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>> Hello and welcome to the second and time webcast on the
OneCPD CA plus notice of funding availability for fiscal
year 2013. My name is Diedra love, and I'm
a CPD specialist in the technical assistance division.
Joining me I have two of my fellow colleagues who will be
presenting, and they'll introduce themselves.
>> Good afternoon. I'm Lauren dean.
I'm deputy director of the technical assistance division
within community planning and development.
>> Good afternoon. My name is Sarah Shaeffer.
I work in hud's office of policy development and research, and I
am a technical assistance liaison.
>> Hi. Thank you, ladies, for joining.
Right now as you can see on your slides, I'm just going to
briefly go through our agenda the items that we want to point
out. The main focus of this webcast
is we want to provide the key features of this OneCPD to
provide elaboration as well as clarification on the specific
items that have changed from prior years.
And also we'll get into the approach for this OneCPD TA
NOFA it differs from priorses so we will touch on what makes this
different. And then the bulk of this
webcast and we'll go into questions and answers from
potential applicants. So this is where you'll see us
answer questions that we received that will be very vital
to the completion of this process.
And then finally, we'll wrap up with providing resources to help
you at the conclusion of this webcast, I'm sure many of our
viewers will have many more questions and we'll provide
different areas where you can get those answers.
So that's the structure of our webcast.
Right now I will goa -- go to Lauren dee who will go into the
details of the features of this. >> Some of this maybe will be
new to you, if we have first-time applicants and others
of you may have had some experience and kind of
considered a review. And we will be covering some
things today that will be new for everybody.
The new TA is designed to help grantees of hud, subgrantees,
other providers perform or operate their programs in
accordance with the policies and the rules of the program, and
also just perform as effectively and efficiently as they can so
with increasing the capacity to operate the programs, also for
some grantees that may be running into difficulties with
financial issues, technical assistance is designed to help
bring grantees into technical compliance with hud and the
federal government. Another key feature is
especially in this environment of limited resources at state
and local levels, and and market conditions changing and reduce
the affordability, it's really for how programs are designed
and work together to help perhaps in the redesign or
structuring, so again, use resources as best possible for
affordable housing community development and economic
development. So how do we carry this out?
There's actually very many types of technical assistance
activities falling into maybe four key categories.
First is needs assessment. So this involves going to a
community or a state that's been identified a in need of TA, and
doing an overall assessment of their staff, of, you know, other
resources in the community to see really and get an
understanding of what are the needs.
From that flows a plan for direct technical assistance
which involves going on-site almost always and providing
assistance to the grantee and perhaps to their subgrantees
concurrently that will help them, such as developing
policies and procedures or changing financial systems or
changing our roles and responsibilities.
Even specific skill training. Another activity that's funded
through OneCPD plus is a development of tools and
products that have a broader reach to assist the broad number
of grantees, tool kits, manuals, things of the sort, curriculum.
And lastly, of course, there are some learning tools and
curricula that are developed that one could take sitting at
their desk or in a group learning environment.
CPD is also called cross-program and placed based approach,
meaning it doesn't look at a single program within a
community or jurisdiction, but can look at multiple programs
such as CDBG and home and HOPWA all together to see where their
needs are and to provide TA across the board.
>> Thank you for that, Lauren. You touched on a little bit of
in the beginning, you mentioned housing and this cross-based
approach, and I know Sarah, you work in that capacity as
coordination between our office of public and Indian housing as
well as our office of housing, so I'd like to hear more on this
key feature of this cross-collaboration approach to
OneCPD plus. >> Thank you.
Thank you for having me today. As Lauren mentioned the
co-collaboration between OneCPD as opposed to how it
used to look, it looks across programs Tlooks holistically at
the programs grantees are using and how they can be improved and
so as part of that, we thought why not try to extend it not to
just CPD programs but also multifamily and public housing,
recognizing that within a community all of these factors
and programs interact with each other.
They're not operating in silos on separate floors of a building
like we do here at hud. So as such, we have this
OneCPD plus, so the plus is that this year, our public
housing office, our multifamily housing office and our office of
housing counsel have all contributed funding to the
OneCPD plus NOFA and will be awarding that funding to
technical assisting activities along with CPDs.
So for example, applicants or potential providers will be
asked to do things like do a needs assessment and direct
technical assistance for a public housing authority.
They may be asked to develop various tools that could help
owners of multifamily housing figure out how they could
preserve or recapitalize properties.
