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COULD FACE A
SUMMER OF SIMILAR PROTESTS.
IT CAME IN THE FORM OF A VIDEO
ON THE INTERNET.
THIS VIDEO POSTED ANONYMOUSLY TO
YOUTUBE, SHOWS DETAILS OF HOW TO
SHUT DOWN A RAIL LINE.
THE GOAL IS TO PROTEST THE SLOW
PROGRESS IN RESOLVING THE MORE
THAN 800 UNSETTLED LAND CLAIMS.
NATIONAL CHIEF OF THE ASSEMBLY
OF FIRST NATIONS PHIL FONTAINE
SAYS THAT HE DOES NOT CONDONE
SUCH ACTIONS, BUT ON THE OTHER
HAND, HE SAYS THAT THEY GROW OUT
OF THE DESPAIR AND DEPLORABLE
LIVING CONDITIONS IN NATIVE
COMMUNITIES.
>> Interview: THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT I HERE INCLUDE, THEY
SHOULD BE REACHING OUT TO US.
>> Carole: THE MINISTER FOR
INDIAN AFFAIRS, JIM PRENTICE,
ADMITS THAT THERE'S A SERIOUS
BACKLOG PROBLEM BUT ON THE OTHER
HAND, HE SAYS THERE'S NO NEED TO
PROTEST.
>> Interview: WE'RE MOVING TO A
NEW SYSTEM THAT WILL DEAL WITH
THOSE CLAIMS.
>> Carole: NATIVE GROUPS IN
ONTARIO HAVE BEEN RATCHETING UP
PROTESTS IN THE LAST YEAR.
JUST LAST MONTH MOHAWK PO
TESTERS BLOCKED THE LINE BETWEEN
TORONTO AND MONTREAL FOR 30
HOURS.
AND NEXT MONTH COULD BRING MORE.
JUNE 29th IS BEING BILLED AS A
DAY OF PEACEFUL PROTEST ACROSS
CANADA.
HOWEVER, CHIEF TERRY NELSON IS
THREATENING A LONG BLOCKADE OF
THE RAIL LINES.
>> Interview: THERE'S ONLY TWO
WAYS TO DEAL WITH WHITE PEOPLE,
AND TO HAVE EFFECTIVE RESOLUTION
OF ISSUES.
ONE, YOU EITHER PICK UP A GUN
AND DEAL WITH THE ISSUE OR YOU
STAND BETWEEN THE WHITE MAN AND
HIS MONEY.
>> Carole: SO DOES THE SLOW PACE
OF CHANGE WARRANT DRASTIC ACTION
BY NATIVE PEOPLES?
JOINING US IS SHAWN BRANT, THE
NATIVE ACTIVIST WHO SPARKED
PROTESTS OVER LAND CLAIMS.
HE'S OUT ON BAIL AFTER BEING
CHARGED WITH MISCHIEF,
DISOBEYING A COURT ORDER AND A
BRIEF OF A KOG NISWRANS.
AND C.N. RAIL IS SUING SHAWN IN
A CIVIL LAWSUIT.
HE JOINS US IN TORONTO.
>> Evan: SHAWN, GOOD MORNING,
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING
US.
LET'S DEAL WITH THE MOST RECENT
SITUATION IN THE COURTS, THERE'S
AN INJUNCTION AGAINST YOU FOR
INCITING OR PARTICIPATING IN ANY
ACTS OF CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE SUCH
AS A BLOCKADE.
WILL THOSE COURT INJUNCTIONS
STOP THE POSSIBILITY OF MORE
BLOCKADES FROM TAKING PLACE?
>> Interview: I THINK IT'S FAIR
TO SAY THAT IN A COMMUNITY WE
HAVE ALWAYS MADE DECISIONS THAT
ARE BASED ON HEALTH, WELL-BEING,
AND THE FUTURE OF OUR COMMUNITY
AND OUR CHILDREN, AND AN
INJUNCTION IS SIMPLY A PIECE OF
PAPER.
WE'LL CONTINUE ON THE COURSE
THAT WE'VE DEMONSTRATED AND
WE'RE GOING TO MAKE DECISIONS
WITH THOSE UNDERSTANDINGS THAT
WE WILL NOT BE DETERRED FROM --
WE WILL NOT CONTINUE TO BE
DISRESPECTED BY THIS COUNTRY OR
BY THIS GOVERNMENT FOR ANY
LONGER.
