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Public Program. Reading (England). 22 June 1982.
It was very nice to come to Reading again, and to meet very nice people like your Mayor
and another nice person who was interviewing me at the radio station. I am discovering
new talents in this place which is really historically very important.
But in the history of spirituality, England as a whole has to play a very very important
role, which perhaps English people don't realize. William Blake has said that. That England
has to become Jerusalem. It has to become a Holy land and you all have to become holy
people. He is not a liar, he would not tell you a lie. People can say that he was a visionary
and he visualized things beyond his foresight. That is not a fact, because about Sahaja
Yoga he has written very vividly, clearly, as to where are we staying since my arrival
in England, where our ashram is going to be. It is so beautifully done that I feel this
land has something special about it to produce or to create such great poets, such great
seers. India of course is a country of yoga, no doubt, but there also we had a great poet,
about the same time as Blake, maybe a little earlier, Ganeshwara, he did write about Kundalini,
he also described the times of Sahaja Yoga by saying that at that time, the people who
are in darkness, the people who are blind, will see light. He's also gone further to
say that those people who will receive light, will be able to enlighten other people. But
William Blake has very clearly said that men of God will become prophets, and these prophets
will have powers to make others prophets. And this is the test that you should put to
everyday, have I become a prophet?
I mean, it's allright there are many people who are around, who are selling their things,
I don't know what they are doing to attract more people. Like the mayor asked me that
as your work is so fantastic, you must have been receiving thousands of people. I said,
No I don't, sometimes I receive 5 or sometimes 10, he was amazed he said how can that be
and that is true, I receive very few people to come to my program, and if they come and
stick on for a while, they get their realization allright but there are very few who come.
He was quite amazed. He said, Really but I am surprised, you don't charge any money,
there is no membership, I mean it really shows that it is something divine. And still how
is it few people come to you. I said, I will ask the same question to you, because I don't
understand human beings. You better answer to me that why so few people come and take
advantage of this Sahaja Yoga which gives you the power that is lying within you, which
gives you what you have already existing within you, which is your own, it is your own property.
Still they don't come even if you tell them freely you are going to be given all your
bank balances, please come, please come, but they don't come. So I said, Instead of asking
me this question, for the first time, let me ask you this question I can't understand.
But in Indian villages, it is a different thing, where the people come in thousands.
One of the reasons may be that the people do not know much about Kundalini, they are
naïve about that and they do not know what it means by the word "Self-Realization". What
it means, what is the Self, and what should it happen to us, perhaps that may be the reason
one of a sort of ignorance about it but despite all that, this word Self Realization has been
used since long by many marketeers, and nobody has been able to give it. Now if somebody
says, yes it can happen to you, just that happens, I think there should be real interest,
but still I cannot explain why, why is it that few people come, and those who come,
also, do not stick on. They have no patience. But with other gurus? he asked me. I said
no, there are many no, thousands and thousands, there is one fellow, who the British people
have given 58 Rolls royces, and then they gave him a 59th one because he
would not come without getting a rolls royce from them. So they starved themselves for
one year, and gave him the 59th Rolls royce. And how many people must have
done it? fifty thousands people collected that money to give it to this fellow to come
down here, already now that he has 59, I think he must be waiting for the 60th. Then
I wouldn't be surprised that they will be again collecting money for him.
One must understand that you cannot pay for God. You cannot buy God by giving him Rolls
royces, he doesn't understand rolls royces, he doesn't understand money, he doesn't understand
bank. He doesn't know the mint, he doesn't know that you are having a new system, of
this paper money. He is not aware of all these things. But some of you are so much used to
these mundane things and regular things that we personally all of us feel that if it is
going to be God, he has to be just like us, there should be an organization, there should
be a chairman, there should be a vice-chairman, there has to be a secretary, and all these
organizations must be there, and there only if he go, then it is allright, we are safe,
we are secure, because we are used to it. But God's laws and God's domain is very different
from what we understand. We have never felt his love, we have been always working, all
organized things because we were unsecure about something. Every institution is for
some kind of an insecurity. Because we are insecured, we think something is going to
fall upon us, something horrible is going to happen, that is how we form a thing. Otherwise
our children may be spoilt or our old people may die, or something may happen, we form
an organization. This is not believing in God.
Secondly we form also organizations because we hate, but we have never seen the power
of Love which is the most beautiful, blissful and smoothly working. Like a flower becoming
a fruit, have you ever seen a flower becoming a fruit, nobody has seen. It's how slowly
it becomes, have you ever seen a bud opening into a flower, you have to put a slow motion
camera to catch that slow movement. All that is done by this great power of God, this divine
power which is called as Brahma in Sanskrit language. And to know that Brahma is the
idea behind Self-Realization. It is all-pervading, it is working everywhere, but we cannot feel
it and we have to feel that. And how to feel it? How to know that? The only way is to get
yourself connected with your Self which connects you to that all-pervading power and it starts
flowing through you, if you learn the ways and methods you can manoeuver it, you can
use it and you can give it to others also. It is a very simple thing like putting a connection.
Like you come in the room, if you have to put on the lights, you just have to switch
on, it is like that, it is very simple, but when you switch on the light, you must know
that there is a very huge organization behind this little switch. In the same way, behind
all this there is a very great organization of God Almighty. Which we have not known,
we have just heard about God, there is God, let us pray to God, all that. Where is he,
what is he, and what are we, we have never known that. So first time you get connected
with his power.
Now about Spirit, I mean in English language, Spirit is used for so many things, they will
use it for a dead body, it is a spirit, they will use it for also spirits, alcohols, spirit
for Atma, but where I am talking now it is about the Atma, the Spirit, which is the reflection
of God Almighty within us which is the witness. Which watches every moment, every action of
ours. And it stays there until it enjoys. To understand this Spirit, we have to know
its nature, what is the nature of the Spirit is and then when we get enlightenment, what
happens to us.
Now here you have seen three powers, as they have shown you, the first power is on the
right hand side, is the power of action, I mean the first one is the power of desire
which is on the left hand side, the second one is the power of action, and in the center
is the power of what we call the sustenance which gives you our evolution. So we have
three powers. All these three powers act within us. For example the first power of desire.
The first power of desire within us acts in such a manner that we start desiring for things.
