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Brian: Hello, hello and welcome to CatalystMLM. I'm Brian Swichkow and today on the show we
have Jill Konrath. Jill is a business to business sales expert helping sellers crack new accounts,
speed up sales cycles and win more business. She is the author of not one, but two, bestselling
books. Her first was Selling to Big Companies. Which has been one of of Amazon's top 25 sales
books for the last seven years. And Snap Selling, which is won more awards than I have time
to list. She has an email newsletter, which is read by a hundred thousand plus people,
world wide. Has been featured on ABC News, Wall Street Journal, and The New York Times.
Thanks so much for being with us.
Jill: It's good to be here Brian, thanks for having me.
Brian: So, I have been on that email list for quite some time, and always love seeing
your face pop up and an email come in. Because, it's great advice. And, a lot of it's really
simplistic in nature, but powerful. Because, it's easy to connect with, and it's really
just, you know, easily applied. But, you talk a lot about your love of sales. And how, when
did you first discover that love of sales?
Jill: Well I didn't, let me just say I didn't love sales from the beginning. I was a normal
human being and thought it was just kind of disgusting for many years. And, I was actually
a highschool teacher. And, not happy as a highschool teacher and wanted to get out.
And I tried to get people to hire me and they kept wanting to hire me in stupid jobs. And,
that didn't make me feel like they were taking advantage of what I could really bring to
the table. So, after, getting over the fact that nobody was gonna hire me, and do a job
I wanted. I decided I had to create my own company.
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: And, so I spent a year, researching. I'd come home and got with a couple of friends
and spent a year researching. Came up with a really good idea. Went to the service core
of retired executives. A government agency called Score, and they provide a really smart
seasoned person to give you advice. And that person said, you know, this is really a good
idea. Timely, it's spot on, it's absolutely gonna make it. And then he turned to the three
of us and said, now, which one of you three are gonna sell it? And, I mean again, this
is a distasteful word.
Brian: Right.
Jill: II had a good idea, I didn't wanna sell it, you know. And I looked at my friends and
they weren't looking at each other, they were both looking at me. And, that was not a good
sign. So I said to the guy, in as nice a way as I could. I said, I thought you said this
was a good idea. And he said, it is Jill, but somebody has to sell it.
Brian: Yep.
Jill: So, I actually went on a quest then to get a job selling. And got hired by Xerox,
and discovered that it was entirely different from what I thought. I mean I had sleezy manipulative
icky word stuck in my brain. And discovered that the real pro's, don't make you feel like
that way at all. It's only the bad people that make you feel like you're slimed. So,
it became a real challenge to figure out how to work in different environments. To figure
out how to work with different products. How to work with a new market segments, new customers,
new buyers. I mean that, to me selling was a, became a super challenge. And it was fun.
Brian: Yeah, and you said it in a previous interview, that, you know, sales, is, and
it's not really a secret, is that sales as an industry, as a process, is usually seen
as manipulative and . . .
Brian: *** and otherwise less than favorable. You know, I think the phrasing of the silver
tongue, like getting people to do things. But . . . .
Jill: Right.
Brian: the thing that you said is that, people see this negative view of sales, based on
the people who are bad sales people.
Jill: That's right.
Brian: And so, you know, with your new found love for like discovering what it actually
is about and how to do it well. How would you communicate that love to someone who still
despises it and hasn't discovered that yet?
Jill: Well, I have them think about, cause, what they, when they think about they despise
selling, they think about having to do that kind of stuff.
Brian: Right.
Jill: And that's what they think about having to do. They hate pitching their products.
And, it makes them feel grungy inside. And so I tell em, to think about the best sales
person they've ever met. Did they ever feel that way? And, the answer is always no. Well,
how did you feel? Well they were, you know, asking me questions about what was important.
And what I was trying to accomplish. And they were trying to help me figure out what worked
best for me.
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: And they were trying to do this. And, it's like, okay, what we need to do is reframe
your picture of a sales person because if you go out and you're a small business person,
you're trying to get customers. You're on a, emulate the worst, you will create obstacles
everywhere you go and you'll fail. But if you relax, and say look, this is a whole different
game. I'm just here, I have products . . .
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: or services that I sell that can help people achieve their objectives. Nobody wants
to buy my stuff because I have a bottle of this, of a box of that. You know, they don't
care about that. They care about what it does for them. So, if I just realize that what
I'm selling is a tool, and help them try to figure out how this tool might help them achieve
their objectives, it's much easier. And if the . . .
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: focus becomes a prospect, not on me. And if I do a good job focusing on the prospect
and their needs, I won't convince them to change, because it's not about convincing,
it's . . .
Brian: Right.
