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>> HELLO AND WELCOME TO THIS "DIALOGUE" WEB EXTRA.
I'M MARCIA FRANKLIN.
I'M HERE WITH CONSERVATIONIST SHANE MAHONEY.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU WRITE ABOUT AND SPEAK A LOT
ABOUT IS THE IMPORTANCE OF NOT FORGETTING THE HUMAN IN THIS
WHOLE DISCUSSION.
>> UH-HMM.
>> WHICH SOMETIMES HAPPENS.
>> IT DOES SOMETIMES HAPPEN.
IT'S SOMETIMES IN THE ENERGY AND ENTHUSIASM WHICH ARE
BROUGHT TO THESE DEBATES, IT IS POSSIBLE TO SEE A WORLD VIEW
EMERGING WHERE PEOPLE SUGGEST THAT ALL WE NEED TO DO IS TAKE
HUMAN BEINGS OUT OF THE EQUATION AND EVERYTHING WILL BE
FINE.
THIS IS WHAT I CALL THE MYTH THAT WILDLIFE EXISTS BY
ACCIDENT.
I MEAN, WILDLIFE NO LONGER EXISTS BY ACCIDENT ANYWHERE IN
THE WORLD.
IT ONLY EXISTS BY VIRTUES OF THE DECISIONS THAT WE MAKE OR
DO NOT MAKE.
BUT WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND IF ONE REALLY WANTS TO TAKE A
NATURAL VIEW, ECOLOGICAL VIEW OF THE PLANET, THEN WE HAVE TO
RECOGNIZE THAT HUMAN BEINGS ARE ONE OF MANY SPECIES THAT OCCUPY
IT.
OUR ENGAGEMENTS WITH IT WILL BE TENSION FILLED AND DYNAMIC, BUT
NEVERTHELESS THAT WE DO MATTER.
AND I HAVE SEEN WHAT THE MOTIVATIONS, GOOD MOTIVATIONS
OF GOOD PEOPLE CAN DO TO CREATE A BETTER WORLD.
AND THE LAST THING WE WANT TO DO IS TO ALIENATE PEOPLE AND
MAKE THEM FEEL THAT THEY CANNOT MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THE
CONSERVATION OF NATURE IF THEY ARE USERS OF NATURE AT THE SAME
TIME.
THAT IS JUST NOT TRUE.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENS IN HUNTING, FOR EXAMPLE, WHICH
IS VERY HARD FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T HUNT TO UNDERSTAND, IS
THAT AT A CERTAIN POINT IN THE TAKING OF THE LIFE OF A CENTIUN
CREATURE, CONSUMING THAT ANIMAL, AND EATING THE ANIMAL
AND SHARING THE MEAT OF THE ANIMAL WITH OTHER PEOPLE, YOU
REALLY DO HAVE THE COMPLETELY EMPIRICAL BASIS FOR UNDER
STANDING HOW THE WORLD WORKS.
AND WHEN YOU GO THAT FAR, AND IT'S NOT AN EASY DECISION.
IT SHOULD NEVER BE AN EASY DECISION.
BUT WHEN YOU GO THAT FAR, YOU BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND THAT AT
THAT MOMENT, YOU HAVE A SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY, AND AN
OBLIGATION TO WILDLIFE THAT FAR EXCEEDS ANYONE ELSE.
EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO HAS ENGAGED IN THAT ACTIVITY, EVERY
SINGLE ONE OF THEM WHO HAS TAKEN THE LIFE WILLFULLY OF --
>> ARE HUNTERS HURT THOUGH BY THE ATTENTION THAT IS PAID TO
THE ONES WHO HAVE NOT DONE IT IN THAT WAY.
>> OF COURSE.
>> WHO HAVE GONE IN AND POACHED, TAKEN, YOU KNOW,
TROPHY HUNTING JUST FOR THE CERTAIN OBJECT AND NOT EATEN IT
OR GONE AND PAID TO HAVE AN ANIMAL PARADE IN FRONT OF THEM
AND SHOOT IT.
>> HUNTING FRATERNITY AND HUNTING SOCIETY, HUNTING
CULTURE IS LIKE EVERY OTHER ONE.
MADE UP OF A WIDE DIVERSITY OF PEOPLE.
