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>> Satalia: Beverly McIver is one of the most acclaimed black female painters working today.
Her larger-than-life portraits of her family and herself examine race gender and social identity.
Raised in a housing project in Greensboro North Carolina McIver is the youngest of three girls.
In 2004 just as her career was taking off her mother died of pancreatic cancer
and McIver became the legal guardian of her mentally disabled sister Renee.
We'll talk with her about her career as a painter about growing up in the segregated south about her career
as a painter and about the HBO documentary that chronicles six years of her life as Renee's caregiver.
Here's our conversation with Beverly McIver...
>> Satalia: Beverly McIver thanks so much for joining us.
>> Beverly McIver: Thank you for having me.
>> Satalia: You're actually back to Penn State.
You earned your Master's of Fine Arts from Penn State back in 1992 and were invited back here in 2010
to receive a distinguished Alumni Fellow award which is Penn State's highest honor.
You're honored because of this amazing career that you have made for yourself as an artist.
And I was surprised to read that you started your career here at Penn State as a psychology major.
>> Beverly McIver: That's correct.
I wanted to major in something that I thought would yield me some money.
>> Satalia: A ticket out really.
>> Beverly McIver: That's right.
>> Satalia: You said of the life you lead Greensboro North Carolina.
>> Beverly McIver: Right right - out of the Projects.
So I wanted to be able to make a living and you know as everyone knows being an artist is not the easiest way
to make a living to have a financial income.
So I started off as psychology major and then I switched.
>> Satalia: You didn't even pick up a paint brush until pretty late in life right?
>> Beverly McIver: Right right.
I didn't paint when I was in high school and I started painting when I was an undergraduate yeah
like three years into my undergraduate degree.
>> Satalia: And an art teacher at the North Carolina Central University said you could get really good at this.
>> Beverly McIver: That's right that's right.
It was Elizabeth Lentz who was my teacher and who really really believed in me and said "You know
if you just work hard at this you could be really good at this."
And then I took her at her word.
And I saw it as my ticket out of the Projects.
So I focused and I worked hard to learn how to paint.
>> Satalia: You're painting mostly what you paint are portraits.
And the interesting thing to me is that when you came
to Penn State the faculty here actually discouraged you from really what your trademark is.
>> Beverly McIver: Yes.
>> Satalia: Why do you suppose they discouraged you from doing portraits?
>> Beverly McIver: Well I'll tell you exactly why.
I had a committee member who's no longer at Penn State now who was
like your still-lifes are beautiful they have a rich history and you should...
people get it and you know and white people I quote he said are not going to buy black paintings people
of they're not going to buy people of color to hang on their wall so you really want to stick
with these still-lifes and keep painting them.
>> Satalia: What kind of gave you the courage to say no this is what I'm painting?
Because especially when you're motivation was getting out of the Projects.
That could have derailed a lot of people from their true passion.
>> Beverly McIver: Yeah.
Well I had another professor here by the name of Richard Mayhew which is the reason that I decided
to come to graduate school at Penn State.
>> Satalia: A phenomenal landscape artist who
>> Beverly McIver: That's true.
>> Satalia: ...happens to be black.
>> Beverly McIver: Yes.
And he said he came in my studio once.
And he had on like a 9 X11 sheet of paper was a pastel portrait that he had done of a woman.
And he said "Look at this."
And he said "If you want to paint portraits of black people you should paint them.
And he said "Here take this you can have it.
And he walked out and I was like Oh my God I got this piece this work of art from Richard Mayhew.
Which I still have in my home and since then he's given me one of his landscapes oil paintings.
And so he was really the turning point for me
in saying you know what I'm going I'm going to listen to him and paint portraits.
>> Satalia: One thing about your portraits they're mostly of you and your family your sister Renee
who we'll find out more about in a moment your mother.
Mostly women some...
>> Beverly McIver: Yes.
>> Satalia: ...some men.
And they are selling.
Some of your pieces are selling for $25,000.
>> Beverly McIver: Right.
>> Satalia: Who's buying them?
And is it important to you because they are the content to me is so personal does it matter to you who purchase's them?
