absolved" because it was not a sin.
It was a way to self-knowing, to self-learning.
And this community, it announced... Why did it become undesirable?
It became undesirable to priests who understood this and started using it themselves.
They said: “We don't need intermediaries, if we're communicating with God,
we are confessing to God, then we know Him. We don't need someone to come and tell us:
“You have to believe in God this way.” How can you believe in God this way?"
This is what, again? Shifting responsibility.
So, I tell someone that you're doing so and so, and your way is prepared for you.
That's right. And what is the responsibility then if he doesn't become a Lord's Angel?
How can he then ask me the question: “Where did you bring me?”
- Well, unfortunately he won't be able to ask him the question later.
- That's what we're talking about...
- And that's what they used...
- And the gnostics, they wrote this knowledge down. Thank God, something has been preserved.
All of you have heard of the Dead Lake, the Nag Hammadi library that was found
and again, look at what's written there – scientists tell openly,
it can be found in sources, on the internet, they decipher it and openly say
“Guys, wait, such big substitutions exist!"
- Manuscripts don't burn...
- Yes. Manuscripts don't burn... And they even found manuscripts which are, let's put it this way,
older than the writing of the Holy Gospel Scriptures.
Why? Because the Scriptures are considered to be the original source, the Greek translation,
but the one in ancient Aramaic is, for some reason, lost. Well, it's not there.
But these manuscripts are written in ancient Aramaic. And there it's completely different,
In some manuscripts, we even see Christ as a regular person who lived,
talked to people, had a regular human life.
- A natural one...
- A natural life...
- He couldn't have lived a different life. Any higher being coming here, it lives an ordinary human life –
we touched on this in the last programme, and that's a peak of fairness.
When Jesus came to this world, he had to partake of this life in order to understand:
“Does anything prevent people from coming to freedom or not?”
How difficult is the situation and whether help is needed or not?
It turns out that nothing is preventing them. The same now as then. Other than their own laziness,
imposed stereotypes (which are very easy to get rid of), nothing stands in the way.
Freedom is the same as it always was. It’s only the desire to attain it
has been substituted for some temporary one.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- Still, initially priests played their part in assisting Emperor Constantine
to make religion a state institution. But look: “Divide and rule”.
And the people of Knowledge, they simply started to divide them.
Well, they were forced to, conditions were set for them to go out into the world.
They went out and they carried this Knowledge.
And the thing is that, really, even the priests of that time, like the last two
who carried this Knowledge and died in the 14th Century – the grains of that Knowledge
they were able to preserve. Because practically, there was no way to write them down down.
Searches, prosecution, the Knowledge was found, they tried to destroy these books,
it was all communicated from memory, from the mind, so you can understand that
that all sorts of distortions started.
- What comes from the mind will be covered by mind.
- But the Knowledge itself, already substitution started right after Christ left.
This Knowledge was put into use. People who were carrying this Knowledge,
they started to seclude themselves from others. One of their first mistakes,
even today you can observe: people who feel something inside themselves,
touch on something, start to understand they isolate themselves.
That is, they don't even want to communicate with this world.
And here they make the biggest mistake. Instead of uniting,
like the first gnostics – they united and they studied together.
Because for one, two or even three, it’s difficult to learn this world.
Because everyone has their own experience, their own understanding.
But when they united, they acquired this Knowledge and, kind of, like
it was a global understanding of what was going on.
And so by putting this into use... since priests have always existed: before Christ,
during Christ's time, after Christ...
- And now...
- And now they exist. This Knowledge was simply put into use.
And if you cannot understand or cannot deal with it, what should you do with it? Lead it.
And when they put this Knowledge into use, of course, this gave them an opportunity to hide it.
Hide it… And then (later) distortions started.
If we take history, we encounter this understanding that, actually,
the true Knowledge, for some reason, over a period of 200 years,
they start to become distorted, ruined, and erased. So...
- Well, in 200 years, that's if it's preserved in purity, it doesn't live longer than that for some reason.
But, as far as we know, the Knowledge after Jesus, when religion started to form
based on his teachings, since before that nobody called Christianity a religion.
There was no such concept. And the first Christians - they strived for freedom,
there was no division or anything, as Father Sergiy had said.
And when they started to form the religion, they began to introduce rituals and so on.
Well, stereotypical, all as should be in order to rule.
And the rest, they just destroyed them over a period of many years.
But it's not only with Christianity and so on. If we take, for example, Islam:
when prophet Muhammad came and brought the Qur’an, brought the Knowledge.
During his lifetime already, two people showed up who started to announce themselves
prophets, as equals.
This also happened. Even during his lifetime, it started to get modified.
And now we see this also... It's enough to just say something, give people something,
and the system tries to change it all. Tries to break up, to divide people.
And here Father Sergiy is absolutely right. The first thing system does is it divides people.
It divides into different communities, different faiths.
How many denominations are there in Christianity itself
- Just in Christianity, there are about 160 denominations.
- Just in Christianity.
- In Ukraine, there are 120.
- Imagine, 120 in one country, 120 denominations of the same faith.
How can this be? It already points at the fact that something is not right here.
Well, for me personally, this would be alarming.
- Well, yes...
- And each of them claims to be the one carrying the Truth...
- And only they...
- And only they... But the truth, as you can see, it's simple, there’s nothing complicated in it.
- And unified...
- Of course. It’s one for all. All the religions are based on those seeds
which were brought by prophets, and prophets were all speaking of the same thing.
They spoke of one God, but (as we mentioned in the previous programme)
who is "united in a multitude and is multiple in unity". They spoke of a simple way
of attaining the world of God. They spoke of elementary, simple things,
they spoke of that silver thread. And in the end, still everything got usurped,
and was set to serve, once again, the system itself.
And here we face the fact that it's not people who lose it, it’s the system that wins.
The enemy is strong because this is his world.
And the introduced knowledge about freedom is, in fact, let's say, "something different".
And, if we return to our heroes, about whom we talked - the *** cell and the egg cell.
They also are not a part of the bodies of either mother or father.
They are independent. And they are embedded into a different body, where it turns out...
in another body, note – the egg cell is produced by the organism of the mother,
and the *** cell is produced by the father’s body. It originates from something else.
But when they unite in the mother's body, they beget life.
And this analogy, repeating in fractal, let's say, from larger to smaller,
it clearly points at how to act and, in fact, one needs to study
and to strive purposefully towards the goal. Right?
But on this path, based on experience, we must understand that the system is strong.
It really is strong. And it doesn't care who to use.
And faithful adepts in the system's service are very many.
If someone says: "I don't serve the devil”, he, by the virtue of being completely certain
of the single material nature of this world, he is deeply mistaken.
Let's say, the first adepts of the devil, or of the system (whatever is preferable) are
people who say "I don't believe in God”. That is, “I’m a materialist. Prove the existence of God to me.”
Well, look in the mirror and think a little, why prove anything?
So, they stand at service already, and moreover, they are the most faithful ones.
The others who distort the Knowledge and think: “Well, here I will hide just a little bit, yes, for myself,
a little bit, in order to exploit.” It means that he works for the system as well.
But these people don't know what they are doing, this is really so.
