Tip:
Highlight text to annotate it
X
Hello kevin clarkson here.
Inviting you to be with us at our pikes peak property summit this june seventeenth eighteen and nineteen.
In lovely colorado springs. We have a wonderful jam packed three days for you with over twenty.
Prophecy specialists and speakers. Let me give you a couple of three highlights it'll be there.
On friday night we're going to see at premiere screening. Of the samaritan it's the true story in film.
Of the romanian communist regime. And how that came to fall. By the influence of christians there in the land.
It's by director kevin.
Mcafee who will be with us live and in person and then on saturday we have bob core nuke with us.
Who will be discussing his possible location for the temple that is a new site.
Being proposed this would change everything. In the middle east.
And then finally on sunday we wrap it up with the great rapture debate.
We have a pre-treat rapture in a post read rapture specialist who will go head to head and we will take place.
I hope you'll be there where this is going to be a great conference. See you there.
Hello thank you for joining us a prophecy of the news i'm your host. Kevin clarkson. We are continuing.
Visiting with james walker today. James. We've already talked about.
Different cults and alternative religions but let's talk about. Really one of the major world religions today. Is love.
Yes. Well our ministry deals with with world religions as well and. We do quite a bit of research and.
Training equipping. Writing in the area of islam i believe given. Islam is going to be the.
Geo political issue of our lifetime. With radical islam and with terrorism. This is an issue that.
Every christian needs to be aware of. Knowing the basics in knowing how to handle. The subject of islam.
I've said that very same thing because. I think we've seen a sea change. Not only since. Nine would would.
But really with the rise of isis and the instability of the middle east and.
Martyrdom rising to unprecedented levels today had christians being driven out and immigration into europe and.
Very likely adar united states. We're all going to face this. Yes and if it hasn't already happened.
You're going to be having an opportunity to share the gospel with muslim that you're on to your pharmacist it's going
to be your your doctor is going to be the convenient store clerk it's going to be your next door neighbor.
But it is like god. Is allowing us opportunity we don't have to get on a plane ride go to the middle east.
They're coming to us. They're here. So how are we going to use this is an opportunity to share the gospel.
And i like to remind us all the time you know. We may dislike. Is low in the religion. But we must love muslims.
The people. Yes. And it's not really a racial thing it's not like. Because you have.
You have persians farse i you have. Arabs you have even. Caucasians today that are members of islam.
A lot of the growth in the united states. Between two thousand and two thousand and ten u.s.
Census it grew by one hundred sixty percent islam the united states right. A lot of it is. Conversion.
And that is people becoming muslim. From either a christian or other type of. Background where you have some noted.
Conversations with. That islam who is converted from christianity to islam. Yes. Yes.
You have had ongoing relationship with meek. Calcutta leo meek he is a different kind of guy collegial meek.
Is a muslim. He is the president of a group called the muslim. The. The muslim legal defense fund of america.
And what they do. He and his team they have. Like lawyers and things they go all over the country and they.
They protect and defend the civil liberties and human rights of muslims. Here in america.
Not told my frankly off the kind of collegial. How many christians have those rights in muslim countries.
And he said he actually told me he said. James. Even muslims don't have those rights in muslim countries.
But that's his job and his duty. But the amazing thing about colonial.
Is cleo is not from pakistan are not from saudi arabia. He's an american he's from texas.
Right near where i live in texas. Raised baptist kevin. Raised baptist planing to be a baptist minister.
He was in college. Plenty to go to seminary. As soon as he graduated. But as. His roommate who was muslim.
And some muslim friends gave him a koran. Challenging. Some things. And in colonial meek.
Converted to islam and so he's now head of this whole. You know muslim legal defense fund.
What is his role exactly and that is he. Is he a lawyer or just a.
Not sure i don't well they hire the lawyer so what he does. Now. One of the five pillars of islam is. Is the cot.
And there's a cot. Is. Every muslim is required to give two point five percent of their net worth. Every year.
And that's one of the think well has been had a bad ruling what time.
That no everly or a well he has had a ruling where his organization. Is is considered as a cot.
Organization so that the muslim can give to him. He's defending the legal rights of muslims in the oppressed.
