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LET'S LISTEN IN AS ED VISITS WITH DAVID HEINZMANN, CHICAGO TRIBUNE CRIME REPORTER AND
WITH DAVID HEINZMANN, CHICAGO TRIBUNE CRIME REPORTER AND AUTHOR.
TRIBUNE CRIME REPORTER AND AUTHOR. >>I'D LIKE TO MAKE SURE I
AUTHOR. >>I'D LIKE TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND.
>>I'D LIKE TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND. YOU ARE A CRIME REPORTER FOR
UNDERSTAND. YOU ARE A CRIME REPORTER FOR CHICAGO TRIBUNE AND DONE IT MORE
YOU ARE A CRIME REPORTER FOR CHICAGO TRIBUNE AND DONE IT MORE THAN TEN YEARS.
CHICAGO TRIBUNE AND DONE IT MORE THAN TEN YEARS. IS THAT CORRECT.
THAN TEN YEARS. IS THAT CORRECT. >>THAT'S CORRECT I I AM NOW SORT
IS THAT CORRECT. >>THAT'S CORRECT I I AM NOW SORT OF JENNA SIGNMENT REPORTER FOR
>>THAT'S CORRECT I I AM NOW SORT OF JENNA SIGNMENT REPORTER FOR THE TRIBUNE.
OF JENNA SIGNMENT REPORTER FOR THE TRIBUNE. MAINLY WHAT I DO IS CRIME, AND
THE TRIBUNE. MAINLY WHAT I DO IS CRIME, AND NOW I AM GETTING INTO LITTLE PIT
MAINLY WHAT I DO IS CRIME, AND NOW I AM GETTING INTO LITTLE PIT OF POLITICAL REPORTING.
NOW I AM GETTING INTO LITTLE PIT OF POLITICAL REPORTING. I COVERED THE CHICAGO POLICE
OF POLITICAL REPORTING. I COVERED THE CHICAGO POLICE DEPARTMENT FOR FIVE YEARS, FROM
I COVERED THE CHICAGO POLICE DEPARTMENT FOR FIVE YEARS, FROM 2002 TO 2007, THAT'S THE MAIN
DEPARTMENT FOR FIVE YEARS, FROM 2002 TO 2007, THAT'S THE MAIN BODY OF MY REAL EXPERIENCE AT
2002 TO 2007, THAT'S THE MAIN BODY OF MY REAL EXPERIENCE AT THE TRIBUNE WAS COVERING COPS
BODY OF MY REAL EXPERIENCE AT THE TRIBUNE WAS COVERING COPS FOR THE TRIBUNE AND THAT'S WHERE
THE TRIBUNE WAS COVERING COPS FOR THE TRIBUNE AND THAT'S WHERE I PICKED UPMOST OF MY CRIME
FOR THE TRIBUNE AND THAT'S WHERE I PICKED UPMOST OF MY CRIME REPORTING EXPERIENCE.
I PICKED UPMOST OF MY CRIME REPORTING EXPERIENCE. >>BEFORE THAT, ASSOCIATED PRESS
REPORTING EXPERIENCE. >>BEFORE THAT, ASSOCIATED PRESS IN BALTIMORE, ATLANTA.
>>BEFORE THAT, ASSOCIATED PRESS IN BALTIMORE, ATLANTA. >>YES.
IN BALTIMORE, ATLANTA. >>YES. >>DAILY SOUTH TOWN, CHICAGO,
>>YES. >>DAILY SOUTH TOWN, CHICAGO, SOUTH SIDE.
>>DAILY SOUTH TOWN, CHICAGO, SOUTH SIDE. >>YES.
SOUTH SIDE. >>YES. AND YOUR APPEARANCE AT CNN, FOR
>>YES. AND YOUR APPEARANCE AT CNN, FOR EXAMPLE, NATIONAL NPR, MS NBC
AND YOUR APPEARANCE AT CNN, FOR EXAMPLE, NATIONAL NPR, MS NBC DATE LINE.
EXAMPLE, NATIONAL NPR, MS NBC DATE LINE. THAT WAS ONE OF THE BENEFITS OF
DATE LINE. THAT WAS ONE OF THE BENEFITS OF BEING A CRIME REPORTER, EVERY
THAT WAS ONE OF THE BENEFITS OF BEING A CRIME REPORTER, EVERY ONCE THIS AWHILE WE MAKE THE
BEING A CRIME REPORTER, EVERY ONCE THIS AWHILE WE MAKE THE NATIONAL NEWS WITH GIANT CRIME
ONCE THIS AWHILE WE MAKE THE NATIONAL NEWS WITH GIANT CRIME STORY, WHEN JUDGE JOAN LEFKOW'S
NATIONAL NEWS WITH GIANT CRIME STORY, WHEN JUDGE JOAN LEFKOW'S FAMILY WAS MURDERED A FEW YEARS
STORY, WHEN JUDGE JOAN LEFKOW'S FAMILY WAS MURDERED A FEW YEARS AGO.
FAMILY WAS MURDERED A FEW YEARS AGO. SHE WAS A FEDERAL JUDGE.
AGO. SHE WAS A FEDERAL JUDGE. THERE WAS A PEORIA CONNECTION,
SHE WAS A FEDERAL JUDGE. THERE WAS A PEORIA CONNECTION, THE MAIN THRUST AFTER THE IT
THERE WAS A PEORIA CONNECTION, THE MAIN THRUST AFTER THE IT MURDERS WAS MATT HALE.
THE MAIN THRUST AFTER THE IT MURDERS WAS MATT HALE. FOR A FEW WEEKS, THE MAIN
MURDERS WAS MATT HALE. FOR A FEW WEEKS, THE MAIN INVESTIGATION WAS POINTED TO
FOR A FEW WEEKS, THE MAIN INVESTIGATION WAS POINTED TO WHITE SUPREMACIST NETWORK.
INVESTIGATION WAS POINTED TO WHITE SUPREMACIST NETWORK. IT WAS COMPLETELY UNRELATED.
WHITE SUPREMACIST NETWORK. IT WAS COMPLETELY UNRELATED. THE STORY LIKE THAT IT WILL BE
IT WAS COMPLETELY UNRELATED. THE STORY LIKE THAT IT WILL BE ON C.N.N. OR MS N.B.C. OVER THE
THE STORY LIKE THAT IT WILL BE ON C.N.N. OR MS N.B.C. OVER THE DAYS OF THAT INVESTIGATION.
ON C.N.N. OR MS N.B.C. OVER THE DAYS OF THAT INVESTIGATION. >>EDUCATIONAL, GEORGETOWN,
DAYS OF THAT INVESTIGATION. >>EDUCATIONAL, GEORGETOWN, UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS.
>>EDUCATIONAL, GEORGETOWN, UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS. >>THAT'S RIGHT.
UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS. >>THAT'S RIGHT. >>MAJORS?
>>THAT'S RIGHT. >>MAJORS? >> I WAS AMERICAN CIVILIZATION
>>MAJORS? >> I WAS AMERICAN CIVILIZATION MAJOR AT GEORGE WASHINGTON WHICH
>> I WAS AMERICAN CIVILIZATION MAJOR AT GEORGE WASHINGTON WHICH IS CULTURAL AND SOCIAL HISTORY,
MAJOR AT GEORGE WASHINGTON WHICH IS CULTURAL AND SOCIAL HISTORY, AND THEN AT UNIVERSITY OF
IS CULTURAL AND SOCIAL HISTORY, AND THEN AT UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS, I WENT TO GRADUATE
AND THEN AT UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS, I WENT TO GRADUATE SCHOOL TO GET A JOURNALISM
ILLINOIS, I WENT TO GRADUATE SCHOOL TO GET A JOURNALISM MASTER'S DEGREE.
SCHOOL TO GET A JOURNALISM MASTER'S DEGREE. >>YOU HAVE TWO CHILDREN.
MASTER'S DEGREE. >>YOU HAVE TWO CHILDREN. >>YOU TWO BOYS, FRANCIS AGE
>>YOU HAVE TWO CHILDREN. >>YOU TWO BOYS, FRANCIS AGE FIVE, AND, ANDREW IS ONE.
>>YOU TWO BOYS, FRANCIS AGE FIVE, AND, ANDREW IS ONE. >>YOUR SPOUSE.
FIVE, AND, ANDREW IS ONE. >>YOUR SPOUSE. ELISHA, FORMERLY, ELISHA ZARLY.
>>YOUR SPOUSE. ELISHA, FORMERLY, ELISHA ZARLY. SHE GREW UP THIS PEORIA HEIGHTS.
ELISHA, FORMERLY, ELISHA ZARLY. SHE GREW UP THIS PEORIA HEIGHTS. MOST OF OUR FAMILIES ARE STILL
SHE GREW UP THIS PEORIA HEIGHTS. MOST OF OUR FAMILIES ARE STILL IN THE AREA.
MOST OF OUR FAMILIES ARE STILL IN THE AREA. >>YOU RESIDE IN OAK PARK.
IN THE AREA. >>YOU RESIDE IN OAK PARK. >>YES.
>>YOU RESIDE IN OAK PARK. >>YES. RIGHT OUTSIDE THE CITY OF
>>YES. RIGHT OUTSIDE THE CITY OF CHICAGO.
RIGHT OUTSIDE THE CITY OF CHICAGO. >>MET A MORE ACTION A ONE COP
CHICAGO. >>MET A MORE ACTION A ONE COP TOWN AT THAT TIME.
>>MET A MORE ACTION A ONE COP TOWN AT THAT TIME. >>SORT OF STILL, NO MORE THAN
TOWN AT THAT TIME. >>SORT OF STILL, NO MORE THAN ONE POLICE OFFICER ON DUTY.
>>SORT OF STILL, NO MORE THAN ONE POLICE OFFICER ON DUTY. >>POPULATION CURRENTLY IS,
ONE POLICE OFFICER ON DUTY. >>POPULATION CURRENTLY IS, ABOUT, OH, WOODFORD COUNTY,
>>POPULATION CURRENTLY IS, ABOUT, OH, WOODFORD COUNTY, 32,000.
ABOUT, OH, WOODFORD COUNTY, 32,000. >>YES.
32,000. >>YES. METAMORA -- WHEN I WAS A KID,
>>YES. METAMORA -- WHEN I WAS A KID, THE SIGN SAID 22 HUNCH NOW IT IS
METAMORA -- WHEN I WAS A KID, THE SIGN SAID 22 HUNCH NOW IT IS 2500.
THE SIGN SAID 22 HUNCH NOW IT IS 2500. MY FATHER WAS A HUNTER, AND MY
2500. MY FATHER WAS A HUNTER, AND MY BROTHER IS A VERY AVID HUNTER.
MY FATHER WAS A HUNTER, AND MY BROTHER IS A VERY AVID HUNTER. WHEN I WAS A KID, WE'D GO OUT TO
BROTHER IS A VERY AVID HUNTER. WHEN I WAS A KID, WE'D GO OUT TO A FRIEND'S FARM AND SHOOT TRAP,
WHEN I WAS A KID, WE'D GO OUT TO A FRIEND'S FARM AND SHOOT TRAP, SHOOT CLAY PIGEONS LUNCHED FROM
A FRIEND'S FARM AND SHOOT TRAP, SHOOT CLAY PIGEONS LUNCHED FROM SPRING LOADED CONTRAPTION AND
SHOOT CLAY PIGEONS LUNCHED FROM SPRING LOADED CONTRAPTION AND TRY TO SHOOT THEM WITH A
SPRING LOADED CONTRAPTION AND TRY TO SHOOT THEM WITH A SHOTGUN.