Jill: about creating a, creating an atmosphere of somebody's mind opens to new options. That
it might be different. And it might be helpful to them if they take a look at this. So . . .
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: that's what I try to do. And I strongly encourage people to take off that stupid sales
hat they put on. Because it literally, it's killing their business.
Brian: Yep.
Jill: It's killing their business.
Brian: Yeah, and a lot of people, it's interesting to see the people, you know, in Multi-level
Marketing, that get into it and are new. Verses the people who are seasoned and successful.
And, they you know, the new people kind of see it as I have to get out there and pitch
and sale.
Jill: Correct.
Brian: And they think that that widget that they have, is necessary. Everybody has to
have it. You know, and they look at a prospect and they say, you know, I have things, something
that's really helps. It helps health, you're sick, you need what I have. You're breathing
so you need what I have. And, granted, it may be true, that, you know, you're sick and
they need it. But at the same time, you can't go into it with that mentality. You're stupid
for not having it because that . . .
Jill: Right.
Brian: that doesn't work. And the seasoned pros, go in with the mentality of helping
people, you know, and saying what can I do to help you. And down the road the prospect
realizes that their, what they have is that solution. But they don't tell them that. They
don't push it that way.
Jill: They never push it, the seasoned pro never pushes. A seasoned pro focuses on the
person in front of them.
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: And their needs and what their trying to accomplish. And then goes from there. And
it's always, you know, I think there's a physical nature to the person who's too anxious. And,
one of the things I've taught people over the years is, because I. And I just say to
people, you have to stay consulted, you have to focus on your custom. And they say, well
I am Jill, I am. And I, you know, I've watched them on sales calls and it was fascinating
because anytime they got an opening, you know, or somebody says well, you know, I am sort
of struggling with this. They would lean forward, like, you know, I mean, it's like the shark
tank. You know, I was like, ahh. Like, oh my God, they have a problem I can solve. And
literally they would just go like this and they would get in somebody's face and . . .
Brian: Right.
Jill: the immediate reaction on the other end was that the person they were talking
to would immediately go like this.
Brian: Yep.
Jill: I mean, like, get away from me. And it was funny to watch the dynamic. And the
other thing I saw is that when people got excited about something they'd, they go oh,
oh, we have something about that and they'd reach down and they you know, pull out this
brochure. And they'd stick it in front of their prospect. And they'd shove it forward.
And they'd go like this . . .
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: I mean it was like there was a, they were salivating like Pavlov's dog, like they
had a hot one, just like. So anyway, I mean, I spent a lot of time teaching people to lean
back. You know, the minute you find yourself leaning forward, you are making somebody else
go like this. And they have to protect themselves and go like that.
Brian: Right.
Jill: So, we have to keep ourselves back so we can just have a conversation.
Brian: Well, it's, you know, people feel like they inadvertently just exposed their neck.
And now someone's jumping on it. You know, they didn't mean to expose their neck and
open it up. And I think one of the, and I always kind of laugh at it is the warning
of the, the dangers of joining the NFL club. Which, in Network Marketing is the no friends
left club. And that warning has become more and more prevalent in training, in multiple
companies. And it's not, I don't think anyone really invented it, it's just kinda been passed
along. But, the warning behind it is, you know, if you pitch and pitch and pitch you're
not gonna be invited to dinner parties. You know . . .
Jill: Right.
Brian: people aren't gonna wanna be around you because they're afraid that something
that they're gonna say is going to, you know, expose their neck. And then the person jumps
on it. Like if . . .
Jill: Right.
Brian: you know, I've seen people before that someone complains about work, just because
they wanna vent. And then all of a sudden it's like why do you have a job? You should
join this business. And it
Jill: Yeah.
Brian: just, it doesn't work. But you primarily do business to business sales.
Jill: Right.
Brian: So, how did, you know, what are the long term dangers of overlooking that when
you're doing business to business sales?
Jill: Well, all the dangers I think are short term. Because, you'll get an immediate reaction.
You get immediate blockage in your sales effort. I mean, you, well, with the long term effort,
the long term implications are really, you have to do so much more prospecting, to get
the business. And then you can become frustrated and give up. But that's the same thing I think
in the MLM business. I mean, you, anytime you come in at somebody and jump in at every
little opportunity and try to sell them something, you actually create a wall in front of, or
people create that wall in front of you. And, you don't go forward with them. So that means
that this person now is not an advocate for you. They're not somebody who's on your side.
They're turned off by you. And so, you have to go find somebody else. And . . .
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: more and more and more and more. So you spent an inadvertent amount of time, way
too much time doing prospecting. When you could be actually working with people who
are interested. So, to me it's a functionally, you gotta slow things down, focus on the other
person. Try to find if you can help them or not. Sometime you walk away and say, you know,
you really got it good right now. Congrats on what you're doing.