>> Evan: SO IN OTHER WORDS, THE
INJUNCTIONS WON'T STOP.
GIVE US AN IDEA IN A LARGER
PICTURE FOR THOSE PEOPLE WHO
HAVE BEEN WATCHING THIS UNFOLD
IN CERTAIN PLACES ACROSS THE
COUNTRY WHY YOU THINK THAT CIVIL
DISOBEDIENCES IS A LEGITIMATE
WAY TO DEAL WITH THE GOVERNMENT
AS OPPOSED TO NEGOTIATION.
WHY IS THIS THE WAY TO DO IT?
>> Interview: WELL, CLEARLY
NEGOTIATIONS HAVE BEEN THE
PROMISE OF THE PAST.
THEY'VE BEEN ONE ASPECT OF
SOCIETY'S EXPECTATIONS ON
DEALING WITH THESE MATTERS AND
THERE ISN'T ANY MOMENT IN ANY
FIRST NATIONS COMMUNITY THAT
WOULDN'T LIKE TO SEE THESE
MATTERS RESOLVED IN A PEACEFUL,
PROPER WAY.
BUT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY ABOUT
CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE.
IN OUR COMMUNITIES WE DON'T SEE
THIS AS PROTEST, WE SEE THIS
ABOUT THE ESSENCE OF OUR
SURVIVAL AND THE ESSENCE OF OUR
CHILDREN'S SURVIVAL.
JUNE 29th, AS THE DAY THAT HAS
BEEN CALLED, IS TO BRING
ATTENTION TO THE 50,000 CHILDREN
WHO DIED IN RESIDENTIAL SCHOOLS,
TO THE FACT THAT OUR CHILDREN
GET SICK WHEN THEY DRINK THE
WATER, TO THE ABJECT POVERTY AND
THE ISOLATION AND DESPAIR THAT
EXISTS IN OUR LIVES EVERY DAY.
AND IT'S NOT ABOUT PROTEST FOR
US, IT'S ABOUT SURVIVAL.
>> Carole: SHAWN BRANT, HOW DOES
SHUTTING DOWN A HIGHWAY OR A
BUSINESS OR A COMMUNITY HELP YOU
SUCCEED IN IMPROVING THE LIVES
AND THE CONDITIONS OF THE PEOPLE
IN THE FIRST NATIONS ACROSS THIS
COUNTRY?
>> Interview: IT PROBABLY
DOESN'T HAVE ANY SUCCESS IN THE
WAY THAT PEOPLE WOULD PERCEIVE
IT OR UNDERSTAND IT, BUT THESE
TYPES OF ACTIONS IS THE ONLY WAY
THAT WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO HAVE A
VOICE.
I THINK THAT THE ENVIRONMENT
THAT'S BEEN CREATED IN THE PAST
BY THE GOVERNMENT OF CANADA IS
THAT FIRST NATIONS' CONCERNS AND
LONG-STANDING GRIEVANCES HAVE
BEEN DISCOUNTED AND IT'S ONLY
WHEN ACTIONS LIKE THIS ARE TAKEN
AND PEOPLE STAND UP AND STAND ON
THAT LINE AND MAKE THOSE
SACRIFICES THAT THE GOVERNMENT
SEES THAT THESE ISSUES ARE
IMPORTANT, WHEN POOR PEOPLE
STAND ON THE LINES AND GIVE UP
THEIR DAILY STRUGGLE FOR FOOD
AND DIGNITY AND TAKE THOSE
ACTIONS, PEOPLE BETTER BE
PREPARED TO LISTEN BECAUSE IT'S
SERIOUS.
>> Carole: LET'S BRING IN THE
GRAND CHIEF NOW.
YOU WERE GOING TO CONDUCT A
PROTEST AS WELL ON JUNE 29th.
WHAT WERE YOU GOING TO DO AND
WHY DID YOU DECIDE NOT TO?
>> Interview: WELL, OUR
COMMUNITIES, 42 COMMUNITIES
ACROSS ONTARIO, WE WERE GOING TO
BLOCK OFF THE HIGHWAY 401 RIGHT
NEAR LONDON AND WE WERE GOING TO
HOLD THAT BLOCKADE FOR ABOUT
FOUR HOURS ON THE AFTERNOON OF
JUNE 29th.
