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cc >> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS A SPECIAL PRESENTATION OF THE BIG TEN NETWORK,
PRODUCED IN ASSOCIATION WITH THE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN.
>> EIGHTY PERCENT OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION LIVES IN AREAS WHERE THE PRIMARY FRESHWATER SOURCE IS UNDER SEVERE ATTACK.
ASSAULT THAT COMES FROM DESTRUCTION OF NATURAL WETLANDS, AGRICULTURAL RUN-OFF, AND CHEMICAL AND HUMAN POLLUTION.
THESE FACTORS AND OTHERS THREATEN THE HEALTH OF OUR LAKES, RIVERS, AND THE AQUATIC SPECIES THAT LIVE IN THEM.
HOW DO WE DEAL WITH THIS PENDING DISASTER? CAN WE REVERSE THE TRENDS? FIND OUT NEXT,
DURING "OFFICE HOURS."
HI, I'M KEN GOLDSTEIN, PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN- MADISON.
WATER IS OBVIOUSLY AN ESSENTIAL COMPONENT OF LIFE, BUT DUE TO HUMAN INTERFERENCE, THE WORLD'S RIVERS AND LAKES
ARE IN CRISIS. I'M JOINED BY PETER MCINTYRE, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR AT THE CENTER FOR LIMNOLOGY
AT UW-MADISON. HE IS THE CO-AUTHOR OF AN ARTICLE PUBLISHED IN THE INTERNATIONAL SCIENCE JOURNAL
"NATURE," THAT PRESENTS A WORLDWIDE SURVEY OF OUR PLANET'S FRESHWATER ECOSYSTEMS. THE ARTICLE IS THE FIRST
TO COMPREHENSIVELY CONSIDER BIODIVERSITY, AS WELL AS HUMAN WATER SECURITY. PETER IS PART OF
THE MCINTYRE GROUP, A RESEARCH TEAM WHICH STUDIES ECOLOGY AND CONSERVATION AT THE LEVEL OF THE ORGANISM.
WELCOME TO "OFFICE HOURS," PETE. APPRECIATE YOU COMING BY. TAKE ME, IF YOU WOULD,
THROUGH THE MAIN FINDINGS. 80% OF PEOPLE IN THE WORLD, WATER THAT HAS SOME ISSUES. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
>> AS YOU SAID IN YOUR INTRO, KEN, WATER IS THE MOST ESSENTIAL RESOURCE FOR LIFE. AND SO, WHAT OUR TEAM DID WAS
TO ASSESS THE VARIETY OF THREATS TO FRESHWATERS AROUND THE WORLD. WHAT WE FOUND WAS A FAIRLY SCARY PICTURE.
WE DID THAT ASSESSMENT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF BIODIVERSITY AND ALSO FROM A HUMAN WATER SECURITY STANDPOINT.
AND, OF COURSE, MOST OF US ARE ESPECIALLY INTERESTED IN THE HUMAN WATER SECURITY PERSPECTIVE.
AND THE KEY FINDING WAS THAT 80% OF HUMAN POPULATION-- THIS IS AROUND THE WORLD, SO NOT JUST THE U.S., OR WISCONSIN,
BUT WORLDWIDE, 80% OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION IS IN AREAS WHERE THE RIVERS ARE HIGHLY THREATENED.
AND BY THAT, WE JUST MEAN THAT THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT STRESSORS THAT ARE DEGRADING THOSE RIVER SYSTEMS.
>> TELL ME A LITTLE MORE ABOUT WHAT YOU MEAN BY "THEY'RE THREATENED." AND WHAT ARE THE STRESSORS?
>> WE LOOKED AT 23 DIFFERENT STRESSORS. ESSENTIALLY, YOU CAN THINK OF HAVING A GLOBAL MAP,
THE KIND OF THING YOU SEE IN NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC MAGAZINE. SO, YOU'VE GOT A GLOBAL MAP OF NITROGEN-LOADING.
THAT'S A NUTRIENT THAT CAUSES ALGAE TO GROW TOO FAST. THAT HAS ALL KINDS OF EFFECTS, OXYGEN DEPLETION,
THAT KIND OF THING. THAT'S JUST ONE OF 23 DIFFERENT THINGS THAT WE CONSIDERED. THEY INCLUDE OVER-FISHING.