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: And not everybody's prospect, and you know, move to the next person. But, the eagerness
and desire to succeed is so felt by people. Because, it comes across as that in your face
pitch, so.
Brian: Right. And most people join MLM companies because they want to help. And they connect
with the product or the service. And . . .
Jill: Right.
Brian: a lot of times when they take that too fast and they get over ambitious. Because,
yes they're trying to help, but they are also trying to earn a living.
Jill: Yeah.
Brian: And, they go too fast. So, that that helping is kind of not seen and it's more
the, you know, over ambitiousness.
Jill: Right.
Brian: And, so, I mean, I guess, you know, it, that kind of explains the you know, B
to B versus the B to C. But, I guess the better question is, you know, you said in your book,
and you said it a few places. Is, the focus has to shift to how can I help my customer.
Jill: Right, always.
Brian: And, so, you know, I guess, what is the value that you see? What is the value
of giving value? And how does the lead to a sale?
Jill: The value of giving value. Well, I think first of all, I would say that most people
aren't looking to make a change in anything that they do. You know and I think we have
to understand that everybody is in a status quo mode. I mean, I'm in a status quo mode
with things that MLM people sell as well. You know, and I use the same lotions for years,
and I've eaten the same vitamins for years. I mean, you know, I could take a look at all
the things in my life and I'm in a status quo. So, you know, when you take a look at
what does it take. I mean, it's really a function of looking at the buyer and saying, what is
it that I bring to the table that they might not have? That they might be interested in
that could help them potentially reach their goals. What are their goals? Oh, I might have
to find out what their goals are. You know, I could assume, make some assumptions. And
it's okay to make some assumptions, but all assumptions must be tested . . .
Brian: Yep.
Jill: from the get go. I mean, I can assume that maybe any 26 year old, or 24 year old
who's just graduated from college is probably looking for a job.
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: You know, that's an assumption and it's probably true. But not necessarily, because
some may be going to Africa for a year.
Brian: Right.
Jill: And doing missionary, who knows what they're doing. But I think when you're taking
a look at, you know, what is it take and how to focus on the buyer. It's really, slowing
down and saying, who are they, what do they need, now can I help them get there. And asking
questions, designed to uncover that.
Brian: Yeah, and you talked about the, speed. And you know, you have to slow down. And you've
kind of said that a few times.
Jill: Slow down, yeah.
Brian: And I think that, I guess metaphorically speaking, like, everybody has their speed.
Let's, you know, make it a speed limit so you have an actual number. Which, is depending
on the person.
Jill: Yeah.
Brian: And if you go too fast, then they're gonna slow you down. But if you go slow they're
gonna ask you to speed up.
Jill: Yeah.
Brian: And what happens is it goes from a push to a pull.
Jill: Yes.
Brian: And when they finally become a customer, they not only become a customer, they become
an advocate.
Brian: And so what have you seen both in your own personal experience. But in the people
that you coach and train, you know, the power of having an advocate rather than just a customer.
Jill: Oh my God, the power of having an advocate. It's like a force multiplier. You know, if
somebody loves what you're bringing to the table, it just, expands exponentially. And
it makes your life, so much easier, you know. When I first got into Tram Corporation . . .
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: you know, in my backyard. And I got in there I got one really small project in
there. Which I did really well. I mean, when your, it's you're, you know, initial project
with somebody. And it's a big company, you really wanna do a great job. So, I did a really
good job for them. And, they brought me back for another project. Which was the same size
as my first project.
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: And then they brought me back for a bigger project. And then one of the guys I'd
worked with went to a different division. And now, he pulled me into that division to
do work with him. And then that division ultimately split into two companies. And then I started
doing work there. I mean, I, what happened is that one $8,000 project within a few years,
grew to a half a million dollars. Now, that's not bad.
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: But that, and there was no market, I mean there was literally no sales in there.
Because they kept referring me to other people in the organization. And once you're a trusted
resource, people like to know about it, so.
Brian: Yeah. And you talked about that before, and I think a lot of people who don't have
experience in sales. And haven't done the research to get the experience in sales. And,
I find it, I mean, you said that you didn't have any experience in sales. And you're trying
to sell this business that you had. And you went and got a job at Xerox so you could learn
it.
Jill: Yeah.
Brian: And, one of my, more recent favorite books, and I read it, again and again. Is
the Midas Touch with Donald Trump and Robert Kiyosaki. And, Robert, and they both talk
about MLM, probably, I don't know, five or six times throughout the book. Of saying it's
great sales training. Like, regardless of what you're doing, it's just great sales training.