Why? Because their Personality is under the control of the system itself,
and the system controls them. That's why they serve it.
They themselves are opposing the true Knowledge, unknowingly.
But to study, to listen to the inner voice, it’s just lazy.
And so, because of the lazy ones, good things are ruined.
It's sad, of course, but such is life, such are conditions.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- So, the whole concept of knowledge as such has been substituted in man's perception?
- Certainly. Even when we say "knowledge". Knowledge comes through development,
when a person himself opens before the spiritual world, he gets also
an understanding of that world. The whole difficulty is in serving that world, yes?
What does it mean to serve? To serve that world or this one.
Now we are touching: there is Knowledge and there is Service.
For us, Service has been substituted with holding some kind of ceremony,
holding some kind of ritual, rite. So, "I'm serving God, I perform some kind of ceremony".
So, we're going back to the priesthood, shamanism and so forth.
But, where is spirituality here? A simple question.
- It's not there.
- Well, it may be there for someone, a person who is trying, who believes.
But again, the problem of belief, we discussed it in the previous programme.
Knowledge and belief are different things. A person, while performing a rite without inner content,
but only emotionally and, again, with the help of "our" consciousness, it's the same as theatre.
Theatre is someone else’s life, which is repeated many times, which is shown
to us already in the director’s interpretation, and so forth. A waste of time, effort and everything else.
Yes, it may be spectacular, attractive and all that, but... it's just theatre,
just a performance, which doesn’t reflect the essence. Right?
Of course. But spiritual studies – they call for a deeper understanding,
these are individual studies; of course, they can be done collectively, too,
for example, the Cathars, they had the concept of "catharsis". The concept of cleansing,
we’ve already touched upon this subject. Why did they do it? The act of catharsis was done
to get acquainted (I will repeat myself a little) with the earthly world’s, of this world's, the system itself.
It turns out that a person, while sharing what was inside him, he would tear a mask off.
Imagine right now (we have a small group here), tell me, will it be easy for you to talk about
all of your sensual problems and everything else, about your actions, all the thoughts that came to you?
It’s difficult, it’s extremely difficult. Because such thoughts come – to every person –
you you wish you never heard them yourself. And here, in front of the group, to open up and tell it all.
What for? "I will be judged, I will be misunderstood" and so forth.
But the point was not to discuss someone, but to learn how the system itself works,
why it divides us. It divides us everywhere: we're divided physically,
we're divided intellectually, by languages, by distances, by every single thing.
And on top of that, we are separated by our own thoughts.
That's the point of the system itself.
But, we are united on the inside. Because what is in us, what we call the Soul -
it belongs to the unified world. Let's take (so it's clear) and light a candle,
we'll put it in the middle of the room and put up a whole lot of mirrors and turn the light off.
What will we see? We will see a room filled with many candles,
and there's no difference. Understand? It is the unified light which glows in a multitude.
And everyone, joining this light as a Personality, he becomes a part of this light.
That's the point in the spiritual world.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
In us, the consciousness splits everything, separates everything, it doesn't let us
feel this moment, it leads us away, makes man only think about the spiritual but not go.
And that's why man sits, doesn't go anywhere and thinks: “Am I doing the right thing?"
Well, I will put it this way. If you're going to sit there and think
whether you're doing the right thing or not, if you're going the right way or not...
how can you go if you are sitting? That's why you get up and you go.”
And the one who is thinking, let him think on his own. If you see the goal,
you will definitely get there, if you don't put in the power of your attention
into doubts and move in the opposite direction.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- Doubts, also, are one of the subjects that very often affects people, when in reality...
- Doubts are precisely an instrument of our brain. Doubts are always emotional.
Why? When a person is occupied with a "conversation" (there is this expression –
“a conversation with God"), that is, inner perception through feelings of the spiritual world,
or the development of this perception through feelings, he has no room for doubts.
Doubts are idleness of the mind, it's a game, it is egoism;
behind this doubt always stands the desire for something else.
It means a person doesn't want to renounce this world and doesn't want to perceive that one.
He wants to, to perceive that world, just in case, but he doesn't know it and he doesn't feel it,
and he is afraid to feel it because he is scared of losing this world.
It seems to him that he might miss something. Some mistrust arises (to something or someone),
even to God. By the way, this happens very often... What am I saying, "often"?
Let's put it this way: most people don't trust God. They have no doubts that He exists.
But they don't believe Him. Understand?
It doesn't mean they don't believe God himself. They don't believe themselves,
their inner feelings, they don't believe that they can do more here, that they can create immortality for themselves here.
They have doubts like "everything is mortal, everything is material, it's all not that way."
Why? Because they give the power of their attention exactly to the material thoughts.
This means they activate what? They activate the programs of consciousness,
and this is a temporarily existing factor… of course.
- Yes, at that it's interesting that, at the moment when a person comes into contact with that world,
doubts don't arise. They arise already actually after this,
when the brain turns on and starts analysing something.
- This is normal. But that's the people's trouble, that they're trying to, with their brain,
perceive and realise what he felt. What he encountered at the level of feelings.
That's impossible. When they try, with the brain, to perceive and realise who God is, they distort Him.
Why in some religions, they forbade completely depicting God, saints or something else --
to prevent distortion. In reality, even thinking about it is not very...
Because anyway, there will be distortions. It’s necessary to feel. Then there will be the Truth.
On the other hand, without thinking about it, then how to take the first step, at least.
See how many difficulties? Such is the world.
- The first step still starts from a thought...
- No, from feelings.
- From feelings.
- Of course. A person first must feel, then a thought will be born.
When a person hasn't encountered perception through feelings, he will call himself an atheist,
he will be against all the religions, he will most likely get into satanism.
- Here's one more question about the perception with feelings. Often people perceive
some vision of images and sounds for some kind of inner vision from the spiritual world.
- No, this vision is not from the spiritual world. These sounds and images…
Many people, when they are in the state of prayer, they see saints communicate with them
and come to them, but all this is the work of the brain. This all is a distraction
from perception through feelings. Because spiritual vision, let's say this way, it dramatically differs.
It doesn't have those form to which we're used in three-dimensionality.
And why, also, people encounter another problem (we’ve just discussed this).
When he has felt deeply, he had this spiritual burst, he felt the reality, the truth,
he felt at least a little bit, at least a drop of that boundless ocean for himself.
Then it dries up and that's it. The brain starts working, and the person loses this understanding.
In this lies that which, when you try to analyse with the brain, it translates all of this
into usual forms, forms of three-dimensionality.
And that which has no form, becomes visible for him in a distorted understanding.
- So it turns out that whatever the brain cannot perceive, it completely erases and removes?
- Our consciousness works this way, and if our consciousness doesn't see something,
it will make it up. It will compare it with some kind of association, what it looks like,
or it will connect two or three things, familiar to it, into one thing and will create all kinds of mess.
That's why, through consciousness, you cannot understand that world.
So is with the perception through feelings.
- Another question is: when a person comes into contact with perception through feelings – in a practice,
at some moment, and then after time passes, he puts this experience as a summit,
as some kind of attained benchmark. And the next time, he strives for this:
if he doesn't attain it, then it didn't work.
- No, this is absolutely wrong. What does it mean "attained or didn’t attain".
