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Life is art, art is life. This is Classic Talk with Bing and Dennis
coming to you from New York. Hello from Classic Talk with Bing and Dennis.
Today our guest is the multi-talented Paulo Szot.
Paulo has appeared in major opera houses of the world. He's appeared on Broadway,
in fact won a Tony Award for the
role of Emile de Beque in "South Pacific" and he
has sung in cabaret, many places, including Cafe Carlisle in New York.
Welcome, Paulo. Thank you. It's an honor to be here and a pleasure to talk to you.
Thank you for, you know, coming to talk with us.
And, what a career. Broadway,
opera and cabaret.
Yeah, it's quite...it's quite a little bit of everything,
right? I remember that when I...when I first became a singer I really wanted to
sing songs that I liked.
I really wanted to be able to sing everything that I...
that I would find uh...
pleasant to...to me. And uh...and after
many, many years, now I'm able to do all these things.
Opera, a little bit of Broadway, and uh, finally my... my cabaret shows with uh...
songs
from the American songbook, Brazilian songs
and uh... of course, uh...Broadway songs.
Um, I think you never really thought you would do
Broadway and uh...No. I really loved...
I was... I was born in a family that...
that shared a lot of musical uh...
information. So musicals were...were familiar to...to me as I
was growing up. But um...
because my life led me to... to opera I...
I never thought that I...I would be able one day to... to perform on a Broadway stage.
So when this opportunity came to my life
through "South Pacific" they really...because the role was written for an opera singer,
Ezio Pinza,
one of the most amazing basses in the the whole history of the opera.
And it was written for him, and they were looking for an opera singer to...
to fill that role after many decades of "South Pacific" not being done on
Broadway.
So I thought that was my chance, you know. So I came to New York,
and auditioned with many other singers. It was around 200 singers that auditioned for
that part.
And I audition a few times. And after uh...
a few auditions they chose me, and I was really, really glad that I was able to do
something new at that point in my career.
Did you think at the time...you said, I'm going to get this one?
You know I...no. I didn't think about it. I really want it,
but I thought it was a little bit too distant
to...to my reality. Maybe that's why the audition went well.
Because I really...I really didn't really... of course I cared, but I wasn't
very
uh... nervous about it. I had already a...a
a nice opera career going on, and that would be something to
add to it. What kind of adjustments when you found out you
got the role...what kind of adjustments did you feel, say, vocally? Or what did
you need to do to prepare for something
different? I was really scared to be onstage with real actors.
You know, it was the first time that I was going to be with them, and I...
and I knew that the whole process would be different
from... from an acting perspective. And I really wanted to do a good job.
The other thing was... was the language. English is not my first or second
language.
And with a French accent, right? With a French... so...so playing a...
you know, a French man in the South Pacific, being a Brazilian
from a Polish family, it's really something that, you know...A lot of
languages. A lot of languages.
So that was a little...a little...little scary for me at the beginning. But
it all depends on where you are, you know. In the case of the Lincoln Center
Theater,
it was the best place for someone like...like me. They were very patient.
And uh...and the director, Bartlett Sher, was just fantastic. And I was very lucky
to have a great cast,
who were very...uh...they were very uh...
patient and uh...they...they enjoyed
having someone from the other world to... into
their stage. So I was really lucky to...to... to arrive
at that situation on the stage. And the show was, of course,
a great success, because of the whole thing, the whole production, the whole uh...
preparation to present this show. And uh...
and we all worked very hard for that.
I guess you're ready to do it again. You know, I was two and a half years doing
that "South Pacific" and...and it was the right time, and then I went to London
to... to do the same protection for a little bit. And I thought it was the
right time to stop
after two and half years. Of course I miss...I miss...
I miss doing the show. I miss uh...the people in the show.
But uh...right now I don't know if I'm ready to go back to "South
Pacific". Maybe something else, of course if it's the right
role to go back on to... to the Broadway stage, of course. I really enjoyed the
experience
and I think it added so much to my...my
career, to my... as a person as a...as a professional,
mmm...things that I learned by...by being with these actors and uh...
trying to understand their world, and adding to my world.
I think uh...it was a great...great experience.
So if one day something from Broad...from the Broadway
world comes again in the right role that will fit me
as...as Emile did, I...I would take it definitely.
Speaking of the family, and is it your family,
you say, is very musical? And are they singers or musicians or what?
You know, my parents, they...they have similar
stories. They were both...both, uh... born in Poland
a little bit before the Second World War.
And uh... they were taken from their houses to Germany
for labor...labor camps. And after the war...
the world... the war they...they had the...the opportunity to go to South America.
