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Fran Wescott: Gentlemen, Welcome. Thank you for being here today. We very much appreciate
it. Now, we're talking, as you know, about business and education. And What we would
like to do with this time is to hear your thoughts on the number of issues that are
going to be central to the conversations that we're going to have during the course of this
NC Works series. So First, I would like us to take a broad
view of the issue. Now, as the state rebuilds its economy, it's likely that our business
community is going to change in some ways, so at the same time, we have to consider the
possibility of redefining public education to better serve the needs of this new business
environment. So the question is, what kinds of changes do you think that we need to see
in public education to meet the needs of this new North Carolina business climate? And then
we can look down the road a little farther after we address that and maybe look at what
public education or K 20 system in total really needs to be successful and relevant in this
21st century. So let's look at the first part first. The Business climate is changing. How
does business education need to change to meet the needs of the business community?
>> Senator Basnight: I believe you need to prepare the workforce to be in a position
to go to work. Now, how do we do that? We certainly get all that we can out of the student
within what he or she has. Certainly, today, technologies, engineering, medicine, math,
science, these are available jobs that we can see, and we know we need. Small business,
people in general, need good workers who are highly trained to do whatever is commanded
at that time, depending on what they make, what they provide. In the public schools we
have to see that kids that are not ready for college are prepared to go in the vast field
of work in technical training that they may need, whatever that field may be. Those who
are prepared to go into engineering or medicine or the sciences and math, we need to make
certain that those programs are available in the community colleges and the universities.
So the whole session will be pointed to the generation of jobs to a large extent, so we
can drive down the unemployment numbers that we have. So it's about education in all three
areas; the community, the university and public and private schools, so there's jobs and more
jobs.
>> Fran Wescott: Do you agree, Speaker Hackney?
>> Representative Hackney: I do. The recession that we're in currently has accelerated the
transformation of our economy. I think most folks agree. We continue to lose manufacturing
jobs, although we have a lot of manufacturing still in this state.
But in all sectors of our economy, increased training, education is important. And I think
it's important to the future of North Carolina's economy that we provide that increased level
of training. Our economy is moving toward biotech, pharmaceuticals, finance, high tech
computer skills, research, medicine, all those things require a high level of education.
North Carolina, in the midst of the recession even, has been relatively successful in recruiting
and adding jobs in many of those areas, certainly not in finance, but many of the other areas
we have been able to do that. One part of this that we must not lose sight of is that
our graduation rate from high school is not where it should be in North Carolina, or in
most other states as well. If we are to succeed as an economy, we need to use all the talent
that we have and get all the talent that we have educated. We need more resources on dropout
prevention, more resources on making sure our kids graduate because they need to go
on to community college, technical college, university to participate fully in the economy
that we're preparing for. Our whole on both sides, house and Senate,
our whole emphasis in this recession is to bring North Carolina through the recession
in a way with our core educational function strong so that we can be better prepared than
other states, other nations to take advantage of the opportunities of the new economy. I
think in a large part we're doing that. Certainly that preparing for those jobs in the future
will be a focus of this short session as well.
>> Fran Wescott: Okay. And you brought up one of the greatest challenges that you see
to that successful education environment, and that is the graduation rate and preventing
dropout. Let's talk about that for a few moments. That's one major challenge. Do you agree that's
a major challenge, and can you gentlemen share with us some of the others you would like
to see addressed in this session and any moving forward beyond the session?
>> Senator Basnight: A third of our children that enter high school will never graduate
in North Carolina, so that is obviously a serious problem that we have. If you do not
build the economy back stronger than what we see, those numbers will only increase and
not having at home the revenues necessary to raise your children make it much more difficult.
So someone else has to step in and help. Yes, we need to change that.
Joe has worked for some years now to make certain revenues are available to design and
find ways to keep children interested in public education.
>> Representative Hackney: These efforts are ongoing. We have in place a system of dropout
prevention grants across North Carolina where local communities propose what they're going
to do, and we give them a little bit of state funding to follow through with it. But at
the end of the day, the teachers, the principals, the folks in the schools need to find a way,
perhaps with these additional resources that we talked about to interest the kids in something,
whether it's baseball or electronics or rocks or birds, whatever it is, to find that nugget
of interest that keeps them in school. Because as Senator Basnight described well without
staying in school and opportunity then to advance, those people they can't provide for
their families as well, they perhaps can't provide health insurance for themselves and
they are they become some of our most vulnerable citizens.
We can avoid that. We need to put an emphasis there, an additional emphasis to make sure
the graduation rate goes up. There are school districts in this state where the graduation
rate has gone up fairly dramatically, so we know-- we're learning some of the things that
work and we need to replicate those across the state.
