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"REDEFINING REALNESS, MY PATH TO
WOMANHOOD, IDENTITY LOVE AND SO
MUCH MORE."
JANET REJOINS ME NOW.
I BROUGHT YOU BACK ON THE SHOW.
CARDS ON THE TABLE.
I HAVE SPENT AN INFURIATING 24
HOURS.
AND I WANT YOU TO EXPLAIN WHY
I'VE HAD TO GO THROUGH THIS.
BECAUSE LET ME START FROM THIS
PREMISE.
I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN 100%
SUPPORTIVE OF ALL GAY RIGHTS,
GAY MARRIAGE RIGHTS, TRANSGENDER
RIGHTS.
IN FACT, I WANT EQUALITY FOR
EVERYONE.
IN AMERICA AND AROUND THE WORLD.
THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN MY POSITION.
ANYONE THAT WATCHES THIS SHOW
KNOWS THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'VE
ALWAYS STOOD FOR.
I HAD YOU ON THE SHOW.
YOU WROTE A POWERFUL BOOK.
I DID NOTHING BUT LAUD YOUR
COURAGE.
I SAID YOU WERE A FANTASTIC
PERSON TO BE OUT THERE CENTER
STAGE, SELLING THE MESSAGE THAT
THERE'S NO NEED TO STIGMATIZE
TRANSGENDER PEOPLE.
I CALLED YOU A WOMAN THROUGHOUT
THE INTERVIEW.
I NEVER DISPUTED THE FACT THAT
YOU'RE A WOMAN.
AND YET TODAY I HAVE SPENT
LITERALLY 12 HOURS BEING
VICIOUSLY ABUSED BY THE
TRANSGENDER COMMUNITY, EGGED ON
BY YOUR OWN TWEETING LAST NIGHT
THAT YOU WERE SOMEHOW VERY
DISMAYED BY THE WAY THE
INTERVIEW HAD GONE.
NOW, I WAS SURPRISED.
BECAUSE YOU NEVER SAID ANYTHING
DURING THE INTERVIEW TO INDICATE
YOU WERE REMOTELY DISMAYED.
AT THE END OF THE INTERVIEW YOU
WERE VERY CORDIAL.
WE SHOOK HANDS.
I ASK YOU TO EXPLAIN TO ME WHY
YOU DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING DURING
THE INTERVIEW.
WHY YOU SEEMED QUITE HAPPY WITH
IT AFTERWARD.
WHY YOU THEN FELT THE NEED TO
TWEET QUITE HOSTILE TWEETS IN MY
DIRECTION WHICH THEN SPARKED
THIS FURY AMONG THE TRANSGENDER
COMMUNITY.
BECAUSE I FEEL PRETTY PEEVED
ABOUT IT.
>> WELL, I'M SORRY THAT YOU FEEL
OFFENDED.
I THINK FA THAT PEOPLE IN THE
TRANSCOMMUNITY FEEL EQUALLY AS
OFFENDED.
I THINK ONE OF THE NUMBER ONE
THINGS WITH TRANS, WOMEN
SPECIFICALLY, SO MUCH OF OUR
LIVES ARE OPEN TO DISSECTION AND
ILL LEGITIMACY AND
INVESTIGATION.
AND WE'RE CONSTANTLY QUESTIONED
EVER SINCE WE'RE VERY YOUNG THAT
WHO WE ARE IS INCORRECT, WRONG
AND SHOULD BE KEPT SECRET.
AND I THINK THAT BEING SOMEONE
THAT IS VERY VISIBLE AND IN A
STIGMATIZED COMMUNITY, I AM A
TRANSWOMAN OF COLOR.
I'M A YOUNG WOMAN.
AND ARE ISSUES THAT I
THINK WE NEED TO GIVE
TRANSPEOPLE SPACE TO TELL THEIR
OWN STORIES.
WE SHOULD FOLLOW THE LEAD OF
PEOPLE WHO ARE OUT THERE AND
BEING VISIBLE AND ADVOCATING FOR
THESE RATES.
>> RIGHTS.
