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17:22:52:24 �� 17:30:09:09 >>> Coming up next on "Arizona
17:30:11:24 Horizon," a visit with U.S. 17:30:13:24 Senator Jeff Flake.
17:30:14:21 We'll discuss the top issues of 17:30:16:03 the day, including inaction on
17:30:19:00 immigration reform, and yet 17:30:20:15 another attempt to stop an
17:30:22:21 Indian casino in the West 17:30:23:24 Valley.
17:30:24:09 That's next on "Arizona 17:30:25:12 Horizon."
17:30:26:15 >>> "Arizona Horizon" is made 17:30:27:12 possible by contributions from
17:30:28:27 the Friends of Eight, members of
17:30:30:24 your Arizona PBS station. 17:30:32:27 Thank you.
17:30:34:12 >>> Good evening, and welcome to
17:30:35:03 "Arizona Horizon," I'm Ted 17:30:36:27 Simons.
17:30:37:18 The surge of unaccompanied 17:30:39:27 children from Central America
17:30:41:03 has refocused the national 17:30:43:06 spotlight on illegal
17:30:44:15 immigration, and yet 17:30:45:21 comprehensive immigration reform
17:30:47:15 remains elusive with little 17:30:50:06 apparent chance of significant
17:30:52:03 changes happening anytime soon. 17:30:54:06 Here to talk about that and
17:30:55:12 other federal issues impacting 17:30:58:06 Arizona is the U.S. senator from
17:31:00:06 Arizona, Jeff Flake. 17:31:02:00 >> Thanks for having me on.
17:31:04:00 >> Thank you. 17:31:04:09 Your thoughts on the passing of
17:31:06:18 state Senator Chester Crandall. 17:31:09:03 It's really a blow to the state,
17:31:11:12 a blow to Northern Arizona. 17:31:13:09 There are too few members who
17:31:15:09 really represent rural Arizona 17:31:17:09 these days and he did.
17:31:19:03 So it's going to be felt, it 17:31:20:18 really is.
17:31:21:15 >> Okay. 17:31:21:27 Let's get now to happenings back
17:31:23:27 there in Washington. 17:31:25:00 I've heard the critics noting
17:31:26:27 the irony of what they described 17:31:29:06 as the least productive Congress
17:31:31:00 in history taking a vacation. 17:31:33:03 >> What is going on there?
17:31:34:24 >> Tremendously frustrating to 17:31:35:27 me, particularly in the Senate,
17:31:38:03 which is the most deliberative 17:31:40:12 body in the world, unlimited
17:31:42:00 debate and amendments. 17:31:43:06 And they can't even bring
17:31:45:15 anything to the floor. 17:31:47:03 It's been a very frustrating
17:31:48:12 experience. 17:31:48:27 >> The President wanting a few
17:31:50:06 billion dollars' emergency 17:31:51:24 funding for the border, where
do 17:31:53:21 you stand on that?
17:31:55:00 And where do you think the 17:31:56:21 American public stands on that?
17:31:58:18 >> I think it is a genuine 17:32:01:00 emergency and a genuine crisis.
17:32:03:06 >> I think the President and the 17:32:04:18 administration did need
17:32:05:27 additional moneys. 17:32:07:09 I don't think they needed $3.7
17:32:09:27 billion dollars that was asked 17:32:11:09 for.
17:32:12:00 Having said that we did need 17:32:14:12 additional money, it was an
17:32:16:09 emergency and I was disappointed 17:32:18:27 that we couldn't put together
a 17:32:20:15 package before the break.
17:32:21:15 We'll need to do so when we get 17:32:23:18 back there in September.
17:32:24:27 >> As far as the package is 17:32:26:15 concerned, should that include
17:32:27:18 amendments or just somehow 17:32:28:27 changes to the human trafficking
17:32:32:09 law? 17:32:32:24 >> The President asked for that
17:32:34:09 initially, he backed up 17:32:36:06 somewhat.
