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Hello my delicious co-creators, Lilou here. I'm here in Quebec City at the Quebec
book fair and here's my guest Bernard Werber.
L: Hello BW: Hello
L:I'm so excited to meet you in person and I'm very touched in this very moment
because for me you are a pioneer with a vision, someone who really touches
people and thus allowing them to open doors to consciousness.
Have you got the same feeling that you are contributing to the change in the
world and to do good to the planet? BW: Wow, uh... well, no. I just feel like an
author telling stories to be honest. If afterwards these stories can open new
horizons in the minds of my readers, that's wonderful. But when I'm writing I
don't have any other motivation than to entertain. I'm seeing myself as an artisan
being connected to the very old tradtion of storytelling like the bards did. I don't
pretend to be more. Of course, the topics I write about like spirituality, death, God,
the afterlife, .. L: Symbolism
BW: Yes. When I write about these topics I am aware that for some persons this can
have a more or less important impact but for me it's before all only storytelling. My
only desire is to drag the readers away from their everyday life and make them
feel better. Maybe find ideas which will refresh their daily routine. But it doesn't
go beyond that. L: But where does it all come from? All
this information, this imagination? BW: I believe that this is common
knowledge, available inside all of us. It's just that the eduction, the schools, the
parents, the normal world make us forget about it and make us ignore this little
voice inside our heads. I believe that we all have in our subconscience this big
wisdom and the work consists in reconnecting to this treasure
that we already own. Myself, as an artist, the first thing I do in
the morning is writing down my dreams. My dreams seem to be a way for me to
connect to this inner treasure, this subconscious which is filled with
information, knowledge and wisdom. But we forgot about it and we no longer know
how to listen to our inner voice. L: Is this also the reason for you
meditating? BW: I was going to make a joke by telling
its Albin Michel (note: his publisher) who meditates but well... this joke is not funny
so... Meditation is a huge word. I think we link a lot of stuff to the word meditation.
In general, often before going to bed, I try to not to move and to calm down. I call
that meditation but when people are telling me they stay immobilized in the
lotus position emptying their heads I get the impression they are doing it their way.
Me, it's just about making stop the mind chatter to be in better shape for writing
the morning after. This can be considered meditation. I keep my back straight, that's
the first important thing. Then I close my eyes and try to stay in the universe of
silence. I believe it's not good if we are all the time in a noisy environment with
people stimulating our senses, watching the news, play with our smartphone etc.
Our brain is getting tired because of all that. But I prefer the word break instead
of calling it meditation because that's what I do and that's what I suggest my
readers. Also, my characters discover very often the need to take a break.
L: So it's really your characters who guide you and teach you all this?
BW: Well, it's more complicated. L: Who communicate maybe?
BW: When I feel like giving a piece of advice about wisdom I make my
characters say it. For instance, I had discovered the opening of the five senses
which consists in watching what is around us, listen to what surrounds us,
feel our body etc. I integrated all this in "Cassandra's mirror" and each time I read
this part of the book again, I started practising this technique. So there is a
moment, where I use my characters to teach myself and in a second time they
teach my readers. But it's complicated because there are moments when you
know and understand the things and you know it's right but you don't do it. So you
need to go beyond that. Earlier I talked about the break. I feel it's
indispensable. If I don't take these breaks, in my head thoughts are moving too fast,
things are getting chaotic. To remember taking these breaks I get my characters to
do them. L: And this idea to make talk the earth in
your latest creation "third humanity", where did it come from?
BW: I've got the impression every human being knows intuitively that our planet
earth is alive. It's just we don't care. We are here in our little lifes, our
appartments, our cities, our countries. So we think in a limited way.
