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welcome to our show
conversations but look this I am honored to have it for special guests today
Pearl Means the wife
of the late Russell Means, American Indian activist,
actor, musician, and relative.
Hello pearl. Thank you, Lourdes.
It's a pleasure to have you here. Thank you. How far did you have to travel today
to be here with us?
Well, Lourdes, I'm from New Mexico
just east of Santa Fe and so it's
a couple a days by car. But I'm so delighted to be here.
I was reminded, driving up the coast
It must've been 1999.
Russell was filming cowboy up with Kiefer Sutherland.
And they were filming just outside of Santa Maria
so I returned with
fond memories. It's a beautiful time in the year here.
Reminiscing. Tell us a little bit about yourself
and a little bit about your
meeting Russell.
Well, I'm from navajo country
I'm Dene. The Spaniards call this
Navajo, but in our language Dene
means 'The People' and our homeland encompasses three
portions of three states: Arizona,
Utah, and New Mexico. And my people come from the New Mexico side.
I was born into the SOL clan and I come from a family of
eight. I was raised in rural New Mexico.
Russell and I have a home east of Santa Fe
and that's where he traveled from to be here with you,
and all of our community members.
Well, thank you for being here. I'm sure our audience
is delighting in your presence. I hope so.
I met Russell in 1998 in Santa Fe New Mexico.
He was with a small group of writers directors
from Hollywood. I at that time was managing
a resort property and we had accommodated
a lot of high and production companies
as they were filming quite a bit of movies at that time in New Mexico.
I was asked to participate and to offer
the brunch on a historic train ride from Santa Fe to Lamy
and Russell was part of that group. So that's how we initially met.
What was his reaction when he first saw you?
The the beautiful thing
about Russell is you always knew where you stood.
He just had this imposing presence about him.
As I stepped on the train, the last man on the train
he was the first person I saw, and he just
was standing in such a defiant stance.
and I marched right up to him, extended my hand, and introduced myself.
And I couldn't quite make the connection initially
what would American Indian Movement
leader Russell Means be doing with this small Hollywood Group
but then, quickly remembered that he also starred in Last to the Mohicans,
Michael Mann's movie that
was released back in the early 90s.
So we immediately engaged in a
very interesting conversation,
encompassed a number of topics and
we both were just delighted with the dialogue in the exchange that we had.
I always found in the dominant society
when we had an opportunity to communicate with another
indigenous person who was always a treat.
So I quite enjoy that conversation.
Well, that's a very interesting story and
I can only imagine the to of you meeting.
What a delight.
Just so much energy, good energy that must have
collided. But, at the same time...
You know the interesting thing is we talked a lot about
our personal lives there children,
cultures... I come from the Dene culture. He comes from the Lakota
Culture.
We're both indigenous peoples, yet
we have different,
different customs, obviously different languages.
But are common belief, the philosophy
of all indigenous peoples
are very much the same; our world view.
Can you please elaborate on that, because I
understand what you're talking about but I would like our audience to
further understand. Certainly. We come
as indigenous peoples about 98 percent of us come from
Matrilineal Social Systems.
And that doesn't mean that the woman takes control, or is in charge.
It means that we celebrate the differences
and therefore, we have a more balanced
society. We recognize
where the strengths of the Male. Men are very pragmatic.
They tend to social matters very well.
They're able to process
in a very effective manner.
They were defenders. They looked out after
the people, the community. They were charged with
a number of things that differ
from the female. The female being the
giver of life: Our focus is with our children,
it's with continuing are languages,
our stories.
We know that a child
up until there about five years of age,
they need the nurturing of the female
within the community; the mothers the auntes, the grandma's.
And then the male children
at that point of about six then are ready to go with the man and
and to begin learning the ways of the men.
So we come from
a system that insurers balance.
and that's not just between the sexes,
but all of life. We refer to
the Earth is being our Grandmother. We
have the heartbeat over Grandmother.
All over relatives: the green life, the Four-Leggeds,
the Water, the Winged. We all
came in with instructions, and
only human with the ability to reason
has strayed from those original instructions.
A very simple example:
Without man the equation
of the earth would be very healthy.
All of the other kingdoms would flourish. Yet, with out
those kingdoms human couldn't survive.
So that kind of puts it into perspective
as to where we are as human on
the chain of life.
So therefore we have a lot of respect
for our relatives. We're not in competition.
We we don't come from a world view of dominating,
and we're were very comfortable
with what we do know
here during this very short time that were here
which is a drop in the bucket in comparison to
a rock. So we know that were charged with
being caretakers, being good stewards
but also making decisions that are
at least based on the next seven generations.
When you come from that world view, you're not going to
over utilize. You're not going to
take an aggressive manner. you're going to come from
a very respectful place.
I would say that is indigenous peoples we
we respect are relatives visions
we understand they may differ from ours, but we respect
I
know Your life
on Earth
was troubled.
Only
you could know the pain.
I'm no stranger to the
rain.
Glorious high
on that mountain.
Son, Your work on Earth is done.
Go to
heaven's shelter.
Look for the
Father
and the Son.
Oh, How we cried
the day you left us.
We gathered round
your grave to grieve.
Wish I
could see
those angel's
faces when they
hear
your
sweet voice sing. Glorious on
that mountain.
Son, Your work
on Earth
is done.
Go to Heaven
Shouting.
Look for the Father
and the Son.
Go to Heaven
shouting. Look for the
Father, and
the Son.
