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I think the chair is coming apart. Change the chair.
The chair is fine.
Okay, last time we started discussing Yom Kippur.
Please tell us about Yom Kippur.
There were preparations before Yom Kippur.
Preparing for Yom Kippur
meant preparing the Kaparot, the chicken for penance.
And the Kaparot...
Not everyone could have a chicken.
So Father used to buy
a small rooster and a hen.
One for the men. And one for the women.
The Kapparot are done one day in advance.
So we'd join together
and he'd say: "This chicken is my atonement..."
saying the prayer while circling the head.
It was the same for the women.
But what do you do with the chicken?
It has to be slaughtered. Inside... in the yard...
There was a slaughterer at Batei Mahse.
He had a big metal container.
Inside there was sand and everyone would bring... For a fee, yes?
They'd bring the chicken to be slaughtered.
First he checked the wings and legs, to ensure nothing's broken,
otherwise it's not kosher and can't be slaughtered.
And he'd slaughter it.
He'd fold the head, cut it and do the slaughter
and fold the wings in
and throw the chicken and it would twitch
and that's how they slaughtered.
The entire neighborhood would slaughter the Kapparot.
I mean... slaughter the chickens.
And they... They had to pluck the...
the feathers.
That was also done in a tub
and the women stood in a row and talked and plucked the...
Then we ate, we had a piece of chicken.
Because before Yom Kippur we had a chicken.
Now, on Yom Kippur...
we spent all day at synagogue.
We didn't leave.
One of the things my brothers...
my brother Yosef had...
the role of taking the Shofar to the Kotel.
It was forbidden to blow the Shofar at the Kotel on Yom Kippur.
The British didn't allow it. The Arabs objected.
Yes?
And I... maybe you... If you're not familiar with it...
Maybe I'll show you, the plaza at the Kotel on the map.
It wasn't like it is today.
From our home, you exited the gate and went downstairs,
then were steps until the Kotel.
In front of the Kotel there was a sheep pen
that belonged to the Arabs.
I mean, the Kotel was very short.
It wasn't as long as it is today.
If I've touched on that, at the gate...
there was a plaza where poor people sat...
Not on Yom Kippur, on days it was permitted
and they'd hold out their hands for money.
It was a hand-out corner...
And the children, on the holidays, when we were allowed to drink,
we'd stand there with tins of water and a box
for the people who came to the Kotel from the New City who were thirsty.
We'd give them water. Free of charge.
It's a good deed that we'd do.
About blowing the Shofar at the Kotel,
my brother would bring it... the British didn't allow it,
but whenever they blew the Shofar the British caused a commotion.
They hit people with clubs. They beat people, yes?
It was against their law.
They beat people up.
To blow the Shofar we had to bring it to the Kotel unnoticed.
That was part... One year before the war,
my brothers were arrested, by the British,
and we had to get the Shofar to the Kotel.
That was one of my brothers' jobs.
My brother Yossi, I mean.
They said: "What do we do?"
I have the book "Shofars at the Kotel" with a story about Mother.
He sent a note with the Kotel Rabbi to my mother
and said: "I can't bring the Shofar, because I'm not...
"Look... help me... how do I get there."
We just had to blow the Shofar on Yom Kippur.
It's to show that: "We are in the Land of Israel."
It was so very important.
And Mother accepted it.
So someone gave the Shofar to Mother to take home.
Mother kept it in a prayer shawl.
We went to the Kotel with Mother.
At the Kotel,
Many British stood there with Tommy Guns.
With the pouches... with all the gear a soldier has on him.
And they were so tall with...
They searched everyone.
They searched whoever came through...
Mother got in with the prayer shawl.
And we reached the Kotel.
How did she get through?
What? -Didn't they search her?
The British were very cruel
but they were also gentlemen.
They never touched the women.
These days you see a policeman manhandling a woman...
or you see it in the settlements...
The British didn't do that. No matter what.
