Tip:
Highlight text to annotate it
X
MIKE SPINELLI: The E30 BMW M3, is it the most overhyped,
overprice classic car of our generation or an appreciating
icon worth every inflated penny and more?
We'll ask our panel of experts.
Also, is the "Toyobaru" T-86 BRZ leading a revolution in
affordable rear-drive sports cars?
That's all today on "AFTER/DRIVE."
[THEME MUSIC]
MIKE SPINELLI: So what is it about BMW's first M3 that
makes sober-minded men with money to burn
go weak in the wallet?
Yes, the 1980s was an important time for production
racing sedans.
BMW desperately needed a car to stomp rival Mercedes Benz
in touring car competition.
The M3 was that car, and was it ever.
It had an angry 4-cylinder that pulled all the way to
infinity, handling balance as perfect as German racing
engineers could make it, and box flares that would make
Kate Upton quit bikinis and hang around the Dairy Queen
for the rest of her miserable blonde life.
Not really.
Anyway, the remaining E30 M3's on the road have become very
high-ticket items with prices set to double from where they
were just a few years ago.
What's going on?
I think I know, but let's hear from the experts.
"Jalopnik" editor Travis Okulski, and Classic Car Club
Manhattan's Mike Prichinello and Zac Moseley.
Travis.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: So according to "Sports Car Market," the
E30 M3 has gone up 27% in the last year.
MIKE SPINELLI: 27% in value.
And the other thing they said, which is interesting, is that
they gave it five stars, which means that
it's going to continue.
At least they're projecting it's going to continue--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Right.
MIKE SPINELLI: --to go up in value.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: It's an investment now.
MIKE SPINELLI: It's an investment now.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Instead of just being a car you drive
around on a racetrack, it's a car now that people might
start parking when they buy to let it accrue value.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Ugh!
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, that's would be a bad thing.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: I hate that.
MIKE SPINELLI: Mike and Zac from
Classic Car Club Manhattan.
So you guys, you guys, it's--
I know I just came from your place a couple of-- well, it
was last week or two weeks ago, and you had one that
looked mint.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Yeah.
MIKE SPINELLI: And you've had other ones before So like
what's the--
ZAC MOSELEY: Yeah, you know, when we started the club in
2005, I was offered a pretty decent driver, you know, in
good shape, maintained, a couple
modifications for like 12,000.
And I was like, ah, that's kind of expensive.
This one that we just sold, it was at 164,000 miles, but the
whole car had been rebuilt over the past 10 years.
It was perfect.
And I could have sold it 10 times over for asking price,
which is 28,500.
MIKE SPINELLI: Wow.
ZAC MOSELEY: I probably should have--
MIKE SPINELLI: Wow!
ZAC MOSELEY: --made it low 30's.
MIKE SPINELLI: With 164--
but well maintained.
By the way, probably the best-looking interior--
ZAC MOSELEY: It was a good-looking car, wasn't it?
MIKE SPINELLI: --I've seen since the New York
Auto Show in 1987.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: I wanted to buy it from him.
And then all these offers started coming.
I was like, oh!
[LAUGHTER]
MIKE PRICHINELLO: I've already driven it.
It's cool.
ZAC MOSELEY: And I'm convinced, you could roll that
car into a BMW showroom today.
It was a really modern color combo.
It was like salmon grey with a cardinal interior.
And someone would be like, all right, they finally got the
one series, right?
You know it looked like a modern car.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right.
OK, so on Twitter, Andrew Attia says, "I was looking at
some to buy last night on Craigslist.
The cheapest one was 20K.
you're paying for the lineage, I guess." we'll talk about the
lineage in a little bit.
Joe Hogg says, "As well as clean E46 M3's and even some
of the high-mileage E60's M5's at 30 grand, I love E30's, but
they're becoming wealthy toys." They were sort of
always wealthy toys, but they did have a down period.
"They're awesome and worth it.
The most successful touring car, aren't they?" We'll talk
about that.
Nick Gannoway said that.
And then on Facebook, there was actually a pretty good
thread on the "DRIVE" Facebook page.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Dozens.
