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[REV. DR. C. WELTON GADDY, HOST]: From Interfaith Alliance, this is State of Belief Radio. I'm
your host, Rev. Welton Gaddy. What a week of fast-breaking news out of a
traditionally closed world, the Vatican. We’ve been fortunate to be able to read frequent
updates from Religion News Service Vatican Correspondent Alessandro Speciale, working,
as he has been, immersed in the historic news of a papal resignation sweeping across Rome.
We’re very fortunate indeed that he has agreed to step away for just a few minutes
to talk with us today on State of Belief Radio. Alessandro, welcome back to the show!
[ALESSANDRO SPECIALE, GUEST]: Hello again! [WG]: How was this news of the Pope's resignation
received there where you are, in Rome? Was it as much of a shock there as it was in the
United States, or did you have some warning? [AS]: Well, no, everybody was taken by surprise
by this announcement. I mean, even if the Pope himself had said he would consider resigning
if he felt physically or psychologically incapable of carrying on with his duties, no one saw
it coming, because even if he is 85, and he was looking more tired and more frail in recent
months, there have been no breakdowns in health; nothing that led to the suspicion that he
was actually about to resign at this moment in time.
[WG]: The official explanation for the resignation is the Pope's deteriorating health. You have
just said you could see some deterioration in his health. But is that what is recognized
as the real reason for the resignation? [AS]: Well, no, the official reason is that
he didn't feel he had enough strength to carry on with the job, which means that in a sense,
he's also telling the cardinals and the world that being a pope is not, anymore, just about
praying and studying and leading a holy life; but being a pope is nowadays a very public
role. It involves traveling, it involves meeting with people, with millions of views when there
is a debate, it means being at the center of the world stage. So he is basically telling
that the pope is not fit because there has been any breakdown with my health, it is because
the requirements of the job of being pope have changed - and an 85-year-old person is
not the right person for the job anymore. [WG]: Alessandro, do you have a sense of the
mood inside the Vatican since the announcement? Is it a sense of panic, or sadness, or optimism?
[AS]: From the monsignore I talked to, the first reaction and the sense that is still
very much there, because people are still coming to grips with what is happening, has
been one of shock, of utter surprise. Some have felt - maybe not let down, but definitely
sadness; many monsignors, many cardinals said it openly. And at the time, there's also been
in the Catholic Church an attempt to try to grasp the spiritual meaning of this, in trying
to see what it means spiritually, and so, looking forward to what comes next. But definitely,
many people were surprised, and - maybe not personally hurt, but received this with a
sense of sadness, because they didn't expect it.
[WG]: Alessandro, I'm curious: when a decision like this is being made by the Pope, and I
have no idea how that's done, but does he consult with other people within the Vatican,
or does this decision come strictly from him and private reflection?
[AS]: Well, this is an interesting question. Church law has a provision for the Pope resigning,
even if no one had in the last 600 years actually used it. And he clearly consulted it because
in the announcement, he repeated word-for-word the formula in Church law so as to make sure
it was legally okay, legally valid. At the same time, it seems that he consulted very
little, and that this news that he wanted to resign was known just by the very, very
few people who are closest to him. And even senior cardinals like Cardinal Bertone and
Cardinal Sodano were told just in the few days preceding the announcement.
[WG]: I see. Well, now, a question that has been raised to me, and I suppose this is a
theological question, if you take seriously the infallibility of the Pope, how does an
infallible pope decide to resign? [AS]: Well, the answer so far - even if the
Vatican is continuing many aspects of a pope and a retired pope inside the Vatican - the
aspect of infallibility is probably one of the few things that in the Vatican, people
are not excessively worried about. The infallibility, as it is meant by the Catholic Church, is
one of the prerogatives of being pope. So once he resigns - he loses it. And even when
someone is pope, infallibility has a very narrow meaning. It basically means that when
the Pope makes some decision that has a doctrinal impact from the Church - so not everything
he does nor everything he says - but just on very few, specific topics, the Church believes
that the Holy Spirit will assist the Pope in a special way, so that he can make no wrong,
or at least he can't go excessively wrong - it will basically steer his hand away from
very big mistakes. So infallibility has a very narrow meaning, and it's safe to say
the Pope will lose it when he resigns. [WG]: That's a very helpful answer for people
standing outside that tradition. I know the Pope is the leader of the Church, but he also
serves as the head of state for Vatican City. What kind of reaction to his resignation have
you seen on the streets? [AS]: Well, in Rome, because there are no
real Vatican citizens - Vatican citizens are mostly cardinals or a handful of Vatican employees
- in the streets, the surprise has been big; actually, it has been quite some shock. One
of the most common questions was, "Can the Pope actually resign?" Because this is so
unprecedented, people didn't even think it was possible.
[WG]: What do you think Pope Benedict XVI will most be remembered for?