I WOULD SEPARATE POACHING, OF COURSE, FROM HUNTING, BECAUSE
IT IS A DIFFERENT ACTIVITY.
>> SURE.
>> AND WITH REGARD TO THE ISSUE OF TROPHY, I WOULD NOT CLASSIFY
MYSELF IN ANY SENSE AS A TROPHY HUNTER EXCEPT THAT EVERY HUNTER
TRIES TO BRING BACK SOME MEMENTO OF THE HUNT.
AND FOR SOME PEOPLE, THAT IS A FULL MOUNT OF THE ANIMAL.
IN SOME CASES IT IS SIMPLY A TOOTH OR A HORN OR SOMETHING
SMALLER.
ONE NEEDS TO BE, I GUESS, CAREFUL ABOUT THE NUANCES THAT
ARE BURIED WITHIN THERE.
BUT IS HUNTING HURT BY POOR BEHAVIOR?
IS HUNTING HURT BY PEOPLE WHO HUNT BUT WHO ARE CALLOUS
TOWARDS ANIMALS?
OF COURSE.
BUT ANYONE WHO IN MY VIEW, ANYONE WHO IS DISRESPECTFUL OF
ANIMALS OR MISTREATS ANIMALS IN ANY WAY, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE AN
OUTLOOK ON LIFE THAT I DON'T SHARE AND I DON'T THINK IS TO
BE CONDONED.
BUT HUNTING, YOU KNOW, HUNTING AS THROWN UP SOME OF THE
GREATEST CONSERVATION HEROES THAT WE HAVE HAD, BOTH ON THIS
CONTINENT AND ELSEWHERE.
IT HAS ALSO EXPOSED SOME INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE HAD
ENTIRELY DIFFERENT MOTIVATIONS.
AND THAT IS A REALITY THAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH.
BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO DO NOT HUNT, WHO MAY ALSO
NOT HAVE THE BEST OF ATTITUDES TOWARDS ANIMALS.
I THINK THEY DESERVE -- I THINK THEY DESERVE RESPECT.
I THINK THEY DESERVE OUR EFFORTS.
FOR ME, PERSONALLY, THEY HAVE GIVEN ME SO MUCH.
THAT TO IMAGINE A WORLD WITHOUT ANIMALS IS, YOU KNOW, THAT
WOULD BE A DEFINITION OF HELL.
>> AND GOING BACK TO WHAT YOU SAID, THERE WOULD BE NO
ACCIDENT WITH THE WILD OTHERS, THEY EXIST BECAUSE OF WHAT WE
DO.
THAT IS A BIG STATEMENT.
I MEAN, WE'VE GOTTEN TO THE POINT WHERE WE MAKE THE
DIFFERENCE.
>> ABSOLUTELY TRUE.
>> BETWEEN WHETHER ANIMALS LIVE OR NOT.
>> ABSOLUTELY TRUE.
>> CLIMATE CHANGE BEING PART OF THAT.
>> ABSOLUTELY TRUE.
CLIMATE CHANGE, INDUSTRIALIZE INDUSTRIALIZATION,
AGRICULTURAL, FORESTRY PRACTICES THAT ARE NOT
APPROPRIATE.
A LOT OF THEM ARE.
A LOT CAN BE MODIFIED.
THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER FOR THE WORLD RIGHT NOW, AND EVERYONE
NEEDS TO RECOGNIZE IT, WILDLIFE IS NOT AN ACCIDENT.
THAT'S WHY CONSERVATION MATTERS SO MUCH.
WHETHER WE DECIDE TO DO THE RIGHT THING OR WE DECIDE TO DO
THE WRONG THING OR WE SIMPLY FAIL TO MAKE A DECISION AT ALL,
THAT WILL BE WHAT INFLUENCES THE FATE OF WILDLIFE AROUND THE
WORLD.
THE OCEANS, THE LAND, THE AIR, THE FRESH WATERS.
AND HISTORY IS CLEAR, HISTORY IS CLEAR THAT WHEN NATIONS
ABUSE THE NATURAL ENVIRONMENT IN WHICH THEY LIVE, CALAMITY,
DIFFICULTY, STRIFE AND CONFLICT ARISE.
WE HAVE SEEN GREAT CIVILIZATIONS RISE AND FALL ON
THIS PATH.
