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TURNER HALL.
THIS WEEK, THE MINIMUM WAGE.
WHAT'S FAIR?
WELCOME TO "FOURTH STREET
FORUM."
I'M MARCUS WHITE FROM THE
GREATER MILWAUKEE FOUNDATION AND
I'M YOUR HOST, FOR THE FORUM.
THE GREATER MILWAUKEE FOUNDATION
IS A NEARLY CENTURY OLD
COMMUNITY FOUNDATION WITH A
MISSION OF INSPIRING
PHILANTHROPY AND STRENGTHENING
COMMUNITIES.
IT IS IN THAT SPIRIT THAT WE ARE
PARTNERING WITH MILWAUKEE PUBLIC
TELEVISION TO BRING YOU THESE
COMMUNITY CONVERSATIONS.
THE MINIMUM WAGE HAS BEEN IN THE
NEWS AGAIN LATELY, WITH
ORGANIZING EFFORTS AMONG
FAST-FOOD WORKERS AROUND THE
COUNTRY.
AT THE SAME TIME, THE FEDERAL
MINIMUM WAGE HAS NOT BEEN RAISED
SINCE 2009.
THAT'S WHY WE WANT TO EXAMINE
THIS QUESTION TODAY.
OUR GUESTS PAUL SECUNDA IS A
PROFESSOR OF LAW AT MARQUETTE
UNIVERSITY.
HE TEACHES LABOR AND EMPLOYMENT
LAW, EMPLOYEE BENEFITS LAW,
EMPLOYMENT DISCRIMINATION LAW,
AS WELL AS CIVIL PROCEDURE.
THE IN JANUARY■ç OF 2003, HE WAS
APPOINTED TO A U.S. DEPARTMENT
OF LABOR ADVISORY COUNCIL.
WELCOME, PAUL.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> DANA SCHULTZ IS THE CHAPTER
DIRECTOR FOR 9-TO-5 MILWAUKEE,
WHICH IS PART OF A NATIONAL
ORGANIZATION THAT LOBBIES TO
IMPROVE CONDITIONS FOR LOW
INCOME WORKING WOMEN.
9-TO-5 MILWAUKEE ALSO WORKS ON
ISSUES SUCH AS INCREASING THE
LIVING WAGE FOR ALL LOW INCOME
WORKERS.
>> WE'RE ACTUALLY 9 TO 5
WISCONSIN.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
YOU'VE GONE STATEWIDE.
CONGRATULATIONS.
ALL RIGHT.
WELCOME, DAY THAT.
STEVE STEVE BAAS IS THE
VICE-PRESIDENT OF GOVERNMENTAL
AFFAIRS FOR THE METROPOLITAN
MILWAUKEE ASSOCIATION OF
COMMERCE, AN ORGANIZATION THAT
WORKS FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF
BUSINESS.
MR. BASS IS A LOBBYIST WHO WORKS
WITH LEGISLATORS WHO IDENTIFY
PUBLIC POLICY ISSUES OF
IMPORTANT TO MMAC MEMBERSHIP.
WE'RE GOING TO START, PAUL, WITH
YOU, WE HAVE AN OPENING QUESTION
FOR EACH OF YOU, A BRIEF
QUESTION TO HELP US SORT OF SET
THE TONE ABOUT THIS■ç ISSUE AND
THEN WE'LL DIVE INTO SOME MORE
DETAILS.
PAUL, LET ME JUST ASK YOU VERY
BROADLY, WHY DOES THIS ISSUE
MATTER?
>> THE MINIMUM WAGE MATTERS
BECAUSE IT'S ABOUT ALL OF US AND
HOW WE PAY FOR THINGS THAT ARE
NECESSITIES, SUCH AS HOUSING AND
FOOD, AND HOW WE TAKE CARE OF
OUR FAMILIES.
IT'S ABOUT HOW WE GAIN WORTH AS
INDIVIDUALS.
MANY OF US IDENTIFY WITH THE
JOBS THAT WE HAVE.
IT'S MORE THAN JUST A WAY OF
MAKING A LIVING.
IT'S ABOUT HAVING DIGNITY AND
BELIEVING THAT YOU'RE BRINGING
VALUE TO SOCIETY WITH WHAT YOU
DO, WHAT YOU CONTRIBUTE.
SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE
MINIMUM WAGE, WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT HOW SOCIETY VALUES YOUR
CONTRIBUTION TO THE LARGER
COMMUNITY.
SO IT'S VERY IMPORTANT.
>> THANK YOU.
DANA, WHY IS THE MINIMUM WAGE
IMPORTANT TO 9 TO 5 WISCONSIN?
>> WELL, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANTY
EVERYONE HERE AND EVERYONE
LISTENING, BECAUSE WE'RE ON A
QUEST HERE IN THE COUNTRY TO
MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T SEE THE
TREND HAPPENING OF OUR CHILDREN
INHERITING A WORLD THAT'S NOT AS
GOOD AS THE WORLD THAT WE HAVE.
AND THAT'S A REALLY SCARY
THREAT.
WE ARE ON A QUEST TO SECURE MORE
PEOPLE INTO THE MIDDLE CLASS,
NOT LESS AND WE'RE ON A QUEST TO
STRENGTHEN FAMILIES AND IF
YOU'RE NOT ON THAT QUEST, I
CHALLENGE YOU ON THAT, BECAUSE
WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE
STRENGTHEN FAMILIES AND HAVING
WORKED THAT -- HAVING WORK TO
PAY THE BILLS WITHOUT HAVING
PUBLIC ASSISTANCE IS ABSOLUTELY
PART OF THAT FORMULA FOR MAKING
SURE EVERYONE WHO WORKS HARD HAS
THE CHANCE OF ACCESSING THE
AMERICAN DREAM.
>> STEVE, WHY IS THIS AN
IMPORTANT ISSUE?
>> IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US AT THE
MMAC BECAUSE YOU INTRODUCED US
AS REPRESENTING BUSINESS, BUT
WHEN WE REPRESENT BUSINESS, I
MEAN, OUR MEMBER BUSINESSES
CREATE OVER 300,000 JOBS IN THIS
REGION.■ç
OUR BUSINESSES ARE PUTTING FOOD
ON PEOPLE'S TABLES, PAYING
TUITION FOR PEOPLE TO GO TO
SCHOOL, PUTTING ROOFS OVERHEADS.
WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT BUSINESS,
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WORKERS.
AND THIS ISSUE IS IMPORTANT
BECAUSE WE NEED TO REMAIN
COMPETITIVE AS A REGION.
AND THIS ISSUE HAS RAMIFICATIONS
ON COST AND COMPETITIVENESS THAT
IMPACT BUSINESS, BUT IMPACT
WORKERS BECAUSE IF A BUSINESS
CAN'T SURVIVE, THE TRICKLE DOWN
IMPACT OF THAT GOES TO THE
WORKER.
>> WELL, IT'S HARD TO IMAGINE
THAT WE AREN'T ALL IMPACTED BY
WHAT HAPPENS TO THE BUSINESS
COMMUNITY.
EVERYBODY'S WORKING FOR SOMEONE
OR OWNING A BUSINESS OR -- SO
WHAT HAPPENS TO BUSINESS HAPPENS
PERHAPS TO ALL OF US.
WE'LL GET INTO ALL OF THIS A
LITTLE MORE.
WE WANT TO DO A LITTLE BIT MORE
OF CONTEXTUAL STUFF AND PAUL,
START WITH YOU ON THIS ONE AND
LOOK JUST AT OUR REGION,
PARTICULARLY THE UPPER MIDWEST.
IT'S INTERESTING TO NOTE THAT WE
IN OUR NEIGHBORING STATES,
SOMETIMES HAVE■ç DIFFERENT MINIM
WAGES, AND AN INTERESTING THING
TO NOTE ABOUT THAT, IS THAT
AMONG OUR NEIGHBORING STATES,
ILLINOIS HAS THE HIGHEST MINIMUM
WAGE, AND IT ALSO HAS THE
HIGHEST UNEMPLOYMENT RATE.
WHILE MINNESOTA HAS THE LOWEST
MINIMUM WAGE, AND THE LOWEST
UNEMPLOYMENT.
IS THERE A CORRELATION BETWEEN
HIGH UNEMPLOYMENT AND HIGH
WAGES?
>> LET ME TAKE A STEP BACK FOR A
2nd, BECAUSE TO FOCUS ON STATE
MINIMUM WAGE IS NOT EXACTLY
WHERE TO BEGIN.
WHERE TO BEGIN IS WITH THE
FEDERAL MINIMUM WAGE, BECAUSE
THE FEDERAL MINIMUM WAGE
ACTUALLY SETS THE FLOOR UNDER
WHICH STATES CANNOT GO.
>> WHY IS MINNESOTA $6.15 AN
HOUR?
>> THE REASON THAT MINNESOTA IS
$6.15 AN HOUR, BECAUSE SINCE
2009, WHEN THEY LAST RAISED THE
MINIMUM WAGE, MINNESOTA HASN'T
PUT A STATE LAW INTO PLACE WHICH
WOULD MAKE IT $7.25, WHICH IS
THE FEDERAL MINIMUM.
SO WISCONSIN AND■ç MINNESOTA ARE
TWO STATES THAT ACTUALLY IN
ESSENCE PAY THE FEDERAL MINIMUM
WAGE.
THERE ARE 22 STATES IN TOTAL
THAT PAY THE FEDERAL MINIMUM
WAGE AS THE STATE MINIMUM WAGE.
ILLINOIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF A
STATE THAT IS MORE GENEROUS,
YOU'RE ALLOWED TO GO BEFORE THE
FLOOR AS A STATE.
THE MOST GENEROUS IS THE STATE
OF WASHINGTON WHICH PAYS OVER $9
AN HOUR.
SO IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO
ACTUALLY LOOK AT A COMPARISON
BETWEEN UNEMPLOYMENT RATES IN
WASHINGTON STATE VERSUS
ILLINOIS.
THERE'S ALSO AND THIS IS AN
INTERESTING POINT, CITIES AND
LOCALITIES THAT HAVE THEIR OWN
MINIMUM WAGES, SO, FOR INSTANCE,
IN THE CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO,
THEY PAY OVER $10 AN HOUR.
SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR
THE AUDIENCE TO UNDERSTAND THAT
WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
MINIMUM WAGE LAW, YOU START AT A
FEDERAL MINIMUM, $7.25, SOME
STATES GO BEYOND THAT, AND SOME
LOCALITIES AND MUNICIPALITIES GO
EVEN FURTHER THAN THAT.
