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There are going to be lots more opportunities
to talk about role modeling. Thank you for those of you who could share for that question.
Last statement. This is on working with girls. For those of you who just joined, we're playing
an icebreaker called "Put Yourself on the Line." This is the last statement I'm going
to make. If you strongly agree with it, you're going to shoot your arms up in the air. If
you are in the middle, you'll put yourself here. And then if you strongly disagree, you're
going to put your hands down. This last statement, like I said, is about
working with girls. "I feel super confident about how to manage a group of girls. You
put 30 girls in front of me, I know what to do, how to handle them."
All right, a lot of hands up. Let's see. Some are in the middle, and some are down. This
is really good to see. We have quite a range of experiences here. We're now going to get
into the workshop if you can all take a seat. What I want you to all know is that we're
here to share some of our best practices from Techbridge about how to effectively work with
girls and convey positive messages about STEM and really be the most effective role model
you can be. But the thing is, there's a lot of experience here. I know a lot of you raised
your hand saying you had worked with girls. Maybe it's been within STEM, maybe it's not
it's been a different field. Whatever it is, I think there are a lot of
experiences within this room. Throughout the workshop, Linda and I are going to be sharing
tips, but we also welcome you to share your knowledge with your colleagues, some of whom,
as we see, don't have as much experience working with large groups of girls.
With that, I'm going to leave it to Linda, but before that I want to share a little bit
about who I am so you understand the perspective that I'm bringing to it.
I've been with Techbridge for about a year and a half now, doing STEM outreach work.
Before that, I was actually an academic researcher just like all of you. I come from a molecular
biology background. Did a lot of research and whatnot. I want you to know that I come
with that same perspective. When I was doing those different research
opportunities like you, I dabbled in outreach in the summers or whatnot when I had some
time. Like many of you, I also had role models. I did not really enjoy STEM in high school.
It wasn't until college when I met some really inspiring role models who led me there.
That's my perspective. I'll let Linda share about herself.
My personal story. Like her, I don't have a STEM background. On that question where
she asked about role models around STEM, I think I had my hand down. I never really thought
about a future in STEM. I have a background in education and in special education.
I think I got involved and committed to this mission because I have a son. I know when
he was little in preschool, he was playing with Legos. When he got older, he was doing
all kinds of taking things apart around the house. I think he got into high school and
was in an engineer's academy. Went on to college, majored in engineering, and now he's an engineer.
What I always wanted for him is to work side by side from preschool now through the workforce
with young women who are bright and talented. He can bring another perspective to engineering
or to computer programming. I think the favorite part of my job at Techbridge
is when I get to get out of the office and get to see our girls in action. I get to see
our girls working on all kinds of fun projects, whether it's taking apart a lawnmower engine
to figure out how they work to learning how to learning how to solder and making a silver
night light, the girls are totally engaged, having fun, and often really inspired by our
activities. What really surprised me was at the end of
our first year. I looked at transcripts from focus groups with our girls and read about
our impact on them. They said yes, they loved these projects so unlike [inaudible 04:03]
. But they said they only saw them as hobbies and not in any way as a future career.
We realized the Techbridge factor. Two years ago we really want to promote [inaudible 04:15]
put role models at the center to get girls to think about hose kinds of careers. We don't
expect every one of our girls to become a computer programmer or an engineer, but we
want all the girls in our community to know about those options. What we realize is that
it really is role models like you who can help share your stories and show girls the
future possibilities in STEM for them. At Techbridge, we host after school programs...
One that's really appealing, our girls often draw pictures of girls or women who are like
just like themselves so that they really are beginning to feel that they can be that future
scientist or engineer because of meeting a role model.
You might wonder as we do, does it really have an impact. We know it feels good when
a role model comes to our program, the role model feels good afterwards. The girls are
really excited but what sort of impact does it have.
Every year Techbridge conducts surveys with our girls. We do focus groups and observations
and we find that at the end of a year that the impact of a role model visit or a field
trip really has an impact on not only girls' interest and engagement around science or
engineering but also their plans for future careers, and that these impacts last long
term. You might wonder if you are visiting a classroom
program one afternoon or spending a weekend at a university working with a group of girl
scouts doesn't really matter and doesn't matter long term.
We've had girls from Techbridge who will come back when they are in college and will say
you know, I remember this role model I met in sixth grade or this field trip you took
us on in eighth grade and it was like that's when the light bulb went out. I knew I wanted
to become a civil engineer. And they tell me like, you know, here I am freshman in college
and a major in civil engineering. So both our research and Techbridge as well
as the research literature really support the impact that each one of you can make on
girls. Woman 2: So now we are going to get into
the heart of the workshop and basically as Linda mentioned the point is to kind of get
across tips and strategies about things, what kind of information is important to share
with girls to get them excited about some and then also just kind of basic facilitation
tips because all of us don't know how to manage our age group girls and don't know how to
really effectively facilitate a STEM activity to get them excited about those careers.
And so we are going to break the workshop into most of those major points. What I have
up here is kind of the structure for the rest of our workshop but it's a structure of also
a role model and it's kind of the elements that we think are really important to include
in a role model event. We are going to go into more detail with all
of these points later. Also, you'll notice there're some print resources in front of
you. Our guide for role models pretty much outlines all of these a lot more in detail.
So after the discussions and activities we have today, you may want to check that out
also for even more information to go to. So these are the four elements that we think
are essential for a role model visit. Whether it's you going into your daughter's classroom
just to talk to them or to interact with them for one afternoon, or whether you're partnering
with one of those big groups that's downstairs, the Girl Scouts or one of those other big
outreach groups, and helping them host an all day event. All of these things we think
in some form or another can fit within the structure of a role model interaction. And
so we're going to go step by step through each of these.
So the icebreaker, we actually already did an icebreaker, so we're just going to highlight
some of the points that you already know about why an icebreaker is important, and maybe
a couple of points and other ideas about how icebreakers can be used.
So I think the first one we're probably most familiar with. Icebreakers are about breaking
the ice, making girls feel more comfortable. And this is really something that's not to
be diminished at all because doing an icebreaker right from the start can kind of set the stage.
It can get everybody feeling good and really set the tone of the room to make the girls
feel interactive and whatnot. And that's what I was hoping to do with all of you, as well,
today. Another thing you might not know you can use
an icebreaker for is to introduce new scientific vocabulary or careers. We actually have a
lot of career related icebreakers that are fun games but are also ways to get across
information to girls who have never met an engineer and don't really know about what
those fields involve. We have some examples on our website that you can check out.