THEY INCLUDE DAMMING OF RIVERS. A WIDE VARIETY OF THINGS. WE PUT ALL THAT INFORMATION TOGETHER, AND YOU PRODUCE ONE
GLOBAL MAP THAT REFLECTS THE TOTAL THREAT, OR THE CUMULATIVE THREAT TO RIVER SYSTEMS FROM THE BIODIVERSITY PERSPECTIVE,
OR FROM THE HUMAN PERSPECTIVE. >> IN A LITTLE BIT, WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OF THOSE MAPS. TELL ME HOW YOU GO ABOUT
DOING THIS. YOU TALK ABOUT MAPPING FRESHWATER SOURCES AROUND THE ENTIRE WORLD
ON 23 DIFFERENT STRESSORS. THAT'S QUITE AN AMBITIOUS PROJECT. >> WELL, IT TOOK US 2-1/2 YEARS.
WE WERE A TEAM OF RESEARCHERS FROM FOUR CONTINENTS. A TOTAL OF TEN OF US WERE REALLY DEEPLY INVOLVED IN THIS.
AND IT WAS AMBITIOUS. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT SETS OUR STUDY APART FROM EARLIER STUDIES,
BECAUSE WE'RE NOT AT ALL THE FIRST TO THINK ABOUT, ON A GLOBAL SCALE, WHAT'S THE CONDITION OF WATER RESOURCES?
BUT WHAT REALLY SET OUR WORK APART IS THE SPATIAL RESOLUTIONS. WE'RE LOOKING WORLDWIDE,
BUT YOU CAN BREAK THE WORLD UP INTO LITTLE, WE CALL THEM GRID CELLS. IF YOU JUST IMAGINE LAYING
A GRID ACROSS THE WHOLE WORLD, AND THAT'S 50 BY 50 KILOMETERS, OR THAT CORRESPONDS ROUGHLY TO 30 BY 30 MILES.
THE ENTIRE WORLD IS BROKEN DOWN INTO THESE LITTLE CHUNKS. AND FOR EACH OF THOSE LITTLE CHUNKS, WE'VE CHARACTERIZED
EACH OF THE 23 STRESSORS. AND THEN, WE ESSENTIALLY ARE SUMMING ACROSS THOSE TO GET THE TOTAL LEVEL OF STRESS.
>> HOW MANY DIFFERENT CHUNKS ARE THERE IN THE WORLD OF ABOUT 900 SQUARE MILES? >> 46,500 AND CHANGE.
>> I ASSUME YOU DIDN'T DIVVY IT UP, AND EACH OF YOU WENT TO 5,000 CHUNKS. SO, HOW DID YOU?
>> NO, A LOT OF THIS DATA COMES FROM REMOTE SENSING FROM SATELLITE IMAGERY. A LOT OF IT--
WE'RE STANDING ON THE SHOULDERS OF GIANTS, AS THE SAYING GOES, IN THAT ALMOST ALL OF THESE THREAT LAYERS HAD BEEN DEVELOPED
BY INDEPENDENT RESEARCH TEAMS WHO WERE REALLY EXPERT IN THAT PARTICULAR AREA. SO, OUR TEAM'S MISSION
WAS TO PULL THIS TOGETHER AND SYNTHESIZE IT INTO THE TOTAL THREAT PERSPECTIVE. SO, THERE'S A WIDE VARIETY
OF SOURCES. SOME OF IT'S ROOTED IN ON-THE-GROUND INFORMATION. OF COURSE, THERE'S ALMOST
NOTHING, WHERE SOMEBODY HAS LITERALLY GONE TO ALL 46,000 SITES AND TALLIED UP THE STRESS SCORES.
THERE'S EXTRAPOLATION INVOLVED FROM PLACES WE KNOW WELL TO PLACES WE DON'T KNOW WELL. >> THERE'S DIFFERENT SCIENTISTS
WHO HAVE DIFFERENT AREAS OF EXPERTISE. ONE MIGHT HAVE BEEN DOING FISH, ONE MIGHT HAVE BEEN DOING
AGRICULTURAL RUN-OFF, ONE MIGHT HAVE BEEN DOING, YOU FILL IN THE BLANK. >> EXACTLY.
>> THEY EACH WOULD HAVE BEEN THEIR OWN INDIVIDUAL STUDY. YOU'RE BRINGING THAT ALL TOGETHER AND MAPPING IT.
>> PRECISELY. WE DEVELOPED A COUPLE OF THE STRESSOR LAYERS OURSELVES. I HAPPEN TO WORK ON FISH.