NOW TO YOUR QUESTION ABOUT
UNEMPLOYMENT AND WHETHER■ç IT'S
CONNECTED TO THE MINIMUM WAGE,
THAT IS THE MILLION DOLLAR
QUESTION.
AND I COULD CITE ECONOMISTS ON
BOTH SIDES OF THE DEBATE SAYING
THAT YES, IT DOES AFFECT
UNEMPLOYMENT, AND NO, IT
DOESN'T.
AND MY THOUGHT HERE IS THAT
MAYBE WE SHOULD FRAME THE DEBATE
DIFFERENTLY, BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE
TALKING ABOUT UNEMPLOYMENT,
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT POVERTY,
AND TRYING TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT OF
POVERTY.
AND ASKING WHETHER THIS LAW IS
AN ANTI-POVERTY DEVICE.
AND I THINK REALLY WHAT WE
SHOULD BE FOCUSED ON INSTEAD IS
ISSUES OF MORALITY.
ISSUES OF DIGNITY.
WHERE ARE THE SOCIAL COSTS WHEN
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PAYING A
CERTAIN WAGE TO A LARGE SEGMENT
OF OUR SOCIETY.
WHERE IS THE POWER DYNAMIC
BETWEEN THE EMPLOYER AND THE
EMPLOYEE?
DO EMPLOYEES HAVE THE THE
ABILITY TO BARGAIN FAIRLY WITH
THEIR EMPLOYER, TO GET MORE THAN
EITHER WHAT ILLINOIS OR
WISCONSIN OR■ç MINNESOTA PAYS, O
I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO
THINK ABOUT.
>> SO DANA, SPEAKING OF WORKERS
AND THEIR ABILITY TO GET MORE --
GIVEN THE CONSTITUENCY THAT YOU
WORK WITH, WHAT DO YOU ALL SEE
AS A REASONABLE MINIMUM WAGE?
>> WELL, I MEAN, RIGHT NOW, IF
YOU MAKE -- WORK FULL TIME AS A
MINIMUM WAGE, URINE MAKING
$15,000 A YEAR, SO I'M NOT SURE
HOW MANY PEOPLE CAN LIVE OFF
THAT AND THE ANSWER IS THEY
CAN'T.
WHEN COLONEL SANDERS DOESN'T MAY
THE WOMAN ENOUGH BEHIND THE
COUNTER TO PAY THE BILL, UNCLE
SAM PICKS UP THE BILL, SO WE'RE
SEEING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN
PUBLIC ASSISTANCE, BECAUSE
SOMETHING HAS TO GIVE.
YOU CAN'T HAVE BOTH.
YOU CAN'T HAVE THE LOW MINIMUM
WAGE AND NO JOB SUPPORTS.
SO THAT'S JUST A REALLY CRITICAL
PIECE THAT I THINK BRINGS IN THE
LARGER ECONOMY, SO WHAT IS A
FAIR -- I MEAN, I WOULD DEFER TO
THE EXPERTS THAT ARE REALLY NO
OFFENSE TO YOU GUYS, BUT THE
REAL EXPERTS WHO ARE LIVING ON
MINIMUM WAGE.■ç
SO MANY COURAGEOUS PEOPLE HAVE
BEEN STEPPING OUT AND SAYING, I
WORK REALLY HARD, I DESERVE
ENOUGH TO PAY FOR THE BASICS,
AND A VOICE AT MY WORKPLACE AND
ABILITY TO STICK TOGETHER WITH
MY WORK MATES, AND THEY'VE BEEN
ASKING FOR $15.
AND SAYING, YOU KNOW, IT'S STILL
TOUGH TO PAY THE BILLS OFF $15
AN HOUR.
SOME PEOPLE LAUGH AT THAT AND
SAY THAT'S TOO HIGH, BUT
SOMEPLACE BETWEEN $7.25 AND $15
IS WHERE WE NEED TO GO AND MAKE
SURE IT GOES UP WITH THE LOST OF
LIVING.
THAT'S THE BIG KICKER.
THE.
IN 1980, THE MINIMUM WAGE MEANT
SOMETHING.
THE SINGLE MOM OR DAD WOULD GET
THEMSELVES OUT OF POVERTY ON
MINIMUM WAGE, BUT IT HASN'T GONE
OFF AND IF IT WOULD HAVE, IT
WOULD BE AT $10.74 AN HOUR.
>> STEVE, WE HEAR A LOT,
PARTICULARLY FROM GOVERNOR
WALKER ABOUT COMPETING WITH
ILLINOIS AND THE FACT THAT
THINGS ARE NOT AS STRONG IN
ILLINOIS.
WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO TO BE
COMPETITIVE, AS YOU TALKED ABOUT
IN YOUR OPENING REMARKS, BUT AT
THE SAME TIME, IS THERE AN■
ABILITY TO INCREASE THE MINIMUM
WAGE SO THAT FAMILIES COULD MAKE
ENDS MEET?
>> I THINK, FIRST OF ALL, TO THE
QUESTION YOU ADDRESSED TO PAUL,
I MEAN, I DON'T THINK -- THERE'S
A CORRELATION, OBVIOUSLY,
BETWEEN MINIMUM WAGE AND
UNEMPLOYMENT.
I DON'T THINK IT'S AS SIMPLE AS
SOME MIGHT WANT TO MAKE IT.
THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT GO
IN TO THE COST OF DOING
BUSINESS, AND THE SIMPLE
ECONOMICS ARE, IF YOU KNOW, IF
YOUR VARIABLE COSTS OF PRODUCING
A GOOD EXCEEDS THE PRICE YOU CAN
GET FOR THAT GOOD, YOU'RE GOING
TO GO OUT OF BUSINESS ON THAT
GOOD OR ON THAT PRODUCT.
YOU HAVE TO -- I MEAN, THERE IS
A MARKETPLACE DYNAMIC THAT'S
ALWAYS GOING TO BE IF PLAY AND
IF ALL DUE RESPECT TO DANA, I
THINK THE EXPERTS ON THIS, THE
REAL EXPERTS ON THIS, ARE THE
JOB CREATORS, WHO ARE BALANCING
THOSE COSTS, IMPACTS DAY-TO-DAY,
INDIVIDUALLY IN EACH INDIVIDUAL
BUSINESS.
I MEAN, EVERY BUSINESS IS NOT
THE SAME.
EVERY INDIVIDUAL SITUATIOLç IS
NOT THE SAME.
EVERY COMPETITIVE REALITY FACING
THE ECONOMY IS NOT THE SAME FROM
STATE TO STATE OR BUSINESS TO
BUSINESS.
THE REAL EXPERTS HERE ARE THE
BUSINESSES WHO ARE CREATING THE
JOBS, WHO LOOK AND SAY, LOOK, MY
PIE IS THIS BIG.
DANE -- DANA WANTS TO SLICE THE
PIECES OF MY PIE BIGGER, THAT'S
GREAT, BUT I ONLY HAVE SO MUCH
PIE AND IF I HAVE BIGGER SLICES,
I ONLY HAVE FEWER SLICES AND ALL
OF A SUDDEN WITH ALL THE BEST
INTENTIONS IN THE WORLD, YOU
HAVE CREATED A HIGHER WAGE FOR
SOME WORKERS, BUT FOR FEWER
WORKERS, AND THAT'S NOT A GOOD
RESULT EITHER AND SO WE FEED TO
HAVE THIS BALANCE OF NOT ONLY
FAIRNESS, BUT COMPETITIVENESS,
AND WHAT THE RIPPLE EFFECTS AND
SOMETIMES THE UNINTENDED
CONSEQUENCES OF EVEN OUR BEST IF
TENSIONED POLICIES ARE IN THE
REAL WORLD.
>> WELL, I'D LOVE TO ACTUALLY
JUMP IN, BECAUSE THE PIE THAT
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A11e1ñ THE ,
MINIMUM WAGE WORKERS ARE BIG,
BIG COMPANIES WITH KIND OF
CORPORATE LEVEL, I'M TALKING
ABOUT FAST-FOOD INDUSTRIES, I'M
TALKING ABOUT THE RETAIL
INDUSTRIALS, I'M TALKING ABOUT
HOME HEALTH CARE.
LET'S TALK ABOUT THEIR PIES.
McDONALD'S ALONE MAKES
$5.5 BILLION IN PROFIT A YEAR.
THEY GOT A BIG PIE.
THERE'S A LOT OF RESOURCES
THERE, AND THEY ARE STILL PAYING
THE MINIMUM WAGE, AND DEPENDING
ON THE GOVERNMENT TO SUPPORT THE
THEIR WORKERS' PAY, SO WHEREAS
TAXPAYERS SUBSIDIZING HIGHLY
PROFITABLE COMPANIES, WE'RE NOT
TALKING ABOUT THE MOM AND POP
SHOPS THAT YOU MIGHT BE
REFERRING TO, WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT MOLES OF MINIMUM WAGE
EMPLOYERS -- MOST OF MINIMUM
WAGE EMPLOYERS ARE BIG COMPANIES
WITH HIGH PROFIT.
>> LET'S SAY YOU ARE TALKING
ABOUT THE MOM AND POP SHOPS TOO
AND THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH
GOING AFTER IT WITH A SLEDGE
HAMMER, RATHER THAN A SURGICAL
INSTRUMENT IS YOU'RE TALKING
ABOUT THE MOM AND POP SHOPS AND
WHEN YOU'RE■ç TALKING ABOUT
TAXPAYERS SUPPORTING IT,
BUSINESS PAYS TAXIS.
AS A MATTER OF FACT, PRIVATE
BUSINESS PAYS FOR EVERYTHING.
I MEAN, THE TAXES THEY PAY, THE
WAGES THEY PAY%, THAT THEN GET
TAXED BY THE GOVERNMENT, IT ALL
RIPPLES THROUGH THE ECONOMY, AND
SO TO TREAT TAXPAYERS AS
SEPARATE FROM BUSINESSES, IS A
FALSE -- IT'S A FALSE
REPRESENTATION.
>> I DID HAVE A FEELING THAT
TODAY I COULD JUST SORT OF SIT
HERE AND WATCH.
BUT I WANT TO LET -- I WANT TO
LET PAUL GET INTO IT IT.
>> I WANT TO SAY A COUPLE OF
THINGS.
FIRST OF ALL, WITH WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT THE PIE, THE PERSON WHO IS
GETTING THE BIGGEST PIECE OF THE
PIE IS THE EXECUTIVE, RIGHT?
THE EXECUTIVE OF McDONALD'S
MAKES $13.8 MILLION.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE AVERAGE
EMPLOYEE MAKES AT McDONALD'S?
$8.69 AN HOUR.