After all, this is not a competition. Again, an earthly stereotype, yes?
A stereotype from sports, right? Let's put it this way. If I jumped the bar of 4.80, then I need to reach higher.
This is association is not right. In general, there are no bars, benchmarks or anything.
Perception through feelings is perception through feelings. It's either there or it's not. There is no other option.
You can widen, you can deepen it – to no limit. But, some benchmark…. what kind of benchmark?
We perform a prayer while sitting or standing. How do you understand this? Or a meditation, for example.
A person's doing a meditation, he has felt, yes, thoughts are bothering him, something else,
He left thoughts and went into hallucinations – images started. This is what - a benchmark or what?
If at first, it was the thoughts that were bothering him and then hallucinations.
So, it’s necessary now to start meditating from hallucinations?
Or, maybe we’d rather get away from the material and delve into feelings?
The difference, once again, (we’ve already spoken about this),
the prayer leads to the awakening of feelings – that’s a long way, associatively.
And a meditation should cause these feelings directly,
The point of this meditation... Well, not so much a meditation but, in fact, a spiritual practice.
Actually, meditations were distorted quite significantly, and they help
to develop the mind, the brain, consciousness – anything but not Spirit.
On the contrary, most meditations hold a man as a Personality in
in the three-dimensional world. The force him to develop his consciousness,
making it free and expanded. However, consciousness, not feelings.
Why? A small substitution here, yet at the same time, many people spent a lot of time
looking for the cat where it doesn't exist. Do you understand?
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- So, a spiritual practice opens a way for a person to real feelings?
– Surely, of course – this is the direct way. Why? Because there’s no intermediary,
there are no images of any kind, no emotional component; there’s simply work.
That is, usually... To make it clear, let's put it this way, we are in this room,
we have 2 more rooms and then there’s an exit there, right? I am just saying approximately.
So imagine: we are sitting here and dreaming (simultaneously):
“We are going to get up right now, walk through one room, walk through another room,
then we will try to open the door, and exit…” You just get up and go.
That's the difference between a spiritual practice and a meditation, prayer, mantra...
You just do it. It's all simple.
- Is there any difference between... when a person gets on this path, possibly meditation will help in some...
- Of course. Prayers and meditations - are all auxiliary tools
in order to at least rein in your brain, to learn how to get less distracted, learn something else...
Of course, it's necessary. But again, this is work on oneself. There is no magic prayer,
there is no magic meditation. There isn't and there cannot be! Because everything you do,
you do with help of the brain at the beginning. But you try to calm it down,
try to learn to apply controlled attention into something, at least into some action
in the material world. These are the first steps.
- And then later...
And later, yes, more serious, more deep...
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- Igor Mikhailovich, what else can help a person today make this inner choice? Often, in letters, also...
- Imagine, you are given a choice of, say, two ice creams: one ice cream is in a box
and the second one is in a cup, it’s visible. What will you choose?
- Probably the one in the cup.
- Right.
- That which is visible.
- Of course. In order to... That one may be more tasty or may be worse.
Well, still you see, in three-dimensionality, here’s ice-cream and there it may be just a wrapper, yes?
It's hard to choose something you don't feel and don't understand. That's the problem.
And still, it starts from.. when you feel, at least a little, just a tiny bit...
And all of it starts from the basics, from a simple question (as we discussed in the last programme)
“Who are you?”
– “Who are you?"
- Who am I?...
- A person or a temporarily existing bug, who is here eating grass, fouling, making a mess?
Or maybe you are a human being, capable of more? Elementary.
- Behind this choice is daily work on oneself and confirmation of this choice?
- Well, this is not a choice, it's a necessity. Choice, choice, what you choose and so forth...
Are you ready to serve, you know? Here, you still need, to start with, prior to choosing anything,
you need to know what to choose. And for that, you need to study; you need to learn by yourself
and not listen to what someone told you, right? No matter what I tell you, it's just words,
words of the same person just like you who is sitting there blabbing. Am I right?
Blabbing about whatever he wants. He read a bunch of stuff and, who knows,
maybe he is not completely well mentally, and he’s blabbing whatever. It can be like that, right?
In any case, consciousness can tell this kind of thing to most people.
Why? So that a person doesn’t start working on himself. And work on yourself is in what?
In knowing, in the answer: are you mortal or immortal?
A simple answer. And why are you here? It turns out that you are here to attain immortality.
Nothing more, nothing less. That's the main meaning.
There is nothing more you can do here other than become an Angel, become immortal,
unite with that world. What can be more significant for the spiritual world?
Nothing. Right?
- Of course.
- Well, there is also the concept of service, when a person himself becomes a torch
in the darkness, and lights other lamps. Well, this is really magnificent.
Well, if a person is not capable of realising that he himself can shine in the darkness,
then it is difficult for him to ignite someone else.
For starters, at least it's this way, at the first stage.
- So, initially a person must feel everything himself and understand it, before...
- Definitely. Otherwise, he will make a lot of mistakes. Often people,
who have an opportunity to become a torch, they close in a dark room, in their problems,
and are hoping that one day they will gain enough strength, courage,
will come out and light their candle. And so they sit their whole lives in their dark room.
- That means, it can only be done here and now?
- Of course. The problem is that, let's put it this way, for a person, future is unpredictable,
and whether it will come is a big question. Right?
If you feel and can, you have to do it. Here and now. And not waver in the future.
Again, we return to our travellers from nothing to something. I mean, from *** cell to the egg cell.
Imagine his hesitations. Well, we observe this. This process has been studied,
many movies have been made about it already. So, many go to the right or to the left…
But they need to move straight, but they go wherever. So there's your answer. That's why,
if you want to reach your goal, move your tail fast and in the right direction,
and don't get distracted even for a second.
- Neither by doubts nor by uncertainty...
- Of course. Since that's the spawn of consciousness. Everything you name
is nothing other than a product of consciousness. It creates those barriers,
puts up those guards, and then tells you that you won't be able to overcome them.
"How? You won't have enough strength, who are you?”
- You’re not worthy...
- "You're not worthy, what are you? Just look in the mirror. Where are you going?
You don't belong there in the slightest, you little piggy so and so..." Right?
But as long as you consider yourself to be a piglet – a piglet will you be.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- Igor Mikhailovich, what about service? We’ve talked about it a lot, but haven’t expanded on this subject?
What does true service to the spiritual world mean?
- Well, responsibility. This is when a person not only keeps the inner fire burning in himself,
he attains it and keeps it burning. But he also shares this flame with others.
So that there were more light around. This is noble. This is worthy.
And then he doesn't come alone into the spiritual world, but with a company.
- That means, each person has a chance to become this fire.
– Surely, of course. Of course.
- And all the divisions as far as uncertainty and being unworthy go - is it still consciousness and?..
- It's the system. People's trouble is that they don't understand that the system
which our consciousness is a part of, is a living, thinking, really existing thing.
When a person studies it, working on himself daily, he understands that
thoughts are imposed on him, the same as his neighbour has. That one and the same system
manipulates both him and the neighbour. And it’s this system that divides them;
it makes them fight, envy each other and so forth. No matter, whatever you're busy with,
but you must be busy here in three-dimensionality with a bunch of big problems.
