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>>> THANKS FOR DISRUPTING YOUR
AFTERNOON AND HAPPY FATHER'S
DAY.
I'M KAREN FINNEY, LET'S GET
STARTED.
>> DOES THE PRESIDENT FEEL THAT
HE HAS VIOLATED THE PRIVACY OF
ANY AMERICA?
>> HE DOES NOT.
>> WHAT DO YOU THINK OF EDWARD
SNOWDEN?
>> I THINK HE'S A TRAITOR.
>> SNOWDEN'S WRONG.
HE COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE DONE
THE THINGS HE CLAIMED HE WAS
ABLE TO DO.
>> I HAVE TROUBLE BELIEVING THIS
SOMEBODY IN HIS POSITION, AS A
CONTRACT EMPLOYEE, HAD ACCESS TO
THE KIND OF THINGS HE IS TALKING
ABOUT.
>> THE GOVERNMENT GRANTS
GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES AND
GOVERNMENT CONTRACTORS
CLEARANCES.
SO THIS IS A GOVERNMENT ISSUE.
>> THE PRESIDENT WELL COMES A
PUBLIC DEBATE ON THESE QUESTIONS
BECAUSE HE DOES SAY BE AND WILL
SAY AGAIN IN DAYS AHEAD, THAT WE
HAVE TO FIND THE RIGHT BALANCE.
>> THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES AUGHT TO BE ABLE TO STAND
UP AND SAY, THIS IS A RIGHTEOUS
PROGRAM, RIGHT PROGRAM AND
SAVING AMERICAN LIVES AND I
SUPPORT IT.
>> OVERSEEN BY CONGRESS, BRIEFED
AGGRESSIVELY TO EVERY MEMBER OF
CONGRESS.
>> WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE
PRESIDENT SUGGESTING, WELL I HAD
TO --
>> I DON'T PAY ALLOT OF
ATTENTION, FRANKLY, TO WHAT
BARACK OBAMA SAYS.
I'M OBVIOUSLY AN FAN OF THE
INCUMBENT PRESIDENT.
>> HEY THERE, VERY HAVE A LOT
HAPPENING THIS AFTERNOON.
THE PRESIDENT IS A FEW HOURS
AWAY FROM THE G-8 SUMMIT IN
NORTHERN IRELAND.
WHERE WE KNOW HE WILL TALK ABOUT
SYRIA.
THE PRESIDENT IS PLAYING DEFENSE
ON BOTH ISSUES WHICH COULD
THREATEN EFFORTS TO GAIN SUPPORT
FROM G-8 LEADERS.
POLITICS EDITOR FOR THE PBS NEWS
HOUR, HEATHER HURLBETTER, JIM
MICHAELS, THANKS TO YOU ALL FOR
SPENDING YOUR TIME WITH US THIS
AFTERNOON.
CHRISTINA, I WANT TO START WITH
YOU BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT STRUCK ME THIS MORNING IS
THAT IT SEEMED LIKE THE WHITE
HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF WAS TRYING
TO SORT OF LAY THE GROUND WORK
FOR THE PRESIDENT IN ADVANCE OF
WHAT WE KNOW IS PROBABLY GOING
TO BE TOUGH DISCUSSIONS THAT HE
WILL HAVE WITH OTHER LEADERS
THAT HAVE LOFTS QUESTIONS ABOUT
THE NSA.
IT SEEMS LIKE McDONA WAS OUT
THERE.
WE HEARD HIM SAY A NUMBER OF
TIMES THAT PRESIDENT WILL BE
ADDRESSING THIS ISSUE.
AND THAT CONGRESS WAS BRIEFED
THEY WERE FULLY BRIEFED BUT IT
FELT A LITTLE DEFENSIVE TO ME.
WHAT WAS YOUR TAKE?
>> THE WHITE HOUSE IS ON THE
DEFENSIVE RIGHT NOW ABOUT THIS.
BUT WHAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO
POINT OUT AND WHAT THE PRESIDENT
HAS BEEN POINTING OUT
CONTINUOUSLY IS THAT CONGRESS
DID APPROVE THIS PROGRAM AND SO
IT IS ABOUT HOW BROAD IT IS AND
HOW MUCH THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE
PAYING ATTENTION AND HOW MUCH
THEY ARE BOTHERED WHEN IT IS
SITES LIKE FACEBOOK OR GOING EL
AND FEELING LIKE THEIR OWN
PRIVACY IS BEING VIOLATED.