SO I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT
THE SHARED SACRIFICE.
I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT$$$,
WE ALL ARE PAYING OUR PART.
WHAT IS THE AVERAGE TAX THAT THE
WISCONSIN EMPLOYERS PAY IN THIS
STATE POST-SCOTT WALKER?
MY UNDERSTANDING IS TAXES ON
WISCONSIN EMPLOYERS HAVE GONE
DOWN SUBSTANTIALLY, IN ORDER TO
PAY FOR $900 MILLION IN SCHOOL
CUTS.
SO THIS -- THIS IS NOT ABOUT,
YOU KNOW, LET'S PRAISE THE
BUSINESSES, WE'LL ALL, YOU KNOW,
SACRIFICE ON THE ALTAR, THIS IS
ABOUT GETTING INTO A SITUATION
WHERE INDIVIDUALS AND EMPLOYERS
WORKING TOGETHER CAN ACTUALLY
HAVE AN EFFORT PRICE --
ENTERPRISE, WHERE THE EMPLOYER
CAN MAKE A PROFIT, WHICH BY THE
LAW IS WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO
DO AND WHERE EMPLOYEES CAN MAKE
A LIVING WAGE, USUALLY BASED
UPON A PREVAILING WAGE RIGHT IS
WHAT I WOULD SUSPECT.
I'LL POIT TO YOU ONE OTHER
THING.
IN AUSTRALIA, THE MINIMUM WAGE
IS $15.24.
THERE ARE McDONALD'S, THERE
ARE KFC'S, THERE ARE TACO BELLS
IF AUSTRALIA.
THEY PAY $15.24.
>> BURR AUSTRALIA ALSO GAUGES
THEIR MINIMUM WAGE BASED ON YOUR
AGE.
>> THEY DO.
>> AND THAT TO ME IS SORT OF A
STRANGE KIND OF WAY TO GO ABOUT
IT THAT SAYS YOUR LABOR IS ONLY
WORTH THIS MUCH, BECAUSE YOU'RE
17.
>> BY THE WAY, WE DO THE SAME
CONTINUING.
WE HAVE A SUBMINIMUM WAGE, WHERE
YOU CAN BE PAID $4.20, IF YOU'RE
UNDER THE AGE OF 20 FOR 90 DAYS,
SO WE HAD THAT AS WELL, BUT GO
TO ANOTHER COUNTRY.
GO TO FRANCE.
THEY PAY $12.40.
FOR MINIMUM WAGE.
YOU CAN GET BIG MAC IN FRANCE,
AND THEY PAY THEIR EMPLOYEES $5
MORE AN HOUR THAN WE PAY OUR
EMPLOYEES HERE IN THE UNITED
STATES, SO I -- I DON'T THINK
THIS ARGUMENT THAT WE CAN'T
AFFORD IT, WE'RE GOING TO LOSE■ç
JOBS, IS REALLY MUCH MORE THAN A
SCARE TACTIC.
>> SO STEVE, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T
REALLY KNOW WHERE THAT THRESHOLD
IS.
IF YOU RAISE THE PRICE OF A
BURGER, WHATEVER, YOU DON'T KNOW
HOW MANY CUSTOMERS YOU'RE GOING
TO LOSE UNTIL YOU CROSS THAT
THRESHOLD.
>> UNTIL YOU START LOSING THEM.
I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE WITH
PAUL ON THIS.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE IT,
BUT IT HAPPENS EVERY DAY IN THE
WORLD OF BUSINESS, AND IT
IMPACTS THE DECISIONS OF
EMPLOYERS.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE IN THE
LAW OF GRAVITY, BUT YOU JUMP OUT
THAT WINDOW, YOU'RE GOING TO
FALL TO YOUR DEATH.
YOU MAY NOT WANT TO BELIEVE THAT
IT IS THE BASIS ON WHICH AN
EMPLOYER AND AN ECONOMY MAKES
THEIR DECISIONS, BUT IT HAPPENS.
IT HAPPENS.
THEY BALANCE COSTS AGAINST
PROFITS AND THEY MAKE -- YOU
KNOW, THE FLIPSIDE OF BUSINESS
PAYS FOR EVERYTHING.
BUSINESS DOESN'T PAY FOR
ANYTHING.
BECAUSE IF YOU RAISE MY COST, AS
A BUSINESS PERSON, YOU KNOW WHAT
I'M GOING TO DO?
>> TAKE AWAY FROM■ç YOUR PROFIT.
>> I'M GOING TO RAISE THE COST
OF MY PRODUCT.
>> YOU'RE NOT GOING TO CUT
EXECUTIVE SALARIES?
>> I'M GOING TO RAISE THE COST
OF MY PRODUCT.
UP TO A POINT WHERE IT'S NO
LONGER COMPETITIVE.
BUT COMPETITIVENESS WORKS INTO
THIS AT EVERY SINGLE LEVEL AND
WE CAN WISH AN ECONOMY INTO
PLACE THAT WE WOULD LIKE, BUT
THEN WE HAVE TO DEAL IF A REAL
ECONOMY THAT CYSTS, AND IF --
THAT EXISTS AND IF WE CREATE
POCKETS OF HIGH COST, IT IMPACTS
OUR ABILITY TO CREATE JOBS.
>> YOU TALK ABOUT THE DECISIONS
BUSINESS OWNERS THAT HAVE MAKE I
TALKED TO A WOMAN WHO WORKED AT
WENDY'S, SHE'S BEEN WORKING
THERE FOR THREE YEARS AND WE
ASKED HER, WHAT WOULD A RAISE
LOOK LIKE FOR YOU, YOU'RE MAKING
$8 AFTER WORKING THERE THREE
YEARS, WHAT WOULD A RAISE LOOK
LIKE FOR YOU AND SHE HAS TWO
CHILDREN AND SHE THOUGHT ABOUT
IT AND SAID,■ç WELL, I WOULD
ADDRESS MY HOUSING SITUATION.
SHE SAID I'M HOMELESS RIGHT NOW.
AND I TALKED TO ANOTHER WOMAN,
WHAT WOULD A RAISE MEAN TO YOU
AND SHE WORKS AT KFC AND SHE
SAID IF I HAD A RAISE, I WOULD
BUY PAPER TOWEL, BECAUSE I CAN'T
AFFORD THEM, AND THAT'S A LUXURY
TO ME, TO THINK ABOUT HAVING TO
BE ABLE TO WIPE UP A MESS FROM
MY KIDS WITH A PAPER TOWEL, AND
THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF DECISIONS
THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE
ARE TRYING TO MAKE, IS WHAT KIND
OF FOOD, IF THEY GET FOOD TO PUT
ON THE TABLE, AND YOU KNOW, IF
THEY CAN PAY THEIR RENT AND
UTILITIES BILL OR WATER BILL,
THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF DECISIONS
THAT I THINK WE NEED TO BE
CONCERNED ABOUT AS A SOCIETY.
>> AND I THINK THAT IF WE DEPEND
UPON THE MARKET, YOU KNOW,
THERE'S THIS NEOCLASSICAL MARKET
WHERE SUPPLY MEETS DEMAND AND
YOU GET AN EQUILIBRIUM WAGE AND
WHAT THE MINIMUM WAGE DOES IS
RAISES THE LIBERATION MOVEMENT
BEE YUM WAGE TO A HIGHER LEVEL
NEOCLASSICAL MODEL, THERE WILL
BE MORE DEMAND, BUT LESS SUPPLY
IN THE LABOR MARKET, SO THERE
WILL BE UNEMPLOYMENT, BUT I
THINK WHAT THAT MISSES IS A FEW
THINGS.
I THINK, FIRST OF ALL, IT MISSES
THE FACT THAT THERE ARE
DIFFERENT SECTORS OF OUR
ECONOMY.
WE'RE ONLY REFERRING TO MINIMUM
WAGE WORKERS HERE.
THERE IS A LARGE SEGMENT OF THE
WORKFORCE WHO ARE EXEMPT FROM
MINIMUM WAGE LAWS.
WHITE COLLAR INDIVIDUALS,
PROFESSIONALS, EXECUTIVES,
ADMINISTRATORS, WHO DON'T FALL
UNDER THE MINIMUM WAGE AND SO
REALLY OUTSIDE OF THIS
DISCUSSION WE'RE HAVING.
THERE'S ALSO A NUMBER OF JOB
CATEGORIES THAT ARE NOT COVERED
BY THE MINIMUM WAGE.
DOMESTIC COMPANIONSHIP, A LARGE
SEGMENT OF AGRICULTURAL WORKERS
ARE NOT COVERED BY THE FAIR
LABOR STANDARDS ACT AND TO THE
POINT THAT WAS MADE EARLIER
ABOUT MOM AND POP SHOPS, YOU
KNOW, THE FAIR LABOR STANDARDS
ACT HAS BASICALLY A SMALL
EMPLOYER■ç EXEMPTION.
YOU HAVE TO GENERATE AT LEAST
$500,000 IN REVENUE A YEAR, IN
ORDER TO BE COVERED BY THE THE
MINIMUM WAGE.
>> WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT MOM
AND POP SHOPS AND STEVE, I WANT
TO ASK YOU THIS IN PARTICULAR.
SO I WAS RECENTLY READING IN THE
ECONOMIST, I SAY THAT AS OFTEN
AS I CAN, SO HE SEEM SMART.
>> IT DOESN'T MAKE YOU SOUND
SMART.
>> SO THEY ARE CONTENDING THAT
IN AMERICA'S RECOVERY, SINCE THE
RECESSION, COMPANIES THAT ARE
FIVE YEARS OLD OR YOUNGER, NEW
STARTUPS, ACCOUNT FOR ALL OF THE
NET JOB GROWTH.
SO YOU MIGHT HAVE A LARGE
EMPLOYER, RIGHT, THAT DURING THE
RECESSION, LAID PEOPLE OFF, THEY
INDEED HAVE BEEN HIRING, BUT
THEY'RE NOT BACK TO WHERE THEY
WERE.
SO THEY'RE SAYING THIS.
ALL NET JOB CREATION IN AMERICA
HAS BEEN IN NEW STARTUP SHOPS,
AND THEY EMPLOY TIP CLIP LESS
THAN FIVE PEOPLE EACH.
SO THAT -- I MEAN, THAT IS PART
OF AS WE ALL KNOW, THE AMERICAN
STORY, THAT IT IS SMALL
BUSINESSES.
STEVE, I JUST WONDER IF THAT'S
THE■ç CASE, IF THAT'S WHERE ALL
THE JOB GROWTH IS HAPPENING, IS
IT INEVITABLY LOWER WAGE, EVEN
TO START AND IF SO, IS THAT SORT
OF A NEW REALITY THAT WE'RE
GOING TO HAVE TO COME TO TERMS
WITH?