And then the last point is checking for background knowledge. So that's something I actually
used today. I wanted to know who here had experience having a role model or who had
experience actually working with girls before. So you can use similar icebreakers like that.
With girls, obviously, change the questions but just to get their understanding. Maybe
you want to know what kind of science classes they've had, or what their experience has
been like with science. Maybe they've all had negative experiences, and so it's good
for you to kind of use icebreakers in a way to kind of draw that information out of girls.
So as I said, since we already did an icebreaker we're not going to focus too much on that.
There are the other essential elements that we're going to spend more time on.
So, the next one is the role model personal story. You might be asking what does that
mean. Personal story, what's that all about? And the idea is, Linda showed those really
striking images of the before and after images of what girls impressions were before meeting
a role model and after. And a huge part of showing that shift, getting
that shift where the girl starts to see themselves in that role model, is really connecting to
the role model. And it could be about sharing your career and your passion and enthusiasm
for the career. But it's also about sharing who you are as
a person. What interests you have, what hobbies you have, why you ended up there. Why should
those girls want to go to that field and be like you? So sharing all those things, whether
it's personal or academic information is really important and really important to making that
connection. We're going to talk a little bit more in detail
about that in a few minutes. But before we have those discussions, we're actually going
to share a couple of video examples of some of our role models in action. And they're
just to kind of get the juices flowing and you thinking about, "Oh, what might I do",
or what are some possibilities for what you can do in the classroom and what kind of information
can you share with girls. So these are really brief clips. I think they're
only about a minute each and the first I'm showing are actually from just one of our
role models. She recently went in a couple of months ago. Her name's Josetta Jones and
she is a chemical engineer and also a patent attorney.
She went into a middle school classroom. Just to give you a little bit of context, I'm only
showing you two minutes of her visit. She actually spent a lot of time sharing information
with the girls that you won't get to see. And then she actually led a hands on activity
after that. Let's just watch a few clips. Anyone else have an idea about how science
and the law actually come together? Oh, back there. Yes.
Student: [inaudible 13:57] If I had a gold star I would give you ten
gold stars today because I am a patent attorney, and you're absolutely right. Science and engineering
come together with respect to patent law. So who knows what patent laws...? Actually
you probably know this. Patents are the rights to [inaudible 14:17]
. Are you a patent attorney? Is somebody you
know a patent attorney? You are extremely dead on, spot on. Patent attorneys help you
protect your inventions. So I work for Chevron and Chevron, believe
it or not, we have lots of inventions. And they deal with actually exploring for oil
and gas. Yeah, the gas for gasoline. We have additives that we put in our gasoline to make
your car go better. We have additives that we put in our engine oils to make your car
and other things like the shipping vessels on the open seas actually move better in the
ocean. We have some patents that relate to new technology
ventures and new sorts of energy like wind and solar, and mining for natural gas. So,
all of these things relate to patent law. We have one more short clip, and just keep
noting down what you liked and what you thought wasn't maybe as effective.
I'm not all science and engineering. I like to do things like you girls probably like
to do. I heard someone earlier talking about shopping. I like to shop. I like Justine's.
She made me say that but I like Justine's. I like to hang out with my friends. I'm sure
you guys like to hang out with your friends. I like to read and travel and that's exactly
how I am with my friends. I'm going to have dinner with a friend tonight after I leave
here. I like to travel, I like to read and I like to knit. So maybe there's like some
things on that list of what I like to do that you ladies like to do as well.
So hopefully watching those few brief clips, some thoughts maybe popped in your mind about
what kinds of things might be important to share with girls when you're talking about
STEM or trying to introduce them to STEM careers. So we're actually going to take a couple of
minutes where you're going to turn to the person next to you and just talk to them briefly
about the following questions here. So basically I want you to think about what
did you like, what did you dislike about the videos. And then, obviously those were just
some short clips from Josetta. Maybe think about you yourself. You have a different background
than What would you want to share? What do you think would be important to convey to
girls if you were to go in for the first time and meet them?
So we're going to give you just a few minutes to talk with your partner, and then we're
going to regroup and I'll give you a little warning when time is up and we'll regroup
and share out what we discussed. [background conversations 17:11 19:25]
So I hear some really engaging discussions going on. If we can all come back together
and I'd love to hear what some of you were thinking about.
So, how about we start off with things that you responded positively to? What appealed
to you about the few clips that I shared with you? The fact that she engaged the students. So,
when she asked if they knew what a patent attorney was and the young lady did. She was
engaging and it wasn't just, "OK, this is the definition of a patent attorney. This
is what we do as a chemist or chemical engineer." It was engaging. And I think that's important
that you reach young people where they're at and able to communicate.
Exactly. So she used questions. She made it interactive. She didn't just tell them what
a patent attorney is. She drew it out of them. I mean, one, it's interactive. Two, it shows
respect for the students that you have something to contribute and we want to hear what background
that you already have. So it wasn't by accident that I chose those
clips because there is a lot of question and answer there and back and forth. Yeah?
I like in the second clip she did two things kind of in the same sentence. She really showed
that you can be a professional and still have a personality and still kind of hold onto
Great. Wonderful. Any other points? Kind of related to what he was saying, when
I was watching and when we were talking, at first I was a little taken aback back the
fact that she was dressed casually. But the more I listened to what she was saying, the
more it fell right in line with the theme of, "I can do all of this, but I'm not so
different from you that this blue suit person is impossible to achieve." So in the end I
ended up liking the idea that she was casual and reaching out to them.
And that's definitely by intention. She dresses very professionally most of the time for work.
But when she realized that she's coming into a Techbridge program she wants to be more
hip and more able to connect to the girls. Definitely. Any other things you noticed about
maybe the things she talked about or the way she talked?
law. A lot of times the panel even talked about seeing all aspects of technology and
how it's applied in other facets of careers. You can see how you can apply it in the real
world application of it. Even though she is a chemical engineer, she has a legal aspect
on her side. So she has options for careers. Great. So making connections between STEM
and different careers because no field is completely isolated. And also, bringing up
that work, how does that connect to the broader world? These are all things that impact the
girls we work with on a regular basis but they just don't know it. We all know what
a doctor does. We all have an idea of what a lawyer does. We see those messages all through
media or the people around us. Girls don't realize that that cellphone that
they are addicted to, or the house that they live in, or all the kind of different gadgets
and products that we use on a daily basis, they impact them at every level. That's really
important. What about anything that you noticed that
maybe wasn't as effective or that you would have done differently?