Actually the whole universe is created, out of the universe, this beautiful thing like
human being is created. And this power that has created this special thing called human
being is the residual power that resides in the triangular bone, for the ultimate desire
to be one with the Divine. But it has not yet manifested, so that is why it is called
as a residual power. It has not yet manifested because we have not yet become one with the
Divine. So that power is still sleeping within us, that is why they call it the sleeping
Kundalini. But that desire is within us and that drives us to all kinds of seeking, we
make mistakes, we do all kinds of wrong choices, does not matter. Everything can be forgiven
but she resides in the triangular bone waiting for a chance when she could be awakened by
somebody who has the authority to awaken. As he told you just now that it is an actualization,
you cannot just go to a church, and somebody puts his hand on your head and he says allright
I have baptised you. This is only just a false certificate, you know that, it is a false
certificate. But when this power is manifested, that when you become one with the Divine,
when Yoga, the union takes place, then only we can say that Kundalini has manifested itself.
Means your desire to be one with the Divine has been manifested.
So now there are four powers I have told you about, one is the power of desire, with which
we desire other things. Like we may desire to have a chair. So what we do if there is
some steel which is dead we make another dead stuff like called a chair, which is of steel,
another dead. We sit on it, we start become habituated with this, means a part of us is
dead because we can't sit without a chair. The chair sits on our head, people carry chairs
with them, because they just can't sit without the chairs. Like that the matter starts fighting
your Spirit, and starts giving you habits. Then another thing of matter is that it never
gives you joy. For example, you want to have a table, allright, then you want to have a
chair, then you want to have a car, then you want to have a helicopter, and never (happen?).
So wants in general are never satiable; is a principle of economics. Why? Because matter
cannot give you satisfaction. That's why. It just plays with you. You like one thing,
you jump to it, you like another thing, you jump to another one. Now this matter within
us is created by the right side, that is the power that comes to us from five elements.
And these five elements, when they are not enlightened, do not give joy. They are within
us, we use them, we think by, supposing somebody thinks that if I go to race and if I win a
big amount of money I'll be happy. But you go and see the person after six months, you'll
find that he is the most unhappy person ever known because money is a headache, house is
a headache, anything that you own is a headache, it is better that other should own it and
you should enjoy. That is a better way of looking at things. But we think that possession
is something that we can really enjoy, which is not true, because we are not going to take
anything with us.
Now when these five elements act upon us, what happens to us? what do we develop?
We develop in the subtle way the attention. Say there is something, a matter here.
My attention can be drawn to it. If there is something material, my attention can be
drawn to it. But supposing something is in the ether, I cannot see, something that is
not material I cannot see it, so the attention cannot be drawn. That is how our attention
is created by these five elements, within ourselves. Now this attention that we have
naturally because it is created by the material things, in the sense that it is created by
the causal, causal of these elements, our attention goes to material things, naturally.
Because it is created by that, isn't it? Our attention is outside, if I say, put your attention
inside, how can you? I mean there is no way of putting it inside. It is an impossible
situation. Because anything that happens outside, our attention goes there, something material,
something substantial we see, and then our attention goes to that.
But how can you put your attention inside, because we are lost, we do not know where
to go, how to find it, how to put our attention inside. So this attention is within us. And
when the Kundalini rises, then the attention is drawn in, because of the happening. That's
why a happening is necessary. Supposing suddenly you are listening to me, and something falls
down, your attention will go to it. That is why a happening takes place, that this Kundalini
rises and she attracts the attention inside. But actually when she touches the Spirit,
what happens to the attention itself? The attention becomes enlightened. Now what is
that? Attention becomes enlightened, means what? Means that this attention has a light.
Now supposing you have an attention which has a light, what should happen, that you
look at anyone, you should be able to know that person in and out. That should be the
first thing, isn't it? If your attention has a light, you should be able to see through
that person just like a x-ray you should know where the problem is. Then if your attention
is enlightened, you should be able to help that person also with your attention. By being,
enlightenment means, you see enlightenment by the divine power of love. So if you pay
attention to somebody, that love must act. Otherwise it is just like any other attention,
you pay attention to this, nothing happens. You pay attention to that, nothing happens.
You pay attention to anyone, nothing happens. But when you are enlightened, then your attention
is enlightened.
And you'll find after Sahaja Yoga, if you pay attention to someone, you can cure that
person. If you have reached a certain stage of, I should say maturity in Sahaja Yoga.
Like there was one of the first Sahaja yogis in England who got his realization, who
is here I think, he was little (dumbfound?), he said Mother you said that our attention
gets enlightened, how are we to know about other people? I said, very easy. About whom
do you want to know? I want to know about my father. I said, allright, his father was
in Scotland. Put your hands and think of your father. Just think. He started a burning
here. Now these are the centers for your father, those are the centers for your mother, and
this started burning, now this finger denotes this center. So I told him he must be down
with very bad bronchitis. He said, how can there be telecommunication? This is enlightenment.
Into new world of telecommunication. I said, allright you ring up your father. He rang
up, the father never came to the phone, and his mother said, your father is down with
very bad bronchitis. Now sitting down here, you can give cure to that. Now it is not a
*** and bull story, I tell you. It is so fantastic, that people cannot believe it.
But you can. But you have to have certain maturity to do that. If your light is a little
hazy, then it does not work out. I mean, you can cure people, sitting down here, sitting
down in London, I should say, most ailment I can cure, I have done it. And some other
people have done it also. So what happens is that the attention which goes there, for
example, now our attention is dead in a way, it goes there, what happens, only thoughts
start coming to us, on the contrary this is more dominating than ourselves, because as
soon as we look at something, some thoughts start coming. I mean, you can't look at anything
without having some thoughts coming into your head. Imagine the domination of the matter
on us that everything gives us thoughts.
While, when you look at a thing when you are a Realized soul, then this attention acts,
if it is a living thing, you can see the action working on it, but if it is dead, then what
happens? Then you become thoughtless, say you see a beautiful painting, see a beautiful
painting, now there is no thoughts in your mind. So all the creation of that painting
just starts pouring in you as joy. You feel that joy just pouring into you. Because there
is no thought in between, otherwise normally we'll think who has painted this picture,
who has done this, how much they must have paid, that's first thing, first question will
be how much money it must have cost. Then second would be who is the artist. All these
questions actually paralyze the beauty, the art, the creation of that painting. Like a
wave-free surface of some lake, you can see the complete image, the reflection of the
surrounding of that lake. The complete creation, the complete joy comes to us, in the same
way you become absolutely thoughtless, you see something, and you become absolutely thoughtless,
because the joy is so complete, that you just get stunned and the whole thing starts pouring
into you, like showers of joy, is an experience which you cannot have before realization.