>> I DON'T THINK -- I DON'T
THINK IT'S INEVITABLY LOWER WAGE
TO START, BECAUSE ALL OF THOSE
TYPES OF JOBS ARE DIFFERENT.
I MEAN, YOU HAVE A WHOLE REALM
OF DIFFERENT THINGS AND THAT,
YOU KNOW, THAT STAFF HAS BEEN
QUOTED A LOT AND IT'S A LITTLE
MISLEADING, BECAUSE YOU HAVE BIG
FLUCTUATIONS IN BIG COMPANIES
WHERE YOU LOSE A LOT, THEY GAIN
A LOT.
>> YOU CAN HIRE 5,000 PEOPLE.
>> AND YOU KNOW, YOUR NET
TRAJECTORY ON THOSE SMALLER JOBS
IS STED YES, BUT YOU STILL HAVE,
YOU KNOW, BELL COWS IN TERMS OF
YOUR LARGE EMPLOYERS, BUT I
THINK IN THAT EMERGING COMPANY,
WHICH I THINK IS ASTRAND THAT IS
GOING TO KEEP GROWING -- IS
TREND THAT IS GOING TO KEEP
GROWING, YOU DON'T HAVE A ONE
SIZE FITS ALL MODEL IN■ç THERE D
I THINK FEWER AND FEWER OF THOSE
KIND OF JOBS, TOO, ARE JOBS THAT
ARE DEMANDING LOW SKILL,
TRADITIONAL LOW WAGE WORKERS AND
THIS IS ONE OF THE CHALLENGES,
YOU KNOW, WE CAN ARBITRARILY, WE
LOOK AT IT FROM THE BUSINESS
COMMUNITY STANDPOINT, WE CAN
ARBITRARILY SET WAGES AND YOU
KNOW, CHANGE THE MINIMUM WAGE
AND THIS AND THAT AND TALKED
ABOUT THE RIPPLE EFFECTS, BUT
THE REAL KEY HERE IS INCREASING
THE SKILL SETS THAT POTENTIAL
WORKERS HAVE SO THAT THEY CAN
COMPETE FOR THOSE SORT OF JOBS,
WHERE THEY'RE NOT THE MOST
EXPENDABLE WORKER WITH THE
LOWEST SKILLS, AND THE LOWEST
PAY ON THE ECONOMIC TOTEM POLE
AND SO, THIS IS, AGAIN, IS A
GLOBAL DISCUSSION THAT HAS TO
TAKE IN THINGS LIKE COLLEGE AND
CAREER READINESS, WORKFORCE
SKILLS AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS,
BECAUSE THOSE HELP DRIVE THE
NATURE OF THE WORKFORCE, WHICH
HELPS■ç DRIVE THE THE PAY, THAT
YOU HAVE WITHIN THAT WORKFORCE.
>> DID YOU DRIVE HERE TODAY?
>> NO, I DIDN'T.
>> OK.
WELL, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DID
DRIVE HERE TODAY, THE GUY WHO
MIGHT HAVE PARKED YOUR CAR, 30%
OF FOLKS IN MILWAUKEE WHO PARK
CARS HAVE A COLLEGE DEGREE.
THE SKILLS GAP IS IN A LOT OF
WAYS IS USED AS KIND OF A COVER
OF, WE HAVE A WAGE GAP AND A
JOBS GAP.
THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE LOOKING
FOR JOBS THAN THERE ARE JOBS OUT
THERE.
THERE IS A GOOD JOBS CRISIS,
THERE'S NOT ENOUGH OF THOSE GOOD
JOBS, WHERE IF YOU HAD THE
SKILLS, IF YOU WERE TO BECOME A
NURSE, I'M LOOKING AT NURSES IN
THE AUDIENCE, MAYBE POTENTIALLY,
AND YOU KNOW, THERE'S NOT ENOUGH
GOOD JOBS OUT THERE THAT HAVE A
SALARY, THAT HAVE THE BENEFITS,
THAT SECURE YOUR FAMILY IN THE
MIDDLE CLASS.
SO LET'S JUST BE REAL RIGHT NOW,
25% OF OUR WORKFORCE IN AMERICA
IS ABOUT -- IS LOW WAGE SERVICE
SECTOR AND IF WE DO NOTHING TO
CHANGE THAT, IN JUST SEVEN
YEARS, 2020, WE'RE LO%9
48% OF OUR WORKFORCE BEING THAT
LOW WAGE SERVICE SECTOR JOBS,
BECAUSE THOSE JOBS CAN'T BE
OUTSOURCED.
FAST-FOOD AND RETAIL AND HOME
HEALTH CARE IS HERE TO STAY.
SO IF WE DON'T RAISE THE FLOOR,
OUR WHOLE ECONOMY WILL STALL
BECAUSE THERE'S NOT ENOUGH
MONEY.
>> AND THERE'S SOMETHING
ECONOMISTS SAY ALL THE TIME
ABOUT THIS, AND YOU MENTIONED
THE RIPPLE EFFECT.
THE RIPPLE EFFECT IS ALSO THIS
IDEA THAT A RAISING TIDE FLOATS
ALL THE BOATS IN THE OCEAN,
RAISES ALL THE BOATS IN THE
OCEAN, SO THAT IF YOU RAISE THE
MINIMUM WAGE FROM, LET'S SAY,
$7.25 TO WHAT PRESIDENT OBAMA
HAS SUGGESTED, WHICH IS $9 AN
HOUR, IT'S NOT JUST THE PEOPLE
WHO ARE AT $7.25, WHO ARE GOING
TO MOVE TO $9 AN HOW MANY.
THE PERSON WHO IS NOW MAKING $9
AN HOUR IS GOING TO MOVE UP TO
$10.50 AND THE 13 MAKING $13 AN
HOUR IS GOING TO MOVE UP AS
WELL, SO■ç THERE'S A RIPPLE EFFT
AS WELL WHEN YOU RAISE THE
MINIMUM WAGE, WHICH I THINK IS
ALSO SOMETHING TO CONSIDER.
>> AND INCREASING CONSUMER
SPENDING, THEY SAY FOR EVERY
DOLLAR A MINIMUM WAGE WORKER
MAKES, $2,800 OF NEW CONSUMER
SPENDING GOES BACK IN TO THE
LOCAL ECONOMY THAT FOLLOWING
YEAR, BECAUSE PEOPLE WHO MAKE
MINIMUM WAGE ARE GOING TO SPEND
ALL THE MONEY THEY HAVE.
>> THAT'S AN INTERESTING
QUESTION.
ARE WE CREATING ADDITIONAL NEW
CONSUMERS, IF INDEED WE RAISE
THE MINIMUM WAGE.
>> ARE WE CREATING NEW
CONSUMERS, NOT NECESSARILY JUST
CREATING, WHAT KIND OF CONSUMERS
ARE WE CREATING AND WHAT KIND OF
MARKET ARE WE SUPPORTING?
ARE WE JUST WASHING EACH OTHER'S
SOCKS HERE AND THERE'S MORE
MONEY GOING IF BUT YOUR DOLLAR
VALUE MEAL COSTS YOU $2.25 AND
YOU'RE NOT GENERATING ANYTHING
NEW BUT SHIFTING PRICES AROUND,
BECAUSE EVERY TIME YOU'RE
RAISING THE COSTS ON ONE SIDE,
YOU'VE RAISED THE COST ON THE
OTHER SIDE TOO, AND WE'RE
THROWING NEW NUMBERS ON■ç THE SE
EQUATION.
>> BUT THE EQUATION IS THAT,
AGAIN, NOT TO HARP ON IT TOO
MUCH, BUT EXECUTIVES MAKE 500-1
MORE THAN YOUR AVERAGE EMPLOYEE,
RIGHT?
AND I HAVEN'T HEARD YOU ONCE
TALK ABOUT EXECUTIVE
COMPENSATION.
>> WELL, IT'S NOT OUR TOPIC.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S AN
EITHER/OR KIND OF THING.
>> IT IS PART OF OUR
I CAN, BECAUSE -- TOPIC, BECAUSE
WHEN YOU GIVE A $13 MILLION,
THINK HOW MANY LOW WAGE SALARIES
CAN FIT INTO THAT EXECUTIVE'S.
I'M NOT SUGGESTING THE
McDONALD'S C.E.O. SHOULD BE
MAKING $25,000, $50,000 A YEAR.
AN EXECUTIVE CAN MAKE A LARGE
SUM, $500,000 SEEMS LIKE
SOMETHING THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE
TO MEPPS, BUT WHEN IT GETS TO
THIS OUT LANDISH AMOUNT OF
MONEY, WHICH IS IN NO WAY
PROPORTIONATE TO WHAT THE
WORKERS ARE MAKING, THE SYSTEM
HAS BROKEN DOWN AND HERE'S
SOMETHING ELSE, I KNOW WE'RE NOT
TALKING ABOUT TODAY, BUT THINK
ABOUT THE DEMISE OF UNIONS.
THERE ARE NO UNIONS IN THIS
COUNTRY■ç ANYMORE.
AND WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT?
BECAUSE THE WAY THAT A LOT OF
COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD DEAL WITH
MINIMUM WAGE, IS NOT THROUGH
LEGISLATION.
THEY DEAL WITH IT THROUGH
COLLECTIVE BARGAINING.
GERMANY, WHICH IS THE
POWERHOUSE --
>> NO MINIMUM WAGE IN GERMANY.
>> NO MINIMUM WAGE IF GERMANY.
THEY DO IT THROUGH COLLECTIVE
BARGAINING BECAUSE THEY HAD THE
WORK COUNCILS AND OTHER
MECHANISM WHICH GIVE EMPLOYEES
THE VOICE IN THE WORKPLACE.
SO WE NEED EMPLOYEE VOICE IN THE
WORKPLACE, SO EMPLOYEES CAN GET
A FAIR WAGE.
>> I DON'T MEAN TO JUMP YOUR
ROUTE ON THIS, DANA, BUT ON
EXECUTIVE PAY, LEGITIMATE TOPIC,
GREAT P TO I CAN, BUT IT SHOWS
THE DIFFICULTY.
YOU THINK $13 MILLION IS TOO
MUCH.
YOU THINK $50,000 IS TOO LITTLE.
YOU THINK $500,000 MIGHT STEAM
RIGHT -- SEEM RIGHT.
WHY?
>> BECAUSE I'LL COMPARING IT TO
AN AVERAGE WORKER.