BUT OUR CHIEFS HAVE BEEN
RELATIVELY SUCCESSFUL IN
NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE MINISTER
OF INDIAN AFFAIRS AND JUST THIS
PAST FRIDAY WE SIGNED A
BILATERAL AGREEMENT WITH THE
MINISTER ON FUTURE NEGOTIATIONS
AND FUTURE PROGRESS IN SOME OF
OUR TALKS AND SO OUR CHIEFS THEN
DECIDED THAT WE WILL PULL BACK
FROM THE BLOCKADE FROM THE 401
AND WE WILL UNDERGO EDUCATION
PROCESSES AND SPEECHES AND
PEACEFUL MARCHS TO GET OUR
POINTS ACROSS.
>> Carole: LET ME JUST GET YOU
TO BRIEFLY GIVE US IN LAYMAN'S
TERMS, WHEN YOU SET UP A
BILATERAL NEGOTIATION, HOW DOES
THAT FURTHER YOUR CAUSE OF
GETTING THE LAND CLAIM SETTLED?
>> Interview: WELL, IT NOT ONLY
LOOKS AFTER LAND CLAIMS, WE'RE
HAVING BILATERAL TALKS, AND THAT
IS TALKS BETWEEN MYSELF AND THE
MINISTER OF INDIAN AFFAIRS AT A
FAIRLY HIGH LEVEL TO LOOK AT
BUILDING THE ECONOMIES WITHIN
OUR COMMUNITIES ON LAND CLAIMS,
AND IT WILL BE ON OUR ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT PROCESSES, IT WILL
ALSO BE ON A LANGUAGE
DEVELOPMENT.
WE WANT TO HAVE A FURRTHER ASPET
OF HAVING OUR CHILDREN BEING
TAUGHT IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE AND
THAT OUR CULTURAL DEVELOPMENT
WILL BE A KEY PART OF HOW WE
MOVE FORWARD INTO THE FUTURE.
AND SO WE'RE REALLY BUILDING OUR
COMMUNITIES WHICH WILL
EVENTUALLY WORK RIGHT DOWN TO
THE INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE THAT THEY
WILL BE BETTER OFF, THAT THEY'LL
BE -- WE'LL HAVE WEALTHIER
COMMUNITIES AND WE'LL BE
SOVEREIGN IN THAT WE WILL TAKE
OUR PLACE IN THE FABRIC OF THE
CANADIAN SOCIETY.
>> Evan: SHAWN BRANT, WHEN YOU
LISTEN TO THAT, YOU ARE SHAKING
YOUR HEAD AND YOU KNOW THAT
LEADERS LIKE PHIL FONTAINE ALL
AGREE WITH WHAT THE GRAND CHIEF
IS SAYING, NEW YORK, NOT
CONFRONTATION.
WHY ARE YOU SHAKING YOUR HEAD?
>> Interview: SIMPLY BECAUSE I
DON'T BELIEVE THAT STRAWBERRY
SOCIALS OR PANCAKE BREAKFASTS
WITH THE WHITE FOLKS IN THE TOWN
WILL BRING RESOLVE TO THESE
ISSUES OR BRING RESOLVE TO THE
LAND CLAIMS AND IT'S IMPORTANT
THAT THIS ISSUE NOT BE ONE THAT
IS DECIDED UPON RESERVE OR OFF
RESERVE, FIRST NATIONS PEOPLE,
URBAN OR RURAL, THIS NEEDS TO BE
DONE IN A MANNER AND A CONTEXT
THAT BRINGS PEOPLE TOGETHER WITH
AN UNDERSTANDING THAT WE'RE
WORKING TOGETHER IN THE SAME
DIRECTION.
AND THAT IT'S OUR INTENTION TO
RESOLVE THESE ISSUES ONCE AND
FOR ALL AND TO STAND TOGETHER ON
JUNE 29th AS ONE PEOPLE TO
DEMONSTRATE OUR STRENGTH AND
SOLIDARITY SO THAT THIS
GOVERNMENT AND THIS SOCIETY
NEVER DISRESPECTS FIRST NATIONS
PEOPLE AGAIN.
AND IF IT'S AN INCIDENT LIKE
THAT WE'LL DO THAT.
>> Evan: SO YOU SAY WORK
TOGETHER, AND HOW DOES STANDING
TOGETHER AND WORKING SQUARE WITH
ACTS OF CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE THAT
PEOPLE LIKE PHIL FONTAINE AND
THE GRAND CHIEF ARE SAYING ARE
ALIENATING CANADIAN SUPPORT.