TRY TO SHOOT THEM WITH A SHOTGUN. I USED TO DO THAT WHEN I WAS AN
SHOTGUN. I USED TO DO THAT WHEN I WAS AN ADOLESCENT.
I USED TO DO THAT WHEN I WAS AN ADOLESCENT. MY BROTHER WAS A TEEN-AGER, OR
ADOLESCENT. MY BROTHER WAS A TEEN-AGER, OR LATE TEENS AND I WAS IT A -- I
MY BROTHER WAS A TEEN-AGER, OR LATE TEENS AND I WAS IT A -- I WAS EARLY IN HIGH SCHOOL.
LATE TEENS AND I WAS IT A -- I WAS EARLY IN HIGH SCHOOL. THERE WAS AN INCIDENT.
WAS EARLY IN HIGH SCHOOL. THERE WAS AN INCIDENT. (LAUGHING) I WAS HOLDING A GUN,
THERE WAS AN INCIDENT. (LAUGHING) I WAS HOLDING A GUN, AND YOU STAND IN A LINE, ALL THE
(LAUGHING) I WAS HOLDING A GUN, AND YOU STAND IN A LINE, ALL THE GUYS WITH SHOTGUNS WAITING FOR
AND YOU STAND IN A LINE, ALL THE GUYS WITH SHOTGUNS WAITING FOR YOUR TURN.
GUYS WITH SHOTGUNS WAITING FOR YOUR TURN. WHAT WAS YOUR AGE?
YOUR TURN. WHAT WAS YOUR AGE? >> I WAS PROBABLY 14 OR 15 WHEN
WHAT WAS YOUR AGE? >> I WAS PROBABLY 14 OR 15 WHEN THIS HAPPENED.
>> I WAS PROBABLY 14 OR 15 WHEN THIS HAPPENED. AND YOU HOLD A GUN, YOU POINT IT
THIS HAPPENED. AND YOU HOLD A GUN, YOU POINT IT AT THE GROUND AND MAKE SURE IT
AND YOU HOLD A GUN, YOU POINT IT AT THE GROUND AND MAKE SURE IT IS NOT POINTED TO EVERYBODY
AT THE GROUND AND MAKE SURE IT IS NOT POINTED TO EVERYBODY ELSE.
IS NOT POINTED TO EVERYBODY ELSE. I WAS WAITING MY TURN. IT WAS
ELSE. I WAS WAITING MY TURN. IT WAS NOT MY TURN AND THE GUN WENT OFF
I WAS WAITING MY TURN. IT WAS NOT MY TURN AND THE GUN WENT OFF AND BLASTED THIS HOLE IN THE
NOT MY TURN AND THE GUN WENT OFF AND BLASTED THIS HOLE IN THE DIRT.
AND BLASTED THIS HOLE IN THE DIRT. >>*** HERRING, A VERY GOOD
DIRT. >>*** HERRING, A VERY GOOD FRIEND OF THE FAMILY, SORT OF
>>*** HERRING, A VERY GOOD FRIEND OF THE FAMILY, SORT OF LOOKED AND SAID "CAREFUL THERE,
FRIEND OF THE FAMILY, SORT OF LOOKED AND SAID "CAREFUL THERE, DAVID."
LOOKED AND SAID "CAREFUL THERE, DAVID." ANYWAY, I HAD WRITTEN ABOUT THIS
DAVID." ANYWAY, I HAD WRITTEN ABOUT THIS BECAUSE I GREW UP WITH GUNS
ANYWAY, I HAD WRITTEN ABOUT THIS BECAUSE I GREW UP WITH GUNS EVERY WHERE, NOT EVERY WHERE,
BECAUSE I GREW UP WITH GUNS EVERY WHERE, NOT EVERY WHERE, BUT THEY WERE PLENTY OF GUNS IN
EVERY WHERE, NOT EVERY WHERE, BUT THEY WERE PLENTY OF GUNS IN OUR HOUSE AS THERE IS IN MANY
BUT THEY WERE PLENTY OF GUNS IN OUR HOUSE AS THERE IS IN MANY HOMES IN RURAL AMERICA.
OUR HOUSE AS THERE IS IN MANY HOMES IN RURAL AMERICA. WE WILL GET TO YOUR BOOK OF BUT
HOMES IN RURAL AMERICA. WE WILL GET TO YOUR BOOK OF BUT REFERENCES TO SAWED OFF SHOTGUN
WE WILL GET TO YOUR BOOK OF BUT REFERENCES TO SAWED OFF SHOTGUN IN YOUR BOOK.
REFERENCES TO SAWED OFF SHOTGUN IN YOUR BOOK. IN THE BOOK, YEAH, NO SAWED OFF
IN YOUR BOOK. IN THE BOOK, YEAH, NO SAWED OFF SHOTGUNS IN MY HOME.
IN THE BOOK, YEAH, NO SAWED OFF SHOTGUNS IN MY HOME. THOSE WERE NOT LEGAL.
SHOTGUNS IN MY HOME. THOSE WERE NOT LEGAL. >>MAYBE YOU WERE RELIVING YOUR
THOSE WERE NOT LEGAL. >>MAYBE YOU WERE RELIVING YOUR PAST, MAYBE NOT.
>>MAYBE YOU WERE RELIVING YOUR PAST, MAYBE NOT. >>I KNOW WHAT THE SOUND OF A
PAST, MAYBE NOT. >>I KNOW WHAT THE SOUND OF A SHOTGUN GOING OFF A CLOSE RANGE
>>I KNOW WHAT THE SOUND OF A SHOTGUN GOING OFF A CLOSE RANGE IS OBVIOUSLY.
SHOTGUN GOING OFF A CLOSE RANGE IS OBVIOUSLY. WHEN I WROTE THAT SCENE IN THE
IS OBVIOUSLY. WHEN I WROTE THAT SCENE IN THE BOOK, I FELT FAIRLY WELL
WHEN I WROTE THAT SCENE IN THE BOOK, I FELT FAIRLY WELL INFORMED, WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE,
BOOK, I FELT FAIRLY WELL INFORMED, WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE, BUT QUITE DIFFERENT
INFORMED, WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE, BUT QUITE DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES IN THE BOOK.
BUT QUITE DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES IN THE BOOK. BUT THAT IS THE SOUND AND FEEL
CIRCUMSTANCES IN THE BOOK. BUT THAT IS THE SOUND AND FEEL OF A GUN GOING OFF AT CLOSE
BUT THAT IS THE SOUND AND FEEL OF A GUN GOING OFF AT CLOSE RANGE.
OF A GUN GOING OFF AT CLOSE RANGE. CENTURIES AND SLEUTHS, FOREST
RANGE. CENTURIES AND SLEUTHS, FOREST PARK, THE BLUE LETTER.
CENTURIES AND SLEUTHS, FOREST PARK, THE BLUE LETTER. >> OH, (LAUGHING), YEAH.
PARK, THE BLUE LETTER. >> OH, (LAUGHING), YEAH. SO WHEN THE BOOK CAME OUT IN
>> OH, (LAUGHING), YEAH. SO WHEN THE BOOK CAME OUT IN DECEMBER, I GOT AN E-MAIL, I
SO WHEN THE BOOK CAME OUT IN DECEMBER, I GOT AN E-MAIL, I HAVE A WEB SITE FOR THE BOOK,
DECEMBER, I GOT AN E-MAIL, I HAVE A WEB SITE FOR THE BOOK, AND A WOMAN CONTACTED ME WHO
HAVE A WEB SITE FOR THE BOOK, AND A WOMAN CONTACTED ME WHO LIVES IN WHEATON, WHICH IS A
AND A WOMAN CONTACTED ME WHO LIVES IN WHEATON, WHICH IS A LARGE SUBURB OF CHICAGO AND SAID
LIVES IN WHEATON, WHICH IS A LARGE SUBURB OF CHICAGO AND SAID "IDENTIFIED HERSELF AS BEING
LARGE SUBURB OF CHICAGO AND SAID "IDENTIFIED HERSELF AS BEING FROM BRADFORD OR CAMP GROVE
"IDENTIFIED HERSELF AS BEING FROM BRADFORD OR CAMP GROVE WHERE MY PARENTS GREW UP WHICH
FROM BRADFORD OR CAMP GROVE WHERE MY PARENTS GREW UP WHICH IS QUITE SMALL.
WHERE MY PARENTS GREW UP WHICH IS QUITE SMALL. AND SHE KNEW MY FAMILY PRETTY
IS QUITE SMALL. AND SHE KNEW MY FAMILY PRETTY WELL, AND ANYWAY I HAD THIS BOOK
AND SHE KNEW MY FAMILY PRETTY WELL, AND ANYWAY I HAD THIS BOOK SIGNING AT CENTURY'S AND
WELL, AND ANYWAY I HAD THIS BOOK SIGNING AT CENTURY'S AND SLEUTHS, A GREAT MYSTERY
SIGNING AT CENTURY'S AND SLEUTHS, A GREAT MYSTERY BOOKSTORE IN FOREST PARK RIGHT
SLEUTHS, A GREAT MYSTERY BOOKSTORE IN FOREST PARK RIGHT OUTSIDE OF THE CITY.
BOOKSTORE IN FOREST PARK RIGHT OUTSIDE OF THE CITY. SHE CAME RIGHT BEFORE THIS THING
OUTSIDE OF THE CITY. SHE CAME RIGHT BEFORE THIS THING STARTED.
SHE CAME RIGHT BEFORE THIS THING STARTED. IT WAS ANOTHER AUTHOR AND I, AND
STARTED. IT WAS ANOTHER AUTHOR AND I, AND THERE WERE A THUMB OF PEOPLE
IT WAS ANOTHER AUTHOR AND I, AND THERE WERE A THUMB OF PEOPLE THERE.
THERE WERE A THUMB OF PEOPLE THERE. IT WAS THE FIRST ONE OF THESE
THERE. IT WAS THE FIRST ONE OF THESE THINGS THAT I HAD DONE, SHE
IT WAS THE FIRST ONE OF THESE THINGS THAT I HAD DONE, SHE WALKED IN AND I WAS VERY HAPPY
THINGS THAT I HAD DONE, SHE WALKED IN AND I WAS VERY HAPPY TO MEET HER.
WALKED IN AND I WAS VERY HAPPY TO MEET HER. I HADN'T MET HER BEFORE.
TO MEET HER. I HADN'T MET HER BEFORE. SHE HANDED ME THIS ENVELOPE THAT
I HADN'T MET HER BEFORE. SHE HANDED ME THIS ENVELOPE THAT CONTAINED A BUNCH OF PHOTOGRAPHS
SHE HANDED ME THIS ENVELOPE THAT CONTAINED A BUNCH OF PHOTOGRAPHS OF MY PARENTS WHEN THEY WERE
CONTAINED A BUNCH OF PHOTOGRAPHS OF MY PARENTS WHEN THEY WERE YOUNGSTERS THAT I HAD NEVER SEEN
OF MY PARENTS WHEN THEY WERE YOUNGSTERS THAT I HAD NEVER SEEN BEFORE INCLUDING THIS LETTER IN
YOUNGSTERS THAT I HAD NEVER SEEN BEFORE INCLUDING THIS LETTER IN MY MOM'S HANDWRITING.