>> YOU THINK $7.25 IS TOO
LITTLE.
WHY NOT A $50 MINIMUM WAGE?
MAYBE■ç SOMEBODY THINKS THAT TOO
MUCH.
YOU THINK $15 MIGHT BE TOO HIGH?
WE'RE MAKING ALL THESE THINGS
ARBITRARILY BASED ON YOUR
DECISIONS OF WHAT IS FAIR AND
WHAT IS RIGHT AND YOUR DECISIONS
OF WHAT IS FAIR AND RIGHT MAY BE
VERY DIFFERENT FROM ANYBODY IN
THE AUDIENCE OFFER ANYBODY HERE,
AND WHETHER -- OR ANYBODY HERE
AND WHEN WE PRESUME TO BE THE
ARBITER OF FAIR AND RIGHT, IT'S
A DANGEROUS PRESUMPTION TO MAKE,
BECAUSE WE ALL HAVE A LOT OF
DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES ON FAIR
AND RIGHT.
>> WELL, WHAT'S DANGEROUS IS NOT
STANDING UP FOR THE
RESPONSIBILITY WE HAVE TO SAY
THAT WE NEED TO SET A FLOOR AS A
COUNTRY.
IF WE DIDN'T HAVE A MINIMUM
WAGE, IT'S BASICALLY SAYING
SLAVERY IS OK.
>> SLAVERY IN GERMANY.
>> I HEARD YOU, DANA, I THINK
USE A EUPHEISM.
YOU SAID WORKERS WANT TO STICK
TOGETHER WITH MY WORK MATES.
THAT SOUNDS■ç LIKE A UNION?
IS THAT WHAT YOU MEANT?
IF WE LEGISLATE A HIGHER MINIMUM
WAGE, ISN'T THAT ENOUGH, THE
LEGISLATION THAT WOULD CREATE A
DIFFERENT FLOOR?
>> WELL, HERE'S THE THING, IF
YOU'RE PREGNANT AND YOU GET
FIRED AT THE END OF YOUR
PREGNANCY, WHICH I CAN TELL YOU
IS A REALITY, EVEN THOUGH IT'S
TECHNICALLY LEGAL, AND YOU DON'T
HAVE A VOICE TO KEEP YOUR JOB, I
MEAN, A MINIMUM WAGE DOESN'T
REALLY HELP YOU WHEN YOU DON'T
HAVE A JOB.
IF YOU'RE -- IF YOU'RE BEING
DISCRIMINATED BECAUSE YOU'RE A
NEW DAD AND YOU CAN'T GO ON
BUSINESS TRIPS BECAUSE YOU'RE A
NEW DAD, THE MINIMUM WAGE
DOESN'T HELP YOU.
IF YOU -- IF YOUR WAGES ARE
BEING STOLEN BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT
GETTING OVERTIME YOU DESERVE OR
YOU'RE ASKED TO CLOCK IN
AFTER -- AN HOUR AFTER YOU SIT
IN THE WAITING ROOM, A MINIMUM
WAGE DOESN'T HELP.
SO WE NEED -- IF YOU DON'T HAVE
HEALTH CARE AND YOU GET SICK AND
YOU'RE BANKRUPT, THE MINIMUM
WAGE -- IF YOU DON'T HAVE -- IF
YOU HAVE SO MUCH STIFLING
STUDENT DEBT, THE MINIMUM WAGE
ALSO HURTS YOU.
SO I MINE,■ç IT'S PART OF THE
FORMULA TO ACCESS THE AMERICAN
DREAM.
BUT IF YOU DON'T HAVE A VOICE AT
YOUR WORKPLACE, YOU'RE OUT OF A
JOB QUICKER THAN YOU KNOW.
>> TRY TO MAKE A HISTORICAL
POINT HERE?
WHEN THE FAIR LABOR STANDARDS
ACT WAS PASSED IN 1938, BY
FRANKLIN DELANOR ROOSEVELT AS
FAR AS THE NEW DEAL, IT WAS PART
OF THIS ATTEMPT BY THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT TO PROVIDE MORE
SPENDING POWER, PURCHASING
POWER, FOR THOSE WHO EITHER WERE
EMPLOYED BUT WERE MAKING LOW
WAGES OR WERE UNEMPLOYED BY
GIVING THEM JOBS AND GIVING THEM
PURCHASING POWER.
>> SO MINIMUM WAGE AS ECONOMIC
STIMULUS?
>> YES, BUT IT'S MORE THAN THAT.
IT WAS PART OF A LARGER PROGRAM
THAT ALSO INCLUDED THE SOCIAL
SECURITY ACT, WHICH WAS ENACTED
AT THE SAME TIME.
THE WAGNER ACT, WHICH IS THE
UNION ACT OF 1935 THAT WAS
ENACTED.
THE IDEA WAS, ALL THESE■ç THING,
WAGES, BENEFITS, TERMS,
CONDITIONS, OF EMPLOYMENT, ARE
INTERRELATED, AND SO IF ONE
THING ISN'T WORKING OUT, IT
AFFECTS EVERYTHING ELSE AND THE
EXAMPLE IS ONE THAT DANA BROUGHT
UP RECENTLY, WHICH IS THAT IN AN
INDUSTRY WHICH DOESN'T PAY ITS
EMPLOYEES ENOUGH MONEY, SO THAT
THEY CAN'T AFFORD THE HEALTH
CARE THAT THE EMPLOYER IS
PROVIDING, WHAT HAPPENS?
EITHER THEY GO ON SOMETHING LIKE
MEDICAID, OR THEY GO WITHOUT,
RIGHT 70 AND SO THERE'S A SOCIAL
COST HERE THAT WE'RE FORGETTING.
IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT WAGES, BUT
THERE'S THESE BENEFITS THAT ARE
IMPORTANT AS WELL.
>> WELL, LET ME ASK YOU, STEVE,
WE TALKED ABOUT THIS, YOU
MENTIONED SORT OF THE BUSINESS
PAID TAXES, -- BUSINESSES PAY
TAXES, AS WELL AS INDIVIDUALS
AND DANA IS TALKING ABOUT SOME
OF THE PROGRAMS THAT EXIST.
THE EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT IS
HUGE, THE FOOD STAMP PROGRAM IS
HUGE AND GROWING IN THIS■ç
COUNTRY.
I DON'T WANT TO -- LET'S NOT GET
IN TO THAT BECAUSE THAT IS NOT A
CLEAR-CUT ISSUE EITHER, BUT
THERE ARE FOOD STAMPS THAT
MILLIONS OF HOUSEHOLDS USE AND
THE EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT.
ARE THOSE WELFARE PROGRAMS FOR
LOW INCOME FAMILIES, OR ARE
THOSE SUBSIDIES FOR LOW WAGE
EMPLOYERS?
>> WELL, I THINK THEY'RE THE
FORMER, AND I THINK THOSE
PROGRAMS WERE CREATED IN THE
ACKNOWLEDGEMENT THAT THE
MARKETPLACE MAY NOT BE WORKING
FOR EVERYBODY IN A WAY THAT IS
ABLE TO SUPPORT THEM IN THE WAY
THEY WOULD -- IN A LIFESTYLE
THEY WOULD LIKE TO LIVE, OR
COULD EXPECT TO LIVER IN A FREE
SOCIETY.
AND I THINK THAT'S A DECISION WE
MADE AS A COUNTRY AND WE PUT
THOSE THINGS IN PLACE AND WE PUT
THEM IN PLACE ACROSS-THE-BOARD,
MUCH LIKE WE'VE DONE WITH THE
MINIMUM WAGE FEDERALLY.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK
IS A SCARY PROSPECT HERE IN
WISCONSIN,■ç IS TO BE MOVING OUR
MINIMUM WAGE AROUND BEYOND THE
FEDERAL STANDARDS, AND CREATING
AN ISLAND OF COST DIFFERENTIAL
WITH OTHER STATES ON THIS SORT
OF THING.
THAT'S WHERE -- A FEDERAL
STANDARD, NO MATTER HOW BUMPY
THE PLAYING FIELD MAY BE, IF
EVERYBODY IS ON THE SAME PLAYING
FIELD, THE COMPETITIVENESS
IMPACTS ARE DIFFERENT, FOR A
STATE ECONOMY THAN THEY ARE.
>> DO YOU THINK THIS COULD
SUPPORT A HIGHER MINIMUM WAGE,
IF INDEED IT WAS UNIFORM.
>> I THINK SOME COULD.
SOME WOULD STILL HAVE A PROBLEM
WITH IT, BUT YOU GET A LOT MORE
SUPPORT FOR A UNIFORM NATIONAL
MINIMUM WAGE THAN YOU DO FOR
POCKETS OF DIFFERENT COSTS
EVERYWHERE.
I MEAN, THERE ARE COST IMPACTS
TO THAT, ADMINISTRATIVE IMPACTS
TO THAT, WHICH DRIVE ADDITIONAL
COSTS WITHIN BUSINESSES.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, NOBODY
WHO IS WORTH THEIR SALT IN
BUSINESS, UNDERVALUES GOOD
EMPLOYEES.
NOBODY UNDERSTANDS THE NEED FOR
GOOD EMPLOYEES MORE THAN GOOD
EMPLOYERS.■'
AND IF A COMPANY NEGLECTS ITS
WORKFORCE, IT'S NOT GOING TO BE
IN BUSINESS OR BE SUCCESSFUL IN
BUSINESS FOR VERY LONG, SO IT'S
NOT LIKE BUSINESS IS OUT THERE
LOOKING TO DRIVE THINGS DOWN, TO
DRIVE, YOU KNOW, THE WORKING
CLASS INTO THE DIRT, BECAUSE IF
THEY DO THAT, ESPECIALLY -- DANA
POINTED IT OUT.
WE HAVE AN ECONOMY THAT IN SOME
WAYS, SHOULD BE VERY COMPETITIVE
FOR WORKERS RIGHT NOW.
BUSINESSES KNOW THAT.
THEY GET GOOD WORKERS, THEY GO
TO EXTRAORDINARY LENGTHS TO KEEP
THEM.
AND SO, I MEAN, BUSINESS
UNDERSTANDS THAT SIDE OF THE
DYNAMIC AS WELL.
>> UNLESS THEY'RE PREGNANT,
UNLESS THEY HAVE KIDS THAT ARE
SICK, UNLESS THEY GET SICK
THEMSELVES.
THEN THAT WORKER BECOMES VERY
VULNERABLE AND I'VE SEEN IT DAY
IF AND DAY OUT, AND SO --
>> ACTUALLY, THE DAY IF AND DAY
OUT WHERE EMPLOYERS HAVE GONE TO
EXTRAORDINARY LENGTHS TO KEEP
PREGNANT, SICK, YOU KNOW --
>> THERE'S A LOT OF BUSINESSES
THAT SUPPORT A FAIR MINIMUM■ç
WAGE.
