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BARACK OBAMA: And that's why I stand here as
confident as I have ever been, that the state of our Union
is strong.
Thank you.
God bless you.
God bless the United States of America.
[CHEERS AND APPLAUSE]
KATIE COURIC: And you've been watching President Obama
deliver his final State of the Union address, his second term.
And I think it was an incredibly emotional and impassioned
speech.
Of course he had a laundry list of things he covered initially,
talking about the need to face this transformative change
that we are dealing with in almost
every arena of American life, not by looking inward,
but by embracing it.
I almost felt like it was a riff on, we have nothing to fear
but fear itself.
The first part, he had an opportunity to talk about some
of his accomplishments, to revel in some of those,
like clean energy, and the Affordable Care
Act, the killing of Osama bin Laden even,
and urged a more measured approach towards ISIS,
kind of downplaying their power on the world stage.
He called them basically, sort of a ragtag
group of twisted souls plotting in apartments or garages.
And while he said they must stop,
he said they do not threaten our national existence.
But certainly the strongest and most powerful part
of this State of the Union was the last,
I guess, 10 minutes, when he really did, as Anita, you
predicted, talked about the values
and who we are as Americans.
And I'm just curious as I rattle on, how
you felt about this speech and what struck you, Matt Bai.
MATT BAI: You know, a few things stood out to me, Katie.
One is, and you alluded to it, more saber rattling than we're
used to from this president, and a very spirited case
for his keeping the country safe.
He did not like to talk about the bin Laden killing
during his reelection campaign.
He was very forthright about it tonight and a little swaggering
about it.
I noticed a few changes in the traditional format, which
I thought were very welcome, no shout
outs to the people in the balcony, right?
The State of the Union is strong coming at the end, rather than
the beginning.
I thought some shaking up of what
was basically a tired format.
And finally, what I thought was a very remarkable, almost
apology from a president for whom that doesn't come easily,
and who promised unity back in 2008, saying,
you know, I underlined the passage saying,
"it is one of the few regrets of my presidency,
that the rancor and suspicion between the parties
has gotten worse instead of better.
There's no doubt a president with the gifts of Lincoln
or Roosevelt might have been-- might have better bridged
the divide."
You know, essentially saying, I bear
my share of the responsibility-- which
I think he does-- but I think it probably
goes a long way with some voters to hear him say, you know,
I could have done this better.
I don't think it's something you hear every day.
KATIE COURIC: Anita?
ANITA DUNN: Well, I thought the-- I agree with you.
I thought the final 10 minutes of the speech
were very personal, starting with the section where
he starts addressing the politics, the civil discourse.
And people will look at it and they'll
say, oh, he's sending a message to Donald Trump.
Whatever.
But, Katie, I was really struck by a place,
he went off script right at the end,
where he was doing his riff about, what
makes me hopeful about our future,
because of you, I believe of you, was the prepared text.
And what he said was, I believe in change,
because I believe in you.
KATIE COURIC: I noticed that, too.
I noticed that it hearkens back to his 2008 campaign.
ANITA DUNN: It hearkens back very much
to this idea, hope and change.
And you know, he used change at the beginning of the speech
as well, but I felt that that was his basic saying
to the nation, I still believe.
I still believe we can do these things.
I still believe we can come together.
And that it was a very optimistic end to the speech.
KATIE COURIC: And Ramesh, obviously he
was addressing Congress, but he even said,
I'm talking to the American people
as well, when he really implored them
to be less divisive in their rhetoric
and in Congress, to be more cooperative and to compromise.
He said, "Democracy grinds to a halt
without a willingness to compromise,
but when even basic facts are contested
and we listen only to those who agree with us,
our public life withers when only the most extreme voices
get attention."
To me, that was really an assault, or an affront,
to the extreme voices in our country
that are really dominating the political discourse.
RAMESH PONNURU: You know, I think
it wasn't a traditional State of the Union
speech in the sense of having the laundry list of proposals.
And the reason for that is what he
said at the end, that the political process has
kind of ground to a halt. And that shaped everything he did.