Yeah, back to the point about how she was trying to make it seem like she was one of
them. She was almost a little too hard for me. I approached it that way just because
of what that was. And I was watching the girls, and I couldn't tell if they were taking it
I think also what fits with you personally. I think it totally works for her and engages
our girls. But we're all not like Josetta and you want to find your own way to do it.
Exactly. Anything else? I thought she maybe focused too much on the
one student who knew about patents. Sometimes, especially middle school girls, will look
at that one student and be like, "Oh, she's being singled out. I don't want to be like
her." OK. So making sure you are engaging everybody.
And to be fair to Josetta, we just saw two minutes of her...
[crosstalk 24:23 24:30] Sure. And that's really important to bring
up because this will actually come up a lot more when we talk about facilitating the hands
on activity. It's really important to think of ways to make everybody feel included, not
just the most outspoken person. Just now I had you do share with your partner, because
otherwise, if we do like a large group share only two or three people will be able to share.
So we look for ways to make girls have an opportunity to have their voice heard. So,
really important point. Reflecting on your own experience, obviously
different than Josetta's. You have a lot of different things to share that Josetta wouldn't
necessarily be able to. So were there any things that come to mind if you were to go
walk into a group of girls what you might share?
Sure. I would let them know that I was lost. I didn't know what direction I wanted to go.
The current position I'm in now and some of the other jobs I've had is far away from what
I was thinking about at their age. So it would be a way of developing rapport with them and
letting them know, "Hey, no matter how lost you think you are..."
I love the way that my tablemates talked about how, you know, related to what the girls on
the panel said about not picking only science and math...and these two ladies here were
talking about how she made it seem like you can go into all of these different diverse...you
can do, with these two skills, so many different things.
Yeah. So, great points brought up. The idea is that it's not all rosy and positive. And
we tell our role models the idea is not go in there and tell girls, "Oh, math and science
are amazing." It's not about that. It's about painting a realistic image that, yes, maybe
it is hard to make those career decisions or maybe it is hard to persevere in that class
or whatnot, but how do you get around that?" And that's really important to share.
One of the role models this morning who spoke talked about having an experience where she
was in some high pressure situation and then she made a mistake with a presentation and
had to go back and do it again. She said, "I could have just given up. But I was like,
no, I am going to do this." So it's really important to share those things
with our girls who have a lot of pressure on them to feel perfect and do everything
right. We need to share with them the struggles and how you get past that.
And I think thinking about some strategies they could apply in their lives right now,
like in terms of forming a study group or going to someone for assistance or tutoring
if they are struggling with the math class. So it's not just about the struggles that
happen to the role model when they are grown up, but also those same struggles that happen
to the girls at that time in their lives. Yeah, exactly. I shared this story with the
last group it was just so powerful. There was a role model who came and spoke about
how when she was in college she was diagnosed with a learning disability. In the room was
a girl who had a learning disability, a Techbridge girl, who's been coming to all these programs
and whatnot. When she heard that role model say that she
had a learning disability and talk about how she got beyond it, her mouth dropped. Like,
"Really? She can do that?" and it was so touching, because here is a girl who, she's been exposed
to all the science and engineering topics, but she needed to see a role model she could
identify with who had that struggle and see her persevere. It was really inspiring for
her. So there are a lot of discussions we can have
about different things to share. Hopefully that kind of sparked a little bit of thought
about what you might share. Just a couple things that we think are important
that I just want to highlight in this side. Make it personal. That's something we talked
about already. We don't just want you to just share your career information. It's really
important to make yourself relatable so that the girls...those myths and stereotypes around
Stem and Stem careers can be dispelled. We didn't talk about this too much, but using
kid friendly language is really important. And the idea is not to dumb it down, but be
select about what vocabulary is important to your field and what you might share. But,
at the same time, be really careful about defining it using visuals, reiterating the
vocabulary word in different ways and giving real life examples of where that might appear.
So be careful about the kind of language you use.
And also, we didn't get to hear too much about how Josetta ended up where she is. But a lot
of the girls we work with, whether they are in elementary school or high school, they
want to hear about college. And maybe they don't know someone who went to college. Maybe
they don't know someone who is a professional. So it's really important to share those ideas
with them about how you end up there. The last point about showing how Stem can
change the world. I think it's come up a little bit. We kind of talk about this generally
as Stem messaging and just how to give positive messages. I think some of you may have gone
to a workshop already on Stem message. I know there is another parallel one going on. So
we only touch on that. Along with that, Linda likes to convey how
much... Right. One other thing I would add to this
element is to make it passionate and to really gush. We learned from one of our role models,
Lynn Gomes, who you are going to see in a second. She said that, at work, she's got
to be professional and keep it together. But she realizes that she is coming to meet our
girls. She really wants to show them how much she loves engineering, so she really gushes
about it. I remember the first time I met with her and
we were planning a field trip to her work site that does wastewater treatment, I was
thinking, "How is this going to work? How are our girls going to get interested in this
topic?" But they left so enthusiastic about Lynn and all her colleagues, because they
were so passionate and they all left saying, "I want to work where Lynn works, at this
place." So really share that passion and realize this is not a professional presentation. You
really want to make that passionate connection with kids.
Yeah. I think that passion kind of ties in with that last point on how to make it meaningful
for the girls. I just want to share one, last short video clip from Lynn that really, briefly
captures that idea, that messaging piece. As engineers, we are curious people. We love
to understand and figure out how things work. Why do they work that way? Why did you do
it that way? Half the time we spend looking at other peoples' designs and saying, "Why
did you design it that way? How can we make it better?" As engineers, we want to make
the world a better place. I just want to leave you with that, thinking
about if you are going in to work with a group of girls for the first time, how are you going
to convey that enthusiasm? What is it about your career that excites you that you want
to share with the girls? That's just something to leave with. Another side point is you may
have been wondering why she was carrying around a hair dryer.
The reason is that, after sharing a little bit about herself, she actually did a hands
on activity, where the girls got to take part a hair dryer and compare them to each other
and do what's called competitive bench marking and thinking about what about their product
is good versus another hairdryer. That was the activity there. We're going to switch
gears a little bit. All of this was about personal stories and what you, as a role model,
can share about your own life and experiences that will really impact the girls.