ONE OF THE ONES THAT WE DID DEVELOP WAS A GLOBAL FRESHWATER FISHING PRESSURE LAYER. BUT THAT'S ONE OF THE FEW
THAT WE ACTUALLY DEVELOPED FROM SCRATCH. USUALLY WE'RE RELYING ON EXPERTS IN PARTICULAR SUBJECT AREAS.
>> IN OUR NEXT SEGMENT, WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT SOME OF THESE MAPS. NOT TO SOUND LIKE THE GEEK
THAT I AM, BUT THAT'S PRETTY INTERESTING, BECAUSE ALL OF THESE 23 ARE INTERCONNECTED. SO IT'S EASY FOR ME TO SAY,
BUT IT SEEMS TO MAKE PERFECT SENSE TO COMBINE THEM ALL. >> ABSOLUTELY. WE DID ACTUALLY LOOK AT
WHAT WE WOULD CALL THE SPATIAL CORRELATIONS, OR HOW CLOSELY ASSOCIATED ARE DIFFERENT STRESSORS ON A GLOBAL BASIS.
SO, IF YOU HAVE A HIGH LEVEL OF NITROGEN LOADING, DO YOU HAVE A HIGH LEVEL OF FISHING, FOR INSTANCE.
AND MANY OF THE STRESSORS ARE ACTUALLY ALMOST UNCORRELATED ON A GLOBAL BASIS. BUT PARTICULARLY THE ONES
RELATED TO CHEMICAL POLLUTION, THOSE TYPICALLY ARE CLOSELY ALIGNED. SO AN AREA THAT GETS A LOT
OF NITROGEN POLLUTION ALSO HAS A LOT OF MERCURY, ETC. >> GREAT. WE'RE GOING TO GO.
WHEN WE COME BACK FROM THIS BREAK WE'LL LOOK AT ONE OF THOSE MAPS YOU CREATED. SO PLEASE, STAY WITH US
ON "OFFICE HOURS." WE'RE WITH PETER MCINTYRE TALKING ABOUT THE HEALTH OF THE WORLD'S RIVERS AND LAKES.
PLEASE, STAY WITH US.
>> THIS PROGRAM IS A PRODUCTION OF THE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON. IF YOU HAVE COMMENTS
ABOUT THIS BROADCAST, PLEASE EMAIL THEM TO: PROGRAMMING@UC.WISC.EDU
>> WHERE OTHERS SAW LUMBER, WE RECOGNIZED A TREASURE. WHERE OTHERS SAW THE NIGHT, WE CHOSE THE STARS.
WHERE OTHERS SAW PIECES, WE UNLOCKED THE PUZZLE THAT COULD MEAN THE END TO PARALYSIS AND CANCER.
SINCE 1848, THINKERS AND ACHIEVERS AT WISCONSIN HAVE FEARLESSLY SOUGHT IDEAS THAT TRANSFORMED THE WORLD.
KEEP ON, WISCONSIN, KEEP ON.
>> WELCOME BACK TO "OFFICE HOURS." I'M KEN GOLDSTEIN, AND I'M HERE WITH PETER MCINTYRE
TALKING ABOUT THE HEALTH OF THE WORLD'S LAKES AND RIVERS. SO PETER, YOU PUT ALL THIS INFORMATION TOGETHER.
AND READING THE JOURNAL ARTICLE, ONE OF THE POWERFUL THINGS IS WHEN ONE SEES IT GRAPHICALLY. THESE 45,000 GRIDS
OF ABOUT 900 SQUARE MILES, YOU THEN MAPPED ON THE DIFFERENT STRESSORS. WE HAVE NOW UP SOMETHING
THAT TALKS ABOUT THE BIODIVERSITY THREAT. I SEE VARIOUS DIFFERENT COLORS THERE.
TAKE ME THROUGH WHAT WE'RE SEEING, AND WHAT OUR VIEWERS ARE SEEING. >> SURE, WE MADE A WHOLE SET
OF THESE MAPS. AND SO IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE COLORS MEAN.
THIS IS FROM A COOL TO A WARM SCALE. BLUE MEANS THAT YOU HAVE LOW THREAT,
AND RED MEANS THAT YOU HAVE HIGH THREAT. AND IT'S JUST A CONTINUOUS SCALE FROM LOW TO HIGH.