And what you ended up with I think,
is a speech with an almost valedictory tone, where
it's a kind of summing up, this is what I've achieved,
and other people have to carry it forward,
which is interesting since he's got more than a year left
of his presidency.
And it was almost a farewell address.
KATIE COURIC: But what did you think about him talking about,
sort of that our political system is broken?
Do you agree with that?
RAMESH PONNURU: Well, I think that it
is refreshing for the president to bear--
to acknowledge that he has some responsibility for that.
But then you start bringing up these reforms that don't really
have much to do with solving this problem.
Look, the country-- there are deep divisions
in this country that are not going
to be solved by some kind of vaguely gestured
at redistricting reform.
And so you've identified a problem and then the solutions
that he's advocating just don't approach it in scale.
KATIE COURIC: Do you agree with that?
MATT BAI: Yeah, there was an amount
of vagueness that ran through several parts of the speech.
That was one section I thought where--
KATIE COURIC: Well, like when he mentioned campaign finance
reform.
I mean, how realistic is that?
MATT BAI: Well, and he mentioned strengthening social security
and Medicaid, but did not take a side
in what is a very significant debate over how you do that,
obviously.
-Within his own party.
MATT BAI: Within his own party.
So there's a vagueness.
And I guess there always is in the State of the Union.
But you know, I think in that section,
really I think the policy, the prescriptive piece of it,
was clearly not the thing that was mainly on his mind.
What was mainly on his mind was addressing the cultural divide
in the country.
And you could argue that's not what a State of the Union
is for and it's not particularly helpful to address that
without having solutions.
But I think, as you say, Ramesh, you know,
it's-- there was an acknowledgment in this speech,
a tacit acknowledgement that in the final year of his
presidency he is not likely to get a lot of big new
initiatives off the ground.
KATIE COURIC: And while he did take some responsibility
for the political rancor, he certainly said it's not his job
and his job alone.
He said, "There are a whole lot of folks
in this chamber who would like to see more cooperation
and more elevated debate in Washington,
but feel trapped by the demands of getting elected.
I know.
You've told me."
I mean, I've heard similar sentiments
from Republicans on Capitol Hill, who are also frustrated.
MATT BAI: That was remarkable when he said, he said,
I know you don't like raising money.
I know you're not happy being caught.
And you could see the faces in the Chamber of people,
you know, a little sheepish, because we all know it,
we all hear them say it.
RAMESH PONNURU: Yeah, I mean, probably
the worst feature of our campaign finance system
is the amount of time that it requires of politicians
to raise the money that they're not spending, thinking
about policies, meeting with their actual constituents
and so forth.
And I think that is a very widely shared sentiment.
KATIE COURIC: Well, why can't anything be done about that?
Is it because Citizens United and the Supreme Court
has basically said, this is the law of the land
and we can't change it?
RAMESH PONNURU: There's a disagreement
about the solutions.
There's a pretty deep disagreement
about the solutions.
A lot of people on the right would
say, deregulate this system and make it easier to raise money.
And a lot of people on the left would say,
let's have a more public funding based approach.
ANITA DUNN: I think one of-- and going
to the-- what happens with political fundraising--
and I think it's, in many ways, it
is the worst part of it-- it's not just the amount of time,
it's the amount of time the politicians basically
spend talking to people who have the wherewithal
to give huge amounts of money.
And it just skews the policy priorities
because if all you're talking about
are people who think there are a certain set of issues that
are important, and you don't spend as much time talking
with people who don't have the money,
then you just are going to have a different outlook,
and it's not because you're a bad person,
and it's not because you're corrupt.
RAMESH PONNURU: It's because everybody you talk to
is that way.
ANITA DUNN: Exactly.
And I-- and Katie, you know, it's interesting.
And Ramesh is right because, you know,
there are certainly people in the Democratic Party who
would like to see pure public financing, who would like
to see free television, you know,
who would like to see something similar to maybe
what you have in Great Britain, which is a shorter
period of time and a lot more kind of public support for it.
But then there is an equally good argument
about transparency and about making
it easier for people to raise money
and about having the kind of transparency where people
know where it comes from immediately.
