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Susan: I wanted to talk to you about the project we are doing on Wikipedia.
Its called, "Let's Start with Jerry"
And of course you know that Jerry Andrus was a very dear friend of yours and of James Randi.
The project your aware of is that a we are trying to universally create Jerry Andrus pages throughout Wikipedia in every language.
And we believe, have you heard of the phrase 7 degrees of separation from Kevin Bacon?
Have you heard of that when they say? Jerry Andrus is one degree from everything that has to do with skepticism.
So we believe that if we create Jerry Andrus's page
because also not only was he a notable skeptic
because his creations still inspire inspire people today
optical illusions are a great way of spreading skepticism
and its a great way for us to translate videos in other languages
as they don't need a lot of words, the optical illusion presents itself as it is.
So I selected Jerry Andrus to start with.
And after that is done and we have people from many languages to volenteer on the project
and we need a lot more volunteers, which is why I'm video tapping this today
Because once his page is created then they will be trained
they will be ready to help out on the project and we can move on from there to
many other pages, Uri Geller, yours, James Randi (which is mostly done), spoon bending, cold reading
and we can do the whole spectrum of everything from there.
So I just want to get your thoughts on that project and see if you thought it was a good idea?
Ray: To begin with your aware I assume that there is a Jerry Andrus website?
Susan: Right - I've used in many times
Ray: I haven't looked at it in awhile.
But from one time they had a lot of good things. Susan: Yes
Ray: they had video... Susan: yes, and now they are on his Wikipedia page.
Ray: Good ahh I think it is a great project and Jerry is just the ideal person
he is known all over the world. Susan: right Ray: among magicians
he is also known for his optical illusions
and he is the pure skeptic in the best sense of the word.
He always was, he began at age 12 being a skeptic
and this happened when he was coming home from school
once I was very much interested in finding out... Susan: okay?
Susan: We are going to get some good stuff now
Ray: yeah, so he was walking home from school
when he was age 12, and his high school had just lost a game to a competing middle school
a basketball game to a competing middle school and he among all the others they would
students at his school were complaining that the judge the referees were dishonest
made bad calls and stuff like that, the team didn't really lose.
they lost because of the referres and other stuff and as he was walking home, he doesn't know why it dawned on him
what if I were going to that other school? I would be saying we beat those guys because they were inferior to us
we are a better school you know, and that got him thinking
from then on everything began thinking,
his mother was a born again Christian very fundamentalist
his father I don't know to much about because he died when he was young.
just about a bit before he was 12. And a but anyway, living in a
growing up in a lumberjack red-neck town, Aubany, Oregon
heres this guy who suddenly becomes skeptical about everything
religion, going through the Bible, finding contradictions and stuff like that.
Susan: I can totally picture this too
Ray: And he a from then on in he began thinking about all kinds of stuff.
he thought that the most important thing for the human mind was to be rational to use it.
and so a he by himself became a total skeptic, magician who created all his own magic Susan: Right
Ray: Everything he did was so unique he would fool magicians all the time.
Martin Gardner once wrote, "Jerry Andrus is the only magician who can consistently fool all the other magicians." Susan: right
Ray: and an Jerry I got him started in optical illusions, I take credit for that.
Susan: Okay Ray: It was 1977 or something like that the late 1970's I showed Jerry an illusion
called the Mach-Eden Illusion.
I did it with file cards. By the way these file cards Jerry used to cut them for me
but being Jerry he didn't buy file cards, he cut big sheets of paper
and cut them up himself, does everything himself, so he used to keep me supplied.
He used to keep my supplied with stuff, I miss Jerry for a lot of reasons.
He used to keep me supplied with them, so since we have these things this is ideal to show you the Mach-Eden. Illusion.
Mach was a famous physicist at the turn of the century. 1800 to 1900.
and a a Eden was a contemporary at MIT he discovered this illusion.
The Mock illusion is you see a drawing of a book you see something like this 2-D drawing
and people see the book is open this way. Susan: right Ray: Then you stare at it it will flip around
and you will see that this is the spine. Susan: OH YES! Ray: So that the ... Susan: Oh my gosh!
Ray: So that's the Mach illusion. So Eden added this thing to it
and he found that it takes awhile that if you stare with one eye
eventually everything reverses and this becomes ... Susan: right ... yes
and once it reverses you get a strange lighting effect
and once it is reversed then when you move your hand like this it moves the opposite way
from your hand and if you try to do this, you can still hold it and try to move it this way
it fights you because its going the other way
so its a great illusion. I showed that to Jerry and he didn't seem to be interested I thought
I thought, but two weeks later he shows me, "the problem with that illusion (unintelligible) so he created the parabox
he made a house Susan: wooden? the wooden ... oh yeah, yeah! Ray: no it's a house
if you look at it... Susan: With a wing on it Ray: it makes it easy to reverse
if you reverse it correctly you see his little house. Susan: So he took this illusion Ray: he went on their and created a variety of things
based on that and then suddenly he branched out on new, once he got started with that
he saw illusions all the time. The classic one ... I was the one that named it, the Tri-Zone Space
the spinning one with the three zones
and ah once he gets going on something like that he just all of a sudden ... all kinds of wonderful illusions
Susan: any object you would hand him he would be like... Ray: you see this carpet here?
if Jerry were here he would show you how to look with one eye and get all kinds of illusions out of that just by standing on it because it's repetitive patern
he could show you, if you could cross your eyes then you would see like your wallowing in the depths of these flowers
I remember many times when we were staying at hotels
we would be in the corridor of the hotel and there would be carpet something like this
and Jerry would have a group, two or three of us to stand and look at that in the right way
and then other people passing by would see us standing there and pretty soon there would be a whole crowd looking at it trying to see what is going on
what are you looking at? What are you seeing? Susan: Are you looking for a contact lens there?