17:32:36:15 The supplemental he put to 17:32:38:12 Congress didn't include any of
17:32:39:12 those changes. 17:32:41:00 He needs them, he wants them,
17:32:42:21 and we should give them to him. 17:32:44:18 >> Do you think somewhere lost
17:32:46:03 in the fog lawmakers are -- 17:32:48:12 these are refugees, folks
17:32:49:27 looking for safe haven. 17:32:52:03 Or has that been a differing
17:32:54:06 definition? 17:32:55:09 >> I think there are genuine
17:32:57:12 cases of persecution. 17:32:58:27 People who should be granted
17:33:00:12 asylum. 17:33:01:27 Senator McCain and I put forward
17:33:04:00 legislation saying that ought to
17:33:05:21 happen in their home country. 17:33:07:21 We ought to allow the embassies
17:33:09:24 and people in those countries to
17:33:13:00 accept or judge those claims, 17:33:14:24 those genuine cases of asylum.
17:33:17:18 They need not make that 17:33:19:24 dangerous trip north.
17:33:21:09 For those who come here, some 17:33:23:00 will have a genuine claim and
17:33:25:03 some won't. 17:33:25:24 You need a process that works
17:33:28:06 quickly where you don't have to 17:33:30:15 place these kids with sponsors
17:33:33:09 with court dates two years from 17:33:35:12 now.
17:33:35:24 Then you're simply aiding the 17:33:38:09 smugglers because they are able
17:33:40:03 to go back and say, look, a 17:33:43:09 child went across the border,
17:33:45:21 it's been placed with a family 17:33:48:06 member, all is good.
17:33:50:09 Then the situation just 17:33:51:15 perpetuates.
17:33:52:24 >> The country does have a moral 17:33:55:03 obligation to at least fund the
17:33:57:09 current law and make changes 17:33:58:21 when possible.
17:33:59:21 >> Oh, yes. 17:34:00:15 >> But the current law we can
17:34:01:21 also expedite this process. 17:34:04:00 We need to fund -- have more
17:34:07:09 judges for example to hear these 17:34:09:03 cases more quickly.
17:34:10:18 That will cost more because the 17:34:12:00 longer you hold these kids
17:34:13:15 indention, the more it costs. 17:34:16:00 It's cheaper to actually place
17:34:18:18 them with a sponsor because then 17:34:20:06 there's no financial
17:34:21:21 responsibility for the federal 17:34:23:15 government.
17:34:23:27 But having done that, you're 17:34:25:24 just inviting more to come.
17:34:28:12 So it's a bit of a paradox. 17:34:31:03 You will have to spend some
17:34:33:06 money to detain, but you will 17:34:35:06 solve the crisis for the long
17:34:37:00 term. 17:34:37:27 >> As far as the deferred action
17:34:39:21 for childhood arrivals program, 17:34:42:00 I know the critics of that
17:34:45:00 program, we can get into a 17:34:46:09 little bit of that, how it was
17:34:48:27 implemented. 17:34:49:15 But should it be defunded?
17:34:52:03 There's talk that that is the 17:34:53:15 only way Congress can maybe set
17:34:56:06 their will. 17:34:57:03 Do you agree with that?
17:34:59:00 >> No, I didn't agree with the 17:35:00:15 President moving ahead.
17:35:01:12 To put this in place and have 17:35:03:12 those kids in a situation where
17:35:05:09 they are yanked back and forth, 17:35:07:21 they are here legally, they are
17:35:09:03 able to attend schools or find 17:35:10:21 work and then they are not,
17:35:12:12 going back and forth, that's not 17:35:14:15 a good situation.
17:35:16:03 I believe the President should 17:35:17:06 have worked with the Congress
17:35:18:12 and found a permanent solution. 17:35:20:09 But he didn't.
17:35:21:24 It's been confusing to others 17:35:24:21 and the smugglers and cartels
17:35:26:12 have preyed on that confusion 17:35:29:00 and have basically told parents
17:35:31:12 in Guatemala, El Salvador and 17:35:34:06 Honduras, hey, give your child
17:35:37:00 to us, we'll get them across and 17:35:38:24 they will be able to stay.
17:35:40:00 It's not a good or humane 17:35:42:12 situation for anyone.
17:35:43:00 >> You said you hoped the 17:35:45:00 President would work with
17:35:46:03 Congress. 17:35:46:18 There are some who see the
17:35:48:06 President trying to work with 17:35:49:18 Congress in his own way, and
17:35:51:18 Congress -- at least Republicans 17:35:53:12 in Congress, just saying no to
17:35:55:15 everything. 17:35:55:27 Your response.
17:35:56:18 >> I think there are some who 17:35:57:27 will just say no to everything.
