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>> >>PEGGY PICO: THE LATEST REPORTS PUT EGYPT'S DEATH TOLL AT OVER SIN 600 WITH MORE THAN
3700 INJURED. THERE JOINT TRAINING EXERCISE CANCELED, EGYPT
RECEIVES MILITARY AID FROM THE US. HERE TO HELP IS ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR FARID
ABDEL NOUR FROM THE POLITICAL SCIENCE DEPARTMENT AT SAN DIEGO STATE UNIVERSITY, WELCOME.
NOW, PROFESSOR, IT'S A DIFFICULT CONCEPT FOR WESTERNERS TO SEE HOW THE EGYPTIAN MILITARY
OUST MORSI, IS PART OF A DEMOCRATIC MOVEMENT. WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON IT?
>> >>FARID ABDEL-NOUR: THAT IS INDEED A DIFFICULT ONE.
I THINK IT'S NOT SELF EVIDENT ONE SHOULD LOOK AT IT AS A DEMOCRATIC MOVEMENT.
WHAT I THINK IS WORTH LOOKING AT IS WHY THERE WERE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ON THE STREETS DE
D MANNING THE DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED PRESIDENT LEAVE.
THERE WAS A MOVEMENT IN EGYPT THAT COLLECTED 22 MILLION SIGNATURES TO HAVE HIM REMOVED.
SO I THINK THE QUESTION THAT'S WORTH ASKING IS WHY SO MANY PEOPLE ARE REJECTING THEIR
OWN DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED CHOICE. >> >>PEGGY PICO: COULD PART OF IT BE THAT
THEY'RE NEW TO DEMOCRACY AND THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT YOU CAN JUST WAIT FOR THREE YEARS AND
DO IT THROUGH A DEMOCRATIC VOTING PROCESS? >> >>: NO, I DON'T THINK.
>> >>FARID ABDEL-NOUR: NO, I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE WAY THEY'RE THINKING ABOUT T.
THEIR UNDERSTANDING OF DEMOCRACY IS QUITE RICH.
THEY UNDERSTANDING DEMOCRACY IS NOT JUST ELECTIONS. THEY UNDERSTAND WINNING ELECTIONS IS ONLY
ONE ASPECT OF THE DEMOCRATIC IDEAL. THEY REALIZE THAT WINNING ELECTIONS IS ONLY
ONE ASPECT AND THAT'S WHAT'S NEEDED MORE IS THAT PEOPLE'S EQUAL RIGHTS AND LIBERTIES BE
PROTECTED AND SOCIAL JUSTICE BE PROVIDED. >> >>PEGGY PICO: BEFORE WE
>> >>FARID ABDEL-NOUR: IT WAS ONE YEAR. CAN I JUST CLARIFY ONE THING?
>> >>PEGGY PICO: SURE. >> >>FARID ABDEL-NOUR: EGYPT DID NOT HAVE
A CONSTITUTION WHEN MUHAMMAD MORSI WAS ELECTED. WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE OUTCOME OF AN ELECTION
WHEN THERE IS NO CONSTITUTION, IT'S A DIFFERENT STORY.
SINCE EGYPT HAD NO CONSTITUTION, THE MANDATE FOR MUHAMMAD MORSI WAS NOT THE SAME ONE THAT
HE NECESSARILY THOUGHT HE HAD. A LOT OF PEOPLE THOUGHT THEY DID NOT ELECT
HIM SO THAT HE CAN REALIZE THE PROGRAM OF HIS PARTY AND HIS MOVEMENT.
BUT HE UNDERSTOOD, AND I THINK HIS SUPPORTERS, AS A VICTORY FOR THEIR IDEOLOGY.
>> >>PEGGY PICO: LET'S GO WITH THAT. THE UNITED STATES HAS THE BILL OF RIGHTS IN
PLACE TO MAKE SURE THAT MAJORITY COULDN'T OVER POWER THE MINORITY.