NOTHING TO SAY THIS CAN'T HAPPEN AGAIN.
SIMPLY BECAUSE WE HAVE IMPROVED TECHNOLOGY, THAT DOES NOT GIVE
US A SAFETY NET THAT CANNOT BE BROKEN.
IT'S A -- IT'S -- IT'S A CLEAR CHOICE.
WE EITHER WORK TO KEEP THEM, OR WE WILL LOSE THEM.
THERE IS NO OTHER OPTION WHATSOEVER FOR THESE WILD
CREATURES ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, WHETHER THE ELEPHANTS OF
AFRICA, OR THE ELK OF MONTANA OR IDAHO, OR COD FISH OF
NEWFOUNDLAND -- THEY ALL NOW, THEIR FATE RESTS ON TABLES LIKE
THESE, WITH HUMAN BEINGS LIKE US HAVING DISCUSSIONS OF WHAT
WE WILL DO NEXT.
A REALLY IMPORTANT POINT ABOUT THIS IS THAT THIS IS NOT THE
DOMAIN, THE PURVIEW, THE RESPONSIBILITY OF ONLY THOSE
WHO ARE ENGAGED IN THE CONSERVATION MOVEMENT.
EVERY CITIZEN IN EVERY PROFESSION HAS THIS
RESPONSIBILITY, AND INCREDIBLY, EVERY SINGLE CITIZEN IN EVERY
AREA OF LIFE, IN EVERY OCCUPATION, HAS AN EQUAL CHANCE
TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
EVERYONE OF US CAN DO LIMITLESS GOOD.
THERE IS NO BOUNDARY ON THE GOOD WE CAN DO FOR WILDLIFE AND
WILD CREATURES IF WE SIMPLY COMMIT OURSELVES TO DOING IT.
YOU CAN BE A RURAL HOUSEWIFE CONSUMED PRIMARILY WITH RAISING
YOUR CHILDREN AND YOU CAN DO GOOD THINGS FOR WILDLIFE.
YOU CAN BE A CORPORATE LAWYER WHO HAS DONE EXTREMELY WELL AND
TAKES ON BIG CASES AND YOU CAN DO GREAT THINGS FOR WILDLIFE.
YOU CAN BE A HUNTER, NOT A HUNTER, YOU CAN BE ANY OF THIS.
ALL YOU HAVE TO BE IS A CITIZEN WITH A HEART AND YOU CAN DO
SOMETHING GOOD FOR WILDLIFE.
>> AS WE WRAP UP, HOW DIRE DO YOU FEEL THE SITUATION IS THESE
DAYS BASED ON THE DECADES OF WORK THAT YOU'VE DONE AND YOUR
TRAVELS.
ARE WE NEAR THE PRECIPICE?
>> WELL, I WOULD SAY THIS, THAT OF ALMOST ALL REGIONS IN THE
WORLD THAT I'M AWARE OF, CANADA AND THE UNITED STATES ARE
PROBABLY IN SOME OF THE MOST FAVORED POSITIONS OF ALL
NATIONS, AND THAT'S PART OF THE INHERITANCE OF OUR NORTH
AMERICAN MODEL OF CONSERVATION.
BUT I WOULD ALSO SAY THAT IT IS INEVITABLE NOW THAT WE WILL
LOSE A CONSIDERABLE NUMBER OF WILD SPECIES IN THE NEXT DECADE
AND THE DECADES TO FOLLOW, AND THAT WE WILL SEE IN SOME CASES
EVEN THE ICONIC ANIMALS, THE RHINO, FOR EXAMPLE, THE LION,
YOU KNOW, SPECIES OF THIS NATURE THAT ALMOST EVERY CHILD
CAN RECOGNIZE, WE WILL SEE THOSE MORE AND MORE ISOLATED TO
SMALLER AND SMALLER AND SMALLER PARTS OF THE PLANET.
AND IT WILL BE A REAL STRUGGLE IN MANY CASES TO KEEP THEM WITH
US IN THE WILD AT ALL.
AND IT IS -- IT WILL ONLY BE THROUGH A COMMITMENT OF NATIONS
AS A GLOBAL COMMUNITY THAT WE WILL STAND ANY CHANCE TO
FORESTALL THESE CALAMITIES.