GO TO THE WEB SITE, BUSINESSES
FOR A FAIR MINIMUM WAGE.
THE OWNER OF COSTCO HAS GONE OUT
AND SAID THE MORE PEOPLE MAKE
THE BETTER LIVES THEY'RE GOING
TO HAVE AND THE BETTER CONSUMERS
THEY'RE GOING TO BE.
IT'S GOING TO BE A BETTER JOB
AND BETTER WAGES.
I MEAN, NOT ALL BUSINESSES ARE
ALIKE IN THIS REGARD.
>> WE'RE GOING TO SHIFT AT THIS
POINT.
WE'RE GOING TO TAKE SOME
QUESTIONS FROM OUR AUDIENCE HERE
AT HISTORIC TURNER HALL.
YES, PLEASE.
>> GOOD AFTERNOON.
I'M DAVID RIEMER WITH COMMUNITY
ADVOCATES PUBLIC POLICY
INSTITUTE.
MY ORGANIZATION RECENTLY
PRODUCED A STUDY, IT SHOWED THAT
IF YOU PUT TOGETHER A
TRANSITIONAL JOBS PROGRAM,
MINIMUM WAGE INCREASE OF ABOUT
23%, EXPAND THE EARNED INCOME
TAX CREDIT VARIOUS WAYS AND HELP
SENIORS AND PEOPLE WITH
DISABILITIES, THAT YOU CAN CUT
THE RATE OF POVERTY BY ABOUT
58%.
SO AS PART OF THAT STUDY, WHICH
WE RELEASED A WHILE AGO, WE GOT%
SOME VERY SPECIFIC DATA FROM THE
URBAN INSTITUTE ABOUT RAISING
THE MINIMUM WAGE, 23%.
FROM WHAT IS WAS $6.50 IN
WISCONSIN TO $8 AN HOUR.
AND TO TURN THE CONVERSATION A
BIT FROM BELIEFS TO DATA, TO
FACTS, HERE'S WHAT THE URBAN
INSTITUTE SAID.
THEY SAID THAT BASED ON ALL THE
STUDIES THAT THEY'VE LOOKED AT,
THIS IS A VERY INDEPENDENT
GROUP, THEY HAVE NO PARTICULAR
OUTCOME THAT THEY INTENDED TO
GET TO, THEY SAID THAT A 23%
INCREASE TYPICALLY
CONSERVATIVELY RESULTS IN A JOB
LOSS OF 1.4%, SO BIG INCREASE IN
DISPOSABLE INCOME FOR THE
WORKERS AND PRESUMABLY FOR THOSE
THAT BENEFIT FROM THE SPILLOVER
EFFECT THAT THE PROFESSOR SPOKE
ABOUT, BUT SOME JOBS ARE LOST,
SO MY QUESTION IS TWOFOLD.
THE FIRST PART IS, DO ANY OF YOU
HAVE ANY DATA, ACTUAL DATA■ç THT
SHOW FOR WISCONSIN, WHAT WOULD
BE THE IMPACT OF GOING FROM
$7.25, WHICH IS OUR CURRENT
MINIMUM WAGE, TO $9 AN HOUR?
THE IMPLICATION OF THIS IS IF WE
DID THAT, THAT'S ABOUT ANOTHER
23% INCREASE.
IT WOULD MEAN AN AWFUL LOT OF
PEOPLE GETTING A LOT MORE MONEY,
BUT ONLY 1.4% REDUCTION IN JOBS.
THE SECOND PART OF THE QUESTION
IS, CLEARLY, THIS IS A TRADEOFF.
IF WE RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE,
SOME JOBS WILL BE LOST, BUT
THERE'S A BIG BENEFIT, WORKERS
MAKE MORE MONEY, SOCIAL SECURITY
BENEFITS ULTIMATELY GO UP,
CERTAINLY PEOPLE THAT ARE IN
PIGS THAT GET THE MONEY FROM --
IN BUSINESS THAT GET THE MONEY
FROM THOSE WORKERS CREATE MORE
JOBS, SO THE -- I GUESS MY
QUESTION IS, AT WHAT POINT DOES
IT NOT MAKE SENSE TO RAISE THE
MINIMUM WAGE?
AT WHAT POINT DO THE BENEFITS
FAR EXCEED THE COSTS?
STEVE, SOMEONE SAID TO YOU, JUST
TO FINISH■THE QUESTION, IF YOU
GOT A 23% INCREASE IN YOUR
VALERY, BUT A 1.4% CHANCE OF
LOSING YOUR JOB, YOU GOT 23%
MORE IN YOUR SALARY, BUT 1.4%
CHANCE OF LOSING YOUR JOB, WOULD
YOU PLEASE TAKE THAT BET?
>> STEVE'S JOB IS SECURE.
>> AS LONG AS DANA IS AROUND, MY
JOB IS SECURE, BECAUSE WE ALWAYS
HAVE A WORTHY ADVERSARY FOR
THINGS.
BUT I THINK IT'S A GREAT POINT,
DAVID, AROUND THIS IS THE
PROBLEM WITH PLAYING RUSSIAN
ROULETTE WHEN YOU GET TO POINT
THE GUN AT SOMEBODY ELSE'S HEAD
AND WITH THOSE STATISTICS, IF
YOU'RE THAT 1%, THE UNEMPLOYMENT
RATE FOR YOU IS 100%.
AND I MEAN, THIS IS -- THIS IS
ONE OF THE POINTS THAT I HOPE IS
COMING THROUGH, AND PERHAPS IT'S
NOT.
I MEAN, I JOKED WITH MARCUS,
WHEN I WAS INVITED TO BE ON THE
PANEL, I SAID SO YOU WANT THE
TROLL UNDER THE BRIDGE TO TALK
AGAINST■ç THE MINIMUM WAGE, AND
YOU KNOW, BE THE WHITE GUY
BEATING UP ON POOR PEOPLE.
AND WE JOKED ABOUT THAT.
BUT I MEAN, I WANT TO -- I WANT
TO POINT -- THE BUSINESS
COMMUNITY IS NOT ANTI-MINIMUM
WAGE.
THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY OPERATES
WITH WHATEVER CONDITIONS THEY
FACE AND THEY ARE INCREDIBLY
NIMBLE IN TERMS OF ADAPTING TO
THOSE CONDITIONS.
WHAT WE OUGHT TO DO IN THIS
DEBATE IS WE OUGHT TO GO IN WITH
YOUR EYES OPEN, THAT THERE ARE
RAMIFICATIONS, POSITIVE AND
NEGATIVE TO THIS, AND WE BETTER
BE WILLING TO LIVE WITH THE
RAMIFICATIONS WITH THAT, AND THE
IMPACTS ON BUSINESSES.
AND IF THOSE BUSINESSES, IF YOU
DO LOSE A JOB, YOU KNOW, THAT'S
THE QUESTION, ARE YOU WILLING TO
TAKE THAT ADVANCE.
IT'S LIKE AT EASTER, EVERYBODY
GETS BUNNIES AND ALL OF A SUDDEN
THEY REALIZE THEY HAVE TO HANDLE
A FULL GROWN RABBIT.
THIS IS THE BUNNY PART OF THE
YEAH, LET'S GET MORE
MONEY FOR EVERYBODY.
THE FULL GROWN RABBIT AND HOW TO
TAKE CARE OF THAT LONG TERM IS
OK, BUT SOMEBODY MIGHT LOSE
THEIR I DON'T -- MIGHT LOSE THEB
AND HOW DO WE BALANCE IT OFF.
FROM A BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE, YOU
HAVE TO GO INTO A BUSINESS
DISCUSSION LIKE THIS WITH YOUR
EYES WIDE OPEN, OF ALL THE
IMPACTS, NOT JUST THE IMPACTS
YOU CHOOSE.
>> DANA, IS THAT A RISK YOUR
MEMBERSHIP WOULD TAKE?
>> IF WE DON'T TAKE IT, WE WILL
HAVE MORE AND MORE PEOPLE GO
INTO EXTREME POVERTY.
>> THE GREATER MILWAUKEE
FOUNDATION RELEASED AN ARTICLE
TALKING ABOUT BE INCOME
INEQUALITY IN MILWAUKEE HAS HUGE
SPILLOVER ON INFANT MORTALITY
AND TEEN BIRTH RATES AND CRIME,
AND POOR EDUCATION RESULTS.
WE HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO
ASK OURSELVES WHAT KIND OF CITY
DO WE WANT, WHAT KIND OF COUNTRY
DO WE WANT?
IT'S NOT JUST THE RIGHT THING TO
DO FOR A WOMAN, YOU KNOW,
WORKING AT,■ç YOU KNOW, COLONEL
SANDERS.
IT'S A BETTER WAY TO RUN A
COUNTRY, AND IT'S A BETTER WAY
TO RUN A BUSINESS, MAKING SURE
THAT -- EVERYONE CAN AGREE THAT
SOMEONE WHO WORKS HARD DESERVES
ENOUGH TO PAY FOR THE BASICS,
FOOD, RENT, UTILITIES, AND THAT
IF WE DON'T DO THAT, OUR WHOLE
ECONOMY WILL STALL.
>> THANK YOU.
WE HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION.
>> GOOD AFTERNOON PANEL, MY NAME
IS ADRIAN SPENCER, AND I'M WITH
RIVER WORKS CORPORATION, I'M A
VOLUNTEER THROUGH AMERICORP.
MY QUESTION IS ALTHOUGH
COMPANIES DO HAVE TO REMAIN
COMPETITIVE, HOW DO WE GO ABOUT
RAISING A MINIMUM WAGE TO
SOMETHING LIKE $15 AN HOUR, SO
THAT IN THE TIME THAT THEY'RE --
IN A TIME WHERE THEY'RE CUTTING
THE BENEFITS FOR OUR PEOPLE AND
THEY ARE NOT HIRING AS MANY
FULL-TIME WORKERS AS THEY USED
TO, NOW, $15,000 A YEAR IS NOT
EVEN THE POVERTY LEVEL.
SO WHY WOuL THAT NOT BE A GOOD
THING FOR BUSINESSES TO DO SINCE
THEY'RE CUTTING THE AMOUNT OF
FULL-TIME WORKERS AND CUTTING
THE AMOUNT OF BENEFITS THEY'RE
PROVIDING?