>> Fran Wescott: And some folks and you mentioned just now that it's important on a societal
level to address the dropout rate, that it's not just a matter of an individual choice.
Let's back up and talk about that for a moment in a little greater depth because some folks
watching might think to themselves, well it's not my problem if somebody isn't motivated
enough to do what they need to do and stay in school. And maybe you can help us understand
how this is a public policy issue, an issue important to the entirety of the community,
expand on that a little.
>> Senator Basnight: well, It would be to all of our benefit to have everyone productive
and doing well, but with broken families as we have, it cannot be just the state of North
Carolina repairing the difficulties we have. It has to be the church, the community, the
town, the village, everyone would have to participate. With no family, in many cases
with children, and that's what they are, they have no chance.
If you come to school and expect the teacher and the teacher only to raise that child,
that will not occur. The community will have to be more deeply involved.
>> Representative Hackney: The dropout rate, the graduation rate It's related to crime,
its related to economic advancement, the dropout rate, it's related to the next generation
of education because we all know that folks who graduate from high school have a greater
and go on to some further education, have a greater ability to raise kids better educated
and help them along. It's related to our medical safety net, so it's so important for our future
economy and it it does require our attention.
>> Fran Wescott: Okay.
>> Senator Basnight: We just do not do the kind of job we need to do to be able to compete
in the international economy that has changed so dramatically. Our kids have to be able
to do much more than they've done in the past. In America our schools are not what they should
be in the high school area. And elementary where you start, our competition is mainly
China, India and the European communities. We have to make certain we strengthen our
universities in the fields of engineering, medicine, technologies, accounting is critical,
and Joe mentioned financial training. If we where we have the advantage in this world
economy is our universities and our training in our community colleges. We have got to
make certain this year and next year in the future allows for expansion in those fields
where we can create the kind of innovation that will create jobs that the world community
needs. We've got to do better at the university level than we're presently doing.
>> Representative Hackney: There are parts of our state where I was recently in a poor,
rural county of North Carolina where the graduation rate had gone up by about 10 percent. Just
working at it, and really, adding community resources to school resources. There are ways
to reach these kids, and we really need to make sure that those efforts are being made.
>> Fran Wescott: Just a moment ago, too, you were talking about how within the high schools
in particular and then some programs in the university system need to be strengthened
to better compete internationally. There are some schools that are having success in boosting
graduation rates, so presumably they're making some changes to reach that kind of success.
What kinds of changes do you think we're talking about, and are they changes that will be replicable
in a variety of North Carolina communities, or are we looking for very specific community
driven changes or maybe a little bit of both? Help us understand what you would love to
see that look like.
>> Senator Basnight: Well, Math and science, you have the vacancies now in America and
North Carolina, we have to recruit engineers and scientists from other areas of the world
because we do not produce enough. So you have to build the buildings or the faculty, and
not a normal faculty. You have to secure the best in the world if you want to be the best.
You've got to teach and train those people who have the capacity to do so, so hopefully
they start a business. It's about jobs. If you train people who are incompetent when
they graduate to do certain jobs, if you only have worker bees who are not highly trained,
you will not have the kind of companies and businesses that you want. You've got to have
many of those high paying jobs that are the nucleus of growth and good growth in any community
anywhere. You've got to do a lot more in the sciences.
>> Fran Wescott: Okay.
>> Representative Hackney: One of the things that North Carolina has done right over the
years, is that we have provided in North Carolina an opportunity for any child who wants to
go at reasonable cost on past high school to further their education, we have a great
system of community colleges all throughout the state close by every student. We have
a great public university system. We need to protect it. It's in danger in this recession
of some damage because of the lack of money that we're experiencing right now, but it's
been a place where our children in North Carolina can go and advance as far as they want to
go. We have private universities in the state which are abundant and available as well.
So those resources are available and in most cases, at pretty reasonable costs. We're a
low tuition state, and so our children have been able to go to college at very low cost
compared to other states. That's an advantage that North Carolina has. We don't want to
lose that. Back to graduation rate, if we can get more
kids into that system, into the community colleges, into the universities to prepare
and train for those jobs that Senator Basnight talks about, we will continue to prosper as
a state and as an economy.
>> Senator Basnight: But it does cost money to pay for the student when he enters the
community college or the university. If he elects to go to the public school, our reimbursement
rate or charge that we accept in North Carolina is larger than anyone I'm aware of in this
country, much less the side fees. So we have to have the resources for each and every new
student who we want, but we're in a catch 22. You have to educate, but where do you
find the money to subsidize that child? If you go to UNC Chapel Hill, it may cost $6,000
tuition and fees, but you pay probably about 12,000 more that the taxpayers will pick up
for that stay with that student. Now, it goes down gradually with the other schools, but
not by much. If you went to Virginia, UVA, it would be 15,000 versus 6,000 engineering
at UNC Charlotte would be about 4,000; undergraduate at Clemson about 14,000. We are paying huge
sums of money to make certain these students do get a quality education, but we have been
taking resources away from the schools in alarming numbers. So somehow, I believe, to
build that economy, to build that future, to compete with the world, you're going to
have to reverse this negative flow and build back those resources in the universities and
community colleges. You cannot continue on the track that we're on if we're going to
provide for a very competitive education.
