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It's the creative solutions that come from a completely fresh perspective,
a completely blank sheet of paper,
that ultimately achieve recognition by all.
There is no better practitioner of this approach than my guest today.
I'm delighted to welcome Sir John Hegarty,
founder and Global Creative Chairman of BBH,
to the Blank Sheet Project.
Sir John, welcome to your own agency.
May I call you John for old time's sake?
Please do.
What do you think, because I know you still are a practitioner...
What do you think when confronted with a blank sheet of paper?
Well, I think...
I love the excitement of a blank sheet of paper.
That has always driven me,
but what I actually think
when I'm confronted with that brief
and that possibility of doing something, I think,
"This could make me and the client famous."
In our industry,
which is probably the most creative industry you can be in,
you have to come in every day and have a new idea.
And inspiration is everywhere.
Look at it. Pick it up.
Read books. Go to shows.
Read magazines. Read stuff that you're not supposed to read.
Read business magazines. It will be interesting.
You'll get a point of view. Go to galleries. Be aware.
And if you do that, there's a chance you'll stay connected.
One thing that... I'm going to say this...
I think it really disappoints me
when I...
I go and look around, and they're all watching YouTube.
And I think, why are you watching YouTube?
- What's the point? - It's been done.
If you're a great creative person, you're a cipher.
You take in things and you re-present them.
That's what great creative people do.
The people who succeed in advertising are entrepreneurial.
It doesn't matter what department they're in, they're entrepreneurial.
If they're not, then they're in the wrong industry.
Even our finance team are interesting to talk to.
They're entrepreneurial and think differently.
I always think what it was like when,
and I wasn't around then, I can assure you,
but in 1955, when commercial television started,
it was fundamental.
The impact that had on our industry!
So if you stand back, our industry is constantly evolving,
constantly changing.
But I think storytelling is fundamental
to the way we receive and take in information.
That remains the same.
Our opportunity today is to get it out in a thousand different ways.
We came up with this idea of all the sheep going in one direction
and a black sheep going in the opposite direction with,
"Black Levi's. When the world zigs, you zag."
Of course what was brilliant was
they looked at it
and asked, "But where is the picture of the jeans?"
We said, "Everyone knows what a pair of jeans looks like.
"What we're trying to establish is that they're black."
People look at, "How do you creative your own culture?"
And people try and invent it.
But, actually, sometimes it just happens to you
from the work you do, the way you are, the way you're being..."
And of course we then adopted the black sheep as our logo
because we felt ourselves
to be a company that when the world zigs, we like to zag.
That's what was lovely about that piece of work.
The Häagen-Dazs campaign,
which I think in 1991, launched the brand in the UK.
As well as the inspiration of the blank sheet of paper,
as I recall, there was a very, very tight deadline.
And it didn't have much spent on it,
but it created a disproportionate noise in the business.
I remember, actually, we had gone through about four campaigns
and the client was going, "Oh, I'm not sure. I'm not sure."
And one of the creative teams that we had working on it said,
"John, we've got to fire them. They will never buy anything great."
And we said, "No, we should go one more time.
"We should just listen to..."
And, actually, it was a great piece of intelligence...
Finally, it was Nick Kendall who said, "Look.
"There is something about this product.
"The way people talk about it,
"they talk about the sensuality of the product."
And literally on saying that, Nick opened a door,
and we thought, "Wow.
"Nobody has talked about ice cream like this before.
"We're not going to talk about it as an ice cream with ingredients...
"We're going to talk about it as a sensual pleasure."
And in doing that,
we immediately put this product onto its own playing field,
a playing field which nobody else was on.
And it's a great lesson -
in whatever you're doing, create your own playing field.
Our industry is remarkable.
I can't think of any other industry in the world
that thinks it can succeed by making a product worse.
And our product has got worse. That's not an opinion. That's a fact.
So no other industry.
Audi would not say, "We can sell more cars
"if we actually make them slightly worse."
No restaurant would say, "I'm going to make a slightly worse meal."
No clothing manufacturer would say,
"I'm going to make a slightly worse jacket, and I'll sell more."
Our industry is actually making the worst product
and believes it will be more successful.
I'd like somebody to explain where that comes from.
Do you think clients understand, if you like,
sort of, both the tyranny and the inspiration
of the blank sheet of paper?
Well, I've always thought clients wanted it to be a science.
They're passionate.
If only this business that they're in could be scientific,
they would love it.
Because they add it all up, they do the sums,
and they go, "Look, that's it.
"I've done the research. I've done the strategy.
"I've checked everything as I've gone along..."
And it's almost as though
they're producing a cure for cancer or something.