THAT'S WHEN YOU SEE MORE
SPECIFICS COME OUT FROM THE
GOVERNMENT TRYING TO GET THESE
STORIES IN THE NEWSPAPERS RIGHT
NOW.
AND FROM THE WHITE HOUSE
ACTUALLY AGREES YOU'VELY SAYING
LOOK WE WERE ABLE TO STOP
TERRORIST ATTACKS BECAUSE OF
SOME OF THE INFORMATION.
>> RIGHT.
JIM IT WAS SORT OF INTERESTING
THAT THERE IS A REVERSAL OF
FORTUNE WITH ODD BED FELLOWS
TODAY AND CHENEY IS DEFENDING
THE PROGRAM AND WE HAD OTHER
REPUBLICANS AS DEMOCRATS WHO
HAVE BEEN CONTINUING TO BE
SKEPTICAL IF YOU WILL.
WHAT KIND OF POSITION DOES THAT
PUT THE PRESIDENT IN?
AGAIN, HEADING TO EUROPE.
A LOT OF LEADERS HAVE A LOT OF
QUESTIONS.
WE STILL HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS
FOR THE PRESIDENT.
>> SURE.
I THINK THAT, AND I MEAN, IT IS
INTERESTING, BECAUSE EVEN THE
HEAD OF THE NSA HAS SAID NOW, HE
WANTS TO DECLASSIFY AS MUCH AS
HE POSSIBLY CAN AND I THINK WHAT
THE ADMINISTRATION IS DOING IN
COMING DAYS AND WEEKS IS TRYING
TO CONVINCE THE AMERICAN PUBLIC
THAT THESE PROGRAMS HAVE
ACTUALLY DISRUPTED PLANS
TERRORIST ATTACKS.
I THINK THAT WILL BE HIS
STRATEGY MOVING FORWARD AND THE
MOST EFFECTIVE STRATEGY.
>> DON'T LEADERSHIPS HAVE
QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT
CITIZENS WITHIN THEIR BORDERS
WERE TARGETED?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
IT IS NOT ONLY THAT, BUT THE
INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES COORDINATE
WITH EACH OTHER AND SHARE
INFORMATION WITH EACH OTHER.
THIS GOES TO A CRITICAL ELEMENT
OF TRUST.
AND IF ANY OF THESE COUNTRIES
WORRY ABOUT THIS INFORMATION
LEAKING OUT AND WHETHER THE U.S.
IS A RELIABLE PART, AND THAT'S
GOING TO BE A PROBLEM, AND OF
COURSE DOMESTICALLY WITHIN THEIR
COUNTRIES, THERE WILL BE
CONCERNS OVER SPYING.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
HEATHER I WILL SHIFT GEARS JUST
A LITTLE BIT.
WE HAD SORT OF AN INTERESTING
BACK AND FORTH WITH THE FORMER
VICE PRESIDENT.
TODAY TALKING ABOUT THE WAR ON
TERROR AND WHETHER WE ARE STILL
IN A WAR ON TERROR OR IS THE WAR
ON TERROR OVER.
LET'S TAKE A LISTEN.
>> LETHAL, YET LESS CAPABLE AL
QAEDA AFFILIATES.
BUSINESSES ABROAD.
HOMEGROWN EXTREMISTS.
THIS IS THE FUTURE OF TERRORISM.
AS WE SHAPE OUR RESPONSE.
WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT THE
SCALE OF THIS THREAT CLOSELY
RESEMBLES THE TYPES OF ATTACKS
WE FACED BEFORE 9/11.
>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, HE'S
WRONG.
IF YOU LOOK AT SAFE HARBOR
SANCTUARY WITH PLAN AND TRAIN
AND BOTCHED ACROSS THE UNITED
STATES, IT RUNS ACROSS NORTH
AFRICA.
FOR EXAMPLE, THE BROTHER OF
MUSLIM HOOD HAS COME TO POWER.
SO THE THREAT IS BIGGER THAN
EVER.
>> WHAT STRUCK ME ABOUT THAT
RESPONSE FROM THE VICE PRESIDENT
AND WHEN YOU LISTEN TO WHAT THE
PRESIDENT IS TALKING ABOUT, I
FELT LIKE THE PRESIDENT IS
TALKING ABOUT, THIS IS THE NEW
NORMAL.
THIS IS THE REALITY AND WE HAVE
TO BE PREPARED TO DEAL WITH THIS
ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS.
THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THE NSA
PROGRAMS, FOR EXAMPLE.
IN THE BUSH YEARS, THE THINGS
THAT THEY WERE DOING ON IN
SECRET DEPENDED ON THE IDEA WE
HAVE THIS GLOBAL WAR ON TERROR
WITH THIS UNSEEN FOES, IF YOU
WILL.
