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- Hello, Michel Thomazeau. - Hello.
- You are Cubical Drift's boss. - Yes
- Which is currently kickstarting its game Planets Cube. - Yes.
- Could you introduce your studio, the game's concept ?
- Let's begin with the studio.
We are a small team composed of 8 persons, across Europe
as two of our members live in London, in Finland, and a Corsican.
Programmers started working on the project a year and a half ago.
But we really made something concrete when we found the artists, last summer.
So we started about 7 months ago.
About Plantes Cube, it's an RPG based on a voxel universe.
Voxel, for those who don't know, what is it ?
It's all those universes made of small cubes.
We can quote Minecraft.
I'm not afraid to say this, if Minecraft didn't exist we surely wouldn't have made Planets Cube.
We really want to bring this scenaristic dimension to a voxel universe.
It was our biggest fear since we got this idea, that somebody make it before us.
So when I say "scenaristic dimension", it's a real RPG with texts and quests.
It's not only : "go there and kill a monster".
For example, consider it as a Skyrim-like.
We don't have the same ressources so it won't be the same, equally advanced.
But it's the same concept.
- You quoted Minecraft and Skyrim.
Can you tell us about your influences, your inspirations for Planets Cube ?
- Yes absolutely, we are great fans of all those space universes.
Star Wars, Star Trek... - I think here we are all.
We didn't build our game depending on what we liked.
We started from a technical idea which was to create a coherent voxel universe.
Today, voxel universes generally are infinitely filled up world.
Often they are incoherent with a desert next to snow.
And we thought, what could we do to create a coherent universe ?
And when you think about it, not for a long time,
the idea of plantes come immediately, it's where we live.
We thought, how are we going to make the planets ? Let's make round ones.
But no, it doesn't work, round planet, gravity, with cubes it cannot work.
So we got this dimension of cubical planet.
And from here we developed all the ideas we had,
whether it be the scenario aspect or the features.
- Ok.
- So the influences, Minecraft obviously, Skyrim.
Personally, I'm a big fan of RPG. I think I've played every old-school RPG.
We also have a lot of adventure games fans, MMO too.
I won't quote them as we all know them.
You will recognise, I think, a lot of other games in ours.
With a lot of innovations, obviously, because copy games isn't interesting.
- Talking of Minecraft's influence, since the game was released,
a lot of "clones" were inspired by it, or even copied it.
Don't you fear to be accused of plagiarism ?
- No, I don't think this notion exist with video games.
If one starts talking about plagiarism in video games, there's no more video games.
Not to mention Minecraft, long ago some games were called Doom-like.
If one had said that Duke Nukem couldn't be released because it "plagiarised" Doom,
What would we be doing ? Every racing games, builders, RPG look alike.
There's no plagiarism, what we need to do is find some distinctions.
What do we bring compared to Minecraft ?
This question didn't even come up.
When we made our voxel based game, we thought : we don't want one meter blocks
because it's impossible to build something with it, for example.
And it's not because we wanted to look different from Minecraft, it's just because...
We've played Minecraft, about tens or hundreds hours.
But it wasn't enough for us. What can we do to change it ?
We make 25 centimeters blocks. But even this wasn't enough for us.
What else can we do ? We're going to make blocks with different shapes.
That's it for the construction apsect.
But we didn't want to release a sandbox game.
Sandbox is not bad.
But I have a lot of friends who didn't play Minecraft because it's a sandbox.
- They want a goal. - Exactly.
And it's really not my king of games, even if I've played Minecraft a lot.
We thought, we absolutely must add a story, a notion of evolution.
And then the other ideas are developed :
How do we make the craft ? How do we move in the world ?
How do we generate the landscape ? Etcetcetc...
Today, I think one cannot say the game is a clone of Minecraft.
Some still forget, to those people, I tell them, read the Kickstarter page before telling me it's a clone of Minecraft.
Because all the ones who read it didn't say it again.
You talk of a scenario to distinguish it from a sandbox game. That's it.
Is there a real utility or is it only here to distinguish it ?
Well I think a lot of people will play Planets Cube
and who won't think about the voxel universe, the construction.
Once again see it as a Skyrim with the possibility to change the world.
Skyrim with advanced craft.
Wasn't there some craft in Skyrim ? - More customised.
That's it, more customised.
We have this ambition to allow gamers to integrate their own 3D models.
We're talking about features which will added in several months, or even several years.
The scenaristic aspect isn't used just as an excuse, it's the game.