17:36:00:12 But there are a good number of 17:36:01:21 Republicans who want to find a
17:36:03:15 solution to this. 17:36:04:12 We passed bill out of the
17:36:06:03 Senate. 17:36:06:24 There are a number of people in
17:36:07:27 the House, Republicans and 17:36:09:12 Democrats, trying to find a
17:36:10:27 solution. 17:36:11:09 The problem with the President
17:36:14:06 taking executive action, his 17:36:16:00 authority only goes so far.
17:36:17:21 He can't create a path to 17:36:20:00 citizenship or do any of that,
17:36:21:15 he doesn't pretend that he can. 17:36:23:24 As long as you have a situation
17:36:25:15 where the President can only 17:36:26:21 take temporary steps, it's not
a 17:36:28:24 good one.
17:36:29:27 He ought to be patient and work 17:36:31:18 with Congress.
17:36:32:15 When the President takes 17:36:34:09 unilateral action like this it
17:36:37:00 breeds distrust in the Congress. 17:36:39:03 People in the House of
17:36:40:00 Representatives say, see, it 17:36:41:09 doesn't matter what we do, the
17:36:43:00 President will ignore it anyway. 17:36:44:24 >> There are some in the House
17:36:46:24 who think the Dreamers, born in 17:36:49:09 Mexico mostly but raised for
17:36:50:24 their entire lives here, should 17:36:53:00 immediately be deported.
17:36:54:15 That was again debated here. 17:36:56:27 I know it's the House and not
17:36:58:15 the Senate. 17:36:59:06 But your thoughts on immediately
17:37:01:09 deporting dreamers. 17:37:02:06 >> I just don't think it's
17:37:03:27 rational or feasible or 17:37:06:18 advisable.
17:37:07:12 I've long felt that we ought to 17:37:10:24 have been supportive of the
17:37:12:09 Dream Act, it was included in 17:37:14:18 legislation I sponsored in the
17:37:16:21 House. 17:37:17:00 It was included in legislation
17:37:18:09 we did in the Senate. 17:37:19:27 I just don't agree with that
17:37:21:15 sentiment. 17:37:22:06 >> Do you think what's happening
17:37:23:15 now with the Central American 17:37:25:03 refugees and DACA, and
17:37:28:15 immigration, should all of those 17:37:30:09 things be linked.
17:37:32:06 >> You know, I think that this 17:37:34:18 package that the President asked
17:37:36:03 for, we ought to deal with this 17:37:38:06 immediate crisis and not try
17:37:40:00 link everything else to it. 17:37:42:06 Because there is an immediate
17:37:44:12 crisis there's no way you can do
17:37:45:27 the whole thing in a month or in
17:37:47:15 a couple of weeks like we need 17:37:49:15 to.
17:37:49:24 But I hope we return to the 17:37:51:24 broader debate on immigration.
17:37:54:06 I hope that if Republicans are 17:37:56:18 fortunate to take the Senate
17:37:59:27 this fall, then we come back in 17:38:01:24 January and get to work on a
17:38:03:09 package. 17:38:03:21 It'll probably look different
17:38:05:09 than the Senate Bill, probably 17:38:06:15 be piecemeal like the House
17:38:09:09 wanted to do, that's fine. 17:38:11:21 Lest sequence it in a way that
17:38:13:24 we can pass this broad-based 17:38:15:24 reform of.
17:38:16:03 >> You mentioned a bill you are 17:38:17:24 associate ved closely with.
17:38:19:21 What the heck happened with 17:38:21:09 that?
17:38:21:18 What's going on with that? 17:38:23:09 >> We passed it last year, it's
17:38:26:00 been over a year now. 17:38:27:15 We had hoped the House would
17:38:29:24 take it up. 17:38:30:21 None of us expected the House
to 17:38:33:06 accept it as it was.
17:38:35:06 There were very good border 17:38:37:24 provisions in that bill.
17:38:39:00 I hoped the House would improve 17:38:41:09 on the guest worker plans to
17:38:43:15 expand, make them bigger. 17:38:46:00 The house for one reason or
17:38:47:27 another hasn't seen fit to take 17:38:50:09 it up.
17:38:50:27 It's unfortunate. 17:38:51:21 >> Looking from a distance, the
17:38:54:15 critics are saying the votes are 17:38:56:21 there, the speaking simply won't
17:38:58:24 take the vote. 17:39:00:00 >> I think the votes are there.