And, Robert Kiyosaki did the same thing, is that he went and got a job. I can't remember
who his original one, but that's what he did. He needed sales training so he just went and
got a sales job. And I think it was copiers, I can't remember what it was.
Brian: It was, it was Xerox.
Jill: I think he was at Xerox too. I mean we were knocking on doors, you know.
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: I mean, we had no customers and we had to go out and knock, knock, knock. Hi this
is Jill Konrath and I'm a Xerox representative, may I talk to the person who makes copier
decisions. And that was life, for years.
Brian: Yeah. And . . .
Jill: But I'll tell you, it teaches you. You know, how to do it.
Brian: And you can apply that anywhere. And that's what we were talking about it a little
bit before the interview. Is that, you know, sales of a product, or a service, but also,
you know, dating. And it's that message of communicating, you know, communicating value,
and working with the person. And then again, one of my favorite quotes, and I think it
was actually in your, The New Rules of Selling, which was on your site. But, simplify the
complexity that drives into a screeching halt. And . . .
Brian: you know, the thing that prevents them from moving forward and a lot of people struggle
with even getting that first meeting because their too, they wanna go for the whole company.
They don't, you know, see the value in just going for one small subsection of it like
you did with 3M and, I think multiple other things.
Jill: Right.
Brian: What would you say to someone whos having trouble getting those first meetings?
And how can they get over the fear of salespeople?
Jill: How can they get over the fear of salespeople? You mean the fear of selling?
Brian: Well, no, how can the salesperson overcome their prospects fear of salespeople?
Jill: Oh, okay, that, okay. I think the biggest thing that I encourage people to do at first
is to call themselves up and leave themselves a message. And, to listen to the message as
if, they were on the other end of the phone.
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: The first time I did that I was appalled. That, what it was, I was struggling to get
in. I, you know, I used to be really good at prospecting and then somehow the game changed
as people were, you know, voicemail and technology and they were blocking me from getting in.
And suddenly nobody was returning my calls, you know. And everything was going to voicemail
and I was emailing people and nobody was getting back to me. And I was like, what the heck
just happened . . .
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: here? And, at first I thought it was personal and they were rejecting me. And then
I started talking to other people and realizing that everybody was having a problem now. And,
so, I actually stopped for almost a year. And said, okay, this is a real seed change
in the market. What does it take for people to actually get somebody engaged in a conversation?
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: Especially when it's somebody that they don't know. You know, or don't' have a referral.
How can you setup a meeting with somebody when they don't know you, don't wanna talk
to you, don't have any, you know, desire to talk. You know, what does it take? And so
I went through a process of experimentation and refining and studying the marketplace
and what was working. And literally came up with a way that worked. But, knowing I did
a test on myself, I found that I would have deleted myself right away. And, it was awful.
My first message I left myself, you know, by phone, was 60 seconds long. And, I had
no idea it was 60 seconds long until I started listening to it. And I was like, oh my God,
this is horrible. This is so horrible. I'm so bored. And had to listen to it a couple
times cause the first time, your voice tonality . . .
Brian: Right.
Jill: sets you off, you know. You just, you're not used to hearing yourself. But the second
time I listened it as really as if I was the prospect and knowing it was too long. So the
second time I called myself back, and I left a different message. No, I left the same message
but I talked faster. And I got it down to 45 seconds. But it was like I was an auctioneer.
And that didn't' work either. So then I went oh my goodness, I'm gonna have to cut some
of this stuff. So, anyway, I chopped, chop, chop, and I really had to get rid of everything.
I realized that the sole purpose of a phone message, or an email message is just for somebody
to say, oh, that's interesting.
Brian: Right.
Jill: Oh, that's interesting. I'd like to learn more. Its not to sell in the message,
it's not to convince in the message. It's to peak curiosity, and to get somebody to
go, oh, that's interesting. That's the whole purpose of email and voicemail, is to get
that response. Which mean, you don't tell everything. So that's . . .
Brian: Right.
Jill: where you go from the complex I gotta stuff all this in this little message that
I have. And say, I don't' have to stuff it all in. I'm probably gonna have to try to
reach this person eight times.
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: You know, through phone or email because they don't return my calls. So I can spread
it out over time. And I can tell them stuff when we meet. All I care about is that they
agree to meet. So, what is it that I have that's really interesting that might get them
to say, oh, yeah, I'd like to learn more. That's all our messages is about.
Brian: Right, and there was, when I was in school, there was, it was called an elevator
pitch competition. And they made a fake elevator, and everybody had to go in and you had 60
seconds to pitch. And they actually had business people come in and stand next to you and you
gotta crowd out on you, you've got judges. Like, I mean, it was nerve racking. And, you
know, the process is, you walk into an elevator, and you see someone that you wanna talk to,
and you have 60 seconds to talk to them. Now, you know, in that context, you were expected
to pitch, you know. Like, you didn't have to strike up a conversation and be like, oh
you're going to floor above me, isn't that where so and so is located. You know . . .