And they can make their judgments
about why people are giving that kind of money.
MATT BAI: I would argue that we are
seeing a kind of transformational campaign
finance reform, not through any act of Congress,
but through the diminutive power of television ads
which have driven the cost of campaigns
for decades, which are becoming clearly,
as we see in this cycle, less and less influential.
But I think what we undervalue and don't talk about enough,
is what happens in a society where people are less
institutionally focused, generally where there are not
hardcore party activists in the local party
like they were generations ago, and where
a smaller, a dwindling number of hard core party activists
are the loudest and the most controlling
groups in the primary system.
I think we are getting party processes that
are dominated by extremists and giving the American public
choices with which they're not satisfied.
And I think that's as big a problem, if not bigger,
than what you see in the influence.
KATIE COURIC: Meanwhile, Neha Gahndi,
I know that obviously this is the beginning
of President Obama really talking about his legacy.
I mean this is as he faces one more year in office.
And I know that you did a survey with some of your folks
at Refinery29 and some of your users.
And they overwhelmingly-- we have
to point out that you have a more liberal constituency
yourself on your site-- but they overwhelmingly,
millennial female millennials, really
seem to support President Obama by a wide margin.
Tell us about that survey.
NEHA GAHNDI: Absolutely.
75% of our users are saying that they
have a favorable view of the President and 80% of them
are saying that they think he's doing a passable or good job.
But I actually think that there probably
is going to be a little bit of a disappoint-- they are going
to experience a little bit of disappointment
in reacting to this particular speech.
I think that it was sort of built up
as being a moment of hope, a moment of return
to inspiration, and of specifics about talking about the future.
And it was incredibly vague.
It didn't really touch on a lot of the issues
that matter to this generation, to younger voters.
KATIE COURIC: What do you think some of the issues-- what would
you have liked to hear more about?
Reproductive rights, for example?
NEHA GAHNDI: Absolutely.
Reproductive rights.
But even when he was talking about the economy, which
he opened with, he had a moment where he
talked about community college.
But I think that this generation actually
needs a lot more than that.
The economy is 100% at the top of their minds
because they are living paycheck to paycheck for the most part.
20% of them are living below the poverty line.
They're saddled with student loans and those debts.
And they're having a hard time.
And they need more than just a two year college plan.
KATIE COURIC: So do you feel like there's
a disconnect between what the President was saying
about the economy doing much better than others
would have you believe and the perspective
of many millennials?
NEHA GAHNDI: I think that many millennials are not feeling it
because they're also-- I mean, they have more college
degrees than any generation before them,
but their starting salaries are lower.
The amount of money that they're making
has been diminishing since the year 2000.
They're not-- they're having a hard time.
And I think that college is one thing, lowering debt is great,
but I think that what's happening in the economy
and in the workplace goes beyond what the President talked
about tonight.
KATIE COURIC: And in fact, Ramesh,
if the economy is so strong, why don't more Americans
feel that way?
RAMESH PONNURU: That's right.
And that's another tension that I think underlay
the entire speech, which is that, you know,
I think there are objective indicators that the economy is
doing pretty well.
But a lot of people don't feel it.
I think a lot of it is that wages have not been going up.
So people aren't feeling it in their paychecks.
And so he can't do a "happy days are here again"
kind of message that'll actually resonate with people.
ANITA DUNN: I think that, in many ways,
that is-- this is the defining issue of the 2016
presidential campaign, which is, who
can really tell people what comes next
and how we get there?
Because in addition to the financial crisis--
and the President alluded to this in his speech--
we were also undergoing one of our periodic transformations
in our economy through technology,
through some other things, which resulted in,
you know, obviously, a global economy,
very different than what existed in 2009 when
the president took office.
And there are a lot of people who look around and they see,
Borders has gone, Radio Shack has gone, they wonder,
am I going to be gone?
Is there a place for me in this new economy?
And I think that the political party and the candidate who
can answer that question, where is your place
and how are we going to make sure you have it,
is the party that wins.
