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>> WE ARE HERE TODAY WITH AUTHOR BAKER MORROW, WHO
TRANSLATED INTO ENGLISH THE 500-YEAR-OLD ACCOUNTS OF THE
EXPLORER ALVAR NUNEZ CABEZA DE VACA IN HIS BOOK - "THE
SOUTH AMERICAN EXPEDITIONS: 1540-1545."
WHY IS IT IMPORTANT IN THE 21st CENTURY, NOW, TO KNOW
ABOUT THIS 16th CENTURY EXPLORER, CABEZA DE VACA?
>> YOU KNOW, AUGUSTA, WHEN THE SPANIARDS FIRST CAME TO
THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE 500 YEARS AGO, THEY BEGAN A
REVOLUTION IN WORLD THINKING.
THEY MADE IT POSSIBLE FOR ALL OF US TO BELIEVE THAT
THE WORLD WAS ROUND. THEY CHANGED THE PERCEPTIONS
OF MEDIEVAL EUROPE IN REGARD TO THE ACTUAL NATURE OF THE
WORLD. >> WHAT THREE WORDS COME TO
MIND WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT CABEZA DE VACA?
>> FORTITUDE, PERSISTENCE, AND STAMINA.
CABEZA DE VACA IS ONE OF THOSE RARE FIGURES IN
HISTORY WHO ALWAYS LIVES UP TO HIS LEGEND, OR HIS
REPUTATION. HE IS THE MOST INDEFATIGABLE
FIGURE I'VE EVER HEARD ABOUT IN WORLD HISTORY.
HE WAS THE FIRST EUROPEAN TO WALK ACROSS NORTH AMERICA,
AND HE WAS THE FIRST SPANIARD TO PLAY IMPORTANT
ROLES IN NORTH AMERICA AND IN SOUTH AMERICA AT THE SAME
TIME, DURING THE 1500s. CABEZA DE VACA WAS THE
TREASURER OF THE NARV�EZ EXPEDITION TO FLORIDA IN THE
1520s. THE EXPEDITION HAD, BY SOME
ACCOUNTS, 300 MEMBERS, AND CABEZA DE VACA AND HIS THREE
COMPANIONS WERE THE ONLY SURVIVORS.
PHENOMENALLY TOUGH PEOPLE. THEY LOST ALL THEIR CLOTHES.
THEY WALKED ALONG NAKED FOR MUCH OF THEIR JOURNEY.
AND THEY WALKED ACROSS THE SIERRA MADRE, BOTH THE
EASTERN SIERRA MADRE AND THE WESTERN SIERRA MADRE, THE
ENTIRE GULF COAST OF THE AMERICAN SOUTH, INCLUDING
THE WHOLE COAST OF TEXAS, AND, OF COURSE, THEY BEGAN
THEIR JOURNEY IN FLORIDA. SO IT WAS QUITE A TRIP.
>> WHAT DO YOU THINK MADE THE GUY TICK?
>> MOST PEOPLE DON'T THINK OF CONQUISTADORS AS HAVING A
FAMILY BUSINESS, BUT IN THE CASE OF CABEZA DE VACA, IT
ACTUALLY WAS HIS FAMILY BUSINESS.
HIS GRANDFATHER WAS A GENTLEMAN NAMED PEDRO DE
VERA, AND HE WAS THE CONQUEROR OF GRAND CANARY
ISLAND IN THE 1470s. HE GOT A COMMISSION FROM THE
KING OF SPAIN TO LEAD HIS CONQUEST, AND THE
INTERESTING PART OF THAT STORY, AUGUSTA, IS THAT HE
HAD TO FINANCE HIS ENTIRE EXPEDITION HIMSELF.
HE HAD TO FURNISH THE SHIPS AND THE MEN, AND ALL OF
THEIR EQUIPMENT. AND TO DO SO, HE BORROWED
MONEY FROM MOORISH BANKERS, AND TO SECURE THE LOAN, HE
HAD TO GIVE BOTH OF HIS SONS OVER TO HIS BANKERS AS
HOSTAGES. SO WE CAN ACTUALLY SAY HE
HOCKED HIS BOYS TO BECOME THE CONQUEROR OF GRAND
CANARY ISLAND. FORTUNATELY FOR CABEZA DE
VACA, ONE OF THOSE BOYS WAS HIS OWN FATHER.