Jill: Yeah.
Brian: and a lot of people, they, I think they get anxious, they get fearful, and they
feel like there's this, you know, this weight on their shoulders. So they have this timer,
and they jump right into selling and pitching. When really, they need to build the relationship
because then people will pull them back in.
Jill: Right.
Brian: And you know, it's, a lot of it, I mean, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it's
you know, anecdotal right, you started off. You're not necessarily, I mean, granted on
the phone it's different. You are actually trying to peak interest about a business issue.
But, if you bump into someone at Starbucks and find out, or know that their the CEO of
a large company. You have to build the relationship first. You know, you can't just say, oh well,
here's my card. So, you say, you talk a lot about, you know, it's about discussing business
issues. And not pitching, you wanna help people. You know, after you've gotten that initial,
you've peaked their interest. And you've gotten in front them. Now you wanna discuss business
issues, not, you know, sale, not talk about your product and pitch.
Jill: Right. Never, yeah.
Brian: So, I mean, what is the, you know, I guess sales, in the bad word, it's like,
saying the thing that's gonna convince them to purchase. But, what's the value of listening
as a part of the sales process?
Jill: Well, value of listening is crucial. But I would say that theres something that
comes before listening, that most people don't understand. Because, you're brain is only
capable of doing one thing at a time. And that literally, research is showing that your
brain is not capable of two functionalities. It literally it switches back and forth. So,
what happens if your talking to somebody and trying to listen, and they, they're talking,
you can either pay attention to them. And listen, and hear what their saying, of you're
gonna be thinking of your next question.
Brian: Yep.
Jill: Right? Now, you can't think of that next question and hear what their saying . . .
Brian: Right.
Jill: at the same time. So, while you're thinking of what theyre, or what to ask next, or what
to say next, you've switched them off.
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: So, the reality of it is, the questions come before, the listening. And what most
people don't understand is that the, theres a crucial need to plan their questions before
they go into a meeting.
Brian: Yep.
Jill: And to plan maybe eight to ten questions, that they can ask this person. And these will
be questions may be based on research that they've done about the this person, or this
company. To find out about certain things. You know, that are relevant to what their
selling.
Brian: Right.
Jill: But, if you have the questions down, it's not like you're gonna interview that
person like, you know, like a check list. You know, tell me this, then, what, you know,
what college did you go to, check, check, check. And . . .
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: it's really function, it's a conversation guild for yourself.
Brian: Yep.
Jill: That you have so that you can have a conversation. And then when you, if you get
stuck, you can always look down, to find your next question. But it's there for you. But
what that does, is it frees you to actually listen.
Brian: Right.
Jill: So the questions come first. And should always be thought of ahead of time. I'll tell
ya a funny secret. I learned that real early on. Because I was, when I was in highschool,
I wanted guys to like me. And I wanted to go out on dates. Okay, so, and in Seventeen
Magazine, they said, heres the secret to girls. Girls, heres the secret to dating. Just ask
guys questions. Just ask guys questions. They love to talk, and so when I was in highschool,
and a guy would ask me out. I would, you know, look at what he was involved in. Oh, he's
a band guy, oh he's a, you know, soccer. And then I would, I would actually create my list
of ten questions in high school. Because I was kinda nerdy and I was like, terrified.
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: Or, terrified, I was kinda like, terrified of a sales call. You know, you're terrified.
So, I go, I created my list of ten questions, and I'd keep em in my purse when we were on
the date. And, I'd study my questions ahead of time so normally I could keep things going.
But then like if we'd be on the date and I'd get stuck, I'd say, oh excuse me. I have to
go to the bathroom. And I'd get to the bathroom and I'd look at my list of ten questions.
Isn't that stupid? But, that's how I learned that questions worked. And at the end of the
date, here's what happened, the guys would say to me, oh, it's been so fun to talk with
you. And you know what, they didn't know anything about me.
Brian: Yep.
Jill: But they'd say, we should do it again. You know . . .
Brian: And that's one of the other people that I interviewed was talking about, you
know, we talked a little bit about this before. About commercial sales is like courting a
woman. And the same is true for women. I think.
Jill: Yes, and it's stupid.
Brian: And, you ask the questions and it feels like, even if the persons listening 90% of
the time. And you're talking, it's still feels like it's a conversation then. And you really
enjoyed it.
Jill: They really enjoyed it. They like working with you and, you know, it's like, it just
creates a relationship.
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: But, honest to goodness, the questions drive it.
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: Because you can't listen intently without it. Now you can always ask other second and
third level questions based on what you've learned in the conversation.
