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Michael Moss is the public surprise winning investigative reporter at The
New York Times he is the author of The New York Times bestselling book
sugar salt fat how the food giant's
hooked us Michael really a pleasure to talk to you and there's just so much
in your book that I was a very interested in and I i picked out a few
things that I think might be interesting to focus on today
wondering to talk about is when
companies like Kraft and and a lot of these other players that were very
familiar with the processed food
industry started to see study after study
linking the a sugar salt and fat laden foods
clearly to obesity how did they react
wanted him to be the largest companies there are actually a surprise me
come also insiders who became
increasingly alarmed not just from like a social
hollow CT standpoint but also just from
euro losing the public trust and
early on my research for the book came across this extraordinary meeting
way back in 1999 debut
insiders brought together the CEO's assemble largest manufacturers in North
America
to talk about none up there had been a
the emerging ok the city diabetes
so true epidemic on and be stood up
book for the CEOs and made this incredible pitch
is senior official grow up gets up in armed with a 114 slides
leahy's out there he responsibility for the obesity crisis and
even links there rooms with several cancers
and pleads with them to do the right thing by consumers
and what was the reaction to that pleading
your from his perspective been beating wasn't under bill your
I mean he even went so far as to warn them about their lawyers who went after
big tobacco
was just a matter of if but when they were gonna come out to her big
food with the same anymore your nuts but there're opec's
from over consumption in salt sugar about the
industries or reliance on these ingredients has contributed to the rapid
ever
and the borders will calm asked about it nothing else to recover so the public's
help your cause
a social but the city the CEO's reacted defensively
settler we already offer consumers a choice we have in the grocery store
products
versions of Armenian line products or low-fat low-sugar
have added grains we do not respond to consumers but we're also peephole
shareholder we must keep our prices low we must make our group peace D
in order to cell product on I terrifically a reaction that says
while we may understand the connection between our products and the disease is
you're talking about
we also have a responsibility to shareholders
which pushes back against the social responsibility you're talking about I
mean is that not essentially what what that answer means
you're going to the bench with you all good certain amount of denial when
where invited companies expect I'm a former president
a coca-cola for North America South America or party or parties but if you
look michael
you know anybody would use now out there selling for a cure it doing what you
call
karmic debt for the twenty years he will book of course there is worsening let me
look while
know where you're going you saw a big company in your dated doing battle with
competitors and their is probably
you're just not seeing the big picture not wanting to see the big picture so
probably be company the employees are
ewbal empires intentionally setting out to to get a
overweight or other words you're their companies doing what companies do which
is because much money as possible for so long as much product
talk a little bit about the Bliss point in the book salt sugar fat: you talk
about the Bliss point and I think that that's a concept that would be
interesting to our audience
I was released on dat be amount
science are big baller engineering that goes into creating a group blue
pointed hard with the mister came up with to describe a perfect formula
sweetness group that would send
are over the moon guarantee the highest payrolls preparar
a legend in the industry news Howard mock restrained in high right now
experimental psychology at Harvard walking to his recent creation going to
sort of labor for doctor prepper
a 20 shareebook Blue Point Piper picked a report violation is very rich 61
dipper formulation suite no it or just
slightly different than the other subjective those two
rebound in consumer is chose through the data into his computer and it is hiring
batter
regression analysis panel came up but very perfect formula
that while laws and guarantee the company yes
and when you say when I say outside the idea noticing the same was passing about
sure is that we don't have it endless desire for sugar
anybody who drinks coffee in like since we can do the experiment but so just
keep out in church we get the cord
really like it keep adding more and intervention your goes dark
this is all so the Blues point typically uses
is calculated the deed is on a truck looks like a bell shaped her
wrote the very talk book over her but too little about
you much is the perfect the router shirts weeds
so before we talk a little about the implications of that kind of
food engineering the other fascinating thing in the book a of many
is your salt story write this story about will when you look at the back up
a can of soup or whatever it is
I'm always shocked by the amount of sodium that has and I say why couldn't
they just make the same product
but just put less salt in it it'll be healthier and will people really miss it
if it's
salty and not incredibly salty but you actually
add know about why that doesn't work I had the exact same question the answer
is basically be or more hooked
on salt band we you are into
demonstrate that or meet some largest companies
crop Campbell Soup and especially pro-law
made for me so move there I Kong's with how
salt out I went to battle creek michigan
research and development headquarters a hell or
and storage he's doing so these icons with their people and I have been so it
was most god awful experience over how
we started with the cheez-its crackers which normally agree
all day long be is we couldn't you can swallow the stock to the room for her
mouth without salt
they lacked textures solubility the pros on wall balls were even worse we pop
them in the toaster became
looking in tasting like straw I and their
clincher was big cornflakes
couldn't you know what was occurring the ball is a no contest before can't say
anything
that she spokeswoman for the company got this look ok a *** on her face
and she swallowed and blur upward Metall
am etal she eighties metal
and the chief scientist is sitting there going to jail without one of the
beauties of salt for us is that it will mask
summer the of notes that bad flavors that can creep into song
food processor so that's not really the source if this Michael which is
in in everyday cooking if you're using kinda whole
ingredients you don't need salt to cover
the fact that the ingredients have been processed is that what really why the
salt is there it's not too bad as a preservative as we often hear
where welcome back BBQ perseverance the other thing that it's incredibly useful
to tour that where you quote for you so you don't need it was up to seven
refrigerated for two months at a time
I talked to a mi maker pressures will be low sodium salt in their products as a
why the global work because we make or need for the deli counter
not be no not the grocery store I'll so
it as a you know seven-day-a-week life span yet so
yeah preservative the other big no credible grilling thing about salt
the industry's W though cost 10 cents a pound
they can use it to ok or using more costly ingredients like fresh herbs and
spices
last thing and we don't have too much time here which I'm and pictures to get
your take on as
have using have has the consumption of these processed foods which have so much
salt in these
a finely tuned bliss points have sugar
has this kind of change the standard of people's palates and how normal food is
judged such that it's completely skewing our perception of what food is
oh absolutely and scientists even within the food industry or or longer up the
way
for example sweetness has become as migrated through the grocery store
out of the desert I'll through the rest of the store
and is teaching kids to expect sweetness an almost
everything greta is now sweet you know
yogurt can have as much sugar in it was ice cream
pasta sauces can have equal whatever Oreo
cookies and a half cup serving our also sauce
and that surfaced specially with sugar but also proud in Salt River
big sense which the processed food industry has helped shape our desire for
in our expectation her large amounts of these three ingredients as poor
issue that the public health system star-struck work bro
well the book once again is sugar salt that how the food giants hooked us
we've been speaking with the books of their Michael Maas really great to have
you on fascinating I encourage our audience the check out the book