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Omedyashar here. This is my reply to "violentlygraceful"'s
video response to the video I uploaded titled "The Dangers of Ex-Gay Therapy."
If you haven't yet seen that video, I highly recommend you get a taste for what is under
discussion here, as it largely concerns equal rights.
While western governments assure rights and privileges to individuals who openly exhibit
and live a life centered around expression of their *** attractions towards their
own gender, less and less respect, and more and more disrespect,
and even aspirations to make illegal the rights of individuals such as myself to seek to live
a life with a wife and children - of myself and my wife, are being fought against in the
name of gay activism, when that is just totally irrational and totally unjustified.
Included in this are attempts to make illegal what are known belittlingly as "ex-gay therapies,"
to assist individuals who THEMSELVES want to learn how to deal with and manage their
attractions to their own gender and develop attractions to the opposite sex, so that they
can live their life the way they want.
That was the main topic of the video I uploaded.
Here is violentlygraceful's response:
"Regardless of one's personal desire or determination,
changing one's *** orientation may not be possible.
It is not simply a switch that can be turned on or off,
or something which can be eliminated through personal discipline."
Violentlygraceful is 100% on target when he says that the matter of *** orientation
is not something that can be turned on or off like a light-switch.
That is something that I didn't claim in the video,
and that is something that none of these "Ex-gay" therapies that I make mention of,
which are mainstream standard among them, none of them make that claim.
To the contrary, they're very clear that it is not something that can simply be turned
on or off.
It is also not something that simply striving to control oneself, a matter of self-discipline,
will make disappear.
I know this from experience and I know many other people, and research has shown, that
simply controlling your behavior, while you CAN control your behavior, simply doing so
will not make the feelings go away in and of itself.
Again, I did not make that claim. That is violentlygraceful's reiteration of the claims
of terribly ignorant people, but placing it on me and the therapies that I support so
as to smear our names, and our claims.
But, you know, the truth does win out, and not bias propaganda.
It is true that many people may make attempts to change their *** orientation without
having success. That could be due to several reasons.
One, because perhaps their trying to do it in the manner that you are describing here
and not in the manner that the organizations that I'm referring to recommend, and that
is not an overly-simplified method.
Also, your entire video doesn't really go into the depths of what their methods consist
of, so for that, for all you honest individuals who seek truth, I encourage you to look into
the websites that I will provide links to underneath this video.
Even if it were that there were no positive results from these therapies - totally not
true, Dr. Robert Spitzer's research has proven that, and I myself prove it.
Even if they had no positive outcomes, this would not change the point of the video that
I uploaded, that our rights should be respected; Just as individuals throughout the world who
have all kinds of, even if you don't want to call them disabilities, even if they truly
aren't disabilities, but they are things about their physical life or their ways of thinking
that they themselves want to change, researchers have sought to give them the desires of their
heart, to give them fulfillment to live the way that they want, even if it's not a mental
illness. That is all that I'm asking for. That is all
that we deserve. If it doesn't exist, so seek the development of it! But of course, neither
do these gay activists want to admit that such therapies DO exist with success, but
they also don't want to even seek the possibility of developing such therapies.
There are many therapies for all kinds of matters for which there is very low success
rate, and yet even you yourself, I do believe, would not go about discouraging people who
seek to succeed in those therapies from pursuing their dreams.
One very easy example is to stop smoking. You know, a person has a right to smoke, and
it's not a mental illness. It does have potential health risks. Perhaps
if you smoke very seldom, and in a very self-controled manner, you might not necessarily shorten
your life to any significant degree. But how many people do that? Same thing with
those who live in gay culture.
And despite that it is so difficult to overcome, and people spend much money to do so... I
don't see you bashing people who make such attempts, because that is their desire. Same
thing with people who want to loose weight. You know, there is a healthy medium weight,
and yet popular culture demands that women, and even men, seek a figure that is far beyond
what is to reasonably be expected of them, and even what is beyond what is healthy.
And yet despite the fact that people more times than not, do not succeed in reaching
their goals, their not discouraged, and they shouldn't be discouraged for aiming for their
dreams.
Of course, they should be informed! Just as I want to do with this matter.
Let's continue:
"You don't want to go there! Vincent Sevantis and Petterson Teschono, both of whom underwent
gay exorcisms, to try to get rid of what they perceived to be a demon which was causing
them to be gay, and becoming suicidal as a result of these unsuccessful exorcisms.