MIKE SPINELLI: Literally dozens of people
talking about it.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Around the world.
MIKE SPINELLI: Around the world. "The E30 M3 is God's
chariot," says John Robert Burrow.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Ooh.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Wow.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Like him.
MIKE SPINELLI: Exactly.
"The same thing happened to all rear-wheel
drive cars of its era.
It's the drift tax.
Hipsters ruin everything," says JILO.
Damn hipsters.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: They do.
MIKE SPINELLI: Ruin everything.
Also, "the E30 M3 is the greatest car BMW has made in
my lifetime.
In fact, I'd say it's the last great BMW, definitely the last
overengineered one." Well, maybe not the last.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Mike--
MIKE SPINELLI: We'll talk about that.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: --V10 M5's, but whatever.
MIKE SPINELLI: Gordon Inch.
That was Gordon Inch.
And then, "I don't know about inflated, but I'd love people
to stop ripping the S14 out of them," says Josh Mast.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Yeah, good man.
MIKE SPINELLI: So S14.
So as the people tend to have in the past ripped the
4-cylinder out and put in an inline-6 or mainly the E36--
ZAC MOSELEY: Yeah, well, it happens.
And the S14 is becoming a really
expensive motor to rebuild.
[VIDEO PLAYBACK]
MIKE SPINELLI: Zac, you just got the engine rebuilt.
What did that set you back?
ZAC MOSELEY: About 12,000.
MIKE SPINELLI: 12,000?
ZAC MOSELEY: Yeah.
MIKE SPINELLI: 12,000?
That's more than like a flat-6.
ZAC MOSELEY: Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, you can buy an E36 as a rebuilt for about
3,000, low miles, [INAUDIBLE].
MIKE SPINELLI: So drove up the cost so much?
ZAC MOSELEY: Well, just the parts are getting so
expensive, and to find a shop that does the labor properly.
But the stuff like the chain tensioner rails.
These little plastic rails are $350 apiece, and there's like
three of them.
So you spend like $1,000 on chain tensioners.
And then you've got your pistons and
all this other ***.
So it's really expensive, and it's become such
a specialist thing.
Yeah.
[END VIDEO PLAYBACK]
MIKE SPINELLI: So OK, so let's talk about the Legacy a little
bit, the most successful road car in history still.
Not the Miata?
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Racing car.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Racing car.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Not the Miata, unfortunately, even though--
MIKE SPINELLI: Road racing car, yes, exactly.
Not road car, road racing car.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Road racing car, yeah.
MIKE SPINELLI: In road racing.
Also, did mostly DTM and World Touring car in whatever
incarnation that was back in the '80s as they kept shifting
around, you know, Bathurst.
And even like Tarmac Rally, it had some success there, right?
ZAC MOSELEY: Yeah, I mean, the statistics are something like
it won a race on average every day of the year for four years
or something?
MIKE SPINELLI: Pretty damn amazing.
Yeah, exactly.
So yes, it's got that-- and actually, that could have been
the peak of touring car racing in terms of popularity.
Because that was when like World Touring Car came, that
sort of big World Touring Car series came together.
And then Formula One started complaining that it was taking
the thunder away from Formula One.
So they kind of like, yeah, well, we're going to kill that
big World Touring car series.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Wow.
MIKE SPINELLI: So it was a big time, a lot of wins, and it's
a helluva car.
So you guys have driven a lot of these, right?
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Yeah, yeah.
We've been lucky to have some pretty healthy experience on
the road and on the track in them.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
So what is it about generally the E30 generation M3 that is
that experience?
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Well, the driving experience.
I mean, it's probably the purest, most balanced car
that's actually accessible, too.
The newer ones are awesome bits of machinery at 414
horsepower or whatever.
But you're not going to be able to put your foot fully
into it unless you're really good.
This car, it's totally unflappable.
You can really drive with a moderate amount of skill at
your limit and get the most out of it, you know?
MIKE SPINELLI: It's funny because every single thing
I've ever read about, it says that.
And journalists--
and I'm not going to take the opportunity to bag on
journalists, but they tend to--
they sort of ruined cars through the years by saying,
well, snap oversteer on this or that.