>> Representative Hackney: Recently, Fran, I had a CEO in my office in Raleigh, a big
company, I think five years ago they had no employees in North Carolina, now they have
several thousand. And I said to him, why North Carolina? Why did you come to North Carolina?
He said, for a talented and educated workforce. That's the reason they come; that's the reason
those several thousand jobs exist. And we're talking today about the convergence between
business and education. One of those convergences is this: The business community in this state
has been willing to support a system of higher education on a low tuition, relatively higher
taxpayer participation and lower student participation. The business community has been willing to
support that throughout the decades, to build a community college system and the business
community has been willing to pay the freight. That's paid off. We have a great community
college system and a great university system. We have a good public schools in North Carolina.
And so those are some of the choices that lie ahead for us as we confront a recessionary
economy. I'm very optimistic about this economy. Our unemployment rate is beginning to tick
down, retail sales are coming up, auto sales are coming up, home sales are coming up, construction
will pick up soon, by the end of this year we'll be well on our way out of this recession
again, but it's tough right now, no question. People in North Carolina are hurting. Many
people without jobs, many people living just a few dollars day to day. It's very difficult
for all of us in North Carolina right now.
>> Fran Wescott: And we've talked at great length then about the connection between the
business community and education in North Carolina, and in the context of those decades
of support, do you feel that the support from the business community either needs to or
will take a different shape or play a larger role in supporting both the community colleges
and university systems as well as K 12 education? What do you see in the future? If you had
your crystal ball and your druthers?
>> Senator Basnight: I'm not sure what else you can do.
I am a small business owner. You support the schools in any way you can, but you're starving
for effective workers who have good attitudes and who want to get up and go to work. That
is a bit of a problem in a seasonal environment like I live in. So when you get away from
the coast or the mountains or tourism, wherever it may be, you get incredible support by the
business community in the community colleges, public schools, where I live, all of us give
as best we can. But it all comes back to me, to the family early on and with the focus
that I'm going to work, I'm going to do all I can within my abilities, and then the business
community and North Carolina's government does all they can. I believe you need more
jobs in North Carolina. You need them badly, and in America. How do
you get those? You compete worldwide. How can you compete worldwide? You make something
that the world needs and you make it here and you sell it. You market your abilities
to design. We have energy companies that have moved in outside and in Charlotte from around
the world because of our emphasis on energy at UNC Charlotte, Duke Power, other companies
as well. But we have to train. These businesses need us right now to graduate engineers and
then when you come back to other parts of North Carolina, you find that the biosciences,
the biotechnologies are ripe for investment, but you have to have that trained worker or
the worker that you can train. Can businesses do more? And we as individuals? Certainly
we can, but it is a very, very difficult climate for many companies in America. So we have
to shift our focus into that area of science, technology and math. We have to graduate more
in our high schools, but if we do that, we have to have slots and facilities in our schools.
Last night in Greenville, Paul Cunningham, the new dean of the school of medicine at
ECU has rightfully explained to us that we have no doctors to fill the vacancies and
the needs in medicine in North Carolina today. And many of our medical schools in the health
science field, they go to work outside of North Carolina. So we have to open up the
slots. We have a very, very serious funding problem for our universities today. And we
cannot grow that economy without that high profile worker.
>> Representative Hackney: We have-- I mentioned earlier, that fits with what Senator Basnight
is saying, we have a lot of jobs in the technology sector. Particularly, I think we're told we
have more than 50,000 biotech workers in North Carolina. High skilled, high paying by and
large jobs. We have one of those in Pittsboro in Chatham County, my district, very successful.
So we need to provide a public education system, a community college system, and a university
system that feeds that economy. And I think we have the basics in place. We
have a way for a talented kid to go into these areas, but we need to make sure going back
to what we started off with, we need to make sure that some interest is sparked, somebody
reaches the kid to give the kid what he or she needs to move forward to take the next
step. Maybe it's a hard step. Maybe they're held back by poverty or bad situation at home
or whatever, but to get on a track to get into those jobs of that we will be filling
in the future in North Carolina that are good paying and provide a good living for one's
family. So it all fits together and we are trying very hard to put all the pieces in
place. And, I guess more importantly in this economy, to keep them in place when we're
having a declining revenues as we've had in the past year or two.