So please! Don't try to suggest that there aren't negative emotional repercussions involved
with attempting to change this and not being able to do so."
You know, there can be negative consequences for people who are surrounded by uncompassionate
peers when they don't succeed in reaching their goals.
There are people who have committed suicide for all sorts of reasons and for things that
you don't fight against. Why don't you try to discourage those people from reaching their
goals as well?
You know, there are people who have committed suicide, or have contemplated committing suicide,
because of the way their gay support group or their gay community responded when they
expressed desire to even look into these kinds of therapies that we're talking about here.
When they felt the rejection and absolute lack of consideration and respect for them
from their gay community, they kill themselves.
I know an example of this 2nd hand, a friend of mine who knew first hand, and I also know
from myself. When I discussed these matters with some secular psychologists who after
expressing absolute disrespect and even belittling those principles and values that I hold most
dear to myself, and my intellectual first hand knowledge of my own past experience - that
I was from the beginning exclusively attracted to females and that it changed, after totally
destroying all of my credibility as though I'm just a liar and trying to force me into
a lifestyle that I don't want, I also felt suicidal.
Are you going to suggest perhaps then that all pro-gay therapists should be banned?
And how much research has gone into looking into how many instances as these that there
have been? But the question of exorcisms and preposterous
methods of giving therapy for people with unwanted same sex attractions, how is that
a response to the video I uploaded? I was talking about people coming to ME to
see how I feel and the many people I know who felt positive results from the Journey
Into Manhood weekend, and you're bringing me examples, "don't even
go there," of people talking about getting therapy through exorcisms?! That's not anything
that is supported or in any way promoted by JiM (Journey Into Manhood), or Jonah, or even,
I'm not Christian, but it's not even promoted by the largest evangelical Christian therapy
provided for people with unwanted same sex attractions - Exodus Intl.
None of them encourage or support such practices, so what are you doing... "truth wins out"
you know, what are you doing trying to bring claims against what WE are talking about by
using methods that were used by people who we ourselves reject?
I don't think that's realistic or rational. THAT is the "myth" that is being created here.
And even if that were the only type of method available, again I want to reiterate - so
if you have a problem with the methods that are used, that we do use, ENCOURAGE researchers
to look into more safe ways of dealing with individuals who want to develop attractions
to the opposite sex and overcome same sex attractions.
How about encouraging researches to look into that instead of just throwing it all out as
though there is no other option. You only take such a view when it comes to
something that you don't like. Doesn't sound very "pro-Diversity."
"So people can judge for themselves the actions being taken by the directors of these programs..."
Yeah, you can judge for yourselves the actions taken by the directors of these programs - programs
that I'm not talking about or supporting and which are not mainstream AT ALL among those
who deal with individuals who have unwanted same sex attractions.
"...There's something which the camp members undergo called 'touch therapy.' How appropriate
this kind of thing would be for people who are struggling with homosexual feelings. 'Healing
touch techniques recreate a loving father-son bond that are completely non-***.' Well,
that's what they tell us."
"Well that's what they tell us" - What? DO you think you're a mind reader? Do you think
you have x-ray vision to look into the pants of these people? You're inspiring individuals
to have baseless hatred and suspicion for individuals that you don't even know.
It's disgusting. And you're complaining about your supposed, totally made up supposition
that perhaps it's *** or with *** intent, this type of 'healing touch therapy,' you
suppose it and belittle it, yet what are you encouraging and promoting?! Something far
beyond a hug, to say the least! That's your method of therapy! So I don't
think you have any place to put down this kind of therapy even if there may be individuals...
you can not make decisions based purely on guess work - doesn't sound very "scientific."
...but you can not put down therapies based on your absolute total supposition.
By the way, human touch therapy is not a therapy that is focused on - neither in JiM nor is
it focused on in the Jonah organization, and it is even prohibited by those who affiliate
with Exodus International, the largest Christian group provided for people with unwanted same
sex attractions.
When I say that it's not focused on in JiM, the Journey Into Manhood weekend, what I mean
is that this is not the center of our attention and it is by far not the exclusive form of
therapy that they incorporate. And they make it very clear that all those
who do not want to participate in this are free to abstain and there are those who abstain,
myself included.
