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mindset
uh... now they have a great history as rishi please professor modern arab
studies at columbia
zero c professor khalidi thank you so much for joining us on the outskirts it
supporters above first let's talk about my mood bosses
campaign at the united nations uh... for all of those at home can you explain
exactly
it what it was that he was asking for
lee was asking
unilaterally admission to accept uh...
the state of part-time as a full member of of the united nations which involved
uh... effectively general hidden after security council to pass on that which
requires a majority of nine vote of no people by a permanent member
after which is two-thirds majority of the general assembly would have to
voters separated out before he's
they're getting a
anytime statehood without going through the security council
uh... roa country can be accepted
head eight non-member state observer
in the united nations american felt korea west germany have had and other
countries that had that status until they were accepted as member states
uh... that i can still have that that
stan who had made sense to pursue that
either
their place of this
what i think one of the things at the the popular attractive signal
withdrawing to the security council
word that they are fed up with this delusion the payment faces an
even-handed the broker are honest broker or a mediator
often do you have any of their they're furious agreement date for a letting
them know that not only over the last couple of years but
program obama has been in office did really going back for a period of twenty
years george that great
has brokered a mediation process which is what will matter we were situation
for the palestinians on almost every level skills presley sasu
confesses
that i'm rather surprise the policies have that reaction i'm shocked that they
still believe in the u_s_ at all as a fair mediate well there are
unfortunately people in the proper leadership of our local
have harbored battling the most popular apartment cured of it long ago
and uh... our are they would like to be tough element they would like to keep
people would like to feed
serious negotiations but they have woken ceased to believe
uh... in the d_n_a_ they could do that i i walked those allusion twenty years ago
when i was in advisor back in the early nineties the negotiations that sort of
madrid it was clear
the connected to the even harder and positions on probation from israeli
compelled to what's the point therefore bring them in
cell
successfully i want to see what's next right so what happened after obama's did
this
and what the reaction of the
uh... of the
you know united nations the security council centre and what happens after
that
well the first a look at the peak of the couple curable delaying this
i mean i think to arm-twisting with perhaps capable of ecpi pickup
preventing a majority vote
uh... they don't necessarily have to veto
ortega reading it i mean delaying it for weeks and weeks to prop him up
uh... procedurally in the security council i mean countries have been held
out of the uh... out of the united nations membership
are literally years and years and years
uh... soviet it's perfectly possible clinically too
either stonewalled procedure in the security council or
if forced initiatives forced to a vote
to manage to arm twisting and fell for it
to rally uh... another another states
such that the uh... the the the motion but not get them out and vote and they
were filled with people who have to uh...
but we would have to uh... veto without by extension
uh... seven members of the sticker to come for a quick torpedo this
sprite well hammerstein then it was possible to win on this since before
c_n_n_ seasonable with israel's
if you will literally be the most shocking thing
in week in covering politics that i would have seen in sixteen years if they
didn't he tell it was a so
uh... always say to you
and this is the point i'm i'm not getting in that's why i want to have
this comes as you would be a fuzzy
they were gonna at least
those general assembly did not state member status something
where there are on the border
and then it becomes some degree
of that an illegal occupation in the west bank
et cetera they could still deduct there's nothing
to prevent
uh... they're going to europe even if things are they're deadlocked on
security council or
uh... they failed to obtain the majority or the u_s_ rico they could still go to
security students from the start forces the original
and or or that this was the original plan all you know what i i i i don't
know i mean i haven't talked
today many people about the accountability word correctly involved
but what i gather is that the thing that drove this leadership which is element
or a truck with a cane for being willing to believe
what any normal rational person would not believe about the next eight between
the drove this leadership over the edge
would be arrogant
and the disturbing former of the american envoy headed by dennis ross who
went
to a lot to try to be swayed them from doing it
that seems to be much might lead to five o'clock
palm
dictates was
within the demeanor of these people with fell absolutely hoti and help them
that they've had you know forget about it we're simply going and then they'll
go for broken now not talking much about the substance of the users
that connect mississippi so obvious to me before
or how many decades have they told the policy is to pursue peaceful
undiplomatic uh... measures which
is exactly what i agreed with
and then when you pursue peaceful and diplomatic measures bases somehow you're
threatening them whipped by winds was so uh... michael my question waging a war
fare andy legitimizing israel that they don't use violent content and diplomatic
in legal bills
right
in and by the way here also pursuing a path that is exactly how israel became a
state first second iraq so i don't think there's any argument against that so
that but that's my question when
neck out outside world they say
all this is trying to delusion of my is israel whatever here in the u_s_a_ don't
even try telling what israel's against the silkair's
where he answered what support of a conversation uh...