>> Beverly McIver: Well you know the paintings are like my babies.
And so it's like you know having your babies...
>> Satalia: Putting them out in the world.
>> Beverly McIver: ...being adopted and going out in the world.
And so it's important to me in that I want the person who buys it to really love it and want to live with it.
And as far as I know I've been fortunate enough that you know that has happened.
My biggest audience which is very interesting is not necessarily black people uh it's uh it's gay men [laughter].
>> Satalia: Do you know why?
>> Beverly McIver: I think it's because they too feel marginalized and I think it's
because they know what it means to be in the margins.
And therefore they identify with me talking about you know my sister Renee who's in the margin
and even myself as an African American painter.
So...
>> Satalia: It's interesting and you gave a talk today at Penn State and the title of the talk was Worthy of Winning.
>> Beverly McIver: Right.
>> Satalia: And one of the audience members wanted to know if this the pictures the portraits
that you've painted of yourself are a sort of diary.
You can actually look back at photographs that you've made not photographs I'm sorry paintings that you've made
over your career and kind of know how you were feeling.
There's the depression series there's...
>> Beverly McIver: Right.
>> Satalia: ...the Radcliff girl which is...
>> Beverly McIver: Right.
>> Satalia: ...wow this just brilliant beautiful happy smiling face.
>> Beverly McIver: Yeah.
True.
>> Satalia: Is it kind of a visual diary for you of where you've been and how far you've come?
>> Beverly McIver: Yeah.
I don't think about it like that when I'm actually making the work but it has definitely been that.
You know when I you know I always say whatever comes up comes out and so a lot of time when I'm
in the studio painting I don't know what's going to come up or out onto the canvas.
And you know so if I'm feeling depressed I mean when I made those depression paintings I wasn't like oh I'm going
to my studio to make depression paintings [laughter] because I'm depressed.
You know they just came out.
>> Satalia: Well you mentioned Richard Mayhew a moment ago and I was reading a little bit about him.
And he said...
>> Beverly McIver: Yeah.
>> Satalia: ...that he paints from the inside out.
>> Beverly McIver: Yeah.
>> Satalia: And that when he's painting he's literally in a trance
and he doesn't know what's going to end up on the canvass.
So I'm kind of...
>> Beverly McIver: Right.
>> Satalia: ...curious about your process.
What happens when you go into your painting space and do you go in-in the morning or at night and how does it all work?
>> Beverly McIver: Yeah.
That it's a lot like how Rick paints.
In that I go into the studio and I try to quiet myself because you know I'm thinking you know I need
to do the laundry or you know did I cook something to eat or whatever.
I have all these voices and I try to make them all leave the studio.
And I just start with a very general feel like you know okay I'm feeling you know peaceful right now.
And I look at images that I've taken photographs of.
>> Satalia: In fact you start your painting with a photograph.
>> Beverly McIver: That's correct.
>> Satalia: You project it onto a wall.
>> Beverly McIver: Right right.
And I flip through and I look at all the images and I really just intuitively decide which one I'm going to paint
at that moment and that's the one I start with.
And then that leads to other paintings.
I work on about three or four paintings at a time.
>> Satalia: Do you ever...
>> Beverly McIver: ...that I have around.
>> Satalia: ...abandon a painting?
>> Beverly McIver: Yes.
But you know you must know as someone who grew up in the Projects I am really really too frugal to abandon.
The abandon list is because I think that's wasting canvass and you know money and paint.
So I try to save most of them.
>> Satalia: Let's talk about a little bit about growing up in the Projects
because it it's certainly has permeated who you are and what you've done.
You were bused actually from Greensboro North Carolina to a white school.
>> Beverly McIver: Right.
>> Satalia: What was that experience like?
>> Beverly McIver: Well you know it's very interesting because I was living in the Project and you know
like our neighbor got you know killed and they found her in the dumpster.
And then of course in 1979 the Greensboro massacre happened right in front of our apartment.
So I had a very very...
>> Satalia: The Greensboro massacre by the way is was an anti *** group protesting against the *** coming
into town and five people died got shot...
>> Beverly McIver: Right.
>> Satalia: ...right in front of your doorstep.