Brian: Right.
Jill: But, you need to have a good base of questions to go into ask people, that you
can ask, you know, a lot of times.
Brian: Yeah. And, a lot of those questions are based off of research. You know, research
before the action conversation. And you mentioned, you know, it's not like you're interviewing
someone. Which, it's, you know, my mentor, who helped me, you know, learn how to interview,
was talking about her first ever interview. And, she had a list of like two pages of questions,
and was. You know . . .
Jill: Yes.
Brian: so worried about the next question, and like reading it off. There's that side
of things . . .
Brian: and then there's one of, or, a good book that I really like is, Questions Are
The Answers by Allen Peds. And in that he talks, I mean, the whole book is about five
questions. And his questions are very rigid. They work kind of for anyone. But, this actually
is my next question, when you have those questions and when someone, you know, shares that need
with you, right. You ask a question, they tell you their need, they start to explain
it and you're listening, and for all intents and purposes, you know, they expose their
neck. They say, well we have issues with this. You, how do you align with someone's, you
know, business need without seeming to, you know, be jumping on their neck and kind of,
you know, poking at a wound. Like, someone says, well we really have issues with this.
How do you address that without saying, well that's what we do?
Jill: It's easy. Okay, so, say it, let's role play a little, okay. You say it, pretend you're
somebody that has a problem.
Brian: Well, I just can't find the time to go out and find a virtual assistant for managing
my email. It's just too difficult.
Jill: Really. What kind of problem are you having with it.
Brian: Well, it's more of just a time. I mean, I know that I need to do it, and I am having
trouble finding the time to commit to it and then train that person.
Jill: Well, let me just see if I understand this. What is not getting done today because
you don't have this virtual assistant?
Brian: Well, because I don't have the time for freed up from not managing my email, I'm
not doing other processes related to the business.
Jill: Like, such as, what? I mean, are these important projects that are not getting done?
Brian: Absolutely.
Jill: Like.
Brian: Posting content, managing interviews, and having wonderful conversations with people
like Jill Konrath.
Jill: And these are all things that have the opp, have the, can really build your business
and take it to the next level.
Brian: Absolutely.
Jill: Right?
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: So, if you had these things in place, and you were able to do these things. Do you
think you'd be much further ahead today then you are right now?
Brian: Absolutely.
Jill: Okay, what, I'm gonna stop right now. And I wanna show you what I'm trying to do.
I'm trying to understand your problem more.
Brian: Okay.
Jill: And help understand, and help you understand what's not happening, because you're not doing
what you said you should be doing.
Brian: Right. But if you . . .
Jill: Now, I . . .
Brian: If you go down that path, at what point do you, start talking solutions?
Jill: I really think you don't jump in right away. But, you leave that first meeting and
say, you know, I've got some ideas for you. I wanna crystallize them and think about it.
And, can we get back and talk about it next Tuesday?
Brian: Yep.
Jill: And the reason I, and I could say. I could even say to you, you know, Brian, we
do work in this area. I'm not sure if it's right for you. So, I pull back.
Brian: Right.
Jill: And take it away, so I reduce the tension. But that's something, you know, we do a lot
of work with virtual assistants. I'm not sure if it's right for you. I wanna take a look
at what you said and see if I can, you know, figure some things out. Can we get together
next Tuesday morning?
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: And talk about it because I'll bring some ideas for you. Because, a virtual assistant
might not be the best thing but I've got some things that might be of interest. So, I am
not going in again.
Brian: Right.
Jill: I'm pulling back and inviting you, to come toward me.
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: You know, and I, and it. But you know what, that's what we like as human beings.
We hate when people tell us how to do things. You know, so, the fact that we can not jump
on every opportunity, we can sit back and we can ask more questions to understand it.
And we can find out, the relative priority of that opportunity.
Brian: Yep.
Jill: Because what you say that hiring that virtual assistant, you can't find the time.
I mean, the reality of it is, it's costing you and preventing you from achieving your
ultimate goals.
Brian: Right.
Jill: And it's a small investment of time for you to get somebody up to speed compared
to what you could be doing with that time to achieve your ultimate goals. But, if I
just went, oh my God, Brian, that's the stupidest thing I ever heard. You know, you need to
just get a virtual assistant right away. And, you know, and then you would immediately put
your barriers up, right.
Brian: Yeah, absolutely.
Jill: So, it's about being slower. And it's about building a relationship, because now
when I come back, you know I'll have thought about it. You'll be in a whole different position,
you will have a second chance, to have a conversation with me.
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: And, we will deepen our relationship and you will trust me more. That I'm not here
as a one hit wonder trying to sell you something and then rush to my next prospect.
Brian: Right.