BEFORE INCLUDING THIS LETTER IN MY MOM'S HANDWRITING. MY MOM IS 85, IN HER HANDWRITING
MY MOM'S HANDWRITING. MY MOM IS 85, IN HER HANDWRITING BEING IT WAS HER AS A VERY YOUNG
MY MOM IS 85, IN HER HANDWRITING BEING IT WAS HER AS A VERY YOUNG WOMAN, SINGLE WOMAN WRITING TO
BEING IT WAS HER AS A VERY YOUNG WOMAN, SINGLE WOMAN WRITING TO THIS WOMEN'S MOTHER.
WOMAN, SINGLE WOMAN WRITING TO THIS WOMEN'S MOTHER. SO IT WAS JUST THIS GREAT LITTLE
THIS WOMEN'S MOTHER. SO IT WAS JUST THIS GREAT LITTLE TIME CAPSULE THAT WAS DROPPED IN
SO IT WAS JUST THIS GREAT LITTLE TIME CAPSULE THAT WAS DROPPED IN MY LAP RIGHT BEFORE THIS BOOK
TIME CAPSULE THAT WAS DROPPED IN MY LAP RIGHT BEFORE THIS BOOK SIGNING STARTED.
MY LAP RIGHT BEFORE THIS BOOK SIGNING STARTED. >>YOUR MENTORS, FIRST AE, YOU
SIGNING STARTED. >>YOUR MENTORS, FIRST AE, YOU HAVE TO HELP ME.
>>YOUR MENTORS, FIRST AE, YOU HAVE TO HELP ME. >>CLAYSON.
HAVE TO HELP ME. >>CLAYSON. >>HE WAS ENGLISH PROFESSOR AND
>>CLAYSON. >>HE WAS ENGLISH PROFESSOR AND CREATIVE WRITING PROFESSOR AT
>>HE WAS ENGLISH PROFESSOR AND CREATIVE WRITING PROFESSOR AT GEORGE WASHINGTON.
CREATIVE WRITING PROFESSOR AT GEORGE WASHINGTON. HE WAS MORE THAN ANY OTHER
GEORGE WASHINGTON. HE WAS MORE THAN ANY OTHER PERSON WAS REALLY THE GUY WHO
HE WAS MORE THAN ANY OTHER PERSON WAS REALLY THE GUY WHO GAVE ME SOME CLARITY ABOUT THE
PERSON WAS REALLY THE GUY WHO GAVE ME SOME CLARITY ABOUT THE WORLD OF LITERATURE AND HOW YOU
GAVE ME SOME CLARITY ABOUT THE WORLD OF LITERATURE AND HOW YOU MIGHT MAKE A LIFE OUT OF WRITING
WORLD OF LITERATURE AND HOW YOU MIGHT MAKE A LIFE OUT OF WRITING AND BOOKS AND, AS IT TURNED OUT
MIGHT MAKE A LIFE OUT OF WRITING AND BOOKS AND, AS IT TURNED OUT FOR ME, JOURNALISM.
AND BOOKS AND, AS IT TURNED OUT FOR ME, JOURNALISM. HE WAS AN ILLINOISIAN AND HE
FOR ME, JOURNALISM. HE WAS AN ILLINOISIAN AND HE GREW UP IN WAUKEGAN.
HE WAS AN ILLINOISIAN AND HE GREW UP IN WAUKEGAN. HIS MENTOR WAS MARK VAN DOREN, A
GREW UP IN WAUKEGAN. HIS MENTOR WAS MARK VAN DOREN, A GREAT LITERATURE PROFESSOR AT
HIS MENTOR WAS MARK VAN DOREN, A GREAT LITERATURE PROFESSOR AT COLUMBIA.
GREAT LITERATURE PROFESSOR AT COLUMBIA. ANYWAY, HE WAS JUST A REALLY
COLUMBIA. ANYWAY, HE WAS JUST A REALLY PASSIONATE PROFESSOR AND TAUGHT
ANYWAY, HE WAS JUST A REALLY PASSIONATE PROFESSOR AND TAUGHT AMERICAN LITERATURE AND TURNED
PASSIONATE PROFESSOR AND TAUGHT AMERICAN LITERATURE AND TURNED ME ONTO WRITERS LIKE JOHN
AMERICAN LITERATURE AND TURNED ME ONTO WRITERS LIKE JOHN SHEIVER, PRINCIPALLY, AND JAMES
ME ONTO WRITERS LIKE JOHN SHEIVER, PRINCIPALLY, AND JAMES AGEE, AND A NUMBER OF TONY
SHEIVER, PRINCIPALLY, AND JAMES AGEE, AND A NUMBER OF TONY MORRISON.
AGEE, AND A NUMBER OF TONY MORRISON. SO THAT WAS THE FIRST -- I TOOK
MORRISON. SO THAT WAS THE FIRST -- I TOOK HIS ENGLISH CLASS FIRST AND THEN
SO THAT WAS THE FIRST -- I TOOK HIS ENGLISH CLASS FIRST AND THEN I TOOK SET STARTED TAKING HIS
HIS ENGLISH CLASS FIRST AND THEN I TOOK SET STARTED TAKING HIS CREATIVE WRITING CLASSES. THEY
I TOOK SET STARTED TAKING HIS CREATIVE WRITING CLASSES. THEY WERE ENORMOUSLY SUPPORTIVE.
CREATIVE WRITING CLASSES. THEY WERE ENORMOUSLY SUPPORTIVE. >>IT WAS A GOOD THING.
WERE ENORMOUSLY SUPPORTIVE. >>IT WAS A GOOD THING. >>INSPIRING, YEAH, IT WAS A GOOD
>>IT WAS A GOOD THING. >>INSPIRING, YEAH, IT WAS A GOOD THING.
>>INSPIRING, YEAH, IT WAS A GOOD THING. AT THE SAME TIME, THE OTHER
THING. AT THE SAME TIME, THE OTHER INTERESTING THING IS MY FATHER
AT THE SAME TIME, THE OTHER INTERESTING THING IS MY FATHER DIED WHILE I WAS IN COLLEGE AND
INTERESTING THING IS MY FATHER DIED WHILE I WAS IN COLLEGE AND CLAYSON'S AND ANOTHER PROFESSOR,
DIED WHILE I WAS IN COLLEGE AND CLAYSON'S AND ANOTHER PROFESSOR, ROBERT WALKER, THEY WERE THE
CLAYSON'S AND ANOTHER PROFESSOR, ROBERT WALKER, THEY WERE THE SAME EXACT AGE AS MY DAD ALL
ROBERT WALKER, THEY WERE THE SAME EXACT AGE AS MY DAD ALL BORN IN 1924.
SAME EXACT AGE AS MY DAD ALL BORN IN 1924. ANYWAY, CLAYSON'S AND WALKER
BORN IN 1924. ANYWAY, CLAYSON'S AND WALKER WERE VERY GOOD FRIENDS. WALKER
ANYWAY, CLAYSON'S AND WALKER WERE VERY GOOD FRIENDS. WALKER WAS A STRAIGHT HISTORY
WERE VERY GOOD FRIENDS. WALKER WAS A STRAIGHT HISTORY PROFESSOR, BUT HE WAS MY
WAS A STRAIGHT HISTORY PROFESSOR, BUT HE WAS MY IMMEDIATE SORT OF ADVISOR HAD IN
PROFESSOR, BUT HE WAS MY IMMEDIATE SORT OF ADVISOR HAD IN MY MAJOR.
IMMEDIATE SORT OF ADVISOR HAD IN MY MAJOR. I SPENT AS MUCH TIME WITH HIM.
MY MAJOR. I SPENT AS MUCH TIME WITH HIM. I HAD THIS REALLY GREAT -- LIKE
I SPENT AS MUCH TIME WITH HIM. I HAD THIS REALLY GREAT -- LIKE I HAD THESE PARENTS AT COLLEGE,
I HAD THIS REALLY GREAT -- LIKE I HAD THESE PARENTS AT COLLEGE, TWO PROFESSORS VERY DIFFERENT
I HAD THESE PARENTS AT COLLEGE, TWO PROFESSORS VERY DIFFERENT FROM EACH OTHER, BUT JUST
TWO PROFESSORS VERY DIFFERENT FROM EACH OTHER, BUT JUST WONDERFUL GUYS AND REALLY KIND
FROM EACH OTHER, BUT JUST WONDERFUL GUYS AND REALLY KIND OF DEFINED MY PATH.
WONDERFUL GUYS AND REALLY KIND OF DEFINED MY PATH. >>AND SO THAT YOU CHOSE
OF DEFINED MY PATH. >>AND SO THAT YOU CHOSE DETECTIVE FICTION BECAUSE YOU
>>AND SO THAT YOU CHOSE DETECTIVE FICTION BECAUSE YOU SIMPLY LIKED IT OR BECAUSE OF
DETECTIVE FICTION BECAUSE YOU SIMPLY LIKED IT OR BECAUSE OF YOUR JOB OR DID YOU FEEL SOME
SIMPLY LIKED IT OR BECAUSE OF YOUR JOB OR DID YOU FEEL SOME COMPULSION WHAT IS GOING ON IN
YOUR JOB OR DID YOU FEEL SOME COMPULSION WHAT IS GOING ON IN SOCIETY?
COMPULSION WHAT IS GOING ON IN SOCIETY? >> ALL THOSE THINGS TOGETHER.
SOCIETY? >> ALL THOSE THINGS TOGETHER. PARTS OF THOSE THINGS, WALKER
>> ALL THOSE THINGS TOGETHER. PARTS OF THOSE THINGS, WALKER PERCY WAS ONE OF THE FIRST
PARTS OF THOSE THINGS, WALKER PERCY WAS ONE OF THE FIRST WRITERS I REALLY FELL IN LOVE
PERCY WAS ONE OF THE FIRST WRITERS I REALLY FELL IN LOVE WERE, AND IT WAS SOMEBODY I CAME
WRITERS I REALLY FELL IN LOVE WERE, AND IT WAS SOMEBODY I CAME TO AS A STUDENT AT GEORGE
WERE, AND IT WAS SOMEBODY I CAME TO AS A STUDENT AT GEORGE WASHINGTON.
TO AS A STUDENT AT GEORGE WASHINGTON. HE WAS "TO NOT BE ONTO
WASHINGTON. HE WAS "TO NOT BE ONTO POSSIBILITY, THE SEARCH IS TO BE
HE WAS "TO NOT BE ONTO POSSIBILITY, THE SEARCH IS TO BE IN DESPAIR."