There had to be a policewoman in order to conduct a search.
They didn't touch the women.
Did you know your mother had the Shofar?
Yes. I told you, I knew everything.
That's why I said, I wasn't a child.
I can tell you a story about childhood but I never had one.
How did you feel when you walked by a policeman, a soldier?
I was nervous. It wasn't easy.
If they had caught her, they'd have sent her to jail
and she was... Who know what they would've done.
So we reached the Kotel,
we used to blow the Shofar on Rosh Hashanah too.
But I'm telling you about the last Yom Kippur before...
before the war. Before the surrender, actually.
So we got to the Kotel and prayed.
The blowing of the Shofar...
is after Kol Nidrei.
We made contact with the man who had to blow the Shofar.
How do we give it to him? The British were standing above.
There was a fence and they observed the Kotel.
There was an entire company, that's quite a lot of people.
They jumped at any move.
We had to give him the Shofar.
Mother said
to the man who got through:
"What's going on? Soon...
"It's the closing service
"and you don't have the prayer shawl. Take it."
So that was the last time they blew the Shofar
before the War of Independence, before the Old City was occupied.
Mother brought the last Shofar to the Kotel.
There was a lot of commotion and beatings,
but we were happy and... There was great joy at the Kotel.
After they blew the Shofar, everyone sang "Hatikva."
When they sang "Hatikva," the British soldiers stood up.
I told you, they were gentlemen.
They stood at attention and everything worked out.
That was the last time the Shofar was blown,
the last year before the surrender of the Kotel.
I'm telling you this story so you know who my mother was.
Now I want to move on to me,
about the Etzel... about me.
Events had already begun...
I mean, the British had to leave.
I remember the declaration. -Do you remember the year?
The declaration that there would be a State,
I'll show you.
I have it written down. I don't know the year
because we didn't say "Nineteen...",
because that was the Gregorian calendar.
We said "Tashach," the year 5708 on the Hebrew calendar.
Besides... it's too much to ask of me.
That I know the year.
When the State was declared,
and people went out in the streets of Jerusalem
to dance the Hora...
The British armored vehicles drove by and we danced on them.
We went to the New City
and we mingled with them.
Then we went back and they threw stones at us
at Jaffa Gate... -Who? -The Arabs.
They always were the enemy, it's not...
They threw stones and tomatoes at me
but my father never gave in.
I remember it as if it were today.
He wanted to chase the person who threw the stones,
and we said... we cried: "Dad, don't go."
Then we reached the Quarter and there was a siege.
Now, back to me.
Our house... It was an Etzel house.
One brother made it back to the Quarter, that was Hayyim.
He got in and my brother Yosef didn't get in.
Next to our house...
The headquarters was in our house.
My uncle Leibel lived downstairs,
and that was the Etzel HQ and the British were about to leave.
By the way, what I'm telling you,
I may be jumping from one subject to another...
Shulamit Aloni was a teacher in the Old City.
But she went to the New City in that last year,
but she was there.
I remember... when I talked about the guide
who went to the rabbi with my brothers...
that was Emmanuel. I remember him.
I mean, he was her friend
so that's how we knew...
So I was
in the headquarters...
when the British started leaving.
Once we had a run-in with the British
and weapons were fired. We knew the war was imminent.
I remember one day he went...
Tavori was the police commissioner.
He was wounded in the Old City.
He was the police chief in the Jewish Quarter.
The police chief in the Jewish Quarter.
We lived on an upper floor in our house
and there were sand bags,
the window looks out over Kfar HaShiloah, Silwan.
I remember after he was wounded,
they let us shoot at Arabs from the window.
But it was so far that we couldn't reach them,
but we let off steam.
I got one bullet to fire with my rifle.
How old were you? -What? -How old were you?
Nearly 10 and a half.
It was an English rifle, that I put over my shoulder.
I suffered from the recoil.
I could barely unload the bullet.