Jill: You know, we will build the relationship.
Brian: Yeah, and you, I mean, you talk about it again and again in terms of adding value
and asking those questions and building relationships. And . . .
Jill: Right.
Brian: I think in MLM, you know, a lot of people, they jump into this sale and they,
you know, they don't. The idea of scheduling a second meeting with a proposal, even, you
know, you have a Multi-level Marketing product, you go to the website and buy it. The idea
of drafting something for someone to see, or, you know, coming up with this is how things
are gonna be implemented. I mean a proposal in the sense that it is.
Jill: Exactly, it . . .
Brian: I mean, it doesn't . . .
Jill: you've got to do that, yeah.
Brian: Yeah, it doesn't really exist, but and you kind of, you know, addressed it before,
of the, people are in their status quo. And that's what they're used to. Even if they
know that they don't like, it.
Jill: Right.
Brian: And they're upset by it and it's costing them money. They're still, this is what they're
used to. And they look at all of the, you know, the positives of moving. But, they also
look more so at the negatives of moving. Of how it's gonna change. I had this conversation
a little while ago with someone about an electric car. You know, they look at the negatives
of the electric car, even though theres all these positives that overweight them. But
they see the negatives only. So, you know, I mean, you talk a lot about it. About moving
that, but I guess, one of the questions, I was excited to ask you about is, you had a
background in teaching. And, you talk about building relationships and communicating.
But how, you know, how have your abilities as a teacher supported that, the listening
skills. And the skills as a sales person, because of it.
Jill: Well I discovered that as a teacher I was most effective when my students were
engaged. You know, I mean, seriously when I, I mean, I could sit up in front and teach.
And I was looking at all these, you know, bored heads, you know. With their fingers,
you know, and I didn't like that. I just, I wanted an environment where people were
a part of it. And there was, you know, a conversation. And they were engaged and so I literally discovered,
it's a good thing I wrote my questions out in high school for the dates. Because I became
good at asking questions. But, I discovered that if I had a lesson plan for the day, then
if I could create eight to ten good questions around that lesson . . .
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: I could get them talking. And when theyre talking, it's sticking in their brain better.
And, you know, so, had did that role into teach, or into selling? It was like, questions
drive everything. And most people think, you know, it's about building the relationship.
Well questions build the relationship.
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: It's the questions that, you know, that allow you to listen. And to listen well. It's
the questions that are behind everything.
Brian: So, what are, and I just cause I'm curious. What are some of your favorite kind
of general works everywhere questions, just to ask. Like if you bump into someone at Starbucks
or you wanna build a relationship, airport, whatever. What are like, some of your just
favorite questions?
Jill: Well, I mean, certainly because I work with the salesforce I'll always ask about,
you know, sales orientation. You know, what are the, I'll ask what are the biggest challenges
your sales organization is facing?
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: But, you know, that's a general question.
Brian: Right.
Jill: And, because I work specifically on new client acquisition, right now, I'll be
saying, well, you know, most the companies I'm working with. And this is more of a complex
question, because it's deemed it up with my knowledge, which I think is important to not
just ask, you know, tell me what keeps you up at night. But to have a very specific thing.
I, and I might say, well most the companies I work with are really struggling with new
clients acquisition, how do you get more prospects in your pipeline? How big of an issue is that
with your organization?
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: And it, I mean, theres a lot of things in that question. First of all, I've shown
my expertise, that I . . .
Brian: Right.
Jill: worked around people similar to them. You know, most the companies I work with are
struggling with this issue. And then, I don't even ask if it is an issue, I ask how big
of an issue it is.
Brian: Right. And that, I mean, psychologically thats brilliant. Because, I mean, most people
kind of, I guess gloss over that. And they think, you know, oh I don't wanna tread and
assume that that's an issue. But, I mean, it really is.
Jill: I know it is.
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: It is an issue. It is an issue and so for me to say, I know it's an issue and then
say, how big of an issue is it with you guys.
Brian: Right
Jill: Well, for some companies it's a huge issue. And other companies it's not. If it's
not an issue and they got more clients coming out of their ears than, you know. And their
growing at leaps and bounds I'm probably not the best person to work with them anyway,
right. You know what I mean. Somebody that will scale for their growth.
Brian: Right. But you still didn't, you still didn't push and you still didn't pitch. And
do you're still a bright and energetic person. So, you know, the relationship may, you know,
you can still build that. And if it ever does become an issue they're like, oh, we've know
Jill forever.
Jill: Right. And, are they, may move to a different company and, you never know what
things change. And the key is that you want to be a resource to them. So, I might not
be the right person. I mean, you know, theres some people that are, in the commodities business
and they really struggle with selling like salt, or you know. Something that they can
buy anywhere.