When we got the first pictures of our planet earth taken from space in the
1960's the view changed because we could see our planet as a whole. And
starting from that moment arises the thought that this sphere is alive. It's not
just a rock, it's not only a giant billiard ball. By the way, the proof that it's alive is
that it moves, that it has got a heart and most important: it produces life! We all
are the result of a chemical experiment of our planet. The work for me as an author
was to give it a consciousness and the faculty of thought and to detail all this in
"third humanity". In a second time, I sort of switched the view and assuming that
the planet earth is conscious, what does it think of us? We are a little emerging
species which does a lot of things but which is - in my mind - still in its
adolescent stade. Meaning, it makes a lot of mistakes because it didn't quite
understand yet what's going on. L: And are other species like for example
the ants or the dolphins more conscious in your point of view? Which is the link
between us, the earth and those species? BW: Well, first of all, what rose my
interest in the ants was the fact that they were here way earlier than us. We have
been on this planet for 7 million years and the ants for at least 120 million years. So,
we are a young species and they are an old species. The matter of fact that they
are tiny and thus get easily crushed, that they are fragile and seem to merely act
automatically doesn't change a thing. They are an old species, they even
construct towns, they've got a civilisation and do agriculture, they make war, they
are architects etc. All this seemed very interesting to me and led me to write
about them as an ancient species from which we have lessons to learn.
The dolphins are also very interesting because of their return to the ocean after
their onshore experience. It's like they decided that the liquid element was more
interesting than the solid element. Are they more connected? Well...
L: Some people I interviewed think the dolphins have got a higher consciousness
and that we would need to observe them and spend time with them in order to
learn from them.. BW: Well, I guess this can't be proven
until we establish a real communication with these species. For the moment this is
only a projection and it is only part of the imagination and for me it doesn't go
beyond my creative work. Scientifically speaking, it seems difficult to me to tell
that dolphins have got a higher consciousness than us. On the other
hand, there is something interesting in observing the ants which I know better
than the dolphins. After having exploited a zone by elevation or hunting they move
to another place. It's as if we moved a town to another place after having
exploited and polluated its environment. And this idea not to stay at the same
place seems interesting to me. To my mind, the ants better respect the planet
and its ressources than we do. Also, they've got another advantage compared
to us: They are self-regulating. When there is a lack of resources the queen
stops laying eggs. We don't have this wisdom to act like they do. Our premiss is
to procreate to become more and more numerous without taking into account the
available resources. We are not a self-regulating species but
one with a constant growth and I think many problems will emerge because of
that. Be it the pollution, wars or conflicts, the source of all this is our incapability to
control our demographic increase. Even the rabbits stop reproducing when they
detect a lack of resources. L: You talk about travelling as well. You
explain that a human being can grow due to travelling. Yourself you are in Quebec
today, you travel too. Not all the authors do that, especially the known ones, only
to meet their readers. Do you have any advice to give concerning growth and
evolution or how to make changes in our society?
BW: Well, I was a journalist for seven years at the "observateur" and I met a lot
of colleagues who only wrote articles based on the communications of press
agencies like the AFP of which they only modified the first and the last phrase. And
I told myself that they missed out on a lot of information by not wanting to go to the
event or place themselves. I always tried to make reports being on location and as
the journal didn't want to pay for that I finished paying out of my own pocket. I
think the best way to obtain information is not by watching TV or reading press
agency wires which are often conditioned or influenced by the governments but to
go directly to the place of the event and to observe what is going on. For a long
time I have been trying to invest my money into travels which would teach me
how the mind works. Fortunately, when I became an author, I got offered the
opportunity to travel all over the world to talk about my books. And moreover, I got
the chance to meet my readers who explained me how they understood my
books. I don't believe in authors being on their own in their ivory tower observing
the world through TV or through their windows. I think it is necessary to go
meet people, look into their eyes, talk to them, create a dialogue. By dialogue I
mean listen to and enrich the other, receive what the other has to offer and
create a real exchange. It's really difficult to do that because we were not educated
to do that. Earlier I mentioned that we don't get educated to listen to our
subconscious mind but we don't either get educated to listen to each other. And
last but not least we don't get educated to arrive at a new place and absorb the
impressions but this is something indispensable for me. Being curious about
everything which is not us, being interested by the unknown, take an
interest in everything around and outside of us which moves and evolves.