17:39:01:06 They were very close before the 17:39:02:27 Eric Cantor loss.
17:39:04:18 And that spooked a lot of 17:39:06:27 Republicans in tight primary
17:39:09:09 races. 17:39:10:00 And unfortunately I think that
17:39:12:15 stalled it. 17:39:13:06 >> And you mentioned if the
17:39:15:03 Senate control goes back to the 17:39:17:03 Republicans, you'd like to see
17:39:19:24 this readdressed. 17:39:21:24 If it goes back to Republicans
17:39:23:18 will it be readdressed? 17:39:25:27 >> That would suggest you may
17:39:27:18 not have that majority come to 17:39:30:06 fruition again.
17:39:30:24 >> I think we will. 17:39:31:24 We had 68 votes in the Senate
17:39:34:18 for the so-called Gang of Eight 17:39:36:15 bill.
17:39:36:27 It won't be the same, it will be
17:39:41:00 more emphasis one place or 17:39:43:03 another.
17:39:43:15 That's fine, I do believe the 17:39:45:09 votes are there.
17:39:45:27 I think federal they will be 17:39:47:27 there in the House, as well.
17:39:49:21 As a Republican, obviously first 17:39:51:03 and foremost there are
17:39:52:27 substantive policy reasons to 17:39:54:18 deal with this issue.
17:39:56:00 If you want to talk politics, I
17:39:58:03 think it's going to be difficult 17:39:59:09 for Republicans to win
17:40:02:09 nationally if we don't deal with 17:40:04:06 this issue forthrightly.
17:40:06:12 >> You see that -- we read about 17:40:09:18 this all the time, this could
be 17:40:11:03 a major impact on the future of
17:40:12:15 the Republican Party. 17:40:13:27 You agree with that?
17:40:15:18 >> Yes, I do. 17:40:16:21 It's not just that the
17:40:17:27 Republicans need to appeal to a
17:40:19:27 growing demographic, Hispanics 17:40:23:15 in particular.
17:40:24:09 That's important but even more 17:40:26:06 so I think that people in
17:40:27:18 general, whatever race or creed, 17:40:30:15 people expect a governing party,
17:40:34:15 serious national party, to deal 17:40:37:00 rationally with issues and to
17:40:38:27 have solutions. 17:40:40:18 And I think we haven't exactly
17:40:43:00 had that in the past few years. 17:40:45:03 >> You mentioned as well that
17:40:46:27 perhaps going in stages would be
17:40:48:18 a better idea. 17:40:49:12 I know Senator Rubio thinks
17:40:52:21 progressing in stages is the 17:40:55:09 only way to get something done.
17:40:56:27 Do you agree with that now? 17:40:59:03 >> I believe the House is
17:41:00:24 certainly set on going that 17:41:02:06 direction, and that's fine, we
17:41:03:24 can do that. 17:41:04:15 You can sequence these steps in
17:41:06:12 a way that you can still wind up
17:41:08:15 with broad-based reform. 17:41:10:27 But do it sequentially.
17:41:12:21 >> Always a threat of 17:41:13:24 slow-footing it to where nothing
17:41:16:18 eventually happens. 17:41:18:24 >> But sure, it's
17:41:20:00 legislativetive, you have to do 17:41:21:15 it.
17:41:23:03 >> Representatives -- I keep 17:41:24:09 going back to the House because
17:41:25:24 the fireworks seem to be 17:41:27:15 happening from the house.
17:41:28:18 We've got other Congressmen now 17:41:31:00 starting to talk about the I
17:41:32:18 word, impeachment. 17:41:34:15 >> What do you make of that?
17:41:36:03 >> Very little. 17:41:36:24 There are very few actually
17:41:38:15 talking about it, certainly not 17:41:40:09 me.
17:41:40:27 I think the other side kind of 17:41:43:06 plays it up because it's to
17:41:45:00 their political advantage. 17:41:46:24 But no serious Republicans are
17:41:48:27 talking about it. 17:41:49:24 >> So again, if Representative
17:41:51:21 King says impeach the President, 17:41:56:00 if he goes in and offers the
17:41:58:15 deferment of deportations with 17:42:01:00 another executive order.
17:42:03:12 I know there's a lawsuit. 17:42:06:18 Do you think that's Republicans
17:42:08:12 making noise for an election? 17:42:11:12 >> I do, I do.