So Jimmy had a fun life in many ways on top of that Jerry wrote his music
I didn't know this until we were cleaning out his house after he died
Susan: right Ray: he wrote all his own music, he built this organ which is a fantastic device
started with a Heathkit, They had these organs you could get in the mail. Heathkit you could put together your own organ
but he began to add to it. Do you know what a theremin is? Susan: no Ray: its a
this guy Therein was a Hungarian or Czech I'm not sure and he invented maybe in the 30's or 40's this musical instrument
which operates from the heat from your hands, the heat rays
and you get your hand near it you get different tunes
and Jerry built one of that and added it to his organ.
he had other things, he had electric lights coming from the ceiling which he could use to operate you see
put his elbow in front of this light coming down here (unintelligible) TV companies used to come
and show and do and play his music, only played music he had written himself, typical Jerry
and he could play this thing and get all kinds of effects bring his elbow here and it was quite a show to see this thing
there were lights going on the whole thing, and he kept adding to it and he had it in the front living room of his house
which by the way we got it on the National Register. Susan: Oh good, I had heard that
so anyway the front room of the house, pretty soon it got so big it took over the front room of the house
the front door couldn't be used anymore
and that's where the mail slot, that's the mailman would leave the mail and so that always continued
the mail kept coming there but they couldn't get to use that door, you had to use the side door
so when he had to get his mail, he had to lie down flat on the floor and reach under several things
and he could snag his mail, he couldn't always get all his mail.
I remember getting a phone call one time from Steven Mitch who is a well-known magician
who also now has his publisher press where he publishes magic the cream of the crop
that time Steven was working in a magic shop in Seattle, and he called me and he said "Ray, can you take after Jerry Andrus for me?"
'We sent him a check 3 years ago and he still hasn't cashed it".
(unintelligible) Linking Rings he used to sell. Susan: It was still sitting there?
Ray: It was still sitting there. He just ... he never got everything.
Susan: This is why we do Wikipedia, because I've never heard any of these stories
I've been re-writing the Jerry Andrus page for months now and the Ray Hyman page
and this story Doesn't exist ANYWHERE or any of these stories
this is why we are doing Wikipedia because through this video we will be able to cite this on their pages
and everybody will be able to see this, and not only in English we are are going to do this in every language we possibly can
and I have a whole series of volunteers and I need more volunteers, contact me at susangerbic@yahoo.com.
And lets get this Jerry Andrus page written and from Jerry lets just move on and take over the whole world and get some
skepticism out there globally. Okay?
Ray: Well another thing ... Susan: (laughter) Ray: This you have to know...
Jerry was noted for his high morality. Susan: yes Ray: He did not like to tell a lie
Susan: He told one lie, got that, he only told one lie. Ray: But you know the stories that go along with it?
Susan: that he... didn't want to give his opinion cause if it was... Ray: That's that's true
oh yes, you have heard of Max Maven? Susan: Yes I know. Ray: Well Max came one time to Portland to a show
in Portland and he asked both Jerry and I if we would go, I couldn't make it
for some reason. Jerry came up from Albany and sat through it his show. Susan: Right Ray: and a they way Jerry tells it, what he told me
about it was Max was mainly using cards and Jerry thought it was too much and wasn't impressed.
He thought Max could do better, and he was fearing he hoped Max wouldn't come and ask him how he did
and sure enough Max did
I know the story because I first tell you the other side
I told you about Steven Mitch okay Susan: okay?
Ray: Steve Mitch called me from Seattle and Max had gone from Portland and then to Seattle and ah
and so he talked with Steve
and Steve called me and said "what did Jerry do to upset Max so much"? I said
Jerry would never do anything to upset anyone? Well
he said, Max said that he went up to Jerry and said "Jerry, what do you think of my show"?
Jerry said, after thinking for awhile he said "but Max, you have a nice voice".
Susan: Oh my! That was honest. That is pure Jerry. And he wouldn't lie, he only told one lie
I found that story Ray: okay Susan: Do you remember that? The only lie he ever told?
when he was in the Army Ray: Oh yes, you did, he didn't want to take advantage, they told him about the eye chard Susan: no, what letter is not on the phone?
Ray; that's it! Right right that's right Susan: And when the people came out, they were doing an intelligence test
when the guy came out of the room they asked the guy, "what did they ask you?"
there's a letter missing off the dial of the phone, and they said "what is it? Its the letter Q" so when Jerry went it
Ray: he refused it Susan: yeah, when he went in and they said "do you know what letter is missing off the phone dial"?
He said "No sir I don't" Even though he knew the answer, he lied. Ray: that's right
Susan: Even though he knew the answer he lied. Ray: that's right because he was comparing two moralities against each other
Susan: That's Jerry! Okay! Your arm's probably dead. (speaking to the camera man)