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JESSICA DESVARIEUX: Welcome to The Real News Network. I'm Jessica Desvarieux in Baltimore.
On Tuesday, Egyptian police raided a Cairo Islamist stronghold looking for suspects in
the killing of five policemen. And the day before, an Egyptian court ordered a ban on
all Muslim Brotherhood activities and froze its assets. This is the latest push against
the Brotherhood since the ouster of Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi.
Now joining us to discuss all this is Mohamed Elmeshad. He is a Cairo-based independent
journalist who wrote for Egypt Independent.
Thanks for being with us, Mohamed.
MOHAMED ELMESHAD: Thanks, Jessica.
DESVARIEUX: So, Mohamed, we have dozens of Muslim Brotherhood senior figures who have
been detained for inciting violence, and we have hundreds of people who've demanded Morsi's
reinstatement, most of them Brotherhood members who have been killed in clashes with security
forces, and they've been portraying this crackdown as being against terrorism. Now with this
latest ban on the Muslim Brotherhood, does this really come as much of a surprise for
you?
ELMESHAD: Well, no, Jessica. To be honest, I was waiting for when this would happen.
However, this ban, I mean, you need to look at it more closely, because it seems like
from a lot of perspectives, including very anti-Muslim Brotherhood perspectives, that
legally it probably won't stand the test of time, I mean, won't stand at least a bunch
of legal tests. [incompr.] the very prominent constitutional judge, came out yesterday--very
prominent, actually, old-school constitutional judge who is very anti-Muslim Brotherhood--came
and said that he doesn't know how this court thought it had the jurisdiction to actually
issue this ban, and he thinks that it will be canceled, it will be annulled, the ruling.
However, looking at, actually, the general trajectory of things, it's not surprising
at all that the Muslim Brotherhood would be banned, there would be an attempt to ban them
to juridically, because what's one of the first things that the interim prime minister
said is that--Hazem Al Beblawi, is that along with the minister of social solidarity, which
looks into the NGO statuses in general, they would review the legal status of the Muslim
Brotherhood, which we have to remember was only existent for about a year. They only
registered as a legal entity last year. They have been an illegal entity for over the past--around
60 years, since 1954, some say since 1949, when it's founder, Hassan al-Banna, was shot.
DESVARIEUX: So you're saying that they were already considered to be illegal. So this
decision, do you think it's going to really weigh in on this whole political debate happening
in this country? Is this going to further polarize the two sides?
ELMESHAD: Well, the point was they were considered illegal before the past year. What happened
since the Revolution, since the January 25 Revolution, was that the Brotherhood were
trying to establish themselves legally. So initially what happened was they formed the
political arm of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is the Freedom and Justice Party, which they
insist is not officially attached to the Brotherhood and which their leaders say shouldn't even
be considered as part of this ruling. And then they instated themselves as a civil society
group, an NGO. And that's where the ruling comes in is that these groups, which--Egypt
has one of the most stringent NGO laws in the Middle East. They're not allowed to have
any sort of political affiliation. And there's also a lot of regulations that have to do
with the funding. So they claim that this group is engaged in politics.
As for the polarization, the polarization is increasing outside of all of this, outside
of all of the legal proceedings. If you--a quick look at the meeting has--and if you
look at any sort of private station, on the top left or right corner of any screen you'll
see, in English letters, usually, Egypt fighting terrorism. The narrative being portrayed in
almost all media outlets, all sanctioned media outlets, is that that the Muslim Brotherhood
is a terrorist organization and that what's happening now is a struggle for the identity
of what it is to be Egyptian. And if you look at the majority of the media outlets, it's
that the Brotherhood and its members at its supporters are not Egyptian. And so the level
of--like, the grassroots polarization is happening on a totally different--sort of using completely
different schematics.
As for, you know, whether or not their legal status will affect their position, I mean,
I don't think [incompr.] they've been illegal for the past--like we were saying, for over
60 years, and its members are used to working in the shadows. They actually--you know, arguably,
that's when they thrive and that's when they garner the most amount of political support.
So maybe it'll increase sympathy.
But I doubt that people in general, I doubt that the streets in general are at a point
where they're sympathizing for the Brotherhood because of their legal status. I think any
sympathy they're gaining or any of the polarization is whether or not the crackdowns that are
happening against its members and whether or not the killings that happened in the streets
were sanctioned, were in any way in tune with the basic human rights that we hope would
have been more fine-tuned in the Egyptian police force over the past period but were
obviously not. So that's where I think the streets and activists are getting polarized.
DESVARIEUX: Okay. Just really quickly, Mohamed, do you see the majority of Egyptians actually
backing the military in all of this? Are they buying this what you called propaganda that
the Muslim Brotherhood is a terrorist organization and things of that nature? What do you make
of all that?
ELMESHAD: Well, what I make of it is--I mean, this will take, like, more of a psychoanalyst.
But I think that Egyptians now are actually grappling with this concept of fear and this
fear of the unknown and where we're going as a country. If you see--the Columbia University
study showed Egypt as one of the most unhappiest countries in the world. I think they rank,
like, 130 out of 150. So this concept of, like, a sort of a downward spiral--the economy
has been in shambles, hasn't looked up at all since 2011. The, I mean, politics, we
all see what's happening in politics, the divisions. Morsi--the Muslim Brotherhood had
a heavy hand in promoting sort of sectarianism. Morsi allied himself with groups that have
actually terrorized (in ways that they admitted) the Egyptians over the past few years.
So the immediate aftereffect of Morsi's overthrow and the demonstrations that happened indicate
that yes, Egyptians are buying into the military narrative and the narrative that what's happening
now is for the best of the country, is for the betterment of the country and for national
unity. However, as time progressives, you see a lot of the people who want Morsi out,
a lot of the activists--I wouldn't say on a grassroots level, but a lot of the activists
are starting to come out and speak about how this actually--this negates everything that
Egypt and many of the people who engaged in the January Revolution were fighting for,
which is basic human rights for all, which is a more inclusive method of engaging in
politics.
DESVARIEUX: Okay, just hang tight. We're going to have an extended version of this interview
if our viewers are interested in watching it, and we'll be talking about the relationship
between Saudi Arabia and Qatar in all of this and get into, of course, more American foreign
policy.
Thank you so much for joining us, Mohamed.
ELMESHAD: Thanks a lot, Jessica.
DESVARIEUX: And thank you for joining us on The Real News Network.