SO, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE UNITED STATES, MOST OF WHAT YOU SEE IS RED, THE SAME FOR WESTERN EUROPE,
THE SAME FOR THE INDIAN SUB-CONTINENT AND FOR EAST ASIA THERE. THOSE ARE THE AREAS OF THE WORLD
WHERE THREATS TO RIVER AND BIODIVERSITY ARE HIGHEST. I WANT TO EMPHASIZE, THIS IS JUST FROM THE RIVER PERSPECTIVE.
WE DIDN'T ACCOUNT FOR GROUNDWATERS, LAKES OR WETLANDS. YOU CAN SEE THEN AT THE POLES, AND PARTICULARLY
AT HIGH LATITUDES IN THE NORTH, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NORTHERN ASIA, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NORTHERN CANADA, GREENLAND,
THOSE AREAS ACTUALLY HAVE VERY LOW THREAT LEVELS. AND THE SCALE IS ALL RELATIVE. IT'S SORT OF LIKE
WHEN YOUR DAUGHTER OR SON TAKES THE S.A.T., AND YOU'RE IN THE 90th PERCENTILE, THAT MEANS 10% OF THE KIDS
DID BETTER, AND 90% DID WORSE. THIS IS ON A PERCENTILE BASIS, AS WELL. IF YOU'RE BLUE, YOU'RE IN
THE LOWEST THREAT, 10 OR 15%. IF YOU'RE RED, YOU'RE IN THE HIGHEST THREAT, 15 OR 20%. >> WHAT EXACTLY DOES
"BIODIVERSITY THREAT" MEAN? WHICH OF THE THREATS OR STRESSORS IS THAT? >> WHEN WE TALK ABOUT
BIODIVERSITY THREAT THIS IS THE INTEGRATED PERSPECTIVE FROM THE 23 DIFFERENT STRESSORS. WHAT'S AT STAKE, THE THING
THAT WE CARE ABOUT IN THIS CASE IS AQUATIC BIODIVERSITY. SO, WE'RE REFERRING TO THESE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF SPECIES
OF ANIMALS AND PLANTS THAT YOU FIND IN RIVERS AROUND THE WORLD. THEY'RE SUPPORTING ALL KINDS OF VITAL SERVICES
TO HUMAN SOCIETIES, PURIFYING OUR WATERS, SUPPORTING FISHERIES, ETC., REDUCING TOXIC ALGAE BLOOMS.
LOTS OF REASONS WE WANT TO CONSIDER BIODIVERSITY. AND SO WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE WAY THAT ALL THESE THREATS
WORK TOGETHER TO THREATEN, OR TO SORT OF UNDERCUT THE BIODIVERSITY OF THE WORLD'S RIVERS.
>> LET'S LOOK AT ANOTHER ONE, WHICH IS HWS, STANDING FOR HUMAN WATER SAFETY. BLUE IS GOOD, RED IS BAD.
>> EXACTLY. YOU DON'T WANT TO LIVE IN A RED AREA. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS
IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT ABOUT THIS FIGURE, IS THIS IS THE ADJUSTED HUMAN WATER SECURITY THREAT.
AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS WE'VE TAKEN THE BASIC ANALYSIS THAT WAS SIMILAR TO THE BIODIVERSITY ANALYSIS
WE LOOKED AT A MOMENT AGO, AND NOW WE'VE ADJUSTED THOSE VALUES TO ACCOUNT FOR SOCIETAL INVESTMENTS
IN WATER RESOURCE MANAGEMENT. SO, INCREASING THE ACCESSIBILITY OF WATER, PURIFYING WATER BEFORE IT'S USED BY PEOPLE,
THINGS LIKE THAT. SO WE START WITH A BASE MAP FOR HUMAN WATER SECURITY THREATS. IT ACTUALLY LOOKS A LOT
LIKE THE BIODIVERSITY THREAT BASE MAP. BUT AFTER WE ACCOUNT FOR THESE INVESTMENTS,
AND I WANT TO EMPHASIZE THAT THESE ARE HUGE SOCIETAL INVESTMENTS, TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS A YEAR, GLOBALLY.
THOSE INVESTMENTS CAN OFFSET THE THREAT LEVELS AND ENHANCE WATER SECURITY FOR HUMAN POPULATIONS.
SO THIS IS THE PERSPECTIVE THAT YOU'RE SEEING NOW, WHERE NOW THE U.S. DOESN'T LOOK SO BAD, RIGHT?