He would say the oppressed here in america who are muslim and. So he organizes it he hires attorneys he's got.
Attorneys working for him and he crisscrosses the country.
Any place that there's a perceived injustice going on and that's that's what he does. So.
But he also highly he's also must. Apologist meaning he's wanted to fit in the muslim faith.
And so i had the privilege of doing a two hour debate with my friend coolio me. Oh wow. The subject. Jesus. The cross.
And the resurrection. Now what really happened at this. Highly debatable in islam.
So yes we're going to go and get forth with you is this because they they have a different take on the earth to fix it.
Totally. As well as the i did of the of christ.
Have salut lee so he says is not god he's not the second person of the trinity.
He's not the savior jesus is merely one of the prophets. According to islam.
And remarkably great if no mohammad is going to be great he's a final the greatest prophet. But the they do.
They believe that jesus among many other differences jesus never died on the cross. So the carotid it's interesting.
The qur'an doesn't really even say what happened. It only says two little verses. That. That the they tried.
They wanted to kill him they. They meant to kill him. But indeed they crucified him not. So what happened well.
The the muslims who followed. Mohammed the. Leaders over a period of several hundred years started developing theories.
And the dominant theory was that jesus was about to be crucified and. A substitute a replacement.
Was put on the cross did it simply to the likeness of the face of jesus
when one of the other cycles who then took the place of jesus is a substitute.
Some muslims will argue it was simon of sirene. You know who carried the cross. Beam.
So he gets up there and then they got confused and they crucified the wrong guy. But that's not the predominant theory.
The the most predominate theory i hear. Is it was actually judas iscariot. Who died on the cross.
Talking about taking the substitutionary tome and flipping it around now it's judas dying for and on behalf of jesus.
And so. When it comes. As to this crucifixion. On the we've got this.
Evidence we've got i mean new testament we've got eyewitness accounts we've got even. Even like secular you know.
Tacitus the roman historian we've got the writings of josephus.
There's just way too much evidence on this and so for two hours. And i went head to head.
And one of the issues separating the two world's largest religions. What really happened. Who is jesus.
And what really happened between the cross. And the resurrection. Now what do they speculate happened.
To do this if he didn't die on the cross i mean. Did he live a life out and.
Die in obscurity or do they go there at all what. Well. There are there are some muslims.
A sect of islam called the ahmed a m and the ahmed a and. Muslims believe that jesus actually made it to the cross.
But didn't die there. And that he is like the swoon theory.
You know so he was passed out he goes to a different part of the world
and he of his life dies of old age gets married and all this stuff.
But that's very very small percentage don't get the vast majority sunni and shia muslim.
Will believe that jesus was lifted up to heaven. That he didn't die. You know.
And he will die one day in the second coming of jesus when he returns back he'll fight for the cause of.
Of islam some would say he'll kill all the pigs. And. But what will happen is. He will die then. And be resurrected.
But for right now. He was just assumed up into heaven. Kind of like allied to the idolization ok. Fascinating.
Well go ahead and tell us about some aspects of. How you approach this in your debate.
Maybe let me read matthew sixteen for a moment we. We talked about you know jesus. The cross of the resurrection. So.
Speaking about that the identity of jesus. And james you'll know this really well i know.
Maybe you all have noticed it. As well yourself.
This is the first time jesus tells them he's going to go down the cross.
Not until after they understand who he really is.
So they go to the coast of sensory a fillip i bet you sixteen thirteen.
Jesus asked his disciples saying whom do you are going to be and say that i the son of me and him.
And they gave the gallup poll answers of their day. Well they said some say you're john the baptist some elias.
Others jeremiah's or one of the prophets.
And so you know that's exactly what the muslims say that he's apparently the prophet excellent poit.
He saith unto them but who say ye than i am. And that's personal.
That's what a would you do also have to answer that question when that's the question of why. It is.
Who do you say that he is. Simon peter answered said thou art the christ the son of the living god.
And it's just down five verses from that time forth.
So you just begin to show to his disciples that i must go into jerusalem.
Suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes and be killed and be raised again. The third day.
Now when he says son of the living god. This is. It puts the muslim on the horns of a dilemma. Yes because no muslim.