but i'm curious what they see internally why do they tell it would be put the
u_s_ frustrations infertility
u_s_ administration or even israel says the palestinian negotiators are
leaderships how can they possibly have a rational argument against this
well i mean that i i i have no i have no idea what the with the people and for
the administration think might might get a few words to push me
is there a way of thinking about would seemed to me to be a domestic american
cal of the political calculation i don't think any little thing in the foreign
politics consequence with an opinion on this
seriously
uh... and to the gym that this is that this is an issue have to be decided on
america
uh... i'm sure they would deny that in public but
i don't think there's any other any other any other interpretation of it as
part of all the very frank is eventually be been the case pretty much the
paratroopers radovan exceptions but it's pretty much been the case synthetic
troop white subsets lino let's that
look at the other side of this equation and see what else is going to different
right through the so
for example there's this nonsense about not recognizing dictated the existence
of israel and i say
it's not as a steak is vitamins that make sense
uh... sebab recognized or not but that's what we're going to make an inquiry
but the p_r_i_ ordering that the forwarded a representative of the
palestinian
and the
the p_l_o_ in return recognizes that it is a *** up and uh...
salmo
for permanently
s a p_r_ perspective should
the palestinian leadership go up to the u_n_ in save look we would like to
recognize the state
and in return you know we've already done a but since israel warren knowledge
of the new u_s_ let me know that in return
we also
it kit you know give that
recognition that this it is really exist nothing there
alongside glendale on that deal part of prominent liberal after these are going
to go to make the bartlett said you have to redneck to specific definition of the
state of israel
which we have just divide in which we have just insisted on it
no israeli negotiator ever interested in the parking lot only recognized because
into the state of israel but recognize israel the jewish state until a few
years ago
so after the talks agreed to do what do you think that only demanded penetrated
the bar
uh... so it's not a matter of recognizing israel the preparatory
doormat one could argue that they were grossly mistaken in doing so without
demanding reciprocal recognition
of the right of population with helping people with the popping state within
determine frontiers i mean that's what my opinion should have been done way
back in the early nineties stimulates courses scraped armenians israel
insisting the base
be recognized that but at the same time
that we have this entire problem because
so will not allow palestine to exist
i think there is no
more ironic argument to be made in the world
it's stuff books i mean i know we're stuck in the situation bags but in
reality it you know
would even hurts even say
yes we right now
as israel is a joystick because it is a jewish state n_c_r_ new jersey so i'll
have into problems with that
when i was probably the twenty five percent of population are arabs
mhm and this is their home about they were there before most israeli jews
arrived there
there they were there for generation for centuries from one profit
certainly country
uh... empties say that israel the jewish state i mean
we don't
demand than anybody recognizes directly to the christian state or secular state
order at penn state one of the planet
uh... nobody normally does that
this is just of additional demand
intended first of all the say we have right here you have to accept our
national merit and those rights a preemptive over your right
i mean is israel will accept a our part of the homeland of the empire
palestinian people have to go back and read
butler speech to congress in may
because although outside evidently got all that israel
today at the marriott this is our homeland what do you think
we are hereby right you are hereby stop procure recognition
until the jewish state of this
and of this is our homeland the whole country oklahoma mean
basically are out of his right then you want interlopers here this is what
essentially the israeli demanded
for the palestinians in fact the becomes i_n_s_ complex we were wrong we never
should've obstructed included and try to take our country away from us what we
understood to be our country away from applicable we should all said yes you
have right let's back up and leave an anarchist sexually what's behind the
demand that only one people has
nikita unique right to this country the home and i i i never saw
electing our uh... any israeli leader say because a home run for both people
this is a related to the country
which is the the the the the birthplace for blah blah blah it's always we we had
a unique right in this country and i think that is really a problem but in
addition to the fact
that we would bathrooms will be asked to spell
there one point two million palestinian brother of the work
and destroyers
who are or some of the state of israel down the river
uh... they're second-class status would then be accepted and and legitimize by a
palestinian admission uh... that in fact they are second class to the terms of
the state of israel to jewish state they're not used reports about their
state
here doing a very hard for a coffee maker and biz now when i heard that
speech and then you know intended to u_s_ ties i was actually surprised
because even as star
uh... right wing is mad now is is radical issues when he said uh...