POSSIBILITY, THE SEARCH IS TO BE IN DESPAIR." HE IS TALKING ABOUT BASICALLY
IN DESPAIR." HE IS TALKING ABOUT BASICALLY SEARCHING FOR MEANING IN LIFE,
HE IS TALKING ABOUT BASICALLY SEARCHING FOR MEANING IN LIFE, BUT TALKING ABOUT PLOTS OF HIS
SEARCHING FOR MEANING IN LIFE, BUT TALKING ABOUT PLOTS OF HIS BOOKS.
BUT TALKING ABOUT PLOTS OF HIS BOOKS. THERE IS A MITT OF MYSTERY,
BOOKS. THERE IS A MITT OF MYSTERY, LITTLE BIT OF OF INTRIGUE
THERE IS A MITT OF MYSTERY, LITTLE BIT OF OF INTRIGUE PURSUING, THEY ARE NOT MYSTERY,
LITTLE BIT OF OF INTRIGUE PURSUING, THEY ARE NOT MYSTERY, CRIME NOVELS, BUT THE THE
PURSUING, THEY ARE NOT MYSTERY, CRIME NOVELS, BUT THE THE SEARCHING, INTRIGUE.
CRIME NOVELS, BUT THE THE SEARCHING, INTRIGUE. ROBERT WALKER, MY PROFESSOR AT
SEARCHING, INTRIGUE. ROBERT WALKER, MY PROFESSOR AT GW, A BIG FAN OF CRIME FICTION,
ROBERT WALKER, MY PROFESSOR AT GW, A BIG FAN OF CRIME FICTION, HE WAS A SOCIAL HISTORIAN WHO
GW, A BIG FAN OF CRIME FICTION, HE WAS A SOCIAL HISTORIAN WHO WAS THE BASIS OF HIS WORK WAS
HE WAS A SOCIAL HISTORIAN WHO WAS THE BASIS OF HIS WORK WAS SOCIAL REFORM IN THE UNITED
WAS THE BASIS OF HIS WORK WAS SOCIAL REFORM IN THE UNITED STATES.
SOCIAL REFORM IN THE UNITED STATES. HE WAS A BIG MYSTERY FAN, AND HE
STATES. HE WAS A BIG MYSTERY FAN, AND HE MADE THE CASE TO ME THAT MYSTERY
HE WAS A BIG MYSTERY FAN, AND HE MADE THE CASE TO ME THAT MYSTERY WRITERS WERE MUCH MORE -- HAD
MADE THE CASE TO ME THAT MYSTERY WRITERS WERE MUCH MORE -- HAD THEIR SLEEVES ROLLED UP AND
WRITERS WERE MUCH MORE -- HAD THEIR SLEEVES ROLLED UP AND HANDS DEEP IN -- THE WORLD.
THEIR SLEEVES ROLLED UP AND HANDS DEEP IN -- THE WORLD. >>THE WORLD AND THE SOCIAL UNDER
HANDS DEEP IN -- THE WORLD. >>THE WORLD AND THE SOCIAL UNDER BELLY OF AMERICA IN WAY THAT
>>THE WORLD AND THE SOCIAL UNDER BELLY OF AMERICA IN WAY THAT MUCH HIGH BROW LITERATURE DID
BELLY OF AMERICA IN WAY THAT MUCH HIGH BROW LITERATURE DID NOT.
MUCH HIGH BROW LITERATURE DID NOT. >>JOHN STEWART MILL, IN HIS
NOT. >>JOHN STEWART MILL, IN HIS PHILOSOPHICAL JUSTIFICATIONS FOR
>>JOHN STEWART MILL, IN HIS PHILOSOPHICAL JUSTIFICATIONS FOR WHATEVER.
PHILOSOPHICAL JUSTIFICATIONS FOR WHATEVER. THAT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT GONE
WHATEVER. THAT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT GONE RAY.
THAT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT GONE RAY. YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT WHAT IS
RAY. YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON NOT WORLD TODAY.
YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON NOT WORLD TODAY. >>RIGHT.
GOING ON NOT WORLD TODAY. >>RIGHT. YES.
>>RIGHT. YES. AND IT IS -- CLOSER TO REALITY.
YES. AND IT IS -- CLOSER TO REALITY. >>SHOULD IT BE GOING ON IN THE
AND IT IS -- CLOSER TO REALITY. >>SHOULD IT BE GOING ON IN THE WORLD TODAY?
>>SHOULD IT BE GOING ON IN THE WORLD TODAY? THAT'S THE EMBEDDED QUESTION.
WORLD TODAY? THAT'S THE EMBEDDED QUESTION. >>THAT WAS NOT MY CHOICE RIGHT
THAT'S THE EMBEDDED QUESTION. >>THAT WAS NOT MY CHOICE RIGHT AWAY.
>>THAT WAS NOT MY CHOICE RIGHT AWAY. I WROTE A BAD AUTO BIOG RA FALL,
AWAY. I WROTE A BAD AUTO BIOG RA FALL, JOHN SHEIVEREST.
I WROTE A BAD AUTO BIOG RA FALL, JOHN SHEIVEREST. >> DIDN'T WORK.
JOHN SHEIVEREST. >> DIDN'T WORK. WHEN I GOT TO THE DAILY SOUTH
>> DIDN'T WORK. WHEN I GOT TO THE DAILY SOUTH TOWN IN CHICAGO AND STARTED
WHEN I GOT TO THE DAILY SOUTH TOWN IN CHICAGO AND STARTED COVERING THOSE TOWNS, SUBURBS,
TOWN IN CHICAGO AND STARTED COVERING THOSE TOWNS, SUBURBS, GRITTY AND OFTENTIMES CORRUPT
COVERING THOSE TOWNS, SUBURBS, GRITTY AND OFTENTIMES CORRUPT PLACES, AND COVERING DEVELOPMENT
GRITTY AND OFTENTIMES CORRUPT PLACES, AND COVERING DEVELOPMENT AND CRIME AND THE WAY THEY ALL
PLACES, AND COVERING DEVELOPMENT AND CRIME AND THE WAY THEY ALL KIND OF MELTED TOGETHER,
AND CRIME AND THE WAY THEY ALL KIND OF MELTED TOGETHER, WHITE-COLLAR CRIME, THAT WAS IN
KIND OF MELTED TOGETHER, WHITE-COLLAR CRIME, THAT WAS IN 1995 WHEN I GOT THAT.
WHITE-COLLAR CRIME, THAT WAS IN 1995 WHEN I GOT THAT. AND THAT'S WHEN I STARTED THE
1995 WHEN I GOT THAT. AND THAT'S WHEN I STARTED THE SEEDS FOR WRITING CRIME FICTION.
AND THAT'S WHEN I STARTED THE SEEDS FOR WRITING CRIME FICTION. >>IT BEGAN THIS.
SEEDS FOR WRITING CRIME FICTION. >>IT BEGAN THIS. >>YES, THAT'S WHERE THAT
>>IT BEGAN THIS. >>YES, THAT'S WHERE THAT STARTED.
>>YES, THAT'S WHERE THAT STARTED. >>YOU YOU WRITE ON OCCASION, ON
STARTED. >>YOU YOU WRITE ON OCCASION, ON THE L BACK AND FORTH FROM WORK
>>YOU YOU WRITE ON OCCASION, ON THE L BACK AND FORTH FROM WORK THIS.
THE L BACK AND FORTH FROM WORK THIS. IT IS WHERE I DO A LOT OF MY
THIS. IT IS WHERE I DO A LOT OF MY WRITING OR REWRITING AND WRITING
IT IS WHERE I DO A LOT OF MY WRITING OR REWRITING AND WRITING BECAUSE THE DEMANDS ON MY TIMING
WRITING OR REWRITING AND WRITING BECAUSE THE DEMANDS ON MY TIMING BOTH AT WORK AND AT HOME, WITH
BECAUSE THE DEMANDS ON MY TIMING BOTH AT WORK AND AT HOME, WITH TWO LITTLE KIDS.
BOTH AT WORK AND AT HOME, WITH TWO LITTLE KIDS. IT IS ROUGHLY AN HOUR, IT IS
TWO LITTLE KIDS. IT IS ROUGHLY AN HOUR, IT IS HALF-HOUR EACH WAY ON L-TRAIN I
IT IS ROUGHLY AN HOUR, IT IS HALF-HOUR EACH WAY ON L-TRAIN I HAVE TO SCRIBBLE AND REWRITE AND
HALF-HOUR EACH WAY ON L-TRAIN I HAVE TO SCRIBBLE AND REWRITE AND EDIT.
HAVE TO SCRIBBLE AND REWRITE AND EDIT. A LOT OF IT IS EDITING AND
EDIT. A LOT OF IT IS EDITING AND REWRITING THAT I DO ON THE
A LOT OF IT IS EDITING AND REWRITING THAT I DO ON THE TRAIN.
REWRITING THAT I DO ON THE TRAIN. REMEMBER THIS QUOTE "OVER THE
TRAIN. REMEMBER THIS QUOTE "OVER THE YEARS, I HAVE BEEN PRETTY SELF
REMEMBER THIS QUOTE "OVER THE YEARS, I HAVE BEEN PRETTY SELF CONSCIOUS ABOUT WRITING."
YEARS, I HAVE BEEN PRETTY SELF CONSCIOUS ABOUT WRITING." >>FROM ME?
CONSCIOUS ABOUT WRITING." >>FROM ME? >> YES.
>>FROM ME? >> YES. >>(LAUGHING) IS THAT IN A BLOG?
>> YES. >>(LAUGHING) IS THAT IN A BLOG? YOU CAN'T TELL ME.
>>(LAUGHING) IS THAT IN A BLOG? YOU CAN'T TELL ME. >>I DIDN'T CONSTRUCT IT MYSELF.
YOU CAN'T TELL ME. >>I DIDN'T CONSTRUCT IT MYSELF. I THINK YOU WILL FIND THAT YOU
>>I DIDN'T CONSTRUCT IT MYSELF. I THINK YOU WILL FIND THAT YOU SAID THAT.
I THINK YOU WILL FIND THAT YOU SAID THAT. >>I PROBABLY DID SAY THAT.
SAID THAT. >>I PROBABLY DID SAY THAT. >>SO THERE WAS A TIME WHERE YOU
>>I PROBABLY DID SAY THAT. >>SO THERE WAS A TIME WHERE YOU WERE -- OH, YEAH, IT WAS TOTAL
>>SO THERE WAS A TIME WHERE YOU WERE -- OH, YEAH, IT WAS TOTAL CLOSET CASE.
WERE -- OH, YEAH, IT WAS TOTAL CLOSET CASE. YOU COME OUT OF THE CLOSET
CLOSET CASE. YOU COME OUT OF THE CLOSET BECAUSE.
YOU COME OUT OF THE CLOSET BECAUSE. >>DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO SHOW
BECAUSE. >>DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO SHOW FOR IT, I THOUGHT.
>>DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO SHOW FOR IT, I THOUGHT. THE SORT OF THING THAT ANNOYED
FOR IT, I THOUGHT. THE SORT OF THING THAT ANNOYED ME WERE PEOPLE WHO TALKED ABOUT
THE SORT OF THING THAT ANNOYED ME WERE PEOPLE WHO TALKED ABOUT BEING WRITERS WITHOUT HAVING ANY
ME WERE PEOPLE WHO TALKED ABOUT BEING WRITERS WITHOUT HAVING ANY ANY -- AS I TOOK THAT ON WITH
BEING WRITERS WITHOUT HAVING ANY ANY -- AS I TOOK THAT ON WITH PERSONA WITHOUT HAVING DONE
ANY -- AS I TOOK THAT ON WITH PERSONA WITHOUT HAVING DONE MUCH. I WAS A GUY WHO WAS
PERSONA WITHOUT HAVING DONE MUCH. I WAS A GUY WHO WAS WRITING.