It is only possible after realization, that you can enjoy your attention, and it is such
a joker.
Your attention plays tricks and tells you so many things about other people. Like I
was coming and I said, now let us see this gentleman I have to meet him, let us see his
vibrations. I said now, his vibrations, this is catching. Allright, what does that mean?
Problem with his wife. Either he has no wife, or if he has a wife, it is a wrong relationship.
Or maybe there is a problem with the wife, this is wife's finger. And we discovered it
was so. What? Because I knew about it, I did not touch that point. But if you say that,
you'll have it, better not say that point you know already about the gentleman what
the full problem he has, so better not touch that point and gradually try to remove it.
Like that, it is so easy after realization, to know about others. Like a gentleman came
to see me, he was an Indian and he knew that a person who is a seeker is not supposed to
drink, when you come at least to a holy person. But he gave up his drinking for about 8 days
he did not drink, he had a bath everything and a nice mouthwash with everything and he
came and saw me, and I said you have to give up your alcohol completely. He said, Mother
how do you know this. I said, I know. Because of the centers that are catching in him, are
only possible if you are a drunkard. And I said you have been a drunkard, and that is
why it has been there. He agreed that I was; for 8 days back I gave it up. I said, 8 days
makes no difference, I know that you have been a drunkard, and you'll have to give up
that gradually. He said, I will Mother, I promise, but this is really surprising how
did I know about it?
So much so that once a lady came to see me, and I found that her right hand here was completely
charred, and this was all catching. So I asked her what is your relationship with your father,
specially this finger ? (Oh, that .. to do? unclear). Normally girls in India are very
attached to their fathers and it is a very good relationship. I said there must be something
wrong, otherwise you can't get such horrible feelings about it. Yes but, How do you know
Mother? I said, I know, you better tell. Oh no, it's allright, it's allright, we have
a good relationship, nothing wrong, this, that. I said, Really? She said, Yes, we have
no (unclear) it is perfectly allright. And she went away. I was wondering, I knew she
was telling me lies. Just after that, her mother came in, and her father. He said, Oh
that was our daughter who had come to see you. I said, Really. He said, Do you know
this girl has filed a suit against me, her father? Really? Yes, and on wrong basis, under
the advice of a very wrong person. Her husband is abroad, and some wrong person has put ideas
into her head, and she has filed a suit against me. Oh, I said, see, that's what happened.
So the attention gives you all the information when it is enlightened. It corrects the problems
and of all the things it warns you, it warns you beforehand. For a Sahaja Yogi, supposing
a Sahaja Yogi is misled, he loses the way, then it is accepted that we have to go back,
there is something wrong. And just he goes that way and he finds a thing that he has
lost for a long time, or he meets the friend whom he has to meet or some address that he
had he gets it. We don't mind getting lost or anything because you find that this was
necessary to go that way to find something.
It is so interesting and so interwoven, and sometimes you start understanding, after some
time, that there are angels who are looking after you. Definitely there are angels who
are guiding us. Every moment, they are there, and taking our attention to things which are
important. Because of Spirit's quality, to be collectively conscious, our attention itself
becomes collectively conscious. The priorities change. The priorities change so much, like
I was going in Kashmir one day, in a car, and suddenly I told my husband, there is there
tremendous vibrations in this place. So he asked the driver, he said, Is there any temple
here? He said no, it is the wilderness, there is no temple, nothing. I said, about two three
miles maybe, let us go ahead. So he said, no there is some muslim staying here, you
see there is no temple, no question of having a temple. I said, is there a mosk? Oh, he
said, yes. There is a mosk of Asrad Akbar, one hair of Mohammed Sahib is kept in that
mosk. And I felt the vibrations at least four five miles away from it. Just imagine. And
when we came about three miles, I could just tell him how to go there. And only one hair
was emitting vibrations.
So the whole priorities, the attention goes to things which have good divine vibrations.
It is not bothered about things which have no good vibrations. Whatever has good vibrations,
it will go to them. Like a person who is a holy person, he touches anything, it vibrates,
he touches water, it vibrates, anything you touch, anything you feel, it vibrates.
For example, water, if you vibrate it, it can be a medicine. River Ganges is nothing
but vibrated water. You get vibrations from that.
These vibrations are divine vibrations, are the vibrations of the power of love of God.
It is something so much out of the blue, that suddenly if you hear about these things, it
sounds quite odd and fantastic, but it is not at all to Indians, they know about all
it. This knowledge has not come to us, but in the Bible, Christ has said, that your hands
will speak. Your hands will speak. That means in your hands you will be feeling, he said
it very clearly, your hands will speak, that is what should happen to us. That our hands
should speak, but they should communicate to us what they have to communicate because
all the centers are represented in our hand. As shown there you can see all the centers
are on the left hand side and right hand side, you can see very clearly how these centers
are denoted on our hand, and once you start feeling them, if you know, if you know the
decoding of it, you can immediately say what the other person is suffering from, what you
are suffering from. And then you have to learn how to correct them those problems of the
another person.
So the first thing that happens to you that your attention becomes enlightened. This attention
is so wonderful, is so joy-giving, it is so humorous, because you become like a witness,
the whole thing becomes a joke. You see seriously people running up and down, or to do something,
and you just don't understand, and you ask them, what's the matter. Oh, you don't know,
it's very important, very important. Yes what? I put all my money to the race, allright,
and he comes back, head down, what happened? I lost all my money. The way he was running,
the way he is coming back, it's a big joke, you know. But to him, it's not, he becomes
serious, sometimes he becomes involved into in, sometimes he let it, but you are just
enjoying the whole joke, the whole tragedy and comedy of life. You enjoy like a spectator.
You become the spectator, you are no more worried, upset or intentioned. Actually I
have seen people who are very hot tempered become so placid and so sweet and so poised.
