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>> THE SCIENTISTS WHO CAME TO LOS ALAMOS TO BUILD THE
FIRST ATOMIC BOMB IN WORLD WAR II DID NOT COME ALONE.
MANY BROUGHT THEIR WIVES AND FAMILIES ALONG TO THE SECRET
CITY NICKNAMED THE HILL. AUTHOR TARASHEA NESBIT
EXPLORES THE LIVES OF THESE WOMEN IN HER NEW NOVEL, 'THE
WIVES OF LOS ALAMOS.' HAMPERED BY A LACK OF
INFRASTRUCTURE AND HOUSING, AND LEFT IN THE DARK ABOUT
WHAT THEIR HUSBANDS WERE ACTUALLY DOING, THESE WOMEN
BRING A UNIQUE PERSPECTIVE TO A CRUCIAL PERIOD OF OUR
HISTORY, AS WELL AS VOICES THAT HAVE BEEN LARGELY
ABSENT IN PREVIOUS NARRATIVES.
NMiF PRODUCER MEGAN KAMERICK SAT DOWN WITH
NESBIT FOR A ONE-ON-ONE SEGMENT.
>> TARASHEA NESBIT, THANK YOU FOR COMING ON NEW MEXICO
InFOCUS TO TALK ABOUT YOUR NEW BOOK, 'THE WIVES OF LOS
ALAMOS.' >> THANK YOU.
IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE. >> THIS IS A REALLY
FASCINATING NOVEL, AND I JUST WANTED TO SET THIS UP
FOR A LITTLE BIT. WHO WERE THESE WIVES THAT
YOU CHRONICAL IN THE BOOK? GIVE US A SENSE OF THE RANGE
OF THEIR BACKGROUNDS AND THEIR EXPERIENCES.
>> SURE. THE WIVES OF LOS ALAMOS ARE
THE WOMEN WHOSE HUSBANDS WERE BUILDING THE ATOMIC
BOMB, BUT THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THEIR HUSBANDS WERE
BUILDING, AND THE STORY TAKES PLACE -- IT STARTS IN
1943 WHEN THEIR HUSBANDS COME HOME AND SAY, HOW WOULD
YOU LIKE TO MOVE TO THE SOUTHWEST?
AND THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO BE MOVING
TO, AND OFTENTIMES THEIR HUSBANDS KNOW, BUT ARE NOT
ABLE TO TELL THEIR WIVES THAT INFORMATION.
THEIR AVERAGE AGE WAS 25. THEY WERE COMING FROM ALL
OVER THE WORLD. THEY HAD DOCTORATES,
DOCTORIAL DEGREES IN CHEMISTRY, THEY WERE
STAY-AT-HOME MOMS, THEY WERE DANCERS IN THE CHICAGO
BALLET. SO THERE'S A RANGE OF SOCIAL
WORKERS, A RANGE OF PROFESSIONS THAT THEY WERE.
>> THAT'S WHAT'S SO INTERESTING, IS YOU HAVE
THIS GREAT STORY ABOUT ROBERT OPPENHEIMER SHOWING
UP ON SOMEONE'S DOORSTEP TO INVITE THEIR HUSBAND TO COME
DO THIS PROJECT, AND THEN HE COMES OUT AND SAYS, WE'RE
GOING ON AN ADVENTURE AND MOVING TO THE SOUTHWEST.
THEY HAD TO MOVE THEIR HOUSEHOLDS, THEIR CHILDREN,
OR SOME OF THEM WERE PREGNANT IF THEY DIDN'T HAVE
CHILDREN YET, TO A PLACE WITH ALMOST NO
INFRASTRUCTURE. SO, WHAT WAS THAT LIKE?
>> YEAH, THEY HAD -- THE TOWN, ITSELF, AS WE KNOW IT,
OF COURSE, WASN'T THERE. THERE WAS THE LOS ALAMOS
BOYS SCHOOL, THE RANCH SCHOOL, SO THERE WAS A
COUPLE OF STONE HOMES, AND FULLER LODGE.
BUT OTHER THAN THAT, THE MILITARY WAS COMING IN AND
BUILDING TONS AND TONS OF PREFABRICATED PLACES.
>> SECRETLY. >> SECRETLY.
SO THEY WOULD ARRIVE, THEY WOULD GET OFF OF A TRAIN,
THEY WOULD GO TO A LOCATION IN SANTA FE --
>> 109 PALACE AVENUE. >> THAT'S RIGHT.
THEY WOULD BE MET BY A WOMAN WHO WOULD SAY, WELCOME, AND
HERE IS THE MAP TO GET YOU UP TO LOS ALAMOS.
THEY WOULD FOLLOW THAT. THE ROADS WERE DUSTY OR
MUDDY, DEPENDING ON THE WEATHER, THE TIME OF YEAR
THAT THEY WERE ARRIVING, AND THEY WOULD JUST SEE ALL THIS
WILD CONSTRUCTION AND HOMES THAT ALL LOOKED COMPLETELY
IDENTICAL. AND THERE WOULD BE, IT SEEMS
LIKE, A LOT OF CHAOS. THE HOSPITAL WASN'T BUILT.
THE SCHOOLS WEREN'T BUILT. >> EVEN GETTING WATER WAS
SKETCHY. >> THE WATER WAS SKETCHY.
AND, OF COURSE, IMMEDIATELY THEY GO TO THE HOUSING
OFFICE AND THEY ASK, WHERE AM I GOING TO BE STAYING?
AND THAT WAS A REAL POINT OF INTEREST, BECAUSE IF YOU
WERE IN ONE OF THE ORIGINAL STONE HOMES, YOU HAD A
BATHTUB, AND THAT MEANT YOU HAD -- THAT WAS YOUR SOCIAL
PRIVILEGE, IN A WAY. EVEN THOUGH THERE WASN'T
REALLY ENOUGH WATER, EVER, TO FILL THE BATHTUB.
>> THAT'S WHY THEY CALL IT BATHTUB ROW.
>> THAT'S RIGHT. AND ONE OF THE WOMEN NAMED
IT THAT, DUBBED IT BATHTUB ROW.
>> BECAUSE OTHERWISE YOU JUST TOOK A SHOWER, WHICH
WASN'T REALLY WHAT WOMEN WERE USED TO DOING IN THE
'40S. THEY PREFERRED A BATHTUB.
>> YES, AND THERE WERE A LOT NOTICES ABOUT WATER.
SO WHEN I WAS DOING RESEARCH, I WOULD LOOK AT
THE HISTORICAL SOCIETY, THROUGH THE ARCHIVES, AND I
FOUND THESE DAILY CALENDARS OF THE THINGS THAT THEY
WOULD DO EVERY SINGLE DAY, THE MOVIES THEY WOULD WATCH,
THE KNITTING CIRCLES, ALL THESE THINGS THAT WERE BEING
ANNOUNCED, AND THERE WAS JUST ALWAYS ANNOUNCEMENTS
ABOUT WATER SHORTAGES. AND THEY WERE INSTRUCTED TO
TAKE GOOD CITIZEN SHOWERS, WHERE THEY WOULD SCRUB UP --
YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING HAD SORT OF A MILITARY NAME TO
IT AND A SENSE OF, IT'S FOR THE WAR EFFORT.
SO THEY WOULD SCRUB UP, THEY WOULD START TO TURN ON THE
WATER, NOTHING WOULD COME OUT, AND SOME OF THE WOMEN
WERE LIKE, I'M NEVER DOING THAT AGAIN.
>> YOU TAKE A UNIQUE APPROACH TO THE NARRATIVE.
IT'S TOLD THROUGH A COLLECTIVE VOICE RATHER THAN
THROUGH INDIVIDUAL CHARACTERS.
WHY DID YOU WANT TO DO IT THAT WAY?
>> YEAH, AND I'M SO GLAD YOU ASKED THAT.
IT'S A FIRST PERSON PLURAL POINT OF VIEW.
SO THERE'S THE SENSE OF A WE; IT WAS LIKE THIS FOR US.
AND I CHOSE THAT POINT OF VIEW BECAUSE WHEN I WAS
DOING THE RESEARCH, I FOUND THAT THE WOMEN IN INTERVIEWS
WOULD BE ASKED, WHAT WAS IT LIKE LIVING IN LOS ALAMOS,
AND THEY WOULD QUICKLY ANSWER WITH A COLLECTIVE
RESPONSE. WE ALL HAD THESE STOVES
NAMED BLACK BEAUTY THAT WERE REALLY TEMPERAMENTAL.
THE 'WE' WAS DEFINITELY THE WIVES, THE OTHER WOMEN THAT
THEY WERE BONDING WITH DURING THAT TIME.
SO I CHOSE THE POINT OF VIEW PRIMARILY TO SHOW THAT SENSE
OF COLLECTIVE IDENTITY WHICH SEEMED NATURAL TO THE WAY
THAT THEY WERE TELLING THEIR OWN STORIES, AND THEN ALSO
TO SHOW THE DIFFERENTIATION THAT HAPPENS.
PARTICULARLY WHEN THE BOMBS ARE USED, YOU CAN START TO
SEE THE FACTIONS THAT COME OUT WITHIN THE GROUP.
SO I'M HOPING THAT THAT SHOWS A TENSION THAT ALWAYS
EXISTS FOR US BETWEEN OUR INDIVIDUAL SELVES AND OUR
GROUP SELVES. >> YOU KNOW, THE COMMUNITY'S
SECRET IS BEHIND A GATE, AND IT DOESN'T EXIST AS FAR AS
THE REST OF THE WORLD KNOWS. ALMOST NO CONTACT WITH THE
OUTSIDE WORLD. THEY COULDN'T EVEN TELL
THEIR FAMILIES WHERE THEY WERE GOING.
HOW DID THAT IMPACT THE DAY-TO-DAY LIVES ON TOP OF
ALL THESE OTHER DAILY STRUGGLES JUST TO MAINTAIN A
HOUSEHOLD? >> YEAH, I IMAGINE, YOU
KNOW, YOU CAN'T -- YOU WRITE LETTERS HOME TO YOUR
PARENTS, BUT YOU CAN'T TELL THEM WHERE YOU ARE.
YOU DON'T HAVE YOUR SOCIAL NETWORK, YOUR FRIENDS THAT
YOU HAD BACK IN SAN FRANCISCO OR BACK IN OMAHA.
SO THERE WAS A LOT OF RELIANCE THAT THEN TURNS TO
THE FRIENDSHIPS THAT YOU ARE MAKING IN THIS NEW PLACE.
ALSO, A LOT OF STRESS. AND THE HUSBANDS COULDN'T
TELL THEIR WIVES WHAT THEY WERE BUILDING, SO I DO
WONDER ABOUT THE WAY THAT YOUR EMOTIONAL LIFE CHANGES
WITH YOUR PARTNER WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE -- WHEN YOU CAN'T
SHARE THIS MAJOR SECRET. >> I GET A SENSE OF THAT,
THAT THEY JUST CAN'T TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS, AND YOU
GIVE GLIMMERS OF LIKE HOW THAT PERMANENTLY ALTERS SOME
MARRIAGES, BECAUSE JUST FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS YOU JUST
CAN'T TALK ABOUT CERTAIN THINGS.
>> YEAH, AND HOW THAT CHANGES YOUR RELATIONSHIP IF
YOU HAVE THREE YEARS OF NOT REALLY BEING ABLE TO TALK
ABOUT ANYTHING. >> IT WAS ONE OF THE
GREATEST GATHERINGS OF INTELLECTUAL MINDS OF THAT
GENERATION IN THIS PLACE, BUT A LOT OF THESE WIVES
COULDN'T REALLY PARTICIPATE IN THAT, NECESSARILY, EVEN
THOUGH THEY WERE ALSO ACCOMPLISHED.
>> YEAH, THAT'S TRUE. YOU KNOW, SOME WIVES, WHEN
THEY ARRIVED, A LOT OF THEM WERE ASKED TO WORK IN THE
LAB, BUT NOT IN LARGE SCIENCE CAPACITIES, BUT AS
SECRETARIES. FOR INSTANCE, THERE IS A
WOMAN WHO HAS A DEGREE, A DOCTORIAL DEGREE IN
CHEMISTRY, AND WAS ASKED TO TAKE A TYPING TEST.
SO YOU HAVE THIS, YOU CANNOT PARTICIPATE, AND I THINK
THAT THAT ALSO CREATED A LITTLE BIT OF TENSION
BETWEEN THE WOMEN SCIENTISTS, BECAUSE THERE
WERE WOMEN SCIENTISTS THERE. A FEW OF THEM.
AND THEY WERE ABLE TO BE WORKING IN THE LAB WITH
THEIR HUSBANDS, THEY WERE TAKING WALKS WITH THEIR
HUSBANDS, THEY HAD THIS BONDING TIME THAT THE WIVES
DIDN'T HAVE BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T IN ON THAT.
>> THERE HAVE BEEN MANY BOOKS ON LOS ALAMOS, AND A
NUMBER OF MEMOIRS, INCLUDING SOME BY WIVES WHO WENT WITH
THEIR HUSBANDS TO THE SECRET CITY.
WHY DID YOU WANT TO DO A NOVEL LIKE THIS?
WHY BRING OUT THESE VOICES? WHY ARE THEY IMPORTANT TO
HEAR? >> THESE WOMEN HELPED MAKE
THE BOMB. THESE WOMEN WERE VERY MUCH A
PART OF OUR AMERICAN STORY, OUR WORLD STORY OF THE
CREATION OF THE ATOMIC BOMB. BUT THEIR VOICES AREN'T
HEARD, AND THE WAY THAT THEY CONTRIBUTED ISN'T OFTEN
THOUGHT ABOUT. BUT THEY WERE MAKING THIS
COMMUNITY, THEY WERE SUPPORTING THEIR HUSBANDS,
THEY WERE WORKING IN THE LAB, AND I WANTED TO GIVE
VOICE TO WHAT HAD PREVIOUSLY BEEN VOICELESS.
BUT I DON'T THINK SHOULD BE. >> DO YOU HAVE A SENSE OF
THE LONG-TERM IMPACT THAT THIS EXPERIENCE HAD ON THEIR
LIVES? >> YEAH, IT'S BEEN
DESCRIBED -- SOME OF THE WOMEN DESCRIBED IT LIKE A
SUMMER CAMP FOR ADULTS. AND SO IT WAS THIS WILD
TIME. THEY'RE IN THEIR LIGHT 20s
AND THEY'RE ON THIS ADVENTURE, BUT THAT
ADVENTURE IS KIND OF HALTED BY THE USE OF THE ATOMIC
BOMB. AND THE WAY THAT THE WOMEN
REACTED TO THAT ARE VERY MUCH VARIED.
SOME WOMEN STAYED WITH THEIR HUSBANDS AND LIVED THEIR
LIVES OUT IN LOS ALAMOS. SOME WOMEN WENT BACK TO SAN
FRANCISCO AND FELT A LOT OF REMORSE AND GRIEF RELATED TO
WHAT THEY WERE ACCOMPLICES IN.
SO IT WAS DEFINITELY A RANGE, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE IT
WAS SUCH AN IMPORTANT STORY IN ALL OF THESE WOMEN'S
LIVES. >> WELL, TARASHEA, THANK YOU
SO MUCH FOR COMING TO TALK WITH US ABOUT THIS.
AND IF YOU'LL STICK AROUND A LITTLE BIT, WE'LL DO SOME
MORE ON THE WEB. >> GREAT. THANK YOU SO
MUCH. IT'S MY PLEASURE.