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>>John: All right, we’re back. We’re talking with >>Sandra: Tanner, the great-great-granddaughter
of Brigham Young, the second prophet of the Mormon church. We’re talking with Dr. Lynn
Wilder who served as a tenured professor at Brigham Young University, and Michael Wilder,
her husband, who has served in the hierarchy of the Mormon church. We’re talking about
this question that we were asking of Glenn Beck, Harry Reid, Steve Young, Mitt Romney,
and others that are Mormons: Can you be a biblical Christian and at the same time be
a temple-attending Mormon? If you are a temple-attending Mormon you are
swearing on to these kinds of ideas. The prophet Joseph Smith in the Mormon church said, “you
have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same
as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another,
and from a small capacity to a great[er] one; from grace to grace, … until you … are
able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned
in everlasting power.” Bruce McConkie of the Mormon church said, "Salvation in the
celestial kingdom (that’s the top kingdom – they’ve got three kingdoms – we’ll
talk about that in a moment) is this; “… however, is not salvation by grace alone.” OK? "Salvation
in the celestial kingdom … is not salvation by grace alone. Rather, it is salvation by
grace coupled with obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel.” Talking about
the Mormon “gospel.” Now I want to know what is “general salvation” and what is
“individual salvation,” because they are different in the Mormon church?
>>Michael: General salvation, again, is the gift of resurrection to all men, all women,
whether they believe in Christ or not. It is a gift; they don’t have to work for it
because through Christ’s atonement – his death on the cross and his resurrection - it
is given to everybody.
>>John: So Muslim, Buddhist, …
>>Michael Right
>>John: … atheist, Adolf Hitler – anybody: they are in to the bottom level.
>>Michael Right. They are going to not be cast out to hell forever, just by being on
this earth. They chose to come here so there must have been some righteousness in the pre-existence.
They chose to come here and they didn’t find Christ here so they will pay a penalty.
But when they die and are resurrected, eventually they will be given to one of the three kingdoms.
>>John: So as a Mormon, when I would ask you as a Christian “do you believe in grace?”,
do you believe salvation is by grace?
>>Michael No. No, salvation is not by grace. Only the fact that grace is given as a free
resurrection. But to receive any of the higher degrees of glory – to get into the telestial
or terrestrial or the celestial world - it takes more work.