MUCH. I WAS A GUY WHO WAS WRITING. I HAVEN'T DONE MUCH, I DIDN'T
WRITING. I HAVEN'T DONE MUCH, I DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING PUBLISHED.
I HAVEN'T DONE MUCH, I DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING PUBLISHED. >>BEFORE YOU COULD SAY YOU WERE
HAVE ANYTHING PUBLISHED. >>BEFORE YOU COULD SAY YOU WERE A WRITER, YOU COULD SAY
>>BEFORE YOU COULD SAY YOU WERE A WRITER, YOU COULD SAY PUBLISHED, THAT WAS THE TIPPING
A WRITER, YOU COULD SAY PUBLISHED, THAT WAS THE TIPPING POINT?
PUBLISHED, THAT WAS THE TIPPING POINT? >> EITHER PUBLISHED OR HAVE
POINT? >> EITHER PUBLISHED OR HAVE SOMETHING PRETTY GOOD.
>> EITHER PUBLISHED OR HAVE SOMETHING PRETTY GOOD. >>WHY NOT POETRY?
SOMETHING PRETTY GOOD. >>WHY NOT POETRY? >> WELL, YOU KNOW, MORE THAN
>>WHY NOT POETRY? >> WELL, YOU KNOW, MORE THAN HALF OF MY WRITING COMPASSION TY
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, MORE THAN HALF OF MY WRITING COMPASSION TY IS TAKEN UP BY JOURNALISM.
HALF OF MY WRITING COMPASSION TY IS TAKEN UP BY JOURNALISM. ONLY SO MUCH ROOM FOR ME TO
IS TAKEN UP BY JOURNALISM. ONLY SO MUCH ROOM FOR ME TO WRITE.
ONLY SO MUCH ROOM FOR ME TO WRITE. >>AT THE BEGINNING OF DAVID, WHY
WRITE. >>AT THE BEGINNING OF DAVID, WHY DIDN'T YOU DO POETRY?
>>AT THE BEGINNING OF DAVID, WHY DIDN'T YOU DO POETRY? BECAUSE THAT'S NOT WHAT I LIKED
DIDN'T YOU DO POETRY? BECAUSE THAT'S NOT WHAT I LIKED TO READ I GUESS.
BECAUSE THAT'S NOT WHAT I LIKED TO READ I GUESS. >>WHAT DO YOU READ?
TO READ I GUESS. >>WHAT DO YOU READ? >> WELL, I READ A LOT OF FICTION
>>WHAT DO YOU READ? >> WELL, I READ A LOT OF FICTION I READ SOME NON-FICTION.
>> WELL, I READ A LOT OF FICTION I READ SOME NON-FICTION. WHEN I WAS LEARNING I WANTED TO
I READ SOME NON-FICTION. WHEN I WAS LEARNING I WANTED TO BE A WRITER, I WAS READING
WHEN I WAS LEARNING I WANTED TO BE A WRITER, I WAS READING NOVELS.
BE A WRITER, I WAS READING NOVELS. I WAS READING WALKER PERCY, I
NOVELS. I WAS READING WALKER PERCY, I WAS READ I TOLL STORY.
I WAS READING WALKER PERCY, I WAS READ I TOLL STORY. >>THE CLASSICS?
WAS READ I TOLL STORY. >>THE CLASSICS? >> YES, MOST CALLY CLASSICS,
>>THE CLASSICS? >> YES, MOST CALLY CLASSICS, CATCH-22 WAS A BOOK.
>> YES, MOST CALLY CLASSICS, CATCH-22 WAS A BOOK. >>THAT'S A CLASSIC.
CATCH-22 WAS A BOOK. >>THAT'S A CLASSIC. >>CONTEMPORARY, MODERN CLASSIC.
>>THAT'S A CLASSIC. >>CONTEMPORARY, MODERN CLASSIC. THAT WAS A BOOK THAT REALLY, YOU
>>CONTEMPORARY, MODERN CLASSIC. THAT WAS A BOOK THAT REALLY, YOU KNOW, WHEN A BUNCH OF US READ
THAT WAS A BOOK THAT REALLY, YOU KNOW, WHEN A BUNCH OF US READ THAT IN HIGH SCHOOL, WE WERE
KNOW, WHEN A BUNCH OF US READ THAT IN HIGH SCHOOL, WE WERE TURNED ON THE HILL LAYER TY
THAT IN HIGH SCHOOL, WE WERE TURNED ON THE HILL LAYER TY IT -- HI LAYER TY, IT BECAME A
TURNED ON THE HILL LAYER TY IT -- HI LAYER TY, IT BECAME A MODEL FOR GOOFING OFF, WRITING,
IT -- HI LAYER TY, IT BECAME A MODEL FOR GOOFING OFF, WRITING, BUT I DON'T KNOW, TELLING
MODEL FOR GOOFING OFF, WRITING, BUT I DON'T KNOW, TELLING STORIES.
BUT I DON'T KNOW, TELLING STORIES. >>IS THERE A LITTLE BIT OF
STORIES. >>IS THERE A LITTLE BIT OF COMEDY IN YOUR BOOK THIS.
>>IS THERE A LITTLE BIT OF COMEDY IN YOUR BOOK THIS. >>A LITTLE BIT.
COMEDY IN YOUR BOOK THIS. >>A LITTLE BIT. I HAVE A SECOND ONE I AM HOPING
>>A LITTLE BIT. I HAVE A SECOND ONE I AM HOPING TO PUBLISH THE NEXT YEAR, A
I HAVE A SECOND ONE I AM HOPING TO PUBLISH THE NEXT YEAR, A LITTLE MORE, MOSTLY IN THE
TO PUBLISH THE NEXT YEAR, A LITTLE MORE, MOSTLY IN THE DIALOGUE, MOSTLY IN THE
LITTLE MORE, MOSTLY IN THE DIALOGUE, MOSTLY IN THE ATTITUDES TOWARDS THE CITY AND
DIALOGUE, MOSTLY IN THE ATTITUDES TOWARDS THE CITY AND TOWARDS CRIME, AND THE WAY THESE
ATTITUDES TOWARDS THE CITY AND TOWARDS CRIME, AND THE WAY THESE GUYS I WRITE ABOUT ARE ALL
TOWARDS CRIME, AND THE WAY THESE GUYS I WRITE ABOUT ARE ALL EXCOPS AND THE WAY THEY TALK
GUYS I WRITE ABOUT ARE ALL EXCOPS AND THE WAY THEY TALK ABOUT CRIME AND KNUCKLEHEAD
EXCOPS AND THE WAY THEY TALK ABOUT CRIME AND KNUCKLEHEAD CRIMINALS AND THAT KIND OF
ABOUT CRIME AND KNUCKLEHEAD CRIMINALS AND THAT KIND OF THING.
CRIMINALS AND THAT KIND OF THING. DAVID, THIS MAYBE IS UNFAIR
THING. DAVID, THIS MAYBE IS UNFAIR QUESTION, BUT I WILL ASK IT
DAVID, THIS MAYBE IS UNFAIR QUESTION, BUT I WILL ASK IT ANYWAY: IN GENERAL, IS IT
QUESTION, BUT I WILL ASK IT ANYWAY: IN GENERAL, IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT A DECENT WRITER
ANYWAY: IN GENERAL, IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT A DECENT WRITER MAY TYPICALLY BE DYSFUNCTIONAL?
FAIR TO SAY THAT A DECENT WRITER MAY TYPICALLY BE DYSFUNCTIONAL? >> IT HAPPENS A LOT.
MAY TYPICALLY BE DYSFUNCTIONAL? >> IT HAPPENS A LOT. I HOPE IT IS NOT ME BECAUSE I
>> IT HAPPENS A LOT. I HOPE IT IS NOT ME BECAUSE I HAVE A LOT OF RESPONSIBILITY.
I HOPE IT IS NOT ME BECAUSE I HAVE A LOT OF RESPONSIBILITY. I CAN'T AFFORD TO BE VERY
HAVE A LOT OF RESPONSIBILITY. I CAN'T AFFORD TO BE VERY DYSFUNCTIONAL.
I CAN'T AFFORD TO BE VERY DYSFUNCTIONAL. SOME ARE, SOME AREN'T.
DYSFUNCTIONAL. SOME ARE, SOME AREN'T. SOME GREAT WRITERS HAVE BEEN
SOME ARE, SOME AREN'T. SOME GREAT WRITERS HAVE BEEN EXTREMELY DYSFUNCTIONAL.
SOME GREAT WRITERS HAVE BEEN EXTREMELY DYSFUNCTIONAL. F SCOTT FITZGERALD.
EXTREMELY DYSFUNCTIONAL. F SCOTT FITZGERALD. A LOT OF THAT COMES I THINK FROM
F SCOTT FITZGERALD. A LOT OF THAT COMES I THINK FROM THE SOLITARY NATURE OF WRITING.
A LOT OF THAT COMES I THINK FROM THE SOLITARY NATURE OF WRITING. >>ISOLATION.
THE SOLITARY NATURE OF WRITING. >>ISOLATION. >>ISOLATION, BUT ALSO THE
>>ISOLATION. >>ISOLATION, BUT ALSO THE OBSESSIVE.
>>ISOLATION, BUT ALSO THE OBSESSIVE. IT CAN BE REALLY HARD WORK AND
OBSESSIVE. IT CAN BE REALLY HARD WORK AND IT CAN TAKE UP ENORMOUS AMOUNTS
IT CAN BE REALLY HARD WORK AND IT CAN TAKE UP ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF TIME THEN YOU DON'T HAVE FOR
IT CAN TAKE UP ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF TIME THEN YOU DON'T HAVE FOR OTHER PEOPLE.
OF TIME THEN YOU DON'T HAVE FOR OTHER PEOPLE. >>I THINK OF OTHERS IN THE
OTHER PEOPLE. >>I THINK OF OTHERS IN THE ACCOUNTING PROFESSION, THEY ARE
>>I THINK OF OTHERS IN THE ACCOUNTING PROFESSION, THEY ARE COMPULSIVE, ALMOST TO THE POINT
ACCOUNTING PROFESSION, THEY ARE COMPULSIVE, ALMOST TO THE POINT OF BEING ***.
COMPULSIVE, ALMOST TO THE POINT OF BEING ***. EVERYTHING HAS A FOOT, AND ALL
OF BEING ***. EVERYTHING HAS A FOOT, AND ALL WE ARE DOING IS REPORTING WHAT
EVERYTHING HAS A FOOT, AND ALL WE ARE DOING IS REPORTING WHAT OCCURRED.