With their parents, right? They were children at this time. So they arrived in
Sao Paulo,
and uh... and they met actually in the church, the Polish church in Sao
Paulo,
where...where they...they used to sing and dance Polish
uh...songs and dances. So they were...
they were very, um...
motivated by these meetings at the church where they would meet with the
other Polish people and sing and cultivate the traditions of their countries.
Because the um...it's always something very frustrating when you're...
you're taken from your home, you know, and you can't go back because you don't
have anything else.
So they...they had this feeling of...of...
of something that they lost and they wanted to cultivate
in another country. And they passed these
songs and this music, Polish music, to us... to... to...to all my brothers. I'm
the...the fifth
of a...of a family, and we are all musicians, you know.
All boys? No, no. Two brothers and two sisters.
I'm the fifth child. And um...and I remember since we were
uh... kids that, for my parents, the most important thing was
the music school. We were raised in a very little town
close to Sao Paulo. Not so close, forty kilometers from Sao Paulo.
But they had a....they had a music school, and that was
fantastic. You know, I remember um...
actually I don't remember when I started learning music, because it was...
it was very early. I just remember
knowing music as a...as a young child does when he...he's presented to a second
language. He just learns.
That's what happened with us with music, because my parents put us in the music
school so early.
And uh...I took piano and
violin for a few years. And of course I...
they had dance too, so my parents motivated all of us to dance also. I
took uh...
ballet classes, and I took all the classes possible.
And I really wanted at one point to become a dancer
first. Dance was...was my real passion.
And then when I...when I turned 18
I didn't really know what to do with my life, you know, and...and... and uh...
I remember my dad saying that the...the Polish consulate
was giving some scholarships for Polish families to send their sons to
Poland
to get to know the country, to get to learn Polish,
and eventually study. So I thought that would be the perfect
uh...occasion for me to...to, you know, to
get out of Brazil a little bit to see what my parents' country is like.
And I took it, I took a ship actually. I didn't have much money at that
time.
The ship was... was around three uh...three hundred dollars.
And it was a cargo ship. Oh. So
it took 24 days to arrive in Poland. But, you know, I was 18 and everything was
a big adventure for me.
Uh, I remember the ocean, I remember seeing all these beautiful fishes and
dolphins and
everything flying, even the flying fishes was...
was a wonderful experience. And I arrived in this...this strange country. But at the
same time
I didn't feel like a stranger because... because of my parents, you know. I...I
was... I was so inured with the Polish culture
that I felt very at home. And I started to speak Polish
after three months, so...which I didn't speak before.
Because... When you were very small you spoke Polish with your parents. I didn't, because I'm the
fifth child,
you know. My older brothers and sisters, they...they do speak, but
after a while it was kind of lost in the family. Because uh...
friends would come, and we would have to speak only Portuguese, of course.
But I remember my parents always speaking in Polish
among themselves, for us not to understand them. Understand, of course.
Any of your brothers or sisters musicians today?
They are all musicians, you know? I have uh...two sisters and one brother,
they are
music teachers. And another brother is a baritone, he sings...he's a...he's an
operatic baritone. He sings in San Paulo at the chorus. Wow.
We are all musicians, thanks to my...my dad and mom.
So you were there for eight years, right?
In Poland, yes, for eight years. I started to study and I really wanted, as I said,
I wanted to be a dancer. And I started to work very hard
in the lessons that I was able to take with a Russian teacher.
And one day I... I had an injury to my knee.
And uh...and the doctors at that time discouraged
me to.... to proceed. Because it was... it was very bad. They didn't know...know what to do.
And it was, you know 1980 -- 80s,
eighty-eight, I want to say. And um...
and I was scared. I was away from home. I couldn't walk.
And they said if you want to walk, stop dancing. And I did stop dancing.
So the next week I went to apply for the chorus in the University.
And the teacher... not a teacher, the conductor of the chorus,
made a selection of voices. And uh...
when I sang I...I don't remember what I sang to him, but I sang something to him,
he said,
you have a good material. You should invest in that.
And it was like, oh my God, I can't dance so let's sing now.
That's where it started with...Is this in Warsaw? Or in...It was in Krakow.
Oh, it's a beautiful town. So I stayed two years in Krakow, and uh...
studying. And uh...and then I got the...
the first audition for a professional company
at age of 20. I...I did...it was a...
is a... it's a national company called Shlonsk. They cultivated Polish
songs
with Polish composers, and it...sang...it was sang...sung only in...
in Polish. So the first thing to get
into this company, you have... you had to have no accent at all.
