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Daniel Jerusalem
In your view, before 1948 did Jews and Arabs get along better than they do today?
In my view, Arabs and Jews will never get along
But before 1948, things weren't better?
It was a bit better
Today's situation is dangerous we are tense
Them and us
What?
We are at the breaking point before a war breaks out
Everyone is so tense
What is your background?
Yemenite
On both sides? Yes
Did your grandparents have stories about the relations in Yemen?
between Jews and Muslims
No
Michael Tel Aviv
Arab Riots (1920s and 30s)
The Arab Riots, Hebron (1929)
I have a berry tree in my yard that my grandparents brought from Iraq with them
it is still there in my yard
They replanted it in my yard in 2002 and I take care of it
It produces white berries
Zvika Ramle
Were the relations between Muslims and Jews better here before 1948?
-of course (from the side)
No
That's just nonsense Why?
There were never good relations between us
My parents came from Egypt and they lived very well with the Arabs (Muslims)
I mean here. If before 1948, things here...
We weren't here yet so I don't know what to tell you
until Arafat got to power and screwed up the entire region
Where are my cucumbers?
My parents who came from Tunisia lived very well here with the Arabs
The specific question is about here...
Yes, here They lived here before 1948?
No, they came here in 1949 Ok, close
So they lived well together? Yes, very
Arabs outside think that up to 1947, everyone got along, but in 1948, everything fell apart
You say there were also good relations after 1948
and you say there were never good relations
Everyone and their own perspective
Shalom Givataim
Did Arabs and Jews get along before 48?
No, but it depends where
Why not?
Because they were always fighting for this land
So the conflict existed before 1948? Of course
I have nothing more to say
That is why they call me "Shalom" (peace)
Do you have any stories from those days? No
It would be my parent's stories From your parents
I don't want to tell them now
But that's what people want to hear Oh
They ask because many believe that before 48 Arabs and Jews got along, all was good
after 1948. because of Zionism, everything....
Zionism started before 1948 and that's why my parents came here
Where did they come from?
Central Europe
which is Russia, Poland, Ukraine the border was always moving
Why did they come?
Zionism. They didn't want to stay there so they came here
According to their stories, how were the relations between Jews and Arabs?
There were problems. But that wasn't their main focus. Survival was a bigger issue
Their stories were more about difficulties surviving, fitting in, finding work
Not about Arabs doing anything bad to them
There were stories about protecting themselves but not stories of war or terrorism
Those weren't a focus
So why did it start? the terrorism, etc.
It started before that Terrorism.... I don't want to go into it
The conflict started the moment Jews came here and said this is our land
and the Arabs were influenced by their own nationalism and said this is our land
and whoever doesn't want to compromise, fights
Before there was Zionism, or even the idea of Zionism, in the Arab lands
were Jews and Arabs living in harmony?
History tells us that Jews in the last 1000 years did much better under Islam
Under Islam, there was no Holocaust or massacres there were problems but like Jews in Europe
But were things great between them?
When Spain expelled all the Jews, it was the Turish Muslim empire that invited the Jews
That's also how many Jews came to Tiberius and Sfat (in what is now Israel)
So you see Islam as a postive force on Jews then
Look at the Iraqis here, the Babylonian Jews
What do they say?
Ask them about what a rich life and high social status they had there
So then why did they come here?
Because of the war of independence (1948) Everything changed
Ramle
Were the relations between Arabs and Jews better before 1948?
Yes Why?
Because they knew how to speak Yiddish
The milkman spoke Yiddish
They had nothing to ask for
No, they saw the Jews were weak
True
The weaker we get, we get more problems from them
The Jews didn't tell them we want a country
So before 48 the relations were better?
No, it is nonsense. There weren't any relations.
Where are you from?
Originally, Canada
If you go to Paris and ask a Parisian What will he answer you?
About Jews and Arabs here?
No, about the French and the Muslims there
I have no idea
I will answer you, I was there
That they take over, take away their jobs take away their children
They are parasites. They don't want to do anything They are destroying France
Who?