WE ARE DOING IS REPORTING WHAT OCCURRED. I THINK THERE IS A CERTAIN THE
OCCURRED. I THINK THERE IS A CERTAIN THE BY OF ISOLATION, ASSOCIATED WITH
I THINK THERE IS A CERTAIN THE BY OF ISOLATION, ASSOCIATED WITH CPA OR ACCOUNTANT, I AM
BY OF ISOLATION, ASSOCIATED WITH CPA OR ACCOUNTANT, I AM DENIGRATING REPORTING, IF YOU
CPA OR ACCOUNTANT, I AM DENIGRATING REPORTING, IF YOU WILL, THAT SORT OF COMPULSION
DENIGRATING REPORTING, IF YOU WILL, THAT SORT OF COMPULSION AND ISOLATION CERTAINLY EXISTS
WILL, THAT SORT OF COMPULSION AND ISOLATION CERTAINLY EXISTS IN POI , ETCETERA.
AND ISOLATION CERTAINLY EXISTS IN POI , ETCETERA. >>RIGHT.
IN POI , ETCETERA. >>RIGHT. >>THAT'S THE NATURE OF THE
>>RIGHT. >>THAT'S THE NATURE OF THE ANIMAL.
>>THAT'S THE NATURE OF THE ANIMAL. AND THAT IS OKAY.
ANIMAL. AND THAT IS OKAY. >>IT CAN BE.
AND THAT IS OKAY. >>IT CAN BE. IT CAN BE REALLY NOT OKAY FOR
>>IT CAN BE. IT CAN BE REALLY NOT OKAY FOR THE PEOPLE AROUND THOSE PEOPLE
IT CAN BE REALLY NOT OKAY FOR THE PEOPLE AROUND THOSE PEOPLE SOMETIMES.
THE PEOPLE AROUND THOSE PEOPLE SOMETIMES. BUT THE BALANCE FOR ME HAS BEEN
SOMETIMES. BUT THE BALANCE FOR ME HAS BEEN JOURNALISM BECAUSE JOURNALISM IS
BUT THE BALANCE FOR ME HAS BEEN JOURNALISM BECAUSE JOURNALISM IS REALLY COLLABORATIVE AND IT
JOURNALISM BECAUSE JOURNALISM IS REALLY COLLABORATIVE AND IT FORCES YOU NOT TO WITHDRAW, BUT
REALLY COLLABORATIVE AND IT FORCES YOU NOT TO WITHDRAW, BUT TO GO OUT.
FORCES YOU NOT TO WITHDRAW, BUT TO GO OUT. AND THAT WAS THE THING THAT WAS
TO GO OUT. AND THAT WAS THE THING THAT WAS GOOD TORE ME EARLY IN MY CAREER
AND THAT WAS THE THING THAT WAS GOOD TORE ME EARLY IN MY CAREER AS A REPORTER WAS, YOU KNOW, THE
GOOD TORE ME EARLY IN MY CAREER AS A REPORTER WAS, YOU KNOW, THE ABSOLUTE REQUIREMENT OF THE
AS A REPORTER WAS, YOU KNOW, THE ABSOLUTE REQUIREMENT OF THE DEADLINE TO PICK UP THE PHONE
ABSOLUTE REQUIREMENT OF THE DEADLINE TO PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL STRANGERS, TO GO OUT
DEADLINE TO PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL STRANGERS, TO GO OUT AND KNOCK ON THE DOORS OF
AND CALL STRANGERS, TO GO OUT AND KNOCK ON THE DOORS OF STRANGERS AND ALL THAT.
AND KNOCK ON THE DOORS OF STRANGERS AND ALL THAT. BECAUSE IT IS STUFF THAT DIDN'T
STRANGERS AND ALL THAT. BECAUSE IT IS STUFF THAT DIDN'T COME NATURALLY TO ME.
BECAUSE IT IS STUFF THAT DIDN'T COME NATURALLY TO ME. BUT THE -- YOU KNOW, THE NATURE
COME NATURALLY TO ME. BUT THE -- YOU KNOW, THE NATURE OF THE WORK IN JOURNALISM, AND
BUT THE -- YOU KNOW, THE NATURE OF THE WORK IN JOURNALISM, AND THEN WRITING, YOU KNOW, WRITING
OF THE WORK IN JOURNALISM, AND THEN WRITING, YOU KNOW, WRITING WITH OTHER PEOPLE AND BEING
THEN WRITING, YOU KNOW, WRITING WITH OTHER PEOPLE AND BEING EDITED RIGHT THEN BY OTHER
WITH OTHER PEOPLE AND BEING EDITED RIGHT THEN BY OTHER PEOPLE, WRITING A NEWSPAPER
EDITED RIGHT THEN BY OTHER PEOPLE, WRITING A NEWSPAPER STORY, IT IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM
PEOPLE, WRITING A NEWSPAPER STORY, IT IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM FICTION WRITING.
STORY, IT IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM FICTION WRITING. >>WHICH IS COMPLETELY.
FICTION WRITING. >>WHICH IS COMPLETELY. >>NOT COMPLETELY, BUT SOLITARY.
>>WHICH IS COMPLETELY. >>NOT COMPLETELY, BUT SOLITARY. I AM THINKING IN HISTORY, FOR
>>NOT COMPLETELY, BUT SOLITARY. I AM THINKING IN HISTORY, FOR EXAMPLE, THE ISSUE IS WHAT ARE
I AM THINKING IN HISTORY, FOR EXAMPLE, THE ISSUE IS WHAT ARE YOUR PRIMARY SOURCES OF
EXAMPLE, THE ISSUE IS WHAT ARE YOUR PRIMARY SOURCES OF FOOTNOTE.
YOUR PRIMARY SOURCES OF FOOTNOTE. IT IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT MIND SET
FOOTNOTE. IT IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT MIND SET TO THE HISTORIAN THAN TO BE A
IT IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT MIND SET TO THE HISTORIAN THAN TO BE A POET.
TO THE HISTORIAN THAN TO BE A POET. >>RIGHT.
POET. >>RIGHT. >>ON THE SPECTRUM OF LET'S SAY
>>RIGHT. >>ON THE SPECTRUM OF LET'S SAY HISTORIAN, AND THEN WITH POET,
>>ON THE SPECTRUM OF LET'S SAY HISTORIAN, AND THEN WITH POET, WHERE DO YOU FEEL YOU FALL?
HISTORIAN, AND THEN WITH POET, WHERE DO YOU FEEL YOU FALL? >> OH, PROBABLY IN THE MIDDLE --
WHERE DO YOU FEEL YOU FALL? >> OH, PROBABLY IN THE MIDDLE -- YOU MEAN AS FICTION --
>> OH, PROBABLY IN THE MIDDLE -- YOU MEAN AS FICTION -- >>YOUR HEAD, IN YOUR HEAD.
YOU MEAN AS FICTION -- >>YOUR HEAD, IN YOUR HEAD. THE HISTORIAN.
>>YOUR HEAD, IN YOUR HEAD. THE HISTORIAN. >>IN THE MIDDLE.
THE HISTORIAN. >>IN THE MIDDLE. >>GETTING LETTERS TO SEE WHAT
>>IN THE MIDDLE. >>GETTING LETTERS TO SEE WHAT FALKNER SAID, AND THE POET IS IN
>>GETTING LETTERS TO SEE WHAT FALKNER SAID, AND THE POET IS IN POET'S HEAD.
FALKNER SAID, AND THE POET IS IN POET'S HEAD. WHAT IS DIFFERENT.
POET'S HEAD. WHAT IS DIFFERENT. >>I MIGHT BE A LITTLE MORE THAN
WHAT IS DIFFERENT. >>I MIGHT BE A LITTLE MORE THAN HISTORIAN.
>>I MIGHT BE A LITTLE MORE THAN HISTORIAN. BECAUSE I AM INTERESTED IN
HISTORIAN. BECAUSE I AM INTERESTED IN WRITING ABOUT REAL THINGS AB
BECAUSE I AM INTERESTED IN WRITING ABOUT REAL THINGS AB INTERPRETING REAL THINGS.
WRITING ABOUT REAL THINGS AB INTERPRETING REAL THINGS. >>I DON'T KNOW THERE IS THAT
INTERPRETING REAL THINGS. >>I DON'T KNOW THERE IS THAT WIDE OF DIVIDE.
>>I DON'T KNOW THERE IS THAT WIDE OF DIVIDE. I THINK A LOST POETS ARE -- CAN
WIDE OF DIVIDE. I THINK A LOST POETS ARE -- CAN BE FIRMLY ROOTED IN REAL
I THINK A LOST POETS ARE -- CAN BE FIRMLY ROOTED IN REAL EXPERIENCE.
BE FIRMLY ROOTED IN REAL EXPERIENCE. >>I AM THINKING OF LAKE
EXPERIENCE. >>I AM THINKING OF LAKE MICHIGAN, I AM THINKING OF THE
>>I AM THINKING OF LAKE MICHIGAN, I AM THINKING OF THE COVER OF YOUR BOOK, THE TOP IS
MICHIGAN, I AM THINKING OF THE COVER OF YOUR BOOK, THE TOP IS WHEREVER ONE TYPICALLY IS ON THE
COVER OF YOUR BOOK, THE TOP IS WHEREVER ONE TYPICALLY IS ON THE WATER.
WHEREVER ONE TYPICALLY IS ON THE WATER. THEN THE CREATIVE WRITER MAYBE
WATER. THEN THE CREATIVE WRITER MAYBE SUBMERGED A LITTLE BIT, AND
THEN THE CREATIVE WRITER MAYBE SUBMERGED A LITTLE BIT, AND HISTORIAN IS FLYING AROUND
SUBMERGED A LITTLE BIT, AND HISTORIAN IS FLYING AROUND LOOKING AROUND SEEING WHAT IS
HISTORIAN IS FLYING AROUND LOOKING AROUND SEEING WHAT IS HAPPENING.
LOOKING AROUND SEEING WHAT IS HAPPENING. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT MAKES ANY
HAPPENING. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT MAKES ANY SENSE.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT MAKES ANY SENSE. >>IT DOES, YES.
SENSE. >>IT DOES, YES. >>DAVID, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE
>>IT DOES, YES. >>DAVID, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN REPORTING AND JOURNALISM
>>DAVID, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN REPORTING AND JOURNALISM OR IS THERE NO DIFFERENCE?
BETWEEN REPORTING AND JOURNALISM OR IS THERE NO DIFFERENCE? >> OH, I CALL WHAT I DO
OR IS THERE NO DIFFERENCE? >> OH, I CALL WHAT I DO REPORTING WHICH IS JOURNALISM.
>> OH, I CALL WHAT I DO REPORTING WHICH IS JOURNALISM. SO JOURNALISM IS -- IT IS JUST
REPORTING WHICH IS JOURNALISM. SO JOURNALISM IS -- IT IS JUST MY SUBSET OF JOURNALISM IS BEING
SO JOURNALISM IS -- IT IS JUST MY SUBSET OF JOURNALISM IS BEING A REPORTER.
MY SUBSET OF JOURNALISM IS BEING A REPORTER. YOU CAN BE EDITOR.