It's surprising how they change because they have got the balancing point, the absolute
point. This is what happens to your attention when you get realization.
But then what happens to your awareness which you get from the central path of your evolution?
For example animals have an awareness, also, we have an awareness. We have awareness much
higher than that of animals. Some people say yes we can play tennis you see. That's a higher
awareness than animals. But some people cannot play tennis or understand it. But one awareness
human beings have, definitely, whatever they may be, at whatever's level, that they understand
what is dirty, what is filthy, they can smell it. Animals can't. They pass, you take a horse
or a dog through a dirty length, it will just walk as if it is leading a parade for the
queen, you see. It has no problem, but for human beings we just can't do it, we have
to put something to cover our nose. So like that, we have many other things, which we
have achieved as human beings, we have sense of color, we have sense of beauty, we have
sense of balance, we have so many things which dogs may not have, horses may not have, dolphins
may not have, they are so close to us, they live with us, but they may not have those
senses as we have.
But now what happens to human awareness? At this stage is, that this human awareness suddenly
jumps up into a new dimension. That you become collectively conscious, you become again,
I say it is an actualization, it happens to your awareness. You just become collectively
conscious. Means, little children, today Olympia you see, she was interviewing me, she came
and she put her fingers in her ears, you see because, the lady who was talking to me had
a problem in her throat. Perhaps maybe she has to use her throat too much also, or maybe
something else. So she put her fingers in her ears, you see this is the mantra we use
"Allah hou akbar" by putting fingers. The little one, she is very small, about two years
of age, she just put in. But still you see she felt she has not helped me fully, so she
put her both the fingers in the mouth to suggest that please look after the lady, she's got
this problem.
The concern and the feeling that you get for another person is so tremendous, so tremendous,
that people can't understand but it is very simple, because if you become part and parcel
of the person, how can you not have concern? When who is the other, the problem is now
supposing you are sitting before me, and you have a problem in your stomach, I'll also
have a little problem, you see. And I'll be so concerned about that problem that it is
in my stomach as if that problem is existing. It is like that, the awareness becomes so
collectively conscious that it becomes part and parcel of you. Who is the other? the feeling
of otherness goes away. Now people talk big things like we are all united, we are all
brothers and sisters, and this and this, you must have heard all these speeches, and when
it comes to war, they'll fight . But in this, you cannot fight, because who is the other,
you can't fight your nose, you can't fight your hand, you can't fight your fingers. Nor
do you help anyone, you don't help anyone, because supposing this finger is in trouble
and this hand presses it, does it help it, nothing, this is neither obliged, nor this
is helping. This is one, that feeling of oneness that you are part and parcel of the whole
is established. Because of that feeling, that is such a tremendous feeling that you are
part and parcel of the whole, that you get cured, the curing comes because of that innate
understanding, by your being that you are not alone, you are part and parcel of the
whole, you are a cell of the whole body of God, or you are a microcosm of the macrocosm.
This is not just a psychological or a rational thing, but you just become. You just become,
you can't help it. And when you are that, you just don't feel you are helping anyone,
I mean, it is just like you see one cell acting for another cell. And the whole thing works
in such a homogeneous way, no fighting, no quarrelling, on the contrary, you enjoy each
other, you just love each other, and you just see the good points of another person, you
don't see the bad points, you forget the race, you forget all creeds, and everything you
forget, because you see a nose does not say I am higher than the hands, does it say? or
the feet do not say I am lower than the hands, the whole are equals. Supposing there is
something wrong with the feet, you'll just try to help, something wrong with the nose,
you'll help your nose, you don't discriminate in your body, do you? In the same way, we
do not discriminate. Once you become realized souls, whether you are from India or from
Asia, or from any other place, from England, America, any place you may be, maybe Chinese,
every sort of places that we have, in the cross section of Sahaja Yogis, you'll find
all kinds of people are there and they all love each other. You must see the way when
these people from England went to India, to the villages where I worked, the villagers
you see just grabbed them and they were so happy, they said the first time that we are
meeting our brothers and sisters, and these people were just enjoying them, and they all
started dancing, of course they are very light-footed and they wanted all these people to dance
with them. British are not so light-footed there so they found it rather difficult. They
made them jump, jump, jump and now they have become good dancers too, and they all dance
together and sing together, in complete joy and understanding. You see, the whole attitude
towards life changes. You become really a princess in the sense that you don't need
anything. There is no dirt, if there is a dirt, then you are beggar. If there is no
dirt, you can sleep here, you can sleep in a palace, you can, if you want you can get
a Rolls royce or if you want, you can walk, what's the harm? What's the difference? Because
the joy comes from your spirit, not from outside. The whole idea of comfort changes, the whole
idea of luxury changes, this all completely changes, because you enter into this new dimension
and that is what happens to your awareness that you become collectively conscious.
The enlightenment gives the human awareness a new dimension, by which you are collectively
conscious. Now emotion gives us happiness, you see, if you love somebody, you feel happy,
and you meet that person, you feel happy, and you want to bestow all your love on that
person, if your children are there, you want to love them, and give them love. But before
realization, this joy is limited. For example, husband wife relation I can understand, but
for children like in India, you see, they love their children so much that they will
even sell their country for their children's sake, the love becomes like a possession,
it becomes a love hate relationship, you see, they love so much that they come to hatred.
It's a funny thing but it happens. Why? Because it has limitations. Love has limitations,
it is not infinite. But when you get your love enlightened, you get joy. There is no
material given thing just you enjoy each other. In Calcutta first time on my way to America,
I was staying in a hotel, there were other, 5 -- 6 Sahaja Yogis staying with me in other
rooms, and one gentleman came to see me, and he fell at my feet, and tremendous vibrations
here. And they all rushed, who has come, who has come? I said, why? Tremendous joy started
flowing on our head, Mother, who is at your feet? They all rushed to me. I said, see this
one, aahh they all aah what enjoyment, what enjoyment! He was enjoying, they were enjoying
him. It is the first time you enjoy human beings. Because you can feel the vibrations
of a person. What a beauty human being is, what a glory he is, what a blessing he is,
what a creation he is, you realize only after realization.
Before that, you judge him, oh he has got long hair, he has got red hair, he has got
long nose, all that. But then you just see him in a subtle way, what he is, is his vibrations.