SO CABEZA DE VACA GREW UP ON HIS GRANDFATHER'S KNEE, ONCE
THE CONQUEST WAS COMPLETE, HEARING ALL THESE TALES OF
CONQUEST, AND I'M SURE THAT MADE A HUGE IMPRESSION ON
HIM AS A YOUNG MAN. >> HE'S DIFFERENT FROM
OTHER EXPLORERS. >> HE'S MORE INTERESTED IN
EXPLORATION THAN IN CONQUEST.
ANOTHER ASPECT OF HIS PERSONALITY THAT'S VERY
APPEALING IN THE 21st CENTURY IS FROM HIS LONG
EXPERIENCE IN NORTH AMERICA, HE REALLY LEARNED TO LIVE
CHEEK TO JOWL WITH THE INDIAN TRIBES ALL ACROSS THE
CONTINENT. HE RESPECTED THE INDIANS.
HE ALWAYS BELIEVED IN PAYING THEM FOR ALL OF THE
PROVISIONS THAT HE GOT, THE CLOTHING THAT HE GOT.
AND HE CARRIED THIS EXPERIENCE ONTO SOUTH
AMERICA. >> YOU TALK ABOUT HIS
UNIMAGINABLE RESILIENCE. HE FACED A LOT OF DANGERS, I
MEAN, IN HIS PLIGHT, AND EVEN TO SOME DEGREE HIS OWN
MEN WOULD TURN AGAINST HIM. BUT YOU COULDN'T KEEP HIM
DOWN. >> THAT SEEMS TO HAVE BEGUN
FROM THE VERY MOMENT HE GOT THE ROYAL COMMISSION TO SAIL
TO SOUTH AMERICA AS THE SECOND GOVERNOR OF THE
LA PLATA PROVINCE. AFTER HIS GREAT TREK ACROSS
NORTH AMERICA, HE WAS A HERO IN MEXICO, AND HE WROTE AN
ACCOUNT OF HIS NORTH AMERICAN JOURNEYS THAT IS
ONE OF THE FOUNDING PIECES OF LITERATURE IN AMERICAN
LITERATURE THESE DAYS. >> REALLY.
>> HE ALSO WENT BACK TO SPAIN IN THE EARLY 1530s
AND DELIVERED HIS ACCOUNT OF HIS NORTH AMERICAN TRAVELS
TO THE KING, AND SAID, YOUR MAJESTY, I'M INTERESTED IN
ANOTHER JOB, IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING COMING UP.
AND KING CHARLES SAID, WHAT DID YOU HAVE IN MIND?
AND HE SAID, WELL, I'D LIKE TO GO BACK TO FLORIDA.
YOUR FIRST COMMISSIONER THERE, P�NFILO DE NARV�EZ,
IS NOW DEAD AND I'D LIKE TO TAKE HIS PLACE.
THE KING SAID, I'M SORRY, I'VE JUST GIVEN THAT
PARTICULAR COMMISSION TO A GENTLEMAN NAMED DE SOTO, AND
I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING AVAILABLE, TRY BACK IN A
SHORT TIME. SO CABEZA DE VACA HANGS
AROUND THE COURT. ONLY A COUPLE OF MONTHS
LATER, THE FIRST GOVERNOR OF LA PLATA TRAVELS HOME TO
MAKE HIS REPORT TO SPAIN, AND DIES IN THE MID ATLANTIC
ON HIS WAY HOME. SO THE KING SAYS TO ONE OF
HIS ASSISTANTS, WHO WAS THAT GENTLEMAN WHO CAME IN HERE A
COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO? CABEZA DE VACA, YOUR
MAJESTY. WELL, BRING HIM BACK IN.
SO THE KING SAYS, I'VE JUST HAD AN OPENING.