L: In some ways it's a little bit like a medition. I got a little bit the impression
during the interview to be in a meditative state . The field of possibilities is present
and open. ... While listening and not judging we try to be really present and to
observe and to benefit from this new space, from the person across from me.
It's so interesting to discover your world. How come that it is so enriching?
BW: The fact that you created this system, this web TV on the net, shows
that everything is possible. That you don't need a lot of administrative institutions or
a journal or TV station to authorize you doing what you do. You could just create
this media and that's the big advantage of the modern technologies. And
congratulations to having succeeded in your project. I totally understand what
you are saying. Listening to someone is indeed sort of a meditation. That's
something that each spiritual technique teaches, and here I think especially about
Yoga or other eastern techniques. They all talk about attention. The attention you
pay to the things around you and don't have your mind being diverted. That's
really difficult because we weren't educated to do that. We try to achieve
this goal to be really attentive and 100% aware but it might take a lifetime to
succeed. For example, in this moment I talk to you but I'm not really paying 100%
attention because a part of me is already thinking about the next phrase, my day,
my return to France, my novel which allowed me to come here. I don't manage
to be totally focussed. But I'm getting better and I invite everybody to try it out.
Try to stay focussed in the present moment and live it to a max. Be here and
be present in the now seems so easy but in fact it isn't. And I've got another idea
which goes with the first one: Accept the world as it is. We are so often angry and
got the impression of injustice. The feeling that things are not right. That it is
someone else's fault. And at some point there is a form of wisdom that says: "this
world is this way. I received this set of cards. You can't say "I don't have the
right cards." These are the cards you need to play with!
I think that this is the best time for humanity, even if we hear about our
future problems, the pollution.. it's a time where we can act, it's a time where we are
aware of what is happening. In the past people weren't aware. There could have
been the pest in China, in other countries nobody knew. Today we know. We are
aware of all sort of drama that exist. We are all connected. And we have the
possibility to act. See, you created a TV channel, everyone can go on the internet
and start a blog or gather like-minded people around an idea. We are the first
generation that is aware and able to act. That's phantastic! But now that we've got
the tools to stay informed we need to act accordingly and try to evolve in the best
direction possible. I've got the impression that the biggest part of humanity is
attracted by autodestructive behavior and sees violence as a way of protection. But
now we really need to invent a new way, we need to rethink humanity. Harmony is
needed. Meaning no more increase, violence or fear but something allowing
everyone to find their place right here and now and strive for balance rather than for
conquests. L: The feminin part.
BW: Yes. That's true. But there are also women who are tough-minded or even
cruel. L: I rather meant the feminine energy..
BW: In my novel I say that the future belongs to the feminin power. But just
this morning I wrote that there also exist women who are tougher, more aggressive
and more destructive than men. So don't believe that everything feminine is good
and everything masculine is bad! But it is true that women have got the power to
give birth and that men got a lot of testosterone. Thus women easier respect
life and men are more into the defense of the territory and ready to combat
everyone approaching. But a wholly feminine world would also be a little
difficult ... L: Yes, indeed. But the good thing is that
we all have a feminine and a masculine part inside of us.
BW: Yes. That brings us back to the topic "balance". We have got Yin and Yang. I
like the eastern philosophies because of that. They discovered that in the Yin there
is a little part of Yang and vice versa. But today, our world is too much in the
masculine part. When watching the news I've got the impression that it's all about
football and wars and the show-offs telling everyone that they've got a
solution for everything. I've got the impression that today it would be
necessary to equilibrate our societies a little more in direction of the feminine. But
too much of the feminine would bring us other problems. The ideal would be a
50:50 proportion. You know that scientists found out that if one of
the two sexes of a plant gains the majority, the plant succeeds in regaining
a well-balanced number. It's like nature knows that a Yin-Yang balance is
necessary. Contrary to that, behind you I see all these guys running after a football
and the people around cheering and shouting. That's the Yang part, the
masculine part, which is overrated these days. By the way, this craziness about
football and other ball games seem to me like an appetite for war that got
rerouted and which is not at all the same thing as the motivation to reconcile with
nature (topic we discussed earlier on). L: A question a little bit more private: Are
you in love? Do you have a loved one in your life, a wife? Because love creates a
balance in life, after all. Could you give us a hint?