And so many people I have seen, Sahaja Yogis also, if they get somebody, they'll all rush
in. The fellow is there, and they are all taking vibrations, for half an hour, I am
tired, I say now finish it up, but no they are just sucking like a child. First time
you enjoy human beings, the joy which has not duality, joy does not have happiness and
unhappiness, happiness comes to us when our ego is pampered, and unhappiness comes to
us when our ego is dabbed. It is something different, we are not our egos, we are our
Self, and when Self enjoys something, it enjoys it, there is no remorse, there is no duality
about it, there is no unhappiness, so joy is a complete thing. It cannot be described,
it is just to be experienced, and enjoyed within ourselves.
And that is what happens to us when we get our realization, our idea of love changes.
Like, you say, oh I love this person. Like your husband is there, allright, you have
to love him like a husband. You don't love everybody like husband, allright, your sister
is there, you love her like a sister, but you think all others as your sisters, then
you love your brothers, you think them to be your brothers, you love all of them, the
love spreads, like that, it does not rest in one place, it does not sort of stagnate,
it does not coagulate. Supposing in a plant, sap is rising and it goes to one flower because
it loves it, and settles down there. The tree will die and the flower will die. So the love
we have before realization, is like that love, which dies ultimately or creates problems
and it dies. But love after realization is a love that emits, just flows. You don't get
anything, what do you get, people ask me, I mean my husband, you know, is in a different
line and I have a double life, and all my friends ask, what do you get out of it? I
say, I am not here to get, I get out something from me, it is just to give, is to enjoy.
As I told your mayor today, your politics will be solved, you'll have no parties. He
said, how can that be? I said, see now, I have supposing all the powers so I am a capitalist,
but I must share, so I am communist. I have to be a pure communist and a pure capitalist.
So how can I have two parties when both the things are the same (unclear)?. That is how
you solve your politics. How do you solve your economics? All transactions areas and
all those things come from a false idea that matter can give us happiness, it cannot. Only
the matter that has a certain coefficient, which gives vibrations, is the only thing
that gives you joy. Now we don't know if there is such matter or what. For example somebody
will say Stonehenge. Now it looks funny with the druids, of course they don't know anything,
I agree. But it is not. Because Stonehenge is created by the Mother Earth, it has vibrations.
They can't feel anything, they are standing there, singing songs, this, that. Somebody
must have felt in their forefathers. There are many places where you get vibrations from
the Mother Earth. So many, it is written in the Bible, in the ten commandments, only that
whatever is created by the Mother Earth or by the Sky should not be reproduced by human
beings and worshipped. But there are many things which have come out of the Mother Earth.
But unless and until you have vibrations, how will you know? You don't know the truth.
So in the human awareness, to know the truth, is very relative. You will say that, how is
it that this person is fake and that person is not fake? This is truth that is not truth.
There is no way of knowing it. Unless and until you get to the absolute point, how will
you know the relative? So when you get your realization, you can ask, is he a real man?
if he is, you'll get vibrations. If he is not, then, you might even get blisters. Vibrations
will stop maybe, little bit blisters you might get, if he is not a right type of a person.
If somebody is obstinate, you will get indication, if somebody is suffering from some possession,
you will get the indication. If somebody is mentally mad, you will know. It is very very
systematic, and very scientific. God's laws never fail. Various things and everything
that you know through it is absolute and correct. Only thing is you have to learn. You have
to train up your mind to understand these different things. The small children are much
cleverer than bigger people, because you see, they have so many hangups, they have so many
complications, they rationalize everything. Children will just say this, this is it.
Now people think, that how can it be free? How can it be.. with money. I ask the other
question, I mean, we cannot think of these things in the terms that I say divine, because
you have never known it before. How much money did Christ get? We have a life here of Christ,
how much money did he take? Now Christianity as such they asked me a question today. I
mean it cannot deliver the goods? they are Christians, they go to church, but is their
life Christian? Churches cannot deliver the goods.
But that does not mean that you run away from Christ. You can run away from that kind of
things, but not from Christ, because Christ exists. He definitely exists within us, and
he is a special person because he is placed at a very pivotal point, between the center
of the optic chiasma, where the pituitary and pineal body are there and he controls
our ego and superego. And when the Kundalini rises, then Christ is awakened, and he sucks
all of our karmas, all of our sins. That is what he said, that he has suffered for our
sins. They will say Christ, in the church they say, and then why do they ask you to
suffer? If Christ has suffered, why should we suffer any more? There should be no sufferings
any more, just enjoy, rejoice. He's done everything for us. Or do you want him to suffer more?
There are Jews who said, that we don't believe in Christ, and we have to suffer. Oh really,
I have Mr Hitler for you, if they want another one, they can have another one. And go on
with your sufferings. It is high time that they accept Christ and give up their sufferings,
otherwise, they are putting their sufferings on other people. There is no suffering needed
any more, it is a funny idea, I don't understand, why people say you must suffer to become spiritual?
Who has given you this idea?
Actually among Hindus, it was said, it was believed that our karmas, we have to pay for
it. Yes, allright. Up to what point? Till somebody called Mahavishnu comes in, that
is Christ, is called as Mahavishnu, all the signs and symptoms of Christ are described
as Mahavishnu in the Devi Maatma, but who reads that, I mean Christians will only read
Bible, will they read something else? So they never knew. And when the missionaries went
from here, they never talked about Christ like that. Or they just said that you better
get converted you see, they used to brand everyone Christian, Christian, Christian,
Christian. They would put a loaf of bread in the water, and say that this is the beef,
and all of you have become now Christians. So by villages they became Christians. Imagine
this kind of a Christianity, how far is it going to go? They never said that Christ is
the one who was Mahavishnu because they never knew. Until I told them that it was He the
Mahavishnu who came, who has come already. And he is going to suck our. Oh that is done,
then what, why to worry about karmas, finished, all our karmas are over.
But here we have Christ, but we don't know his essence. We don't know why is he there
for, what was the need for him to crucify himself? It was just to create a tremendous
deity within us that is Christ who will suck our (vibrations?). Now we have many Jews
who are our disciples. They will joyously accept Christ because Kundalini does not rise
unless and until they accept it here. But even those Christians who don't accept, say
Moses, or Yoham (unclear) Yoham is sitting here. That's the Virata, that is the Akbar.