And you may be asked to help us figure out how we can build the
capacity of our housing counseling agencies so that they
can better reach underserved populations.
So it's really, you know, kind of innovative in that we're
trying to look, you know, beyond sort of our traditional silos.
>> Okay. Thank you for that.
So it sounds like it's a major paradigm shift from how maybe
technical assistance was previously administered.
>> Exactly. >> Okay.
And on that same vein, the approach to this OneCPD plus,
can you talk on that? We've heard a lot of the buzz
words going around, cooperative agreement.
>> I would be happy to speak about that.
So for those of you who have been involved with OneCPD in
the past, some of this will be familiar to you but I
specifically want to talk to those of you who are new
applicants and for those of you who may have traditionally
worked with our public housing programs or multifamily housing
programs or housing counseling, so I'll start with cooperative
agreement and then go into demand response.
So OneCPD+is administered through cooperative agreements
which is different from a grant agreement and different from a
contract. A commentive agreement involves
significant government involvement, which essentially
means that you as a TA provider would be a partner with hud.
So hudz will be very involved in the development of the TA
strategy, reviewing all of the products, providing input on the
products or type of TA delivered.
This is quite different from a contract.
Typically when you do a contract, hud writes a statement
of work or performance work statement that details in great,
great specificity exactly how many web nars, how many widgets,
all of this you are going to do. I think technical assistance is
tough because it's hard to anticipate really far in advance
what kind of needs our grantees and stakeholders are going to
have or what kind of new rules might come out or for example
with hurricane sandy we couldn't have anticipated needing TA to
help people recover from that. So a cooperative agreement
allows us to be more flexible and nimble in that the exact
activity is not defined up front.
So that kind of goes into this demand response thing, which
sounds really intense, and I promise it's not.
But it essentially means that hud once a provider is in
cooperative agreement with hud they wait to see what TA needs
they have. As needs bubble up on what
public housing agencies need help or what grantees need help,
then we will then assign that task to one or more of our
providers based on their skill set expertise and you did hear
me correctly. Providers.
You may be asked to work with your colleagues that are also
OneCPD+ providers. The provider then based on what
information hud gives them comes back with a work plan, so they
say, you know, recognizing that this jurisdiction is struggling
with X, Y, and Z, we propose to approach this by doing A, B, and
C. And then it's sort of a
negotiation. Hud says well, we think that
sounds great but what about this?
Or this is really not the approach we want to take.
So it's very much a partnership and a negotiation back and
forth, which I think, it works well for TA.
>> Okay. >> In my opinion.
>> So it sounds like the partnership, that dual dynamic,
that's the main differentiation between this OneCPD+, would
you say that? >> It's sort -- it's the
fundamental difference. There are some other things to
keep in mind. For one thing, under contracts,
I think our contractors often charge a fee or a profit above
the cost of the work. You cannot do that under
cooperative agreement. So you can only submit a budget
for the cost. Now, it can cover all of your
costs, overhead, all of that kind of thing, it just can't go
above and beyond so no profits or fees.
There are some other kind of nitty-gritty differences.
There are some OMB circulars that apply versus contracts.
There are differences like that. There are some differences I
think in how we can communicate with our cooperative agreement
TA providers versus our contractors and things like that
so I would encourage any of you who this is really new to to
contact Lauren. Her e-mail is provided at the
end of this webinar to ask your specific questions.
>> Okay. Thank you, Sarah.
>> Thank you for the opportunity to clarify all of that.
>> I think that will be very helpful for a lot of ow -- our
viewers and listeners. So right now shifting focus a
little bit, we're just going to provide a very basic snapshot of
the OneCPD+ NOFA, which is a general overview right now.
I just want to let you all know that the funding amount that's
available for this OneCPD+ NOFA is $16.5 million.
So that's the set amount, and the minimum award amount is
$750,000. So those are two key figures
that as a potential applicant you want to keep that in mind.
Also, the application deadline is July 31st of this year, so
that's in about two and a half weeks remaining, and we point to
that because we don't bawnt want -- want any potential
applicant to rush. We would recommend that you take
the full amount of time because this is a quite lengthy
application, so we would recommend that you use the full
amount of time if needed. And then lastly as Sarah
elaborated on, that the award instrument is a cooperative
agreement. Solely.
We do not have any contracts under the OneCPD+ NOFA.
As you mentioned, the key differences.