And I was very glad, because at that time I already have my Polish passport and
they didn't know
I was a foreigner. And I passed the test. I sang in Polish.
And they...they...they hired me. So I got my first job as a singer,
20...when I was 20 years old, and never stopped singing.
Do you think that because of your leg and uh...
meant to be, that's how you start your
second life, as a singer. Yeah. I was...you know, I really knew that I wanted to be on
stage, although I was very shy when I was...
when I was young. I remember taking... when I had to present myself with the
violin at the end of the year, we have to present music, and I... I...I was so shy,
and because the violin wasn't a good instrument for me...I know it's hard for
everyone
at the beginning. But I really...the piano was good.
I could...I knew that what I did at the piano
sounded okay, sounded good. But the violin wasn't good. But I...
even then I had to perform. So I was very shy about it. And I remember one time my
dad remind...
reminding me that I started the piece with my other colleague on the piano...I was
in the violin...
besides the piano. By the middle of the song I was behind the piano.
And I finished backstage. I was so shy about it.
But uh... I still am... but I knew that I wanted to be onstage, that I...
that I had something to say while I was on a stage. So when I couldn't dance,
the other possibility was singing, which was part of my life already.
Music was always part of my life. I thought, I'm going to grab this one.
So why did you go back to Brazil?
Yes. After these five years at this company, at the Polish company,
I...I...I thought it was the right time to go back to Brazil.
I missed the country, I missed my family. You were completely alone when you went to Poland.
No other family members? No.
No. Just 18-year-old, alone in...Exactly.. what was a foreign country for you.
It was a fantastic experience. I think my...my parents did the...the right thing, you
know,
in the right time. And uh....
I went back because my brother...because of my brother, who was already a singer in the...
in the Sao Paolo chorus. And they...they...they...
he told me that they were opening spaces for new...new singers in Sao Paulo.
So I went to visit my family. It was in nineteen...
um,1994.
It was...it's a funny story, because I went to visit them in Christmas.
And at the same week I got... I... I got a call from a friend of my mom's,
that she saw in the newspaper that Pavarotti was going to be in Rio for a
selection for his competition.
So...so I...I filled all the forms. I went to Rio. I got selected,
and I was a finalist to the...to the...to his uh...
contest in Philadelphia. So two things at that year:
the Pavarotti competition, and then I applied for the job
at the theater in Sao Paulo as an opera... as opera singer.
So I got both. I went as a finalist to Pavarotti's com...I didn't win that.
It was horrible
at the time. You know, I was so scared, because it was the first time that I really
got to...to meet all the singers from all over the world, and I got so scared and I got
so
nervous. And it didn't went well. But uh... it didn't go well. So uh...
I went back to Brazil, to the job, that steady job that I was going to...
to be offered. And I stayed at that job there for a year,
in Sao Paulo. And...and then I auditioned for a conductor in Sao Paulo who was
looking for new singers to perform in the next season.
I auditioned for him, and he got me...he gave me
Figaro in "Barbiere di Siviglia".
That was your debut, your very first...my first operatic role, it was Figaro.
That's a good place to start. It was...it was very scary, you know, because such...such a
big role, an important and
such known uh...arias.
So the same time...but, you know, when you're young you don't think. You're just going into it.
So what...what happened after that?
Then I started to sing. I left the chorus. I started to sing in...
in Brazil. Mostly in Brazil. And uh...the opportunities that I had there
were fantastic. Because even...you know, if go to the school you have teachers.
What...where you really learn is onstage
So Brazil gave me these opportunities to perform in many operas. At that time
the, uh...the productions were... a lot...they had a lot of productions.
So the...the operatic life was...was very
abundant. So I had many, many choices and opportunities there.
And I sang for many, many years in Sao Paulo, in Rio, in Manaus,
where there... there's this opera festival every year, for many, many years.
And um...and one day,
again, uh...someone called and say...
said that this manager is going to be in Rio, this American manager is going to be
in Rio, and he's going to...to listen
for some singers. And I went to Rio. I was in "Carmen" in Sao Paulo.
Um, not "Carmen"....it's "Camille". And I went to Rio to audition for...
for this agent. And uh...he liked me.
He said if you want to come to...to United States for a tour of
auditions. So I'm still with...with
this great man, Brzezinski, who is...who is my... my manager, and Allan Green.
And I came to the States in 2001,
in uh...end of November. And I made the first tour of
auditions in...in America. So I remember the first one was at City Opera.
And uh...and I got the first job.