That, you have to see for yourself, and the Kundalini rises, you'll be amazed, unless
and until you say Lord's prayer, it won't rise above it, if it is stuck there. And all
the Christians have this problem, you'll be surprised that Christ himself is angry with
them. You have to say Lord's prayer, that is why he said you will be calling me Christ,
Christ, and I won't recognize you. Just imagine! Then you have to say Lord's prayer in front
of some holy personality, he forgives you, and then the Kundalini rises. Just imagine,
he was the one who was the controller of ego, he is the one who sucks our ego, and see the
Christian nations, there is one thing they can't get out is their ego. Now they are realizing
it, no doubt, but still to get out of it, they have to fight it, and the more you fight
it, it becomes like a balloon, big, big, big, big, big. But by fighting it, you cannot get
out of it. Only by rising through the central path you can suck it through the awakening
of Christ, and you get your realization as cool breeze coming out of your head.
But when it happens also, as I said, people do not know what it is. Is Brahma Shakti or
what you call this cool breeze of the Holy Ghost, what it is. Because they did not allow
Christ to live long. He lived hardly for three and a half years to talk about it. I mean
the way they treated him, is really so atrocious and so cruel. To whom could he talk, to these
fishermen? About Kundalini? I mean they made it impossible, same with Mohammed Sahib. Arabs
could not accept Mohammed at all. And they have not yet accepted him the way they are
crucifying him everyday. He could not tell people about it but he did promise that it
will happen to you.
He has promised that a comforter will come, so that you will know my father for ever.
Thus you will get your Self-realization. He promised that. But how will you make him out?
How will you make out the comforter? How will you find out, if Christ comes in. Now Christ
has been announced. It's a big joke. You better tell this Mr Christ to walk on the water.
And you'll find him out. We had one in India. He told that he is going to walk on the water.
And people mad from America, they came with televisions, telescopes, and all Indian were
there to see the fun of the whole thing. All of them came here and Government also
encouraged people, not so for an extreme you know, for this kind of tomfoolery. They all
came, they occupied premises in a very big hotel, where there was a huge big swimming
bath, where this fellow was supposed to walk on the water, you see. And they had telescopes
and every sort of things there, and apart from that they had a television set, and from
America they were going to release you see, all these scenes of what was going to happen.
This fellow came forward, it was on the television, you could see, he put one foot, and with the
second foot he was down, he could not even swim, that man. They had to fish him out!
And he was put in the hospital, and they found he had cancer. But imagine, when they asked
why did you do all this? He said at least I have got a name, imagine. Like some hijackers,
they said that at least by doing these things, we will get some name. You know there are
some maniacs who want to appear in the newspaper. They say all that way. So he said I have got
a big name, in America, everywhere, everyone knows me, thank God, he is no more now to
befool some. You see these tricks they play. So these tricks have nothing to do with God.
If he is Christ, let him walk on the water. If you people will be kind enough, you better
write to this gentleman who has spent so much money in the newspapers, especially to the
journalist I would request, because you see journalism takes to such stupid people
very easily, I don't know why, they will publish, you know they published such a lot of things
about this nonsensical Christ who has come, better ask him.
There is another one who was trying to teach flying. Allright. Poor things who were flying,
one of them is sitting here, she was the directress of the institution, got epilepsy, the husband
got epilepsy, the child got epilepsy, all of them. They lost all their money, all their
property, everything. That is how they were flying on the streets of London, allright.
I said, why not ask the guru to fly? Why not use these leaning tower of Pisa? Just throw
him down, let us see how far he can fly. And then they even paid 3,000 pounds, to learn
flying nonsense. Why do you want to fly? Are you going to become birds now? All these nonsensical
tricks they play on you, and you believe them. It is never said in any scripture, any books,
anywhere that you will be flying as religious people or as spiritual people. Never.
Nor that you will be becoming mad. Even St Paul who was I don't know how they included
him in the Bible, I can't understand how was he a Christian? This is first thing, if he
saw the light, well and good, who saw the light? Now supposing you go and say, I have
seen the light, and I have become a great Christian, and you start organizing. Must
you be included in Bible? He has no idea of Christ. And he has no idea of reality. Then
I saw him, I said from where does this gentleman come in? He was nowhere near reality and he
said, that people got like mad when Holy Ghost came, everybody started laughing and they
started saying all kinds of words and all kinds of languages. It is very easy. You see,
say if an Indian possesses you, you will start behaving just like an Indian, you'll speak
in their language, you may be thieving, telling lies, all these things which are character.
Or if you are an English man entered into an Indian, you start speaking Ox bridge English.
It is possible. You have seen these things happening to people when they get possessed,
they do it. It is all possession. What is the way to know what you have got? It is so
much unknown, that anything that is unknown is not God, there is collective subconscious,
and there is collective supraconscious. Anybody can enter from that area and can possess us.
You must have seen a film shown by some doctors who said that cancer is caused by some proteins,
which proteins which come to us from the areas which are built within us since the time of
our creation. That is collective subconscious. They say it clearly, protein 58 or protein
52, they say it so clearly about it. That that is what triggers our cancer. But they
do not know how to control them. Of course I have been saying this for the last twelve
years but nobody understood at that time when I was saying that it is the collective subconscious
from where these things come in. Christ is the one who took out spirits and put in the
pigs. And here they are talking of Christian movements like you have got penticostian,
and charismatic, and this and that, where they are putting spirits into you, and when
they come before me, they shake like this, you know, just like this, and going into an
epileptic mood, and sometimes you see there are hundred spirits sitting in those people.
And they have no idea as to what to do with the dead, they are so naïve, in the church
you are sitting on a dead body. God knows how many. They don't know how to do that.
