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Hello, good evening, thank you for coming.
I had the feeling straightaway that there's going
to be one person who's going to be the absolute star of this
evening which is Father Bob
and also Luke but Father Bob we were just having a chat upstairs
and he's just such a great character. Father Bob I would like
to ask you when did you first hear from Luke and how did the
process of your portrait start?
What was the first thing? Twelve months ago. Twelve months,
thank you,
Luke, because you've got a little bit dementia, you know what
I mean? We're all going up there, apparently it's compulsory.
It's fashionable to have it. So I mean thank you for reminding
me of that. Twelve months? Yes, about 12 months. Yes, 12 months. Okay,
so what - There was an inquiry first I think. Was it you or
somebody else? I met him at an opening in Norman about 12 months
ago but I had the idea to paint him a few years ago and
kind of didn't really think about it until I saw him and I thought
I should get on to that. Before it's too late.
I know, I'm not - See what I mean?
So Luke what is it about Father Bob and Father Bob's demeanor
and his being attracted you to him? He's just so cranky.
But that's what everyone loves about
him, there's just no to who he is. My intelligence or anything
like that? I didn't mean it like that, I just mean there's no
pretension to who he is and I think that's a breath of fresh
air these days. Father
Bob would you
like to defend yourself against this? No, no, because I've always
believed it's easier.
Let them do what they like because I can't see any virtue in
what we present ourselves as who are we in the first place. I
like not like but I mean I expect the others will make up their
minds one way or the other who you are.
Titles like
that that they give yourself I remember being shocked when I
was in the army and somebody introduced himself "Excuse me, I'm
Major General John Smith" and I thought "No, you're not. Who
the hell do you think you are?" You can't call yourself by a
title. "I am His Eminence Cardinal"
he can't do that because it's got to be a given.
Who is Bob Maguire? I'm interested, that's all, I'd like to know
before it's over who I am. So you get various he's a fraud, cheat,
lies in media. What's
the word? ***? No, not ***, the other one. Tart. Tart,
thank you. It's pink colored lefters or George calls us cafeteria
Catholics. I'm interested because there is and you can respond
to that. I was interested in the fact that it was not going to
be conventional, it was going to be an art form
of its own
that interested me. What stems a lot - Yes, of its own. I mean
I wasn't just going to be sitting there with some this was going
to be something that came out of some part of
Luke Cornish so so to speak and the Archbishop's name as you
know is Hart, isn't it. So that affected me and also because
of the you won't like this but because of the
street art
component simply because we were working on me and my social
activist group were working on street kids for 30/40 years and
I considered life on the street to be a work of art that not
many people get to see, they see the other thing and then I've
got a soft spot for the artistic
aspect of that environment
and so Luke reminded me of maybe an obligation
to submit myself. But
you've had your portrait painted quite a few times, haven't you? Yes. And
so Luke actually how do you because you know Father Bob is such
a famous figure both in his work but also in your appearance,
Father Bob, and you can't get away from it. I'm Scottish. You're
a famous face, you're a famous Australian. But you're plastered
all over the state eventually. This is going on the internet.
You better wave to the internet. As well hello internet. So
actually Luke does Father Bob's although I do suspect that that's
only skin deep. That's what everyone learns about him. Yes.
But how do you sort of get beyond that? How do you get beyond
the image of Father
Bob to a deeper image? I think I've known Bob from his work
with John Safran on triple j. It was more to do with his comedy
than his community work
really. So did you
kind of get to know Father Bob actually in an oral sense more
than visually? We would spend a little bit of time together
since we met. Yes, but before that? Yes,
basically. Right. That's an interesting way of getting - What
about your grandfather? He keeps saying banging honor. You didn't
mention to these lovely people the grandfather. He reminds me
a lot of my grandfather. Thank
you. Finally we get it out of you, Luke, Well my grandfather
passed away about ten years ago which was before I really had
the chance to get to know him so it's kind of been nice to spend
a bit of time with Bob to get the opportunity I didn't have 10
years ago. What
sort of relationship
would you say you have now with Father Bob? I guess it's the
same as I would have with my grandpa. He was just cranky, I don't
know what he's talking about. And
it's platonic. It is. None of that
Sydney business. What are you getting at? Okay, maybe we should
move on now Father Bob. On your show, we are on your show. I'm
just not sure which channel you would go on.