17:42:12:21 Our best option is to do well in
17:42:14:21 November and I think we will. 17:42:16:03 >> Do you think the last thing
17:42:17:09 on immigration, seems like it's 17:42:19:27 topic A for everyone.
17:42:21:03 When it comes to securing the 17:42:22:21 border and amnesty, do you think
17:42:25:03 those in the Republican Party 17:42:26:09 see those words defined very
17:42:28:21 differently? 17:42:29:18 How do you get coalition here,
17:42:32:00 if so? 17:42:33:18 >> I think Republicans believe
17:42:35:18 in the rule of law. 17:42:36:24 We want to get back to the rule
17:42:37:27 of law and you don't have it 17:42:39:21 when you have some 11 million
17:42:41:06 people living here in the 17:42:43:12 shadows or not complying with
17:42:45:09 the law. 17:42:45:27 We need to get back to it.
17:42:47:24 We also need a secure border. 17:42:50:24 I think we need to do all of
17:42:52:18 that obviously it's a tough and 17:42:56:15 complex situation.
17:42:59:03 But you know, sometimes the 17:43:00:12 amnesty word gets thrown around
17:43:03:12 where it shouldn't be thrown 17:43:05:06 around.
17:43:05:21 In the end, I think as 17:43:07:00 Republicans we want to return
to 17:43:08:15 the rule of law and actually
17:43:10:21 deal with the issues of the 17:43:12:06 economy and what we need moving
17:43:14:06 ahead. 17:43:14:18 And also, you know, the horrible
17:43:17:21 humanitarian situation we 17:43:19:18 currently have on the border,
17:43:20:24 those things need to be 17:43:22:03 addressed, as well.
17:43:23:06 >> Last question on this: Do 17:43:24:15 you think Republicans are
17:43:25:21 starting to move in that 17:43:27:03 direction?
17:43:27:27 >> I think we have been over the 17:43:29:15 past year.
17:43:30:12 We were very close in the House 17:43:32:18 to having the package we could
17:43:34:03 have dealt with in the Senate 17:43:36:15 and the sent a bill to the
17:43:39:03 President. 17:43:39:18 I think we're moving in the
17:43:40:27 right direction. 17:43:41:24 >> You're introducing a new bill
17:43:43:09 to stop new 62 casinos in the 17:43:45:18 West Valley area.
17:43:49:15 Why? 17:43:50:00 >> I was there in the Congress
17:43:54:12 when the Indian Gaming Act was 17:43:56:15 passed, and it just wasn't
17:43:58:24 contemplated at that time that 17:44:00:12 you would have the tribes
17:44:03:21 actually put a casino in a 17:44:08:15 noncontiguous party away from
17:44:10:12 the reservation in the middle of
17:44:12:12 a city. 17:44:13:00 That's going on in Glendale.
17:44:14:21 We've introduced legislation to 17:44:16:06 block that.
17:44:17:09 >> Despite court rulings and the 17:44:20:06 department of interior, I think
17:44:21:24 we kind of know what direction 17:44:23:09 they are going.
17:44:24:03 The superior court in Michigan 17:44:26:21 made a ruling that kind of shows
17:44:29:06 where they are looking. 17:44:30:18 Do you think this is what people
17:44:32:06 in the West Valley want? 17:44:34:09 >> It may be.
17:44:34:27 The City Council didn't want it 17:44:36:21 before, now the City Council as
17:44:38:00 a counsel does, I think the 17:44:41:03 mayor is still opposed.
17:44:42:21 Other communities in the East 17:44:44:21 Valley and elsewhere are
17:44:46:12 concerned about the precedent 17:44:47:24 this sets.
17:44:49:06 We felt it was important to 17:44:51:03 introduce this legislation.
17:44:52:09 >> Despite the fact that maybe 17:44:54:09 some folks in the West Valley
17:44:56:03 see jobs, building of different 17:44:58:21 industries and businesses maybe
17:45:00:03 around this, a good thing for 17:45:01:15 the economy out there, you say
17:45:03:06 not so fast. 17:45:04:15 >> Not so fast.
17:45:05:24 >> All right. 17:45:06:09 That's it, huh?
17:45:07:27 >> Like I say, there are other 17:45:09:15 communities concerned about this
17:45:10:27 and we think that, well, to 17:45:12:27 follow the law here, and there
17:45:14:18 are questions still some courts 17:45:17:06 have to consider this.