NOW WE'RE KIND OF MIDDLE OF THE SPECTRUM, OR EVEN ABOVE AVERAGE IN TERMS OF WATER SECURITY,
WHEREAS IF YOU'D SEEN THE UNADJUSTED ONE, WE'RE IN THE WORST 20% IN THE WORLD. >> THAT'S AN INTERESTING POINT.
LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE. ONE OF THE POINTS YOU MAKE IN THE ARTICLE IS
THE PROBLEMS ARE JUST AS BAD, WHICH MAY BE SURPRISING TO PEOPLE, IN DEVELOPED COUNTRIES VERSUS
LESSER DEVELOPED COUNTRIES. BUT THE DEVELOPED COUNTRIES HAVE SOLVED THE PROBLEM BY ENGINEERING IT, OR LESS FANCY,
SPENDING MONEY ON IT. >> EXACTLY. >> DOES THAT MEAN, OKAY, THEY SOLVED IT?
AND YOU SAY NO, IT'S NOT. >> THE TRICK IS WE'VE SOLVED IT FOR THE MOMENT. SO, THE THREATS
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, THESE ARE LONG-TERM ISSUES. SO, THE HISTORY FOR OVER A CENTURY IN THE U.S.
AND WESTERN EUROPE IS TO MAKE THESE INVESTMENTS IN TECHNOLOGY. IN ESSENCE, WE'VE GOTTEN REALLY
GOOD AT USING THESE ENGINEERING APPROACHES, HI-TECH APPROACH, TO PUTTING TO REST WHAT YOU MIGHT CALL THE SYMPTOM SET.
WE'RE NOT SOLVING THE PROBLEM, WE'RE JUST ALLEVIATING THE SYMPTOMS. AND SO, THAT'S NOT SUSTAINABLE
IN THE LONG TERM. IT COSTS US A FORTUNE TODAY AND IN PERPETUITY. WE HAVEN'T SOLVED THE PROBLEM.
IT'S GREAT THAT WE CAN GO HOME AT NIGHT, AND WE'VE GOT ALL THE CLEAN WATER THAT WE COULD EVER DRINK AND BATHE WITH,
OR WHAT HAVE YOU. WE'RE LUCKY TO HAVE ACCESS TO THAT KIND OF WATER SECURITY HERE IN THE U.S.
BUT IT'S NOT BECAUSE THERE AREN'T THREATS. THAT'S THE ISSUE. >> WE'LL CONTINUE OUR
DISCUSSION, AND LOOK AT ONE MORE MAP. SO PLEASE STAY WITH US. WE'RE WITH PETER MCINTYRE,
ASSISTANT PROFESSOR AT THE CENTER FOR LIMNOLOGY, AT THE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON
STAY WITH US ON "OFFICE HOURS."
>> GREAT PEOPLE IS OUR CAMPAIGN FOR NEED-BASED SCHOLARSHIP AID. IT'S THE KEY TO THE LONG-TERM WELL-BEING OF THE UNIVERSITY
AS A WHOLE. >> IN 1970, TUITION COST ABOUT $500. >> TODAY, IT'S ABOUT $9,000.
>> WE DON'T WANT UW-MADISON TO BE A UNIVERSITY THAT IS DEEMED TO BE OUT OF REACH. >> THE GREAT PEOPLE SCHOLARSHIP
GIVES STUDENTS A CHANCE TO SUCCEED IN LIFE. >> SUPPORT THE GREAT PEOPLE SCHOLARSHIP.
VISIT: UWGREATPEOPLE.ORG
>> WELCOME BACK TO "OFFICE HOURS." I'M KEN GOLDSTEIN. JOINING ME IS PETER MCINTYRE,
ASSISTANT PROFESSOR AT THE CENTER FOR LIMNOLOGY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON. PETE, WE'RE GOING TO GO
TO ANOTHER ONE OF THESE MAPS WHICH IS, I THINK, COMBINING THE FIRST TWO MAPS. LET'S GO TO THAT, AND HAVE YOU
TAKE US THROUGH THAT. >> ALL RIGHT, SO, KEN, THIS IS THE DUAL PERSPECTIVE. THIS IS NOW BASICALLY ASKING,
ARE WE ABOVE AVERAGE OR BELOW AVERAGE FOR BIODIVERSITY THREATS AND FOR THE ADJUSTED HUMAN WATER SECURITY THREAT?