Insinuating any form of sexuality in the practice is just absurd and extremely disrespectful.
On their website you'll see descriptions of how they hold each other, and it is in no
way ***.
They provide ways that would be *** and say that this is totally unacceptable.
If you think that there may not be ANY connection between individuals who never felt physical
affection from members of their same gender all their childhood, if you don't think that
could POSSIBLY in any way affect an individual's perspective towards his own gender or the
opposite gender, I think you're extremely close-minded.
I know, for one, that I got nearly no physical affection from males my entire childhood - near
to none. And I know how that affected me and I remember being conscious of it growing up
and longing for simply hugs! That's what it all started out for with me - just a hug.
And I can tell you first hand that although I personally don't enjoy the healthy touch
therapy in the context of a group meeting or the like, I did incorporate it with my
friends who I openly confided in regarding my feelings and experiences and told them
that it could be very beneficial to me if they hug me whenever feels comfortable to
them, and that they would be applicative of these issues that I have - and they did so!
And I can not tell you how much it made me feel one and accepted as an equal among men.
That is something that is a whole different video - equality, how you perceive yourself
as equal and alike, just like all other men, and how that is related to same-sex attractions.
But your whole presumption that this type of therapy is simply baseless, as an attack,
it itself baseless. I don't see you bringing any scientific research evidence against it.
I don't know that there is research done to prove that it has substantial benefits, but
I can tell you, as I already have, that I see the benefits myself as one among many
different methods of therapy... certainly not to be done in the wrong context and certainly
not to be considered an exclusive cure or "pill" for dealing with the matter.
Continuing:
"It seems clear to me that efforts like this are attempting to create some kind of myth
of a childhood trauma..."
My childhood trauma is not a myth. I was not physically abused, but the fact I had essentially
no friends whatsoever growing up until the age of 18, and if we're talking about friends
of the same gender, not even near to none, but none, that's not a myth. And the fact
that numerous people that I've discussed this with who have unwanted same sex attractions
report similar things regarding their childhood.
Of course there are exceptions and of course there are different types of experiences and
ways that same sex attractions may develop, but to say that one's childhood experiences
has no affect on their sexuality, whether it's homosexuality or heterosexuality or the
type of women that you like or the type of men that you like, to deny that one's childhood
has some sort of an affect on your attractions towards other people I think is itself absurd.
"...being the cause for the development of these feelings."
We don't say that one's childhood traumas are the sole cause for homosexual feelings.
The matter is extremely complex. What you're doing in this video is exceedingly simplifying
our view of the matter, which is itself a distortion, a misrepresentation, of what our
view is.
"It's creating a bogey-man that once destroyed is somehow going to some how allow you to
move on. Treating this as some kind of psychological baggage which can simply be cast away. I think
that is fairly preposterous."
What I think is preposterous is simply turning a blind-eye to what hundreds upon hundreds
of people, myself included, say regarding how these therapies have helped us - tremendously.
Overcoming one's bad self-image and distorted ways of relating to other people, how you
perceive the way that other people perceive you, overcoming your own personal misconceptions
about the opposite sex and your own gender... to deny that overcoming misconceptions can
help one's self-imagine and perhaps affect their sexuality and the types of people to
whom their attracted, is itself un-scientific. It sounds like you're just speaking out of
your emotions.
"I'm also going to include from the interview with Cohen, him exhibiting some other activity
practiced at this camp. It's essentially beating ABUSIVE parents to death in effigy. Again,
in an attempt to create some childhood conflict myth that when overcome is going to allow
you to leave the homosexual lifestyle behind."
You make a big mistake at the very end of this one when you say "it's going to help
you leave the homosexual lifestyle behind." I, for one, did not live a homosexual lifestyle.
The methodology used, presented, in the presentation that you gave of beating a representation
of some concept in a person's mind as causing healing of homosexuality... 1st: none of these
therapies all by themselves are claimed to be an automatic cure. It's a long term process
for the vast majority of people. Two: the forms of therapy that are used, the
way in which the therapy is going to be expressed depends upon the individual and the therapist
who perceives what may be most beneficial for him.
In my experience at the Journey Into Manhood weekend, I personally, ...no, I've seen it
before what is described, but not at the Journey Into Manhood weekend. We were divided up into
groups and I don't recall seeing even one person have that therapy presented to him.
In all types of therapy...