[AS]: Well, probably this decision of his to resign will be one of the key acts that
will be remembered of his pontificate. Because it's still difficult to judge how much of
an impact that this will have on the papacy, but probably, it will be a strong and lasting
impact, because just think this: when the cardinals meet next month in Rome to elect
the Pope's successor, they might more open to consider a younger candidate; someone who
is 60, or maybe not even 60, or in his early 60's, so that with today's health, it's foreseeable
that he's going to have 20 years of healthy life ahead of him, in the knowledge that he
might, and potentially will, resign if he feels he's not up to the job or if there is
a need for change, for fresh energy, for fresh ideas in the papacy. And this is something
completely unprecedented, because until now, the cardinals had to choose someone that would
stay with them for life. It's one of the reasons why Benedict was chosen, because he was already
almost 80 when he was elected pope. [WG]: Alessandro, I notice in news coverage
that some people stay just at the level of the integrity of the resignation. And then
there are some who always sound a little suspicious, like: he didn't want to face the challenges
that the Church must face right now, with the continuing scandal related to the priesthood,
the debate over contraception that continues, and the really massive challenges that the
Church faces. Is it your sense that all of that played into him saying, "I don't have
the strength to do this"? [AS]: Well, I don't think he resigned, per
se, because of these challenges, because these challenges have always been there. And when
he spoke about the possibility of resigning, he also stressed that he didn't think that
a pope should resign under pressure; in fact he said the words, "any ongoing crisis." In
fact, it's so true: the so-called "butler affair" - the butler stealing his confidential
papers. And he waited for this affair to be over before resigning, I think it's more,
and actually, a Vatican-connected newspaper today gave weight to this hypothesis, that
he felt that there was a need, to address these challenges, of a different energy, of
a different approach; that he wouldn't be the right person because he was weak, and
growing weak and older. And so he possibly wanted to leave the challenge to someone else
who might be capable, who might have more the strength to do it.
[WG]: I understand. Would, again, for those of us who don't understand, as you do, what's
going on, tell us, what is happening now inside the Vatican, and what happens next to the
throne of St. Peter? [AS]: Well, it's kind of weird, because until
February 28th, when the Pope's resignation actually kicks in and becomes effective, the
Vatican tries to portray these last two weeks as business as usual. The Pope goes on with
his appointments, he receives bishops, he received the President of Romania, and there
have been some minor appointments in the Curia with bishops - so they try to portray that
it's business as usual. Of course, in the meantime, the Vatican is trying to understand
what, actually, the Pope's role will be once he has resigned. Then, on February 28 when
he resigns, the Vatican will go into so-called "sede vacante" mode, which means in Latin
that there is no one sitting on the throne of Peter, as they say. And this means that
a group of cardinals will start meeting regularly, and manage the daily affairs of the Church,
and then call for a Conclave, which is all the cardinals who are under 80 from all over
the world - there are 117 of them - will come to Rome. And it's supposed to be between March
15 through March 20, but that could change; they will gather secretly ad with no one watching
in the Sistine Chapel, under the famous Last Judgement fresco by Michelangelo, and then
they will secretly vote for who's going to be the next pope.
[WG]: Do you have any idea - is the Pope going to stay in the Vatican, or is he going to
go home? [AS]: Apparently, he's going to stay in the
Vatican. There's a small convent inside the Vatican walls where there was a handful of
nuns who left last autumn, and it's being renovated to prepare it to be the home, the
retirement home, of the retired pope. [WG]: I see. Well, I'm going to ask you a
question I bet you've been asked a hundred times by now: do you have any sense where
the next pope is likely to come from? [AS]: Ha! That's a very difficult question.
People say that the Church is ripe for a non-European pope; someone coming, maybe, from Latin America,
where the most Catholics live, or from Africa, where the Catholic Church is actually growing,
as opposed to Europe and North America - but that's very difficult to say, because most
of the cardinals that will elect the pope are European; one in four of them is, in fact,
Italian. So it's going to be really difficult for someone outside of Europe to be appointed.
This is a very difficult Conclave, I guess, to predict. There is no clear front-runner.
[WG]: Is there, from what you know about what happens in a Conclave, is there very frank
debate that talks about how someone can handle the various challenges that you and I have
mentioned? [AS]: Well, when the cardinals meet in the
Sistine Chapel, it's actually just for voting. The trying to understand and the consultation
between each other actually happen before the voting, or outside the voting. The cardinals
live sheltered and shielded from the outside world in a complex inside the Vatican called
Santa Marta, which is a bit like a luxury hotel. That's where they stay; and they are
secluded in there for the days of the Conclave. So I guess over meals and in this kind of
social moment, there is actually going to be discussion - but with no open campaigning,
no speeches and programs and open bids for the job.
[WG]: Well, it's a very dramatic and intriguing process. Alessandro, you're in Vatican City.
When you look at global news coverage of this event, is there anything that you see missing
or not understood? Is there something in particular that you think needs to be explained to Catholics
and others who are following this story that they may not be hearing about?
[AS]: Well, I think what is missing in coverage, probably what is missing most times from coverage
of the Catholic Church and actually of every coverage of very complex historical institutions
that have a long tradition which requires some kind of effort from the journalists and
from the audience to understand. And even though I know the rites and the ways of the
Catholic Church can look - and in fact, are - byzantine and illogical by modern standards,
and probably often just don't make much sense, at the same time, to understand them, you
have to try to put yourself in their own place. And this is a place where, for 2,000 years,
history has been made; things have been done on a long, uninterrupted sequence. And so
tradition and the old ways are very cherished, because they're considered as a key part of
the Vatican and of Catholicism. [WG]: This is a very busy time for Alessandro
Speciale, who is the Vatican correspondent for Religion News Service. We reached him
in Rome where he's been doing an outstanding job of covering the fast-breaking story of
Pope Benedict XVI's resignation effective February 28th. You can follow his coverage
at ReligionNews.com. He has been insightful and helpful to us.
Alessandro, for being with us today on State of Belief, Grazie mille!
[AS]: Grazie a voi. Thank you!