Thank you. Russell's view:
I know that you mentioned that
much of that came from his ancestors. Can you please
elaborate on on what he meant by that? Certainly.
Its interest. The book, this was the last project that he worked on
so it was very important to him to get this
information out. 'If You Have Forgotten the Names of the Clouds
You've Lost Your Way'. It's a handbook on
American Indian thought and philosophy. It's just a very brief
thumbnail overview of the world that we come from.
And interesting enough the first year
that we were married Russell took
the first eight, nine months
and didn't travel, didn't take any engagements
and focused that time on getting to know me
and giving me the opportunity to get to know him
and through that period of
becoming acquainted
the level of comfort, the
secureness that was needed in order for me to embrace his life
was really a beautiful time
and a lot of what he shared with me
is what's in this book. I remember at the time,
this would have been 1999, and
I encouraged him to put it in writing.
He always stressed we come from an orel society
where those stories, the wisdoms
are past by word of mouth from generation to generation.
With this being one of his last projects
before a transitioned to the next world
I felt it's very important to get this information out
because it applies to all about us
and applies to where we are today
on the plant and
it comes from the perspective of
the indigenous world view.
I feel strongly that this this message
is timely and it's important.
It speaks to some of our
sacred ceremonies. The Lakota was charged with
seven sacred ceremonies. Russell speaks to
all over those. Incidentally they were, their spiritual direction
the Lakota people was given to them by
White Buffalo Calf Woman a female
entity.
Its it's beautifully written. It's his words.
It's the way he spoke. He was
a master orator. He came into this lifetime with
specific purpose and mission. He deviated
here and there, but he always came back to that
that path, that
voice. What He found multiple ways
to exercise the message.
Initially it was the American Indian Movement, and it was
politics, the arts. And he continued to
to find the appropriate venues to continue getting the message out
of the American Indian struggle,
the ... um ... education.
The non Indian knows very little about us
and our way of life. This was very important for Russell:
to begin educating not only Americans but the world
on our people.
Unfortunately a lot of that was a very ugly
history that has been kept from the American people;
genocide - we,
we're about one-half of one percent
have the population in america
so that speaks to the severe genocide that our people experienced.
Frank Fools Crow was so impressed with Russell's
dedication, his diligence that after that Sundance he adopted him as his
grandson. His interpreter
was a blood relative of Russell's, a
Matthew King, who
was his uncle but he always refer to Russell as his grandson.
Russell took these documentarians to these two
elders and they
asked, "Who are you sharing this knowledge with,
"all this wisdom that you have?". This was after the interview.
Grandpa Fools Crow just threw his hands up
in an exasperated motion
and and said in Lakota, "Ah,
Nobody. There's nobody to receive it."
So this was just if the height
of the American Indian Movement and the resurgence
of our beauty, our identity,
our ceremonies,
and all that AIM
represented and was all about, was just devastating for Russell
to hear this. So we went for a walk along the creek bank.
He walked for about an hour. When he returned,
he asked his grandpa Fools Crow
and his uncle Matthew King. He said, "Do
you say this because
we're no longer of
a pure heart and mind?" And both old men nodded
"Yes."
That's what he shares with me. I never said another word.
The last year that he was with us,
in the physical,
he got with his writing partner, Bayard Johnson, who would like to introduce:
They're long-time writing partners - scripts and books, and
music and on and on.
He said, "Bayard, I wanna do this: let's do this."
And so this was one of the last projects
that he did.
It's very special
because he shares with us
things that he learned, things that he was told during the early days of
the American Indian Movement. A lot of the elders
recognized Russell's
potential and purpose.They counseled with him
and shared information. He shares some of that with us
in this book. The Lakota have 52 names
in Lakota for the clouds.
They can monitor and assess the weather
for days.
Today, few Lakota know all these names.
This was his,
one of his last messages
for us, and for Humanity. Not only for us as human,
but also Grandmother, the Earth.
So, I'm very honored,
very pleased to be here.
Russell loved California, spent a lot of time here.
He spoke at probably every university
you have. So I come back,
with a lot of joy and have a lot of projects working on
um, with Bayard johnson. We're working on a documentary
'Thunder on the Plains', It will tie together
Russell's life and all that he's contributed.
We have a 4th honor in coming up,
and that'll coincide with his birthday, November 10th.
I want to extend an invitation to all of you.
It will be in Denver Colorado. It'll be a four-day
event: a two-day symposium, academic political symposium.
We'll have an art show. He was also a fabulous artist.
One of the...probably his greatest statement politically,
artistically, historically,
was what he called it the 'Indian Killer Series'. He took
12 alleged
American heroes. He did the portrait,
and then he did a narrative as to who they really were. I hope to take that
on a travel,
as a traveling exhibit at some point. But We'll feature
that series...
Lourdes, with regard to the book,
and the book signings, I would also like to mention that I'll be back in the Bay
Area
in early September. so there'll be a couple of,
I think Berkeley, San Francisco. There's a couple that'll be
setup. I will be back in the area in September.
In June I'll be doing a book signing
through Colorado and I think those cities have been designated: Pueblo,
Colorado Springs, Denver,
Boulder, and possibly,
north of there. So I am
pleased to be getting out into the communities
talkin about Russell's legacy. Russell's last book, "If
You Have Forgotten the Names of the Clouds You Have lost Your Way"
And I'm very pleased that I'll be able to do that
through the summer months.