>> Fran Wescott: Gentlemen, One more question. We haven't talked so much about the community
college system in particular, and there's an indication that it's critical to the education
environment in North Carolina so the economy can move forward.
But there's also an enormous amount of discussion about how the demand on the community college
system surges when the economy declines. Do you see in the next session that you all will
have an opportunity to address the community colleges specifically in the context of this
nexus?
>> Senator Basnight: You couldn't leave them out, you would have no economy whatsoever.
They don't only provide the baker and the plumber, the training for the electrical contractor,
the heating and air, the crafts that we have that are so important in the mountains of
North Carolina and the worker for whatever field it may be that supports small business
owner, as well as the breeding and starting ground for that scientist, for that doctor,
for that lawyer, for whatever you may become after starting in your local community with
two years of education or more right there and online at home and in high school.
You can get a big jump start on whatever that educational dream may be, but they need instruments,
they need labs, they need tools, they need equipment, and they need salaries for a growing
faculty. So their money needs are extreme. When we talk about a growing state, with that
becomes an obligation to educate the children, the new student. And North Carolina is growing,
so we have a serious money problem in funding the needs of education for the businesses
of North Carolina. The small business owner needs competent, well skilled workers. And
the community colleges and universities and high schools furnish those workers. The trades
are so critical to the welfare of our personal economy.
>> Representative Hackney: Community colleges are key. And
It is very difficult when they are exploding in their student growth in a time of recession
and our revenues are declining, it's a difficult situation for us. But it is very important
that we keep them strong for we have lots of high school students now in the early college
program which are who are taking community college courses, that's the spark they need
to keep going, to move on ahead. Our community college system and university system are working
together seamlessly now. The community colleges in many cases where
a student is not prepared, doesn't want to go off to a college or university right away,
they can do the initial part of their college education at a local community college where
it's easier to pay the tuition, easier to get there, easier to, perhaps, hold a part
time job while you're doing it. So it's a wonderful feeder system for our colleges and
universities. And many of those students go on to great things, to advanced degrees and
all sorts of things. So it's a very key part of our education continuum in North Carolina.
They do a great job. They also are well equipped to do very specific jobs, like if a particular
industry is coming in to the community colleges can do the training for the workers, that's
happened over and over in North Carolina. We don't give them enough money to do that
in the way that they are capable of doing if they have more money. Because it does,
As Senator Basnight says, it takes equipment, expensive equipment in some cases, but it's
necessary to train those workers for those high tech jobs.
>> Fran Wescott: Gentlemen, before we close out our hour or our conversation for today,
if you had one message that you would like to share with folks who are watching, they're
preparing to engage in this conversation about business and education, whether it would be
a question that you would pose to the general public or a thought you would like to share
with them about this critical aspect of public life in North Carolina, what would you like
that one closing thought to be?
>> Representative Hackney: Let me say this. A world class university system, a well funded
community college system and an excellent public school system will propel North Carolina
ahead of other states, ahead of other countries in the world into the jobs of the next decades
ahead. We can choose not to do that or we can choose to do it. We've been making the
investments, I think, that indicates our choice is to move North Carolina ahead, to prepare
the kids that we have today for those jobs. We could certainly make a choice not to do
it, but it's not a choice I want us to make. And I hope the people of North Carolina will
continue to support us as we move North Carolina ahead in meeting these educational challenges.
>> Fran Wescott: Okay.
>> Senator Basnight: Joe spoke well on that subject. I'll move to the infrastructure and
to the people of North Carolina. I would have to say we have to be awfully
conscious of the water and sewer and energy needs of North Carolina. Businesses have to
have a clean environment in a cheap or as cheap as possible energy source as well as
the consumer. And that cannot hold true with fossil fuels only as the major source of developing
energy because of the pollution associated with the burning of fossil fuels. That's why
we need to, as quickly as possible, find new sources of energy for our future. Our roads
in North Carolina are in a deteriorating state, the rural areas cannot grow without roads,
the urban areas cannot stand the level of congestion that is occurring in our cities.
So sources of revenues will have to be addressed by somebody at some time, and the quicker
the better that should occur. And in a civil way that we all fully understand that it does
have to occur.
>> Representative Hackney: And we have to keep the fiscal integrity of our state strong.
This has been done over the years by our predecessor in these offices. We have not in North Carolina
mortgaged or buildings for current revenues, we've got mortgaged our lottery revenues into
the future, we've not sold our state parks. We have a Triple A bond rating. We've not
overborrowed. North Carolina is in fiscally in pretty good shape considering the recession
and considering the times we're in. We balance the budget every single year and we do it
in a way that exhibits fiscal integrity. So while we do all these good things for North
Carolina and prepare for the future, we have to keep North Carolina's reputation strong
for good fiscal management. I think we will do that.