We are going to change gears to one of those other essential elements, which I talked about,
which is how to facilitate a hands on activity. Actually, there was one point I wanted to
bring up, before I move on. We had a good question in the last session about, do we
ever bring male role models in. I just wanted to address that, because we have had male
role models come in and, in some cases, they do an even more fantastic job of connecting
with the girls. You may not look exactly like those girls.
But I just want to let especially the men in the room or even you females can tell your
male colleagues, it's really important to get the males out there as well, telling girls
that we want you there and we want you to be part of our group. I just want to convey
that, as a male, you can connect with girls on different hobbies, activities and in all
different ways. It's not just something that a woman can do. Do you have anything to add?
I think somebody else in the morning group had also mentioned that it's really great
for boys to hear that message, for them to hear female and male role models talk about
how important it is for girls to go into that field, so that they're not thinking that science
or that science cup is a boy thing. Yeah, exactly. That was a really good point
this morning. As I said, we are going to switch gears a little bit. We addressed in the beginning,
in the icebreaker, that everybody doesn't necessarily know how to manage a group of
girls. I didn't either. As I said, I came from a research background and I just, on
the fly, tried to pick up some tips. We want to share some of those tips with you about
how to best engage girls. There are a lot of different teaching techniques that you
can learn and whatnot. We just tried to pick out a few things that
we thought might be really important to highlight. Just so you know, the Role Model Guide in
your folder goes more in depth with all of the things that we are going to discuss and
actually highlights even more topics. There are three topics we are going to address.
We are actually going to do this through a hands on activity. We are going to engage
in some hands on projects that our girls do. Through that, Linda and I are going model
some teaching techniques or facilitation techniques. We're going to talk about it afterwards and
see what you might have done differently and what you liked about what we did. There are
three things we are going to highlight, when we do facilitate and model the activity. The
first one is feedback, useful and specific feedback.
We might think, "That doesn't sound very specific. What does that mean?" The idea of feedback
means that, rather than just, if a girl is doing really well and you are engaging her
in a hands on activity and she completes it really easily, just saying, "Great job." and
leaving it at that, you talk to her specifically about what you think she did well.
"Oh, your design worked well." Or, "I really liked how you thought carefully about what
questions you wanted to test in that experiment." You give very specific feedback. At the same
time, if a girl is not challenged and she moves through an activity fast, you give her
something to challenge her even more. One idea is either giving her an extension on
the activity and putting one more restriction or requirement for her to work through, or
having that girl be a leader and go around the room and help some of the other girls,
who might be struggling. That is what specific feedback is about. On
the flipside, if you have a girl, who is struggling, we really want to encourage that girl. We
don't want to complete the project for her, but we want to encourage her. You can do that
through questioning. That's one of the other techniques we have here. Or really it's just
trying to motivate that girl, if she is lacking confidence and struggling and really needs
some feedback around trying again and redesigning. That's one of the things we're going to try
to model for you. The next is questioning. All of you here are
scientists and engineers, so you know how important questioning is to your field. We
want to use questions in the classroom to get girls excited and pique their curiosity.
We also want to encourage them, if we can, to start asking questions as well. Finally,
the last point is inquiry. This is definitely one that's interesting to me, because, as
I mentioned, I have a research background, but I wasn't always interested in science
and engineering. I always had very boring lab classes.
They were hands on in high school, but they had these really prescribed activities, where
I wasn't required to think. I just had to, step by step, follow instructions. Honestly,
I'm terrible at following instructions, [laughs] so often I couldn't get it to work. It wasn't
very thoughtful and I didn't feel like I could really explore and engage. We really encourage
you to engage girls with projects that really get them to explore and be creative and have
open ended challenges. This may end up working out differently and in different ways.
You might be partnering with Girl Scouts or another group or a teacher, who gives you
a specific activity and it's very prescribed. There are ways to modify it and make it more
creative. That's something to keep in mind. Without further ado, I think we're going to
start with a hands on activity. Again, we are going to come back to these few points
afterwards. Linda and I are going to be modeling. We are pretty pressed for time, so we're only
going to have about 10 minutes to work on this.
As we are working through the challenge, I just want you to pay attention. Linda and
I will circulate the room and talk to you about how it's going. I want you to make note
of what we say to you and whether what we say is effective or, in other cases, not effective.
Later on we are going to talk about that. Just to preface this, we are very short on
time. Normally we spend maybe a half hour or an hour on such an activity. But the whole
point is to just get your feet wet and having the experience for a short while. I
F you don't finish the challenge, it's OK. The whole point is to just start and get thinking
about what it's like to facilitate an activity. The actual activity is called "Tune in Tech
Bridge". We have a scenario here. The scenario is that a big earthquake has hit. We are from
California, so our girls relate to earthquakes. A big earthquake has hit and all the phones
have lost their signal. There's no way of contacting anybody. We need to basically design
a tower that allows a signal to be received. The way you are going to build this tower
is you have some really awesome materials in front of you that will work really effectively
for building a radio tower. We have some foil. We have some toothpicks and some Popsicle
sticks. We are actually going to go around and give you two feet of tape. Your challenge,
in the next 10 minutes, is to basically build a tower as tall as you can that is stable
and that can hold a golf ball on top. That golf ball is to represent what is going
to receive your signal. That is your challenge. Like I said, it's OK if you aren't able to
finish in the 10 minute period. As you're working through it, we are going to come around
and talk to you about it and give you some feedback. Are there any questions, before
we get started? The other thing is, we are going to work in pairs. If you have six people
at your table, you'll have three groups. Each group will get one of these packets to work
with. You can use any of the materials in that packet, including the foil.
[background conversations 40:03 44:47] You have five more minutes.
[background conversations 44:49 48:00] [laughs] Thank you. Everybody, just so you
know, we have one more minute left and I know a lot of you are not necessarily finished
at this point. But, it's OK. [background conversations 48:09 49:16]
All right everybody. We are going to stop with the hands on challenge. As I told you
before, normally when we lead this activity with girls, we would actually spend [pause]
we would actually spend a half hour or so on such an activity.