I was downstairs at headquarters and when war broke out,
they bombarded the Jewish Quarter massively.
They wanted to crush the entire Jewish Quarter.
They constantly...
The Jordanians were on the Mount of Olives.
I think at the hotel... I don't recall. Up there, on the Mount of Olives.
They bombarded the Old City.
I was at headquarters
and we made makeshift grenades.
The grenades were made out of
tin cans, with a fuse and a match.
We didn't have vast quantities of grenades.
I'd make the grenades at headquarters.
That's when it began.
I had to look for shrapnel to put in the grenade
and I couldn't find much.
I had to look for glass in windows that were shattered by the shelling.
Or after an attack I looked for shrapnel from a dismantled shell.
I'd bring it there.
I wasn't with Mother.
I was always there.
Then the war started and I delivered notes to the posts.
We didn't have two-way radios.
We had to deliver notes
and get a note back: "How are you? What's going on?"
I'd deliver them. I went to Misgav LaDach, Nisan Bek,
the Hurva and all kinds of places
where Gideon was... His name was Gideon.
In retrospect, I didn't know his real name,
everybody had an alias. All the fighters
had other names.
Later I found out it was Issar
but I didn't know his real name, only while I...
And I'd lead... There were fighters in the war
who had to reach a post and weren't residents of the Quarter,
they didn't know. There were such massive attacks
that they would say: "Zvika, come with me.".
I'd go with them to their post.
Later, I... I mean, now,
after that I thought: "Didn't they think I have to get back?"
He himself held my hand and I went with him.
But back... I went back alone.
Then the food.
My uncle, Leibel,
was... until the Hagana joined the Etzel it took some time.
The Etzel didn't get the food they deserved,
which they had collected in the store rooms.
So I went with Uncle, he was a baker,
and we went to the oven I told you about.
Where they baked bread. With my uncle.
My uncle was everywhere.
I mean, we pumped the water to the hospital.
I led the...
with Uncle... In the Jewish Quarter,
during the war, you didn't see...
Most people stayed in bomb shelters and basements
and sat there.
I didn't know how many people.
Afterwards, I saw how many people in pictures.
There was no one to help evacuate the wounded.
I think...
Later you'd see everyone coming out
but there was no one.
I remember my mother and I went to a house
where we knew there were two young men under the bed
and their mother wouldn't let them out.
I remember it like it was today. Mother came with a stick
and said: "Let them out now.
There are wounded people outside and no one to evacuate them.
"There's no one to evacuate the dead."
They came out, because they had no choice.
I know one of them was wounded.
I want to go back to the war, unless you have something to add.
No... there's one thing... -You want to add?
I'll make it short. I don't... -We really must wind this up.
Yes. Something that happened to me.
I left the post with a fighter
and went through Ha-Yehudim Street
to Nisan Bek.
There was a place, I told you,
where a man sold wine. Yes?
We had to get to the other side.
There were snipers in the street, from the oven to Ha-Meidan Street.
So we decided to go to the other side one by one.
The fighter took me by the hand.
He said: "I'll go first."
I hid and a shell fell.
It crushed him.
I rushed out to see if I could do anything.
Nothing.
That incident... The door and the place,
I won't forget it 80 years later. I can't.
So I run with the note
to the post, to Nisan Bek, to give them the note,
and I have to give the note and they tell me:
"Look, he's gone. He's dead."
I ran back.
I don't have... I have to go back.
The dead fighter was left there. There was no one to evacuate him.
I ran back into the Quarter,
the hospital was near our house, downstairs.
They moved Misgav LaDach Hospital
because the Arabs had occupied the place.
I went down and a shell was fired...
it landed next to one of the neighbors, her name was Eini
and it crushed her
and I was flown against the wall.
Then another shell fell
and I know...
I know no one will evacuate me.
I touch... I can't get up. I'm all bloody. My whole body.
I'm telling you this because I never told anyone.