>> THAT'S WHY I HAD YOU ON THE
SHOW, PROMOTED YOUR BOOK, TOLD
EVERYBODY TO GO AND READ THE
DAMN THING.
SO I ASK YOU AGAIN, WHY HAVE I
BEEN VILIFIED FOR BEING
TRANSPARENTLY SUPPORTIVE OF YOU?
I DON'T GET IT.
>> MAYBE YOU DON'T GET IT
BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT A TRANSWOMAN.
TRANSWOMEN ARE --
>> EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT I DID
WRONG.
WHAT DID I DO WRONG?
>> SO BEFORE COMMERCIAL BREAK,
WE HAD A LOVELY CONVERSATION AND
THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU SAID,
WHO WAS FORMERLY A MAN.
I WAS A BABY.
I WAS ASSIGNED MALE GENDER
BECAUSE OF THE APPEARANCE OF MY
GENITALS.
AS I GREW UP, I DISCOVERED MY
GIRLHOOD.
I DISCOVERED MY WOMANHOOD.
AND I PROCLAIMED MYSELF FOR
MYSELF AS AUDREY LORD SAYS.
>> WHY DIDN'T YOU CORRECT ME AT
THE TIME?
>> I DID NOT BECAUSE I WAS
SCARED.
>> IF YOU FEEL THAT STRONGLY.
>> I DID NOT BECAUSE I WAS
SCARED.
>> SCARED OF WHAT?
>> I WANTED TO BE A CORDIAL
GUEST.
I THINK THAT WAS INCORRECT OF
ME.
I WAS APPRECIATIVE OF HAVING TWO
SEGMENTS ON A MAINSTREAM SHOW.
IT WAS MY FIRST MAJOR APPEARANCE
AS A YOUNG TRANSWOMAN WHO WROTE
HER FIRST BOOK.
>> I THOUGHT YOU WERE TERRIFIC
BY THE WAY.
[ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ]
>> I LOVE YOU TOLD ME I LOOKED
LIKE BEYONCE', YOU SAID ALL
THESE AMAZING THINGS.
BUT I THINK THAT ALSO BEING
OFFENSIVE AND BEING KIND ARE NOT
MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE THINGS.
I THINK THAT WE CAN COMPLETELY
HAVE GREAT INTENTIONS AND BE
GOOD PEOPLE BUT ALSO BE IGNORANT
AND HAVE A LACK OF UNDERSTANDING
ABOUT THESE ISSUES.
A LOT OF THESE THINGS ESPECIALLY
FOR TRANSWOMEN ARE ABOUT
UNDERSTANDING.
INTENTION IS GREAT BUT WE ALSO
NEED ACTION.
>> LET ME CUT TO THE QUICK ABOUT
WHY PERHAPS CONFUSION HAS ARISEN
NOT JUST IN MY MIND BUT IN MANY
PEOPLE'S MINDS.
YOU ARE FAMOUS IN AMERICA NOW.
PREDOMINANTLY FROM A PIECE YOU
WROTE FOR THE MARIE CLAIRE
MAGAZINE IN 2011.
>> I DIDN'T WRITE THAT PIECE.
>> IT'S A FIRST PERSON PIECE BY
YOU.
>> I DIDN'T CHOOSE THE TITLE
JUST LIKE I DID NOT CHOOSE THE
TITLE ON THE TITLE CARDS
UNDERNEATH MY NAME IN THE
SEGMENT OR THE TWEETS THAT WENT
OUT FROM THE SHOW.
>> OKAY.
I DON'T WANT THIS TO BE A
HOSTILE ENCOUNTER.
>> I DON'T, EITHER.
>> I STILL ACTUALLY GREATLY
ADMIRE YOU.
I JUST WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR.
>> I APPRECIATE THAT.
>> HOWEVER, THIS IS THE PIECE I
GOT IN FRONT OF ME, THE PIECE
THAT MADE YOU FAMOUS.
THE HEADLINE IS "I WAS BORN A
BOY."
RIGHT?
NOW, MAYBE YOU DIDN'T WRITE THE
HEADLINE.
SO I READ THE PIECE.
YOU TALK ABOUT GOING THROUGH
GENDER REASSIGNMENT SURGERY, A
SEX CHANGE.
