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I'm joined by Michael Brooks is the host the intersection on Oslo on media also
the producer of majority report with Sam cedar
Michael we've talked individually about a lot of these stories that are kinda
but
under the umbrella of the Global War on Terrorism but less traditionally
as such and one of those is the recent mall attack
in Kenya we've talked about a number of other stories and
I think a good starting point would be is this actually a change
in the face have terrorism or is it only a change
in the stories that have been reported that are sometimes called
terrorism on yeah I
that's that's interesting I I like the way he phrased that
put that question %uh there's a couple different aspects to this I think that
there's a kind of broad
overarching al Qaeda
ideology if you will or something along those lines and not we can actually
genuinely talk about
and at Global way ideologically we can also talk about it
in a somewhat local way in the sensor these organizations operate
in some respects like franchise since they're more decentralized they share
some overlapping ideology in context
and they obviously act out these really horrific improve always
on the other hand a you know these groups are very much rooted in local
contacts there is a variety of different factors contributing
art shoe their growth into their activities where they're specifically
operating
so in many respects a in terms of addressing these questions
it's not one global issue but ideologically
and said that having a kinda franchise model obviously there are overlaps
if that distinction make sense I can understand why from the point of view
for those who stand to benefit from the broader context of the global War on
Terror
why there are instances where you may want to suggest that particular
incidence
are lone wolves or particular incidents our part a broader conspiracy or plan
regardless of whether it happens to be true right in any particular case
from the point of view of thinking about the causes love
and possible solutions to the broader issue of terror
were wherever it is you draw the lines is it useful to think about this
systemically or is it more useful to look individually
as for example Kenya as a totally separate incident from whatever other
incident you want to look at but I know I
a look I think that there is a systemic component to this
for sure I mean there there's organizations like elsa Bob
which carried out this attack in Kenya their is connections to al Qaeda
their is some height up global organization here
but again what you've seen is the Obama
strategy other kinda unconventional secretive
a warfare that its pursuit against kinda
core al Qaeda which is primarily in Pakistan primarily
somewhat in Afghanistan actually primarily in Pakistan
has kinda on really genuinely
disrupted that core so you have less
other kind centralized have planning node
like you might add a decade ago but now you do have
this is again a franchise model where you have a lot of different groups
who are loosely connected operating in a similar
ideological framework so it is systemic but the responses to it
I should be systemic as well that means taking into account local
doctor as I you know that surveying
things that she needs support for these groups and also really being realistic
you know how should bob
other group that carried out the attack in 10 in Kenya
is not particularly powerful Somalia %uh there's a lot of resistance to it
and there's a lot of I did indigenous and homegrown resistance to these groups
as well
so let's touch on that a little bit because I I don't know if I'm
overstating the case by saying that
the particular perpetrators in the Kenya attack are part of a group that has been
decimated maybe that's a little bit of an overstatement but in any case
its it's a group that by and large considered significantly weekend
I read one interesting peace and talk to a couple of people and there's this idea
that
you may actually face the greatest risk
when groups are in this week in state because they become increasingly
desperate do you agree with that
and is that bad a completely unpredictable element to this be global
war against terror
yeah I mean I think again I i think that that you know
s particularly in the case specifically in a case that Al Sabah
there's no question that heart their
being really significantly weaken and somalia
as a result are very significant let's be clear advantage in this
somalian resistance chew them are not just outside interference from
neighboring
countries that that was sorta what
pushed after being a very domestically focused on far-right group
shoe or more kinda globally lined up high to offshoot
so that does play out but I do think at the end of the day
fundamentally dealing with these problems we go back to
you know what bush use carry a a
saying you know Carrie wants a treat this like a
a police an intelligence matter exclusively well maybe not explicitly
but actually in fact yes
dealing with terrorism is primarily and intelligence and policing matter
that's how you deal with asymmetrical rats that's how you deal with unexpected
scenarios you're talking about
and that I can get in these localities
and really figure out what's going on the last thing I wanna touch on
and in the couple minutes that we have it's probably a much broader discussion
but
when we talk about the global War on Terror and its connections to the
military-industrial complex and the amount of
industries that are literally bed by
what starts as just been having people be afraid
and then how ok the war against terrorists
is wage whether it be be a troops on the ground in situations like Iraq and
Afghanistan
drone warfare so on and so forth can you simultaneously
except that their are terroristic threats and fight them
in a way that doesnt he'd the military-industrial complex or do we
just have to say
there's going to be some element of that if you want to fight terror
well I mean is gonna be some element a military and defense and intelligence I
think that that's something we should totally diss aggregate
Robert I you know the military-industrial complex
or just the massive disproportionate power
the defense industry a discredited ideologies on washington
I mean I think one difference even in framing as I I wouldn't use the Global
War on Terrorism because I think that that's the comment
a rubric unfortunately for a lot of the type to kinda sloppy in problematic
thinking that you're highlighting I you know when you talk about the
military-industrial complex we need to think in these is very discreet
yes interconnected but discreet up problems that have very specific
responses that really
very this isn't the cold war this is certainly is not the war against fascism
or Nazi Germany or anything
so putting and those brains and those rubrics takes us away from
yes terrorism is a real security threat needs to be dealt with along with
global infectious diseases climate change loose nukes you know any number
of other kind asymmetrical challenges
when we talk about it like that it puts the wrong frame around it
and not is what facilitates the kinda lazy bellicose
dangers policy-making we saw the Bush years on unfortunately in different ways
over the past couple years during the Obama administration as well
check out Michael brooks' new podcast intersection for us line media also
producer
love the majority report with Sam cedar Michael great to talk to you but Michael
studio now is very close to David Pakman show studio after the move we we r we
should be doing well as an 0
thank you yeah York my friend if only the studio was bigger than what
it's just me and the TV we could do this in person in a
I'm asking you know verbal was skinny dudes I
figure it out alright we'll take a break plenty more after this