caressed israel meaning greater israel don't belong to render to provide highly
belongs to us and highly but that's basically saying we are going to occupy
you forever
and we're never going to let go that that's that's an they unbelievable
extremes
cmin so then that leaves the toughest question of all when you
by other side who says missus all you know we're never gonna give it to you
funding for p_r_ purposes we say we'll pretend we're in favor of negotiations
as we block it off at every turn
then my god what do you do
well but i think the proper would have to really regroup in recent allot i
think the strategy all their strategies of the past couple decades had
unproven bankrupt
negotiating
prone position of weakness under american law defeat with the elected
putting it big problem scales in favor of the already superior party
with a mistake
uh... what how much called resist until it ended up being
a mother things
uh... the killing of innocent civilians
and also uh... led to incredibly ferocious
israeli attacks which killed in the case to the attack on gaza in december and of
development in january cup nine killed
almost fourteen hundred palestinians almost all of the millions maybe under
two hundred of them
uh... actually fighters
in exchange for the death of thirteen israelis have been more than half of
those soldiers so
this without resistance instituted sewage pipe
it's it's if he does include war crimes and killing me stop there was war crimes
but killing a charge for them
is also in most cases the both come over the
imprinted in most cases work on it
boiler strategies in my view settle
bill charges i think hold out any hope is to appeal up for a much more broadly
based multilateral international intervention them out of the united
states for the palestinians to reunify the national movement before on the
national consensus
uh... adopt only non-violent means to reject
violently against israel it it's it's pollution suicidal
to use violence is interconnected
so extraordinarily strong and effective united by violence against it
uh... lamotrigine melodrama content on both of them that was systematic wild
for the occupation forces it's still the only way
state you know what
console iski
paraphrase as gandhi is saying we didn't use guns cause we didn't have guts
protected
and uh... and even issue
new idk if you don't
believe in a moral argument which you do an idea which is that violence is not
the way to go
it just doesn't make any sense logically to try to go up against israel through
violence you're gonna get crushed ends oral argument which i would accept
in most cases but there are currently located i don't think you could use a
lot about what it will not be quickly correct uh... looking than many other
cases it is the correct approach secondly
uh... there is the moral argument that if you engage in the kind of war against
israel that that had been has been in fact the case
much if not most of what's being done
end up
being really cripple the war crimes were actually people carrying out
and all you pick the term terrorism because i think it's fitter loaded term
but to becoming a sitting in for the most important is simply not acceptable
international
so there is real legal argument in addition to a lawyer anonymity or any
accompanying which is just dumb
it doesn't make sense
against buchanan did this people which has this history
such that implemented by suffering persecution
backpacks of that
uh... parts are simply going to cement that society which we seem to get into
getting it slowed the flow
at that link the that her st louis many israelis repeal any criticism of the
attack and that they are
the persecuting phone so forth but
it ultimately the way to go i think scolded
the and then that leaves the final question which is how xo you and i agree
non violence is down for the right answer if they try to diplomatic and
peaceful route through the u_n_ and that's been
block for now i'd be shocked at what you were saying that they were the
diplomatic approval question no question then
what else to do
how do they demonstrate in a nonviolent fashion
that is in any way effective whether to gather
public in in world attached to it just how do they
well one thing that i think the popular have to do a lot of considerable
ticketing people talk
or for that but
amfar
a little bit of a cold here
one of the things i think they have to do it to figure out a way to appeal to
israeli
i mean
the process of settlement and building uh... are basically the huge israeli
colonies all over the occupied west bank
picking me up
in the range of five to six hundred thousand settlers
is better-than-expected for israel for the israeli people and that the protest
of the last
several months
in tel aviv another israeli cities have shown
that the israeli public is conscious of the fact that they're really getting
shafted of the country with a high-growth great in the country than
incredibly prosperous
um... palm a treatment technique at the ecological class but where social taking
those being shredded by only a liberal
roof with a liberal uh... policies that will probably wasn't looking i was not
government back in the late ninety
and e connecting with that by
saying you know you you know whatever you think of off
your country's policies or one of the thing that impoverish is you do
it coolidge is a few a hundred thousand fabric at the expense of the other five
million israeli
by that name israeli jews in a couple looking inside israel are highly
disadvantaged
compared to everybody else but
even israeli jews are different
right so
i agree with that again uh...