17:45:18:09 We'll see where it goes. 17:45:20:03 >> Last question on this.
17:45:22:06 >> Where does the Indian gaming 17:45:24:09 compact go if this goes through?
17:45:27:06 >> That's 92 questions, all tied 17:45:30:12 together.
17:45:30:21 I can tell you when these laws 17:45:32:15 were passed I don't believe that
17:45:34:09 this was contemplated, this kind 17:45:36:06 of action where a tribe will
17:45:38:21 actually purchase land far away 17:45:42:18 from their own land and put a
17:45:45:24 casino there. 17:45:46:15 It just seems to be not
17:45:49:06 consistent with the law. 17:45:50:27 >> The V.A. reform bill, tell
us 17:45:53:27 what went into this.
17:45:56:03 What does it do, how important 17:45:57:12 is it especially for veterans
17:45:59:00 here in Arizona. 17:46:01:15 >> Extremely important.
17:46:02:09 This is one area where Congress 17:46:04:09 came together and had actually
17:46:06:06 moved legislation pretty 17:46:07:21 quickly.
17:46:08:15 It was important that veterans 17:46:10:24 be given a choice.
17:46:12:15 For those that have waited for 17:46:14:15 care or will wait for care and
17:46:16:27 aren't given a satisfactory 17:46:20:09 response, for them to be able
to 17:46:23:00 choose an option outside of the
17:46:25:06 V.A., that's what this 17:46:26:21 legislation does.
17:46:28:03 Also those who live a long way 17:46:30:00 from a clinic or hospital to be
17:46:32:00 able to access care close to 17:46:33:24 them.
17:46:34:06 That's important, it's a big 17:46:36:15 deal for a lot of veterans.
17:46:38:18 That's provided for in this 17:46:40:09 legislation and funded.
17:46:42:06 >> Indeed, 40 miles I think away 17:46:44:06 from the nearest have a facility
17:46:47:21 allows for that choice. 17:46:49:06 No the a heck of a lot of debate
17:46:52:21 on that? 17:46:54:00 >> There is.
17:46:54:15 There are a lot of people who 17:46:56:00 swallowed hard to allow this to
17:46:57:27 happen. 17:46:58:15 We thought it was important.
17:46:59:21 I think we owe it to the 17:47:01:12 veterans to make sure they get
17:47:02:21 the care they deserve. 17:47:04:03 >> Among those posed, senator
17:47:06:27 Sessions and Coburn concerned 17:47:09:03 about the costs.
17:47:10:03 We're talking $16.3 billion. 17:47:13:27 >> That is a concern.
17:47:14:27 The $10 billion is associated 17:47:18:00 with the choice some will be
17:47:19:21 able to make. 17:47:20:15 But when you think about that,
17:47:23:00 is veterans care that bad, that 17:47:26:12 that many veterans will flee the
17:47:28:12 V.A.? 17:47:29:06 If that's the case then we have
17:47:30:21 a bigger problem than we've 17:47:33:12 admitted.
17:47:34:27 I frankly don't think the costs 17:47:37:21 will be as high as it'll be.
17:47:40:00 >> The Veterans Administration 17:47:42:15 will respond.
17:47:45:03 So I think the cost will be 17:47:47:15 lower than in the bill, these
17:47:54:21 were Republicans and also 17:47:56:03 concerned about the cost.
17:47:57:03 Why not wait for the new 17:47:58:15 secretary to get in there, then
17:47:59:27 figure out what needs to be done 17:48:01:12 and move ahead.
17:48:03:06 >> There are other parts that 17:48:04:18 the new head, voted on
17:48:07:03 unanimously by the Senate, where 17:48:08:12 he needed the hiring and firing
17:48:11:15 abilities provided for in the 17:48:13:03 law.
17:48:14:03 And I don't care who you put in 17:48:16:00 that position, if they don't
17:48:17:06 have authority to hire and fire 17:48:20:18 you're not going clean up the
17:48:22:09 system. 17:48:22:24 That was part of the
17:48:23:15 legislation, as well. 17:48:24:18 It was important to give him
17:48:26:06 that. 17:48:26:15 But also to have the relief
17:48:28:09 valve of allowing veterans to go
17:48:30:18 elsewhere for care was 17:48:32:00 important, as well.