HOW DOES THAT WORK TOGETHER TO
EXPEDITE THE PROCESS?
>> Interview: WELL, I DON'T
BELIEVE THAT MR. FONTAINE OR THE
GRAND CHIEF HAVE A TRUE
UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT'S GOING ON
IN FIRST NATIONS COMMUNITIES.
I'VE LIVED THERE AND I HAVE
BURIED TWO CHILDREN IN THE
GROUND THAT DIED BECAUSE OF
POVERTY.
THEY DON'T HAVE THE APPRECIATION
THAT -- WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW IS
THAT DESPAIR THAT WAS SPOKEN
ABOUT, THAT DESPAIR AND THAT
GRIEVING IS NOW TRANSLATING INTO
FRUSTRATION AND ANGER.
AND THESE ARE THINGS THAT AREN'T
SIMPLY GOING TO BE DIMINISHED BY
HAVING PEOPLE SAY THAT WE NEED
TO CONTINUE ON AN EDUCATION
PLAN, OR WE NEED NONVIOLENT
PRESENTATIONS TO WHITE PEOPLE.
WE DON'T NEED TO APPEASE PEOPLE.
PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE
CIRCUMSTANCES THAT WE LIVE IN
AND THE NEED FOR IMMEDIATE
ACTION TO BRING ABOUT A
RESOLUTION TO THIS.
>> Carole: GRAND CHIEF, YOU JUST
HEARD SHAWN BRANT SAY THAT YOU
DON'T UNDERSTAND THE SITUATION
AND WHERE IT'S AT RIGHT NOW.
WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT?
>> Interview: WELL, I CAN
SYMPATHIZE WITH SHAWN BRANT'S
OPINION AND I HAVE TO APPLAUD
HIS COURAGE AND WHAT HE'S DOING,
BUT THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO DO
THINGS.
AND EVEN THOUGH WE MIGHT BE
APPROACHING THE GOAL FROM A
DIFFERENT DIRECTION, IT'S THE
SAME GOAL, AND WHEN HE SAYS THAT
I DON'T UNDERSTAND OR CHIEF
FONTAINE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND, I
THINK THAT'S INCORRECT.
BEHIND ME YOU'LL SEE SOME LAND
THAT'S ACROSS THE WATER.
THAT'S FIRST NATION LAND, THAT'S
WHERE I LIVE.
AND I'VE LIVED THERE FOR QUITE
SOME TIME.
I WAS CHIEF ON THAT COMMUNITY.
I BURIED YOUNG PEOPLE AS WELL.
BUT BY GOING THROUGH A PROCESS
WHERE PROTESTERS OR OTHER PEOPLE
CAN BE INJURED OR HURT IS NOT
THE WAY TO -- IS NOT THE WAY TO
SOLVE PROBLEMS.
AND WE HAVE CHOSEN A DIFFERENT
PATH.
NOW, THERE ARE SO MANY OF OUR
COMMUNITY MEMBERS THAT LIVE IN
DESPAIR, THAT LIVE IN POVERTY,
AND THE YOUNG PEOPLE ARE
UNDEREMPLOYED AND OUR YOUNG
PEOPLE ARE IN DIFFICULT
CIRCUMSTANCES, THEY HAVE NOTHING
TO LOSE AND I THINK THAT'S
ALWAYS SOMETHING THAT'S BEHIND
US WHEN WE'RE SITTING THERE
NEGOTIATING.
AND IF THE NEGOTIATIONS DON'T GO
WELL, IF THE NEGOTIATIONS ARE
FALLING BACK, IF WE ARE NOT
RESPECTED AS TRUE NATIONS, THAN
THE YOUNG PEOPLE WILL PROBABLY
TAKE OVER.
WE HAVE TO SHOW RESULTS AND THE
GOVERNMENT OF CANADA HAS TO SHOW
RESULTS AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE AT
THE NEGOTIATION TABLE.
OUR NEGOTIATIONS ARE DIFFICULT
AND WE DO A LOT OF WORK IN
PREPARATION FOR THEM AND WE WILL
BE SUCCESSFUL.