We might lead a structured brainstorming session on the activity. But, for time's sake, we
were just trying to do it within 10 minutes. We are actually going to debrief this activity,
but before we continue, I just wanted to address our webcast audience, who weren't with us
right from the start. I just want to give a recap to everybody in
the room as well as those of you, who are joining us from afar. The goal of this workshop
is basically to try to get across the different components that we think are essential for
including in a role model visit, whether you are going to an after school program or into
a classroom or whether you're working with a group like the Girl Scouts on an all day
engineering or science Festival. Some of the elements that we have gone over so far are
the importance of using icebreakers. We did one here in the room. For those of
you, who are in the webcast audience, just to let you know, we have other simple icebreakers
that you can find on our website, which are in some of the print materials in the link
that you'll be receiving. We talked about the importance of using ice
breakers. We also talked about the importance of sharing personal stories, which I think
you may have heard some of. A lot of different elements of what kinds of things you can share
with girls, whether it's academic or personal information or whatnot.
For the webcast audience, as well as those in the room, just a reminder that all of those
kind of tips of what to share, actually, there's a really good description of them in the role
model guide to kind of refresh your memory later on.
Then, those of you in the webcast audience, just so you know, the past 10 minutes, we
actually gave a design challenge to the group here. As we were, and the design challenge
was to build the tallest tower using really limited supplies: foil, toothpicks, some Popsicle
sticks and just a little bit of tape. And so for those of you at home or at your workplace,
I just encourage you. We are posting this activity online and we
have other similar activities online. I encourage you to try this out maybe with your niece
or daughter or neighbor just to get a feel for how doing a hands on activity might be.
And you can try it out before you might use such an activity in your own outreach efforts
with a larger group of kids. So as we were going around and as you all
were struggling, working sorry, I didn't mean struggle. I shouldn't have said that [laughter]
. So actually I want to start off before we debrief anything, I just want to get a thumbs
up. How many thumbs up, thumbs down. How many of you enjoyed the activity? OK, anybody had
really struggle and was like, "Ah, not sure about this." Maybe some people were kind of
in the middle. So what about, how many of you are engineers in the room?
Do we have to put our hands up? Yes, you do. So for those of you though in
the audience, the webcast audience as well, you might not be an engineer. You may be.
But it's interesting to note that even without having that engineering background, we can
still engage in such design challenges to make what happens in the real world situation
where engineers go through the design process every day when they're building buildings
or designing the new iPhone or whatnot. These are the kinds of simple activities that
we want to get our girls excited about too and show them that they too can design and
go through that testing phase and redesign phase. Even at their level, in some cases,
they can engineer even better than us. That's just something to keep in mind.
We'd like to share a little bit about how that experience was for each of you. As you
all were completing the activity, Linda and I were circulating the room and giving some
feedback. Some of you we reached. For the time constraints, I think we weren't able
to get to everybody, but for those of you who got some feedback from us, we'd like you
to share, and so that our webcast audience can hear as well, we're going to pass the
mic around so that they can hear your responses as well.
We'll start off by thinking about, what kinds of things did we do to engage you?
Is this on? You came over here and said, "You're finished in less than 10 minutes. Can you
make it four inches taller?" We said, "What will we do?" and we said, "Toothpicks." So
we've made it not only four inches taller. Probably about 6 to 10 inches taller." A lot
of cooperation here. We saw that this group over here, they finished
with the challenge early, so I tried to give them an additional challenge. That's something
to consider. What other things did you see that you appreciated or that helped you along
in the process? Who else would like to share something?
Talking to my teammate here was good collaboration, because I had absolutely zero idea how to
do this, because I have no engineering background and no man gene, obviously, for this type
of stuff, and then also looking to see what other folks were doing. I'm John Smith, by
the way. I think that's really interesting, because
you focused not on what the facilitators could do for you but what your own teammate can
do for you. I think that's a really important thing to bring up when you're working with
girls, to have them use each other as resources. Really if we're trying to promote, remember,
that inquiry piece, where the girls are leading and they're the ones in control of how things
are going, it's really important to create that culture where they're going to each other
for help as well. We found it interesting that sometimes girls
at the start will think that it's cheating if somebody else is looking at their design
and taking aspects from it, so I think it really is important to convey that message
that in the real world, that's what we do, is we look at ideas from other people and
build upon them. It really isn't about cheating or taking somebody's idea.
Any other thoughts about maybe something that Linda or I did that worked well for you? Any
other thoughts? Sorry, do you want to take the mic?
I was so focused on the project, I forgot what you said. I know you came close to the
table. You said, "Well, it's standing up," and we were like, "Yes. We're talking hands
off." Before it falls over, but... How about, did either of us ask you questions?
You asked if we needed help. Asked if you needed help? She said "asked
if you needed help." Did anybody else get any specific questions?
How did it make you feel? Because I think I asked a few different groups, did they need
help? Did it feel like a good thing or a not so good thing?
You asked us the question, "Do you all need some help?" It made me think, maybe we weren't
doing too well. [laughter]
What kind of question would have made you react differently? What kind of question would
have been useful to hear? I would just say, getting a tip from you,
to look at what we're doing at something in terms of guiding us in the right direction.
"You're on the right track," or "you need to do this or that."
It's just like when you have children that are doing something you don't want them to
do, you use the redirection tool. Maybe at this point, as mine topples over...
[laughter] ...You get a redirection "Hey, if you did
x..." it might help. I have two scenarios. You were talking about
your structure and you were like, "Oh, if mine topples over, one idea is to say, 'Oh,
you could do this to make it from toppling over.'" What if I put the question back at
you? Why do you think it toppled over? What do you think made it topple over? OK, that's
what happened? How about, what do you think you can do to prevent that from happening
next time? I don't think either of you came over to our
partnership, but I've listened in when you came there.
[laughter] One of you came over and said, "How's it going,"
and somebody said, "It's going," and that was it. It was kind of like, "You're interrupting
me. Go away." The other one came over and said, "What's your design plan here," and
then they really opened up and were like, "Well, we're going for this," and then there
was some more engagement. There was just two very contrasting...
I think our point as we were going around was kind of showing some positive facilitation
skills and some maybe less than positive ones, where it didn't make you feel more confident.
It might have compared your project with someone else's or didn't give you enough guidance
to figure out what to do next. Just ideas, maybe, of what not to do based on what I said.