A REPORTER. YOU CAN BE EDITOR. YOU CAN BE A COLUMNIST, ALTHOUGH
YOU CAN BE EDITOR. YOU CAN BE A COLUMNIST, ALTHOUGH I DO WRITE THIS BLOG WHICH IS A
YOU CAN BE A COLUMNIST, ALTHOUGH I DO WRITE THIS BLOG WHICH IS A COLUMN WHICH IS SEPARATE FOR MY
I DO WRITE THIS BLOG WHICH IS A COLUMN WHICH IS SEPARATE FOR MY WORK FOR THE CHICAGO TRIBUNE.
COLUMN WHICH IS SEPARATE FOR MY WORK FOR THE CHICAGO TRIBUNE. AS A WORKING JOURNALISM, I AM A
WORK FOR THE CHICAGO TRIBUNE. AS A WORKING JOURNALISM, I AM A REPORTER WHICH MEANS THE THINGS
AS A WORKING JOURNALISM, I AM A REPORTER WHICH MEANS THE THINGS I WRITE ARE HAVE TO BE TRUE.
REPORTER WHICH MEANS THE THINGS I WRITE ARE HAVE TO BE TRUE. THEY HAVE TO BE -- THEY HAVE TO
I WRITE ARE HAVE TO BE TRUE. THEY HAVE TO BE -- THEY HAVE TO PASS -- IT IS MORE LIKE
THEY HAVE TO BE -- THEY HAVE TO PASS -- IT IS MORE LIKE HISTORIAN, BUT DEALING ABOUT
PASS -- IT IS MORE LIKE HISTORIAN, BUT DEALING ABOUT CURRENT EVENTS WHERE YOU ARE
HISTORIAN, BUT DEALING ABOUT CURRENT EVENTS WHERE YOU ARE SIGHTING SOURCES WHICH TEND TO
CURRENT EVENTS WHERE YOU ARE SIGHTING SOURCES WHICH TEND TO BE PEOPLE OR DOCUMENTS.
SIGHTING SOURCES WHICH TEND TO BE PEOPLE OR DOCUMENTS. YOU ARE GOING OUT AND FINDING
BE PEOPLE OR DOCUMENTS. YOU ARE GOING OUT AND FINDING STORIES AND REPORTING THEM OUT
YOU ARE GOING OUT AND FINDING STORIES AND REPORTING THEM OUT AND THEN WRITING THEM UP AND
STORIES AND REPORTING THEM OUT AND THEN WRITING THEM UP AND TRYING TO PRESENT THEM TO PEOPLE
AND THEN WRITING THEM UP AND TRYING TO PRESENT THEM TO PEOPLE IN WAY THAT MAKES SENSE.
TRYING TO PRESENT THEM TO PEOPLE IN WAY THAT MAKES SENSE. PART OF YOUR WORLD IS SALES,
IN WAY THAT MAKES SENSE. PART OF YOUR WORLD IS SALES, SELLING YOURSELF TO THE SUBJECT
PART OF YOUR WORLD IS SALES, SELLING YOURSELF TO THE SUBJECT TO GET INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR
SELLING YOURSELF TO THE SUBJECT TO GET INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR ARTICLE?
TO GET INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR ARTICLE? >> YES.
ARTICLE? >> YES. >>YOU ARE IN SALES A LITTLE BIT?
>> YES. >>YOU ARE IN SALES A LITTLE BIT? >> WELL, IN THE SAME WAY
>>YOU ARE IN SALES A LITTLE BIT? >> WELL, IN THE SAME WAY ANYBODY -- YES, IN ORDER TO
>> WELL, IN THE SAME WAY ANYBODY -- YES, IN ORDER TO PERSUADE PEOPLE TO TALK TO YOU.
ANYBODY -- YES, IN ORDER TO PERSUADE PEOPLE TO TALK TO YOU. >>FIRST OF ALL, TRUST ME.
PERSUADE PEOPLE TO TALK TO YOU. >>FIRST OF ALL, TRUST ME. >>ISN'T THAT SALES?
>>FIRST OF ALL, TRUST ME. >>ISN'T THAT SALES? >> YEAH.
>>ISN'T THAT SALES? >> YEAH. >>YOU ARE SELLING AN IDEA, YOU
>> YEAH. >>YOU ARE SELLING AN IDEA, YOU ARE SELLING A RELATIONSHIP.
>>YOU ARE SELLING AN IDEA, YOU ARE SELLING A RELATIONSHIP. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH
ARE SELLING A RELATIONSHIP. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT, THINKING OF JOURNALISM,
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT, THINKING OF JOURNALISM, REPORTING, I HAVE ON MY DESK
THAT, THINKING OF JOURNALISM, REPORTING, I HAVE ON MY DESK HERE, "NEW YORK TIMES, WALL
REPORTING, I HAVE ON MY DESK HERE, "NEW YORK TIMES, WALL STREET JOURNAL, U.S.A. TODAY,.
HERE, "NEW YORK TIMES, WALL STREET JOURNAL, U.S.A. TODAY,. >>WHERE IS YOUR CHICAGO TRIBUNE?
STREET JOURNAL, U.S.A. TODAY,. >>WHERE IS YOUR CHICAGO TRIBUNE? >> I COULDN'T FIND IT
>>WHERE IS YOUR CHICAGO TRIBUNE? >> I COULDN'T FIND IT (LAUGHING).
>> I COULDN'T FIND IT (LAUGHING). NO ONE COULD DELIVER IT TO THE
(LAUGHING). NO ONE COULD DELIVER IT TO THE CITY OF PEORIA.
NO ONE COULD DELIVER IT TO THE CITY OF PEORIA. FOR THE SUN TYPES.
CITY OF PEORIA. FOR THE SUN TYPES. MY MOTHER USED TO HAVE IT
FOR THE SUN TYPES. MY MOTHER USED TO HAVE IT DELIVERED TO HER DOOR IN
MY MOTHER USED TO HAVE IT DELIVERED TO HER DOOR IN METAMORA.
DELIVERED TO HER DOOR IN METAMORA. SHE IS NOT HAPPY.
METAMORA. SHE IS NOT HAPPY. >>I LOOK AT THE ECONOMIST AS
SHE IS NOT HAPPY. >>I LOOK AT THE ECONOMIST AS PERHAPS JOURNALISM AND THE NEW
>>I LOOK AT THE ECONOMIST AS PERHAPS JOURNALISM AND THE NEW YORK TIMES, KIND OF ZOO FOR
PERHAPS JOURNALISM AND THE NEW YORK TIMES, KIND OF ZOO FOR GETTING ABOUT THE POLITICAL
YORK TIMES, KIND OF ZOO FOR GETTING ABOUT THE POLITICAL SLANT, THE ECONOMIST IS FAIRLY
GETTING ABOUT THE POLITICAL SLANT, THE ECONOMIST IS FAIRLY OBJECTIVE.
SLANT, THE ECONOMIST IS FAIRLY OBJECTIVE. IT BUGS ME.
OBJECTIVE. IT BUGS ME. WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT
IT BUGS ME. WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT POLITICAL SLANT, ARE YOU TALKING
WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT POLITICAL SLANT, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT EDITORIAL PAGE.
POLITICAL SLANT, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT EDITORIAL PAGE. YEAH.
ABOUT EDITORIAL PAGE. YEAH. A LOT OF THE NEWS, LET'S TALK
YEAH. A LOT OF THE NEWS, LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT.
A LOT OF THE NEWS, LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT. IS THERE A BIAS IN REPORTING?
ABOUT THAT. IS THERE A BIAS IN REPORTING? >> NOT AS MUCH AS PEOPLE WITH
IS THERE A BIAS IN REPORTING? >> NOT AS MUCH AS PEOPLE WITH AUDIO ON CAL EVENTS WOULD LIKE
>> NOT AS MUCH AS PEOPLE WITH AUDIO ON CAL EVENTS WOULD LIKE TO BELIEVE.
AUDIO ON CAL EVENTS WOULD LIKE TO BELIEVE. BUT IT IS LIKE BEING A LITTLE
TO BELIEVE. BUT IT IS LIKE BEING A LITTLE PREGNANT.
BUT IT IS LIKE BEING A LITTLE PREGNANT. HOW CAN YOU DO THAT DOES -- HOW
PREGNANT. HOW CAN YOU DO THAT DOES -- HOW CAN YOU DIVORCE YOURSELF.
HOW CAN YOU DO THAT DOES -- HOW CAN YOU DIVORCE YOURSELF. THE BIAS DECISION IS IN WHAT
CAN YOU DIVORCE YOURSELF. THE BIAS DECISION IS IN WHAT STORIES TO DO AND WHATNOT TO DO.
THE BIAS DECISION IS IN WHAT STORIES TO DO AND WHATNOT TO DO. >>YOU DESCRIBE A PERSON WITH RED
STORIES TO DO AND WHATNOT TO DO. >>YOU DESCRIBE A PERSON WITH RED SHOES OR DON'T MENTION THE
>>YOU DESCRIBE A PERSON WITH RED SHOES OR DON'T MENTION THE SHOES.
SHOES OR DON'T MENTION THE SHOES. DOESN'T THIS SAY SOMETHING IF
SHOES. DOESN'T THIS SAY SOMETHING IF THIS LADY HAS RED SHOES, VERSUS
DOESN'T THIS SAY SOMETHING IF THIS LADY HAS RED SHOES, VERSUS NOT MAKING REFERENCE TO THE
THIS LADY HAS RED SHOES, VERSUS NOT MAKING REFERENCE TO THE SHOES,.
NOT MAKING REFERENCE TO THE SHOES,. >>IS THAT BIAS OR DOES
SHOES,. >>IS THAT BIAS OR DOES DESCRIPTION HAVE TO BE BIASED?
>>IS THAT BIAS OR DOES DESCRIPTION HAVE TO BE BIASED? YOU LOOK AT SOMEBODY AND SIZE
DESCRIPTION HAVE TO BE BIASED? YOU LOOK AT SOMEBODY AND SIZE THEM UP.
YOU LOOK AT SOMEBODY AND SIZE THEM UP. YOU MAKE JUDGMENTS, YEAH.
THEM UP. YOU MAKE JUDGMENTS, YEAH. I AM NOT SUGGESTING THERE IS
YOU MAKE JUDGMENTS, YEAH. I AM NOT SUGGESTING THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT, BUT I
I AM NOT SUGGESTING THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT, BUT I AM SAYING YOU ARE A HUMAN BEING.
SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT, BUT I AM SAYING YOU ARE A HUMAN BEING. >>THAT'S RIGHT.
AM SAYING YOU ARE A HUMAN BEING. >>THAT'S RIGHT. >>YOU CAN'T DIVORCE YOUR
>>THAT'S RIGHT. >>YOU CAN'T DIVORCE YOUR METAMORA EXPERIENCES WITH THE
>>YOU CAN'T DIVORCE YOUR METAMORA EXPERIENCES WITH THE SHOTGUN FROM WHAT YOU ARE DOING
METAMORA EXPERIENCES WITH THE SHOTGUN FROM WHAT YOU ARE DOING IT TODAY.
SHOTGUN FROM WHAT YOU ARE DOING IT TODAY. >>RIGHT THAT'S TRUE.