So if you want to rewind this as you watch this later, I would
recommend doing that. And then also, that multiple
awards will be made under this OneCPD+ NOFA.
So again, that's just a general snapshot that we want all of our
applicants as well as specifically our first-time
applicants to keep in mind. So right now I'm going to have
Lauren dee to elaborate a little bit about the different nuances
and components to the OneCPD+ because we've mentioned a lot of
the differences, but I want Lauren to really elaborate on
this concept of a general section.
So could you talk a little bit? >> You know, I would be happy to
do that. I wanted to make one or point,
if I may with regard to allowing enough time for your
application. Not only for the preparation but
if you have not submitted to grants.gov before, it is highly
recommended that you read at least 48 hours to sort of go
through that electronic system. You wouldn't want to be there at
11:58 and find that it's not going through.
So I just thought that would be helpful for newbies as well.
>> Thank you. >> The other thing to just know
is that there's actually two NOFAs that you need to be
aware of. The first is general to all of
hud. It's shorthand is called the
general section or general section to hud's NOFA.
This lays out requirements again that are there for all hud grant
applicants and kind of considered threshold
requirements to be able to also get one of our OneCPD+ grants.
So if you look at those criteria and we have linked at the end
later on this, you will note many things having like the Dun
& Bradstreet number, some antidisclosure of lobbying
forms, other things that will apply as well.
So be sure to look through that pretty carefully so that you can
meet those criteria. And then and then of course
there's the OneCPD+ NOFA that has lots of important
information. We won't go over it all today,
so please be sure to read it very carefully, but here are
some reading factors. >> So you mentioned at the end
rating factors, so can you elaborate on that?
Is that how the potential applicants will be assessed, or
what actually is a rating factor?
>> The rating factor is also called selection criteria at
times. Or those factors that are
evaluated looking objectively and solely at the response
written by the applicant to those factors that are printed
into the NOFA. And there are points associated,
which again are indicated in the NOFA with each of these
criteria. And it directs you what you need
to write to. So the first of those is
organizational capacity and key personnel, and that is really
means of evaluating the breadth and the depth of your
organization and your pool of technical assistance providers
or individuals who will actually do the work of technical
assistance. So that we ask for a few things.
We will look at actually hard -- if you have had contracts with
hud before or cooperative agreements and get some input
from contract officers or something called the government
technical manager and representative.
To see how that past performance was.
For those that haven't contracted or had an agreement
with hud, you are to provide some references.
In addition, you'll see that there's requests about your
recent engagements. That is work that you have done
similar to that described in the NOFA.
Don't tell us about work where you have actually, you know,
gone and operated a housing -- a clinic in housing program.
So it needs to be related. And then lastly of this section
is the issue of key personnel. And there've been some questions
we'll address later but in a nut shell we are asking for
applicants to describe the top 25 key personnel who are going
to be doing the activities of technical assistance under
cooperative agreement that's to be awarded.
>> Okay. >> Then there's the approach
where we ask some questions and look to how the applicant would
manage the cooperative agreement, both the internal
management and externally with other TA providers or management
of consultants that they might be using.
Policy priorities, outcomes, tell us how you would measure
your TA accomplishments. And then also, and this is
really new and I think very innovative.
I wasn't in the office at the time, so it has nothing to do
with me, but staff came up with some brilliant scenarios, where
they're describing a community or a state program.
There are three listed, and applicants can choose for that
scenario they'd like to write to what do they see as the issues,
what's the TA that they're going to provide, what's the to frame,
who's involved, and a variety of things.
That's going to be rated as well.
And then lastly, there is as all hud programs of some questions
about evaluation and performance management.
>> Okay. >> All right.
Thank you for that. That's very helpful.
Right now we want to shift focus a little bit and get to the bulk
of this webcast, which you really want to convey, and
that's to provide an opportunity to answer questions that we have
received. And so right now we are going to
answer some questions related to eligibility.
As we go throughout our question and answer segment, most of the
questions are aligned under our rating factors, so just as you
process it, that might help you as you hear the questions as
well as the responses. One question an applicant sent
us, can an organization apply as both an applicant and a
subcontractor, and I'll direct that to Lauren.
>> Okay and this is different this year.
We are not permitting -- an organization may not apply as
both an applicant and be listed as a subcontractor under another
applicant's application. It is possible after the
competition, if they were not selected, they could sort of go
in and join up with an applicant that was successful under
another application. >> I see.