And not think about the spiritual. One mustn’t load up our brain with the boundless world.
First of all, it won't understand it, and secondly, it will always create maximum interference.
And will always belittle you. And will be telling you: “You won't be able to, you won't understand,
you won't do it, or you don't need this. Why do you need this? You’re living a good life anyway,
everything is great for you, now you will get into this mess, this sect or somewhere else...
And you will be manipulated, they will take away your apartment, your summer house
or something else. Even if you don't have an apartment or a summer house,
you will still get enslaved." Well, who needs you?!
And here there’s a little nuance: enslaved consciousness
is telling you about slavery. Understand?
That is, consciousness is nothing other than shackles on the Personality
that don’t let him go into boundlessness. And it will always tell the person and scare him
with the spiritual world. It will scare you, tell you that on this path, you will encounter
a lot of problems. You will lose everything you have. But what do you have?
Show me one thing that you have, name it, tell me what you have...
Or let somebody name something. Many will say: house, car, kids. I understand...
But will you take anything at all with you after death?
- Nothing...
- You have something you won't lose. But what will you not lose? If you lose even life...
What can you take with you whatsoever? And life, or what we call that, it is so short, so transient,
and the point of your existence here? Even if you've done a lot of good,
even if you built bridges connecting two sides. That's good, too, it's important,
it's necessary, you did it for people, but in the material world...
You facilitated the movement of bodies, but what about Spirit?...
You improved the existence of matter, but what about Spirit?
- Yes, but the person often practically doesn't even think about Spirit.
While doing something material, he tries to fit it to the values of this world, like good deeds,
something else, some stereotypes.
- It's always this way, this is normal. In reality, for our consciousness as part of the system,
it doesn't care how to distract you and how to confuse you.
The main thing is that you lose your way in broad daylight, and stayed here in three-dimensionality,
serving it. The demon is clever...
- That means, the whole system, all of this material world, which is, in fact
an empty illusion is directed to... does absolutely everything, without sparing any effort
or any means, in order to lead the person away from the main goal.
- Well, let's put it this way, it is actually very rational. It spares effort and time, and the like.
As long as the person is subordinated to it, or it can return the person or manipulate him -
it manipulates him. But when a person gains spiritual freedom, he is here
only temporarily existing and understands this well, that he is here existing temporarily.
Yes, there are, like being in the body, the usual needs and all. Well, if there is, there is,
if not, then not. So what?.. He can't manipulate much already.
That's why the system pretends that such people don't exist.
- And from this comes the distortion of the knowledge, and understanding of all this...
- And the distortion of knowledge, of course, it certainly must be...
- At that, distortions with substitution to the system's benefit.
- What is knowledge, yes? That which is communicated… (let's put it this way), communicated in the written form,
some can even read on the palms, the gist. without understanding the essence.
The point of this is to show people at least a little bit that in this darkness there is a small light.
So that a person starts to look for this light inside himself, that's why knowledge is passed down
so that people can find just a little bit of this light, inside in total darkness, let's say this way.
But distortions always come from the system.
That is, as soon as prophets in the past brought the Pure Knowledge here…
What does it mean "pure knowledge”? Pure knowledge is a direct path,
it's like us: "Get up and go". So they came and said: “Guys, get up and go".
It's all simple. So it all had to be distorted. Otherwise, everyone would "get up and go".
- Complicate it...
- Of course. To complicate and, again, (we already discussed this),
many began to use it, say, as a means of manipulation of knowledge
so as to keep people here. Well, this is normal. People who live by their consciousness,
by three-dimensionality and values, they don't understand...
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- One of the devil's acts is to prove that he doesn't exist. So people don't see him.
- But every day, every second, people are in contact with him.
- They contact him but don't see him...
Why is that? Because they are integrated into his body. That's the point.
This is exactly his organism.
- "A mosquito cannot understand an elephant while sitting at his surface”.
- It’s also unrealistic to, say, study it, of course. Not to understand, but to study even.
A mosquito cannot understand the elephant, either.
- It's not a secret - officially, in the Bible 1500 corrections have been made as of today.
And there is always a reason. Why, in the Bible, there is no mention of Satan.
Since who is Satan? It's one who we ourselves conceive and feed.
But there are no mentions. They were there - in the original.
- I will insert a small correction. The Satan is... We don't conceive him - we feed him.
That which some call the system – that is exactly that world
which is not interested in spiritual liberation of the Personality.
- And why was this done? There's a simple justification.
So that there is no temptation for an ordinary person to study. And what I said before,
this is exactly what he does - to show that he doesn't exist.
Because today people, just look around, how many people are walking, they're in the system.
They can't see the system from the inside. And they can't rise above it.
And to them it seems "yes, this is routine. No, He doesn't exist,
it's because everybody lives this way, everyone does this. And I live this way,
I do things this way, I am in this system."
- Yes, it is simpler to shift responsibility than to be responsible yourself.
After all, Imams (let's say like this), "those who come forward" – they always existed.
Yes, this is really so. Among the first Christians and so forth. A person who moved ahead,
and learned more, he always shared with those who were walking behind him.
And holding ceremonies or meeting for the purpose of studying... Someone always
stepped out and took on the responsibility of conducting it.
The only thing is that they changed, depending on the subject of discussion,
depending on the experience received by one or the other.
Someone came forward, that is, he became Imam and he led this meeting
of people in studying, in learning the material world, and the aspiration for the spiritual world.
Well, if I can say so. And it turns out that, again, by substituting people
who really worked on learning the system itself, that is, studied the devil, yes?
In fact, that's what happens, right? So, they studied the devil and, at the same time,
they showed the way and sought the spiritual world themselves.
By replacing them with a basic ritual performer, who just simply performs some ceremony (rite),
answering trite questions, without going deeper, and not understanding himself
where it will take the people who are following him or walking this path.
It turns out that they simply just took the truth and distorted it. It’s foolish, of course.
- There were groups of people who had the Knowledge, carried this Knowledge.
And, observing their achievements, observing their spiritual growth,
people started creating something of their own.
- So, once again, imitation. That is, there were people, there were groups
who still worked, really, and they lived in certain communities. And so, in order to imitate,
because they possessed a certain secret, certain power, they began to build
their own monasteries, seclude themselves from others and so forth. So the process of imitation started.
But without understanding the gist: why certain groups of people secluded themselves and what they did.
Kind of like, some kind of secret things. Magic – it's always interesting...
- Sacrament.
- And the truth is always simple and free, it's always open, like a palm.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- When they got into ceremonies, again, a substitution happened. What the gnostics had originally,
when they voiced their experience, expressed what they encountered –
came to an understanding, it was simply turned into what? Into a confession.
But even the confession itself is not about a person coming to Father: “I have sinned",
they make a sign of the cross on him and that's it: “Go and sin no more".
Where's realisation? Where's understanding? After all, confession
is translated as conversation. It's not two minutes, it’s an hour or two, or a day -
as long as needed. In order for a person to start to understand, at least for himself,
what is happening. To feel it for himself; after all, everybody contacts and understands.
That is, the sinfulness of the deed is in not understanding what you've done.