We are going to propose a complete story, of which you can see the beginning in the trailer,
some sort of space odyssey where...
I'm thinking while talking because I definitely don't want to unveil the story.
As an RPG fan I perfectly know that... - Spoil is not cool.
Spoil is not cool, to use Frecnh words.
No really the story is not an excuse to say "this game isn't like Minecraft".
Planets Cube is an RPG, and it happens that it's based on voxels.
But you'll also find in our game about every features that can be found in Minecraft.
That's what's also interesting with voxels, people are used to them.
So why would we do without it as we have a whole world made of voxel ?
The main gameplay feature is the construction from voxel.
If you forget the scenaristic aspect, it well be as in Minecraft.
There will be a story mode, where gamers can build if they want to but it won't useful for the scenario.
Even if we want that some quests request : a NPC asks you to build a house or a vehicule.
But it won't have an important part. But you will have a creative mode, as in Minecraft,
without scenario, gamers really do what they want.
Our game offers something more because we have small blocks and most of all we have planets.
I can't wait to see gamers build their own planets, their own stories.
I'm afraid that gamers make a better game than ours. Even if it would be fantastic.
- The student outshines his master. - It would be fantastic.
During the creation process, we can see that we use blocks with different shapes, to make more precise things, real forms.
We wondered, those blocks, do we have to craft them or will we pick them up already formed ?
The whole world is made of blocks, that you will be able to pick up.
They will turn into small pile of material.
Because if you try to pick up every different blocks, and that you put them in your inventory, it will be huge.
So we decided, for example, that every dirt blocks will turn into small ground pile.
And those small dirt pile, either you place them choosing the shape of the block or you use it as raw material to create something else.
Well clay may not be very useful. But imagine, I don't know, one uses gravel
with water to make a breeze block. So you'll have this small breeze block pile, and you'll be able to place a breeze block.
You can use everything within your range as long as you have the right tool level or the appropriate tool.
But you'll be able to use a lot of new materials which are not natural, that you'll create on your own.
I use the example of the breeze block but there's a lot more. Breeze block is good as it's something we've never seen in other games.
- In the trailer we can see the creation of a bike, of a vehicule. - Yes.
- Will every vehicule have a defined appearance ? With some parts that the gamer can modify.
Or will the gamer be able to fully choose the appearance of his bike ?
- That's it. For a start there's a huge challenge, I tried to make a bike, I failed.
Because it's really hard to create vehicules with those blocks.
And our graphist who's in charge the 3D really loved it.
because he spent two weeks creating the bikes you can see in the trailer.
By dint of test, change the shape...It's really...
Well it was also the first time he used those blocks.
After it he was a little faster when he made the screenshot of the trees and the planets. It didn't took him as much time.
The aim of the game, it's that you'll use control blocks.
In the trailer you can see the wheels. Well in the trailer you don't see them.
You can see wheels but mostly on the page, there's a concept art with he wheels.
We'll give the gamer control blocks,
they will have precise functionnalities, you cannot modify them.
They have a certain size, a certain utility.
And then, around those control blocks, you build your
own bike, car or whatever you want.
You absolutely can make a Star Wars spaceship with wheels. It will be your total liberty.
In the game, some characters will propose you pre-built vehicles.
As we know that it won't be easy to understand how it works.
So the bikes from the trailer, on the Kickstarter page or on our website will be available.
A spaceship will also be available to make it easier,
but I think that every fans of Lego, Minecraft, because
Lego fans played Minecraft,
all these fans of construction will surely buy the fisrt vehicle,
but they build themselves the others.
Yep, here's the difference.
So the perspective was, because there are other games which offer to create vehicles,
we told ourselves that we did't want an interface external to the game.
How can we have vehicles directly in the game ? So we think about it.
And it's been quite hard, you don't find these solutions rapidly.
And finally, control blocks and the gamer who creates his vehicle with any materials he wants.
On the other hand there will be rules to respect.
Physics. If you build a rock bike, maybe it won't go very fast.
So here's what could be fun.
- You talked of other games which offered to create vehicles and elements of the game.
It's a type of game, since Minecraft's release... - That's it, it's really since Minecraft.
- ...a type of game very popular in the indie world.
Aren't you afraid to be drown into the abundance of this type of games ?
I think there's enough space for everyone in video games.
I don't know the exact statistics but I'm sure that there's more than 200 millions gamers in the world.
200 millions gamers, I'm sure there's people who can be interested in Planets Cube.
Looking at the Kickstarter page I already know there are people interested in the game.