The Muslims
The question is about here before 48
It was better
It was better
So because they didn't know the Jews wanted a country
Yes. As soon as we established the country, they didn't like it
So they want to control?
What did you think? They want you in the sea
Do you have something to add?
Listen, things were good for me then, things are good for me today
I don't know. I wasn't here
I was here. They would speak to me in Yiddish
That's true?
There was a milkman named Abed Abed gute mensch (good person)
He spoke Yiddish better than the Poles
He would come with his giant cannister of milk to pour in your bottles
What can I tell you. Also today If you take the simple Arab guy
Things are good for them here They want it to continue
because they have good jobs
Our problem is the "headquarters" (leaders)
That's the problem
If they can find compromises, all will be good here
If this little country didn't exist... They would be in Canada
Yehezkel Jerusalem
There was always war
wars
Even before 1948?
They ask because...
They ran after the Jews, they always wanted to expel the Jews from the Land of Israel
That's what they want to do
Like in your family...
Is that something that happened in your family?
No
Is it true, that Jews and Arabs got along better before 1948?
Yoav Tel Aviv
I haven't read that many history books
But what I do know is that before 1948
There was a large population of Jews and a large population of Arabs in Israel
and they lived as good neighbours
There weren't big conflicts then. There wasn't Arab nationalism
There wasn't "we are Jews and don't want the Arabs"
There wasn't that kind of thing like you can find today
So do you think that in 1949 for example, it was like that?
Yes, because that is when nationalism started here
There was the partition plan from the British
Then the War of Independence in 1948 after the war there was
The Jews won the war and many Arabs fled and became refugees
That was a turning point so by 1949 I assume there was alot of hostility
on both sides
Was your family living here then?
My grandparents came exactly then from Europe
They were... They came after
My mother's mother got here and lived in a building with Arab renters
in Haifa It was the home of an Italian
that rented his big house to Arabs
and the Arabs left so they left the house with furniture
This is before 1948, before the war?
They came in 1948 just after the Arabs left
They fled, not left
The house didn't belong to those Arabs but there were many Arab houses
The Arabs ran away and other people came to live in their place
and the state took possession of those homes
so of course there was alot of hostility from the Arab side
Later, many returned, and many didn't return
and they still hold the keys to those homes in Jaffa and Haifa
Did you grandparents tell stories about good relations, bad relations?
between Jews and Arabs
After things developed more in the 50s and 60s there were good relations
with the Arabs who stayed in the country
there were good relations between us
In the 70s the Pan Arab movement began
So they started to define themselves as Arab there was a greater sense of nationalism
then in the 80s the intifada started against the Jewish state
and they started to see themselves as one nation, towards independence
I don't know alot but that's what I know
Any stories from your grandparents or parents?
about relations with Arabs?
My father's father had Arab workers
everything was great with them from the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s
What did he do?
He had a painting company and his workers painted
renovations
That's what I know
Anyone else have stories?
Not a story but I think the part about before 1948 is not correct
That the relations were good
In the 1920s and 1930s there were riots
Elon Misgav
The Jews say it was riots against the Jews
There may be two sides to this but the riots happened
Also, the waves of immigrants that came here
settled on Arab land
Like Rosh Pina which was settled on Arab village land
or other towns
I think the tensions have deeper roots
meaning 1948 is not the line where the conflict started
because before 1948, Arabs and Jews were the same status here
The British governed so both groups were seen as not the authorities of the land
and that's when the struggle for power began
When there are two groups who don't have authority over the land
So each is pulled towards his own group
and that is where the UN came up with the Partition Plan with Arab parts and Jewish part
but the sides didn't want to accept it
it is not an abstraction
Where is your family from?
at that time
My grandmother was born here before 1948
Does she have stories about relations at the time?