>> Beverly McIver: That's exactly right right.
So the *** shot five people right there.
And my mother witnessed the entire thing from our kitchen window.
And our little green Pinto which is in the footage was also shot there is a hole through the back of the car.
Surprisingly it didn't explode [laughter]...
>> Satalia: Because Pintos did.
>> Beverly McIver: Exactly exactly.
So I had a very very negative view of what it meant to be black in the South
in Greensboro because of those experiences.
And so for me being bused out of that environment and going across town
to you know middleclass white people's schools K through 12 it was a godsend for me.
You know I mean the equipment at the I mean at the
at the schools was much better the educational system the books everything was plentiful.
>> Satalia: You ended up joining of all things in this white high school a clown club.
>> Beverly McIver: Right.
>> Satalia: And [laughter] you dressed up like a clown and as anyone knows clown makeup starts with a white foundation.
>> Beverly McIver: Right right.
>> Satalia: Tell me a little bit about that experience of dressing up like a white clown.
>> Beverly McIver: Well it's sort of interesting.
You know the school Grimsley High School where I was you know predominately white and me
and my sister decided to join the Clown Club.
And so for me it was just like this cool liberation that I could put on this disguise and dress up and really hide
that fact that I was black and from the Projects and poor and on welfare.
I could hide all of that which I was doing anyway but now I had a disguise.
>> Satalia: You were hiding it in the fact that if you went to a white girlfriend's home
when her parents dropped you off you'd say drop me off here in front...
>> Beverly McIver: That's true.
>> Satalia: ...of some random house so that they wouldn't know.
That must have been difficult too really you were hiding who you were and where you came from.
>> Beverly McIver: Well you know at the time it was just what I had to do.
And I didn't think about it I thought you know I wasn't thinking.
Now today I would think - I had to walk how far?
You know but now I mean back then I was just like I just didn't want them to know because I knew
that there was judgment placed on poor people in the Projects.
And one the Projects grew up Morningside home was one of the worst and toughest in terms of violence in in Greensboro.
>> Satalia: One of the interesting things about growing up poor.
I've read all kinds of biographies of famous very very extremely successful people and it's one
of the things that's hard to kind of shed.
And I read a quote from Cher for example who was scared to death of being poor even today.
>> Beverly McIver: Yeah.
>> Satalia: She said "It's kind of like the fat girl who loses 500 pounds but she's always the fat girl inside."
>> Beverly McIver: Yeah.
Yeah I completely relate to that.
I mean that's one of my biggest fears is that I'll be sent back to the Projects.
I mean I just I live with that every day.
>> Satalia: And complicating all of this is not only were you living this bright young woman living
in the Projects your sister - your oldest sister...
>> Beverly McIver: Right.
>> Satalia: ...was mentally disabled.
>> Beverly McIver: Yes.
Yes.
>> Satalia: Tell us about Renee.
>> Beverly McIver: So Renee is my oldest sister and she's 52 but she has a mindset
of a third grader and she also has epilepsy.
And you know growing up with Renee was tough because she really took all the attention.
>> Satalia: Sucked the air out of the room.
>> Beverly McIver: Was great at doing that.
You know because my mother had to focus on her as she was special needs and her wellbeing
and some of that responsibility felt fell to me and my other sister.
And Renee definitely would cast a huge shadow over us.
>> Satalia: Now at some point you made a promise to your mother.
I'm not sure how casually it was - that when she's gone - don't worry mom I'll take care of Renee.
>> Beverly McIver: Right.
Right. You know my mother asked me this was actually a couple of years before she died
and she was fine health she was healthy I mean she had high blood pressure but other than that she was just fine.
And she said you know she told me that Renee had said that she had talked to Renee
and Renee had said I want to come and live with you.
And I thought- what?
You know why did she choose me [laughter]?
You know given that I'm single and an artist...
>> Satalia: Your sister Ronnie is married.
>> Beverly McIver: She's married and you know they're in North Carolina.
And you know Renee could have continued a very similar life that she had
with my mother if she had stayed with my sister.
But instead you know she wanted to come live with me in New York or Arizona
or you know all the other places that we've lived.