BECAUSE WE MAY NOT EVEN BE AWARE OF THE FINAL BREATH TAKEN
BY A SPECIES -- FOR THEN AN ANIMAL IN THE HIGH ARCTIC OF
CANADA.
PEOPLE WILL NOT NECESSARY WITNESS THIS.
BUT PEOPLE DO HAVE A SENSE OF PROPORTION, AND THEY DO HAVE A
SENSE OF BEAUTY.
AND, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE NOTICE IN THEIR OWN LIFETIMES WHETHER AS
MANY BIRDS SING OR WHETHER THEY SEE AS MANY BUTTERFLIES OR
WHETHER THEY SEE THE SAME HEALTH AND VITALITY IN THE
LANDSCAPES THAT THEY HAVE GROWN UP IN.
AND EVERYONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WILL TELL YOU IN THEIR OWN WAY
THAT THEY SENSE A PERSONAL DIMINISHMENT IN THE LOSS OF
THOSE THINGS.
>> AND THE NATIVE CULTURES ARE COMING FORWARD TO TALK ABOUT
WHAT THEY'RE SEEING AND THEY ARE PLAYING A BIG ROLE IN THIS
AS WELL.
>> THEY ARE.
THEY ARE.
AND, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE A -- THEY HAVE A CURRENCY THAT
PEOPLE FIND VERY HARD TO DISMISS.
IT'S INTERESTING THAT EVEN ON THE DIVIDE OVER THE USE OF
ANIMALS AND THE HUNTING AND TAKING OF ANIMALS IN WHATEVER
FORM, THAT THERE TENDS TO BE A COLLECTIVELY DIFFERENT VIEW
OFTEN TOWARDS INDIGENOUS PEOPLES.
IN RECOGNITION OF THE FACT THAT THEIR LIVES REMAIN CLOSELY
ENTWINED AND DIRECTLY DEPENDENT ON WILD NATURE.
BUT IF PEOPLE TAKE JUST A SMALL STEP BACK, THEY WILL REALIZE
THAT NONE OF US ARE VERY FAR AWAY FROM THIS.
>> I HAVE THE SENSE THAT PERHAPS WITH MEDIA BEING THE
WAY IT IS, GETTING SMALLER AND SMALLER, AND SOCIAL MEDIA BEING
WHAT IT IS, PEOPLE PUTTING STUFF OUT THERE, THAT MORE AND
MORE PEOPLE WILL ACTUALLY SEE POACHED ANIMALS, ANIMALS DYING
THAT -- THERE WAS AN EXAMPLE RECENTLY OF AN ELEPHANT THAT
HAD TAKEN OVER WHEN THE LEADER HAD BEEN POACHED, AND IT, TOO,
WAS POACHED.
AND WITHIN A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, THERE WAS VIDEO OF
THAT ELEPHANT LYING ON THE GROUND WITH -- IT WAS DEAD, BUT
A GAME WARDEN TRYING TO HELP IT.
AND THAT GOT OUT.
>> YEAH.
>> SO, I'M WONDERING, MAYBE THE WORLD WILL HEAR MORE ABOUT
THESE EVENTS THROUGH MEDIA.
>> SOCIAL MEDIA IS TREMENDOUS IN ONE WAY FOR EXACTLY THE
REASON YOU EXPRESS, IN THAT IT CAN REACH SO MANY PEOPLE AND SO
CRITICALLY.
A DEFICIT OF THE SOCIAL MEDIA, IN MY VIEW, IS THAT IT OFTEN
ARRIVES COMPLETELY WITHOUT CONTEXT.
>> SURE.
>> AND SO IT IS VERY DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT
MIGHT HAPPEN.
SO, FOR EXAMPLE, SOMEONE MIGHT SEE A PHOTOGRAPH LIKE THAT OF
AN ELEPHANT THAT IS DEAD, AND MAYBE A GROUP OF PEOPLE AROUND
IT BUTCHERING IT TO EAT IT AND WITHOUT CONTEXT THEY MAY NOT
REALLY UNDERSTAND.
THAT IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM WHAT YOU'VE JUST DESCRIBED.
WE HAVE MILITIAS IN SEVERAL REGIONS OF THE AFRICAN
CONTINENT, IN SEVERAL COUNTRIES THERE THAT ARE NOW INCREASINGLY
USING ELEPHANT IVORY AND RHINO HORN TO FINANCE THEIR
OPERATIONS OF TERROR.