I don't talk about it. I can't talk about it.
I crawled.
I had to... I crawled over the woman.
I felt the heat of...
It's hard to talk about.
I crawled over a dead body.
And the hospital was several...
some two houses away.
I crawled down the stairs.
I crawled and a doctor gathered me up.
I couldn't stand up, I was all bloody.
They put tourniquets all over me.
Then my brother Hayyim came in...
My brother Hayyim was wounded 3 times in the Jewish Quarter.
Over his entire body. He got wounded and went back...
He came in with one arm wounded with a Sten rifle.
He set the rifle down
and Dr. Laufer asked him:
"Hayyim, what do you say?" He said: "That's it.
"It's the end of us. We have nothing."
So the doctor... He had one anti-tetanus shot.
He said: "I'll give this..."
So I said: "No, doctor, a severely wounded man came in."
I said: "Give it to him."
When did you say this? -I said it.
How old were you? -11.
What I want to say is I was talking about that wine vendor,
and about Eini.
He was wounded. He lost half his butt.
He was full of blood. No one evacuated the wounded,
he came to this little hospital in the basement
and they asked him.
He couldn't talk.
You know what it's like seeing a wounded man
who can't cry, can't shout, can't do anything?
They didn't know him. I did.
I saw him. I can't describe it in words.
I always remember, as a child,
when we rode the donkey and hit him,
the donkey never felt pain.
It's a horrible example,
seeing a mute person,
deaf, who can't say: "Ow." That he's in pain.
Then I... I'll make it short.
They bandaged me and we went to the Luganes houses I told you about it.
Yes?
Where is that? -Luganes, the middle floor of those buildings.
If you want I can give you... I will show you the place.
I was taken upstairs and I lay there. All the wounded lay upstairs.
And then we surrendered.
During the surrender, Abdullah al-Tal came.
To see the wounded
and on the other side- where I told you
that Salem would close the gate, yes?
The Arab mob shouted:
"Kill the Jews, kill the Jews."
They wanted to loot the... all the Jews' belongings.
And... he came in
and looked at me and leaned over and caressed me.
He said: "Does no one pity these children?"
And from there...
We had to be evacuated because the city... the Quarter
was on fire. Everything was made of wood. The windows, everything.
My brother Hayyim was among the wounded and he carried me
on his shoulders and we went to...
the Armenian neighborhood.
Everyone gathered at the school. I lay there for 3 days.
No food, no water. But I want to say
my parents weren't with me.
I was the only child among all the adults.
My mother had to leave the Quarter after the surrender.
They sent them away.
One incident... when you say "Eretz Israel"...
I passed my mother when I went with the fighter and we were bombarded.
Mother didn't say: "Zvika, get in the shelter."
She let me do the assignment.
And she knew I was going.
Did you want her to tell you not to go?
No. I knew. I knew.
She knew I was doing it out of love.
They sorted the wounded and the dead
and who's going to prison and who's...
and the civilians went through the Zion Gate.
I stayed there another two days.
Alone. I stayed there alone.
I wasn't evacuated.
I realized I was alone and forgotten.
So I... cried and they saw me.
They moved me on a stretcher.
The Red Cross was at Zion Gate, the Jordanians.
Our soldiers were on the other side. And they took me.
They took me...
Before that...
my sister came to get me from the hospital,
during the surrender, she said: "Are you leaving him here?"
The doctor said: "He can't be moved, his fate will be like everyone else."
Then she left and I was alone. When I was evacuated,
I said: "Wait, you have... I have two Sten bullets,
"take them from my pocket, give them to someone to use."
I kept them with me the whole time.
When I was moved to the Israeli side,
I took out the bullets and said: "Take them."
They said: "Thank you, thank you."
They took them at Har Zion, yes?
Everyone gathered at the church.
They put me in a corner. No one came over to me.
They left me. No food or drink for 3 days.
No one even looked at me. I was a child, lying there.
And you say... a child, lying there.