>> Satalia: Do you do you analyze why you all these years later and we should say
that your mother died of pancreatic cancer in 2004.
>> Beverly McIver: Right.
>> Satalia: And shortly thereafter Renee did indeed move in with you and stayed with you for nearly six years
>> Beverly McIver: Right.
>> Satalia: Your friends have suggested that you needed her and she needed you and it's...
>> Beverly McIver: Yeah.
>> Satalia: ...unconditional love...
>> Beverly McIver: Right.
>> Satalia: ...even though there was a certain amount of resentment.
>> Beverly McIver: Yes.
Yes. I mean I think Renee you know like a child and through a child's eye she was picking the fun sister.
You know the one that traveled the one that you know seemed a little bit
on the edge and the fun one [laughter] smart right.
And I think that that's why and I think that you know I you know I was patient with her and listened
to her repeat birthdays to me over and over and over again.
So I think that you know I think that's why that decision was made.
But you know it became really tough because I I'm single and you know I've only raised...
>> Satalia: Cats.
>> Beverly McIver: ...some cats.
They're good cats [laughter].
But they're cats.
>> Satalia: Much like kids.
>> Beverly McIver: And you know I just didn't have any experience with how to take of this person
that in one instance could be a child and in another instance be a really you know profound smart human being.
And I didn't know which one I was getting from minute to minute.
>> Satalia: Now we're going to backtrack a little bit.
In 2003/2004 you earned a Radcliffe Fellowship.
And...
>> Beverly McIver: Right.
>> Satalia: ...while you there you happened to be in the same class
as a filmmaker a very successful filmmaker by the name of Jean Jordan.
She heard the story that you had promised when your mother died that you would take Renee and somehow this come up.
Tell us how that all turned into this HBO film Raising Renee.
>> Beverly McIver: Well initially you know Jean would come in her studio was right next to mine.
And she would come into my studio and say your paintings remind of film-stills and you know me
and my husband are really interested in making a film about you and your art and you being an artist.
Because you know my mother wasn't sick or dead or anything like that at the time.
And so right at the end of the Radcliff Fellowship my mother you know got sick and so then it became about the promise
that I had made to my mother to take care of Renee.
And so they got you know there is some footage of my mother
in a hotel room actually in New York when she came to visit me.
>> Satalia: Because the filming actually began as your career was skyrocketing.
>> Beverly McIver: That's right.
>> Satalia: You had a solo show your first solo show in New York City and your mother and Renee came to see the show.
>> Beverly McIver: That's exactly right that's exactly right.
So it's sort of an interesting time.
I mean I was living in New York at that time with the studio space very similar to what I'm doing now.
And you know Renee and mom come to New York for the first time which was we go see The Lion King
and on Broadway and it was just fantastic.
It was a great time.
>> Satalia: What was the experience like of being filmed because you absolutely seem all of you to not even know
that the cameraman is present in all of the footage that make up this film.
>> Beverly McIver: Yeah.
Well Steve Ascher the husband part of this team was is the cameraman and he would always just be quiet
and I could always just see his you know his facial
like you know this would be covered but I could see the rest of his face.
And he would never laugh or never say I can't believe you said that or you know make any sort
of judgment physically or orally about what I was doing.
And so I was just being me because I didn't know how he was taking it or how it was perceived
or you know or anything I was just being me.
>> Satalia: And you actually had no idea how the film would be put together until after this.
And in fact the filmmakers waited we should say that after five or six years...
>> Beverly McIver: Right.
>> Satalia: ...you figured out a way for Renee to live independently
in her own apartment in an assisted living arrangement.
>> Beverly McIver: Right.
Yes.
>> Satalia: And the filmmakers held onto the film didn't release it
for an entire year to make sure that it would work.
>> Beverly McIver: Yeah.
Yeah. They you know they're funny because they would call me
and they would say you know call us when anything you know exciting happens.
And because I hadn't seen any footage of the film I didn't know what that meant to them.
>> Satalia: Right.
>> Beverly McIver: So I would call them and I'd say "Hey I'm doing the..."
And they'd say no that's nothing [laughter].
You know...