IF YOU'RE IN AN AREA OF THE WORLD THAT'S RED, IT MEANS YOU HAVE ABOVE AVERAGE THREAT LEVELS
FOR BOTH BIODIVERSITY AND ADJUSTED HUMAN WATER SECURITY. IF YOU'RE YELLOW, LIKE MOST OF NORTH AMERICA,
THEN YOU HAVE ABOVE AVERAGE SCORES FOR BIODIVERSITY, BUT BELOW AVERAGE SCORES FOR HUMAN WATER SECURITY.
BASICALLY, MOST OF WHAT YOU SEE ON THIS MAP, ALTHOUGH THERE ARE SOME OTHER COLORS, IT'S MOSTLY YELLOW OR RED.
IF YOU LOOK AT INDIA, OR YOU LOOK AT EASTERN CHINA, MOST OF EQUATORIAL AFRICA, THOSE AREAS ARE ALL RED.
THESE ARE REGIONS WHERE A HUGE PROPORTION OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION IS FOUND. AND YOU HAVE VERY HIGH THREATS
TO BOTH BIODIVERSITY AND ADJUSTED HUMAN WATER SECURITY. WHAT THE ADJUSTED MEANS HERE, IT'S ACTUALLY VERY IMPORTANT.
IT MEANS THAT THE INVESTMENTS IN PROTECTING HUMAN WATER SECURITY ARE NOT VERY HIGH. THEY'RE NOT OFFSETTING
THE SORT OF FUNDAMENTAL THREAT LEVELS. IF YOU NOW LOOK AT WESTERN EUROPE OR AT NORTH AMERICA,
THOSE AREAS ARE ALMOST ENTIRELY YELLOW. THAT MEANS BIODIVERSITY IS IN BAD SHAPE, BUT WE'VE MANAGED
TO ALLEVIATE THE THREATS TO HUMAN WATER SECURITY THROUGH INVESTMENTS. >> LET'S FOLLOW UP
ON A COUPLE POINTS HERE. AS YOU LOOK AT THE MAP, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THERE IS TREMENDOUS AMOUNTS OF RED,
BUT A LOT OF THAT RED IS POPULATED IN PLACES WHERE THERE ARE TONS OF PEOPLE, INDIA AND CHINA, FOR EXAMPLE,
AND EQUATORIAL AFRICA. THAT'S AN ISSUE. AND AGAIN, AS YOU LOOK AT PLACES LIKE UNITED STATES
AND NORTH AMERICA. YOU KNOW, AGAIN, LET ME COME BACK TO THIS QUESTION. THERE ARE ISSUES
WITH BIODIVERSITY, BUT WE'RE ENGINEERING AROUND IT. SO WE FIXED IT. >> WE FIXED IT FROM A HUMAN
WATER SECURITY PERSPECTIVE. THE REASON THAT WHEN WE LOOKED AT THE MAPS, WE JUST SHOWED BIODIVERSITY THREAT,
THERE IS NO ADJUSTED BIODIVERSITY THREAT IS WHEN WE FIX THINGS FOR HUMAN WATER SECURITY,
WE ALMOST ALWAYS ARE FURTHER IMPERILING AQUATIC BIODIVERSITY. >> HOW WOULD YOU FIX THINGS FOR HUMAN WATER SAFETY?