Great. We had such a short time. Obviously we couldn't get around to everybody. But hopefully
you took away a few key points about things about feedback and questioning and that inquiry
piece as well. Again, for those of you on the webcast and those of you here, the "Guide
for Role Model Resources," which will be up on the link, that will be available to everybody
in the room as well as the webcast. There's a lot more details about some of these
facilitation techniques. There are also even things that we didn't even talk about, like
classroom management how do you handle a large group and other tips as well. Please, please
check that out, because we weren't able to go fully into that today. We'll take one last
point. I was just going to say that I thought the
time check was good, because especially with girls, we get to be kind of perfectionist
y, so if we have grand plans and the time runs out, you're halfway through, it can be
more discouraging than encouraging, so I liked the five minutes and then two minutes, or
whatever you did. Sure. That time check that actually goes along
really well with that management piece. How do you try to keep everyone on track? One
of the things I actually do I don't think I did it today, but that time piece I often
try to turn it into a career aspect as well, and I tell them, "Look, we can only hire you
for a certain amount of time, and we only have the budget to pay you for a certain amount
of time," so I try to make it on that way as well.
We're just going to leave it with...we want you to go away from this training, and this
hands on activity, just thinking with this question in your mind that you can explore
on your own as you consider what you might do next when you go to do outreach with girls.
How you might lead this activity differently than Linda and I did, what kind of activity
you might lead, because you might not choose to do an activity like this. An engineer might,
but you, as a biologist or a physicist, may choose to do a different activity.
We're also going to share some more resources with you later about what other activities
are available, but we just want you to keep in mind, when you go in for your next outreach
event, how will you think about your facilitation skills after we had this workshop just now
on it? I think what's really important is...the girls
have had a great time, just like you, designing that project, doing something hands on, but
you want to leave with something more minds on, and have them reflect on the activity,
and why they did it, and why you chose that. It's important to think about ways that you
can connect the project to the girls' lives and also figuring out how you can connect
the activity to a STEM career. What we'd like to do now is for you to think
about the activity, what you were doing with your partner, and how you might ask questions,
or facilitate discussion, at the end with girls to address these two points.
If we had more time, we would do a pair share, so that everybody would have time to think
and talk with a partner, but I think, in the interest of time today, we'll just take comments,
and questions, and suggestions from the group at large.
Linda, we actually have time, if you want. OK, then we'll zip back a minute. We'll take
two minutes to pair share with the person that you were working on the project with,
to think about girls' lives, on the right hand side of the room, and on this side of
the room, to think about how you would connect the activity with a career in STEM.
For those of you on the webcast, you can also participate in this activity and think about
this design challenge that we just did in the room, building the tallest tower and going
through that kind of engineering design process. Think about, if you were to lead such an activity
with girls, how could you connect it to their lives, and how could you connect it to a career,
your career or somebody else's career, and if there's something in the room with you,
you can discuss it with them or you can just think about the question for yourself.
[background conversations 1:03:06 1:04:33] We'll give you about one more minute to continue
your discussions. [background conversations 1:04:40 1:05:08]
OK, how about if we come together. If you can hear my voice, clap once. If you can hear
my voice, clap twice. If you can hear my voice, clap three times. That's a strategy we use
when our girls start talking too much, to try to bring them back together again.
From this side of the room, can we hear a couple of ideas in terms of how you might
connect the design activity that we just completed with girls' lives? Anybody want to share?
I think what we came up with was that you can basically take nothing and make something.
You can be innovative by just being creative, and using, basically, tools that you just
have in your toolbox, and nothing more. I think that it's basically coming down to being
streamlined and creating something. An idea here.
Everything has a base. Everything must start with some type of base, and once you get your
base, you can always build up, and you have to have...I mean, a base can be your education,
the people you know, the people you surround yourself, the information that you receive,
so you always have to have a base when you're starting anything.
...story to share. One more idea in the back here.
The one takeaway that we had was don't get tunnel vision. Don't be afraid ask and make
adjustments. Don't keep going down a path and not getting outside input, and then you
can see where you can make an adjustment. Great. Thanks for sharing. Now on this side
of the room, in terms of connections to a career...
I do program management and create policies, so it's creating, taking things that are on
the table and then figuring out how they go together to create something that can stand
on its own, and be interactive with the environment. We thought, in your career, you might have
to build something, like this, actually, to restore communications, something happened,
or to reach places that don't have communications right now. They may actually have to build
or design something like this as an engineer. Then, also, working together collaboratively,
because we listen to each other, and that's how we were able to build it. Just one of
us by ourselves might not have thought of it in the time that we had, and that's an
important skill as well. I think that also helps dispel that whole
stereotype about the person who's working alone in the lab, that it really is not that
way in the workforce today. I think one other message, too...I mean, I just saw all of you
really persevering. You fail time and time again with your design plans, yet you kept
on going back until you came up with something, so I think really reinforce that message.
One last comment here. I was just going to say, they might know engineering,
but this gives you an opportunity to talk about civil engineering, talk about architecture,
astronomy. Different things that this shape or structure might evoke in terms of different
disciplines. You know, you built something that might be applicable to X. Not just telecommunications,
but other fields. Really good point, and so many of the girls
that we work with and likely that you'll be working with don't know a role model in those
other disciplines, so just being able to talk about the different jobs really expands girls'
options for what are career possibilities. While this was a reflection to do with the
girls, it really is also very important to be able to debrief yourself on how your outreach
went in terms of thinking about how effective you were with your icebreaker or classroom
management skills. What we encourage you to do is to talk at
the end of your session with girls and ask for their feedback to find out what they thought
worked well and how you can improve next. It really is empowering for girls when an
adult asks them for that kind of input. For the partner that you have, whether it's
working with someone at Girl Scouts or a school teacher or somebody with an after school program,
schedule a call afterwards and let them know you want to become a better role model, so
you want input from them in terms of what you should continue doing and how you can
get better. Folks are reluctant to give feedback. Whenever
we talk with our partners they say, "But role models have given their time. They're so great.
I don't want to say anything that's constructive feedback." But really, just let them know
you really want that. Inside the folder are some resources that
we'd like to share, and these are available online for those of you who are joining us
via the webcast. There is a sheet that is a self reflection for role models so that
you can ask yourself questions about how well it went.
Roshnee had referred to this guide for role models that has a lot more information in
terms of questions to ask or how to structure your introduction to girls. Then for those
of you who are thinking, well what kind of hands on activity can I do that fits with
my discipline? We've got this sheet, Resources to Encourage Girls in STEM, with lots of different
websites, with lots of different hands on activities. Whether you're into computer science
or transportation engineering or NASA related, lots of different hands on activities that
we like to recommend. Lastly, we have got the Get Involved, Make
a Difference guide, which has case studies. It has information from a computer programmer,
a transportation engineer, as well as someone who's a biologist working at a national lab
to give you more ideas about ways that you might think of what icebreaker connects with
your job and what kind of hands on activity to do.