Brian: Right.
Jill: And they have a whole, they have a negotiation issues, they have, you know, commoditization
issues. That's not my area of expertise, but I know some really good people in that area.
Brian: Yep.
Jill: And I could say, you know, are you familiar with so and so? You know, he is really good
in this area. And he's got an online newsletter and some information I think your sales team
would really find helpful. And then I'm just a good resource.
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: Again, I'm building a relationship. I'm not at their throat. And it works better.
Brian: Yeah, and you offer value and then they offer value to you. And I think with
MLM, a lot of people, even people who come from successful sales careers. Or, you know,
even the people who come from other relationship oriented business that are not Multi-level
Marketing. You know, some may start like that and then kind of get lost. And, of the forgetting
that it's about relationships. Forgetting that you know, if you do it right, the majority
of your customers come from your customers.
Jill: That's right.
Brian: And so, you know, I always like to, and kind of wrapping up. But, with an actionable
item that people can work on today. And so, you know, assuming that most of the people
listening to this are going to be in Multi-level Marketing, and most of them probably won't
love sales. What is, you know, the first step that they can take? Kind of taking it from
your own book of, starting to being that love affair with sales.
Jill: Well, honestly, we, one thing we were talking about so much today that I'd say was
a really good thing for most people is to focus on the questions. Because it takes the
pressure off of them. If they can ask the good questions, it relieves them from the
pitch. And it gets the conversation going. So if they can stop and think, what would
be some really good questions that I can ask the people that I'm talking with. You know,
and then think about having that interview. And I'll expand on that one more time. I'll
share one more tidbit of advice on the question. Because I so believe in the power of the question.
The average person asks a question . . .
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: And, can't handle silence after the question. So, the average person will take
two and a half to three seconds of quiet time and then jump in. Like, if I'd say to you,
so tell me Brian, what are the biggest challenges in your business today?
Brian: Right. And then I explain, yeah.
Jill: Okay, you heard me, I was silent for two seconds, and . . .
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: I'll do it again. What are the biggest challenges in your business today? Um, you
know, that was . . .
Brian: Yeah.
Jill: And I'll say it again, and I'm jumping in right away because I can't stand the silence.
But, the truth of the matter is, if you're asking good questions, it can take eight to
ten seconds for somebody to come up with a really good answer. So one of the things I
had to train myself to do early on, so I wouldn't just become a question machine, you know,
filling in the questions for my own angst.
Brian: Right.
Jill: Is I used to find myself to count to ten, silently. So, I'd say, so Brian, tell
me what are your biggest challenges?
Brian: Well, I mean, you know, and, I'm drawing a blank.
Jill: See, you, at this point. Look what just happened. You can't stand the silence so you
start telling me.
Brian: Right.
Jill: You give you a little chance to formulate your thinking . . .
Brian: Right.
Jill: and then you fill it. And I'm just sitting silently waiting. And so, listening means
sitting with silence.
Brian: Right.
Jill: It means, counting to ten. It means planning the questions ahead of time so that
you can do it. And by the way, when you do all that, you're developing the relationship.
Not forcefully, but very graciously and genuinely because it's all focused them. And the pressure
is off of you, to pitch. You're learning . . .
Brian: Right.
Jill: what matters to them. Which will enable you to tie it together, afterwards. But, it's
focused on your prospect first.
Brian: Yeah, and you can act with them as a person, you know, and then a prospect. Kind
of, you know, you have that . . .
Jill: Yes.
Brian: relationship so you know they're there, their kids names, and, what they love to do.
And, you can connect with them as a human being. Because, yes, it's about business,
and yes, you're coming into their business to sale something. But, that doesn't mean
that they're not a person and that they don't, you know, get up in the morning. And you know,
hate waking up early, whatever it may be. Is . . .
Jill: Yeah.
Brian: they have this relationship. So, yeah, I mean, thank you so much. And I have your
book here. And I actually, it's on my shelf of the read on regular basis. I have my bookshelf,
which is rather large. And then I have my read on a regular rotation bookshelf. And,
I'm gonna put links below to your website as well as your book, Snap Selling. Where
you can get two free chapters, it's one of those things where it's a very smart move
to offer two free chapters. Because when you read the first two chapters it's. You're hooked,
I mean, it's so useful. And it's, the thing that I love about it, just cause of the way
I work. Is that it's process oriented. And, it makes it so that you're not afraid of the
unknowns, it's not a theoretical thing. It really is process oriented. So that you can
learn how to develop those questions and go through it. So that you know what's coming.
And, it, I think it takes away some of the fear. So, thank you so much for coming on
and sharing your advice. And, I look forward to sharing more of your info.
Jill: Nice job, thanks much.