17:48:34:03 Bureaucracies, unless there's a
17:48:36:15 relief valve or a choice, people 17:48:38:18 have to go outside, just are
17:48:40:15 very rarely fixes. 17:48:43:06 >> And some of the major
17:48:44:24 headlines regarding the V.A. 17:48:47:06 problems starting right here in
17:48:48:21 Phoenix, ground zero for that, 17:48:50:21 the wait times manipulations,
17:48:53:27 does this bill specifically 17:48:56:00 address -- I know it give him
17:48:58:15 the hiring and fourth degree 17:49:01:00 power.
17:49:01:18 >> You can never write into law 17:49:04:18 every eventuality and what some
17:49:06:15 people will do. 17:49:07:24 But I think what was done here
17:49:09:15 was contrary to the law. 17:49:11:12 And that will work its way
17:49:13:12 through and those who need to be
17:49:17:24 health accidentable will be hell 17:49:21:21 accidentable.
17:49:23:09 >> Additional V.A. workers, as 17:49:25:06 well?
17:49:26:12 >> Certainly I think when you 17:49:27:15 have the wait times it's going
17:49:29:12 to require more personnel. 17:49:32:03 >> I haven't seen this
17:49:33:03 particular ad ast and I guess it
17:49:35:24 ran shortly here in Arizona. 17:49:38:18 It said this is pushed by
17:49:40:15 Michael Bloomberg and you and a
17:49:43:21 few other senators were targeted 17:49:46:03 on this.
17:49:46:18 The idea of expanding 17:49:47:21 restrictions on handgun
17:49:49:06 purchases. 17:49:49:27 Talk to us about this issue.
17:49:51:21 This is another one of those 17:49:53:12 issues that gets people very
17:49:55:03 fired up. 17:49:55:21 Your position on this, and why
17:49:57:09 do you think they targeted you. 17:50:02:00 >> I don't know, I was the
17:50:03:27 target last year of a lot of 17:50:06:03 money that was part of this
17:50:07:21 issue. 17:50:08:06 I thought we needed to work on
17:50:20:27 that issue. 17:50:21:18 Some states do a better job than
17:50:23:18 others. 17:50:24:12 I've introduced legislation long
17:50:26:09 ago with a few other senators to
17:50:28:00 make that system better. 17:50:29:15 And so I guess, because I've
17:50:33:03 said that we ought to strengthen 17:50:34:21 the background check system,
17:50:36:12 some people have felt, well, 17:50:38:12 then Jeff will probably vote for
17:50:40:15 a universal background check 17:50:43:09 system that is more than I think
17:50:46:03 any of us have contemplated. 17:50:48:09 I don't know, I guess that's
17:50:49:18 why. 17:50:50:21 >> Yeah.
17:50:51:06 I know the idea is to look at 17:50:54:12 abuse dating partners, the
17:50:56:18 latest idea, people under 17:50:59:15 restraining orders, convicted
17:51:01:27 talkers, these sorts of things, 17:51:03:18 not to be able to buy or own
17:51:06:00 guns. 17:51:06:24 What do you think of that idea?
17:51:09:00 >> The definitely is in the 17:51:10:12 details in all of this.
17:51:11:21 States have very different 17:51:13:03 definitions of talking, for
17:51:15:18 example. 17:51:16:00 And restraining orders.
17:51:18:03 Right now I believe that 17:51:19:15 legislation would include
17:51:21:06 somebody with a temporary 17:51:22:21 restraining order.
17:51:24:09 Somebody can put a temporary 17:51:25:21 restraining order on anybody
17:51:28:09 without any due process. 17:51:29:21 I think a woman somewhere in the
17:51:31:18 country put a temporary 17:51:32:24 restraining order on David
17:51:35:18 Letterman because she felt he 17:51:38:12 was stalking her or something
17:51:40:09 crazy like that. 17:51:41:09 And to deny somebody their
17:51:43:15 rights when there's no due 17:51:45:21 process involved is dangerous
17:51:49:15 territory. 17:51:50:06 The legislation needs a lot more
17:51:51:21 thorough scrubbing than it's 17:51:53:27 gotten so far.
17:51:55:00 >> There is a way to get more 17:51:56:15 due process involved in
17:51:57:15 something like that? 17:51:59:03 >> Perhaps.
17:51:59:15 We'll have to see what comes 17:52:01:18 forward.