>> Still may be work involved for them.
>> And I think the next question follows in the same vein is can
a subcontractor be a subcontractor for more than one
firm? >> Yes.
That is perfectly fine. That's not limited at all.
>> Okay. All right.
Well, that's very helpful. And the last question under the
segment of eligibility is are state housing agencies as well
as state mortgage agencies eligible to apply for this
particular program? >> They would be eligible
provided they meet the basic eligibility requirements that
are spelled out in the NOFA. That means a state or unit of
local government or nonprofit agency, a public agency, or
private nonprofit. So they have to meet those
criteria. >> Okay.
>> And I would like Sarah to elaborate also if you wanted to
chime in since you coordinate with housing.
>> We're inside. It's spelled out in the NOFA who
is eligible. If you have any questions
specific to your situation, please let us know.
I think something to keep in mind though is that we work
nationally. So we are looking for applicants
who can provide TA capacity building anywhere in the
country. So it's fine to apply as a state
housing finance agency or mortgage agency, but just be
aware that you will be asked to develop TA that's outside of
your particular state. >> Okay.
>> That's very key I think for our applicants.
And moving focus also, we're going to go into some questions
and answers that are under the first rating factor now, and
that's organizational capacity and key personnel and I'll
direct some of those to Lauren and of course Sarah will chime
in also. Our first question that someone
some submitted is are we limited to describing 25 key personnel?
I'll stop there because the second half of the question is a
little bit longer. >> Okay.
Well, the NOFA does say that you describe the skills and
expertise of the 25 key personnel with whom you have
agreements that you'll be using for the direct TA work, and
again it's to show the capacity and breadth of the personnel.
>> Okay. >> And so the second half, thank
you for that. Is a little bit more complex.
It's can we include a matrix and a supplemental form of that or
section that lists additional staff as well as subcontractors,
consultants, and their experience?
>> You may include it. We won't look at it.
And what I mean by that is that supplementals, you know, any
supplemental material that you provide won't be considered in
the evaluation of the application, so there's two, two
keys to that question. One is additional staff and we
really are asking for the 25. However, you know, there may be
places in responding to recent engagements if you use a
different staff to name some, just talk generally about the
cadre of staff that you have. The matrix piece, those who
applied last year, you probably remember completed very complex
but you needed a microscope to review so we are not using that
matrix this year. If you'd like to present some
information as part of the narrative within the 45 pages of
your application, you may do so. Any information there will be
part of for each individual of 100 words that we ask to
describe. >> Okay.
>> That's very helpful. I'm sure our applicants from
last year are happy to hear that matrix is not included.
And so another question along that same line of key personnel
is the person submitted the NOFA indicates that we are to list
individuals with who we have existing agreements.
Do we need to include agreements or signature pages in the
application? Is that necessary?
>> No and no. Those aren't to be provided.
We do ask for existing agreements, consultants or
subcontractors you already have working with you, and it should
be available if ever requested or on site visits and the sort.
But no, we don't need that in the application.
>> Okay. So that's good to hear.
All right, moving right along, also with the rating factor one,
organizational capacity and key personnel, now I'll kind of
direct some of these questions to Sarah.
The question -- >> You don't have to.
>> [Laughter] Okay.
The question is, can an applicant specify which
geographical area that they want to work in?
>> No. As I mentioned before, we're
looking for folks that can deliver TA on a national basis.
We're federal, we work everywhere, Washington, Puerto
Rico, Florida, we need people who can work nationwide.
>> Okay, that's good to hear. >> You know, it strikes me that
state housing finance agency, state mortgage agency that can
only work in one state could certainly sign on as a
subcontractor to an applicant if they have great expertise in an
area and they would be in that available area but that would be
part of it. >> I mean, I think that having
geographic, you know, expertise or knowledge about a particular
area of the country would be useful to have it in your subs
or for a subcontractor to be able to do that.
That's a very good point. Thank you, Lauren.
>> A question also in line with the geographic location is
should an applicant specify which subject area or program
that they have a preference in working in?
Is that something just -- >> They -- so, that's a tough
question. The short answer is no, an
applicant should not say I will only work on the CDBG program or
I will only work on section 8 program or something like that.
I can only do housing counseling.