MATT BAI: I mean, it's interesting, Katie.
If you go back to Bill Clinton's last State
of the Union in 2000, the very first paragraph
of that speech, the onset of the age of globalization,
he's really the first president in the age of globalization,
making the case for his legacy.
And he says almost verbatim, "we are in a period of history
where we have never had so much prosperity or so much social
progress or so little internal crisis or so
few external threats."
KATIE COURIC: Meanwhile, Bridget Coyne
manages partnerships for government and elections
at Twitter.
And she's been monitoring the Twitter verse all night long.
And Bridget, I know you're here to tell us
the three big trending topics that you
saw on Twitter during the State of the Union address.
What were they?
BRIDGET COYNE: Hi, Katie.
Thanks for having me.
The number one tweeted about topic was foreign affairs.
And that shouldn't be a surprise based
on a big part of what's happening in the world
right now.
The second most tweeted about topic
was the energy and the econom-- and the environment.
Again, not a surprise based on the World Affairs
and things that are important in this election cycle.
And the third one is the economy.
And that of course is what we see from many of the candidates
as well.
KATIE COURIC: And what were the three biggest moments
during the State of the Union that-- where Twitter
kind of imploded, if you will?
BRIDGET COYNE: The number one tweeted about moment
was at the conclusion of the president's last State
of the Union address, when he said
he is confident that this is-- the State of the Union
is strong.
And that's not a surprise because that's
when people are ready to turn to their phones
and tweet their reaction.
And the second most tweeted about moment
was about the influence of money in politics.
And I think that's already been a big campaign topic.
So again, not a surprise, but interesting to see that
as one of the many big topics.
And the third most tweeted about moment was about Guantanamo Bay
and how important that was for him to close it
at the end of his year in office,
and how that was wasteful spending,
and how that was going to be a recruitment
tool for our enemies.
Again, connecting back to the foreign affairs
being a very popular topic on Twitter.
KATIE COURIC: And what candidates
were mentioned most frequently on Twitter tonight
while the President was speaking?
BRIDGET COYNE: I don't think this is a surprise,
but Donald Trump was very popular on Twitter.
He jumped into the conversation late in the State of the Union
speech, made his own comments about how he felt,
what was happening.
Second to him, we saw Hillary Clinton live tweeting.
And she was gaining followers at rapid rate.
And third was Bernie Sanders.
That second most tweeted about moment
is one that he talks about often on the campaign trail.
So perhaps people are following him
as a result of that same topic.
KATIE COURIC: All right.
Bridget Coyne at Twitter.
Bridget, thanks so much for the update.
We really appreciate it.
BRIDGET COYNE: Thanks so much.
KATIE COURIC: Meanwhile, I wanted to ask Neha,
because I know we were talking about millenials
and looking ahead to the campaign.
I know that Rock the Vote and USA Today did a survey,
and it showed that Bernie Sanders had much more support
among millennials than Hillary Clinton.
And I'm just curious about people
that you're talking to on Refinery29
and what you're finding about support for Secretary Clinton.
NEHA GAHNDI: I think that we see--
we see support going in both directions.
That poll by Rock the Vote and USA Today did
have Senator Sanders about nine points ahead I think.
And we see that-- I mean I think the interesting thing
about this generation of voters is that they're not really
identifying against party lines.
They're not saying, I'm a Republican.
I'm voting this way.
Or I'm a Democrat.
I'm voting for this candidate.
They're really interested in values.
And like I was saying earlier, they
want to think about the economy.
And Bernie Sanders has been talking to them
about the economy.
He's been talking to them about tax cuts
and how he is going to be putting money in their pockets
since the start of his campaign.
I think Secretary Clinton has been focusing
on a variety of other issues that are also important,
but she hasn't been hitting the economy piece quite as hard.
And that is a big piece of what's impacting
their sway in his direction.
KATIE COURIC: And looking ahead at the democratic race, Matt,
I mean there was a New York Times CBS poll that
was pretty significant tonight.
Tell us about that.
MATT BAI: Yeah.
I think that was the poll.
That's a national poll, right?
