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TOM: Coming up, the best opening lines in sci-fi and
fantasy do not include this one.
But we'll discuss them.
VERONICA: And we rap up "Downbelow Station," by C.J.
Cherryh, on the season finale of "Sword & Laser Video."
[MUSIC PLAYING]
VERONICA: Hey, everyone.
Welcome to the final Sword & Laser book club
episode of the season.
I'm Veronica Belmont.
TOM: And I'm Tom Merritt.
Thank you for joining us on the video show for amazing
stories and incredible tales.
VERONICA: Yes, we may be taking a break from video.
But the book club lives on.
We are going to wrap up "Downbelow Station," and let
you know what our April book pick will be.
TOM: And we're going tip you off to lots of other great
books, of course.
Let's start off by checking out what books are coming out
soon on the calendar.
Shall we ping pong it?
VERONICA: Yes, let's.
First of many on April 2nd, "Life After
Life," by Kate Atkinson.
What if you could live again and again
until you got it right?
TOM: "Prophet of Bones," by Ted Kosmatka.
In a world where science has proven the planet is only
5,800 years old, Paul Carlson finds evidence to the
contrary, and is hunted down to shut him up.
VERONICA: Uh oh. "Without a Summer," by
Mary Robinette Kowal.
Jane and Vincent Ellsworth, master
glamorists, return home.
But, in a world where magic is real, nothing--
even the domestic sphere--
is quite what it seems.
TOM: Never is.
"Odds Against Tomorrow," by Nathaniel Rich.
Mitchell Zukor, a gifted young mathematician, is hired by a
mysterious new financial consulting firm, Future World,
to calculate worst case scenarios to indemnify
corporations against any future disasters.
VERONICA: "River of Stars," by Guy Gavriel Kay, revisits the
world of "Under Heaven" with an epic of prideful emperors,
battling courtiers, bandits, and a woman
battling in her own way.
TOM: Hmm.
What way's that?
"The Forever Knight," a novel of the Bronze
Knight, by John Marco.
Lukien is given a chance for redemption after his betrayal
by becoming the protector of the inhumans.
VERONICA: "The Exiled Blade," by John Courtney Grimwood,
book three of the Assassini, sees the climactic finale of
Tycho's story of intrigue in Venice.
TOM: And "Protector," Foreigner
number 14, by C.J. Cherryh.
Cajeiri has been promised for his birthday that the young
human children can come down from the space station for a
two-week stay.
VERONICA: Moving on to April 9th, "Blood of Dragons," by
Robin Hobb.
The final volume of the Rain Wilds series completes the
story of the dragons, their keepers, and their quest to
find the lost city of Kelsingra.
TOM: April 16th brings us "London
Falling," by Paul Cornell.
Four police officers investigate a mob death and
accidentally end up finding a strange artifact that gives
them the sight and the ability to see the true
evil haunting London.
VERONICA: And finally, also on the 16th, "Promise of Blood,"
the Powder Mage Trilogy, by Brian McClellan.
Field Marshal Tamas relies heavily on his remaining
powder mages after the coup.
TOM: Well, we have lots of thoughts from our Goodreads
forum to get to, including some video
commentary and email.
So let's start talking about this month's book.
[ALARM NOISE]
VERONICA: Yes, so this was an interesting one for me.
This was of course a laser pick.
We are talking about "Downbelow
Station," by C.J. Cherryh.
TOM: Cherryh.
VERONICA: Cherryh.
I want to say sherry, like the drink.
But it's cherry, like the fruit.
So what did you think of it?
TOM: I really ended up loving it.
And I wasn't sure at first.
I was suckered in, as I mentioned on the audio
podcast, by the opening.
I thought Lukas was kind of the sympathetic character, and
that Konstantins were the oppressors.
And of course you immediately have that flipped on its back.
And it took a while to really get a feel for who the
characters were and where they were going.
But after the first third, I had it all down.
I did have refer to the wiki a couple times to make sure that
I knew what was going on.
But it was easier to get by, and I really loved the story.
VERONICA: In some ways I almost felt like the
Konstantins were too good.
TOM: In the end it almost felt that way, right?
They needed a few more flaws, maybe.
I especially loved the Hisa.
That's an alien.
I know a lot of people had issues with them.
Especially--
where are the scientists?
Right?
Why can the Hisa speak English, but we couldn't speak
their language?