That's because, you know, like I said earlier, we don't know what
kind of needs are going to come up, and we need people that can
do a variety of things. That's not to say that the
subcontractors couldn't be very specialized, but as a matter of
fact, we will in some cases want very specialized subs to help
on, on projects. But I think the way that we are
assessing your expertise and the specific topics that you can
provide TA on is through your explanation of the rating
factors. So rating factor 1 talks about,
you know, organizational capacity and key personnel.
We'll be able to see where you have expertise.
Another place is in rating factor 2 when you respond to one
of the scenarios, that gives us an idea of, oh, they chose to
respond to the scenario about homelessness.
They must really get homelessness.
That's not to say yore -- you're going to be limited to
homelessness but that's where hud gets a feeling for where
you're an expert. >> Okay.
Well that's helpful. Very helpful.
Also we're continuing in the same line of questions centered
around rating factor 1, organizational capacity and key
personnel. And we're going to get into some
more very interesting questions. This question we have is the
NOFA indicates that the award has to provide technical
assistance or capacity building to either our home program or
our program grantees must have at least one certified home
program specialist who passed the training exam with a score
of 80 or higher. So the question is are all
applicants expected to list certified home specialists on
their list of 25 key personnel? Lauren, do you want to touch on
that? >> Yes.
We wouldn't expect every applicant to be able to speak to
that or necessarily to be able to have that program specialist
or any specific subject matter because again there will be a
range of activities and specialists among different
applicants. The point here being that the
NOFA is very specific. However, that if you'd like to
do that work, there is a requirement that individual be
certified a home specialist and have to do fairly well on the
exam as well in order to provide home or CHDO specialists.
>> We should describe two recent engagements with technical
assisting activities. Which type of activities should
be -- we describe? Lauren? >> That would be dependent on
the applicant's area of expertise, the type of work they
have. Some are specialists in certain
areas. I think with regard to direct
TA, do we have to do direct TA, do we have to direct the right
to products, and the answer is no.
If you've done multiple things you may certainly describe
engagements in some -- two areas.
It's also possible one engagement might've involved
more than one type of TA but again that is at the discretion
of the applicant. >> So I think if I'm
understanding correctly, the important piece is describing
recent engagets is -- engagements related to TA.
>> That is helpful. Now we are going to answer?
H some questions under second rating factor or different
segment and these fall under soundness of approach as well as
they tie into lot of budget area questions.
So the first that was submitted was does an application for this
NOFA consist of a fully realized project or proposal with the
budget of at least $750,000? Lauren or Sarah do you want to
touch on that? >> I will say it's not a fully
realized budget. The minimum reward is $750,000.
The applicant must apply for at least that.
Lauren, I will let you go into more on what costs you might
want to mention. Like in a project with task one,
task two, and it's very specific and you can say yes, I know how
much it's going to cost, you are not going to know what kind of
engagements we are going to ask you to do so it would be
impossible to answer you know how many areas would involve
this specific task. I do want to reiterate again, no
fees, no profits can be included.
>> Do you want to -- >> Sure.
The reason that we're not asking for a full budget is again that
since your tasks will be assigned as you go and the
nature of the work you are going to do, the locations, the time,
the duration, isn't really determined at the time of
application. So we know it's not possible for
you to put together a full budget.
I have a couple of points I want to emphasize.
One is however you are asked on the SF 424 to indicate what the
total budget that you're requesting is.
It should be at least $750,000. And also in your application
summary. And in addition we do ask for
some information and each applicant is to provide -- the
NOFA says to provide information on fixed costs, if that's not
the exact language, that's the concept.
Of course, they do not change during the course of the award.
And the example given is that of an indirect cost rate, an
indirect cost. We've gotten a lot of questions
on that. I thought I would bring that up
while we're in the budget section.
We recognize that indirect costs can change.
You apply to cognizant agencies and may get a new approved rate,
a provisional rate so from year to year, they may change but
they don't change based on the type of task that you're doing,
the type of work you're doing, such as mileage.
So that's what we mean by that. You can still -- we still like
your indirect cost rate or other costs that may not changed based
on the award. >> Okay.
So you both highlighted that an applicant, a potential applicant
may not be able to able to determine the cost occurred
because of the demand response cooperative agreement dynamic,
so this question ties into that. Why should the budget only
include stagnant or nonchanging costs.
And I think you touched on it, but it bears repeating.