Like in Toyota's case, the MR2, second gen MR2, they
said, oh, snap oversteer, and so Toyota totally neutered it.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Same with the S2000, too, when they said
that snap oversteer all the time.
MIKE SPINELLI: Exactly.
But this came out perfect, and that's what everybody's been
talking about.
I mean, it's just balance and--
MIKE PRICHINELLO: You know, for me, you always think of a
BMW as a driver's car.
Mercedes is maybe not for a driver as much as BMW is.
And they're always a little aggressive.
They're always--
they're always fun.
They have great chassis.
I always say, like, new M3's, they're like a new pair of
sneakers, really springy.
But the E30 is the same thing without all the electronics.
So your connectivity to the road is amplified in it many,
many times over.
And you even feel like you're going fast.
You know, by today's standards,
it's not a fast car.
It's certainly not a slow car.
Especially if you get it up in the revs, it really starts to
take off on you.
But the experiences is that you're driving really quick.
And the ones that we have are a little noisy and a little
shouty, and on the West Side Highway, that's quite good
fun, actually.
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, yeah.
I mean, it's a perfect sort of urban, extra-urban sports car
because it's fun at low speeds.
It's kind of the--
MIKE PRICHINELLO: It's also really one of the first track
cars you could buy of your everyday car, right?
I mean, I know there's the [INAUDIBLE] and there's all
these other iterations of cars like that.
But I think for the American market, this was really one of
those first ones where you could really drive a race car
on the road.
And now everything is sort of marketed that way.
But this really started that trend off.
MIKE SPINELLI: But that's a good point because I feel like
that Europeans have a different-- a little bit
different view of the E30 M3 because they got so many
different versions of it.
They got more powerful versions of it.
They had the Evo 1, Evo 2, and the Roberto Ravaglia edition,
and this edition and that edition.
They had the dog-leg.
Like are the American ones had the straight-H pattern.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: We had the scraps version of it, but it's
still really good.
MIKE SPINELLI: But it was still a great car.
So Europeans may even have a little bit more maybe a racier
remembrance of it.
But for us, it really was the first car like that.
And when you think about it, OK, it came out just under 200
horsepower or something from a 2.3-liter four, right?
So naturally aspirated.
What naturally aspirated four in America was making 200
horsepower back then?
Nothing.
It could be anywhere.
I mean, really, like, so what was the deal with that motor?
I mean, it was the original--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: It's some derivative of a 2002 block,
yeah, with that double overhead cam and lots of revs,
and that's--
MIKE SPINELLI: I mean, so is the M1
heads on it or something?
ZAC MOSELEY: Yeah, yeah, M1 heads.
I mean, you've got to rink its neck, but it's really
satisfying immediately, you know?
MIKE SPINELLI: And it revs to like-- what was it?
ZAC MOSELEY: 7,000 yeah.
MIKE SPINELLI: And it just pulls all
the way just to 7,000?
ZAC MOSELEY: Yeah.
MIKE SPINELLI: All right.
So let's talk about--
MIKE PRICHINELLO: It has like a motorcycle throttle to it.
The higher you get up in those revs, the way
more happy it is.
That's kind of what's fun.
It's a very European feel, I'd say, too,
especially for the '80s.
MIKE SPINELLI: That's interesting.
Wait, because Americans weren't really used to that
kind of thing.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Kind of V8.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, exactly.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Gunga, gunga, gunga.
MIKE SPINELLI: Because when you think about
it, what did the--
like the 5.0 Mustang, the Mustang GT back then had 205
horsepower?
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Right.
But I
MIKE SPINELLI: Mean--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Out of what?
5 liters?
MIKE SPINELLI: Out of 5 liters, right.
Giant low--
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Lazy engineering.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, right, exactly.
It was just like, well, we'll put all this smog crap on top.
It was all torque basically.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Mm-hm.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Right.
MIKE SPINELLI: This is sort of the opposite of that.
So talking about the values now, one of the things that
they were talking about is that it's getting harder and
harder-- and a lot of cars are like this.
It's harder and harder to find one that was original.