For example if an Indian lady from India comes in, she walks like this, saving her feet,
oh God, they are sleeping here, they are sleeping. We know that when they are buried there, maybe
their dead souls are around. But here in the church you go and there may be a very nice
way of possessing a person. There is a Sahaja Yogini in Paris, her mother was about sixty
years of age, not very old because I am of that age, and she was so mad, she became so
mad, that she did not know what was a (bedian? unclear) and what was a (lucean? unclear),
she was a funny woman, and she sometimes used to forget even her daughter, but Sunday morning
she would get up in a very normal way, dress up very well, go to the church, say her prayers
and come back. Really possessed person, she used to go, but somehow one of the Sundays
she got lost. And she informed the police. The police said you better send her to one
of these places where the old are looked after. So this Marie told me that when they put her
there, she found there are many like this who get up on Sundays, there is a church for
them. Also there are dead bodies of these mad women. They go to this church every Sunday,
again they are mad for the whole week, again on the Sunday, they get up and go to the church
and come back. Just imagine! How can that be God? You mean these dead spirits are God?
And will you shake all the time like this, if God enters into you. How can it be, it
is maddening.
Will you become more dignified and beautiful or you'll become ridiculous? Just ask a question
to yourself? In the Bible, it is written that everybody said that these people are possessed,
and they laughed at them, and they said they have gone mad. And still it is in the Bible,
and people read it, letters re, chapter this. Just imagine, describing mad people, and that
has become authentic now who is going to challenge them? They'll kill me if I tell them that.
But it is a fact. This is not what is going to happen. What Christ has said, your hands
will speak. Even Mohammed Sahib has said more about the day of resurrection. He did not
talk the day of dead first, of the complete destruction first. He talked more about the
day of resurrection. Christ also the day of judgement. They did not talk of the dead,
while there are people sitting around and thinking of when will that day come when we'll
all be finished. Imagine! We have reached that state of confusion that we are waiting
for a complete destruction, trying to celebrate it, the way people are anxious about it. First
of all, you all have to enter into the Kingdom of God. That is the place for you. That is
the place to enjoy. That is the place God has made. He has not made you a human being
to suffer and suffer and die in suffering. Then we have never understood him, he is the
father of compassion, he is the ocean of love, an ocean of forgiveness. We have forgotten,
what his nature is, and we really misunderstand that he has made us to suffer. This is really
absolutely anti-God idea, I think, and I just can't understand how can we really gulp it
down. It is too much, to believe that God will make you suffer or Kundalini makes you
suffer is another worse idea. She is your mother, she has been with you, she has been
waiting, she is your own mother, everybody has an individual mother, she has been waiting
for this day to give you realization, is she going to make you suffer?
May God bless you all.
I am very happy to be back, and I hope that you'll have more people next time, I'll be
able to come back again. If you have any problems, any questions, you may ask me.
Q: You said on the radio interview today, that you were destined to come as you have
come. Are they as seekers also destined?
You have hit the point. That's it. Absolutely that's it. You're all destined to come and
get realization. Absolutely that's it. Otherwise, do you think I am at to go about. Have you
ever known so many seekers in this world? Not only destined but deliberatious. You have
deliberately taken birth in those days to get your realization and to do the work of
God. And to enjoy the bliss of God. It is a deliberate action on your part. Destination
is of course there, but deliberations are there. You have to be all very special people
to do that, no doubt. That's a quality, that's a quality. Everybody does not have that quality,
that's a quality of people, only such people can stick on. I could not tell this to our
mayor that it is a quality that is lacking, it is a quality, they just know that this
is the truth.
Q: Is it possible to abuse the Kundalini?
No, never, never, never, never, you cannot, never.
Q: But can you use the wrong channel.
You cannot, cannot, just cannot. It's wisdom, Kundalini is awakened only by the permission
of a deity which is wisdom. You can never misuse it. You can never sell it. I'll give
you an example. There was a gentleman, an Indian whom I gave realization in America
who started his own organization, as usual, you see Indians are very good at making money,
put them anywhere, they'll make money. This fellow, you see, first he behaved allright,
and then he started his organization and all that and he wrote to me, I am doing this Sahaja
Yoga, I am doing this, and I got lots of people coming, he put a fees and all that. I did
not know how he was running it. Of course, you can charge for the food allright, you
can charge for your stay, but when he came you see, the people in Bombay are very sensitive,
they told me Mother, we are fainting with this man, what's the matter with him, we are
all feeling dizzy. I said, don't you worry, I'll find out. When he came, I said, can I
have a look at your brochure? In the brochure, he had written, for vibrations ordinary 125
$, for special ones 280 $. I said, Sir why this? He said, Mother how am I to live? I
said, what were you doing? He said, I was a teacher. I said, you go and be a teacher.
How much money did you pay me to get your vibrations that you put this kind of a thing
there? He said, but how am I going to live? and he got into a temper, and he became very
red. Now I can't talk to you about it, you cannot take any money for it. So he got very
angry, he said, I am going to see one Guru. I said, go and see him. This is the guru living
in Kalika, actually I've never met him. But this fellow, when he came back, he telephoned
to me. He said, Mother please forgive me, please forgive me, please forgive me. I said,
what happened? He telephoned, on the telephone I must tell you all what happened. I said,
what happened. He said, I went there, and when I reached the gate, this guru was sitting
in a hut, and he started throwing stones at me. One after another, so many stones he threw
that I just can't talk. He said, what do you mean? You have said those things to Mother
and you think I will give you some blessings here. These are my blessings, go ahead. And
poor fellow, you see, he went back, he went and sat in the station, on the platform, and
one of this guru's persons went and said that, what did you say to Mother? He knows that
Mother is there, and how dare you say something to Mother? He said, you see because I was
making money and she was angry with me, and this. He said, you better go and ask for
forgiveness. For three days, he stayed on the platform, you see, and the fourth day,
the guru sent for him, he came. Then he said a Sanskrit shloka in my praise and all that,
he said just go and read it out to Mother, that's all. So he brought that, read it on
the phone but somehow he could not meet me, he tried, but he just could not meet me and
he read that to me. But when this guru, I told him that why don't you go to America?
He said, I won't be able to go. He went to New York, he was there for three days and
he went back. He said, they are all mad people, they are dollar-mad, I can't stay there were
offering me dollars for everything. So he ran back, he could not stay there. So there
are realized souls, they are people who know about Sahaja Yoga, but they know that you
cannot sell it. If you try to do anything like that, finished. You will lose your vibrations
immediately. They are very sensitive, very sensitive. If you are ignorant, then it is
allright. Then it stays. But knowingly if you do something, then they will disappear.