I didn't know what would happen.
No mother, nobody. I didn't know where they were.
I crawled on the floor
all the way down from Zion Gate.
There was a hospital for dogs.
There was a bus vacating people to Katamon.
I got on it... people were pushing... No one even looked at me.
People just wanted to survive.
There were two handles in the bus and I grabbed them
and got on the bus.
They let us out at Katamon,
somewhere,
and I'm alone.
I was wearing the clothes I was wounded in.
They didn't change my... no robe, no nothing.
They were my clothes.
Everything was dry and smelly.
My sister Malka came, the one from the city.
The one that told Father...
She came up to me and what was my first question?
"Where's Yosef?" and she...
without missing a beat, she said:
"He was killed."
There was a clinic.
They took my bandages off, put on some iodine.
There was a building where everyone gathered.
Four families in one room. Yes.
Because we were from the Old City, yes?
I don't believe people who had to leave other places that fell...
They weren't treated this way.
Then my mother... We had a bathtub,
that's where they sat.
They didn't sit shivah because we couldn't... there was nothing.
I ran with this thing...
In the middle of the night
when they removed all the... They left me with a hole.
I have shrapnel in my leg, and here, and in my hip
and my entire body. I had a hemorrhage.
My leg started bleeding a lot.
I put my little finger in. My finger was small, I put it in...
then my sister looked for... she had...
she looked for a sterile bandage,
she put it on
and they carried me to the hospital. Not by ambulance, yes?
There was no one to talk to until we got to Bikkur Holim Hospital.
That's where my father was. I was there for a week
and I had to see all the atrocities in that clinic.
I want to tell you one thing, that people must know.
My uncle Leibel, and this man Yoske,
they would bury the dead,
and there was a small field near Rothschild House.
They buried them on top of one another.
They laid down a wooden plank, stones,
and put one on top of the other, with barely a marking.
And my uncle said: "Zvika, Hershel..."
Zvika is Hershel in Yiddish.
"Hershel, get up, do a mitzvah.
I didn't even ask: "What?"
I went and they took the dead.
They put...
He said to me in Yiddish: "Get me a rock."
We put down rocks.
To put them one on top of the other.
Afterwards he said...
there was a man with no arm,
he said in Yiddish:
"Get the arm..."
I ran to get the arm...
I was an 11-year-old boy. I went to get an adult's arm.
I didn't give it a second thought.
Then it haunts you.
I couldn't erase it. I didn't sleep at night.
I'm treated to this day at a trauma center. I can't.
I take pills. I... I can't.
That was one war. Then there's the Sinai War.
I saw battle. I was in the commando in the Six Day War.
The armored corps. Constantly with the dead.
The Yom Kippur War in the Golan Heights.
Taking dead soldiers out of tanks... all those things...
It was all... How can anyone take it?
And after all that I come to the government offices with my CV
with a story, a resume, all those things
and you're thrown out. No one pays attention.
You go to the doctor, he stands there with a tape measure
and measures the length of the wound.
Did I ask for money? I don't want money.
I asked for nothing.
I asked to be treated. I'm in pain, I want treatment.
That's my story.
Thank you for sharing with us.
Look, it's...
having a wonderful family,
work and everything...
Life is not easy.
The kids went to school, they all have degrees,
good jobs, and I'm well off.
I didn't go to school. I didn't even finish school.
I couldn't.
I'm telling you these things,
I sat in school
and I couldn't concentrate.
It all came back to me... I wasn't there.
The teacher used to hit me because I wasn't focused.
I couldn't.
I didn't tell my parents. I couldn't tell them.
Why not? -I couldn't.
They were shattered, I couldn't add to their suffering.
You can't imagine. When a son dies,
they're like the living dead.
People are shattered.
There was no time to think during the war.
Afterwards, everything came out. It's a sickness.
My mother fasted twice a week.
There was no... you know what?
There was no Kotel to cry at, there was nothing.