"THOUGH I HAD BEEN BORN A BOY TO
MY NATIVE HAWAIIAN MOTHER, THE
NEXT DAY THERE WERE ONLY DOLLS
OKAY FOR ME, A BOY, TO PLAY
WITH.
AND THEN ANOTHER REFERENCE HERE
ON THE LAST PAGE SOMETHING ABOUT
MY PATH -- CONVERSATION WITH
AARON WHO'S YOUR BOYFRIEND.
I CALMLY SAID "I WAS BORN A
BOY."
SO I CAN KIND OF GIVE YOU THAT
YOU WEREN'T WRITING THE
HEADLINES, DO YOU REALLY EXPECT
ME TO BELIEVE IN A PIECE THAT
YOU PERSONALLY SIGNED OFF ON
THAT MADE YOU FAMOUS IN WHICH
YOU REPEATEDLY CALL YOURSELF A
BOY --
>> I DID NOT WRITE THAT PIECE,
PIERS.
I ALSO WROTE A FOLLOWUP PIECE
ESSAY CRITIQUING THAT JUST LIKE
I CRITIQUED THAT EPISODE.
>> I READ THAT.
>> IN THE BOOK IN THE
INTRODUCTION OF MY BOOK I TALK
ABOUT HOW THAT PIECE WAS SO
PROBLEMATIC.
IT'S PROBLEM THEATIC WE DON'T L
TRANSWOMEN SAY WHO THEY ARE.
WE NEED TO FOLLOW TRANSWOMEN AND
LET THEM SAY WHO THEY ARE AND
BELIEVE THEM WHEN THEY SAY THAT.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT TWITTER.
THAT'S WHY I WAS NOT ENGAGING
TODAY IN THE DEBATE.
I CONTINUE TO MOVE FORWARD AND
TRY TO CONTINUE TO MAKE THIS A
POSITIVE EXPERIENCE.
I WANT THIS TO BE A LEARNING
EXPERIENCE.
I WANT ALLIES LIKE YOU AND
SUPPORTERS LIKE YOU TO CONTINUE
TO SUPPORT US AND TO CONTINUE TO
GIVE US SPACE ON YOUR SHOW.
>> RIGHT.
>> I DON'T WANT OTHER PEOPLE TO
BE AFRAID.
THESE ARE TOUCHY ISSUES.
THEY'VE BEEN AROUND SINCE THE
1950s.
>> LET ME SAY SOMETHING.
I DO SUPPORT YOU.
I COULDN'T HAVE MADE THAT ANY
MORE CRYSTAL CLEAR YESTERDAY.
I CONTINUE TO SUPPORT YOU.
I'VE ALWAYS BEEN SUPPORTIVE OF
ALL GAY RIGHTS, GAY MARRIAGE
RIGHTS, EQUALITY.
>> GAY RIGHTS ARE NOT
TRANSGENDER RIGHTS.
>> I JUST CAME TO TRY -- I WAS
ABOUT TO SAY TRANSGENDER.
I WAS HALFWAY THROUGH THE WORDS.
>> GAY RIGHTS AND TRANSRIGHTS
ARE NOT THE SAME THINGS.
>> I DIDN'T SAY THEY WERE.
I DIDN'T SAY THEY WERE.
I'M SIMPLY SAYING I BELIEVE IT
EQUALITY FOR ALL, WHETHER YOU'RE
GAY, TRANSGENDER, WHATEVER.
I DON'T CARE.
I'VE ALWAYS BEEN COMPLETELY
SUPPORTIVE.
>> THAT'S GREAT.
>> WHEN I READ A PIECE IN MARIE
CLAIRE, A PRESTIGIOUS MAGAZINE,
YOU SPENT A LOT OF TIME POSING
FOR PICTURES WITH THE
JOURNALIST, A LOT OF TIME IN HER
SHE APPEARS AFTER ALL THIS TIME
SHE SPENT WITH YOU THIS
JOURNALIST TO BE LABORING UNDER
THE MASSIVE MISAPPREHENSION THAT
YOU HAVE REPEATEDLY REFERRED TO
YOURSELF AS HAVING BEEN A BOY
WHO THEN WENT THROUGH GENDER
REASSIGNMENT SURGERY AND BECAME
A WOMAN.