>> Satalia: I'm doing a show.
>> Beverly McIver: [Inaudible] I mean they're like we don't care.
And then I'll never forget I called them and I said you know Renee's moving into this apartment.
And I said is that important and they were like yes.
And they got on a plane and flew down to film that event of Renee moving into this apartment on her own.
So and I must I also want to say that you know there was some I had lots of people family members and people
who don't matter tell me that you know that I was selfish for moving Renee and moving Renee out of my house.
They couldn't see how this opportunity for Renee to be on her own and have her own space and her own independence...
>> Satalia: And still be cared for.
>> Beverly McIver: ...and still be cared for...
>> Satalia: ...and safe.
>> Beverly McIver: ...very much was important.
>> Satalia: Do you think your mother would approve of her living in an apartment would she be okay with your decision?
>> Beverly McIver?
I think my mother would definitely approve of Renee living on her own.
I think my mother could not do that for Renee in part because of finances
and also because my mother was over protective.
And she would have never let Renee move out because they were codependent on each other.
But you know Renee often says to me you know she'll say you know mamma's looking down from heaven
and she's smiling she's proud of us [laughter].
And I think she sure is.
>> Satalia: You said that you cry every time you see the film.
>> Beverly McIver: Yeah.
>> Satalia: What parts of it make you cry?
>> Beverly McIver: My mother dying I think.
You know when I or that the interview that I did of my mother two years earlier where I asked her if she's happy.
>> Satalia: That was a tough part.
>> Beverly McIver: Does she have any regrets?
And she says I wouldn't have gotten married.
And I think what you wouldn't you know what you wouldn't have gotten married.
I understand that you know I mean she married a looser and it was a tough life.
>> Satalia: And actually you're a love child.
>> Beverly McIver: That's exactly right.
>> Satalia: Your mother had an affair with someone when she was in this very bad marriage.
>> Beverly McIver: Yes.
Yes that's exactly right.
So I guess I'm just I guess it makes me sad because I would have wished
that my mother would have had a better relationship with a man and a better you know life in that regard you know.
So every time I see that it you know it makes me sad and it also makes me sad you know
when I'm burying my cat in the backyard you know.
There's this behind this scenes you know the cat dies and the cat is at the vet in a bag and they've put the cat
in the freezer because I couldn't pick the cat up right away.
And Steve is with me and he's like you know we got to go get the cat and I'm like I can't go get the cat I can't.
And...
>> Satalia: It's funny what things kind of pushes you over the edge
to let your emotions flow and that is the death of your cat.
>> Beverly McIver: Oh my God.
>> Satalia: Where do you see yourself 10-years from now?
And I guess what I'm really wondering is Beverly McIver going to be known for portraits
or is there something else waiting in the wings?
>>Beverly McIver: Oh that's a that's a really good question.
I mean I love to paint I love to teach I love working with you know young artists and
but it's also important you know this is the first time today was the first time this morning where I talked
about being worthy which is something that is just really been on my heart for a long time.
>> Satalia: It's the first time you've said it out loud.
>> Beverly McIver: It's the first time that I physically have like shared it with...
>> Satalia: Wow.
>> Beverly McIver: ...an audience.
And it just went over so well and so many people came up to me afterwards and said you know I'm working
on feeling worthy I know what you're talking about.
You know hard it is I have tapes that are playing in my head from childhood that tell me
that I'm not but I'm you know rewriting those tapes.
And I thought oh my God you know talking about this is really profound and people need
to hear it and people need to rewrite those tapes.
>> Satalia: And you're not afraid to be honest.
>> Beverly McIver: No.
No no no I'll just...
Sagittarius open mouth insert foot [laughter].
>> Satalia: Beverly McIver thank you so much for talking with us.
>> Beverly McIver: Thank you my pleasure.
>> Satalia: I hope you enjoyed our conversation with Beverly McIver.
Comcast subscribers can watch this program anytime on Penn State On Demand.
Find out how through our website: conversations-dot-psu-dot-edu
where you'll also find information about the HBO documentary "Raising Renee."
I'm Patty Satalia.
We hope you'll join us for our next "Conversation from Penn State!"