So you agreed to have your portrait painted and what happened
next? We met up at his parish in South Melbourne and had a sitting,
took some photos, and had some lunch. Are you sure I gave you
lunch? Oh you had that on that long camera. 7-11 sandwiches. Half. Just
half? Half, yes. He's
an artist. He's
a priest so we're both kind of broke. He's an artist, he's supposed
to be poor. I can't eat, I can't do this. It's going to all
be directed into the art, not looking after your money. So you
had lunch and then what happened? I took some photos and went
on my way. I sat. He sat, he sat for me, I did some sketches
and just went
from there. When you're painting somebody's portrait how do
you get the person to relax and kind of so that you can see who
they really are? It wasn't too hard with him. No,
but also the stencil art
in its own right shut me up from saying the wrong thingy but
I mean you don't have to sit
for too long.
The relationship is different with stencil art, isn't it? I mean
who am I to tell you for God's sake. Can you talk us through
the process of making the portrait,
Luke? So I take the image and then blow it up and cut the stencils
from that image. So I did 30 stencils to cut his so it's layered
up on the canvas.
So it's very different than traditional painting but it is 2012
so that we can start to try some new things. Am
I correct in saying that you are the first artist to do this
type of work that's got into the finals of the Archibald? Yes,
that's correct. Okay, that's fantastic, congratulations. First
street artist. So it
sort of feels like there's a little bit of an elephant in the
room, the whole street artist thing. Would you like to clear
it up for us? I've
never referred to myself as a street artist. I've just been sort
of labeled a street artist. I do street art but it's very hard
to explain to people that I'm not a street artist
if you know what I mean. No, explain some more. So you do street
art - It's stencil art, stencil art is the medium while street
artist is just the arena that it's shown in. I really don't do
that much work on the street and that's only because I do so
much in galleries these days. And once it's in a gallery it's
no longer street art. Yes,
for sure. But
I think also I don't mean to interrupt
it's also a generational thing as far as I'm concerned.
Galleries and art
my generation more or less understands that the next generation
after us of course and the next one revels in it as one of the
pillars of wisdom in our society.
There's another generation, his generation and the one coming
on, that's even
what's the word stranger.
I mean it's fascinating to me but there are so many wide people
around and I keep joking about this as a baptism of a baby, I
said "You're not just the baby, this model baby has got a longer
thumb" which they take seriously unfortunately because I said
the baby is already born to text,
designed look at this, this is the evolution he represents to
me, the evolution of this marvelous generation and what EX or
what or Y, is it EY? I'm X. When were you born, Luke? '79. Oh,
okay, you are Y. Yes, because that generation to me is an old
person in a young country what are we 200 years old which is
nothing. But this generation, his generation and the one afterwards,
to me speaks very loudly as a very compassionate slash
artistic generation. That's what I mean. I mean we only share
their blood
that's a joke, because they forget and Safran's always reminding
me anything that's more than 25 years ago
Bob 25 years ago. But I mean I'm thinking more of the future
for them, that they give you hope for the future. We've got
to clean up your mess. All right, we've got political makings
here. I would just like to say, Father Bob, that you give us
the hope for the future. You're not going yet. I'm
Scottish, that's the whole point of the portrait in fact. If
you look at that thing he drags me into the studio what do you
think of that? What am I going to say? So actually what happened
when you - He dragged me into the studio, didn't you? Come in
here. Come in here. And there and
there no tact,
manners, respect but no reverence
the Aussie motto.
But there's the thing, it's in around the corner there, somewhere
it was downstairs, and I looked and I said "Well what the
because that's depicted you see and it's boring that my history
with church authorities but that portrait showed how I felt. I
thought you liked it. I'm not saying I liked it, that would
be like being run over by a tank which is what they did, they
poured in bag and --. Well I didn't, in my case they did, so
when I get up off the ground "Let's see how I looked." Flattened
but at
the same time with a bit of Scottish whatever it is in it that
says you might think we're down but we're not out. And we declared
Scottish Independence, aren't we? We are and in a minute the
guy says "Bloody British." They thought they'd run over us but
guess what folks? So Father Bob - That's what I see because
with my age one needs and especially if they ran a Catholic priest
for God's sake, this is their problem,
one of the current problems surrounding Catholic clergy is in
fact we've had what they call personality
wrung out of us so you end up in all kinds of emotional predicaments,
some of which are ghastly and some of which according to Sydney
this morning are understandable but they're still emotional minefields.