WHICH COULD HURT IN TERMS OF BIODIVERSITY. >> THERE'S A WIN/WIN STRATEGY, OUR TEAM WOULD ARGUE, WHICH IS
BY PROTECTING WATERSHEDS-- AND THIS IS REALLY EXEMPLIFIED BY THE NEW YORK CITY WATERSHED AND THEIR ACTIONS
OVER THE LAST FEW DECADES, AND THE UPPER HUDSON AND CATSKILL MOUNTAINS OF NEW YORK. A FEW DECADES AGO, THE CITY
OF NEW YORK, HUGE POPULATION BY OUR U.S. STANDARDS, FACED A REALLY FUNDAMENTAL DECISION. DO WE INVEST A HUGE AMOUNT
OF MONEY IN BUILDING MORE AND MORE AND MORE TREATMENT PLANTS AND PURIFICATION PLANTS IN ORDER TO PROTECT THE WATER SUPPLY
FOR THE CITY OF NEW YORK, OR INSTEAD, DO WE TRY TO RELY MORE ON THE NATURAL PURIFICATION PROCESSES THAT OCCUR IN
ALL RIVERS AROUND THE WORLD? THOSE ARE ESSENTIALLY, WE CALL THEM ECOSYSTEM SERVICES. THEY'RE FREE TO US,
PROVIDED BY ECOSYSTEMS AND BENEFIT HUMANITY. BUT IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN THOSE SERVICES, YOU HAVE TO PROTECT
THE WATERSHED. SO BASICALLY, THEY KEPT FORESTS WHERE FORESTS BELONGED. AND THEY PROTECTED WETLANDS
AND FLOOD PLAINS, AND SIMPLY BY PROTECTING THOSE HABITATS, WHICH WASN'T ABSOLUTELY FREE, BUT THE COSTS WERE VERY LOW
COMPARED TO INVESTING IN MORE WASTE WATER TREATMENT PLANTS AND MORE DRINKING WATER PURIFICATION PLANTS,
THEY'VE MANAGED TO MAINTAIN A VERY HIGH LEVEL OF WATER PURITY FOR THE CITY OF NEW YORK AT MUCH, MUCH LOWER COST
THAT HAD THEY CHOSEN THE PURELY TECHNOLOGICAL ROAD. IT'S NOT THAT WE CAN DO WITHOUT DRINKING WATER PURIFICATION
PLANTS IN MODERN SOCIETY. THE REALITY IS THERE ARE JUST TOO MANY CHEMICALS IN THE WATER, SO WE REALLY NEED THOSE THINGS.
BUT IF WE RELY ENTIRELY UPON THAT, AND BASICALLY MODIFY RIVER SYSTEMS TO THE POINT WHERE THEY CAN NO LONGER
BUFFER US AGAINST FLOODS, PROVIDE SUSTAINABLE FISHERIES AND PURIFY THE WATER, THEN WE'RE REALLY STUCK IF WE REACH
A POINT WHERE WE CAN'T ENGINEER OURSELVES OUT OF THINGS. SO, OUR FUNDAMENTAL ARGUMENT IS IT'S CHEAPER AND IT'S MORE
SUSTAINABLE TO RELY ON THESE NATURAL SERVICES. >> WHEN WE COME BACK, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT MORE
OF THE SORTS OF THINGS THAT FOLKS IN THE UNITED STATES CAN DO IN GENERAL AND WORLDWIDE. SO PLEASE STAY WITH US
ON "OFFICE HOURS" WITH PETE MCINTYRE TALKING ABOUT THE HEALTH OF THE WORLD'S RIVERS.
>> THIS PROGRAM IS A PRODUCTION OF THE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON. IF YOU HAVE COMMENTS
ABOUT THIS BROADCAST, PLEASE EMAIL THEM TO: PROGRAMMING@UC.WISC.EDU
>> HI, WELCOME BACK TO "OFFICE HOURS," HERE WITH PETER MCINTYRE FROM THE CENTER OF LIMNOLOGY AT THE UNIVERSITY
OF WISCONSIN-MADISON. SO PETE, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WHAT NEW YORK HAS DONE. WHEN I LOOKED AT THAT MAP,
THERE SEEMED TO BE A LOT OF RED AROUND HERE IN THE MIDWEST ON THE BIODIVERSITY THREATS. WHAT'S GOING ON HERE
IN THE UPPER MIDWEST? >> AGAIN, ALL THAT RED IS THE SUMMATION OF THESE 23 DIFFERENT KINDS OF STRESSORS.
MAJOR ISSUES IN THE MIDWEST WOULD INCLUDE DAMS, AGRICULTURAL RUN-OFF, SEDIMENT PROBLEMS.
WE'RE NOT AN AREA WHERE OVER-FISHING IS A BIG PROBLEM, WHERE AQUACULTURE IS CAUSING ANY PROBLEMS.
WE DO HAVE A LOT OF INVASIVE SPECIES. EVERYBODY HAS PROBABLY HEARD ABOUT THE ASIAN CARP.