What we really need to do is to find something...
I would have redone Cube World, Minecraft, Stonehearth, a strategy game but still with voxel,
I think I would have lost.
But as long as we keep a different artistic style,
as we different features, we have the right to be here.
I'm not afraid my game get drown.
I think that everyone has its room in the indie video game.
If we make good job, we're sure to succeed. - Yes.
- Furthermore we have nice ideas so...
But I'm not very objective.
I mostly want to say that since Minecraft was released,
there's a real expectation from the gamers, and I am a part of it, that's why I say it.
Some people tell us "I would love if it was in Minecraft...".
We've read a lot of blogs, discussions about Minecraft and even about the other games.
When Cube World was released we've read a lot about it, idem for Stonehearth.
And every time we thought "Oh yeah it's great, it's Minecraft with this feature..."
And that's actually what we do, we answer to an expectation.
We have a very specific and coherent universe with this story of planets, space, etc...
And...I can't remember what I was saying...
Live's surprises !
What we need to do is to find nice ideas and differentiate ourself
and mostly answer gamers'expectations.
We thought : if we make a voxel based RPG we'll succeed.
And I do know that there's a real expectation for the scenaristic aspect with a voxel universe.
And that's why we started this adventure.
We thought : if we make a voxel based RPG we'll succeed.
- As it's an RPG, there must be NPCs. - Yes.
The Job Masters.
- Job Masters, "les maîtres de métiers" even if doesn't sound as cool in French.
- Could you tell a little more about them ?
Will they correspond to an interface, will we meet them in a hub, will we have to make them come ?
- That's it, consider it as in "Secret of Mana", I almost couldn't remember the name,
by the way Watts comes from "Secret of Mana".
At one point you'll find the blacksmith who will accompany you all along your adventure
to upgrade your weapons. It's going to be the same.
At one point during your adventure the scenario will take you to meet those characters
and as you'll complete quest for them, as you'll progress in the scenario,
the blacksmith will become a blacksmith :
"Oh I forgot to tell you but I'm a skilled blacksmith and I can learn you some stuff."
And the same thing will happen with almost every NPCs.
Well maybe not all of them because some will be out of the scenario,
as they are some bonus NPCs.
Useless to progress in the adventure but useful for some fun things to do.
You will evolve with the Job Masters.
You will evolve with them, or they will evolve with you, it depends on how you see it.
But without them, everything's relative, you cannot progress in the scenario,
at one point, they will be the one to give you what's necessary to progress in the scenario.
- Ok. So these NPCs will allow us to cretae our items to progress in the sorty ?
- Exactly.
- About the items creation, we can see in the trailer the creation of a sword.
There are several models for the handle, the blade, the hilt and there's a "Custom" button.
Does it mean that we will be able to create our own models,
or that there will be several models pre-made among which we will choose ?
- I think the craft interface is the thing that required us in terms of design the longest time.
Think about it. It seems to me, it's the fifth version that you see in trailer.
You have to know, at the begining we wanted to draw the shapes of weapons as with Paint, but...
It's really complicated to make something which is user-friendly,
which makes you want to use it, and different from what already exists.
But our priority was to :
Propose to the gamers the possibility to import their models without using the code.
So that's why there's this small square "Custom".
Not only for modders.
Yes, exactly, not only for modders even if designed for the ones used to 3D software.
But you can make your own shape of blade, as in the trailer,
and then insert it, share it...You'll also have to set the settings.
We're still too early in the development to talk about all these features.
The aim is that gamers really can customise their tools, their items
through the different forms offered by the game.
As you saw in the trailer, an item isn't made of only one part, there are several sub-sections
Every sub-section can have a different shape and use different material.
According to the shape and the material the item will have different statistics.
The statistics are quite simple but I think it can be pleasant.
A gamer who loved FFVII and who absolutely wants Cloud's sword
or even Arthas'sword. You can imagine a lot of things and I'm sure
that we'll see eccentric creations.
It's our role to define limits, to compel rules to import
to avoid absurd creations. Too far-fetched.
As it's an RPG, will we be limited to bladed weapons or will be able to do whatever we want ?
In the trailer, there's a tab "Firearm".
Actually we're making an RPG but not in a medieval-fantasy universe.
It's a universe where I start from zero and I go wherever I want
as long as it's explainable with technology.
Not technology from 2013, but from year 5000. things we didn't discover yet.
If one wants to build a lightsaber, I'm sure it will be possible to do it in Planets Cube.