Please think of Roshnee and I as resources. We want to hear about what you do after today,
your successes, any challenges, any ways that we can help support you. We really just want
to thank you so much for being here today to learn how to be a more effective role model
and for going out afterwards sand engaging with girls in your community.
Now we'd like to introduce Laura Edmond and FabFems.
Great, thank you. As Linda said, my name is Laura Edmond and I am with the FabFems Project,
I'm a Program Manager with the FabFems Project. I'd like to say welcome and thank you to everybody
on the webcast for joining us today. We love partnering with Techbridge because they talk
about and focus on what can occur between a visit with you and youth. That's really
talking about how to encourage girls in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics,
or STEM. With the FabFems Project, we like to talk
about how to actually get in the door. As a role model, how do you find programs to
interact with and how do programs find you to make those connections occur? I am with
the National Girls Collaborative Project, and FabFems is actually a project developed
by the National Girls Collaborative Project. FabFems was developed due to a national concern
over the lack of women in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics, and through
the extensive work of the collaborative network, they talked with many girl serving programs
and industries and organizations about how role models are so effective in the classroom
in engaging girls. However, there are barriers to implementation.
Sometimes they don't know where to find role models. They don't know how to vet role models
for coming into their classroom. We've also spoken with many role models who
are very interested in doing outreach with youth, but also it's difficult for them to
find programs to participate with, and also they're not quite sure how to engage their
message or convey their story in a meaningful way.
FabFems is really working on reducing those barriers and connecting role models and programs
together so they can have those meaningful experiences with youth.
The FabFems Project started in 2010 and it began with some seed funding from the Motorola
Foundation, and it really was to connect a handful of women with girls in an online environment.
That was the original purpose. To find those women and to get their information,
we created a simple online registration form where we had them enter their fields of work
and a little bit about themselves and their background. One thing we found is we shared
those girls and with the programs, and they found them extremely engaging just to see
the information, to see the face of women in STEM was a huge impact for girls.
We thought it would be a great idea if we could share these a little more publicly and
get more women's profiles into the database. FabFems was created out of that interest in
having a searchable directory of women who are interested and engaged and want to do
outreach for the girls, and a simple, easy way for programs to find them and to search
from them in their location or by field or topic that their students are working on.
Thank you. This is the FabFems website. This is the main
tool of the FabFems Project, and it is a searchable directory of these profiles of women STEM
professionals. The main audience for the website is role models who entered their profiles,
and then girl serving programs. When we say girl serving programs, we're talking about
any programs that do serve girls to encourage them in science and technology. It could be
a coed classroom, but really a program that has an interest in engaging girls in STEM.
Also we found that the website was very useful for parents and girls themselves to go and
look at a variety of different careers and women out there in the field and read about
their stories and view pictures of their stories. I'd like to also share, because we do have
a diverse audience men and women here and on the webcast, who would like to do outreach
to girls and boys, that we have a partner site called STEMrolemodels.org, and this is
for both men and women to join and it's for outreach to all youth.
Girl serving programs also look at this directory, but it's a more broad audience for that website.
But it mirrors the FabFems website to a T. It's the same type of profiles, same format
of that website. Thank you.
This is what the search function looks like, is you can enter in your location, general
interest. You can just do a broad keyword search also for women STEM professionals.
You can search by ethnicity, you can search by student age range. That's the age range
that the role models would like to reach out to. You can specify if you would only like
to work with high school students or if you'd like to work in an elementary program, you
can specify that type of outreach. You can search by field of work, so they could
search for mechanical engineer and see all the broad arenas that mechanical engineers
work in, whether it be toy design or air conditioning systems. There's such a variety of work, so
they can search that way. Also type of visit. You can specify what type
of visit you would like to do, whether it's an in person visit, a summer camp visit, or
an online role model visit, or a one on one mentoring opportunity.
There's just such a wife variety of ways that role models can participate with girls, and
we like to make this flexible system so you an indicate your preference, and so that programs
and girls can search for a role model that fits their scenarios as well.
Thank you. As a role model, and you're entering your
profile, you enter a short biography about yourself. You upload some pictures, and there's
even a link to upload a YouTube video if you have a video of yourself at your career or
an interesting video about yourself. You also indicate your contact information. This is
primarily for security concerns. We want to make sure that you're a real human with a
real email address and you verify that with us.
It's also that we can have a contact button on your pages if you'd like to be contacted
by these programs to invite you into their classrooms or visits.
You also indicate affiliation. We have affiliations for federal employees, for Society of Women
Engineers, for Girl Scout volunteers, for a wide variety of affiliations, so you can
denote who you work with and how people can best utilize your expertise.
Thank you. Here again I wanted to show the FabFem profile
and that contact button. You'll see up here, this is actually our backend view, so this
is what I see and the rest of our staff sees when they log in. They have an approval tab.
All FabFems are approved by us. We go through and we read the profile content, make sure
it's appropriate for girls. We look at all of the images, all of the videos, any uploaded
content. Anytime anything's edited, it also goes back through our approval process just
so we know what content is on there available publicly for girls to see.
Most programs that we work with, girl serving programs, youth serving programs, have their
own background check method, so we don't do an extensive background check but we do run
all the names through the National Sex Offender Registry, and that email verification check
also ensure that you are who you say you are. You'll see on the profile, it actually extends
down to include all the profile information, all the gallery images, all of your content
on that publicly viewable page. You'll see that contact button there. We don't show your
email on the site. If you indicate that you would like to be contacted, the only thing
that appears is that contact button. That takes you to a secure web form where the person
types in their message, and then that message is triggered from our website directly to
you. You'll read that content and decide if you
want to respond back and continue that communication. Your email information is never displayed
on our website. Thank you.
There's also a resources page where we have resources for role models and for girls and
parents and educators to promote STEM career pathways. For role model resources, we have
information about creating engaging visits. We actually link to the Techbridge materials
because they're so powerful for the visits that you can do in the classroom.
We would like to increase the resources that we have available and offer more career videos
and also classroom activities, such as the one that you did, so that you can easily take
activities back to the classroom to use. Great, and then creating your profile. Much
of the strategies to use in creating you profile are very similar to the ones that Techbridge
was talking about using in your visit. You want to be personal. You want to convey importance.