NOW, THAT IS PERHAPS WHERE THE
CONFUSION LAY.
BECAUSE THAT'S THE ORIGINAL
PIECE THAT SPARKED ALL THE
ATTENTION ABOUT.
>> THAT PIECE SHOULD NOT HAVE
BEEN THE BASIS OF OUR INTERVIEW
THOUGH, PIERS.
I WROTE THE RECORD OF MY LIFE.
I WROTE IT.
I TOOK ME THREE YEARS TO WRITE
THAT.
IT TOOK ME YEARS TO BE THE FIRST
PERSON IN MY FAMILY TO GO TO
COLLEGE, TO BE ABLE TO HAVE
ACCESS TO THOSE RESOURCES AND TO
WRITE THIS BOOK AND TO LIVE MY
LIFE.
AND MY ENTIRE LIFE I'VE BEEN
TOLD THAT WHO I AM IS WRONG AND
SHOULD BE KEPT SILENT.
AND SO FOR ME, THAT MARIE CLAIRE
PIECE IS NOT THE BASIS OF MY
LIFE.
MY LIFE IS IN "REDEFINING
REALNESS" THIS BOOK THAT IS A
GIFT.
NOT FOR ME.
IT'S A GIFT TO YOUNG GIRLS LIKE
ME GROWING UP SO THAT THEY CAN
KNOW THAT WHO THEY ARE IS REAL
AND LEGITIMATE AND THAT THEY'RE
VALUABLE AND WORTHY.
>> JANET, I DON'T DISPUTE -- WE
HAVE A MOMENT THERE OF ABSOLUTE
AGREEMENT.
I DON'T DISPUTE ANYTHING THAT
YOU'VE JUST SAID.
I SIMPLY ASK THAT IF I'M BEING
VILIFIED FOR REPEATING SOMETHING
FROM THE VERY START OF YOUR
MEDIA PROFILE IF YOU LIKE HAS
BEEN --
>> WHICH I CRITIQUED IN THE
OPENING OF MY BOOK.
>> YOU'VE MADE THAT VERY CLEAR.
>> TEN PAGES IN I CRITIQUED THAT
PAGE.
>> HERE IS MY POINT.
EXPLAIN TO ME.
LET ME LEARN SOMETHING HERE.
EXPLAIN TO ME WHY IT IS SO
OFFENSIVE FOR SOMEBODY LIKE YOU
WHO GREW UP A BOY UNTIL YOU WERE
INTO YOUR TEENAGE YEARS AND YOUR
FAMILY TREATED YOU AS A BOY AND
YOU WERE BIOLOGICALLY A BOY THAT
YOU THEN HAVE GENDER
REASSIGNMENT SURGERY AND YOU
BECOME A WOMAN AND YOU'VE ALWAYS
FELT YOU'RE A WOMAN.
ACE SAID RIGHT OFF THE TOP LAST
NIGHT, YOU HAVE ALWAYS FELT
INSIDE YOU THAT YOU WERE A
FEMALE.
AND I DID NOT DISPUTE THAT AT
ALL.
AND I DON'T DISPUTE IT TO YOU
NOW.
I HAVE ABSOLUTE RESPECT FOR YOU
BELIEVING THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN
YOUR GENDER.
BUT I ALSO BELIEVE THAT THE
PHRASE "GENDER REASSIGNMENT"
MEANS THAT YOU HAD A SEX CHANGE
OPERATION.
IT MEAN THAT IS YOU GO FROM MALE
TO FEMALE OR FEMALE TO MALE.
THAT IS THE LEGAL DEFINITION OF
GENDER REASSIGNMENT.
>> I THINK THAT GENDER IS A LOT
MORE COMPLEX.
>> LET ME ASK YOU THE QUESTION.
THE QUESTION IS, HERE'S WHERE I
WANT TO LEARN.
BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THIS TO BE
AN ONGOING ISSUE THAT I HAVE
WITH THE COMMUNITY IN WHICH YOU
ARE SUCH A GREAT SPOKESMAN AND
ADVOCATE.