Because a lot of people over the years, when they could and
when the S14 motor, the four cylinder, is really expensive
to rebuild, they would put any E36 motor in.
They'd put an inline 6 in it.
So again, finding an original one is harder.
When you guys bought them in the past, how
did you find them?
And what was the experience?
ZAC MOSELEY: Funny enough, they all come to us.
But that's unique to our situation.
I mean, they're out there, but they are rare cars.
They're getting rarer and rarer because there's less
that are not monkeyed around with.
They only had sent 5,000 to the US to start with.
So [INAUDIBLE]
puts you tenfold less than other competitors.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: You've got to figure, a lot of people who
drove them crashed them, too, right?
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: I would imagine [INAUDIBLE]
If you're driving like you're supposed to.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: I almost have, so I figured somebody
else has as well
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, I mean just kind of surviving,
because it's been 27 years.
I mean, let's face it-- are 25, I guess.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Yeah, they've done a
lot of track miles.
They're becoming quite rare.
I also think it's hard to find one that, aside from engine
swaps, they're a fun car to modify.
And so people have all tried their hand at
it, including us.
We drove here today in one that has Recaro seats, a
five-point harness and a roll cage.
MIKE SPINELLI: That's a great car, by the way.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Yeah, that's a great car.
MIKE SPINELLI: That could be one of the most fun cars I've
ever driven, and I only drove it in the rain at
Monticello that time.
ZAC MOSELEY: That makes it more fun.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: That's the best of environment overall.
MIKE SPINELLI: It is.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Monticello, rain.
MIKE SPINELLI: It is.
It is, just because it doesn't-- it brakes away so
naturally and progressively.
I think that's the thing about this, because even the
baseline E30s are a little snappy.
They don't load up and then unload progressively.
They load up, and then if you mess up--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: They unload.
MIKE SPINELLI: --they unload.
Unbalanced, right, exactly.
So you'll get that kind of snap oversteer thing going on.
But this one, it just kind of-- it's like when you--
I just remembered.
Remember when you used to play with--
[CELL PHONE RINGING]
MIKE SPINELLI: Who's calling?
It's Leo Parente.
Yeah, I'm going to have to put you on--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Speaker.
MIKE SPINELLI: --on quiet for a second.
But the thing about the--
should we keep going?
[CAR ENGINE]
[CAR ENGINE REVVING]
MIKE SPINELLI: I'm going to start with this.
The thing that I noticed the most about driving the E30 is
that it's exactly like how-- do you remember when you would
play with Matchbox cars or Hot Wheels, and you would make
them drift.
And you'd always make the perfect drift.
And it was like you would slide them that way?
That's how you--
MIKE PRICHINELLO: It's an obscure reference, but I think
I'm following it.
I'm following it.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: None of the wheels are turned all.
You're just going right through them.
MIKE SPINELLI: Or you throw them across the wood floor
this way so they would drift perfectly and then they'd
straight out?
That's what this is like.
I mean, it literally--
they say it all the time.
It's progressive or whatever.
It's very easy to drive, but it is very easy to drift.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: I think it's a good car for people who are
really into learning how to be better drivers, who want to do
some track days and stuff because the power is there,
but it won't kill you.
And like you said, it is really progressive, and it's
predictable.
It does make you a better driver.
Because when it does oversteer, it's manageable.
It's a bit in slow motion, I think.
And it just helps you explore the boundaries or the limits
of a car and the physics of driving a little bit more than
I think other ones have.
And that's probably why it's been really
endearing to people.
It's sort of like a Nissan GTR.
It's a great car.
But it's been Car of the Year multiple times because
journalists could put down a really hot lap because it
sorts you out really quick.
And although this isn't electronic like that one is, I
think it does it in a really nice way mechanically.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yes.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: And so it endears itself to people.
MIKE SPINELLI: But that's a really good point because this
is a car that a lot of people of a certain age equate with
the BMW experience.
And now since then, you've got these heavier cars.
They're engineered, not necessarily better, because
they think in a lot of ways this was overengineered, but
engineered differently because there's so much more
complexity to it.