YOU KNOW, JUST IMAGINE IF THE DEBATES WE WERE HAVING IN IDAHO
ABOUT, YOU KNOW, CONSERVATION INVOLVED WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT
MILITIAS WHO ARE SLAUGHTERING WILDLIFE FOR SALE AND WREAKING
VIOLENCE AND HAVOC AMONGST OUR PEOPLE --
>> YOU TOLD A STORY TO THE WILDLIFE OFFICERS THE OTHER DAY
THAT IS NOT A PLEASANT ONE TO HEAR, BUT IT'S ONE THAT YOU
TELL AND IT HAS TO DO WITH RHINOS, BECAUSE YOU FEEL PEOPLE
NEED TO KNOW THE DETAILS OF WHAT IS GOING ON.
>> I MEAN, THE, YOU KNOW, THESE GREAT ANIMALS ARE BEING
POACHED, RHINO HORN IS NOW ONE OF THE MOST VALUABLE
COMMODITIES BY WEIGHT IN THE WORLD.
SO, NATURALLY THERE IS A HUGE MARKET FOR IT.
YOU KNOW, THERE ARE CULTURES THAT WISH TO HAVE IT, THAT USE
IT FOR A VARIETY OF PURPOSES.
IN SOME CASES FOR TRADITIONAL MEDICINE PURPOSES, AND IN SOME
CASES, FOR THE INDULGENCES -- WHERE PEOPLE MIX A LITTLE RHINO
HORN WITH THEIR WINE OR USE IT AS A HANGOVER CURE AND IN SOME
CASES THESE DRINKS COST $400 A POP TO HAVE.
BUT THE LONG CHAIN OF REALITY IS THAT AT SOME POINT, AN
ANIMAL LIVING IN THE WILD ENVIRONMENT WAS APPROACHED BY
PEOPLE, WELL ORGANIZED, LETHALLY EQUIPPED WHO EITHER
SHOT THAT ANIMAL AND THEN SAWED ITS FACE OFF WITH A CHAIN SAW
TO QUICKLY EXTRACT THE HORN AND GET OUT OF THERE AS QUICKLY AS
POSSIBLE.
AND IN SOME CASES, OF COURSE, THE ANIMALS ARE NOT DEAD.
THEY'VE BEEN CRITICALLY WOUNDED BUT THEY'RE NOT DEAD, AND, SO,
THEY EXPERIENCE THIS TRAUMA AND THIS TERROR.
IN OTHER CASES -- >> OF HAVING --
>> OF HAVING THEIR FACES SAWED OFF.
AND IN SOME CASES THEY EVEN SURVIVE AND THEN HAVE TO BE
KILLED BY WILDLIFE ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS AND OTHERS, AND IN
SOME CASES NOW, SOME OF THESE GROUPS HAVE FIGURED OUT THAT
WHY DISCHARGE A FIREARM AND ATTRACT ATTENTION TO YOURSELF?
WHY NOT JUST USE IMMOBILIZING DRUGS THAT WE USE WHEN WE
CAPTURE WILDLIFE AND THEY IMMOBILIZE THESE ANIMALS, AND
WHEN THE ANIMAL CANNOT REACT, THEY SAW THEIR FACES OFF WITH
CHAIN SAWS AND THESE ANIMALS AWAKEN.
THEY'RE IN HORRIFIC PAIN, YOU KNOW.
THEY SURVIVE FOR SHORT PERIODS OF TIME WITH GHASTLY WOUNDS AND
EVENTUALLY HAVE TO BE KILLED.
THESE ARE SOME OF THE SCALES OF PROBLEMS THAT PEOPLE ARE
DEALING WITH.
THESE ARE NOT IMAGINARY TALES.
WE HAVE TO STEP BACK AND SAY WE ARE FORTUNATE TO HAVE WHAT WE
HAVE.
TO BE ABLE TO HAVE INTENSIVE DEBATES OVER HOW WE ALLOCATE
LICENSES FOR ELK.
IN NEWFOUNDLAND -- IS CLIMATE CHANGE GOING TO AFFECT POLAR
BEARS?
WHAT SHOULD THE ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT DO?