BW: Well, I'd prefer to keep it a secret. Especially if this interview is going to be
published on YouTube. L: But love contributes to our balance?
BW: I am very lucky to have met extraordinary women with whom I lived
extraordinary times. But I think the education of men concerning women is
endless. Whatever stade you are in, understanding your couple is like
reconnecting to yourself. It's like a whole life. The moment where you could say
"that's it. It's stable. I created the perfect couple and it will stay like that" doesn't
exist. There is a quest for every man to understand women and for every woman
to understand men. And this quest never comes to an end.
L: Wonderful. I'm so excited to having had this conversation with you today and to
be able to share it with everyone. I've got a short last question concerning the
INREES (a French research institute for extraordinary experiences). You are a
member of the INREES and I had the occasion to interview other members of
this institute like Dr. Chambon and Jean-Jacques Charbonier. Why did you
decide to join this institute? BW: Back then I met Stéphan Allix, the
founder of the INREES who convinced me. It is interesting to create a community
of curious people who are doing research in these special fields. Be it scientists,
Tibetian sages or Oriental sages, Stéphane Allix gathered around him so
many great people who are asking the right questions in a different manner.
Very often behind the projects there is this man who had a vision and his vision
interested me. This project is a possibility for different
visionaries to unite and to compare their systems.
Myself, I wanted to found a similar structure called the "visionaries club" but
I'm not a good organizer and administrator. With all the paperwork and
the associations etc. that drove me crazy. Stéphane was more patient and energetic
while creating his group and thus I preferred joining him.
L: This group is nevertheless related to the extraordinary and the paranormal.
BW: Yes. But it is necessary to specify that today everything spiritual is
considered suspicious because there are persons who misused these terms. It
would almost be necessary to define a deontology to prevent that those raving
too much don't contaminate those being more reasonable. Because if this is not
being realised many people not knowing a lot about spirituality will mix up sects,
gurus and abusive persons using spirituality to gain influence on others
with the real spiritual people who are honest and sincere. I don't know how to
set that up but we would need ethics here.
One day, I sort of visited different spiritual orientations like zen,
transcendental meditation, hypnosis. I went to ashrams etc. and I can tell you
that I saw really insane people. Someone who wants to try meditation would need
the possibility to distinguish between a sect and people teaching this technique in
a sincere way. But today, we are a little bit in the wild West. Meaning, there are many
possibilities to invent things, many possibilities to create interesting groups
but you need to be very aware and detect the extremes because even in spirituality
there can be excesses. L: What touches you concerning
spirituality? Are there any criteria? BW: Let's say, humble leaders who are
not seeking personal power. L: Or money.
BW: Yes. But I'd like to add something else. I think we should avoid all systems
suggesting to consume substances that act on the brain. So everything like
Ayahuasca.. L: That's been a big topic lately..
BW: Yes, exactly. I just talked about that yesterday.
Taking drugs, psychotropics, roots and stuff like that - even if in my novels
characters consume these I will illustrate that there is an abuse concering them. In
general, we don't really know all these products acting on the brain are actually
working. And you might have an important price to pay later on. So I think
it's better to open your mind's windows only with your innate forces and not take
substances to achieve that goal. Don't take drugs or hallucinogens which
would intoxicate your body. I believe in meditation and I am convinced that we
don't need drugs. L: "Natural high" as the American say.
Life itself is exciting. Why add someting. BW: The biggest rise in consciousness
consists in opening your senses and absorb the reality. You don't need to
absorb a plant which will then act on your brain. But that is just a personal intuition.