>> Sure. Lauren, do you want -- do you
want to speak to that? >> The cost I was describing was
stagnant or indirect cost. So again because you can't put
together a full budget. The way the process works, is
that as an applicant is, scores high and might be awarded a
cooperative agreement, then based upon the breadth and
expertise and what's been proposed in the budget
requested, there's a negotiation with hud where sort of a budget
assignment by hud and at that point, the budget level is, you
know, determined and the -- all the budget forms that you're
accustomed to, all the information will be requested at
that time. >> Okay.
>> Okay, thank you for that. We are going to continue with
questions on the same vein of soundness of approach as well as
budget, so the question is, can a fee or profit for applications
be included in the budget? >> No.
>> I think I said that a number of times but just so we're
clear. The answer is no.
>> The seems like the common theme is the applicants are very
concerned -- well, not concerned, the budget is a
significant component, so I'm glad that we're repeating.
>> All these questions about money.
>> Understandably. The next question that we have
is as you mentioned, is SF 424 CDW so was this not required
last year? And you mentioned that.
And the question leads to, if we only have to provide information
or costs that don't change, why or what should we complete in
this SF 424 CDW? >> Good news.
We have decided that this form is not needed.
It was listed in the check list, but we've determined that the
form of is not needed. Therefore, it's not required.
But again, just to reiterate a final time, we do ask that each
applicant in the format that they choose present information
on those costs. That won't change based on tasks
such as indirect rates. >> That's wonderful news I'm
sure for -- wonderful Newseum -- news I'm sure.
>> Just to make sure we are on the same page we are going to
answer questions that fall under soundness of approach and this
actually is a question I am sure we would like to talk on,
scenario component and Sarah touched on it earlier but the
question is, scenario two on page 18 of the NOFA, it provides
a number for the county point in time count that do not add up
correctly, and so the question is, please clarify whether this
is a typographical error or is this something we need to have
the wrong numbers added up. >> I will let Sarah answer.
>> So you should respond to the scenario exactly as written.
The reason we've included these this year is to provide sort of
a, a real world example of the type of TA you might -- you
know, the type of TA situation you might be placed in and we
want to know how you would respond.
So just respond exactly as written in the real world
numbers don't add up, so so handle it that way.
And if you wouldn't mind, just like to clarify that.
We've provided three scenarios. We ask that you only respond to
one of them. You can choose any of the three.
It doesn't mean you're going to be -- you're going to be locked
into the kind of TA described in the sir -- scenario.
If you respond to more than one scenario we will only read and
score one scenario. >> Just one scenario.
>> So you answered our next question which is can applicants
respond to more than one. >> If I could, just offer a
suggestion. I think reading both the NOFA
but also the scenarios very carefully is really important.
>> Definitely. We want to pause and thank you
all for listening to this webcast.
We've presented a plethora of information, so we just want you
all to process it, digest it, but also as you mentioned in the
introduction, I'm sure this will only evoke more questions, so
we've provided resources in a format that will be very
helpful. You can just click on the
hyperlinks and be directed directly there.
The first is grants.gov and that's very imperative because
if there are any updates, you can sign up to receive
notifications directly to your e-mail.
So we highly recommend that that's your first line of
getting further clarification on some of the questions.
Also, our second is to download our hud, our department's NOFA
policy, and requirements section.
That might be really helpful if you have some very specific
questions that we didn't have the opportunity to answer.
We would highly recommend you be directed there.
As well as the question and answers from the prior webcast
as well as at the conclusion of today you can go on the link
that we provide and you can download that.
So just refer back to as a resource for you, and in
closing, we would recommend you go to our web site where we have
a grants portal and the hyperlink you see there is a
great resource to answer some questions.
Again, we thank you, we really appreciate you tuning in and
again as I mentioned, I'm sure this will only stem many more
questions, and so when you have those questions, I would direct
you to Lauren dee. She would be more than happy to
assist you. Her e-mail is provide.
It bears repeating. Her e-mail address is
Lauren.S.D@hud.gov deputy director of our technical
assistance division. We thank you, Sarah, thank you
both for just your great contribution.
>> Let me just mention one last thing, which is the timing.
We won't -- we are preparing a comprehensive list not only of
these questions and answers but some additional that have come
in that maybe were rather esoteric or similar to ones
asked so we're preparing a more comprehensive list and that and
these questions will be posted but will probably be a couple of
days before they're actually up. So don't get off the phone and
look for that right away. Just give us a little time and
actually, you know, we could, we'll put it in prominent place.
>> All right. Well thank you very much.
Thank you for joining. Appreciate it.
>> Thank you.