You want to be relatable to the girls. Just to walk through these a little bit, the work
that you do is extremely important. STEM careers are moving our country forward,
and we need girls to know that. Oftentimes girls are told about the general fields of
science and technology, but they don't necessarily know what they're doing to impact the communities
the girls live in and impact the environment and animals and the country as a whole.
It's really important to convey the importance of the work that you do and the importance
of the work that the girls could be doing. They want to be making a meaningful impact
in the world, so to hear that you're talking about the importance of your career, they'll
think about that as something that they can do to make a positive impact on the work.
Enthusiasm, Linda talked about gushing about your job. Enthusiasm is contagious and girls
come with you on that journey. So if you talk about how much you love your job and you're
passionate about the work that you do, the girls want to be a part of that. They want
to see, they want to be in a career that's very meaningful and relevant to them.
If you show enthusiasm and your love for that, at this point in their lives, they want to
do something they love. So that's really helpful if you take them along on that journey with
them and get personal as Linda and Roshnee said, "It's really important to talk about
your personal lives. You're humans, you have a life outside of your career."
It can seem like non sequitur when you're there to talk about science and encourage
them in science. But really what you're talking about it that science is a good, stable job
and it provides benefits to the girls. And it allows them to identify things in their
own lives that are relatable to you. They know that you're not just a scientist.
You're not just an engineer, you're a whole person that is able to do these other activities.
You're able to have a family. You're able to take your pet, your dog on hikes every
weekend. You're able to go road trips with your families, just like what they want to
do while also doing the important STEM career that you've talked about.
And instilling confidence. It's very important in your profile it's hard because it's a short
written profile. But it's important to explain to the girls that you believe in them. And
you believe in the work that they can do in the future and so talking about believing
in the power of girls will help them believe in themselves as well.
I'd like to show a few quotes from the profiles that are currently in FabFems. "I come from
a blue collar family. My mother was one of nine kids and my father was one of 18, and
not a single person in my family has ever gone to college." That was Hope Lee. That
really helps girls who have maybe come from similar backgrounds, who, they won't have
anyone in their family who has gone to college. They can now know that there's a FabFem out
there who's experienced the same story. It's amazing how one opportunity can influence
a career decision. Hopefully the girls will take that and apply that to their own lives
and think about the opportunities that they've been given or they will be given and to take
a hold of those and really use them to their advantage.
"I've never ended up where I thought I would be but every moment has been worth it, and
every place I have ended up has surpassed my dreams."
These are all very encouraging, inspirational quotes from the profiles that aren't directly
science and technology related, or they're not directly pulled from your career bio.
But they're important messages to convey to the girls. That's some examples of how you
can frame your profiles. We'd like to encourage all of you to register
in FabFems or in stemrolemodels.org to really provide that opportunity to give back and
allow your profile to be searchable or readable by girls out there looking for these positive
role models to mirror. I'd like to, we don't have time right now
to begin creating your profile, but on the tables, we do have a paper template, where
you can begin writing out your bio and thinking about what your profile might be. Then when
you get back to where you have Internet access, it takes about 10 minutes, between 10 and
20 minutes, it's really not that long. But it can be a huge impact to girls, and it's
a very simple test for you to do. All of the participants on the webcast, you
are currently online, so it would be great if you could start your profiles. Just navigate
to www.fabfems.org, and you can begin your login process.
I'd actually, right now, like to turn it over to Monta, who is a FabFem, and she's here
with us today. She can share a little bit about her story as a role model with girls.
Monta: Thank you so much, Laura. I won't take too much time, but I just thought I would
give you a real quick minute on my background and then some of the things I've done as a
federal employee to be able to create role modeling programs for young girls.
I grew up in a small town in West Texas and I was lucky enough to have a sister who was
really into science herself. She's four years older than I am. She would bring experiments
from junior high and high school home and did them with us, the three little ones. That
really just got me hooked and it was my path into science.
I ended up majoring in engineering. I always had the dream to go up into space. I'm a little
bit closer, not quite there yet. But I'm closer and I work for NASA and it's probably, it
really, for me, is a little girl's dream come true.
I love what I do. I love talking about what I do with the younger kids. It seems that
with space, I can often pull in those young kids, boys and girls, because it's just a
cool thing to be able to talk about rocket science. It's very nice.
As a federal employee, though, what I did was create a program called NASA Girls. It's
a very young program. We piloted it last year. We offered 18 slots on a virtual program.
That means with Skype or Google Chat. Women at NASA were paired up with young girls across
the nation. Since it was virtual, we could target girls in the Dakotas where we have
no NASA center and very few federal centers in the science and technology realm. We could
actually give them a mentor. It turned out that the public was really into
this. Parents emailed like crazy. We sent out one tweet to 200 people. It was very grass
roots. For 18 slots, we had over 1,600 students apply. It was incredible.
The first thing I did was I went up to senior management. I said, "Look, here are the numbers.
Parents want this. Girls want this." Boys want this too, so after the pilot, we expanded
it to a NASA boys program. Same thing. I got the idea from teaching my nephew the
ABCs via Skype. I thought, "If I can teach you the ABCs when you're nine months old,
why can't I teach a 12 year old girl how to calculate the volume of the Dragon space capsule?"
Why not? They learn how to calculate. They use equations and math in school, so I could
do that just by talking them through it. They have access to Internet.
Given the resources, it turns out it's pretty popular. We're doing it again this year. I
did that as the federal employee. I know there are barriers for us. Just having to get through
OMB and going through legal. Sometimes it was really frustrating. I know they are.
But I had a role model, Dr. Kaiser, who spoke at the intro. This is literally what she told
me. I went to her, had my one pager. She said, "Let's do it. When we get to the barriers,
we'll just climb over them." That's exactly what we did. She was my champion. I'm really
glad she gave me that chance. It's been really fun.
If you're interested, there are some companies that are trying to model after that, some
centers for creative learning that are doing it.
That would be my biggest advice. If you have an idea, just go do it. When you hit the barriers,
climb them at that point. If you end up having to give up, at least you tried, but you'll
probably come up with something that's impactful. I think that's one of the things as federal
employees that we can do. Thank you for your time.
[applause] Thank you so much. I know we have to let our
webcast participants go, but I just wanted to mention that if you need to contact us
or you would like to contact us, I know the Techbridge resources include their contact
information. Those are all online. As well as FabFems.org includes our contact information.
You can go to that site and contact us. Thanks so much, webcast participants, for joining
us today. Thank you.