PUT ALL OF THOSE AND ADD THEM ALL TOGETHER AND PUT THEM ON A
SCALE OF SEVERITY AND COMPLICAT
COMPLICATEDNESS AND SEE IF THEY WILL NOT COLLECTIVELY BE FAR
LIGHTER THAN THAT ONE PROBLEM THAT COUNTRIES IN AFRICA ARE
CURRENTLY DEALING WITH WITH THE RHINO.
>> PEOPLE WHEN THEY LISTEN TO THAT STORY -- INTAKE OF BREATH,
YOU KNOW.
WILL SOMETIMES THINK, MYSELF INCLUDED, WELL, WHAT CAN YOU
DO?
WHAT CAN YOU DO?
ARE THERE GROUPS THAT YOU RECOMMEND, THAT YOU SUPPORT,
THAT YOU THINK ARE DOING A GOOD JOB THAT NEED MONEY?
WHICH ONES DO YOU RECOMMEND WHEN PEOPLE SEE THESE TYPE OF
THINGS AND THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY CAN DO FROM THE UNITED
STATES OF AMERICA TO HELP?
>> THAT IS THE GOOD NEWS IN ALL OF THIS.
ALL OVER THE WORLD, IN SOME OF THE MOST UNLIKELY PLACES,
SOMETIMES, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING ON BEHALF OF
WILDLIFE.
YOU KNOW, PEOPLE OF EVERY RACE AND COLOR AND RELIGION,
NATIONALITY, WHO ARE DESPERATELY WORKING TO DO THEIR
PART FOR WILDLIFE.
WE HAVE ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THE IUCN, INT NARGSAL UNION FOR THE
CONSERVATION OF NATURE WHICH I'M CLOSELY ASSOCIATED WORK
THAT DOES TREMENDOUS WORK AROUND THE WORLD, TRYING TO
FIND SOLUTIONS, ADVOCATING ON THE BASIS OF SCIENCE.
YOU HAVE ORGANIZATIONS, INTERNATIONALLY, THE WORLD
WILDLIFE FUND THAT HAS DONE TREMENDOUS WORK WITH BOTH
PEOPLE AND WILDLIFE.
OF COURSE HERE IN NORTH AMERICA, THERE IS AN ENORMOUS
ARRAY OF ORGANIZATIONS THAT HAVE DONE TREMENDOUS THINGS.
IN THE UNITED STATES OF MER -- AMERICA, YOU ARE BURSTING AT
THE SEEMS -- >> SOMETIMES IT IS HARD TO
KNOW.
>> SOMETIMES PEOPLE MAKE THE DECISION ON THE BASIS OF A
PARTICULAR PHILOSOPHY.
IF THEY ARE A HUNTER, FOR EXAMPLE, THEY TEND TO SUPPORT
HUNTER-BASED ORGANIZATIONS.
IF THEY'RE NOT, THEY MAY SUPPORT OTHERS.
I WISH WE COULD SEE THAT DISSIPATE TO AN APPRECIABLE
EXTENT.
IF JOHN MUIR, THE GREATEST WILDERNESS PROPHET IN AMERICAN
HISTORY AND PROBABLY ONE OF THE GREATEST WILDERNESS PROPHETS IN
THE WORLD, AND THEODORE ROOSEVELT, UNQUESTIONABLY ONE
OF THE GREATEST CONSERVATIONISTS WHO WAS A
HUNTER, COULD HAVE THE INTENSE, MUTUAL RESPECT AND SUPPORT FOR
ONE ANOTHER THAT THEY DID, AND TOGETHER HELP LAUNCH, YOU KNOW,
SUCH INFLUENTIAL ORGANIZATIONS, SIERRA CLUB, ETC., I THINK WE
OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO FIND A FAIR AMOUNT OF COMMON GROUND TO.
>> THANK YOU.
THANK YOU FOR THE DISCUSSION.
>> YOU'RE WELCOME.
>> AND FOR THE EXTRA DISCUSSION.
I APPRECIATE IT.
THANK YOU FOR TUNING INTO THIS "DIALOGUE" WEB EXTRA.
YOU HAVE BEEN LISTENING TO SHANE MAHONEY.
GO TO idahoptv.org AND CLICK ON "DIALOGUE."
I'M MARCIA FRANKLIN.