- And he doesn’t understand, once again, why? Because he lives in consciousness,
under the dictation of stereotypes. That's why the first students (as Father Sergiy mentioned)
of Jesus, in the first place, they studied their enemy.
There was this “unmasking of the enemy". They studied him, found him in themselves,
and got rid of him. But this is like (not a good example), one monkey
catching fleas on another monkey. There becomes fewer of them then.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- People try to do spiritual practices, meditations, with the goal of improving their health,
their physical condition.
- This is normal. This is called exploitation of God. Why?
A person's consciousness always builds relationships with the Personality in such a way,
especially in spiritual vein, saying, “If you believe in God, then he has to give you something.
Why do you need a God who doesn't give you anything in the material understanding?" Right?
And so, if we take and read all the legends, stories and everything else,
mentioning how saints created something. But they created in the material world,
with the help of spiritual powers to gain material benefits. Right?
And immediately, everything falls into place, in this understanding. It turns out that
people used spiritual powers to get some material benefits:
for manifestation of some kind of magic, to get something.
And, naturally, the person has already set their mind that “If I believe in God,
if I pray to Him, then He has to give me something. If He doesn't give me anything,
then it's a bad god. Or I got into the wrong religion." Right?
Actually, everything is simple. The use of spiritual powers or, put it this way,
of the power of attention, for acquiring something material is possible.
I'm not saying it's impossible - of course, it's possible. Many do exactly that.
But, like, the price is inadequate. By getting the temporary, you give up the eternal.
- The eternal.
- It's the same as putting in your five cents and losing a tenner.
It’s not logical. Bad business.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- Going back to the subject of the ”power of attention". Often, we can see a person
has his attention fully directed to the spiritual, to the Soul, to development,
but then, it's like, he wakes up at a moment
when he is already in the middle of some thought or an emotion...
- He is not waking up...
- Can't fix on that moment...
- I understand. The person doesn't notice the moment when he loses the path he was on.
He wakes up when he comes back to point A, on the way to God.
Why does this happen? Because the person still gives more attention to the material world.
He says: “How can I? I am living in this world." That’s easy! There are many who are doing it.
Why? Because they are not existing, they are living by that world.
And here they exist by coercion, while in the body. There’s nothing scary about it,
nobody is distracted by anything ... And all the distractions happen, when a person
seemed to be doing some practices, prayers, something else, and then involuntarily
came back (let's say) to where he started from. He just never went anywhere!
He didn't live by feelings, he didn't come into contact with the spiritual world,
he didn't perceive it, he didn't understand it. Or rather, he didn't perceive it.
If he had perceived it, he would have understood it. That's the right way to say it.
But when a person, while remaining in his usual state or in a slightly altered
state of consciousness (as they say nowadays), gets a certain hallucination,
that he has achieved something already, and then he gets distracted
and doesn't notice that he is back in this world. That only means that he didn't attain anything.
I will give a simple example. Just so it is clear. Now you are sitting
and talking to me. Well, basically, more or less normal, feeling fine,
let's put your feet into boiling water.
- That will be more difficult...
- Will you notice it?
- Of course.
- Why?
- Sensations, pain...
- Pain. Again, we're measuring by physical measurements of this three-dimensionality.
So then, when a Personality touches the spiritual world and returns here,
it gets into boiling water. This comparison isn’t right, it’s associative,
there are different processes there, but to make it clear, it's approximately the same.
It's impossible, when you step onto thorns with bare feet not to feel it.
It's just that putting the power of attention not into your spiritual development,
but into material interests happens because, in reality, the person hasn't made his choice.
Because this world is valuable to him. He holds on to it with both hands
and wants it to be good for him both here and there and like that.
He doesn't understand one thing: no matter how well he builds here,
in the spiritual world, he won't improve his status in any way. But by developing spiritually
and by really cognising the spiritual world, he certainly can improve here, too.
Why? Because here, everything that's valuable, it stops being valuable.
It's secondary. Really, everything here in this world is temporary, same as the body,
This value disappears, that's why the person becomes freer, well, from material dependence.
And he’s satisfied with what is.
- So, that means, when a person has a sincere aspiration to know the spiritual world,
to come in contact with it, then only due to this sincerity and honesty with himself,
he is able not to get distracted by some kind of…
- Of course. First of all, one has to be honest with oneself. Absolutely.
Here, you can't lie. You can lie to anyone, you can sit here and tell me stories,
and I will nod that I believe you. This is at the level of three-dimensionality.
At the level of feelings, no matter how beautifully you try to lie to me, I will still know that you're lying to me.
Understand? Why? Different perception of the whole. It reflects the truth
and doesn't adorn the reality with illusions.
- How does a person learn to be honest with himself?
- Just have to be, why does one have to learn? This is an inherent quality,
this is a gift people have. They just don't use it.
- And, at the moments of dishonesty, still this is the work of consciousness, right?
- What else? It is, first and foremost, work of consciousness. We just need to understand
at first, in order not to lose one's way in broad daylight, one really needs to pay attention
to study how the system works, how the devil's world tries to keep, let's put it this way,
a candidate for the position of Angel, in its hell.
- Can any person be a candidate for an Angel?
- Of course. Every person is really a candidate for Life.
Since what has been given to him, what we call life here, existence,
is nothing other than a precursor to Life eternal.
- But to learn this here and now through the brain is impossible, what they're trying...
- For what purpose? The brain will only perceive remote images. It's incapable of more.
Why learn with the brain something it's incapable of perceiving?
It's like measuring ocean with a beaker.
You wouldn't measure ocean with a beaker, right? And why is that?
Well, it's not realistic. A lifetime won't be enough.
How can a brain, which exists temporarily, embrace boundless eternity?
- It’s not realistic.
- That's the problem. And people are accustomed to trusting what?
- The brain.
- Not even the brain - consciousness. That would be more correct. A brain is just a brain.
Consciousness is a superstructure over the brain. Consciousness is not material.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- What if a person is switched to perception through feelings, when he really starts to...
- If he doesn't want it, it's impossible to switch him.
- If he himself switches to perception through feelings and begins to live by this world,
it's just that often people form this opinion that you can only live this way
if you are far away from people, don't work, don't socialise with people in any way.
- Always in prayers, or in some kind of meditation... this is not so.
Nothing gets in the person's way. You can be an active doer, live among people,
work hard physically or, I don't know, be a teacher, a scientist, do research...
it doesn't get in the way at all. It's just that it's one thing when the brain dominates over the Personality,
then there are a bunch of problems. When the Personality becomes free,
in the first place, of the dictatorship of the material world, everything falls into place.
It's like in that joke: when two acquaintances meet, and they haven't seen each other in a while,
one asks the other: “Listen, I’ve always had this question for you: how can you always
be calm, so happy, satisfied with life? There are so many problems and so forth.
- Well (he answers), I just never argue with fools.
He says: “But that's impossible, you can't live that way.”
“Well, if you can't, then you can’t.”
- Yes, this stereotype is very strong and often people ask how...
- You’ve just answered yourself...
– A stereotype...
- It's a stereotype. And in order to get rid of stereotypes, you must study them.
You must learn who is dictating in you, who is manipulating you.
Manipulating within you, not from somewhere on TV, from the press, or jumping out of the Internet - no.