You drive a modern M3, I mean, it's like driving the lunar
module compared to this thing.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Well, the other thing is it
weighs twice as much.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: And that's most of it, right?
The weight of a car just sort of neuters it.
But it has to.
It has to have airbags.
It has to have all those things that
Congress says it needs.
MIKE SPINELLI: In other words, if you're looking for purity,
if you're looking for that pure sports car experience,
you have to kind of go back to something like this.
And that's where the demand starts coming in, and you get
prices going up.
So we're talking about the "Sports Car"--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: "Market."
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
I want to say "Digest" every time.
"Sports Car Market," 27% increase, and
looking to go more.
But in the past six years, they've doubled, right?
So you used to be able to get this for--
I mean, even more than doubled.
You used to be able to get one of these for 12,000.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Yeah, exactly.
MIKE SPINELLI: I mean, that was a lot for a used car.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: That was about the price that when I was
looking for a first car, this was on my list.
I wanted an E30 M3, or a Miata, or
something similar, a Prelude.
And I had to go with the Miata because it's
what I could afford.
And an M3 was 12,000 to 13,000 at that time, which
was nine years ago.
So now it's way out of my league.
MIKE SPINELLI: Now they're double in price.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: I still can't afford them, unfortunately.
Honestly, a lot of people didn't see this coming as an
investment.
And I guess that's what happens with a lot of
investments.
ZAC MOSELEY: If you look at it, I mean, as collector cars
go, while 30,000 in the sense we're speaking for an M3 is a
lot of money, for an E30 M3, 30,000 for a
collector car is like--
it's just getting started, right?
MIKE SPINELLI: That's true.
ZAC MOSELEY: And if you look at all the things that--
the boxes you want to tick for a collector car, it
ticks all of them.
You know, it's low production.
It has race pedigree and a great story behind it.
It has history.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: It has box flares.
ZAC MOSELEY: Yeah, it has box flares.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Everybody loves a box flare.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, what is it with box-- that's something
that's gone.
Box flares are like the spats of--
[LAUGHTER]
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Spats of automotive racing.
ZAC MOSELEY: They're going to come back out.
Audi is trying really hard to bring the box flare--
MIKE SPINELLI: To bring spats back?
ZAC MOSELEY: Oh, yeah, spats, too.
Both.
[LAUGHTER]
ZAC MOSELEY: But yeah, it has all the stuff.
It's a massive bit of engineering for the time.
The sophistication of that engine is incredible.
So you put all those pieces together, and then you look at
comparables.
Like in the late '80s, the G50 gearbox 911, there are so many
of those on the market, and they're kind of loaded, high
20's all day long.
So slide an M3 in there.
It's a lot rarer to find a nice M3 versus a nice 911 at
the same time, you'll look 10 times as hard.
And you're paying about the same money, so it's only going
to go one direction.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
No, it's true.
I mean, I once called this the Hemi 'Cuda of our generation.
I think the only thing that's different between a Hemi 'Cuda
and this is that that $5 million Hemi 'Cuda
convertible, there were only like six or seven made.
So we never got the really cool special editions.
So yeah, and the Europeans can kind of fight over the Evos
and Evo 2's and stuff.
Yeah, so next year, 35, 40,000?
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Probably.
MIKE SPINELLI: So pick them up now?
I mean, considering how fast your car went, and you got all
the money for it, I can't believe that this would be
going for any less than 35,000.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Zac's went up 30% in a week, right?
MIKE SPINELLI: Right.
In a week.
I mean, that was good negotiating.
I wouldn't want to be on the other side of the table with
you guys, I'll tell you that.
ZAC MOSELEY: I'm the nice guy.
MIKE SPINELLI: You guys are good cop and bad cop?
ZAC MOSELEY: Nah.
MIKE SPINELLI: Or bad cop and worse cop?
MIKE PRICHINELLO: We're both pretty-- we're
good cops, good cops.
MIKE SPINELLI: Just good cops.
So the E30 BMW M3, that's it.
So next, the "Toyobaru" BRZ FRS--
FR GT80 something.
Did that car, and is it opening up the floodgates for
more affordable rear drive fun sports cars?
So Travis--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: I'm Travis.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yes, Travis.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Yes.
MIKE SPINELLI: First of all, BRZ and FRS,
how are sales doing?
TRAVIS OKULSKI: It seems to be pretty great.
Obviously, the BRZ is limited compared to the FRS.
When Toyota made the deal with Subaru, you can only sell--
I think it's one for every five, something like that.
So the Subaru's not doing as well as the Scion Toyota.
MIKE SPINELLI: Were they trying to manage the demand a
little bit?
Because you know what happens is they hype up cars, and then
the dealer starts putting giant markups on it.
Is that anything--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: I assume it's possible, but I think they'd
want to sell as many as they could make, too.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: I think it's the play on Toyota's part
since they financed a lot of the parts with Subaru.
So they're saying, Subaru, you can have your own version of
the car, but you can't sell as many as you can make.
MIKE SPINELLI: For the first year.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: For the first year, yeah.
MIKE SPINELLI: OK.
And Zac, you were saying off camera that--
ZAC MOSELEY: Yeah, yeah.
I mean, the first few months they were out there, even for
six months, we were trying it get a hold of one.
And I would seem them go through the dealer auction
secondhand for full retail price.
MIKE SPINELLI: Really?
ZAC MOSELEY: Yeah.
MIKE SPINELLI: So where--
how was that?
ZAC MOSELEY: I think it was other dealers wanting to get
in on the action that was only available to
the franchise dealers.
If some guy that sold European sports cars wanted to get one
for a customer of his and not have to just go to the
dealership itself, he bought one at the auction for just
about full retail.
MIKE SPINELLI: Wow.
So, generally, I mean, the consensus is that it's a
pretty nice car.
It is a lot like--
we were just talking about the E30 M3.
I mean, in a lot of ways, very similar
handling, very neutral.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Well, first off, look,
it's relatively cheap.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: So if I was a younger kid, I would be all
over that because I also think it's very good looking.
And on the way home, I pass a white one with dark wheels,
most days, and every time, it stops me a little bit because
it's a good looking car.
Aside from rear-wheel performance and all of that, I
think it's a really cool-looking sports car, and
it stands up.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, and it does stand up.
And it's sort of interesting now to see that automakers are
starting to come around, right?
So the first thing that we noticed was--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Right.
MIKE SPINELLI: --last year at the Detroit Auto Show--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Yes.
MIKE SPINELLI: --Chevy did this 130--
Code 130R.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: The Code 130R, yeah.
MIKE SPINELLI: --which was this.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Right.
MIKE SPINELLI: Which is kind of a little funky
in the front but--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: It's kind of E30-esque, though, in a way.
MIKE SPINELLI: But it is E30, yes.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: It's E30/1 series.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: It's like an American 1 Series.
MIKE SPINELLI: It's an American 1M, which is--
MIKE PRICHINELLO: The front looks like that truck that I
don't like, that I don't even remember the model of.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: The Traverse?
MIKE SPINELLI: No, the SSR?
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Yeah, yeah, the SSR.
MIKE SPINELLI: HHR?
The HHR?
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Yeah, I don't know.
It looks like a pickup truck or something
like that in the front.
It's got good wheels, though.
I'm a sucker for gold wheels.
Are those gold, or are those sort of brown?
MIKE SPINELLI: They look brushed.
They're that dull brushed gold, right?
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Yeah.
MIKE SPINELLI: The thing that I like about the whole idea of
this is that 1M and was one of the best cars that anyone put
out a couple of years ago.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Surprisingly so.
MIKE SPINELLI: Surprisingly so.
Fantastic car, very torque-y, but very different than the
E30 M3, but a great handling car and a lot of torque.
The interesting thing about this is-- but the problem with
that car is it was really expensive.
If Chevy can do something like that for--
where even if it's like 85% of the performance for like half
or less than half the price, I think they might
have a market there.
ZAC MOSELEY: Here's the thing with all these cars.
On the other end of the spectrum, they just keep
throwing horsepower at cars, and we're in like this
horsepower thing.
You can't use it.
It's only ever getting to the point where you're just
comparing stats on paper, that you're never actually
going to use this.
The BRZ and the 1M, actually, while that's still a really
powerful car, it's all about just having fun, you know?
The 1M, I took one for a weekend up to his
wedding when they--
for pre-production.
Most fun I've had driving a car.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: My wedding wasn't pre-production.
It was the car.
The car was in pre-production
MIKE SPINELLI: I was going to say!
Was that a pre-production wedding?
MIKE PRICHINELLO: My wife existed.
MIKE SPINELLI: Were you in camouflage or was it a--
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Dazzleship.
My white-and-black tux.
MIKE SPINELLI: That's awesome.
Nice.
ZAC MOSELEY: But yeah, most fun I've had driving on a
four-a-half-hour drive upstate.
It's a long time.
Is just a hot rod purely meant to be enjoyed on the road.
MIKE SPINELLI: So if you combine that construct with
the BRZ and you get this, and actually what we're talking
about is that they are actually talking about
building this, though.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Supposedly.
That's the rumor that we're hearing,
something similar to this.
It's not confirmed.
There's nothing on the table, but I assume that based on
seeing the FRS and the BRZ, and you're getting enthusiast
owners who will then evangelize the brand, I feel
like manufacturers are realizing that, hey, we need
an exciting, fun car that people will be talking about,
and maybe they'll actually just bring other people into
the showroom.
It's like a low-end Halo car.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: I'm really for these cars because I think
that cars aimed--
I think that they're aimed at the younger generation.
I don't think it's really aimed at me necessarily.
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, but that's--
that;s an interesting point because demographics say that
the younger generation, the younger kids, probably--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: My age.
MIKE SPINELLI: even younger than Travis,
don't care about driving.
But traditionally, this kind of car would have been
marketed to like the 18 to 35-year-olds.
But now, you're actually seeing these cars, and the
BRZ, and the car we're going to talk about next marketed to
older people, like sort of empty nesters.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: What I see is, we have a lot
of access to cars.
We're really privileged in that sense.
And it's still a car that we bought because we really do
enjoy driving.
And so, as Zac said, I was driving the car yesterday.
It's 630 horsepower.
I'm not going to use that on the sawmill.
I can't.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, right.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: So to me, these are really interesting.
But I think the price point puts them into that new buyer
who is going to buy their first car.
And I feel like the cars that are made for new drivers, "new
new" drivers are--
in my mind, they're not very fun.
They're very economic and efficient and
environmentally friendly.
And that's all really important, but they have no
fun left in them.
They're like boxes driven by hamsters.
MIKE SPINELLI: But it's interesting.
So the Mustang comes out in 1964.
And yeah, yeah, it's like a big youth culture moment.
And the demographics of that time were huge numbers of 18
to 35 or 18 to 25-year-olds.
So now you've got that same number of people.
So you want to get them, but you
want to get the people who actually--
I mean, if you want to consider that, yeah, there are
plenty of young kids that are into cars, more than I think
that a lot of marketers give credit to, and that's why it's
good to see this entry level stuff be marketed to them.
But also, they're looking at people like us that are
saying, hey, this would be maybe a good third car if
we're established, say.
The minivan, and then the daily thing, and then maybe
we'll have something like this on the side.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Something fun, yeah.
MIKE SPINELLI: Or even it'll be the second car.
Like maybe it's like, well, we've got
a minivan and maybe--
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Something fun, yeah.
MIKE SPINELLI: Maybe we've got something fun, too.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Technically they have four
seats so you can--
MIKE SPINELLI: Right, exactly.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: --chop your kids' legs off and
put them in the back.
They can do it.
It will be fine.
MIKE SPINELLI: This is the other one.
So the BMW 320i.
It comes out.
It's under 30--
I think it starts at about 30.
But With the sport pack, you can be out the door--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: The ZHP.
MIKE SPINELLI: ZHP.
You can be out the door for under 35,000.
Now granted, it's got the same horsepower figure around as
the 25-year-old E30 M3.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: It's got less.
It's got 20 less horsepower.
MIKE SPINELLI: And it's 1,000 pounds heavier, right?
So OK, there's a little bit of an issue.
But it does mean that they see a market there where--
they have outpriced themselves in a lot of ways, right?
So they've gone past 40 into 50.
I mean, you're getting like a 3 Series in the 50's now.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: No shortage of them on the road, though.
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, that's the thing.
I mean, there's a lot of-- but if you want to kind of get
that other crowd, it shows--
to me, it says that they're looking downward.
They're looking down to sort of other buyers who are
looking for sportier stuff.
I don't know.
Am I wrong, Travis?
TRAVIS OKULSKI: I don't think so.
I agree with you on this car.
I think this is a great car.
And I think it's also part of the point that the 1
Series is now old.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Really old.
And this is a lot newer, the F30.
So they have to have something to bridge that gap that'll be
a newer car than the 1 Series, which isn't going to get
replaced for a while in America because they only have
the hatchback in Europe, which we're not getting.
So they need something that's in that price range of a sedan
with a six speed to appeal to those people that isn't a
six-year-old car.
And that's what this is.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Does anybody feel like BMW just makes too
many cars, though?
MIKE SPINELLI: I think that's the problem.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Well, their plan was to keep the prestige
but sell a lot more cars.
So the way that you do that is you keep the numbers of your
M5, or you 540, or whatever model, you keep those numbers
limited, but you make more models and more
iterations of it.
If you go to the BMW website, it's like choose your model.
Across the top, there's like 40 cars up there.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
So the other thing is, everybody's got the 2-liter
turbo now, right?
So I mean, I guess that's always been going on.
But Ford's got the Ecoboost.
GM's got Ecotec.
I don't know if they're coming out with a better version of
that, which is in the ATS.
Not really Ecotec, I guess, anymore.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: I think it's just the DI 2-liter.
It's got--
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
But that could be the motor for a car like the 130 Code R,
whatever that thing is.
ZAC MOSELEY: And that's where the numbers lie because we're
looking at these top-end horsepower numbers and saying,
oh, that's about the same as the E30 M3.
But this can have low -end torque.
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, this is a great motor.
And this has--
the new 2-liter BMW motor is great.
You can chip it.
ZAC MOSELEY: Yeah.
And that low-end torque is what gets the heft of this
thing moving and gives you that kind of hot-rod feel that
makes it a fun car drive.
It's all about manufacturers getting back to cars that are
actually fun and dynamic to drive.
That's where it's going to appeal, to older peer drivers
and younger crowds that don't have the money for the big
engine
MIKE SPINELLI: You just put a cap on it that I could not
have done any better.
That's it.
Hopefully, we're going to see more of those cars.
ZAC MOSELEY: Yeah.
MIKE SPINELLI: AFTER/DRIVE Zac and Mike from
Classic Car Club Manhattan.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: Thanks for having us.
MIKE SPINELLI: No problem.
Travis from "Jalopnik."
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Thank you.
MIKE SPINELLI:www.slashdrive.tv--
that's our new Tumblr page-- @DRIVE on Twitter,
Facebook.com/driveTV.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Drive.jalopnik
MIKE SPINELLI: Drive.jalopnik.com.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Slash internet.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, we're going to put that one up.
We're going to put that one up there, too.
Yeah, "Jalopnik.
We have a "Jalopnik" page.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Yes.
MIKE SPINELLI: Drive.jalopnik.com.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: And we have every DRIVE video on it.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yes.
And we put every DRIVE video up there, even other stuff.
And you guys can put int to the front page of "Jalopnik."
TRAVIS OKULSKI: We do.
Once in awhile.
MIKE SPINELLI: You do.
You often do.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Sometimes.
On occasion.
MIKE PRICHINELLO: There's a lot of URLs and places to
remember, by the way.
MIKE SPINELLI: I know, I know.
We're going to--
if you go to our--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Internet.
MIKE SPINELLI: --internet page, you'll find all our
other internet pages.
Thanks.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: If you go to link.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yes, link.
AFTER/DRIVE.com.
We don't have that one.
See you guys later.
[CAR ENGINE ROARING]
[MUSIC PLAYING]