So it's very hard to know who you are. And
seeing the portrait, seeing this magnificent portrait of you
- Same one. But
also did you see something else in the portrait that you sort
of thought actually there is something - Well someone said that
I suppose I saw something
that what's called resilience or something which you need reinforcing,
you need reassurance. It reassured me too because it reassured
me that I wasn't dead,
you know what I mean, which the forces of whatever it is that
tend to want you to the quicker the better. So he does marvelous
work I was told by the Archbishop. Marvelous, what he does is
marvelous, but don't dare. So I
said it wouldn't just be marvelous work, why would you move?
But that's what happened so it was a bit of shock and it was
a bit of whatever it is. There's a bit of intent,
you know what I mean, Scottish intent, that you'll be there and
you'll stay there. And
Luke, what would you have done - We're losing the audience,
quick. What would you have done if Father Bob has said "Actually
I just don't like that at all, that doesn't resonate with me." I
still would have tucked
it in because I spent so much time on it. Okay, but luckily
he didn't? Yes, luckily. I
had no intention of you know what I mean? Because once the game's
afoot, isn't it, as Shakespeare said isn't it the game's afoot,
the rabbit's are running. And that's the miracle of life for
God's sake, isn't it? That you I mean if you want to control
it really I mean that's not life for God's sake, it's the beauty
of the creativity of chaos. I'm a great believer in creative
chaos. People say it's chaotic, the way it is is chaotic and
I say "Well have another look
comrade. You'll probably find creative chaos" which I presume
art is, isn't
it? I presume. Father Bob you spoke of compassion just a while
ago and Luke I was wondering whether that's an important emotion
when you're painting somebody's portrait to have a feeling of
compassion. I think artists are a pretty empathetic bunch. Just
trying to get into the psyche of Bob and trying to find out who
he is, to translate that onto canvas. When he sat for you did
you talk actually Father Bob or was it a pretty silent session. We
spoke a bit. I don't know if we talked. I think we might have.
What's it called in the trade? You're all experts on this banter,
isn't it? We got to be able to banter there, you can't say anything
deadly serious unless you're full of banter.
In the old day we would have said "Full of ***" isn't it?
But I mean now it's banter, it's the cement that you can't there's
even a whole is there a whole craft there now called TED, isn't
it, where you're supposed to talk deeply and meaningfully 18
minutes. Actually it's 10, Father Bob, sorry to disappoint you. It's not 18.
Ten minutes. But you've got to be technologically savvy and you've
got to be entertaining. But you tweet, you're the master of
140 characters or fewer. Info-tainment I accept as being I can't
see any other word unfortunately of getting the message across
and this is thank
you because he gives me a chance once again to get the message
across. The message has nothing to do with me, the message has
got to do with us
like the boxer what's his name? Mohammed Ali. Mohammed Ali,
you remember that? We made a movie about it. Yes, you did,
I saw it. But I mean when some -- student was it Harvard I think
they had him there as a guest speaker for something, remember
that, some killed yelled at "Give us a poem"
so we're laughing,
he's a boxer, he wouldn't know a poem if it fell. But he then
said did he say and not fight over this we,
me- Me we - Well I keep saying it's we -me, I want that, but
I think it probably is me-we, it suits my philosophy that's all
I'm saying because there's no me without we, you know what I
mean? I can't understand any I'm not I'm Bob Maguire I have to
look at bloody paintings to
see same one. It doesn't matter to me because it's the we, the
environment, that's what the world so that little poem gets me
a little
bit spiritually excited
the idea that we're all in this together. Now if he thank you
wants to use me as part of his journey well then I'm more than
grateful if somebody sees it and says "Poor old buggy and we
thought he was full of what. Here it looks like the poor old
buggy or whatever had a side to him." Do you know what I mean?
Which is deadly serious
but not for long. Luke,
do you feel like you're thinking about the world has changed
since your relationship with Father Bob has developed? Well
my world has entirely, just with
the media attention surrounding this pace. I don't know what
sparked that but it's just the whole Accra has blown up in the
last two months.
I joke that he's cranky, I painted him because he's cranky but
I think it's a little bit more intrinsic than that.