>> WELL, PAUL, LET ME ASK YOU
WHAT YOUR ANALYST HAD ONç> WHAT I THINK IS REALLY
IMPORTANT, STEVE SAID, EVERYONE,
WE MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT OUR
ECONOMY.
WE MAKE THE DECISIONS, I MEAN,
WE MADE THE DECISION ABOUT
MINIMUM WAGE AND ABOUT, YOU
KNOW, EVERY KIND OF STANDARD
THAT WE HAVE, WE MAKE THESE
DECISIONS AND IF WE DON'T SHAPE
OUR ECONOMIC MODEL, WE PAY FOR
IT ON THE OTHER END.
>> STEVE, WHAT DO YOU THINK
ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE MIDDLE
CLASS IN AMERICA?
WE HEAR ABOUT THIS CONCENTRATION
OF WEALTH, ABOUT A GROWING■ç LOR
INCOME.
WHAT ARE THE PROSPECTS FOR A
QUALITY OF LIFE FOR A MIDDLE
CLASS LIKE WE HAVE ENJOYED FOR
THE PAST TWO GENERATIONS?
>> WELL, I MEAN, THE WAY THERE
IS GROWING THE PIE, NOT THROUGH
GOVERNMENT MANDATING WHAT THE
SIZE OF THE SLICES HAVE TO BE.
AND IT'S NOT THROUGH WEALTH
REDISTRIBUTION AND I'M GLAD, I
AM SO GLAD THAT YOU WERE CANDID
ABOUT WHAT THE GOAL IS HERE FOR
YOU, IS WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> WHEN YOU FOUND AN ECONOMY ON
WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION, IT HAS
RIPPLE EFFECTS TOO, ON WHO'S
WILLING TO TAKE RISKS, WHAT KIND
OF RISKS THEY'RE WILLING TO
TAKE, WHAT KIND OF
ENTREPRENEURIAL CLIMATE YOU
MAKE.
I DON'T THINK YOU GROW A MIDDLE
CLASS, I DON'T THINK YOU GROW AN
ECONOMY BY STIFLING THE UPSIDE
POTENTIAL OF THE ENTREPRENEURIAL
CLASS.
MOLES OF THESE BUSINESS STARTUPS
THAT YOU TALK ABOUT WHO ARE
GENERATING THE NET GROWTH IN OUç
ECONOMY, MOST SMALL BUSINESS
OWNERS FAIL MULTIPLE TIMES
BEFORE THEY SUCCEED.
WHEN WE REDUCE THE POTENTIAL OF
UPSIDE WITHIN A MARKET ECONOMY
FOR THAT ENTREPRENEURIAL CLASS,
WE ARE REDUCING OR THREATENING
TO REDUCE ENTREPRENEURIAL
ACTIVITY.
THAT'S NOT GOOD FOR THE UPPER
CLASS, THAT'S NOT GOOD FOR THE
LOWER CLASS, THAT'S NOT GOOD FOR
THE MIDDLE CLASS.
THAT'S NOT GOOD FOR ANYBODY.
>> THANK YOU.
WE HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION.
>> MY NAME IS DIANA AND I KNOW
LIKE MR. RIEMER SAYS, FACTS AND
FIGURES ARE IMPORTANT, BUT÷
REALLY WHAT MOVES US ARE PEOPLE
OR ISSUES OF THE HEART AND I
WANT TO BRING YOU BACK TO A
QUESTION OF MORALITY, BECAUSE IT
IS A QUESTION OF MORALITY AND
THE AMERICAN DREAM, WHICH I FEEL
AND IT MAY SHOW THAT I'M NAIVE,
BUT AS YOU AS AN INDIVIDUAL AND
ADULT IN THIS WORLD ARE WORKING
FULL TIME, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO
SUPPORT YOURSELF AND HAVE A
LIVEABLE WAGE.
THAT TO ME IS A PROMISE OF
AMERICA AND THAT IS NOT HERE
TODAY, SO -- AND WHAT I
UNDERSTAND IS THAT WE AS
TAXPAYERS ARE SUBSIDIZING THE
WAL-MARTS AND THE■ç KFC'S AND TE
McDONALD'S, BECAUSE THESE
FOLKS HAVE TO GO GET THEIR FOOD
FROM THE FOOD PANTRY OR HAVE TO
GET THEIR HEALTH CARE AT THE
EMERGENCY ROOM.
CORPORATE WELFARE OR WHATEVER,
WE'RE SUBSIDIZING BIG BUSINESS.
I HEARD IN SWITZERLAND, IF THE
CITIZENS THERE CAN GET 100,000
SIGNATURES ON A REFERENDUM IDEA
THEY CAN PUT IT FORWARD AND THE
RECENT IDEA THAT THEY PROPOSED
THAT PASSED WAS A LAW THAT SAYS
THE C.E.O. CAN'T BE A RATIO MORE
THAN 11 TIMES THE FRONT END
WORKER.
AND I'M THINKING, WOW, TO ME,
THAT'S A MORAL QUESTION, AND --
SO TALK TO ME.
COULD WE IN AMERICA ENTERTAIN
THAT INSTEAD OF CALLING IT
WEALTH DISTRIBUTION, SCARING THE
RICH PEOPLE TO DEATH, COULD WE
TALK ABOUT THE MORALITY OF
LIVING HERE IN AMERICA AND IF
YOU'RE WILLING TO WORK HARD, YOU
CAN SUPPORT YOUR HE -- YOURSELF?
>> BUT IT IS ALL ABOUT CATCH
PHRASES.
WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT
PREFORMING OUR HEALTH CARE
SYSTEM, THEY CALLED IT
SOCIALIZED MEDICINE.
WE WQEE BECOMING A SOCIALIZED
STATE BECAUSE WE WANTED TO SET
UP A PRIVATE MARKETPLACE FOR
PEOPLE TO SHOP FOR INSURANCE AND
WE HAD TO GET RID OF THE PUBLIC
OPTION BECAUSE THAT WAS TOO MUCH
LIKE SOCIALISM.
IT'S ALL ABOUT BRANDING IN THIS
COUNTRY, AND SO WHAT YOU'VE JUST
TALKED ABOUT IN SWITZERLAND
MAKES A LOT OF SENSE, AND PEOPLE
OF GOODWILL, PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE
THAT THE RICH ARE TOO RICH, AND
THE ENTREPRENEURS CAN STILL
SUCCEED WITHOUT MAKING
$100 MILLION, WOULD AGREE, I
WOULD THINK, WITH THAT TYPE OF
PROGRAM.
THE PROBLEM IS, IS OUR POLITICAL
SYSTEM IS BROKEN, RIGHT?
OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM IS FLOODED
WITH MONEY, POST-CITIZENS
UNITED.
WE DON'T ALL HAVE EQUAL VOICE IN
OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM BECAUSE WE
DON'T HAVE EQUAL MONEY AND
ACCORDING TO THE SUPREME COURT,
EVERY DOLLAR YOU HAVE MAKES IT
THAT YOU HAVE MORE VOICE IN THE
POLITICAL SYSTEM, SO WE ARE IN A
VERY DIFFICULT PERIOD OF TIME
FOR THOSE TYPES OF INITIATIVES
THAT YOU'VE JUST DISCUSSED, AS
FAR AS EVERY DAY PEOPLE KIND■ç F
BANDING TOGETHER.
I WILL GIVE 9 TO 5 AND SOME OF
THE OTHER ORGANIZATIONS A LOT OF
CREDIT FOR TRYING TO GET
INDIVIDUALS WITH COMMON PROBLEMS
TOGETHER TO SPEAK TO THESE TYPES
OF POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS, BUT I AM
A SKEPTIC, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK
STRUCTURALLY OUR COUNTRY IS SET
UP CURRENTLY TO ALLOW THOSE
TYPES OF INITIATIVES TO SUCCEED.
>> WELL, WITHOUT GETTING TOO FAR
INTO THE DETAILS, KEEPING IN
MIND THE SWISS MODEL OF
GOVERNANCE BY REFERENDUM, WHICH
I THINK IS THE SWISS MODEL,
DANA, YOUR ORGANIZATION LED AN
EFFORT TO REQUIRE EMPLOYERS TO
PROVIDE PAID SICK DAYS.
STEVE'S ORGANIZATION PLAYED A
ROLE IN ENSURING THAT THAT
WASN'T IMPLEMENTED.
THE GOVERNOR AND THE LEGISLATURE
IN THE END PREEMPTED AND SAID
LOCAL GROUPS CAN'T DO IT.
>> WE PASSED IT BY 70% AND THEN
THEY PREEMPTED IT.
>> MY QUESTION IS, SO DO YOU
THINK, TO PAUL'S POINT THAT THE
ENVIRONMENT IS SUCH THAT IT'S
EVEN WORTH BOTHERING WITH SUCH
4-úú>> A REFERENDUM IS A TACTIC.
IF WE DON'T COLLECTIVELY HAVE
THE STRATEGY AND HAVE THE
INTENTIONS OF HOW DO WE
STRENGTHEN FAMILY, GET MORE
PEOPLE INTO THE MIDDLE CLASS.
YOU CAN HAVE ANY ACT PARTICULAR
YOU WANT, BUT IF WE'RE NOT
FOCUSED ON THAT GOAL, WE'RE NOT
GOING TO SEE THE AMERICAN DREAM
AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO LIVE UP
TO THE PRINCIPAL OF FREEDOM AND
JUSTICE FOR ALL.
THAT IS WRITTEN INTO OUR
CONSTITUTION, SO YEAH, WE'RE IN
A TOUGH SPOT, BUT WE ALSO HAVE
THE OPPORTUNITY TO COME TOGETHER
WITH BUSINESSES WHO DO AGREE
THAT WE NEED A HIGHER MINIMUM
WAGE AND BELIEVE WE NEED A FLOOR
OF STANDARDS AND DO UNDERSTAND
THAT HEALTH CARE IS PART OF THE
EQUATION, SO I ACTUALLY THINK
THAT WISCONSIN, THE UNITED
STATES NEEDS SOME COMING
TOGETHER AND SOME HEALING AROUND
HOW CAN WE ACTUALLY ALL BE ON
THE SAME QUEST TO SECURE A
STRONGER MIDDLE CLASS.
>> LET ME, JUST BECAUSE OUR
LAWSUIT AND OUR EFFORT ON THE
PAID SICK LEAVE MANDATE CAME UP,
I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY WHAT WAS
EVENTUALLY SUPPORTED■ç BY US AND
PASSED IN MADISON.
IT WAS NOT BANNING SICK LEAVE.