Nothing...
I can tell you I used to get...
I'd get nauseous.
Can you imagine having to hold an arm like that?
It's something.
I couldn't tell.
They'd say: "Wait, he has..." and I'd throw up.
"Does he have a stomachache? Maybe he has worms?"
They put some oil on my stomach.
I never told my parents how I feel.
But my mother knew where it was, she saw Eini,
because she wasn't far from her.
Was there anyone you could talk to? Your brothers...?
No one. My brother was a POW.
He came back severely wounded
and it took him time to recover. He never asked me.
You know what?
I'm mad at my brother for never asking me.
He came to the hospital and never even asked:
"Can I get you some water?"
I say to myself:
"Your little brother is lying there and you say nothing."
Why am I saying all this? Everyone talks about their courage,
but those children who fought in the Jewish Quarter...
the Nissim they're talking about, yes?
He was in my class.
We were in the same class, the same age. Yes?
We spent time together.
Just a while ago they started talking about...
The newspaper said...
pictures, nothing. No one cared about us.
Now my grandson says: "Wait,
"I want them to give you... demand a medal."
What? -The medal from the Independence War.
I think I deserve it.
That's why I'm telling you all this,
and I'm telling you that no doctor...
except the one who received me and gave me...
I'll show you the letter from Bikur Holim Hospital,
no one asked me: How did this happen?"
Finally, I want to say: I love my country.
I'll give anything for the country.
And those people who do all kinds of crooked things
I don't care about them.
They won't destroy my love for my country.
It's mine and my family's.
Did you tell your children what you went through?
I did.
My grandson... This week when I was...
He came to Jerusalem with me, I told him.
But it's hard for me to discuss my trauma.
I don't want to pass it on.
I didn't tell my wife for many years.
When I toss and turn in bed, she's the one that feels it.
I'm honored to have a wife like her. Yes.
She supports me and I support her.
That's love.
Yes, it's...
Look, in retrospect, later,
when she told me her story,
she has an amazing story, it's tough.
It's about the Holocaust
and what happened as a result of the Holocaust.
That's why I appreciate her so much.
I know what it's like.
I just hope our homeland survives - remains the way it is.
We'll get through it.
That's it. -I want to take a break...
actually, if you want... I have some more questions.
Go ahead. -To finish the...
I want to talk about your brother, Hayyim, who you said...
Do you have a tissue?
You told us that your brother Hayyim was an undercover cop.
Was that the plan? To be an undercover cop
in the British ranks?
Was that in the beginning or did it happen later? -It's part...
My question is how he got to the police.
As far as you know.
Look, as far as I know...
Being in the police force was a way to make a living.
It was the Mandate police, so...
As far as I know,
it was part of his enlistment to the Underground.
In order to get information
about the British Mandate,
they needed people inside.
That was a part of it.
I'd like to know
how you, as a child... They were gentlemen,
but on the other hand you acted against them.
How did it feel then, not now when you think about it?
As a child, how did you feel about the British?
I thought they should... I didn't like them,
I thought they should leave our country.
They don't belong here.
How did you feel about the Arabs as a child and why?
Look, the Arabs...
When we were one on one, we were friendly.
We didn't hate one another.
When I told you about the man who pumped water
or the store we went to to buy things,
there was no hate.
If the leaders hadn't gotten involved
and built themselves up at the people's expense,
I think we could live with them.
But when the incitement began, they left.
They had to leave.
Do you remember how you felt as a child?
Can you describe how you felt about the Arab you met
in the store where you shopped
or the Arab you saw when you walked by in the market?
When I saw an Arab,
I knew I couldn't turn my back on him.
If I did, he'd stab me.
I mean, an Arab always... We learned that...
I don't know, they're different today.
But they didn't have... When you looked them in the eye,
they didn't have the courage to attack you.
During the war,
the Arabs acted during the day. They were afraid at night.
They believed that there are demons and such.