Is there nobody studying Hisa culture?
VERONICA: I found that interesting as well.
It seems as though they referred a lot to the fact
that when they discovered that there was an alien life form
on the planet, on Pell, people freaked out on Earth.
Whenever they would discover new alien life, people on
Earth would freak out.
Then they're like, OK, well, they're mostly harmless.
The way they treated the Hisa, I found very interesting
compared to other kinds of alien civilization stories
that we've read in the past.
They weren't quite slaves.
They still had their own areas of their civilizations that
were untouched by humankind, whatsoever.
So they helped the humans because they wanted to.
I didn't really get the sense that they were being
oppressed, or that the Hisa didn't feel like they were
being oppressed.
TOM: And they certainly were being taken advantage of.
But it was almost as if the Hisa didn't care.
And they would just kind of leave if they didn't like it.
And no one would go after them.
I think a lot of people found that unbelievable.
They're like, no-- the story is the humans go and hunt down
the Hisa and enslave them.
But C.J. Cherryh is telling a different story of occupation.
This is a story where Downbelow Station is just
meant as a waypoint into further occupation.
It's meant as a venue for trade.
And so maybe that explains why there's no scientists, there's
nobody exploring the Hisa, and there's no
exploitation of the Hisas.
There's no benefit to it.
They've got other fish to fry.
VERONICA: Yeah.
I found some of the characters pretty--
like you mentioned about Jon Lukas.
I felt different ways about different characters, which I
think is important in this kind of story.
TOM: How'd you feel about Mallory?
VERONICA: That was who I was exactly going
to touch upon first.
She's an interesting character.
I'm overusing the word interesting.
But she really made me think a lot, because she
comes onto the scene.
And you're like, OK, this is going
to be our main character.
TOM: Right.
VERONICA: I thought she was going to be the
main part of the story.
It seems like she's kind of ***, which is fine.
She's a captain.
She runs her own ship.
She kind of has to stay on top of things and work hard to
make people to respect her.
I mean, you don't always have to act like a *** to get
people to respect you.
But I guess when you're a space captain--
TOM: You are proof of that.
VERONICA: Yeah.
But at the same time, there's definitely kind of the sense
that she was abusing Talley in a lot of ways.
TOM: Oh, yeah.
VERONICA: I mean, of course, he tries to kill her.
TOM: I think there's a lot of that, turning stereotypes on
its head, here.
It's not the male captain being all chauvinist with a
female underling, a la Shatner in Star Trek.
Right?
This is Mallory taking advantage of Josh Talley,
who's a vulnerable, kind of messed up guy.
VERONICA: And you kind of get to the point towards the end
where you're like, OK, Mallory--
all she cares about is her ship.
At the end of the day she doesn't really--
TOM: (LIKE SHATNER) My ship.
VERONICA: She thinks she has allegiances to the
company, to the fleet.
And then she's like, well, you know what?
At the end of the day, no.
All I really want is the freedom to do what I want with
my ship and my crew.
And I want them to take my orders and not have to go
under all these other rules and regulations that people
are trying to put on them.
TOM: That's really interesting.
I hadn't thought about it that way.
But she's like, yeah, I have allegiance to the company,
until it's no longer convenient.
She's like, no, I really have allegiance to Mazian.
VERONICA: To Mazian.
TOM: Until it's no longer convenient.
She's like, well, honestly, I really have allegiance to me.
That's who I have always had allegiance to.
VERONICA: And she kind of admits it.
She's like, I'm a very prideful person.
That's kind of what runs my life--
my pride, my ability for my crew to want to follow me.
And she loves it when they cheer.
TOM: Adam says, "I really love the betrayal by Mallory--
completely selfish, and completely unexpected."
VERONICA: Yeah.
It was kind of awesome, where she's like, you know what?
Fine.
I'll work with the union if that's what it
takes to stop Mazian.
TOM: And apparently a few people said, if you're
interested in Josh Talley and his complex
psychological layering--
that was the hardest one to keep track of.
It's like, now, who is he really?
Because we don't really know.
And we don't really find out until the end that he isn't
even who he thought he was.
"Forty Thousand in Gehenna" and "Cyteen" are books where
you learn a lot more about the union clones and about
adjustment.
So if people are confused by that, apparently it gets a lot
more attention in later books.
VERONICA: I really got the sense that when you were
adjusted you forgot everything.