I WANT TO LEARN WHY IT IS SO
OFFENSIVE TO ACTUALLY JUST SAY
THAT YOU GREW UP AS A BOY AND
YOU THEN -- BECAUSE YOU'VE
ALWAYS FELT THAT YOU WERE FEMALE
YOU HAD SURGERY TO BECOME A
WOMAN, TO BECOME A REAL WOMAN AS
YOU SAY IN THE BOOK.
WHY IS IT OFFENSIVE?
>> I THINK THAT WE NEED TO HAVE
A DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT GENDER
IS.
AND GENDER EXPECTATIONS IN OUR
CULTURE.
I THINK THAT WE ARE BORN AND WE
ARE ASSIGNED A SEX AT BIRTH.
THAT IS A MATTER NONE OF US HAVE
CONTROL OVER.
BUT WE DO HAVE CONTROL OVER OUR
DEFEND
DEFENDANT IS IN AND /* /*
DESTINIES AND IDENTITIES.
WE SHOULD BE RESPECTED.
IT'S NOT ABOUT WHAT SURGERIES I
MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE HAD, NOT
ABOUT HOW I DISCLOSE MY GENDER
TO PEOPLE.
IT'S ABOUT WHO I AM RIGHT NOW.
I'M JANET MOCK, AUTHOR OF
"REDEFINING REALNESS" A FIERCE
TRANSADVOCATE.
THAT'S WHAT I WAS ON THIS SHOW
TO DO.
IF I SPOKE OUT EVERY SINGLE TIME
THAT SOMEONE SAID CALLED ME OUT
OF MY NAME OR LABELLED ME AS
SOMETHING THAT I'M NOT I WOULD
NOT HAVE TIME TO ADVOCATE FOR
THE FIERCE AND URGENT ISSUES IN
MY COMMUNITY.
ISSUES OF POVERTY AND
JOBLESSNESS, OF A LACK OF HEALTH
CARE, OF VIOLENCE, VERBAL AND
PHYSICAL VIOLENCE AGAINST
TRANSWOMEN.
>> HOW DOES IT HELP YOU, JANET,
THAT SOMEBODY LIKE ME WHO HAS
BEEN SUCH AN OPEN SUPPORTER OF
THE COMMUNITY THAT YOU REPRESENT
SO WELL AND SO PUBLICLY, THAT
YOU TARGET ME FOR WHAT YOU KNEW
WOULD BE A LOAD OF ABUSE THAT
THEN FOLLOWED?
YOU DID.
THE TWEETS LAST NIGHT IGNITE ADD
F
FIRESTORM OF ABUSE AND VILLE
FICCATION MY WAY.
YOU SAID I HAD SENSATIONALIZED
YOUR STORY.
I WAS NOT FORMERLY A MAN OR A
BOY.
NOT A TWEET YOU SAID.
>> I SENT THREE TWEETS.
>> BUT JANET, THEY WERE
IMPORTANT TWEETS TO ME.
AND IMPORTANT TWEETS TO --
>> I TWEETED THEM AT THE
FRAMEWORK OF YOUR SHOW AND HOW
THEY WERE PACKAGING THIS STORY
THAT WE DID.
OUR EXCHANGE WAS COMPLETELY
FINE.
BUT WHEN YOU PACKAGE SOMETHING
WITH THE HEADLINE "UNTIL 18 WAS
A BOY" AND ALSO SAY "FORMERLY A
MAN" WHEN IN TALK ABOUT MY
BELOVED, THE LOVE OF MY LIFE AND
OUR INTERACTION TOGETHER, THAT
IS FALSE ADVERTISING.
AND THAT IS INFOTAINMENT.
>> WHAT IS FALSE ABOUT --
>> PEOPLE WHO WORKED AT PEOPLE
MAGAZINE, I UNDERSTAND THAT
SENSATIONALIZING OUR STORIES
ENTICES PEOPLE TO LOOK IN.
[ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ]
>> JANET, WITH THE GREATEST OF
RESPECT, AND I MEAN WITH THE
GREATEST OF RESPECT, YOU'VE
WRITTEN A BOOK "REDEFINING
REALNESS, MY PATH TO WOMANHOOD."