Right after audition I got to... to sing two years from that
date, so
in 2003 my first uh...
uh... international opera. Which was
"Carmen". "Carmen". Yes. So do you feel like your career
seems to be pretty smooth? You know, it might seem like that,
but it's... it's quite, um...complicated, you know?
I think some people have um, this image that the
operatic career or opera singers are very glamorous and uh...
but I don't feel that way. You know, really have to sweat
our shirts to get it done. So it's hard work,
and uh... it's a never-ending work. Sure.
So it's... it's... it's you're always concerned about being better and doing something
better in...and
correcting things. So it's never a kind of job,
okay, now I got it, I'm going to do like this. Because that doesn't exist.
At least in my conception. Do you ever doubt about yourself?
All the time. Yes? All the time. You know,
I think um... I think that... but
I think this is a good thing. You know, um... of course we have to come
onstage knowing what you're doing. But uh...
I think the doubt is
a part of... of the... and the insecurities part
of what makes uh...an artist vulnerable.
And the vulnerability onstage is something that's...
makes... makes the artist grow. You know, when you connect to that person that
we see a human being, not just someone that is perfect
onstage. And I think that's...that's part of
of...of... because you know, we are all insecure, you know?
Yeah. We all have our doubts. There's... there's no
superman or superwoman in the world. I think uh...it's a normal thing...normal
thing.
You know it's a very good thing that your whole family,
you know, just love music. And I'm sure your father would...
very proud of you. Yeah, they are. They are very proud, and
uh...uh, unfortunately they don't travel anymore, but they did
a lot to see my performances and uh...Have they seen you perform here in America?
Yes, they came to see "South Pacific" when I was doing it. Oh, really?
Yeah. Twice. And, uh... and, uh...they... they loved it. You know they motivated
since we were kids, and it's thanks to them that
we were able to choose the career that
is...is uncertain. You know, it's... it's...
it's not like...you know, you never know...Not asking you to be a lawyer
or a doctor.
Exactly. You have a degree. The probability that are going to have a good job
is...
is high. But as a singer, as a musician, you never know.
You know. Never know. Do you still remember that you...
your parents come to see you and...
uh, after the performance the first thing they say to you?
I think they didn't say much. I just could see in their
eyes, you know? And my mom, she...she loved being
aside to just listen to other people saying things about the performance.
And uh...and her son. You know? And uh...
yeah, they...they were... they... they are very...
I believe they're very proud of all of us. Not just me, but my brothers and
sisters.
Are you able to find time now to go back to Brazil to
sing, or...? It's very hard. You know, the Brazilian reality right now... it's...
it's... it's... it's...
hard to... to predict. Um...
the system in Brazil, it's... it's like we... the...all the directors
and everything changes every four years with the elections.
So it's hard to have a... a continuity of work.
These things are changing. Most of the places are still like that. But
these things are changing, and uh...very serious people are
in command right now and trying to plan in advance...
uh... the seasons. Because uh...
sometimes in Brazil they would call you four months before the production,
are you available? Yeah. And it's... it's hard to find a time.
Where's your home base? I have a house where I...
close to the city where I was born. Oh, really. And that's...that's...that's my house. Yeah.
Very nice. Yeah. Which opera house in Brazil is considered the
top house? Is it Sao Paulo or the Rio? The most traditional house was Rio.
Always Rio de Janeiro where the...the great companies from Europe would come, the
whole companies, they...
they did the tour, Rio and then the Cologne in Argentina.
And uh... and they have this...this great stars and great stories
about...about these companies. So the Rio
company is the most traditional company in...in Brazil. But Sao Paulo is a very
good one too.
You mention Manaus. We have fond memories, having been there one time. But
I read that you sang in the opera O Guarani...
Yes...there. What is O Guarani? Guarani, its... it's the name of uh...of uh...
the Indian guy. The opera is about the...the... the stripe.
Who wrote it? Carlos Gomez, a Brazilian composer who studied in...
in uh... in Milan in Italy for many, many years.
And um, he has... he the most uh...
um, known opera composer in Brazil, and maybe in South America.
So he...he... he wrote many, many operas in Italian, most of them.
But Guarani, it's a very, very nice opera and uh...
even Placido Domingo recorded it in uh...Yes, we would love to hear one
clip. We've spoken so much about
"South Pacific"...Yes...at the beginning of this. Why don't we hear just...uh, we'll finish this
segment with a little bit of "South Pacific", if we may.
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Oh, that is so beautiful. Great memories from that
show. Unfortunately we have to take a break here. We will be back
very soon.
We are here today at Classic Talk with Bing and Dennis, speaking with Paulo
Szot. ~~~