She told us about good relations
She grew up in Binyamina
She said there were good relations with the Arab neighbours
but there was always the complexity related to the religion, ok, not the religion
the complexity of the relations
I feel it is the same today
We live near Arab villages and I don't feel we have bad relations with them
but there is alway a complexity to it
there isn't a problem going to the supermarket or garage there
but there is always something in the air there is no hostility
so you feel you can't go there
but that tenseness is always in the air for both sides
Because of the outside conflict
I guess yes
The question of what is the outside conflict is very complex
because relations between two people are generally good
there is no line you cross between Arab and Jew
Everyone finds it in a different place
Samir (Christian Arab) Ramle
Were relations between Arabs and Jews better before 1948 than after 1948?
Yes
Before 1948, there were good relations between Arabs and Jews
They lived in the same place like in Jaffa they lived in the same places
Speak about Ramle
It doesn't matter This is about everywhere
Oh, all over?
In Ramle there were no Jews
No. They worked here. They came from Rehovot, Rishon Lezion, Beer Yaakov
They sold things and worked in Ramle but didn't live here
In Lod, Jews lived
In Ramle, the Jews owned a store but they didn't live here
in the evening they went home
So you say that before 48 the relations between were...
Yes, they would come from Rehovot shopping, selling things
So why was it easier then than today?
Look, (back then) Jews were a minority
There weren't that many
There were 25,000 in Ramle for example
and how many Jews?
In Ramle?
Yes
Maybe 2%, 1%
Arabs accepted the minority with respect to work, to deal with respect
From Rehovot they would come sell here agriculture, fruits, and Arabs worked with them
All those who came came from Libya
After 1948, how were the bad relations created...
After 1948, all of Israel was 600,000 Jews
and there were 1.5 million Arabs
When they conquered this area, some fled, some were expelled
Their houses stayed empty and they started to bring immigrants
Where did they come from? From Iraq, through....
Operation Ezra and Nehemiah When most of the Iraqis came
they sneaked them out through Persia and Turkey
Avram Hiller who was the Minister of Police was involved bringing them
How? If they were an Iraqi family they would be put with an Iraqi family
Coming from Tunisia, would stay with Tunisian Coming from Egypt, would stay with Egyptians
That's how they settled them
When the Iraqis came in the 1950s there wasn't even enough food for them
They left everything there, ran away, were afraid of the Arabs (Muslims)
they encountered murders, they ran away
More immigration all of North Africa came
Moroccans, Tunisians, Libyans, Algerians
They started coming on ships
and there was the problems between (Menachem) Begin and
Etsel, Ben Gurion
They sank the ship
3000 Jews were on the ship and they sank it
Like the problems between Fatah and ...
After there was the scandal with the Yeminites, where they hid the kids
From Operation Magic Carpet
So after 1948, and they brought so many immigrants
What happened? Were there more Jews than Arabs in Ramle?
Yes And because of that, the relations suffered? Yes
So how did that make the relations suffer?
At the begining, the Arabs here the store owners, the home owners
Were afraid of the Jews because of the occupation
Yes, and now the Jews have more
The Israeli police, the Israeli army
They worked together in hesitation
The Iraqis (Israelis) would attack Arabs
Once a Jew was run over
near the prison, an Iraqi
a taxi ran him over
and they did a "Farhoud" (massacre)
They attacked Arabs in revenge because an Arab killed a Jew
It is called a lynch
Everyone closed their businesses for three days while they threw stones at us
People hid in the church for three days
According to what you say, because we conqured
We, the Jews... I say "we" because I am Jewish
The Jews conquered and felt superior to the Arabs and started to suppress the Arabs
Exactly! Like what happened in 67 in Jerusalem and Gaza
The same thing Exactly!
That's how it was. After people started to get to know each other
They started to work. Once you have money, you don't want to fight
Do you think the Jews still today suppress the Arabs in Ramle?
No
We are all one family now
So the relations since 2000 intifada
went back to 1948
This is amazing now
He is saying we are speaking the truth
So since 2000 (Second Intifada)
the relations went back to the way they were in 1948
Yes
Before 2000 even. After 1967
After 1973
So after people calm down
get used to the situation
they say "Okay. We can live together" Yes
Yes
Again, when did things change for the better?
From the 1980s
The relations got better and people lived together better
Yes