But it seems to not be not all that permanent.
TOM: No.
It reminded me--
did you ever read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle
Maintenance,"--
VERONICA: No.
TOM: --by Robert Pirsig?
It's a story about a guy who gets electroshock therapy.
And at first he has wide swaths of his memory that he
can't access.
And it kind of trickles back slowly.
And Talley's story seemed to be very similar.
VERONICA: Interesting.
Well, yeah, I didn't like the book that much at first.
It took me a while to warm up to it.
And by the end, I was really interested in how all the
different characters were playing together, all the
interplay between the different groups and
organizations.
TOM: Ruth was one of the people who's like,
whose story is this?
And it got a lot of comparisons in that thread to
Song of Ice and Fire, because there's multiple perspectives.
VERONICA: Well to me, it feels like the Konstantin story.
TOM: But it's also Talley's story.
And it's also Mazian's story.
VERONICA: It's not Mazian's story.
TOM: Josh Talley's story.
VERONICA: It's Talley's story.
TOM: It's Mallory's story.
VERONICA: And sometimes it's Lukas's story.
TOM: And it's the Hisa's story.
VERONICA: Oh, it was definitely the Hisa's story.
TOM: They're dreaming the whole thing.
Love you.
VERONICA: Love you.
TOM: Should we cast this?
Sean started a thread called "Let's cast this." He says
Edward James Olmos as Angelo Konstantin.
But I noticed, he also says Tamoh Penikett as Emilio
Konstantin, Richard Hatch as Jon Lukas.
There's a little "Battlestar Galactica" theme--
VERONICA: Theme going on here?
Yeah, Tamoh--
he can be cast as anything, ever, in my book.
He can be all the characters.
I'm OK with that.
TOM: Did you have any casting ideas?
I like Sigourney Weaver as Mallory.
VERONICA: Ooh, that's a good one.
Yeah.
Oh, gosh.
TOM: Tad suggested that one.
VERONICA: I think I was kind of imagining
her as Captain Janeway.
TOM: Oh, Kate Mulgrew.
Yeah.
You know what?
I probably was putting a lot of Captain Janeway in there
without even thinking about it.
VERONICA: The faces I was getting--
TOM: Kind of like a selfish Captain Janeway.
VERONICA: Yeah.
Like a terrible person Captain Janeway.
Basically, just the worst kind of person.
TOM: Well, folks can get it on the self-casting at the
Goodreads thread if they want to.
Any last thoughts before we wrap up "Downbelow Station?"
VERONICA: No.
I definitely want to know what happens with Emilio and all
the Hisa down on Downbelow.
So I can see myself continuing to read the series, just to
see what happens.
TOM: It was I was a fun read, definitely.
Spoiler alert over.
[STATIC NOISE]
TOM: Well, that almost wraps it up for us.
If you want to get a jump on the April book
choice, start reading--
VERONICA: Oh.
We are going to read "The Dragonriders of
Pern," by Anne McCaffrey.
TOM: And we'll kick that off next week
on our audio podcast.
VERONICA: Yes.
But let's jump into the Goodreads, and see what people
are talking about.
And let's start with Mr. Noah, who writes, "Considering
paperbacks seem to average about $7.99 on Amazon, how
much would your entire Goodreads
library cost to buy today?
Obviously public domain, libraries, and secondhand
bookstores cut down on this price, while hardbacks and
other editions would raise it.
But I can't think of a more scientific
way to approach this.
As for me, I have 1,442--
TOM: What?
VERONICA: --novels that I can remember reading."
TOM: I can't remember reading that many.
That's crazy.
VERONICA: "If I were to buy them using the guidelines
above, I'd be out $11,521.58.
Is it sad that I actually thought this
number would be higher?
Thank goodness for those libraries and secondhand
bookstores."
TOM: You know, when I first started up on Goodreads, I put
as many books as I could remember in there.
I've only got like 480 some in there now.
VERONICA: I don't even have that many.
I think I've got under 300.
TOM: Yeah.
Mine counted up to $3,867.
VERONICA: I was $2,021.47.
TOM: Nice.
Right down to the penny.
VERONICA: On those standards, yeah.
TOM: Trike posted that he was inspired by Trudi Canavan's
appearance to pick up her book, "The Magician's Guild."
And says, "I'll have to read these simply because of the
awesomeness of the first line." Here's the first line.