IT TODAY. >>RIGHT THAT'S TRUE. BUT WHAT WE STARTED OUTTALKING
>>RIGHT THAT'S TRUE. BUT WHAT WE STARTED OUTTALKING ABOUT WAS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
BUT WHAT WE STARTED OUTTALKING ABOUT WAS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A POLITICAL SLANT OF A NEWSPAPER
ABOUT WAS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A POLITICAL SLANT OF A NEWSPAPER WHICH IS EDITORIAL, THE TRIBUNE
A POLITICAL SLANT OF A NEWSPAPER WHICH IS EDITORIAL, THE TRIBUNE IS, YOU KNOW, FOR MOST OF ITS
WHICH IS EDITORIAL, THE TRIBUNE IS, YOU KNOW, FOR MOST OF ITS HISTORY SLANT CONSERVE VA I HAVE
IS, YOU KNOW, FOR MOST OF ITS HISTORY SLANT CONSERVE VA I HAVE IT.
HISTORY SLANT CONSERVE VA I HAVE IT. NEW YORK TIMES IS SLANTED.
IT. NEW YORK TIMES IS SLANTED. ALL NEWSPAPERS TEND TO BE TAGGED
NEW YORK TIMES IS SLANTED. ALL NEWSPAPERS TEND TO BE TAGGED AS LIBERAL.
ALL NEWSPAPERS TEND TO BE TAGGED AS LIBERAL. AND MOST REPORTERS THAT I KNOW
AS LIBERAL. AND MOST REPORTERS THAT I KNOW ARE SO -- HAVE ENOUGH EXPERIENCE
AND MOST REPORTERS THAT I KNOW ARE SO -- HAVE ENOUGH EXPERIENCE TO BE SKEPTICAL OF ALL KINDS
ARE SO -- HAVE ENOUGH EXPERIENCE TO BE SKEPTICAL OF ALL KINDS OF -- THE WHOLE SPECTRUM OF
TO BE SKEPTICAL OF ALL KINDS OF -- THE WHOLE SPECTRUM OF IDEOLOGY,.
OF -- THE WHOLE SPECTRUM OF IDEOLOGY,. >>AND HUMAN BEHAVIOR.
IDEOLOGY,. >>AND HUMAN BEHAVIOR. >>YES.
>>AND HUMAN BEHAVIOR. >>YES. TO TALK ABOUT YOUR BOOK, AND
>>YES. TO TALK ABOUT YOUR BOOK, AND SARAH PERETZKI, AUTHOR OF 16, 17
TO TALK ABOUT YOUR BOOK, AND SARAH PERETZKI, AUTHOR OF 16, 17 BOOKS, MILLION SOLD.
SARAH PERETZKI, AUTHOR OF 16, 17 BOOKS, MILLION SOLD. I THINK I CAN GET TO THE HEART
BOOKS, MILLION SOLD. I THINK I CAN GET TO THE HEART OF YOUR BOOK BY QUOTING HER.
I THINK I CAN GET TO THE HEART OF YOUR BOOK BY QUOTING HER. BEAR WITH ME.
OF YOUR BOOK BY QUOTING HER. BEAR WITH ME. LOOKING AT CHICAGO'S POLITICAL
BEAR WITH ME. LOOKING AT CHICAGO'S POLITICAL UNDER BELLY.
LOOKING AT CHICAGO'S POLITICAL UNDER BELLY. HEINZMANN KNOWS WHAT MAKES THE
UNDER BELLY. HEINZMANN KNOWS WHAT MAKES THE CITY THAT WORKS TICK AND THE
HEINZMANN KNOWS WHAT MAKES THE CITY THAT WORKS TICK AND THE LINE HE DRAWS BETWEEN THE
CITY THAT WORKS TICK AND THE LINE HE DRAWS BETWEEN THE OUTFIT, CITY HALL AND CHICAGO'S
LINE HE DRAWS BETWEEN THE OUTFIT, CITY HALL AND CHICAGO'S LEGAL AND CORPORATE PLAYERS WILL
OUTFIT, CITY HALL AND CHICAGO'S LEGAL AND CORPORATE PLAYERS WILL MAKE YOUR BLOOD RUN COLD.
LEGAL AND CORPORATE PLAYERS WILL MAKE YOUR BLOOD RUN COLD. >> IT WAS VERY NICE QUOTE FROM
MAKE YOUR BLOOD RUN COLD. >> IT WAS VERY NICE QUOTE FROM SARAH.
>> IT WAS VERY NICE QUOTE FROM SARAH. >>IS THAT WHAT IS THE BOOK IS
SARAH. >>IS THAT WHAT IS THE BOOK IS ABOUT?
>>IS THAT WHAT IS THE BOOK IS ABOUT? >> PRETTY MUCH, YEAH.
ABOUT? >> PRETTY MUCH, YEAH. AUGUSTINE TAG IS A PROTAGONIST,
>> PRETTY MUCH, YEAH. AUGUSTINE TAG IS A PROTAGONIST, F.B.I. AGENT.
AUGUSTINE TAG IS A PROTAGONIST, F.B.I. AGENT. >>WHY THE NAME FLOOD?
F.B.I. AGENT. >>WHY THE NAME FLOOD? >> I LIKE T IT IS A FAMILY NAME
>>WHY THE NAME FLOOD? >> I LIKE T IT IS A FAMILY NAME FROM STARK COUNTY.
>> I LIKE T IT IS A FAMILY NAME FROM STARK COUNTY. MY MOTHER HAD COUSINS NAMED
FROM STARK COUNTY. MY MOTHER HAD COUSINS NAMED FLOOD.
MY MOTHER HAD COUSINS NAMED FLOOD. I LIKED IT.
FLOOD. I LIKED IT. IT IT IS SHORT.
I LIKED IT. IT IT IS SHORT. PROVOCATIVE OF OMINOUS THINGS.
IT IT IS SHORT. PROVOCATIVE OF OMINOUS THINGS. AND IT IS AN AYE ARE RICH NAME.
PROVOCATIVE OF OMINOUS THINGS. AND IT IS AN AYE ARE RICH NAME. THAT'S A GOOD DIRECTION TO GO IN
AND IT IS AN AYE ARE RICH NAME. THAT'S A GOOD DIRECTION TO GO IN CHICAGO.
THAT'S A GOOD DIRECTION TO GO IN CHICAGO. >>THE BOOK SOUNDS LIKE KATHLEEN
CHICAGO. >>THE BOOK SOUNDS LIKE KATHLEEN TURNER, THE OTHER SIDE.
>>THE BOOK SOUNDS LIKE KATHLEEN TURNER, THE OTHER SIDE. ORDINANCES, I MEAN THERE IS
TURNER, THE OTHER SIDE. ORDINANCES, I MEAN THERE IS SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR
ORDINANCES, I MEAN THERE IS SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR PRESENTATION THAT RESEMBLED --
SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR PRESENTATION THAT RESEMBLED -- >>IF YOU WRITE ABOUT CRIME IN
PRESENTATION THAT RESEMBLED -- >>IF YOU WRITE ABOUT CRIME IN CHICAGO ON ANY TRYING ON ANY
>>IF YOU WRITE ABOUT CRIME IN CHICAGO ON ANY TRYING ON ANY KIND OF A LARGER CANVAS, YOU
CHICAGO ON ANY TRYING ON ANY KIND OF A LARGER CANVAS, YOU PROBABLY ARE GOING TO HAVE
KIND OF A LARGER CANVAS, YOU PROBABLY ARE GOING TO HAVE POLITICS AND ORGANIZED CRIME
PROBABLY ARE GOING TO HAVE POLITICS AND ORGANIZED CRIME INTERSECTING.
POLITICS AND ORGANIZED CRIME INTERSECTING. SO, YEAH, AND SO FLOOD IS SORT
INTERSECTING. SO, YEAH, AND SO FLOOD IS SORT OF A PI, HE IS A LAWYER, BUT HE
SO, YEAH, AND SO FLOOD IS SORT OF A PI, HE IS A LAWYER, BUT HE IS EXF.B.I. AGENT.
OF A PI, HE IS A LAWYER, BUT HE IS EXF.B.I. AGENT. HE TENDS TO GET INVOLVED IN
IS EXF.B.I. AGENT. HE TENDS TO GET INVOLVED IN CASES THAT HAVE THIS
HE TENDS TO GET INVOLVED IN CASES THAT HAVE THIS INVESTIGATIVE.
CASES THAT HAVE THIS INVESTIGATIVE. >>DEFENSE COUNSEL FOR INSURANCE
INVESTIGATIVE. >>DEFENSE COUNSEL FOR INSURANCE COMPANIES.
>>DEFENSE COUNSEL FOR INSURANCE COMPANIES. >>RIGHT, AND IN THIS CASE, A
COMPANIES. >>RIGHT, AND IN THIS CASE, A POLITICALLY CONNECTED CLIENT HAS
>>RIGHT, AND IN THIS CASE, A POLITICALLY CONNECTED CLIENT HAS THIS PROBLEM OF NEEDS TO FIND
POLITICALLY CONNECTED CLIENT HAS THIS PROBLEM OF NEEDS TO FIND HIS WIFE AND NEGOTIATE WITH HIS
THIS PROBLEM OF NEEDS TO FIND HIS WIFE AND NEGOTIATE WITH HIS WIFE TO -- THEY ARE ESTRANGED
HIS WIFE AND NEGOTIATE WITH HIS WIFE TO -- THEY ARE ESTRANGED AND HE NEEDS TO GET ACCESS TO A
WIFE TO -- THEY ARE ESTRANGED AND HE NEEDS TO GET ACCESS TO A BANK ACCOUNT THEY HAVE GOT.
AND HE NEEDS TO GET ACCESS TO A BANK ACCOUNT THEY HAVE GOT. >>OFFSHORE.
BANK ACCOUNT THEY HAVE GOT. >>OFFSHORE. >>OFFSHORE IN THE KAY MENS.
>>OFFSHORE. >>OFFSHORE IN THE KAY MENS. THEY COME TO FLOOD ASKING HIM TO
>>OFFSHORE IN THE KAY MENS. THEY COME TO FLOOD ASKING HIM TO DEAL WITH THE ESTRANGED WIFE.
THEY COME TO FLOOD ASKING HIM TO DEAL WITH THE ESTRANGED WIFE. >>DAVID I MUST TELL YOU, THIS
DEAL WITH THE ESTRANGED WIFE. >>DAVID I MUST TELL YOU, THIS HAS BEEN AN INTERESTING
>>DAVID I MUST TELL YOU, THIS HAS BEEN AN INTERESTING DISCUSSION.
HAS BEEN AN INTERESTING DISCUSSION. >>A BALL.
DISCUSSION. >>A BALL. >>INTERESTING EXPERIENCE, I WISH
>>A BALL. >>INTERESTING EXPERIENCE, I WISH WE HAD A COUPLE, THREE MORE
>>INTERESTING EXPERIENCE, I WISH WE HAD A COUPLE, THREE MORE HOURS.
WE HAD A COUPLE, THREE MORE HOURS. >>ANY TIME, I'D LOVE TO COME
HOURS. >>ANY TIME, I'D LOVE TO COME BACK.
>>ANY TIME, I'D LOVE TO COME BACK. >>MY PLEASURE.
BACK. >>MY PLEASURE. >> THANK YOU.
>>MY PLEASURE. >> THANK YOU. >>THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> THANK YOU. >>THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >>