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>>> AND BREAKING NEWS AS YOU'RE
WATCHING LIVE COVERAGE HERE.
CNN'S SPECIAL COVERAGE OF THE
COUNTDOWN TO THE DEBT CEILING
DEADLINE.
WE WANT TO WELCOME OUR VIEWERS
HERE IN THE UNITED STATES AND
ALL AROUND THE WORLD.
I'M BROOKE BALDWIN.
>> I'M JAKE TAPPER.
THE SENATE HAS REACHED A DEAL TO
END THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN AND
RAISE THE DEBT CEILING FOR A FEW
MONTHS AS THE CLOCK TICKS DOWN,
BUT THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
HAS NOT JET WEIGHED IN.
IN FACT, REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP
IS EXPECTED TO MEET JUST A SHORT
TIME FROM NOW TO DISCUSS PLANS
WITH THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS.
>> SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN IN ABOUT A
HALF HOUR.
WANT TO BRING IN TWO DIFFERENT
VIEWPOINTS FROM TWO TEA PARTY
GUESTS.
AL RUSSO, AND KEVIN BRANDON.
SO GENTLEMEN, I HEAR THE LAUGH.
ACCURATE?
I HOPE THAT'S ACCURATE, BUT SAL,
LET ME BEGIN WITH YOU.
YOU SAY, LISTEN, WITH REGARD TO
OBAMA CARE AND WHAT WE HAVE BEEN
SEEING PLAYING OUT THE LAST
COUPLE WEEKS ON CAPITOL HILL,
END THE FIGHT NOW, RIGHT?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE
DEAL THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
TODAY, YOU KNOW, IS AN EXAMPLE
OF A FAILURE.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S GOING TO
BE ACCOMPLISHED, REALLY NOTHING
MORE THAN KICKING THE CAN DOWN
THE ROAD.
SO WE'RE TOTALLY DISSATISFIED
WITH WHERE WE ARE.
WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING TO
REMEDY THE PROBLEMS WITH OBAMA
CARE.
WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING IN
TERMS OF EXCESSIVE SPENDING.
WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING ABOUT
OUR DEBT IN THE LONG TERM.
THIS IS A KICK THE CAN DOWN THE
ROAD SOLUTION, SO WE'RE TOTALLY
DISSATISFIED WITH IT.
WE APPLAUD TED CRUZ AND MIKE LEE
FOR PUTTING UP THE FIGHT AND
TRYING TO EDUCATE THE AMERICAN
PEOPLE.
AND YOU KNOW, IDEALLY, WE WANTED
TO TRY TO CONVINCE FIVE
DEMOCRATS IN THE SENATE TO VOTE
TO DEFUND OBAMA CARE.
WE DIDN'T GET THAT DONE.
BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE'RE
HAPPY WITH LETTING THE LAW TAKE
EFFECT AS IT IS BECAUSE AS
PEOPLE ARE FINDING OUT TODAY,
THEY'RE NOT GETTING TO KEEP
THEIR INSURANCE POLICIES.
THE PREMIUMS ARE A LOT HIGHER
THAN OBAMA SAID.
THEY DON'T GET TO KEEP THEIR
DOCTORS.
PEOPLE AREN'T SIGNING UP.
I MEAN, THERE'S LOTS AND LOTS OF
PROBLEMS THAT SHOULD BE
ADDRESSED.
I THINK IT'S TOTALLY
IRRESPONSIBLE THAT THE CONGRESS
IS JUST WALKING AWAY FROM IT AND
NOT SOLVING ANY PROBLEMS.
>> I COULDN'T AGREE MORE WITH
WHAT HE JUST SAID.
THE ONE THING I WOULD ADD, AS
YOU LOOK AT THE DEAL AS IT'S
EMERGING, WE'RE GOING TO GET
BACK TOGETHER IN DECEMBER,
GROUNDHOG DAY AGAIN, WHAT I'M
FEARFUL IS IT'S NOT JUST KICKING
THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD, IT'S
GOING TO GO BACKWARDS.
WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN
DECEMBER?
MY FEAR IS WE'RE GOING TO UNDO A
LOT OF THE SEQUESTRATION CUTS.
>> SO ADAM, WHY WAS THIS A GOOD
IDEA?
>> TRYING TO STOP OBAMA CARE?
>> NO, NO, I DON'T WANT TO ARGUE
THE MERITS OF OBAMA CARE RIGHT
NOW.
I UNDERSTAND YOU FEEL STRONGLY
AND THERE'S ANOTHER PLACE AND
TIME FOR THAT.
I'M TALKING ABOUT THIS SPECIFIC
STRATEGY, TYING THE DEFUNDING OF
OBAMA CARE TO THE FUNDING OF THE
GOVERNMENT, AND THEN HOW IT WENT
ON FROM THERE.
HOUSE REPUBLICANS AND SENATE
DEMOCRATS NOT BEING ABLE TO
REACH ANY SORT OF COMPROMISE.
IF YOU COULD GO BACK IN TIME, DO
YOU THINK THERE WOULD BE A WAY
TO DO THIS MORE EFFECTIVELY?
>> YOU HAVE TO KEEP THIS FIGHT
UP.
OBAMA CARE IS GOING TO COST $2
TRILLION OVER THE NEXT TEN
YEARS.
I WOULD -- I THINK THE BEST TIME
TO STOP A BROKEN ENTITLEMENT
PROGRAM IS BEFORE IT STARTS.
SO I DON'T THINK THIS IS A FIGHT
THAT ANYONE WANTED, BUT IT NEEDS
TO BE HAD.
>> DON'T YOU THINK YOUR PARTY
AND MAYBE EVEN THE TEA PARTY
MOVEMENT WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN
PARTY, IS WEAKER TODAY THAN IT
WAS THREE WEEKS AGO?
POLLS WOULD SUGGEST THAT MOST OF
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HOLD THE
REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS MORE
RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SHUTDOWN,
MORE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS FIGHT,
AND THE UNFAVORABLE RATINGS FOR
THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAVE GONE
UP.
WOULD IT NOT HYPOTHETICALLY HAVE
BEEN A BETTER PLAN AND OBVIOUSLY
THIS IS 20/20 HINDSIGHT, BUT TO
NOT WAGE THE FIGHT, LET THE
OBAMA CARE WEBSITES LAUNCH AND
SPUTTER ALONG UNSUCCESSFULLY,
AND MAKE THE ARGUMENTS ABOUT HOW
THEY ARE JUST A SYMPTOM OF THE
PROBLEM, ET CETERA.
NOT HAVE 400,000 PEOPLE
FURLOUGHED, NOT HAVE PEOPLE WHO
NEED VETERANS BENEFITS OR WIC
FUNDS FOR THEIR BABIES DEPRIVED
OF THOSE OR BEING AFRAID OF
BEING DEPRIVED OF THOSE AND
YOU'RE IN A BETTER POSITION TO
MAKE AN ARGUMENT AGAINST OBAMA
CARE.
>> THE HOUSE PASSED PLENTY OF
BILLS THAT DID ALL OF THAT BUT
DIDN'T FUND OBAMA CARE.
THEY WERE DOING THEIR BEST TO
KEEP THE BILLS TO KEEP THE PARKS
OPEN, NIH FUNDING GOING.
>> I UNDERSTAND THE PIECEMEAL
FUNDING ARGUMENT AND I
UNDERSTAND BOTH SIDES, BUT
STRATEGY WISE, COULD NAT THOUGHT
HAVE BEEN A BETTER IDEA?
>> YOU'RE ARTICULATING A
FANTASTIC ARGUMENT FOR A
REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST.
WHAT THIS MOVEMENT IS ABOUT IS
MORE ABOUT PRINCIPLE, THE
LONG-TERM NIGHT.
REPUBLICANS GOING TO HAVE TO
ANSWER FOR WHAT THE BEST
STRATEGY IS FOR REPUBLICANS.
WHAT YOU HAVE PEOPLE LIKE MIKE
LEE AND TED CRUZ FIGHTING FOR IS
WHAT IS GOING TO BE GOOD FOR THE
LONG-TERM OF THE COUNTRY.
>> HINDSIGHT IS 20/20.
I WANT TO LOOK AHEAD TO THE
FUTURE.
TO BOTH OF YOU, LET'S SAY THIS
DEAL IS ADOPTED.
THEY WOULD HAVE TO SET UP THIS
POWERFUL CONFERENCE COMMITTEE
AND THE ISSUES THEY WOULD
TACKLE, LONG-TERM TAX AND
SPENDING REFORM.
PICTURE SPEAKER BOEHNER AND
LEADER McKCONNELL.
DO YOU THINK THEY WILL PICK TEA
PARTY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS TO SIT
ON THIS PARTICULAR COMMITTEE?
DO YOU THINK AT THAT POINT
THEY'RE GOING TO SAY, YOU GOT US
INTO THIS MESS?
YOU'RE IN TIME-OUT?
>> SAL, TO YOU.
>> YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK THE BIG
PROBLEM IS, YOU KNOW, SOME OF
THE REPUBLICAN PUNDITS AND
ESTABLISHMENT PEOPLE HAVE SAID,
WELL, DEFUND OBAMA CARE ISN'T
THE FIGHT.
WE SHOULD WAIT FOR THE DEBT
CEILING FIGHT, OR NOW THEY'RE
SAYING WE SHOULD WAIT AND
NEGOTIATE AFTER THE DEBT CEILING
FIGHT.
THE PROBLEM IS THAT WE HAVE
SPENT FIVE YEARS NEGOTIATING.
WE'VE GOTTEN NOTHING OUT OF
OBAMA.
HE'S BEEN UNWILLING TO
NEGOTIATE.
HE'S UNWILLING TO TRY TO FIX
SOME OF THE PROBLEMS.
>> I'M NOT ASKING ABOUT OBAMA
NEGOTIATING.
LET ME JUMP BACK IN WITH REGARD
TO THE SPECIFIC COMMITTEE.
WILL THE TEA PARTY, WILL YOU
HAVE A VOICE ON THIS COMMITTEE
BECAUSE YOU'RE THE SIDE, IT
LOOKS LIKE IN THE END, THAT LOST
THIS FIGHT?
>> I REALLY DO HOPE WE HAVE A
VOICE IN THERE.
IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT WHAT
GENERALLY COMES OUT OF THESE
NEGOTIATIONS, ARE CUTS 30 YEARS
FROM NOW.
30 YEARS FROM NOW, I'M GOING TO
BE LOOKING AT RETIRING.
WE NEED CUTS IN THE GOVERNMENT
NOW.
WE'RE $17 TRILLION IN DEBT.
WE'RE BORROWING NEARLY A
TRILLION A YEAR.
WE CAN'T KEEP KICKING THE CAN
DOWN THE ROAD.
>> OKAY.
>> WE HAVEN'T ACHIEVED ANYTHING
IN FIVE YEARS.
THE ONLY THING WE HAVE ACHIEVED
IS A SEQUESTER WHICH WAS A
STUPID IDEA OF OBAMA'S THAT
ACTUALLY TOOK EFFECT BECAUSE
NOBODY THOUGHT IT WOULD TAKE
EFFECT.
SO I'M VERY PESSIMISTIC THAT
NEGOTIATIONS WITH THIS PRESIDENT
ARE GOING TO GET ANYWHERE.
>> I HEAR YOUR PESSIMISM AND I
KNOW A LOT OF AMERICANS SHARE
THE VIEW, AND SAL ANDANDUM, WE