"It is said in Imardin that the wind has a soul.
And it wails through the narrow city streets because it
is grieved by what it finds there." Trike wrote,
"Evocative, intriguing, windy."
VERONICA: Windy!
TOM: He goes on to list a few more great opening lines.
And it started a great thread.
Orwell's "1984," "It was a bright, cold day in April, and
the clocks were striking 13."
VERONICA: "The Forever War," by Joe Haldeman.
"Tonight we're going to show you eight silent ways to kill
a man."
TOM: Neal-- throughout "The Exploding Detective," "I
suppose the first thing I should do is apologize for the
billions of dead."
VERONICA: And Rob tossed out the classic, "The Gunslinger,"
"The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger
followed."
TOM: That's what sucked me into that series.
VERONICA: Is it?
TOM: Yeah, I totally fell for that line.
VERONICA: You are a huge fan of that series.
Mitch is looking for some great imaginative fantasy.
He writes, "Something like 'Adventures in Wonderland,' or
'The Wizard of Oz,' although it certainly doesn't have to
be young reader.
I want something with color, rather than the typical
medieval sword-and-sorcery setting." Phil recommends "The
Last Unicorn," by Peter Beagle, which is a classic, a
favorite of many people out there.
TOM: It seems like you do have to go a little older, although
Sandy recommends "Mechanique, A Tale of the Circus
Tresaulti," by Genevieve Valentine.
VERONICA: And David mentioned Piers Anthony's Xanth series.
"The land of Xanth is full of nothing but puns.
And one wonders how Piers Anthony came up with some of
those ideas." Tom, that sounds like, basically--
TOM: I don't know if I would like that.
VERONICA: No, you wouldn't be into that?
TOM: Lots of puns?
Be like spending a book with myself.
VERONICA: The joke is that he loves puns.
TOM: That's the joke, see?
So thanks for getting that joke.
VERONICA: I wish we could have come up with a pun to really
drive that joke home.
TOM: Right.
Instead we killed it.
But hey, huge thanks to everybody who submitted
stories and consideration for the "Sword and Laser
Anthology." Submissions are open until May 15.
And you can find all the rules and details at
swordandlaser.com.
We've got some great stuff.
VERONICA: We have had hundreds of submissions already.
So you guys are doing awesome.
Thank you so much.
I can't wait to really dig in and start reading.
And we will have more time to do that.
As you probably know, if you've been following us, this
is the last episode of our video show run.
Huge thanks to Geek and Sundry for the
awesome support and love.
Please keep watching.
There are amazing things coming out on this channel.
Unending thanks to Pixel Corps for providing all the
production and post-production services.
And unbelievable thanks to Fonco for building us this
beautiful set and bringing Lem the dragon
into all of our lives.
TOM: Yes.
VERONICA: We love Lem.
TOM: We do love Lem.
But don't be sad.
If you want more Sword and Laser, there's lots.
There's the Goodreads forum at goodreads.com.
You can talk with us all the time.
Subscribe to the audio podcast--
it comes out at least twice a month--
as well as find out all the things that we're up to at
swordandlaser.com.
And of course, get all the awesome new Geek and Sundry
shows by subscribing to their YouTube channel right here,
youtube.com slash geekandsundry.
VERONICA: All right, well, so long, and thanks for all the
fish, folks.
TOM: Yep.
It's time for a last Whiteboard, the perfect way to
end the show.
We'll see you later on the internets.
NARRATOR: So this is the end of Sword and
Laser's video season.
Thank you.
Thanks to Geek and Sundry for hosting a channel for all our
nerdy interests.
Thanks to Tom and Veronica for opening up
the show to the community.
Thanks to every viewer and commentator who flew their
geek flags high.
I can't help but feel a little unfinished.
I mean, I had a Whiteboard planned for why everyone reads
the wrong Doug Adams novels.
There's a discussion about the polarizing figures, like
Heinlein and Lovecraft.
And how do you decide which steampunk anthology's best
when they're all named exactly the same thing?
I have so much more to say.
Well, maybe the Goodreads forums are right.
Maybe there's only one thing which really says it all.
So here's Veronica in a Princess Leia outfit.
And because we're equal people, here's Tom in a
Princess Leia outfit.
Huh.
I wonder if we could fit Lem the dragon into a
Princess Leia out--
[BREATHING FIRE]
[MUSIC PLAYING]