And you won't like it, because when they are flowing you are enjoying yourself. You just
stop. Those who don't know anything about Kundalini. They say the Kundalini is in the
stomach, this, that, they are not authorized people, they try to play tricks with Kundalini,
they get into trouble, because... it's not the Kundalini, because she is the Mother,
but the deity, the deity that is Christ actually in another form called Ganesha is sitting
down there. He hits them hard, out of the sympathetic, and that is how they get it,
all the problems.
Q: So how do you have a guru raise the Kundalini?
That's what I am going to do. Once I have done it, then you will do. First an enlightened
light must enlighten you, allright? Once you are enlightened, you enlighten other people.
Question repeated by Dr Warren: He said, how do other gurus raise the Kundalini?
Which one? Which one? Let's have him out. I will send half of them to them. Who is the
one? They just talk.
Question: (unclear: about a guru in particular, Buchtan?)
You think he is raising Kundalini or he is putting bhoots, he is putting possessions.
They'll just dance, dance, dance. Anybody can dance, what is so great? Anybody can dance,
you see, what is there so great in dancing? Is there? But Kundalini you can see with your
naked eyes, the pulsation, the rising, the cool breeze coming out of your head. That's
what it is. So dancing, even Rajneesh does that, even takes out your clothes. Allright?
Shri Mataji saying aside: (What's this Buchtan, that's a funny man I must say).
Poor fellow, he punched his Kundalini so badly. The other day another fellow came, who was
beaten for sixteen years, can you imagine? He is good for nothing now. How to give him
realization? he spent all his money, everything, he has become so useless, at least now I feel
mentally also he is good for nothing. This, I sent him to Australia, that fellow. Oh no,
I am sorry, I did not mean you, I did not mean you, I sent him to Australia because
he was going to Australia, I said allright, you go and see this man. But a headache, I
tell you. He is good for nothing, this fellow. I know his names in his previous lives. But
very difficult, horrible. They not only want to make money, it is allright, you see there
are thugs, there are smugglers, allright, I don't mind. But they'll spoil your chance
of realization, they are anti-God. That is the point, the Kundalini just does not rise
in people who go to Buchtan. Rather difficult. Don't be frightened, if you have been, I'll
manage. It can be worked out. But when you will meet somebody Buchtanandi, you will know,
you'll run away from that person. You see, because your hands break. You get tired. The
Kundalini is tired, poor thing, she is this side, that side, I don't know what he does,
this horrible, cruel man.
One better than the other, this Buchtan. Can't you see on his face, what does he talk? all
nonsense. Very easy to make out. He puts the Kundalini in such a way that the void is completely
finished, you see. The crossing point, that void, is so much obstructed that the Kundalini
does not get out of that, just wobbles there. Well, we'll work it out, allright? We'll work
it out. For seekers, for seekers, they are God's own people. And you are to be saved,
to let these horrible people delude you? How long will they go on? All of them has to perish
one by one, you'll see that. The best part of it, that all untruth fails ultimately.
Q: How do you tell a true guru?
That after realization it is very easy but you can say. For example, a person, can't
you say who is a sincere person? You can. If you don't get into the circus. It is simple.
But a true guru will not be worried about your purse, as to how much money you have
got. And he will give you your own powers. He will not try to show off his own powers,
talk about his own powers, I am this, I am that, nothing. Unless and until the Kundalini
is risen and you have got Self-realization, nobody will give you false certificate that
Kundalini is awakened. It has to manifest, it is all falsehood, a to z, it is falsehood.
Supposing for example that somebody's Kundalini does not rise, allright, it does not rise,
my own daughters are not realized souls, what can I do about it? My own daughters are not
realized souls, but my grandchildren are. So what can I do? I cannot force on them.
If it is not, it is not. You cannot give false certificate, it has to happen.
Q: Isn't it hard to combine Christian and Hindu concepts?
No, no, it is the easiest. They are just the same, my child. They are just the same, they
is no difference at all. They are all one. Christ has said, those who are not against
me are with me. Who are they? They are all one. There is no difference at all. You'll
find out. At different stages they came on this earth to give us a new dimension. All
of them. You see like on a tree, we have different flowers at different times. But they all come
from the same source, don't they? Now they pluck the flower, this is my flower, this
is my flower. That's not. That's a dead flower. The same energy produces the same flowers.
But they fight. You'll be surprised if I tell you the whole history of the relationship
between them. Between Christ and Krishna, between Mohammed and Christ and Krishna, there
is a big relationship, they are all related to each other. Very closely. Which you'll
find out in Kundalini also. Very interesting how they are related, now they have played
the game, they are all settled down within us, you see, all brothers sisters, husbands
wife, and all sorts of relationship there. It is very interesting to see. But it is not
only a story but you can see it yourself. That they are within you. To say, say for
example if I say that Mohammed Sahib was the same as Nanak. Guru Nanak. Imagine the Sikhs
are breaking the neck of Muslims, and Muslims are breaking the heads of Sikhs, you see.
It is a big quarrel going on. But Nanak came after Mohammed, to teach Muslim Hindu unity.
Because he was surprised the way Muslims are. But they are one! They are one personality,
born again and again. Moses, Abraham, Socrates, all of them are the same. Now if a Muslim
is a fanatic, allright, he gets a cancer, normally he should, or he becomes a dry personality.
Imagine Khomeiny. They become a dry personality, they can be very violent people. But supposing
they get into trouble like cancer, I had one Muslim coming from Iran, who was a fanatic,
he got cancer. I said, you think that Mohammed Sahib is the only person? Yes, he said. But
if I say, Guru Nanak was the same. I can't believe it. I said, then I can't cure you.
You have to accept, because Mohammed Sahib himself is against you, because he came in
ten forms, he wouldn't accept. His wife you see, she weighed upon him because he was very
sick. And he got cured. That is how you have to prove, human beings cannot easily understand.
You see, if you are born in a Christian religion, you become a Christian. It is a horrible thing
like that, you see. You are all human beings, and all this people have come on this earth
to give you a new dimension. Only we don't understand them. They never came to make us
fanatics, that at least that is too much to see. After realization, you will know that
they are all in complete unison, complete concord. That is not possible on human level.
Absolute complete concord. Yes, it is a fact. Allright, should we have realization now,
let us try. Because I have to go now to England, London and tomorrow is another very heavy
day. Please put your hands.