In you. Who makes you pay attention, put the power of your attention into empty,
into something you don’t need? Into the transient and pale?
Who makes you be interested in something which, in reality, you don't need?
Who makes you think and worry about something you have nothing to do with?
And for what? When you understand this, study it, and this is learned precisely with the brain.
It learns itself. And it drives itself to a dead-end. And having come to a dead-end,
it gives freedom to the Personality. It’s very simple. It’s just that you mustn’t be lazy. You must really work.
- So, by asking the brain questions to which it doesn't know answers...
- You will get further and further from it, from its power. You will be gaining freedom.
- Because the questions which the brain can answer are only the ones that relate to this world.
Beyond that - that's it.
- It doesn't open. But how can a person learn this state of being in everyday life?
Really, like, in work, in family, anywhere... Because very often,
They say that, in fact, everyday life doesn't allow one to develop spiritually, yes?
- That's not true, that can't be. There are no barriers that can prevent a person
from knowing the world of God. There are none and there cannot be any. This is the brain talking.
Consciousness is talking. It distracts you, it always complicates.
What's the difference? Whatever you do, you can always feel, you have to feel the spiritual world.
And, first and foremost, constantly be in a dialogue with the world of God.
With God. Inseparable, this is a constant dialogue, this is wonderful.
And for that it's not necessary to sit somewhere out there for hours, far away from people,
on the top of a mountain or in some forest, secluded, and contemplate something
so that nothing distracts you. What doesn’t distract? The brain.
This means that people who seclude themselves, who go into the forest,
go somewhere, I don't know, some settlements and try to learn something --
they try to learn with the brain. How can you stuff an ocean into a beaker?
You must become an ocean.
Then it doesn't matter to you where your beaker is and what it's doing,
you just keep an eye on it so it doesn't make a mess. Right?
- Sure. Regarding settlements, it's very interesting. This subject, as of today,
is topical and somehow attractive to people...
- Well, it's attractive because it’s a little bit mystical, you understand?
Again, it's mostly magic that is appealing. People secluded themselves, they found...
They are not like us, some kind of power arose in them, they went, they settled,
they are over there doing... Let's say... Prayers, something else, they're closer to God.
So, what's the difference if a person lives by the brain? There’s no difference.
And if a person lives by the Spirit, then also there is no difference where he is.
In the centre of Tokyo or, excuse me, let's say, near the town of Zhitomir is his settlement.
What's the difference? Even in the mountains of Altai.
So it turns out external
conditions don’t matter much for the spiritual development?
Absolutely none. Neither external conditions nor
his location, nor the state of his
health, nothing… There are no obstacles, in fact, for
a person to become, let say,
a Human being with capital H. become spiritually free.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
– Igor Mikhailovich, returning to the question of
fear. Today we discussed that for the brain,
for the material component of man,
the spiritual world looks like something scary,
something not yet known, and exactly this often stops
a person. What should such a person do, whom fear
just closes and seizes?
– And for that one must study who causes fear in
him. How fear works in him. And for whom
in him it is beneficial that he doesn’t become free?
As simple as that. And again, we are returning to what?
To the same problems that it’s
necessary to truly work on yourself,
one must study everything carefully. It doesn’t happen just like that
so that something happened for nothing.
Well, let’s be honest. Sometimes it happens,
but in exceptional cases, when there is Someone
from that world. He can, for some great services,
help someone in it. But this is a single case,
that is happening once a millennium.
Well, it’s possible to wait, of course, what if you get lucky, and it will be you
who will encounter this guide and you
will know him, which is very important, note “you’ll know him”.
For the problem is that
people are blind. They don’t see who is in front of them. They see
just three-dimensionality. Right? And without having
spiritual development. How you can feel
the one who in front of you?! You will be evaluating with the brain,
and your brain will immediately tell you everything exactly
the opposite. On the contrary, it will tell you: "Just spit on
him, another conman
has showed up. Right? And, again, this chance,
even if that happens, you can miss.
Therefore, it is better to roll up your sleeves and
work on yourself, regardless of with what and where you are
and what you do. Correct?
– Yes. It turns out that the spiritual, the real spiritual life is
not good deeds and life according to some
moral principles, it's work on yourself.
– It's not entirely right. When man develops spiritually,
he does good deeds not because
he so wants or because he wants to seem good.
No, it's just the way of his life. He just does
good deeds. But in the understanding of our
three-dimensionality he sometimes can do quite harsh
things. In history, we
observe it, and even if we look at the prophets, not
always were they so merciful as people would
like. Sometimes they were quite brutal, sometimes
they beat people with sticks, so they didn't do foolish things.
It helped some. – Carrot and stick.
– Carrot and stick, yes. – And here's another question. How
does a person who
only gets on the spiritual path,
who touches, starts doing spiritual practices,
and meditations… How can he get away from perception...
Not from perception, but to get away from
thoughts, emotions, from consciousness? What can help him?
– Now look at me without
turning your head. Tell me, is the pen lying
on your notebook, does its label face upwards,
left, right or down? – I do not know.
– Why not? – I don’t see.
– But you were just looking at it.
– I didn't remember, didn't record.
– Didn't remember, didn't record, yes?
That's how you get away. – Thank you very much.
This is a very simple example. – It turns out the power...
– Where you invest your attention is what then activates.
– And the outer, again, system attracts,
three-dimensionality, right? – Of course. But note that
it's very rational. The system itself, but I
will tell a little bit for the lazy people, who are too lazy
to work on themselves, just open a little bit…
A curtain of a little secret here...
Thing is that the system is very
rational. If you do not invest the power of your
attention, it won't spend a lot of energy on you
to distract you, etc. If it tries several times,
and you don’t invest - well, that's it. It means you're not
interesting for it. So I will try to get to another one.
– And then there may be an answer to the people who
ask the question: “Why again I
turned in the wrong direction How did it happen?
Why has this thought defeated me and I give
attention?" So it means... – Well, of course. If a person
doesn't break away from this world, if for him it is much more
valuable, more important, more interesting than the spiritual
world, if he wants to only seem but not be,
naturally, he will get nowhere. He just
sits and thinks, understand? It's like
us passing these rooms. Here we sit and
we think how we stand and go through these rooms.
And you need to simply get up and go. And if we sit and
think, then we'll have plenty of distractions, somebody
will ask something, we'll read something interesting. Well,
we'll think later how we’ll go. And we
believe that we are walking towards the exit, right? At the same
time we’re sitting. That is, as long as we sit, we will
have all sorts of thoughts. We will be distracted. And if we
get up and walk confidently towards the exit,
then it doesn't matter to us, which side the label of the pen is turned.
Right? – Yes, thank you very much.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
Igor Mikhailovich, here's another question about the deepest
feelings. Very many people, even those who are
in contact with the knowledge, are trying to
get on the spiritual path
ask themselves this question over a period of many years.
How to understand, learn, and know the deepest feelings?
- What are the deepest feelings? Let's put it this way, people are not capable of understanding
what a "thought" is, but they see the result of it when they apply the power of their attention.
People cannot understand what the "deepest feelings" are even if they invest the power
of their attention and evoke, let's say like this, "surface emotions",
as a replacement for these "deepest feelings".