I want to go back to the family...
Before that, I have a question about the soup kitchens.
I know you were a child,
so perhaps you don't know, but do you remember
who gave the money to the soup kitchens?
I don't know much.
I know they corresponded with Jews overseas
and many Jews donated money
for charity and things like that.
I know it came from abroad.
I'll tell you something interesting about us.
People sent packages from America.
People would go get these packages.
What was in them? Canned meat, some other things,
and it made us feel better. So people went to get them.
It was a type of contribution.
But it was better
than sending money to the leaders.
Someone should look into how the leaders lived.
Did the packages from America go to private citizens?
They were accumulated somewhere and people went to get them
or they were sent directly to us. I had an aunt in America,
she sent us old clothes. They were old but she sent them.
Mother's sister.
When she came to Israel, she called us "schnorrers."
What can you do.
I want to go back to...
You told us what your parents did, rather your father.
Can you tell me what your father did for a living,
what your mother did. Who brought in the money.
Dad worked at any job he could get.
During the British Mandate
he worked in Sarafend.
He worked wherever he could... I'll tell you...
The houses were painted before Passover.
I'd go with my father and help him paint.
But we didn't have a ladder.
There was a long rod with a brush and that's how we'd paint.
It's not the paint you buy today.
It's pieces of stones with water
and from that you make whitewash.
You mix in a little blue or whatever color you want...
We also repaired Primuses (kerosene heaters).
So he was a tinsmith.
If the sewage had to be unclogged, he'd do that too.
Everything to make a living.
Did you work, and what did you do?
I... I began...
After I couldn't go to school.
I couldn't sit still.
I was 13. Education wasn't compulsory.
My mother took me...
I mean I agreed- she didn't force me.
She said: "Learn a trade and you'll be fine."
I took that seriously.
She took me... to Jerusalem, in Romema.
There was a metalworking factory...
She went to a man named Estracher, I still remember his name.
She said to him: "I have a request.
"Take this boy. Give him nothing. Don't pay him.
"Teach him a trade."
But when you lived in the Old City, did you only work with your father?
No, what I'm telling you about happened when I was 13.
That's why I'm asking. I'm focusing.
There was no work in the Old City.
There were no jobs.
We could only volunteer... hand out water,
help an old lady,
move things or something like that.
There was no work.
What were your chores as a boy? Did you have any?
I helped Mother at home with the cooking,
the frying, I liked... helping out, cleaning.
We were very tidy.
We had to keep the house clean because it was crowded.
We cleaned the floors, washed the windows,
but there was... a problem, if a window broke,
there was no money for a new one so we covered it with tin.
Those are some of the things I did for Mother.
These days when I put a pot on the stove,
I think it could nourish four families.
Today we sit at a table, we eat without bread.
Who ate without bread? The bread was round, brown.
You bought bread. If you had bread, you had food.
When the bread dried up,
Mother used to put it in water, knead it,
fry it with onions, salt, pepper, all kinds of...
It was very tasty. I had an uncle... an aunt,
Mother's sister, who had...
He launched public transportation in Jerusalem.
He was one of the founders of Egged bus company.
They lived in Romema, they had an Arab maid,
when we visited them, they gave us meat patties.
We used to say: "Auntie, give us some meat patties."
They had everything.
I forgot... what we were talking about.
Let's leave it there. We play a game after the interview.
I say something and you say the first thing that comes to mind.
What's your name? -Zvi.
What's your happiest memory from the Old City?
Simchat Torah.
The smell of the Old City?
It's hard to say.
The smell was...
the dead people all around, I can't say it.
The smell was horrible. That was the smell.
What's the most moving image you have of the Old City?
Describe that image to me.
Our home on Friday night.
The singing and joy. "Two Banks of the Jordan."
We sang that, it made me the most happy.
How do you feel about the Kotel? -The Kotel?
It's a part of me.
It's like a mother. -Thank you.