>> SIMPLY PUT. >> SIMPLY PUT, I'VE JUST
HAD AN OPENING, OUR COLONY IN THE LA PLATA PROVINCE,
WHICH IS ARGENTINA, PARAGUAY, PARTS OF URUGUAY,
AND BRAZIL, WOULD YOU BE INTERESTED IN BECOMING THE
SECOND GOVERNOR? YOU NEED TO RESCUE OUR
COLONY, BUY ALL THE SHIPS YOURSELF, IT WILL TAKE 300
TO 400 MEN, PLUS ALL THEIR HORSES AND ALL THEIR
EQUIPMENT, I WANT YOU TO PURCHASE EVERYTHING AT YOUR
OWN EXPENSE, OFF YOU GO. AND OH, BY THE WAY, YOU MUST
BE IN THE SERVICE OF THE CHURCH IN THIS VENTURE OF
YOURS, AND IF YOU MAKE ANY MONEY, I WANT A 5TH OF IT.
DEAL? >> WOW, TIMING IS
EVERYTHING. >> TIMING IS EVERYTHING.
CABEZA DE VACA SAYS, YES, I WILL TAKE THAT COMMISSION
ON. SO THAT'S HOW HE LEAVES FOR
SOUTH AMERICA FROM THE DOCKS OF SEVILLE IN 1540, AND
THAT'S WHERE THIS BOOK CAME FROM.
>> WHERE DID YOU FIND THE RESEARCH MATERIALS FOR THIS?
>> CABEZA DE VACA'S COMMENTARIES ARE REALLY ONE
OF THE RAREST BOOKS IN THE WORLD, AUGUSTA.
ABOUT THREE ORIGINAL COPIES REMAIN.
>> WOW. >> SO I WENT ABOUT TRYING
TO GET AN ORIGINAL OF THE 1555 EXPEDITION, AND I FOUND
A VERY GOOD ONE THAT WAS PUBLISHED IN 1906.
IT'S THE SERRANO Y SANZ EDITION OF CABEZA DE VACA'S
WRITINGS. >> YOU ALSO BROUGHT THE
BOOK TO LIFE THROUGH SOME OF YOUR ILLUSTRATIONS AND
DRAWINGS. >> WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH
A 500-YEAR-OLD BOOK, THE PHOTOGRAPHY PROCESS IN THE
1500s IS NOT PARTICULARLY STRONG.
>> IT HASN'T EVOLVED. >> WHAT I HAD BEEN
INTERESTED IN, FROM THE BEGINNING, IS WHAT THE
PRIMORDIAL AMERICAN LANDSCAPE LOOKED LIKE IN THE
1500s WHEN THE EUROPEANS FIRST APPEARED, AND CABEZA
DE VACA HAS SOME OF THE VERY BEST DESCRIPTIONS THAT WE
HAVE -- >> REALLY.
>> -- OF THAT EARLY AMERICAN LANDSCAPE.
I THOUGHT THAT THE POINT OF THE BOOK WOULD BE BETTER
ILLUSTRATED. >> YOUR TRANSLATION OF THE
ACCOUNTS KIND OF CHANGES HISTORY'S PERCEPTION OF
CABEZA DE VACA A LITTLE BIT. HOW DID HIS LIFE REALLY TURN
OUT IN THE END? >> FOR THE WHOLE 20th
CENTURY, WHEN YOU READ ABOUT CABEZA DE VACA, YOU HEAR
THESE VAGUE REFERENCES TO, OH, THE POOR MAN, HE WAS IN
EXILE. OH, THE KING NEVER
APPRECIATED HIM. ALL THESE THINGS.
NO. SO WITH A CLEAR TRANSLATION,
WHAT WE NOW UNDERSTAND IS THAT CABEZA DE VACA BECAME A
LOBBYIST, PROBABLY FOR HIS HOMETOWN, AT THE COURT OF
THE KING. HE WAS RESTORED BACK TO
ROYAL FAVOR. HE WAS VERY MUCH MOVING IN
ROYAL CIRCLES AGAIN. HE MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE
GAINED ANOTHER POSITION IN THE GOVERNMENT OF SPAIN, BUT
HE CERTAINLY DIED A VERY HAPPY OLD MAN WITH ALL OF
THE WORK THAT HE HAD DONE, PROBABLY IN HIS BED IN HIS
HOMETOWN. >> WOW.
>> IN ABOUT 1559. >> AND LEFT A VERY RICH
HISTORY TO TALK ABOUT TODAY. THANK YOU SO MUCH, BAKER,
FOR SHARING ALL THAT. THAT WAS INCREDIBLE.
>> MY PLEASURE. HE'S A FASCINATING
CHARACTER.