The "deepest feelings" are born inside, from the inner well of boundless,
like fresh waters, inexhaustible waters. And in order to touch those deepest feelings,
it's enough to just open the inner gate.
It is a beautiful component, which we don't want to call either emotions or thoughts -
with human words, in our understanding. Still, to translate it, and the correct translation is,
as the deepest feelings, even in the ancient sources. They are boundless,
as boundless as that world from which they originate. It's contact with
the world of God, with the Truth. And it is not false, it is real.
That's what the deepest feelings are. We can call it the light from the inexhaustible source.
But they exist. And you cannot feel them physically. And the problem is precisely
that people try to perceive them physically. Tell me, can you feel a thought physically?
- No.
- Why not? Since you have a whole pile of them. And even while performing a practice
or focusing on a prayer, thoughts distract and bother you. Why is that?
- Sure.
- But, you feel them? Or you don’t feel them?
- I don't feel them.
- But you observe them.
- I’m observe, yes.
- The same way that people observe the deepest feelings, the real ones.
But they get scared of their light and block their consciousness with the shadows of illusions.
- Man closes it out himself?
- Surely.
That's what the "deepest feelings" are. It is like the silver thread connecting
the Personality with the boundless world.
- You said that the deepest feelings are located behind the gate.
How does a person open this gate?
- It’s simple.
Much can be said about this, but it’s better to feel it.
Open up, and you will feel.
Like many others now. It's not difficult.
I will give a simple example. It's not exactly right, but it is associative in a way.
Close your eyes and put your hand on top. There’s a bright light, yes,
see, it's dark -- now take your hand off. The eyes are closed, but the light is there.
Even when consciousness is active, it is enough to just calm down
and stop lying to yourself. To take away its indignation, anger,
the emotion which it emits, just now. Right now.
And just immerse with your... immerse the power of your attention into the boundlessness,
Each person feels that somewhere inside of him there is boundlessness.
So, focus on this boundlessness, and you will see that this boundlessness is full – it’s not empty.
It's not an empty well. It’s an inexhaustible well of live waters.
It's easy, especially now, at this moment. For those who feel it, they understand this.
Right?
- Thank you.
Really, what is felt right now, at this moment, you understand that all the questions,
all the moments of doubt, pauses – they are simply empty and,
in reality, they don't exist before the spiritual world.
- Before the spiritual world - no. But when one is left alone with one's consciousness,
consciousness again begins to attack and dominate. Why is that?
- Because you attention...
- But you’ve just had the feelings, just now and they still remain.
So, give attention to them. And then, you won't lose this contact,
and then you will stop being blind and deaf – you will hear and see. Is that really difficult?
- No. Right now no.
- Right now, no... But it's enough to step outside the threshold, get distracted by some "trifle",
and consciousness will again attract the Personality's attention,
and will force it to put in the power of attention into these trifles. Right?
- That is the choice. Where you put the power of attention is what you choose.
And yet, everything is simple. Very simple.
To simply keep that which you just received. Right?...
Well, let's move on to a different subject, because we’ve just touched on something that
for many, will cause an attack of their consciousness on them… But that is their choice.
That's why, let's go into another subject a bit...
- Igor Mikhailovich, this question of how to keep feelings, how to retain them...
to hold on or not to hold on. Is it possible to keep them?
- It's impossible to keep them with consciousness, that's the trouble.
Just now, many people felt the same thing you did – that’s true.
And however many times they will watch it, while being and opening up in spirit,
they will feel it. But they will immediately go away from this. Why?
because trying to keep it with consciousness, even putting in the power of attention,
(how do we put it in, we think that we with the help of our consciousness, make a choice,
accentuate it on something, and put the power of our attention there, and it develops for us).
And so, by trying to accentuate, to attract our attention, to accentuate it on this feeling,
see, even now, I start talking and it decreases in you.
Why is that? Because the brain began to work.
- The brain switched on.
- It's not the brain that switched on. The power of the Personality's attention, tuned in to the brain,
and it began to analyse my words. That's where the problem arose.
And inside immediately, there’s emptiness. Still pleasant but already not the same.
What should have been done? To stay there where you were.
And it doesn't matter what's around. Because you don't lose the ability to hear,
the ability to see, and your brain or more exactly, your consciousness
is capable of analysing, but it doesn't eat up your attention.
In order to get something, one must give, too.
So when you give the power of your attention to the world of feelings,
that one, of which I spoke... And now a wave is again starting to grow, yes?
Why is that? You see how easy it is?
- Attention.
- See how easy? But it's easy because it’s near, yes? And, by yourself, is it really difficult?
No, not difficult. You just need to act that way. Like now.
And the more you put into your answer, your love, and love cannot be one-sided. Understand?
And feelings cannot be one-way, they should be mutual.
And, in this case, the boundless world represents a unit. And your Personality represents a unit.
And striving towards each other, the gate opens wide. Is that really difficult?
And note: that world of which we are now speaking, is always placid,
and it is always glad, and it is always open to any Personality.
Only the Personality blocks itself from it with the crooked mirrors of the septon field.
That's the problem.
Why is that? Because it's not active.
Because it hasn't been taught, this Personality, because consciousness is lazy.
Well, not the consciousness is lazy, the Personality is lazy.
It doesn't understand all the value. Since our Personality is like a child.
This is true. It's not capable... Our consciousness may be well-developed,
we can be academicians, professors, anyone. We can have many titles, make a lot of scientific discoveries,
but the Personality remains a child. And this is true...
This is another forbidden subject which I just shared.
But it’s forbidden not by us, it was forbidden by the priests, because, knowing this,
it's easy to control masses of people. Which is, actually, what we see.
But to control the people's consciousness, but not the Personality. Right?
- Yes. And the choice is still the Personality's.
- Of course. And no matter how power-hungry a person is, something else -
it's all empty. By spending the moments of life, these drops of energy, that are really in him,
on the empty and the temporary, this is foolish. Just foolish. No matter what you build.
They say that it's foolish to build castles in the sand. Believe me, everything you build in this life
is not even in the sand. It's in an illusion, which will be blown away much faster
than the sand will be washed away by the waves. Right?
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- Often, we hear about the pitfalls of consciousness, which may interfere
with a Personality, maybe they interfere, maybe...
- In reality, nothing is interfering with the Personality. The pitfalls of consciousness
is that lie which a person is sometimes even afraid to tell himself.
Since he wants to seem, and his ego tells him (well, his ego in the sense
of the ego of his consciousness) tells the Personality. Notice, consciousness is telling the Personality.
There is already a separation here, even in these concepts, and this is really so.
It tells him: you are a good person, you can do a lot, and like that, or something else.
But, in reality, you act this way, well, for some reasons.
This is not about pitfalls. This is simply a lie to yourself.
And the world of demons, devil, darkness, or to say it simply, our loved by many
three-dimensional world, the only one for many, and this is true - it is deceitful.
That's why many prophets, in their times, said that there will come a time
when people will start lying to each other, when the truth will be replaced with lies,
this will become commonplace, and then the last days will come.
Well, actually, if we look, consciousness has always been this way,
and this fits all the times. Believe me. Consciousness is a part of the three-dimensional world
that's why it is deceitful from the start. But what’s inside man – it never lies.