Can say that jesus son of god. The qur'an makes it very clear that god. Neither begets nor is he be gotten.
He cannot have a son or a partner or an equal or. It's a law alone. Not jesus jesus is.
A prophet and they do have a lot of respect for for jesus they even believe in the *** birth. Believe. You know.
They do believe in the *** birth. But no muslim cleric know imani.
No muslim is can say that jesus is the son of god.
In fact if you were to say that it creates this partnership or this idea of what they would call the sin of shirk.
And it's tantamount to being the unpardonable. So when. When simon peter tells us. You're the son of the living god.
Well if jesus was the mom he would. He would certainly been there.
That denounce that it with in the strongest language he's committee sure
but what is how does jesus respond that are you lesser you because you believe that.
Flesh and bone did not reveal this to you but my father. My father who's in heaven.
One is something else came up in the debate. Even someone as beloved as simon peter.
When jesus talks about the crucifixion. He says. No don't let it be so god don't let this be so.
You are what jesus says to get behind me satan get behind me satan.
The idea even when it's coming from the beloved peter himself. When you deny that jesus is going to be crucified.
That is a doctrine that comes from satan not from god. Get thee behind me now you've really got this. Down debating me.
Well. It all comes up you know and i've got to be ready for everything from the gospel of barnabus to.
You know what they're going to say about. Attack on the bible that it's been corrupted. The the.
The koran says that they believe in all the profits from. You know from moses you know even from madam. From adam.
You know all the way through jesus and. Into mohammed. But.
They believe that the prophets were corrupted that the the people of the book. The jews and the christians.
Corrupted the bible. So any time you a quote a verse. The muslim will try to dismiss that as being.
Well that's that's been tampered with it's been redacted it's just not trustworthy.
How did you respond to that in the debate. Well the truth of the matter is you have to ask the question.
If the bible was corrupted. When. Here's why this. In the koran itself. It says a lot tells mohammed.
When you doubt this message the koran. Comes from me for comes from god. Go to the people of the book. And ask them.
And they will verify. Now this wind it was the book corrupted. We say. It certainly could have been before muhammad.
Because it was before my heart that why would i got a law. Sin muhammad that the producer of the book.
Yet through the corrupted book and the very people who corrupted it. So it would have to happen.
After the time of mohammed description but the problem there is.
We just have a wealth of manuscript evidence older than mohammed mohammed you're to get seventh century. Yeah.
So we have six centuries of. Manuscript we get the dead sea scrolls. The great isaiah scroll. The has.
Entire book of isaiah including the suffering servant. Where it's prophesied that it's in prophecy.
You see it was being corrupted hey this.
Isaiah scroll is one hundred years older than the time of christ jesus affirms it himself jesus said.
Not one jot or tittle that's exactly right. And of his own words he said this. Heaven and earth will pass away.
But my word. One has a one even. Well. That's powerful. In a debate.
Did you bring up the evidence to support the resurrection of christ and what do they try to do with that i'm sure.
They. What. Kaliya would do you hear this from should be reilly. And several other muslim apologists. It's interesting.
A lot of their tack they don't really sound like. Muslims. They're using their arguments a bar ermine. And other like.
Liberal scholars and so like ruled yeah.
You know are you an atheist or are you a you could because you're going after the new testament as if you know.
Using just. Textual criticism. So it's basically well you have the accounts or.
Like several decades afterwards they got.
Sports written they weren't written in thirty three eighty they were written maybe in seventy
or sixty seventy some liberal scholars say eighty nine he used to say that about john's gospel had to be second century
or third century. Because the the. Christology the picture of jesus is so. Well developed.
It would take a century of course. The p p fifty two and the john rylan fragment. You now know absolutely.
We have a fragment of john's gospel that dates.
Possibly as early as is eighteen now that's not the original this is just a copy of a copy of a copy. It puts it right.
In the first century. So that argument goes away. And i understand we would have.
Fragment of mark's gospel that may date his earliest forty five. Well that's the. The mummy masks.
That they're that questions about. Well that well that. It hasn't been peer reviewed at this point but.
Looking very promising that we may have manuscript.
