Tip:
Highlight text to annotate it
X
joining me is Michael Brooks he is producer the majority report with Sam
cedar also a freelance writer he has a new
article in AlterNet call written with you like lift then what the John Brennan
hearings
didn't tell you aircraft carrier-based drones could expand covert war
around the world so Michael tell us a little bit about what that means we had
this news which was i I guess in the last
10 days or so it broke about drones being launched of
aircraft carriers and and how that could potentially change
how drones are being used how could it more broadly speaking change the entire
picture
what it could do is some pictures emerged
a drones on aircraft carriers actually a in know that this past November
I and what they could do is when you from
when the technology develops and this is still are in process this is a
are completed yet where drones could
fly of aircraft carriers that just adds another layer flexibility the program
sensually
so right now it's operate drones we still need to
establish bases agreements arm you know most controversially search shockingly
recently actually was the disclosure that
we have a drone base in a Saudi Arabia
I we're also establishing a drone bases in northern Africa
and that adds a kind of the layer oppose arm
in some ways geopolitical accountability but also
instability there it's a certain sort shock on this program with the aircraft
carriers that ads
uneven additional layer of flexibility
I in terms of how we operate he's these drones I am kind of hot spots
around the world so it's a potential a game changer in that sense
to play devil's advocate a little bit could it not be argued that
if you're launching drones from whatever kinda a base in whatever country it is
Saudi Arabia whatever it is
that their there is at least at the very minimum
implicit agreement with with the that drone program from the host country
and therefore the the blame or criticism for strikes launch from there
could at least be somewhat assigned to two parties the US
and that host country whereas if you're coming off the aircraft carrier
does it in a sense not make it a little bit cleaner in that there are no other
parties to point the finger at
well I right i mean a and that's the question is how clean do we want to make
it right
so I D one of the aspects and the drone program that is
indisputable so far as that certainly a lot of countries like
I yeah and then I pocket style and I think it's changed more easily in
Pakistan I think that the
Government of Pakistan is more adj sorted genuinely opposed to the strikes
but a lot of host governments that neither
on implicitly or pretty directly %uh supported this program any
use up this technology pretty aggressively I and you're right I i
think that if we if we moved to an aircraft carrier based model
what you might see is you might see even greater flexibility in the executive
branch to
I use these things as potential even less oversight
and you also are lose the where you're talking about which is some type
reciprocity arm it as regards
with regards these basic agreement so as an example on
on these years in Bassett or at United States recently told CNN that
you know that his country be hosting some drones but they will be used for
surveillance purposes and that was the kind of condition that they were putting
on them
we moved aircraft carriers it could potentially take away
on the even more kind barriers to the program that has its upsides and
downsides but
it it will you know certainly at take away some know where you're talking
about
to terms a shared responsibility we've been super critical
love the drone program on a number of different fronts on this show for a
while now and I've gotten some pushback from progressives on two fronts
about this one front is you know
for all the criticisms that progressives have about the drone strikes there
their criticisms would be identical if it were a Republican in office who is
expanding the drone program but
Republicans are only being critical now because it's yet another thing they can
criticize Obama for and they wouldn't be criticizing Romney potentially for that
so in a way are isn't this becoming
I don't want to say help but isn't this somehow fueling
the republican agenda in the sense that you've got something that Obama is
taking heat on from both sides that he otherwise
that another president wouldn't well right I mean I think we need to this
aggregate a couple issues here I mean I think
first I you know some other criticisms that Obama
receives from progresses is arm
it's heartening and it's important because there are certain issues that
look
regardless it was executing it if you have a value set you have a strategic
you I I've how the world should work in what the team's policy should be
as any president is contradicting and it doesn't matter who the president is that
and i agree with you on that the issue is
we we have that on our side but the republicans don't they just are making
critical for political reasons
that's absolutely right the republicans don't I think the republicans don't have
credibility on this issue
so I think obviously when are
you know someone like Joe Scarborough other guys just kinda use it as a
conjul to say always at the Obama administration being hypocritical are
democrats being hypocritical
that's also just not the main issue here the main issue here is actual policy so
in progress is getting to criticizing some the consequences the actual policy
that's very distinct from getting in some kind of process the bay
about comparing the bush in the Obama administration's and frankly look I
think
you can still make a strong case more broadly in some respects for the Obama
foreign policy
are and there are successes there have been restraints in other areas that are
really legitimate and important to highlight
and that said you know I don't even think the fundamental issue in some
respects is the
technology drones per se it's how they're being used that's how they're
being relied on
I and there's humanitarian argument against that there's also strategic
argument against it because what you seen is
you they've decapitated a lot kind traditional conventional
al Qaeda that's the success and there's been these
really significant humanitarian consequences
along with that then there's the legal consequences if things like kill lists
the power the executive branch in the third component which
you might potentially see over the next couple years you're racing in places
like Molly
is al Qaeda sorta decentralizing a pass the sizing
on and potentially getting more resilient because fundamentally just
like Obama said recruiting
bush you don't get to the underlying causes these issues
you're not really fundamentally gonna solve them and drones
are almost too convenient to politically is
tactically appealing because it allows you sort of get away from other that
we're through long-term structural things that need
to be addressed and I think you know progressives realists anybody with a
serious interest in foreign policy needs to
articulate be serious about as I they do a demon Ising Obama
or anything like that well you just have taught you touched a little bit on
the humanitarian and strategic which is kinda in the limited time we have left
but i wanna talk about which is the other progressive pushed back I've
gotten which is
my criticism seems to be framed and under the umbrella that
if we weren't doing the drone strikes we would be doing nothing
and that it's just its debts fantasy land in other words pragmatically
speaking
what we would be doing without the drones would lead to even more civilian
casualties
so is this a killer I I feel a little weird saying
its leading to less civilian casualties then the
other plans would at it just doesn't feel right but progressives are
increasingly
sending messages to me like that well the trouble is with that though that
this is where see again we have to decide your gate
the technology in another itself and and I think that right there is no typer
proof that drones cause more civilian casualties and other types the warfare
but when you start talking about something like a signature strike and
signature strikes air strikes that are based off a
behavioral predictability about people who aren't no
so you're a pop star ni I meet now
between 20 and 30 in your in a certain area we're gonna hit you would assume
you're guilty
when you start doing strikes like that and also double tops
which is another %uh aspect the job program which means that
100 those yeah II yeah I one another
in the area has been hit you come back a couple hours later
and you hit the same area which means that armored to see response vehicles
and people like that don't wanna go in
and kinda rescue people take people out because they know another what's coming
those things by definition are gonna get us away from really understanding
what types filling casualties were even talking about in
so that's a really hard debate have because went but when you get into by
definition
we don't exactly know what's what is what
then then it's its problem at even have that debate and that's another aspect
about this program there's some level disclosure and understand he needs to
happen
in order for any of us whether we're defending and are criticizing it
to have national debate about it are we didn't get everything but there will be
plenty more opportunities to talk about the drone program in all its associated
a issues and questions michael brooks producer the majority report with Sam
cedar
check out his code written article with Eli Clifton AlterNet
about the on aircraft carrier-based
drone expansion to the drone war Michael thanks as always
a great talking with him and thought the same