That spiritual, inner potential, it’s really enormous. The Personality possesses enourmous power,
which is capable of overcoming all the efforts of consciousness to somehow
enslave the Personality. But again, if there is an aspiration of the Personality itself
towards the true freedom. If it does not hold on, with the illusions of consciousness,
to this three-dimensional world. It's all simple.
Now look: we’ve talked a little, and that little world of feelings, of which there was a burst, it went away again. Why?
- Attention.
- There, you’re reminded again. The same thing happened to others.
Consciousness switches on, it starts to try to analyse, and the inner feelings are lost.
But what interfered with holding on to them?
- Well, as a matter of fact, nothing interfered, and still...
- So, that's why it is said that a person must work on himself every day,
practice, learn to hold on to it, not get distracted by an illusion.
But it doesn't mean “don't think, don't do", not by any means.
Be active, do even more than you did before, and don't be lazy.
But at the same time, let's put it this way, don't push away a hand held out to you,
but grab on tightly and hold on to it". Right?
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- So, when a person is in the state of perception with feelings or...
when the Personality is in a close unbreakable contact with the spiritual world,
then what does a person experience, first and foremost?
He experiences the absence of desires in the earthly world. And there is an understanding of everything,
basically, there is everything. Therein is a problem as well.
But when a person is dominated by consciousness, he cannot find peace.
He really cannot, no matter how he looks for it.
It seems to him that peace comes only when he falls asleep or he’s taking a nap.
But this is an illusion, too, because processes continue. And there's no peace.
Even when he feels good and he wants to relax, he still has to think about the fact
that he is relaxing and he feels good. Just note, this is really so.
You're lying on the beach, resting, and thinking “How good it is that I am lying on the beach and resting".
You might as well stay at home and lie on an acupressure mat, such as Lyapko or Kuznetsov's applicator,
and think that you're lying on wonderful sand, resting, feeling good,
the sun is shining, you are warm, you can hear the sound of sea nearby.
And everything is great, while at the same time, when it's -20 degrees Celcius outside,
you are lying at home under the blanket with a fever. But even regardless of this situation,
if you call up this hallucination, nothing will change. Isn't that right?
- Whether this way or that way – it's still an illusion.
- It’s still an illusion.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- During practices, many people face a battle with themselves, a battle between
consciousness, brain, keeping attention on feelings or switch on the brain.
How does this moment... one really gets pulled out of feelings into this fight.
Well, one doesn't get pulled out of feelings into this fight. It's just that Personality,
the person himself, the one who he is (he is a Personality), he sees fuss
in consciousness and gives it his attention. I will give a simple example.
There's your answer. Understand?
Again, your pen has just been your teacher now.
It’s the same with the person's consciousness. It begins to stir like it’s… It’s fighting for you, understand?
It's a good political move. When consciousness starts fighting for you
with you yourself. Understand? And you give the power of attention
because you're on the side of good. Tell me, who is the good one in your consciousness?
Who is fighting for your eternity, for your future Life, in your temporary and mortal consciousness?
Answer, please.
- The system... in consciousness. Consciousness itself is fighting for an illusion...
- Who is it fighting with? It creates for you illusory pictures...
- With itself...
- In reality, it's not fighting with anybody, it's just actively showing you illusory pictures
how it's fighting for you to keep the power of your attention on spiritual world, the world of feelings.
It's the same as the move with a pen. And the same as when you directed your eyes...
- And attention in the same direction...
- And attention to the side of the good, the one who’s fighting evil, but it's the same thing fighting,
in you yourself with you yourself. So, what should be done?
- Not give attention.
- If you are in the world of feelings, then why should you fight for it?
You are not fighting me for the pen, it's yours. And I don't lay claim to it.
Right?
It's easy?
- Right now, yes.
- So, this understanding needs to be kept.
Consciousness is deceitful, it will do everything to get you out of this state,
That's why, it's impossible for the enemy to fight for your good future.
And in this case, if we come to the concepts of the spiritual world and the material world,
then consciousness is the enemy of the spiritual world. This is true.
This cannot be otherwise. That's why, no matter what it does to you,
no matter how it fights for your... it's the same, you know, as... I would give this example
(maybe it's not exactly right, not exactly... well, it's not right, but it gives an understanding) --
it's the same thing as guards will fight for the prisoners' freedom.
As long as there are prisoners, the guards have a job. But if he fights for their freedom
and gets rid of all of them, what is he going to eat tomorrow, who will pay him
for guarding empty rooms? Right? There's your answer.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- We always want someone to be responsible, to shift responsibility to him. Why?
I'll say this one more time: the Personality is a child. And a child always needs an adult.
This is used, unfortunately... the same now as in the old days. When some people realised this,
they began to take advantage of it. But a child can get older if he is given such an opportunity.
Thing is that our attention, it really possesses power because it comes from the Personality.
And the Personality gets its power from eternity. And here there is a paradox.
If we think about death, we are forming it, we are creating it, and we become
nothing other than a temporary creature, mortal, doomed to prolonged suffering
as a subpersonality at the Soul's reincarnation and so forth. But when you put this power into eternity,
you are just moving in the right direction via the shortest way possible.
No need to think about death if you want to live. And it doesn't matter how long you have left:
a second, a year, or two, it doesn't matter. You just can't leave it for later,
if you put off this move for the next moment, you will never have it. That's the problem.
And so, for people, the concept of their "personal Armageddon" and what was told about it,
not as the end of the world, but as the last battle, the last frontier of man, --
this is precisely in this understanding, that there is no tomorrow, there is no next moment,
there is now. If you miss now, tomorrow will not come. Because tomorrow will be the same thing.
And the day after tomorrow the same thing. And freedom will be as illusive as the horizon.
No matter how long you run, it gets further and further away.
You will sit and dream about getting up and going.
And be sad that an entrance is not getting closer to you. I mean the exit is not getting closer.
Although, you could’ve just gotten up and go. Everything is simple. No complications here. Right?
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue
- Igor Mikhailovich, there is one interesting parable, when a person was hanging over a precipice,
hanging on to a branch as the last chance of salvation and started (even though he never
believed in God before), he started to pray to God to save him
and give empty promises that he will...
- And God said to him: “All right, I will catch you, but you let go of the branch". Yes?
And the person in doubt says: “How can I let it go if I will fall and die?”
I understand what you're asking about. But instead, I will tell you a different parable.
Once a tiger started chasing one man. The man, while running away from him, didn't notice a cliff
and fell. And he grabbed a branch and clung to it. He looks up
and sees that he cannot get out - there’s a tiger there. And to his horror, he heard that at the foot of the cliff,
there is another tiger. Whether he falls, a tiger will eat him, or if he climbs out - a tiger will eat him.
And when he realised that the body is mortal, he saw a beautiful berry beside him.
And he thought: “Why not eat it?” And he plucked the berry and ate it.
And he realised that "life is beautiful.”
I hope you’ve understood the answer.
And the body is really mortal.
Sooner or later – that's a concept of time. And time is a relative concept.
That's why "life is beautiful” – you just need to pick the berry.
FROM SOUL TO SOUL a frank dialogue