Fragments much older than anything we've even had up to now in the in the new testament books so there's no time for
corruption that. There's not not time for corruption. We also have the early church fathers. Citing the bible.
So you could almost put together. Most of the new testament just from references made by clement of alexandria.
By justin martyr. And you go down take the church by these the. Father says before three twenty five.
When they believe the majority of the problems that happened. These are pretty nice in council.
Church fathers greek fathers. And so the text of the new. Corroborates the text of it.
You have on the on the on the resurrection. Let's say it was a substitute. Ok. Explain the empty tomb. You know.
When i you know well you know it's. It was a substitute. Show me the body the substitute in.
The problem is you have an empty tomb. And if the romans. Or the. Either one could have produced a body.
They would have.
They would have traipse that corpse through the streets of jerusalem saying this religion is false it's wrong why
didn't they just do that. I'll tell you walk of him because he is not here. He has risen.
Amazing powerful proofs of the resurrection of christ.
Well i'm interested when you have these debates i say with the public forum. Yes it was open to that audience public.
You know i've done debates. With collegial that are co-sponsored by the muslim student association.
So it this is something that we have muslims present as well.
Do they take votes at the end or do they let the dog just walk out or. What kind of plays out. Curious.
What here's what we're trying to do. I mean i know kaleo yeah i've known him for about four or five years now and.
We we what we don't want to do we agree on this. Before we go into a debate.
We do not want to make it appear like that we believe the same thing. That's disrespectful for both religion.
It's not the same thing. However despite our major differences in what we believe.
We want to show respect for each other we want to model. When you have a muslim friend at school.
You have a muslim neighbor. How should you interact with that person is it.
Respect that we do that and so we do want to model that now. You know.
I'm sure coolio would love for people to at the end decide that they want to become muslim.
And i you know and i'll be the first one i will help you.
Pray to receive christ as your savior if you're a muslim who comes to this.
But we know all these things are in the hands of god. Right. And i am convinced that all the.
Almost all good evangelism. Is built on the back of relationships a relational thing. And not my personality type.
Is ten. I tend to make it about having the argument. Or having the facts. And being able to prove my point. And that's.
Gooden. Important. But i tell my staff that watchman fellowship all the time.
Being right is a good start but it's not enough. That's right.
We've got to love the person we've got to build the relationship right. Is not enough. It's good.
We've been talking to james walker and.
He's really very well versed in all matters of religion the cults but specifically in this program talking about islam.
That he's engaged in debates with. An islamic scholar an apologist. Who converted from christianity to islam.
Although i would contend that he was probably never truly a safe christian. Or he couldn't have done that.
In our debate we take. Text questions from the audience that gets wild.
Yeah because you know i really don't know what's going to come i don't know what that i would ask that that might it
gets asked though it was is so how does he handle that question what he believed i was i was a create believe he was a
christian i was. I was a believer in jesus. I was planning to be a baptist minister that was the goal.
And i think it's like possible. I'm not saying it's impossible.
Chris let me tell you kelly god knows somebody is hardly god.
But if you're really convinced that you're convinced christian. Even you have the holy spirit living in you.
Yeah i mean i mean christians can. You know. Suppress the holy spirit they can. They can quench the spirit.
But for this long for all these years to be head of the muslim.
Legal fund of america to be involved in supporting as he is in his organisation supporting the holy land foundation.
Hamas which are our government our homeland defense as is has backed hamas and.
We now have in the dallas fort worth area in every cities getting this
but in where i live in the dallas fort worth area we now have a tribunal. That's been seated. So. Shari'a law.
Is is how these things german el khalifi oh. He'll argue the case for that that's his legal.
His organization they'll fight for the legal right to set up a shari'a court. They. When your city.
And of course there's been resistance to that as you can imagine
when you see municipalities even whole states have been looking at that issue.
And the problems we see happening in in europe. And france and even. The u.k. To some degree. So you know.
They're going to defend those kinds of things and go after that. Well james we want offered everybody one of your.
Debates. That was failed. In the past. The name of this d.v.d. Said is jesus the cross and the resurrection.
Islam versus christianity. The debate and. This is available it's a two hour debate there's a one hour bonus d.v.d.
On here. For thirty nine ninety five plus shipping and handling.