A whole panel of tools and weapons will be useable in the game.
There will be weapons, armors to become invisible, stuff inspired form Sci-Fi,
because, as I said it earlier, there are SF fans in the team.
What's also great about Kickstarter is that we have a community already getting bigger
and it will be a real pleasure to hear every crazy ideas about SF to create weapons etc...
No, not only medieval-fantasy. - Well, thank you !
- By the way you won't magic in the game.
As I told you everything will be based on technology.
You won't have the ability to shoot fireballs with your hand.
however you can still invent a weapon to shoot plasma balls.
You can imagine anything you want on this point.
- We can make weapons but can we make armors the way we want ?
Will we have the possibility to use colors, shapes thaht we want to our armors ?
- Actually what we propose for weapons can be applied to the whole game.
We propose a version of the game, the players can propose an alternative version.
We are going to propose you a set of armors already made
with some existing material or colors.
It's mostly materials which will define colors.
If you want, I don't know, a pink armor.
You would look great in pink !
A pink armor, you would have to imagine, maybe it will exist, you would have to imagine a pink material
that you could find in nature or mix etc...
and use it as a component for an armor.
I want to say, here creation only depends on gamers.
Once again we have to correctly set constraints to make it work.
About vehicules, an important feature of the game,
as they allow gamers to move on the planet and even between planets,
will we have the possibility to use them with other players ?
For example, to build a big cargo ship to take all of your buddies on the other side.
Originally this was exactly our idea and I think that it won't change.
I say "originally" and "I think" because all of these features aren't developed yet
and it can still change along the development.
But yeah, at the beginning, when we had this idea about vehicules, we thought, it would be great
to be with 4 other players, as in Borderlands.
You play with 4 friends, you build your vehicule with them.
One handles driving, one uses the turret, another one
throws rock behind. You can imagine a lot of things.
It looks like Mario Kart, I was thinking about it.
But for example you could make a spaceship, as in Star Wars,
Falcon... - Millenium.
- I cannot forget it ! - Millenium Falcon.
- That's it, Millenium Falcon, where one would steer and some guys to use the turrets.
It would be possible.
But then, is it sure to be done, I cannot guarantee anything today mais it's really what we'd like to do.
This multiplayer aspect where you build a vehicule and you are several inside it et you all really use it.
- Start a new game with a few friends, pick up some rocks, build a spaceship and fly to another planet...
It's a great dream !
Still about the vehicules, would they run on some sort of energy ?
Well we asked ourself this question. We have a crazy one in the team,
who would like to make everything as in real life :
you would have to inflate the tyres, fill up the fuel tank, deal with wear of the tires...
But we thought, if it happens on the planet,
if our vehicule breaks down, it's ok.
You get out of your vehicule and you pick up what you need to repair it.
But if you're in your spaceship and it breaks down in space, what do you do ?
So we'll deal some of this elements but not all of them.
For example, he proposed that a spaceship cannot take off until
the cockpit is totally closed.
This way we could imagine an air leak inside the spaceship.
Sure, but if we do it the player won't have fun. Yeah it gets unplayable.
I think that with the adventure mode, the story mode, the player won't have to worry about raw materials.
But we decided to make a "hardcore" mode.
Not hardcore meaning "you die it's over". Hardcore meaning that you'll have to manage these issues.
Realist mode ? That's it, rather realist.
In story mode I think you won't have to handle a fuel tank etc...
I think, you just set the control blocks and even if it's aburd, the vehicule will work.
When you design something you have to know where to stop so the game remains enjoyable to play.
About character creation and equipment...I restart.
It's an RPG so I suppose there will be classes.
Do you choose in the beginning or does it depend on the weapons and armours currently equiped ?
There's no class in Planets Cube.
I had a lot of questions like this during interviews or even on the Kickstarter page.
There's no class in Planets Cube, you play the way you want.
If you want to play as a thief, you have to equip a leather armour and daggers
and then to go try to backstab a monster if you get killed that's too bad for you.
But there is no thief class to give you a special ability as invisibility.
The same way, there's no warrior class to give the ability to, I don't know...
...to taunt, as in WoW.
No it won't exist.
You'll play as a warrior because you'll be wearing a big heavy armour,
a big two-handed sword and that you'll be noisy while walking.
But you'll have the possibility to choose your avatar in the beginning.
But it's only the appearance.
Here you can really compare it to Minecraft.
There's no class, everything comes from the equipment.
Obviously a weapon can use several action buttons.