I don't really question it, I just knew that it was right. Do
you feel that you have an ongoing relationship now with each
other? We chat on the phone sometimes. No, we can't, I'm terribly
sorry. You're quite busy, Father. I live alone, the dogs need
to be fed now. Yes, you've got to do your tweeting. Hey Luke,
also I wanted to ask you because you do kind of sit between street
art and gallery art. Yes, I'm kind of wedged firmly between
the two. Yes, which is a nice sort of - It's a good spot to
be, it's a happy medium because I'm kind of
I get interests from each side
which is kind of nice. So why did you
decide to enter the Archibald? I
haven't been asked that before. Maybe
I guess it was just the next logical step. I didn't think for
a million years I'd actually get into the Archibald's but it
was always maybe nice to have on the CV that I'd entered so it
really feels like a bit of a Disney movie that I got into this
so I just like no straight artist had ever or stencil artist
had ever gotten in so I
didn't think it would happen. Father
Bob is there a sort of Roman Catholic equivalent to the Archibald
Prize? You know there used to be a thing in the early days,
I remember the '60s, what was that? The Blake. It's
still around. But
then it was specifically, it wasn't religious art, and then of
course I think somebody worked after the fact that this is Australia
and therefore probably you should be talking about spirituality
rather than religion and then it broadened so that so many things
we do, I think Australians are probably one of the most spiritual
nations on earth but not religious.
I mentioned religion for God's sake because we stand respect
but we can't stand reverence, you know what I mean, which kicks
religion out because religion's all about reverence and not often
about respect,
you know what I mean? So there was the Blake, I remember some
beautiful things done for the Blake. But then again if you walk
through the gallery here I would say these are marvelous works
of spirituality.
I presume that's what the art is, a free range, isn't it? Whereas
religion tends to make art what do you call it battery
hens- what do you call that? Yes, battery hens. Battery hens
whereas the other is free range. You
know the way you and Luke so Luke's there between stencil art
and gallery art and you're sometimes considered a little bit
of an outsider in a way from the Roman Catholic Church. Are there
things about - But I'm not, you see, that's their problem, their
problem is I'm not you see and I wish to God I would leave because
it would solve the problem for them. But you see I'm Scottish
with a motto Robert Bruce was probably something like if you
can't convince then confuse them
that's all. I just live in hope in that. Do you ever wish, Father
Bob, that
your career had been different? Did you ever wish that you would
have been more on the inside in a way? On the inside? Well
sort of institutionally? Look,
the institution I
mean talking now to a mob that's run and occupied Melbourne
and occupy Wall Street and all that. And I'm saying well maybe
the goal now is to occupy Catholicism.
I mean 99% are entitled to take the church it's theirs for God's
sake except it's where the success of the Roman Empire which
means everything is going to be like that, you see, it's hard
to wriggle out, you know, any --.
We thank the Romans for the aqueducts and for the end of the
roads and everything else but the price you pay for that can
be enormous, lots
of personal and that then of course would I think probably be
seen in the change in art in churches and things because we're
becoming experimental, weren't we, and then all of a sudden the
doors have been shut or have become you can only have those statues,
you can only have those paintings, you can only have those songs,
you can only have this, you can only have that that's the Roman
way. But for five minutes the window is open
and we ran away
and kind of agile
type of freedom. But
it's a funny show but don't go folks because I think there's
more in Catholicism than we've seen,
like the next act would in fact be spectacular if in fact you've
got an act of global repentance,
For Sale sign outside you
know what I mean. Luke, do you feel that there's a kind of artistic
equivalent to Roman Catholicism in terms of the institution
of western art that there are set rules? Maybe street art and
the numbers of people doing it, yes, it's pretty big. I don't
know, I can't answer that. But
you were saying off air
that there's as much institutionalism in art
as he said that off the air, he did. I guess there are similarities,
we were talking about this before. Yes, because you did just
say also about your CV it would look good to have an Archibald
finalist on the CV. I don't know, I guess the establishments
are very similar, it's all about the money, isn't it, at that
level. Yes. Okay,
Father Bob, a final I'd like to ask you both for a final word
of advice first of all you Luke, a word of advice about being
an artist. Be
nice to people,
that's it's, that's all you need to do, just work hard, be nice
to people. Yes, beautiful. Father Bob? Well just the usual
I suppose like it's no longer them and us, just we. You
can try harder than that. What? You can try harder than
that. Well I'd like to thank you - Side by side we stick together
how's that? That's
better. Any --. And
this is the town after all that pinched the bloody swans from
my town. Come on, there will be no holding back on that. It's
clear why this portrait has become is such a beautiful work of
art your relationship is just - It's got nothing to do with
me, it's all him. You're in
denial now. No, I was just saying it's all about you, it's all
about your personality. It's all about me. Well I hope we see
more of you, both of you in the future. Perhaps
we should both leave and we'll just leave Father Bob here. Just
leave the microphone on. We'll just leave you here, Father Bob.
You're okay, you've got some water and stuff. Thank you. Okay. The
only time I'll get in, this is the first and only time I'd probably
get into a beautiful art gallery
so I'm very grateful, thank you. My pleasure.
Father Bob and Luke Cornish thank you both very much.