WHERE I THINK NOW WE ARE IN A
DIFFERENT PLACE.
>> THE FIRST THING ABOUT WHAT
CHENEY SAID TODAY IS THAT CHENEY
SEEMS TO DEFINE ANY MUSLIM
ENTITY THAT HE DOESN'T LIKE AS A
TERRORIST GROUP.
AND YOU CAN HAVE ALL KIND OF
CONCERNS ABOUT MUSLIM
BROTHERHOOD GOVERNMENTS WITHOUT
SAYING THEY ARE TERRORIST.
WHICH IS AN ALLEGATION THERE IS
ABSOLUTELY NO SUPPORT FOR.
PARTICULARLY IN EGYPT OR TUNISIA
OR SAYING THAT ANY OF THE SPACES
IN NORTH AFRICA, THERE ARE
CONCERNS ABOUT TERRORISM.
SO THE FIRST THING TO RECOGNIZE
IS WHEN *** CHENEY SAYS
TERRORIST, HE MEANS MUSLIM
ENTITY WE DON'T LIKE.
SECOND POINT AND KAREN, AS YOU
SAY, MUCH OF THE WAY AT BUSH
ADMINISTRATION STRUCTURED THE
U.S. RESPONSE TO TERRORISM WAS
BUILT ON THE IDEA THAT WE WERE
AT WAR AND THAT WE COULD BEHAVE,
AND USE OUR ARMED FORCES AND
INTELLIGENCE AND THE BUSH
ADMINISTRATION WAS DOING THINGS
THAT IS HAS NOW COME OUT THAT
OBAMA ADMINISTRATION IS DOING
WITHOUT COURT SUPPORT.
YOU CAN FEEL RIGHT OR WRONG
ABOUT IT BUT AT LEAST AT SOME
POINT WHEN HALF OF THE SENIOR
JUSTICE OFFICIALS THREATENED TO
RESIGNED, THEY DID GET A
WARRANT.
IT IS VERY MUCH THIS MIND-SET
THAT ALL MUSLIM ENTITIES WE DENT
LIKE OR ENTITY -- OR ENEMIES CAN
USEFULLY BE DEFINED AS
TERRORISTS.
AND OBAMA VERY MUCH TO HIS
CREDIT, WHATEVER YOU THINK OF
THE TACTICS HE USED TRIED IT
MOVE US INTO A DIFFERENT FRAME
OF THINKING ABOUT HOW WE RELATE
TO THE MUSLIM WORLD.
>> EXACTLY.
THE OTHER SORT OF AGAIN BIG
ISSUE TODAY, SYRIA, IT SEEMED
LIKE DURING THE SHOWS, EVERYBODY
WAS KIND OF PILING ON, RIGHT?
FIRST IT WAS SOME AMOUNT OF
SATISFACTION WHEN THE PRESIDENT
MADE THE ANNOUNCEMENT ON
THURSDAY.
NOW TODAY FOR THE MOST PART, IT
WAS, IT IS TOO LITTLE TOO LATE.
WE NEED A NO-FLY ZONE DESPITE
THE FACT THAT PUTIN MADE IT
CLEAR YESTERDAY THAT RUSSIA DOES
NOT ACCEPT THE IDEA OF A NO-FLY
ZONE.
LET'S TAKE A LISTEN THEN WE WILL
TALK ABOUT IT ON THE OTHER SIDE.
>> THE QUESTION IS WHETHER OR
NOT THEY ARE A DAY LATE AND A
DOLLAR SHORT.
>> TIME IS NOT ON OUR SIDE.
>> IN A SENSE THAT WOULD BE BAD
FOR US?
THZ WILL TURN OUT TO BE ONE OF
THOSE CASES WHERE THE UNITED
STATES WILL SET ITSELF UP FOR
DEFEATED.
>> THEY REALLY DO HAVE TO LOOK
AT A NO-FLY ZONE.
>> NO BOOTS ON THE GROUND IS
SORT OF EVERYONE'S POSITION,
INCLUDING MINE.
>> IT SEEMS TO ME THEY IS A
GREAT MEDIA STRATEGY.
THEY DON'T HAVE A GREAT SYRIAN
STRATEGY.
>> THE FACT IT HAS TAKEN THIS
WHITE HOUSE AND THIS PRESIDENT
SO LONG TO GET A CLEAR AND
CONCISE POLICY ON SYRIA HAS LEFT
US WITH THE WORST POSSIBLE
SCENARIO RIGHT NOW.