WHAT IT WAS, IT'S A LAW THAT
SAID THIS IS A STATEWIDE CONCERN
AND WE SHOULD HAVE A CONSISTENT
STATE STANDARD STATEWIDE, WHICH
WAS SOMETHING MMAC SUPPORTED,
THE PROBLEM WE HAD WITH THE
MANDATE THAT DANA DID A GREAT
JOB OF GETTING FORWARDED HERE
LOCALLY, IT WAS CREATING A
POCKET, A HIGH COST POCKET OF
COSTS IN THE MILWAUKEE AREA THAT
PLACED US, WE BELIEVED, AT
COMPETITIVE DISADVANTAGE AND SO
WE WORKED FOR LEGISLATION AT THE
STATE LEVEL TO CREATE A UNIFORM
STANDARD THAT COULD BE APPLIED
ACROSS MARKETS RATHER THAN HAVE
A PATCH WORK OF DIFFERENT COSTS
FROM MUNICIPALITY TO
MUNICIPALITY.
>> STEVE, ARE YOU SAYING THAT
YOU WOULD WORK WITH 9 TO 5 TO
HELP CREATE A STATE STANDARD FOR
PAID SICK DAYS, BECAUSE I WOULD
LOVE THAT AND I FEEL LIKE YOU
HAVE A LITTLE MORE IN WITH THE
CURRENT ADMINISTRATION?
>> WE HAVE, I HAVE GOOD NEWS FOç
YOU.
WE HAVE A STATE STANDARD FOR
PAID SICK LEAVE RIGHT NOW.
>> IT'S ZERO.
>> ALL RIGHT.
WE'RE GOING TO TAKE ANOTHER
QUESTION.
SIR?
>> HI, MY NAME IS DAVE, I'M FROM
MILWAUKEE.
I WENT TO THE RALLY THAT THEY
HAD ON NORTH AVENUE FOR LOW PAY
IS NOT OK.COM, AND THERE WAS A
SIGN THERE THAT SAID THAT THE
C.E.O. OF McDONALD'S WAS
EARNING $8 MILLION, BUT THAT'S
THE CASH, NOT THE TOTAL, LIKE
THE STOCK OPTIONS, THE
$35 MILLION JET THEY JUST
BOUGHT, ALL THAT, AND I -- I
DIVIDED THAT BY 365 AND IT CAME
OUT TO $24,000 A DAY THAT HE
MAKES.
IF HE'S MAKING ONLY $8 MILLION.
AND I THOUGHT, WOW, $24 MILLION.
MY WHOLE FAMILY WOULD DO GREAT
ON 24 -- OR $24,000 I SHOULD
SAY, $24,000 A DAY AND THEN I
ALSO HAVE BEEN READING A BOOK BY
RYAN WHO IS AT THE AMERICAN
UNIVERSITY AND HE --■ç IT BEARS
THE SIGNATURE OF THE BISHOP OF
NEW YORK, INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH
AND IT'S CALL DISTRIBUTIVE
JUSTICE AND HE TALKS ABOUT
ALMOST EVERY SINGLE THING THAT
DAVID RIEMER TALKS ABOUT.
IT WAS WRITTEN IN 1927, THE
PERCENTAGES ARE ALMOST THE SAME.
FUNNY HOW HUMAN BEINGS DON'T
CHANGE MUCH.
I SHOULD ASK A QUESTION.
IF WE DIDN'T HAVE PEOPLE ON THE
OTHER SIDE, YOU KNOW, WE
REALLY --
>> IT WOULD BE A BORING PANEL.
>> THAT'S CERTAINLY WHAT WE WANT
TO DO HERE AT THE "FOURTH STREET
FORUM," IS HEAR VARIOUS POINTS
OF VIEW, BUT YOU KNOW, AGAIN,
NOT FOCUSING ON EXECUTIVE PAY,
BUT --
>> GOD FORBID.
>> WELL, THE QUESTION IS,
WHETHER THERE OUGHT TO BE A
STANDARD AT THE FLOOR, RIGHT,
AND STEVE, I THINK I'VE HEARD
YOU SAY THAT IF IT'S UNIFORM, IF
IT DOESN'T INHIBIT COMPETITION
FOR PARTICULARLY BUSINESSES IN
OUR REGION, THAT YOU'RE NOT
PHILOSOPHICALLY OPPOSED TO THERE
TR(áH&ONG AS5
THERE'S EQUAL TREATMENT.
>> AGAIN.
I THINK THAT THE KEY ON THIS
ISSUE IS WE HAVE TO GO IN WITH
OUR EYES WIDE OPEN, AND WE HAVE
TO UNDERSTAND THE IMPACTS
COMPETITIVELY AND ECONOMICALLY
AS WE -- AS IT RIPPLES THROUGH
THE ECONOMY LOCALLY AND
NATIONALLY AND INTERNATIONALLY.
WE DON'T OPERATE IN A VACUUM ON
THIS THING, AND AGAIN, NOBODY
UNDERSTANDS BETTER THAN
EMPLOYERS THE VALUE OF WORKERS,
AND YOU JUST HAVE TO AVOID THE
ISLANDS OF HIGH COST THAT MAKE
IT HARDER FOR THEM TO SUCCEED
AND CREATE JOBS AS WELL.
>> DANA, I JUST WANTED TO ASK
DANA BRIEFLY TOO ABOUT THAT
STANDARD AND I KNOW $15 AN HOUR
IS OUT THERE AND SOME OF THE
CURRENT MOVEMENT, IS THAT WHAT
YOU ALL ARE INSISTING ON?
>> YOU KNOW, WHAT WE'RE
INSISTING ON IS TAKING A LOOK
WITH OUR EYES WIDE OPEN OF WHAT
IT COSTS TO LIVE, IF SOMEONE
WORKS REALLY HARD, WHAT ARE THE
BASICS.
LET'S COVER THOSE AND MAKE SURE
HARD WORKING FAMILIES DON'T■ç HE
TO RELY ON PUBLIC ASSISTANCE TO
STRENGTHEN THEIR FAMILY.
LET'S LOOK AT THAT NUMBER AND WE
CAN STOP THE DEBATE A LITTLE BIT
IF WE INDEX IT EVERY YEAR FOR
INFLATION.
SOME STATES ARE ALREADY DOING
THAT.
I THINK WE NEED A FEDERAL
STANDARD THAT GOES UP WITH THE
COST OF LIVING EVERY YEAR, SO
THAT IT'S FAIR.
>> GREAT.
>> AND VERY QUICKLY, SINCE 1968,
RIGHT, THAT WAS THE HIGHEST TIME
WE HAD REAL MINIMUM WAGE
DOLLARS.
WE ARE AT A POINT NOW, WHERE WE
ARE AT ONE OF THE LOWEST RATES
OF MINIMUM WAGE COMPARED TO THE
AVERAGE --
>> VALUE IS ABOUT $19.50.
>> WE'RE ABOUT 36% OF THE
AVERAGE WAGE RATE IS WHAT THE
MINIMUM WAGE RATE IS RIGHT NOW.
>> WE'RE GOING TO GAP UP HERE.
STEVE, WE'RE GOING TO START WITH
YOU, JUST VERY BRIEFLY, AND WORK
OUR WAY BACK AROUND HERE, JUST A
FINAL THOUGHT ON IN TERMS OF
THIS ISSUE ABOUT THE MINIMUM
WAGE, WHERE DO YOU THINK THIS IS
GOING IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF
YEARS?
>> I'M GOING TO STIPULATE THAT
DANA AND OTHER PEOPLE HAVE■ç
BETTER SOUND BITES ON THIS
THING, AND BETTER ANECDOTES, BUT
YOU CAN'T -- YOU CAN'T FEED YOUR
FAMILY WITH A SOUND BITE AND AS
THIS ISSUE MOVES FORWARD, I
THINK WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO
HAVE THIS DISCUSSION AND I THINK
IT'S A GREAT DISCUSSION TO HAVE
AS A COMMUNITY AND AS A SOCIETY,
BUT AGAIN, WE NEED TO LOOK AT IT
WITH OUR EYES WIDE OPEN AT ALL
THE RAMIFICATIONS.
I THINK WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE
TO HAVE IT, IT'S GOING TO BE
VIGOROUS, I HOPE IT INVOLVES
EVERYBODY.
>> IF YOU WANT TO GET INVOLVED
IN THE HUGE EFFORTS TO RAISE THE
MINIMUM WAGE, RAISE THE LIVING
WAGE, LOCALLY, NATIONALLY, GO TO
RAISE THE WAGE.ORG, GO TO 9 TO 5
WEB SITE.
I MEAN, IT'S GOT TO BE DONE TO
STRENGTHEN OUR ECONOMY.
>> PAUL, WHERE DO YOU THINK THIS
IS GOING IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF
YEARS?
>> IT'S GOING TO CONTINUE TO
RAGE ON.
THE FIGHT IS GOING TO CONTINUE.
PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THAT
EMPLOYEES SHOULD MAKE A HIGHER
MINIMUM WAGE AND HAVE A DECENT
AND DIGNIFIED LIFE ARE GOING TO
CONTINUE TO FIGHT THE GOOD
FIGHT.
>> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK ALL OF
YOU, PRIMARILY■ç FOR ENSURING TT
I DON'T HAVE TO TAKE A RUN
TONIGHT BECAUSE I'VE NOT HAD MY
WORKOUT FOR THE DAY.
BUT WE WANT TO THANK YOU FOR A
GREAT DISCUSSION, TERRIFIC.
THANK YOU.
[APPLAUSE]
>> VERY GOOD.
NEXT WEEK ON "FOURTH STREET
FORUM", THE REGION'S BUSINESSES
NEED WORKERS, BUT CAN WORKERS
FIND AFFORDABLE HOUSING?
BUSINESSES THROUGHOUT THE REGION
NEED WORKERS, INCLUDING THOSE
WHO DO EARN LOWER WAGES, AND
WORKERS CAN SPEND A BIG
PERCENTAGE OF THEIR INCOME ON
HOUSING.
CAN OUR REGION ENJOY TRUE
ECONOMIC SUCCESS IF WE DON'T
ADDRESS ACCESS TO AFFORDABLE
HOUSING THROUGHOUT THE REGION?
FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE
SHOWS, TO SIGN UP FOR WEEKLY
EMAIL NOTIFICATIONS FROM "FOURTH
STREET FORUM, OR" TO WATCH ANY
OF OUR PROGRAMS ON LINE, GO TO
THE "FOURTH STREET FORUM" PAGE
AT WWW.MPTV.ORG.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING THIS
CONVERSATION, THANK YOU FOR
BEING PART OF THE FORUM.
LET'S KEEP■ç TALKING.
[APPLAUSE]