>> Evan: GRAND CHIEF JUST PLAIN
SHOW, THERE'S 1,100 LAND GRANT
ISSUES THAT ARE UNRESOLVED AND
SHAWN BRANT'S POINT IS THAT
THERE'S BEEN DECADES AND DECK
AIDS OF NEGOTIATIONS AND FROM
FIRST NATIONS' PEOPLES, THERE'S
BEEN NO RESOLUTION.
WHAT RESULTS NOW WOULD MAKE IT
DIFFERENT?
>> Interview: WELL, WE'RE
LOOKING AT RESULTS AND BUILDING
OUR ECONOMIES AND WE'RE LOOKING
AT RESULTS, LOOKING AFTER THESE
LAND CLAIM ISSUES, BECAUSE WE
CANNOT BE SOVEREIGN, WE CANNOT
BE SELF-GOVERNING IF WE HAVE TO
GO TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR
HELP AND ASSISTANCE AND MONEY
AND THESE KIND OF THINGS.
WE HAVE TO BE SELF-SUSTAINING
AND THE ONLY WAY TO DO THAT IS
TO HAVE A BETTER LAND BASE.
WE NEED MORE LAND AND WE NEED
MORE LAND CLAIMS RESOLVED AND
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR IN
THESE NEGOTIATIONS.
>> Carole: SHAWN BRANT, WHAT
WILL IT TAKE TO STOP THE
PROTESTS?
WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THAT
YOU WOULD SAY, I WILL GIVE IT UP
HERE?
>> Interview: THE MINISTER HAS
PROMISED LEGISLATION TO DEAL
WITH THE LAND CLAIMS PROCESS,
THAT'S BEEN AN ANNOUNCEMENT AND
THERE'S BEEN NOTHING CONCRETE
FROM THAT.
AND, CERTAINLY, THE LAND CLAIMS
ISSUE, IT'S BEEN SHOWN THAT WHEN
LAND IS DEALT WITH IT BRINGS
ABOUT A FEELING OF HOPE AND
FUTURE FOR OUR COMMUNITIES AS
WELL AS PROVIDING FOR SOME
ECONOMIC RELIEF AND THAT'S ONE
ASPECT OF IT.
AND IT'S LONG-TERM AND THERE'S
SHORT-TERM NEEDS AND THE
NATIONAL CHILD TAX BENEFIT THAT
NEEDS TO STOP BEING PULLED BACK
WHEN IT'S GIVEN TO OUR PEOPLE BY
THE PROVINCE.
THIS IS A WAY OF PROVIDING FOR
IMMEDIATE RELIEF.
THERE NEEDS TO BE A
COMPREHENSIVE STRATEGY, NOT
SIMPLY DEALING WITH JUST LANDS
BUT A COMPREHENSIVE STRATEGY TO
DEAL WITH THESE OTHER ISSUES.
IT'S THE FUNDAMENTAL SOCIAL
ISSUES THAT ANTAGONIZES THE LAND
CLAIM PROCESS AND RESULTS IN THE
BLOCKADES.
AND AT THIS STAGE OF THE GAME I
AGREE WITH TERRENCE NELSON IN
MANITOBA THAT THE ONLY WAY TO
RESOLVE THIS IS TO PICK UP A GUN
OR TO STAND BETWEEN THE WHITE
MAN AND HIS MONEY, AND I AGREE
WITH THAT WHOLEHEARTEDLY AT THIS
STAGE IN THE GAME.
>> Carole: I'M AFRAID THAT IS
ALL THE TIME WE HAVE.
SHAWN BRANT IN ONTARIO, THANK
YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY AND
GRAND CHIEF IN PARRY SOUND,
THANK YOU BOTH FOR COMING ON THE
SHOW TODAY.
WE APPRECIATE IT.
>> Evan: WHAT DO YOU THINK, ARE
FIRST NATIONS PROTESTERS
JUSTIFIED IN DISRUPTING PEOPLE'S
LIVES TO GET THEIR POINT ACROSS?
DO THEY HAVE A GRIEVANCE THAT
THE GOVERNMENT ISN'T LISTENING
TO?
HOW SHOULD THE CONSERVATIVE
GOVERNMENT HANDLE THIS FILE?
WE LIKE IT HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS ON
ALL OF THE STORIES THAT WE BRING
YOU.
AND HERE'S HOW TO REACH US --
>> Carole: LATER IN THE SHOW,
HOW WILL THE CONSERVATIVE
GOVERNMENT COUNTER THE LEAK OF A