If you go to the web site prophecy in the news dot com or call the eight hundred number on your screen.
And there should be a picture of the product available on your screen. I don't have one here in my hand. But..
Tell us what is. Besides the two hour event what is on this one hour. Bonus d.v.d.
Well the two hour debate that's the main main despite the bonus disc we wanted to help equip people.
Did to know what they need to know the essential so we have a crash course what every christian nice to know about
islam. So you learn the five pillars you learn the do's and don'ts.
We have specific do's and don'ts if you have a muslim neighbor or friend you know how to build a relationship.
Some of it's common sense but a lot of that use of the left hand. Allowing a dog to be in the room.
Or some things that you wouldn't be anywhere we know. And so and then we have another teaching on the.
I don't want a dog in the room. No dogs or unclean animals and that's going to.
You know especially if it's not an american muslim. They're going to i can't tell you what's going through their heads.
When they see a dog or especially to let the dog touch them. Not a good thing.
You know some of the same dietary laws as jews you would yes they would have him over and serve. American hot dogs and.
How they have to have a kind of like the. Law to give gifts. Yes they're very much gift giving people.
So you should have a gift ready. When you are in or taining.
Token of earth a muslim a what a token of our a state token of esteem
and not just a little one of the surprising things to me when i.
Many years ago when i began to develop relationships with muslims. I thought. Well they're muslim. You know.
Here's what i thought they're going to. When i try to talk to them about.
About what i believe i here's what i thought they would say. I'm muslim. I'm not interested. I found the opposite.
They would say i'm muslim. They're really interested. Wow. And they really want to hear.
Almost always they want to hear what a great question to ask a muslim this is all.
This is on that bonus just one of the great questions to ask a great question ask a muslim.
Have ever told you about how i became a christian. They'll look at you like became what you were born in america.
See their own idea. They have no ideas. No no no to be born in america makes you. American.
But to become a christian you must be born a second time. And it's almost most the time.
It's almost like nikka demas in john chapter three what do you mean. To be born again.
And it just opens the door for a conversation where you can take them through my life before i was a christian.
How i trusted christ as my savior. The assurance and peace i have now. With jesus as my lord. Fascinating fascinating.
Well any quick. Directives if somebody knows. A muslim and their burden for they were praying for them.
They haven't yet approached them. What what two or three things would you say to bear and would be a friend.
Be a friend first. And then i don't have prince here of the bank located him and we've noticed that. Isolated.
They be the only person because they were in the his job or there where they're wearing a burka or something
and so it's like.
People want to stay away from them
and they're lonely sometimes they don't have any friends you before in them bring them a gift.
You'd be surprised how it opens the door. One of the things i want to encourage people christians.
We sometimes want to wait to start a conversation till we have all the answers. You'll never start.
That's i don't have all the answers nobody has all the answers. Oh what do you want. Only only god.
But you want to have a strategy.
So if somebody is going to ask me a hard question already have a plan for it if i don't know the answer that question
i'm going to acknowledge that said. That's a good question. Could you give me a minute to write that question down.
Because it's too good of a question to forget i don't want to just give you an answer with top of my head because that
question deserves a better answer. Let me write it down and next time we talk.
I meant try to have the best possible answer for you. Well that gives you time to do the research and you know.
Get online or ask your pastor. Be prepared. And it and it. It promotes that relationship.
And it implies that you're going to have another conversation. So you don't have to be an expert.
Right over time as you begin to look at these questions in these answers.
You become more knowledgeable
and you can as a christian how you can share your faith the apostle paul was able to quote the.
The philosophers of his day. And the other religions we need to as well.
That's good really good we've been talking to james walker. Christianity. Versus islam the debate.
And of course we believe and know that the truth is christianity.
Jesus christ is the son of god god to do it a great work today. In islamic countries where missionaries are able to go.
Like never before. And there's a great hunger among many young people who have lived under sharia law.
Because although. They know a lot about. Respect and customs and proper things.
There is a spiritual hunger for reality. For forgiveness for really discovering the love and grace of god.
And the place for that is jesus christ. If you don't know him call his name.
This god came and gave his life so we could be with him forever. That he's alive. Let's keep looking up.