THAT'S JUST THE MOST RECENT IN A LONG LIST OF INVASIVES. THOSE ARE THE MAJOR ISSUES. LAND USE PATTERNS, THE
ASSOCIATED CHEMICAL POLLUTION. WE HAVE A BIG PROBLEM WITH COAL-FIRED POWER PLANTS. THAT'S WHERE WE GET MOST OF
OUR POWER HERE IN THE MIDWEST, AND SO THAT'S A MAJOR ISSUE, CREATING MERCURY THAT GOES INTO THE ATMOSPHERE
AND THEN COMES DOWN IN THE RAIN AND POLLUTES OUR FISH. >> SO YOUR ABILITY TO DO THIS STUDY IN FIVE MORE YEARS--
I IMAGINE NOT ONLY DO YOU GET JOURNAL ARTICLES OUT OF IT, RIGHT, BUT IT'S INTERESTING TO SEE THE CHANGE OVER TIMES.
IN THOSE MAPS, YOU'LL BE ABLE TO SEE CHANGE. ARE YOU GOING TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO THAT?
DO WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO CONTINUE TO MONITOR THESE SORTS OF THINGS? >> THERE ARE SOME
BIG CHALLENGES. OUR TEAM DEFINITELY WANTS TO CONTINUE TO LOOK INTO THE FUTURE.
EVERYTHING THAT WE TALKED ABOUT TO DATE, THIS IS SORT OF THE CURRENT STATE ASSESSMENT. WE HAVEN'T YET PROJECTED INTO
THE FUTURE WITH CLIMATE CHANGE, WITH POPULATION GROWTH, WITH SHIFTS IN WHERE PEOPLE ARE LIVING.
BUT ANOTHER REALLY BIG PROBLEM THAT WE FACE, KEN, IS THAT IN THE MID-'80s, COMPARED TO TODAY, WE ACTUALLY KNEW MORE
ABOUT HOW MUCH WATER WAS FLOWING OUT OF THE WORLD'S RIVERS THEN THAN WE DO NOW. THAT'S A FAIRLY SIMPLE FACT,
FROM CUTBACKS IN GOVERNMENT MONITORING PROGRAMS, FROM PRIVATIZATION IN MUCH OF THE WORLD IN THE OPERATION OF DAMS,
OR OTHER MONITORING STATIONS. AND SO IT'S REALLY UNFORTUNATE, BECAUSE WATER IS THE MOST ESSENTIAL OF NATURAL RESOURCES,
AND YET RIVERS, WHICH SUPPLY SUSTAINABLE FRESHWATER TO MORE PEOPLE THAN ANY OTHER SOURCE-- IF WE'RE LOSING THE BASIC
ABILITY TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE AMOUNT OF WATER IN RIVERS, LET ALONE ALL THESE MORE COMPLEX THINGS
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, IT REALLY DOESN'T BODE WELL FOR OUR BEING ABLE TO EVEN ASSESS WHAT THE CONDITIONS ARE, LET ALONE
PROJECT INTO THE FUTURE. SO THAT'S A REAL ISSUE. >> WE HAVE JUST ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT HERE.
JUST THE AMOUNT-- I'M THINKING YOU'D SAY THE PROBLEM WAS WE COULDN'T MEASURE WHAT'S IN IT.
BUT WHY IS KNOWING HOW MUCH THERE IS AN ISSUE? >> YOU CAN IMAGINE, IF I HAD THIS CUP AND I ADDED A CHEMICAL
THAT HAS A DYE TO THE CUP, HOW MUCH WATER WAS IN THE CUP INITIALLY, THAT DICTATES HOW MUCH I CAN DILUTE OUT
THE POLLUTION. THAT'S THE FUNDAMENTAL ISSUE WITH FLOW, WITH REGARD TO CHEMICAL POLLUTION.
OF COURSE, BIODIVERSITY RELIES ON HAVING NATURAL FLOOD CYCLES, AND ENOUGH WATER TO KEEP THE TEMPERATURES LOW, ETC.
THERE ARE LOTS OF REASONS WE CARE ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF WATER IN THE SYSTEM, FROM DILUTION TO JUST MAINTAINING
BASIC HABITAT FOR ANIMALS. >> PETER, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US HERE ON "OFFICE HOURS."
I HOPE YOU'LL COME BY AGAIN. VERY INTERESTING. THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY.
DON'T FORGET, "OFFICE HOURS" IS ON THE WEB VIA OUR UNIVERSITY WEBSITE, FACEBOOK AND TWITTER. TAKE A LOOK AND LET US KNOW
YOUR THOUGHTS. FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON, THIS HAS BEEN "OFFICE HOURS."
THANKS FOR STOPPING BY.
>> THE PRECEDING PROGRAM WAS PRODUCED BY THE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN, IN ASSOCIATION WITH THE BIG TEN NETWORK