The way they approach it is almost like that.
And of course what we do -
salesmanship is an art, and it always will be an art.
And it goes against what they want it to be.
There was a time, again, back in the day,
when advertising very much led the multi-communications process,
and other disciplines fell in behind it -
PR, direct marketing and sales promotion, and so on.
Do we find ourselves in a different position now
where all the disciplines have more equality or are more equal
in terms of delivering the ultimate result for the client?
Yeah, I think what's happened is that we see a kind of...
..an elevation of this word, "collaboration".
It's a wonderful word. It's absolutely marvellous.
And aren't we all pleased we're all collaborating?
But it rapidly descends into consensus.
And that's the problem with collaboration,
and of course we've always collaborated.
I mean, you know, when you wrote a script,
you then spoke to a director,
you spoke to a set designer, you spoke to somebody else,
and an editor, music...
And so you collaborated on making that.
I think there's a view today
that anybody can have a great idea.
I mean, it's like crowdsourcing - yeah, wonderful.
Absolutely great.
I mean, of course anybody can have an idea,
and I always quote here.
There's a wonderful quote by, I think, Marcel Duchamp who says,
"We're all artists. It's just that some of us shouldn't exhibit."
And, you know, great creative work
is, sort of, the result
of somebody's individual passion to drive something through,
and that isn't about collaboration.
That's about having a vision, a vision to do something really great,
and then bring people with you.
Yes, absolutely.
And, again, in the new world we find ourselves in,
do you think ad agencies, in particular,
have responded quickly enough to the changes in consumer behaviour?
I think I go back to my point that what we're not doing today
is coming up with the kind of ideas that are game-changing,
that change the fortunes of brands.
Our audience, the people we're talking to...
Their appreciation of what we do has consistently gone down since 1990,
where it stood at about 36% - they loved what we did.
It's now less than 10%.
So how we can justify that seems to be amazing.
And our industry has really got to look at,
what are we doing about that?
Nobody's talking about it.
I think you were reported as saying
you'll carry on working for some time to come.
- But... - Much to the dismay of my partners.
Assuming there is a legacy here, Sir John,
what would you like it to be, apart from fine wine?
It will be the wine, actually. That's it.
The work. The work is the legacy.
I always say, actually,
that we always talk about the work, the work, the work.
And what's fortunate for BBH, in a way,
is our business model only succeeds, our business model...
Only six offices around the world,
we probably charge more than other agencies,
we give clients things that are difficult to buy,
we disagree with them all the time, give them a hard time...
They must look at it and go, "Why on earth am I at BBH? What's the point?"
The only point is, the work is great.
So our business model only succeeds if we go on doing great work,
so the work is the legacy.
If we don't go on doing great work, all of this collapses.
Do you think agencies in general
are good at surviving the retirement of their founders?
Do you think that's possible or probable?
I think that's a fantastic question.
John Bartle, funnily enough, always said our agency is like rock bands -
they have a period of time, and then that's it.
Of course with a rock band -
they can always come back and play, as I've said before, their old songs.
We can't do that.
I'm not sure I absolutely agree with that.
I think we can go beyond the original founders.
I mean, the idea is to, sort of,
institute some ownership structure,
or the way we're owned,
or the terms under which we're owned,
that will encourage creativity.
Would you ever retire?
No, I loathe the word, "retirement".
It assumes that that's it now. You've given up.
You're in that waiting room. No, life is too interesting.
I mean, I'm a great believer - it sounds rather corny, actually -
in that great line that we came up with for Johnny Walker,
which is, "Keep Walking".
You never stop.
Very good.
And I know you've started a fantastic wine business.
I don't know what the financials are, but the wine is fantastic.
The financials are disastrous.
Whatever you do... I'm addressing the camera now...
Whatever you do, please do start your own brand,
because it's really interesting.
But don't make it a vineyard. You'll lose a fortune.
Do you foresee another challenge,
another blank sheet of paper for Sir John Hegarty in the future?
Or is the wine and the agency enough?
Oh, definitely. Definitely.
People always ask, "Do you have a five-year plan?"
And I go, "No, I have a five-minute plan."
Because I don't know what's around the corner.
But, certainly, I love...
It's partly how you engage with life.
You're doing stuff. You're influencing things.
You're engaging with other people.
Ideas, thoughts, whatever it is.
Yes, it's too...
It's too exciting not to.
On behalf of Arjo Wiggins and D&AD,
Sir John, I'd like to thank you an awful lot for the interview.
- Thank you, too. - And best wishes for the future.
- And best of luck with D&AD. - Thank you very much indeed. Thanks. �