DO YOU THINK A BILL OF RIGHTS COULD TAKE PLACE NOW THAT THE MILITARY IS IN CHARGE? CAN THAT
GO FORWARD FOR EGYPT? >> >>FARID ABDEL-NOUR: I DON'T KNOW, BUT THE
DEMAND FOR A CONSTITUTION THAT SAFE GUARDS BASIC RIGHTS AND LIB LIBERTIES HAS BEEN PRESENT
AMONG EGYPTIANS FOR A LONG TIME. THEY WERE MAKING THAT DEMAND IN NOVEMBER AND
DECEMBER WHEN THE CONSTITUTIONAL DRAFT WAS BEING WRITTEN.
THAT WAS RAN THROUGH THE PROCESS IN A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, WITH THE SUPPORT OF
60% OF THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED, BUT ONLY 30% TURN OUT FOR A CONSTITUTION.
IMAGINE EGYPT FROM DECEMBER UNTIL TODAY HAS BEEN LIVING UNDER A CONSTITUTION THAT HAS
BEEN SUPPORTED BY ONLY 60% OF 30% OF THE ELECTORATE. THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF DID NOT HAVE LEGITIMACY.
THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT JUSTIFIES THE MILITARY INTERVENTION, IT DOESN'T JUSTIFY THE MILITARY
TAKING OVER AND KICKING OUT THE PRESIDENT. I'M TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHY SO MANY PEOPLE WOULD
SUPPORT THE REMOVAL OF A PRESIDENT WHO WAS ELECTED TO POWER.
THEY UNDERSTAND IT VERY WELL. >> >>PEGGY PICO: LET'S TALK ABOUT THE U.S.
INVOLVEMENT. THE U.S. PROVIDES MORE THAN A MILLION DOLLARS
IN MILITARY AID. WHAT MESSAGE DOES THAT SEND TO AMERICANS AND
TO THE EGYPTIANS ON EITHER SIDE OF THIS REVOLUTION, AS YOU'RE CALLING IT?
>> >>FARID ABDEL-NOUR: THE MILITARY AID THAT THE UNITED STATES PROVIDES TO EGYPT IS PART
OF A VERY LONG STANDING RELATIONSHIP THAT'S NOW 40 YEARS OLD.
THE MILITARY CONNECTION BETWEEN EGYPT AND THE UNITED STATES IS THE ONE CONSTANT THING
THAT HAS MADE THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT VERY ASSURED NO MATTER WHICH GOVERNMENT COMES
TO POWER, THE RELATIONSHIP WITH EGYPT IS SECURE. SO THE MILITARY RELATIONSHIP WITH EGYPT IS
SECURE AND SOLID. IT'S VERY CLEAR.
I THINK EVEN IF THE $1.3 MILLION WERE TO DISAPPEAR, WHICH I DON'T THINK THEY WILL,
I THINK WE CAN BE SURE THAT RELATIONSHIP IS VERY SOLID.
>> >>PEGGY PICO: LET ME ASK YOU THIS LAST QUESTION HERE.
WE HAVE MANY SAN DIEGANS HERE CONNECTED TO EGYPT, EITHER THROUGH FAMILY, FRIENDS OR BUSINESSES.
WHAT IS YOUR ADVICE TO THEM AS FAR AS TRYING TO CONNECT OR TRAVEL TO THE REGION?
>> >>FARID ABDEL-NOUR: I DON'T KNOW HOW TO GIVE ADVICE ABOUT HOW TO TRAVEL AND CONNECT.
ONE THING I CAN SAY IS I FEEL WITH THEM, AND I FEEL WITH THIS SENSE THAT YOU SEE PARTS
OF YOUR SOCIETY BACK HOME BEING TORN APART. AND SOMETIMES IT'S NOT EASY TO PICK SIDES
IN THIS CONFLICT BECAUSE IN A SENSE YOU SEE RIGHT ON BOTH SIDES.
YOU CAN CERTAINLY SYMPATHIZE WITH THE MEMBERS OF THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD OF BEING SLAUGHTERED
TODAY, BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN ONE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THE PEOPLE WHO DEMONSTRATED ORIGINALLY AGAINST
MORSI AND AGAINST THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD ON JUNE 30 AND AFTER.
>> >>PEGGY PICO: OKAY, PROFESSOR FARID ABDEL NOUR, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A WHOLE LOT MORE
OF THIS ON OUR WEBSITE AND ALSO ON PBS NEWS HOUR TONIGHT.
>> >>FARID ABDEL-NOUR: THANK YOU.