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To Ahmed Deedat.
Question: "You base your arguments on small points of the Bible. The same Bible which you believe is inaccurate."
"To me, this is a contradiction. Why do you do this? I do respect your religion, but this is a problem I can't understand."
Mr. Chairman and brethren, you see in every civilized nation on earth, people have disputes,
and when these disputes go to court, the plaintiff, the complainant, he goes into the "box"
into the witness box, and he testifies, he puts forth his claim,
and the opposing advocate, attorney, he cross examines the witness.
When he's cross examining the witness on the evidence that he has given,
and on that evidence, if he can prove to the judge's satisfaction, that the man is lying, lying, lying,
if he feels satisfied that he has convinced the judge, in his cross examination that the witness was a liar,
what he does is, he closes the case, and he asks for absolution with costs, and he will get it.
And this is normal practice, an everyday affair: dispute, you cross examine the person, and you come to a conclusion.
Now the Holy Quran tells us to do the same.
It says: Quran 2:111 {and they say}, Who? The Jews and the Christians. {"None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian."}
That you Muslims will never, never enter (paradise), there's no heaven for you, there's no salvation for you,
except (if) you become a Jew, or except (if) you become a Christian.
In answer to that, God Almighty makes us say:
Quran 2:111 {Those are their (vain) desires.} That this is their wishful thinking, vain desires, hallucination.
Quran 2:111 [Say: "Produce your proof if ye are truthful."}
Let's take a look at your certificate: that entitles you to heaven, and destines us to hell.
So they have produced it: the Bible. In 2000 different languages.
And he's saying "My Bible says this, my Bible says that", so we have to cross examine the Bible, your witnesses.
And we are proving from the mouth of your witnesses, that the thing that you are alleging, what you are saying, you are claiming, is not there.
You see, now you say, "What about the other things which are true?" I said, look, that is not at stake.
If the Bible said that "God is one", we say we agree with you.
He says I quoted you from the Bible, it said, look "Everyone is responsible for his or her action", I say we agree with you.
Can't you see? If you say, "God is a loving Father in heaven", I said, right, we agree with you.
But when you say that He's like Shylock (a loan shark), wanting to get a pound of flesh from his creation,
Adam and Eve sin, and he makes you responsible.
And, at the beginning of 1986, there were 4.8 billion people on earth,
and according to the Christian belief, that everyone goes to hell. For what? The sin that Adam and Eve committed.
So I said, this is the most nonsensical idea, because Adam didn't ask me before eating the apple, nor did Eve ask my wife.
How can God hold us responsible?
Mr. Douglas:
Question: "Matthew 12:40 says, for as Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of a huge fish,"
"so the son of man will be in 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth."
"I am a Christian, of the Church of Christ. I am confused. Please explain to me how Jesus could be in the earth 3 days and 3 nights"
[If the "time factor" was an estimate, then the "miracle of Jonah" MUST be that Jesus never died, just AS Jonah never died, even though they both appeared to]
This will be Mr. Deedat's last question.
Question: "Mr. Deedat, in the Book of Revelation, Jesus claims that 'I am the first, and the last' ",
"and also he said 'I am Alpha and Omega, and the beginning and the end'. If Christ was not God, how could he make such a claim?"
The Book of Revelation, scholars will tell you, was a dream of John.
It was a DREAM, which he has put down on paper.
These are what people hear, if at all, that if Jesus appeared to him, to John
and told him "I am Alpha and Omega", if he did, which I do not believe,
that he's talking about God Almighty, that God is saying "I am Alpha and Omega, I am the first and the last", not Jesus.
but suppose you put these words into the mouth of Jesus, according to your translations,
even then, a DREAM.
You know, people, when they eat a bit too much.
It happens, you dream dreams, things that you see. And you read this Book of Revelation,
describing to you certain beasts, with eyes outside, and eyes inside, and you know, something which absolutely,
you have eaten too much, you start thinking in those terms.
So I said, "While Jesus walked this earth". We have to now understand that while he walked this earth,
In NONE of the Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke or John, is the expression ever used, "I am God" or "Worship me".
On the contrary, he says: (John 14:28) "The Father is greater than I",
he says (John 10:29) "My Father ... is greater than all"
he says (John 5:30) "I can of my own self do NOTHING;
(John 5:30) "as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek NOT my own will, but the will of the Father which has sent me.",
he says (Mat 24:36) "of that day and hour knoweth NO man, NO, not the angels in heaven, but my Father ONLY.
In my knowledge I'm not like God, in my power I'm not like God, he says, (Mat 28:18) "all power is GIVEN unto me" it is not mine.
(Luke 11:20) "I with the finger of God cast out devils", (Mat 12:28) "by the spirit of God" do these things, where does he say that HE is doing the works?
That it is "his" power, "he" is doing it, nowhere. And Peter testified in the quotation that the Doctor gave:
Peter, in the Book of Acts, testifies: (Acts 2:22) "Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a MAN approved of God among you".
"a MAN", not God, "approved among you". "a MAN". He quoted it, but of course,
the quotation went off such, like water off a duck's back, you people hardly apprehended anything.
It says (Acts 2:22) "a MAN approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs,"
(Acts 2:22) "which GOD DID BY him". He (Jesus) didn't do it.
(Acts 2:22) "which GOD DID BY him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know". I said, look, we agree with that.
The Quran testifies to that effect, that he gave life to the dead, by God's permission, he healed those blind and the lepers, by God's permission,
We agree with that. But I said, look now, your interpretation, your reading,
YOU are "reading into" your own scripture something that is not there, and which is contrary to what Jesus claimed.
He's teaching us, he says, come, I'll teach you how to pray. (Mat 6:9) "After this manner therefore pray ye":
Say, (Mat 6:9) "OUR Father which art in heaven". "OUR" father, yours and mine, including Judas, not the "Father of Jesus Christ in heaven".
(Mat 6:9) "Hallowed by THY name". Singular. "THY" name.
(Mat 6:10) "THY kingdom come, THY will be done in earth, as it is in heaven".
Where does he say "I am God", where does he say "Worship me"? Nowhere. Nowhere.
It is something now, like I just heard on TV, the program of Jimmy Swaggart, giving some lessons on TV,
and at the end of that lesson, on Babylon, one of his panel members, he says "You know, I've been to Mongolia"
"I've just been to Mongolia". "And there" he says "I went to a Buddhist temple. And there, the supervisor while he was with me,"
"I'm asking him (about) this wheel, prayer wheel, on which (Buddhist) people are pinning on your prayers in written form"
"and you turn the wheel. What for?" (The Buddhist) says "No...now, we are asking, in this form, asking Buddha for help"
(The Christian) said, "Look, I read so many books on Buddha. NOWHERE does Buddha claim to be God. NOWHERE."
This is one of the panel members of Jimmy Swaggart (who) says:
"Nowhere (does Buddha) say that Buddha is God". He said "Nowhere"
(The Buddhist) said: "Yes, that is true, but we say he is God. We make him God"
This is the same. What (the Christian) is talking (about), laughing at the Buddhist,
I said, my brother, you are in the same boat. You are doing the very same thing.
Brothers and sisters, I want you to acknowledge, really, these 2 fine champions, 2 wonderful gentlemen,
for sharing their valuable time, and their energies with us tonight. However you want to acknowledge them. Thank you very much.