This is the one we were talking about earlier.
KATIE COURIC: Yes.
MATT BAI: Which shows the gap closing--
it's inside of 10 points.
Right?
What is it?
I think it's--
-Seven, I think it was.
-It's 48.
KATIE COURIC: Yeah.
MATT BAI: You know, which I think is less significant.
And Anita and I were talking about this earlier.
I think it's less significant than some of the state polls.
Look, that--
I'm going to plead guilty as charged
to the people on Twitter and the readers who've
written in the last several weeks and said,
you keep talking about Trump and the Republican race.
Why aren't you talking about Bernie Sanders
and the Democrats?
I think the flurry of polls this week--
and I'll probably write about it this week--
but it indicates that there is a significantly interesting kind
of momentum to that race that has gotten underplayed
because I think the Republican race has been such a carnival.
KATIE COURIC: And in Iowa and New Hampshire, right?
MATT BAI: It's clear that Bernie Sanders could conceivably
win both of those states.
It's clear that Hillary Clinton's debate performance--
and whatever that was October, and where she got a big bump--
that that was temporary.
And that is a very competitive and very fluid race for her.
KATIE COURIC: How worrisome, Anita, is it
if Hillary Clinton does in fact lose in Iowa and New Hampshire?
ANITA DUNN: I think the Clinton campaign has always
been very realistic about the idea
that these first two states were going
to be, we're going to be tough, and would end up
being very competitive.
And certainly, Hillary Clinton is a person
who's never going to take Iowa for granted or New Hampshire
for that matter.
You know, it's a long race, and I
think that in the Democratic Party, as Matt well knows,
you know, you've got two strings.
You have a kind of establishment candidate,
and then you always have the candidate who's not
the establishment candidate.
And it tends to be pretty close in the early states.
So I would suspect that the next couple of weeks
in New Hampshire and Iowa are going to be really hand to hand
and that maybe the Democratic race but
will be able to break through the Republican race a little.
KATIE COURIC: Yeah.
They'll get a little more attention.
ANITA DUNN: A little more attention.
MATT BAI: And they're connected.
They're actually connected because New Hampshire is
a lot about independent voters.
And those voters have to make a choice.
Do they vote in the Democratic or the Republican?
[INTERPOSING VOICES] That's going to make a difference.
RAMESH PONNURU: [INAUDIBLE] white, right?
I mean, Iowa and New Hampshire Democrats are very white.
And she, Hillary, has got both the geographic and a
demographic firewall.
At least, that's what we're going
to be hearing from the Hillary camp
if she loses Iowa and New Hampshire.
KATIE COURIC: And in closing, tell us
what your thoughts are, Ramesh, on the Republican field.
Is Donald Trump--- now I saw that he was pulling ahead quite
significantly in Iowa, last I saw, and he's still--
RAMESH PONNURU: And he's staying ahead in New Hampshire.
KATIE COURIC: Staying ahead in New Hampshire.
So what's your view on this?
Is he here to stay?
And do you think he'll get the nomination?
RAMESH PONNURU: I don't believe he's
going to get the nomination in the end.
I think that he's got a ceiling that
means that, as the race gets winnowed down,
it is harder and harder for him to actually win.
But he has defied all the expectations
and maybe it's true that he is going
to expand the universe of people who show up and vote.
Usually you bet against that, but every once
in a while it's one of those things--
things are true until they're not.
MATT BAI: Well said.
KATIE COURIC: All right.
Well, on that note, Ramesh Ponnuru, Anita Dunn,
Neha Gahndi, and Matt Bai, my friend Matt Bai,
here from Yahoo.
Thank you all so much.
This was really fun.
Thank you for coming up from Washington.
And--
ANITA DUNN: Thank you for having us.
KATIE COURIC: Thank you, really, it
was an interesting conversation.
And we also-- always look forward
to hearing what you have to say.
So tweet me @katiecouric and use the #yahoolive.
And let us all know what your thoughts are
about the election, the campaign that's going on right now,
or about President Obama's final State of the Union.
Thanks for watching.
We'll see you next time.