MY PATH TO WOMANHOOD, IDENTITY,
LOVE AND SO MUCH MORE.
I'VE GOT THE MARIE CLAIRE
ARTICLE THAT STARTED YOUR WHOLE
MEDIA PROFILE.
"I WAS BORN A BOY" REPEATEDLY IN
YOUR WORDS SAYING --
>> I DID NOT WRITE THAT PIECE.
I'M A WRITER.
WORDS ARE PRECIOUS.
>> LET ME ASK YOU A SIMPLE
QUESTION.
>> I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU A
QUESTION.
>> OKAY.
CAN I ASK MINE FIRST AND YOU CAN
ASK YOURS.
MY QUESTION IS SIMPLY THIS.
DO YOU DISPUTE THAT YOU WERE
BORN A BOY?
>> DO I DISPUTE THAT I WAS BORN
A BOY?
I WAS BORN A BABY WHO WAS
ASSIGNED MALE AT BIRTH.
I DID NOT IDENTIFY OR LIVE MY
LIFE AS A BOY.
AS SOON AS I HAD ENOUGH AGENCY
IN MY LIFE TO GROW UP I BECAME
WHO I AM.
AND THIS DID NOT START AT 18
WHEN I WENT TO THAILAND TO HAVE
SURGERY.
IT STARTED WHEN I WAS SIX YEARS
OLD.
AND MY PARENTS SAW ME FOR WHO I
WAS AND ALLOWED ME TO LIVE MY
LIFE.
THAT'S A LOT OF NUANCE.
AND IT'S HARD TO COMMUNICATE
THAT IN 30 SECONDS OR EVEN
140-CHARACTER TWEET.
THAT'S WHY I'M HERE RIGHT NOW.
I WANT THIS TO BE A LEARNING AND
TEACHING MOMENT FOR ALL OF US.
THERE'S A LOT OF OF
MISUNDERSTANDING.
JUST AS YOU WERE VILLEFIED AS
YOU SAY FROM MY SUPPORTERS,
THAT'S MY COMMUNITY WHO ARE
VILLEFIED EVERY VING EL DAY AND
MISUNDERSTOOD AND DRIVEN INTO
ISOLATION AND TOLD WHO THEY ARE
IS INCORRECT AND WRONG AND
SHOULD BE UNDER INVESTIGATION.
MY QUESTION TO YOU WILL YOU
PLEASE USE YOUR PLATFORM TO
CONTINUE TO TELL OUR STORIES?
>> YES.
AS I ALWAYS HAVE DONE.
>> YES.
AND I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE COFFEE
WITH YOU AND SIT DOWN AND HAVE A
REAL CONVERSATION OFF AIR.
AND REALLY EVOLVE AND HAVE --
>> I'M SURE WE WILL DO THAT.
BUT LET ME JUMP IN I HAVE NEVER
SAID THAT YOU WERE WRONG WRONG
OR ANYONE THROUGH A TRANSGENDER
PROCESS WAS WRONG OR IN THE
WRONG PLACE OR WRONG BODY.
I HAVE NEVER USED THAT KIND OF
TERMINOLOGY.
I WOULD SEE THAT AS BEING
OFFENSIVE.
I DON'T SEE THAT AS BEING WRONG
THAT YOU WERE BORN A BOY AND
FELT YOU WERE WOMAN AND ARE NOW
A WOMAN I DON'T FEEL ANY OF THAT
IS WRONG.
AND I DON'T THINK THE
TERMINOLOGY IS OFFENSIVE.
AND I THINK MY COMPLAINT ABOUT
WHAT YOU DID WITH THOSE TWEETS,
YOU NEVER RAISED ANY OF THIS
DURING THE INTERVIEW WHERE I
REFERRED TO YOU AS HAVING BEEN
MALE BEFORE.
YOU NEVER PICKED ME UP ON IT OR
SHOWED ANY SIGN OF IRRITATION.
I THINK I JUST FELT THAT YOU
THREW ME TO THE WOLVES.
BY THE WAY, I DON'T MIND.
I'M A BIG BOY.
I CAN TAKE IT.
CANE TAKE BEING VILIFIED BY
ANYBODY.
I DON'T MIND BEING VILIFIED.
I GET IT EVERY DAY FROM PEOPLE
WHO SUPPORT THE LACK OF GUN
CONTROL IN AMERICA, RIGHT?
HOWEVER, HOWEVER, I DO THINK IT
WAS A LITTLE UNFAIR THAT YOU
SPARKED OFF IN FIRESTORM OF
ABUSE TO ME WHEN I AM A
SUPPORTER OF YOUR COMMUNITY AND
ALWAYS HAVE BEEN.
AND I THINK IT DOESN'T DO YOU OR
YOUR COMMUNITY ANY GOOD SERVICE
TO TRY AND MAKE PEOPLE LIKE ME
THE ENEMY AND THE TARGET OF
ABUSE.
AND YOU'VE READ THE TWEETS.
YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
WHEN ACTUALLY I'M ON YOUR SIDE.
>> ACTUALLY I DID NOT READ THE
TWEETS.
I COULD NOT READ ANY OF THE
TWEETS.
MY LIVED TO AND THE LIVES OF
TRANSPEOPLE CONTINUE TO BE MORE
AND MORE MISEDUCATED AND
MISINFORMED WITH TWEETS.
I THINK IT'S BIGGER THAN TWITTER
AND BIGGER THAN THIS BOOK.
THIS IS A CONVERSATION I THINK
MY COUNTRY IS GOING THROUGH A
LOT IN TERMS OF OUR CULTURE ON
TRANSISSUES AND HOW THEN DO WE
REPORT ON THESE LIVES WITHOUT
SENSATIONIZING, WITHOUT
ENTICING, WITHOUT WARNING AND
THROWING DEFINITIONS AND LABELS
ON PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE CAPACITY
AND THE KNOW HOW AND THE
EXPERIENCE TO CLAIM THEIR LIVES.
AND I THINK OUR EXCHANGE WAS
GOOD.
YOU COMPARED ME TO BEYONCE' AND
I LIVE FOR HER.
BUT IT WAS ALSO BAD IN THE SENSE
THAT IT FURTHER SHOWED OTHER
PEOPLE IN MY COMMUNITY THAT IF
JANET MOCK CAN BE MISGENDERED,
IF SHE CAN BE LABELLED SOMETHING
THAT SHE IS NOT, THEN WHAT DOES
THAT MEAN FOR ME?
AND I'M ONLY OUT HERE DOING THIS
WORK FOR THESE GIRLS THAT GREW
UP LIKE I DID.
I WANTED TO GIVE THEM A STORY
THAT REFLECTS THEM, A STORY THAT
IS SENSITIVE AND FULL OF NUANCE
AND LOVE.
>> OKAY.
JANET, I GET IT.
MY ADVICE TO YOU IN RETURN WOULD
BE --
>> I DON'T NEEDED AN ADVICE BUT
I WILL TAKE IT.
>> YOU'VE JUST GIVEN ME ADVICE I
PERHAPS ALSO DON'T FEEL I NEED.
I'VE TAKEN IT IN GOOD GRACE TO
LET ME GIVE YOU SOME ADVICE.
NEXT TIME YOU'RE DOING A BIG
HIGH PROFILE TELEVISION
INTERVIEWER AND YOU FEEL THE
INTERVIEWER IS MISCHARACTERIZING
YOUR GENDER.
MY ADVICE IS SAY SOMETHING.
DON'T PRETEND IT'S ALL GONE VERY
WELL AND SHAKE THE INTERVIEWER'S
HAND AFTERWARDS AND THANK HIM
AND THEN GO OFF FIVE DAYS LATER
AND IGNITE A SOCIAL MEDIA FIRE
SOME OF ABUSE IN HIS DIRECTION.
THAT ISN'T FAIR, EITHER.
SO I DON'T TRY AND EQUATE MY
STRUGGLE IN LIFE WITH YOURS.
THE I'VE HAD IT PRETTY EASY BY
COMPARISON.
YOUR BOOK REMAINS A GREAT,
INSPIRING BOOK.