>> ALL RIGHT.
I WILL PULL THIS A PART A LITTLE
BIT.
JIM, YOU SPENT TIME IN IRAQ.
I DO THINK THAT WHEN A LOT OF US
HEAR WHAT IS GOING ON, IT JUST
DOES NOT SOUND REALISTIC, THIS
IDEA WE WON'T END UP WITH BOOT
ON THE GROUND.
MAY START WITH WEAPONS.
THEN NO-FLY ZONE.
HOW DO WE AFLY A QUAGMIRE HERE?
>> I THINK ONE THING TO KEEP IN
MIND IS IT HAS TAKEN THE
ADMINISTRATION MORE THAN TWO
YEARS JUST TO GET TO THIS POINT
HERE.
AND HERE IS WHAT HAPPENED, I
THINK.
IMPORTANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT
REBELS STARTED LOSING MOMENTUM.
THEY LOST CAME KEY CITIES.
AND THE CONCERN WAS THAT THE
MOMENTUM WOULD GO IN ASSAD'S
FAVOR.
THE ADMINISTRATION FELT THEY
NEEDED TO DO SOMETHING.
>> RIGHT.
>> THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT ARMS.
BUT HERE IS THE PROBLEM MOVING
FORWARD.
IT IS NOT ENTIRELY CLEAR THAT
THE REBELS DON'T HAVE PLENTY OF
SMALL ARMS AND AMMUNITIONS.
DIFFERENT LEVELS OF AMMUNITION
AND WEAPONS.
BUT THE REAL KEY NOW IS HOW DO
YOU TURN THE TIDE ON THE GROUND
WITHOUT GETTING INTO DEEPER AND
DEEPER INVOLVEMENT.
>> RIGHT.
>> THIS IS WHAT THEY ARE TRYING
TO DO.
RATCHET IT UP LITTLE BY LITTLE.
THEY NEED TO ADDRESS WHAT THE
REBELS NEED.
WHAT KIND OF KEY WEAPONS THEY
NEED.
MORE IMPORTANTLY, THEY NEED TO
GET THE REBELS, IF THEY WANT TO
CHANGE THE SITUATION ON THE
GROUND, COORDINATED, MOVING IN
THE SAME DIRECTION.
AND TRAINED SO THAT THEY CAN
TURN THE TIDE.
>> AND ACTUALLY, CHRISTINA,
QUICKLY, TO THAT POINT, IT SEEMS
LIKE, AT LEFT NOW WITH WHAT THE
WHITE HOUSE IS SAYING, IS THEY
HAVE BEEN USING THIS TIME TO TRY
TO FIGURE OUT WHO IS THE
MODERATE OPPOSITION, GET INTEL
ON WHO WE SHOULD BE GIVING ARMS
TO AND ASSESS THE NEEDS JIM IS
TALKING ABOUT.
THAT SEEMS TO BE THEIR STRATEGY
OVER THE LAST WEEKS.
>> YES, IT IS.
AND THEY ARE STAYING OVER AND
OVER AGAIN AND CONSULTING WITH
CONGRESS ON THE BEST WAY
FORWARD.
WE'RE NOT SURE THAT ARMING THE
REBELS IS THE RIGHT WAY FORWARD.
WHAT IS INTERESTING IN THE
MONTAGE YOU SHOWED, WITH
REPUBLICAN PEOPLE, THERE IS A
LOT OF CRITICIZE EM.
THESE PEOPLE WILL CRITICISM THE
PRESIDENT NO MATTER WHAT.
AND A LOT WERE CRITICS
CRITICIZING HIM, ON THE BENGHAZI
ATTACK.
BUT DEMOCRATS ARE WEARY AS WELL.
THERE IS NO SORT OF BOOTS ON THE
GROUND.
ONE THING YOU SEE GOING AROUND
QUITE QUITE A BIT IS 1993
ARTICLE, SHOWING THE UNITED
STATES HELPING OSAMA BIN LADEN.
WE WOULD LIKE IT ARM HIM.
HE IS LIKE THE REBEL INSURGENCY
HERE.
THE IDEA THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES
DOWN THE LINE, THE WHITE HOUSE
VERY AWARE OF AND THAT'S WHY
THEY ARE SAYING THEY ARE GETTING
AS MUCH INFORMATION AS THEY CAN
BEFORE THEY MAKE DECISIONS?
>> EXACTLY AND THOUGH KNOW
AMERICANS ARE LISTENING TO THAT.
>>> NEXT, THE IRS SCANDAL THAT