shall that-that's against a great opportunity for them but i agree agree
so i'll let you have skills isn't obvious after at purple never really
tried
to properly appeal added to this country uh... or
or to to the israeli public
uh... they don't care to middling job appealing to other countries in the
world the third world or
or you're in europe but they don't know appallingly bad job in this country
uh... and and and in the in israel in over the two most important countries in
the pic which in fact
right you know i saw the story of these young uh...
clearance who
and get out of violent protests that one of the waltz earlier today when did a
little concert of mostar at the wall which as i was incredibly touching eyes
so i think the only answer i can come up with is
mass
protest by simply sitting at the wall where they're trying to build something
along the lines to show the world and then just video they have to get video
out there s the world and they don't give you the rest of world whatever
protest they did
did not exist
that got to break a barrier that
specifically in nine states and israel
and to the american than israeli media
and back on an easy thing to do i mean telling a story on non-violence
after a lot about the new york times and almost impossible
i mean uh... indeed an induction notice the recent coverage of
okie from bonner
the the new york times bureau chief in israel uh... recent story on him in the
columbia review panel as well
i mean act i think that that shows
as an example of how embedded as at work
uh... so many reporters and and producers and editors info fort for the
mainstream media are in israeli society only i had a friend who served in israel
defense forces
he works for the evening and religion appeal from that basically shields for
the most right wing extremists removal leaders in israel
and you know how can you help
such a person the story
uh... unpopular multimodal he wrote something on ann arbor has returned to
to about time the other day in which the first six paragraphs were awarded with a
quote from israeli to imagine a story on israel with the first
six quote from a story in the first six paragraph from palestinian
only in the new york times
and and that's an example of of the kind of problem you have
not so much and being in carrying out the protests bring getting
word out about the press you know it by syria
but video salsa path a lot of problems waited for the younger generation yes
numerous students people-to-people knowing that when you're younger you
know in the thirties
are a lot to the fact of the mainstream media doubtful useless in terms of
conveying basic information they go out and find stuff they go on line they
going to be gone face pic real wherever they go
anti-crime stuff so much more usually end with so much greater variety
then their elders would come to the people in positions of power in this
country are much over the last no but this is a clean easy is it c_n_n_'s this
the mainstream media in this country is useless
not just on this issue on almost all the houses right here so abut weed you just
have to wake up to that reality and find a way to circumvent the system that
violent protest that i'm talking about by the kids if you had that on tape and
you put that up on youtube i can tell you that how fast that would spread euro
millions of used that it would get i'm guessing you know and there's a and then
in a few and if people saw as they saw in the civil rights era here in the u_s_
people walking into the face of violence with non miles on their side and and
willing to take
unwilling to get hurt from too for the cause and you show that over and over
they're not going to be able to stop it well you know it was really rio to their
great credit and handed video cameras alpa copycat so
from these non-violent protest
open villages along the course of the wall that's basically
separated a large part of the west bank from another large by the west bank the
for the delusion that the thing is averted a separate
it israel from the occupied west bank it cannot intended to do that intended
protective israeli settlement implied the occupied territories and protector
of a large part
of the land
uh... belong to palestinians
from the profitability of whether through
were the people on the island with
and further been develop a series of protest who lived in villages all over
the course of this war
and uh... uh... may actually get a video cameras to kid there and they produce
something fantastic stuff when i thought it could be done effect of have to be
fed into
a larger ought to a lawyer or a larger audience yet
uses your friends
yeah but o_j_ professorship levy uh... great conversation as they much for
joining us really creative