I think there will be persons who don't agree with that.
But there is a phrase in alchemy saying that the one who didn't get purified will
get damaged by the "chymical wedding". That's the base. Meaning:
People suffering from neurosis, psychosis, childhood issues or other, if
they take these substances, their problems will be reinforced. And the
result might be terrible. I'm thinking of some cases I heard of in my environment.
These persons thought that it was about spirituality but they ended up in a
paranoiac delirium. That's why I was asking earlier to codify spirituality and to
report every excess that might occur. People transferring spirituality shouldn't
expect power or money out of it. It should rather be like a transfer of something that
a person learned and that they offer to others afterwards.
L: A kindness, a verve, an authenticity. And also a transparency because very
often when it comes to sects and gurus there are often little details which are not
ok. But which are not significant enough to make us watch out and listen to our
inner voice. BW: Exactly. You are speaking of
intuition. That's our most valuable quality. We know everything. We know when
things are not working out correctly. We know when people are having doubts. We
know when a substance will harm us. We need to stay connected to our inner self
and don't expect that other people will feed us thoughts. And that's why I get
back to what I said earlier about my job as an author. I'm here to ask questions but
it's not my job to give any answers. I'm here to open windows but you are not
compeled to look outside. I'm here to suggest behavioral patterns which seem
harmonious to me and stabilizing for the mind but at the same time challenging you
to discover the world but I don't have any further aspirations. I think that being an
author is an extraordinary job which is giving me so much satisfaction and I hope
that my creations can do the same for my readers.
L: And this quest for authenticity that you bring up very often? Why do you always
publish novels? Will there be a nonfiction book one day?
BW: Well, because I've got the impression that in essays there is often the
assumption to know the truth but I don't know the truth. All these guys trying to
explain how to be happy, how to meditate, how to find fulfillment in a relationship or
at work or elsewhere.. They seem to me like persons pretending to having
understood something. Personally, I don't have truths to reveil so I couldn't write
essays. In France, books about personal development are really in vogue
nowadays and I know that this has been something quite popular in North Amercia
for a long time. But each time I have a look at one of these books I ask myself
the question "who is this guy giving me advice on how to develop my
personality?" Did they develop their personality? What is their life like? When I
talk to a psychoanalyst or psychologist they say the same thing. These people
trying to explain me how to be happy, are they happy themselves? Often there is
this strange phenomenon that people telling you to do something do the
opposite themselves. You know what I mean?
I will tell you a little anecdote: When I attended a school of journalism back
then, at the end of my studies the teachers told us that none of them was
working as a journalist. They told us if we succeeded to get a job as a journalist to
think of them. And I thought, well that's weird. They failed but teach us how to
succeed in this profession? And the same thing happened in a
scriptwriter school. One of the teachers said that he has been writing screenplays
for thirty years but never succeeded in placing one. Same story there. Those who
failed were telling the students how to succeed. Same for literary critics (at least
in France). These are writers who didn't succeed in finding readers and now
explain what is good and what is not. That just makes me wanna tell them to write a
successful book themselves if they are that strong.
Be wary of people giving advice. Especially those pretending to know the
truth. L: But this is common to every branch,
not only to spirituality or personal development. It's the same thing for
literature, television, governments. Everywhere.
BW: Yes, exactly. And the only way to remedy this is to listen to your own little
inner voice. I think we've got the innate capability to detect non authentic people.
Naturally we'd understand that someone only wants money from us or wants us to
give him of our power. You need to be attentive concerning these points and
always remember that the solutions are inside of us and that we are the best
guide for ourselves. And when we get lost we need to ask ourselves the question
how to reconnect again to the best guru ever - ourselves. And the answer could be
through meditation. L: Long live the inner guru! Thank you
Bernard Werber. Thank you for this delicious conversation which was very
rich on information and emotion. I really appreciated your sincereness and your
way of being. Thank you so much! Big kisses my delicious co-creators from
the Quebec book fair. Bye!
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