You can imagine a rifle throwing grenades or a zoom etc...
But you won't have spells as in other RPGs.
Yeah, as it's based on technology it seems logical.
It's based on technology, and we mostly want to do something simple,
and give players the possibility to play the game the way they want.
To make it easy to play, it's not our objective to make a hard game.
Except for the hardcore mode, but we'll see it later.
The interest is the possibility to move to other planets. Yes.
To be able to leave the starting planet so we can visit others, create new ones...
Is the univers generated randomly ?
Or will you create planets to spread them ?
We've changed a lot when we designed this part.
In the beginning we wanted everything to be infinite and generated randomely,
while keeping this basic outline for the scenario.
We told ourselves , we cannot do that, because if we do it, the 8 planets of the scenario will be great.
And all the others won't be good at all.
We're going to make one, two and then we'll be bored.
So we thought no, Race to Space, the first opus, we restrain ourself to a solar system.
It won't be very nice, it will be invisible fences or asteroids...we don't know yet.
And we restrain ourselves to this solar system.
We're going to "customise" every planets.
The planet that you see in the trailer, it's really what we would like to do.
On this day, planets are randomly created, procedurally.
It doesn't suit a game with a story.
We could compare it with Diablo.
In Diablo, some elements are fixed, always there.
And then some corridors go from here to here.
We don't have corridors because we are in 3D, but it's the same principle.
Surely there's a global aspect of the planet taht we'll try to keep.
But when you look closer, when you zoom in the planets, details
can be generated randomly and in some places we'll set
the level 1 dungeon, level 2 dungeon, a NPC etc...
We'll "place" those elements on the planet.
Everything won't be generated randomly, a great part will be hand-mand.
By the way, I'm sure when players will create their planets will do the same.
But in the second opus, which is a long way off as won't be released before 4 or 5 years,
here we have this ambition to open this solar system and to really go on a journey,
we break the frontiers and everything will be infinite.
Why 4 or 5 years ? Because if we do it, I want it to be done properly.
And we didn't find yet how to make it pleasant to move between planets.
So this story about moving between solar systems will always be present,
but there's always this question about
What do we do with the planets completely random ?
- These planets are divided into several zones,
and when you get closer to the center, you're supposed to gain levels. - Exactly.
- Could you tell us about it ?
- We want the player to evolve in our game, it's an RPG, you have to evolve.
How do we "force" the player not to go kill the end boss right when he arrives on the planet ?
We found this notion of zones. Indeed as you can see on the schemas,
there's a cut out planet and there are 19 zones, if I'm not wrong, on the planet.
It may change, we'll see how sections evolve in the planet.
The player will be forced to progress according to the evolution between zones.
Roughly, rocks will have a level,
and players won't be able to pick a level 3 rock if he doesn't have a level 3 tool.
- Ok. - Monsters in the level 3 zone,
will also be level 3.
So the player can try to go as far as he wants,
there's a moment he's bound to be stuck. Either because of rocks that he cannot dig,
or because of monsters who will slay him.
We wanted to integrate some sort of linear evolution...
Well it's not really linear, as you saw it, zones 1, 2, 3 don't follow a strict order.
We are in a 3D environment so it's hard to have a linear cut.
But actually it's fixed. Monsters won't progress at the same time as you,
level 1 zone will remain level 1.
Finally it is to be found in a lot of RPGs.
And personally I like it to stay like this.
As a result it's a level progression based on zones.
But then every zone will have a climate, a different atmosphere,
is it going to be caves, jungles ?
Maybe not every zone will have its own atmosphere,
but it's clear that on the surface, as we have coherent creations,
desert will be at the equator,
snow-covered poles will really be at Norht and South poles.
There will be different climates.
And we'll try to reflect, surface is easy because we have the desert,
forests, a lot of landscapes which steep us in the atmosphere.
Inside the caves it will be a little harder,
we'll try to keep anyway a notion of different atmoshpere inside the caves.
First it will be made through rocks which will have a different colour but me must absolutely
find how to avoid monotony inside the caves, and we didn't find it yet.
So that it's not always the same thing.
The underground world is here to help us to do this.
Well, thank you !
Thank you for doing this interview it was a pleausre.
Thank you for the interview, it was nice of you to receive us, to answer our questions.
No problem.
The Kickstarter started recently ? There are 22 days left ?
22 days left at this time and it's doing well.
It could be better but it could be worse.
Hope it will end.
I hope so. We're waiting for it !
And thank you once again.
Thanks to you.