17:52:01:27 >> Much of what we talked about 17:52:03:06 today and talked about in the
17:52:05:27 introduction is the inaction of 17:52:08:18 Congress on immigration and
17:52:09:24 other aspects, as well. 17:52:11:15 What is going on back there?
17:52:13:15 From here it sounds like a bunch 17:52:15:27 of fussing and fighting.
17:52:17:15 I've heard do-nothing Congress 17:52:20:09 numerous times.
17:52:21:12 What is going on back there? 17:52:23:18 >> Feels like that sometimes.
17:52:24:24 But at the root of it, if you 17:52:26:15 want to know what's at the root
17:52:28:06 of it, at least in the Senate, 17:52:30:15 is the inability or
17:52:32:00 unwillingness of the Senate 17:52:35:06 majority to subject their
17:52:36:12 members to tough votes in an 17:52:39:00 election year in cycle.
17:52:41:09 The Senate is a different 17:52:44:24 creature than the House.
17:52:46:06 The rules are different, 17:52:49:21 customs, presence dents.
17:52:51:27 You have the benefit of a 17:52:53:12 six-year term.
17:52:55:09 I can't tell you how nice it is 17:52:57:27 to not see my name on signs in
17:53:01:09 an even numbered year. 17:53:03:12 I guess with a six-year term
17:53:05:21 comes the responsibility to take 17:53:07:03 tough votes.
17:53:08:12 The ones that are tough to 17:53:09:21 explain, some are gotcha votes
a 17:53:13:21 30-second ADA can be made out
17:53:18:06 of. 17:53:19:03 You about six years to explain
17:53:22:21 it and you ought to take those 17:53:26:00 tough videos.
17:53:28:03 So the majority leader, when 17:53:30:12 legislation comes to the floor,
17:53:31:24 he will what's called fill the 17:53:33:24 tree, basically prevent any
17:53:35:12 Republican amendments from being 17:53:37:06 attached to the bill.
17:53:40:27 And then Republicans will 17:53:41:24 retaliate by saying we won't
17:53:45:00 grant closure or allow the about 17:53:47:09 toil procedure, which is a
17:53:48:15 60-vote requirement until we get 17:53:51:12 amendments on the bill so.
17:53:52:24 Both sides go like this and 17:53:55:00 ultimately very little comes to
17:53:57:00 the floor. 17:53:58:03 At its root is the unwilling
17:54:01:03 innocence to take tough votes. 17:54:04:24 >> Can it not be argued, why
17:54:07:03 take the if you have vote 17:54:09:24 instead of needing 51, you now
17:54:15:27 need 60. 17:54:16:27 >> When did it become part of
17:54:18:24 the voting pattern? 17:54:20:27 >> Traditionally it wasn't.
17:54:21:24 The chairman of the committee 17:54:23:00 where the bill would come from,
17:54:24:18 and the ranking minority member 17:54:26:12 would sit down with other
17:54:27:21 members and say, what amendments 17:54:29:18 do you have?
17:54:30:27 And then we're going to Schedule 17:54:32:09 3 days for the bill on the
17:54:34:15 floor. 17:54:35:15 And you use the clock in the
17:54:39:03 Senate to basically regulate how 17:54:40:27 many amendments come forward.
17:54:42:18 That's how you do business. 17:54:44:06 That's kind of how you do it in
17:54:46:15 the House, as well. 17:54:48:18 I offered a lot of all thes in
17:54:51:03 the house. 17:54:51:27 The record of futility on a lot
17:54:54:27 of these amendments. 17:54:56:09 But I was allowed to do so.
17:55:03:15 You haven't invoked the 60-vote 17:55:06:21 threshold unless you absolutely
17:55:08:06 had to. 17:55:09:03 The amendments were not allowed.
17:55:11:18 The Panama Canal Treaty, tough, 17:55:14:27 tough votes taken there.
17:55:16:03 Some 200-plus amendments overred 17:55:20:18 and deadly with for one bill.
17:55:23:15 Senator legislation, you are 17:55:27:21 going to be taking some votes
17:55:29:06 that are stuffer to explain but 17:55:31:00 you've got six years to do it.
17:55:33:12 >> I hope we can have you back 17:55:35:00 on the show.
17:55:35:21 Good to see you. 17:55:37:00 >> You, too.
17:55:38:00 >> That is it for now. 17:55:39:09 I'm Ted Simons, Thanks so much
17:55:40:12 for joining us. 17:55:42:00 You have a great evening.
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